View Full Version : Unbelievable/Netflix...
...I couldn’t see a thread so I’m not sure that anyone is watching this...I’ve only watched the first episode on a recommendation from someone...and it’s completely absorbing and also based on a true story...
...Anyways, I’m making a thread if there are any more watchers...
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Marsh.
01-12-2019, 07:04 PM
What's it about? :think:
What's it about? :think:
...it’s really difficult actually, to find a synopsis from any of the usual TV/film watch/review sites, I’m not sure why...here’s a media article/synopsis, Marsh...
One of the latest shows to arrive on Netflix, a harrowing mini-series called Unbelievable, is a must-watch.
Based on the Pulitzer-Prize winning article An Unbelievable Story of Rape, Unbelievable tells the true story of an 18-year-old woman who reported a rape, but was met by a wave of disbelief from police and loved ones.
The official synopsis reads: “After a young woman is accused of lying about rape, two female detectives investigate a spate of eerily similar attacks.”
In the era of #MeToo and heightened discussions over how matters of rape and sexual assault are handled by the law and wider society, this series likely to ignite plenty of conversation.
Unbelievable is inspired by the true story of Marie, an 18-year old woman who in 2008 reported that she’d been bound by her own shoelaces and raped by a masked man at knifepoint.
As outlined in the hard-hitting article on The Marshall Project, the real-life Marie was a foster child who had been passed from various foster homes her entire life, having never been successfully adopted.
Marie then settled in Washington State with Shannon McQuery and her husband, before then moving in with Penny Cunningham, who worked as a children’s advocate in Lynnwood, Washington.
When she was 18, Marie moved into subsidised housing and lived alone. One night in Lynnwood, Marie was talking to her ex-boyfriend on the phone before going to sleep. When she woke up, she found a man had broken into her apartment and was standing over her with a knife. He then tied her up and proceeded to rape her for hours.
After cutting herself free, Marie called her former foster mother, Peggy, to explain what had happened. She also reported it to the police, who arrived at the scene and took official statements.
However, Shannon and Peggy began to think Marie was lying, describing her behaviour after the assault as “disorientating” and bizarre. The police brought Marie in again for further questioning, and she was coerced into retracting her statement, saying she made it up due to “stress.” She was charged with falsifying a police report and charged $500 for court services. Years later, in 2011, two female detectives called Stacy Galbraith and Edna Hendershot began to notice similarities between a series of other rapes, discovering that a serial rapist was breaking into homes and sexually assaulting women before taking photographs of his victims and forcing them to shower to remove evidence of his crimes.
Armed with brand new evidence, they eventually caught the rapist.
In December 2011, army veteran Marc O’Leary was found guilty of 28 counts of rape in Colorado to 327.5 years in prison.
...I watched episode 2 last night and it really is an engrossing and intense watch...it covers so much about the (..still..)...difficulties in reporting rape ..how a female can ‘continue to be raped several times’ after the actual assault has taken place...and sadly, how easy it can be just to say..’yeah, it didn’t happen’...when it becomes obvious those are the words that are wanted...and then the nightmare will end...
Jessica.
02-12-2019, 07:29 AM
I'll give it a go
Niamh.
07-01-2020, 09:26 AM
5 episodes into this, it is gripping and terrifying but not surprising at the same time. I'm glad her story is being told though, these conversations need to be had
...yeah, these conversations do have to be had because of how readily ‘rape is disbelieved’, yet ‘there was no rape’ is believed...
...to be choose being cast out and isolated by so many of her friendship groups and the society around her, rather than continue her ordeal of truth...
...I can’t recall atm, what the timelines of episodes are...(..but I think the story of Lilly will have been told...?...that terror she faced that she jumped to the concrete below her...(...which she may never have survived..)...to avoid the rapist...
Shaun
08-01-2020, 08:11 AM
The best show I watched last year. Loved Merritt Wever from her Nurse Jackie days but she was so warm and compassionate here, and Collette is always great.
Niamh.
08-01-2020, 08:54 AM
Finished it last night
Felt so so sorry for Marie, 3 years of being painted as a liar and dropped by friends and "family" and still trying to deal with the trauma of being raped on top of all that.
What struck me in the earlier episodes when the two male cops "got her to admit she was lying" was the first conversation they had outside the interrogation room about how some boys life was almost ruined by a girl crying rape and how awful it was and he sued her and rightly so etc. It just reminded me of so many times I've heard similar about rape cases and rape cases where it wasn't even "proven" that the girl was lying, they just didn't have enough evidence to convict the guy (or they did imo but he was let off anyway) Like people (more especially men) really want to not believe women who say they were raped and how the opinion seems to be that "false rape accusations" is so much worse than rape. It feels like on some level alot of men think unless the women is beaten to a pulp as well as raped then she probably invited it in some way. And I'm sorry if that comes across as sexist or a massive generalisation but that is what it feels like.
The contrast then to when we see the second victim and the female detective, how she's spoken to and treated with care, warmth and empathy rather than hostility, disbelief and abruptness. How both the female detectives are so angry about what happened to these women and how much they want to catch this guy.
I thought the phone call at the end from Marie to karen Duvall was really nice. And I liked how the original detective got his comeuppance. I was hoping to see her horrible Foster mother finding out but maybe they lost contact due to her unsupportiveness through out?
Also, I wonder if they ever did get into the rapists files that they were struggling with cracking?
Anyway, absolutely great series, disturbing and terrifying both because of what the rapist did to these women but also because of what the Police, those who were supposed to be on Maries side did to her. But I'm glad this show was made, maybe some people who always doubt the victim in crimes like this may get another insight by watching......but lbr they probably won't even watch it
Niamh.
08-01-2020, 09:37 AM
Just been looking up the real "characters" this bit is interesting about the Police department who were in charge of Maries case :
Armstrong and Miller's report tells how between 2008 and 2012, the Lynnwood police department labeled 21.3 percent of their rape reports as unfounded, which was five times the national average.
Since Marie's vindication, the department underwent both external and internal reviews and has changed policies on how sexual assault reports are handled in hopes of preventing this scenario from ever happening again.
https://www.insider.com/netflix-unbelievable-where-everyone-ended-up-2019-9#the-lynnwood-detectives-pruitt-and-parker-are-jerry-rittgarn-and-sgt-jeffrey-mason-in-real-life-6
Cherie
08-01-2020, 10:13 AM
started this last night, did you say you watched 5 eps off the bat Neem? heavy stuff
Niamh.
08-01-2020, 10:15 AM
started this last night, did you say you watched 5 eps off the bat Neem? heavy stuff
Yeah, 5 Monday night and the final 3 last night
Finished it last night
Felt so so sorry for Marie, 3 years of being painted as a liar and dropped by friends and "family" and still trying to deal with the trauma of being raped on top of all that.
What struck me in the earlier episodes when the two male cops "got her to admit she was lying" was the first conversation they had outside the interrogation room about how some boys life was almost ruined by a girl crying rape and how awful it was and he sued her and rightly so etc. It just reminded me of so many times I've heard similar about rape cases and rape cases where it wasn't even "proven" that the girl was lying, they just didn't have enough evidence to convict the guy (or they did imo but he was let off anyway) Like people (more especially men) really want to not believe women who say they were raped and how the opinion seems to be that "false rape accusations" is so much worse than rape. It feels like on some level alot of men think unless the women is beaten to a pulp as well as raped then she probably invited it in some way. And I'm sorry if that comes across as sexist or a massive generalisation but that is what it feels like.
The contrast then to when we see the second victim and the female detective, how she's spoken to and treated with care, warmth and empathy rather than hostility, disbelief and abruptness. How both the female detectives are so angry about what happened to these women and how much they want to catch this guy.
I thought the phone call at the end from Marie to karen Duvall was really nice. And I liked how the original detective got his comeuppance. I was hoping to see her horrible Foster mother finding out but maybe they lost contact due to her unsupportiveness through out?
Also, I wonder if they ever did get into the rapists files that they were struggling with cracking?
Anyway, absolutely great series, disturbing and terrifying both because of what the rapist did to these women but also because of what the Police, those who were supposed to be on Maries side did to her. But I'm glad this show was made, maybe some people who always doubt the victim in crimes like this may get another insight by watching......but lbr they probably won't even watch it
...she was fairly much cast out by the society around her...but she stole chose that at the time, rather than continue with what she was being out through...it was all like a continuation of her rape ordeal..it was just heartbreaking to watch...and terrifying g at the speed in which it was all ‘erased’ once she said that it never happened...for the first time in the case, there seemed an enthusiasm..:sad:...and to think that this would have been ‘buried by the system’ forever, had the rapist not taken his videos and ‘trophies’...and how rare must that be, for a rapist to do that...to have those things, which in the end was the only evidence to some of his victims...
...just mentioning her ‘horrible foster mother..’... how just because she danced on a table in a slightly provocative way at a picnic...she was caused to doubt her completely....?...that made me so sad...:sad:...if the female detectives hadn’t been part of the case, I doubt the truth would have come to light...
Tom4784
08-01-2020, 01:51 PM
I'll watch this at some point. The story's important and I'll watch anything that Toni Colette appears in.
...it is an important story for males and females to watch...the person who told me that I had to watch it was a Male and I hope it’s something that has both genders discussing these things more...
Niamh.
08-01-2020, 01:54 PM
...she was fairly much cast out by the society around her...but she stole chose that at the time, rather than continue with what she was being out through...it was all like a continuation of her rape ordeal..it was just heartbreaking to watch...and terrifying g at the speed in which it was all ‘erased’ once she said that it never happened...for the first time in the case, there seemed an enthusiasm..:sad:...and to think that this would have been ‘buried by the system’ forever, had the rapist not taken his videos and ‘trophies’...and how rare must that be, for a rapist to do that...to have those things, which in the end was the only evidence to some of his victims...
...just mentioning her ‘horrible foster mother..’... how just because she danced on a table in a slightly provocative way at a picnic...she was caused to doubt her completely....?...that made me so sad...:sad:...if the female detectives hadn’t been part of the case, I doubt the truth would have come to light...
I actually looked up the real life characters. Apparently Marie is still in contact with both foster parents and has forgiven them. The really horrible one apologised but in a backhanded kind of a way from what I've read (quotes of hers) :
"She needs to realize at some point, and I think she does now, that-- OK, I hate to say this. But you know, I mean-- OK, now this is going to sound really bad, like I'm blaming the victim. But some of the way that she was acting was part of the reason why it had the outcome that it did. And I am not the only person that didn't believe her."
The other one at least apologised properly :
"I didn't want to say I was sorry over the phone, that I wanted to do it in person. So she came up. And we went for a walk. And I just took her shoulders, and I said, I want to look in your eyes and tell you from the bottom of my heart, I am so sorry I doubted you and I didn't believe you and we didn't support you. And she said that was OK, gave me a big hug. And I was just so shocked that she would be willing to forgive me for that because it was such a huge thing. And it went on for so long."
And also this is her take on the part where she saw the similar rape story on the news :
"Right away, I thought, I'm wrong. It actually happened. She was raped because this is too similar. So I immediately went in and called the Kirkland Police Department and asked to speak to the lead detective on the rape case. And I explained the whole situation about what had happened to Marie and that the Lynnwood police didn't believe her."
Unfortunately, as depicted in Unbelievable, Shannon's tip to the Kirkland police ended up going nowhere because of Lynnwood PD's insistence that Marie had falsely reported and the case was closed. "I was upset," Shannon recalled. "I thought there should have been more investigation, that it was just too similar." She tried to persuade Marie to go to the police a second time, but Marie was already embroiled in false reporting charges and was "terrified" of talking to the police again.
https://screenrant.com/unbelievable-true-story-foster-mothers-reaction-colleen-judith/
(Shannon was Coleen in the TV Show)
And yeah, I would say there are countless rapes where the victim is not believed because people don't want to believe it
I actually looked up the real life characters. Apparently Marie is still in contact with both foster parents and has forgiven them. The really horrible one apologised but in a backhanded kind of a way from what I've read (quotes of hers) :
"She needs to realize at some point, and I think she does now, that-- OK, I hate to say this. But you know, I mean-- OK, now this is going to sound really bad, like I'm blaming the victim. But some of the way that she was acting was part of the reason why it had the outcome that it did. And I am not the only person that didn't believe her."
The other one at least apologised properly :
"I didn't want to say I was sorry over the phone, that I wanted to do it in person. So she came up. And we went for a walk. And I just took her shoulders, and I said, I want to look in your eyes and tell you from the bottom of my heart, I am so sorry I doubted you and I didn't believe you and we didn't support you. And she said that was OK, gave me a big hug. And I was just so shocked that she would be willing to forgive me for that because it was such a huge thing. And it went on for so long."
And also this is her take on the part where she saw the similar rape story on the news :
"Right away, I thought, I'm wrong. It actually happened. She was raped because this is too similar. So I immediately went in and called the Kirkland Police Department and asked to speak to the lead detective on the rape case. And I explained the whole situation about what had happened to Marie and that the Lynnwood police didn't believe her."
Unfortunately, as depicted in Unbelievable, Shannon's tip to the Kirkland police ended up going nowhere because of Lynnwood PD's insistence that Marie had falsely reported and the case was closed. "I was upset," Shannon recalled. "I thought there should have been more investigation, that it was just too similar." She tried to persuade Marie to go to the police a second time, but Marie was already embroiled in false reporting charges and was "terrified" of talking to the police again.
https://screenrant.com/unbelievable-true-story-foster-mothers-reaction-colleen-judith/
(Shannon was Coleen in the TV Show)
And yeah, I would say there are countless rapes where the victim is not believed because people don't want to believe it
...it obviously didn’t touch on Marie’s story before her fostering ...but ‘specific promiscuous behaviour’ is not uncommon for girls, it’s how many childhood traumas can be manifested through adolescent years particularly...and yet her foster parents seemed to take these things as signs that she may not be being genuine...it was very odd...
Niamh.
08-01-2020, 02:08 PM
...it obviously didn’t touch on Marie’s story before her fostering ...but ‘specific promiscuous behaviour’ is not uncommon for girls, it’s how many childhood traumas can be manifested through adolescent years particularly...and yet her foster parents seemed to take these things as signs that she may not be being genuine...it was very odd...
I know and actually contacting the Police Officer and saying that to him too, talk about betrayal
I know and actually contacting the Police Officer and saying that to him too, talk about betrayal
...didn’t Marie have to cover some court costs originally...?..and she could have served a prison sentence as well...
Niamh.
08-01-2020, 02:21 PM
...didn’t Marie have to cover some court costs originally...?..and she could have served a prison sentence as well...
She had to pay a $500 fine which was returned to her after the case was solved and the realised she wasn't lying but she didn't accept it and ended up with a $150k instead
She had to pay a $500 fine which was returned to her after the case was solved and the realised she wasn't lying but she didn't accept it and ended up with a $150k instead
...I’m just reading some stuff now...she’s a long haul truck driver, she’s doing well...:lovedup:..
“He didn’t take my life away,” Marie told ProPublica earlier this month. “I don’t want to cower in the corner. I didn’t want it to ruin the rest of my life. I didn’t want to give him the satisfaction. I wasn’t going to let him destroy me.”...
....when you think that she was a child in care as well ...and we don’t know what the reasons for that were..?...an incredible lady, showing a staggering resilience...:love:..
Niamh.
08-01-2020, 02:47 PM
...I’m just reading some stuff now...she’s a long haul truck driver, she’s doing well...:lovedup:..
“He didn’t take my life away,” Marie told ProPublica earlier this month. “I don’t want to cower in the corner. I didn’t want it to ruin the rest of my life. I didn’t want to give him the satisfaction. I wasn’t going to let him destroy me.”...
....when you think that she was a child in care as well ...and we don’t know what the reasons for that were..?...an incredible lady, showing a staggering resilience...:love:..
When the cops were looking through her file they looked pretty disgusted and I think one of the mentioning "making her eat dog food" that's all that was said about why she was in care though.
That Podcast about might be worth a listen too if I can find it
When the cops were looking through her file they looked pretty disgusted and I think one of the mentioning "making her eat dog food" that's all that was said about why she was in care though.
That Podcast about might be worth a listen too if I can find it
..yeah, let me know if you find it...I’d like to listen...after watching this type of story, I always try to find out everything I can...Marie said that actually watching him him being arrested on the series, she felt a sense of closure that she hadn’t felt in the same way before...
Niamh.
08-01-2020, 03:00 PM
..yeah, let me know if you find it...I’d like to listen...after watching this type of story, I always try to find out everything I can...Marie said that actually watching him him being arrested on the series, she felt a sense of closure that she hadn’t felt in the same way before...
Yeah I can really imagine how that would happen, when she wasn't believed for so long to have a massive audience watch her treatment and vindication and I guess to see his other victims too and hear their stories
Yeah I can really imagine how that would happen, when she wasn't believed for so long to have a massive audience watch her treatment and vindication and I guess to see his other victims too and hear their stories
...when it all started to click together as the tapes and ‘souvenirs’ were found ...and it so easily may not have...I imagine she must have been overwhelmed, watching that...the emotion would have been incredible, I’m thinking...
Niamh.
08-01-2020, 03:11 PM
...when it all started to click together as the tapes and ‘souvenirs’ were found ...and it so easily may not have...I imagine she must have been overwhelmed, watching that...the emotion would have been incredible, I’m thinking...
Oh god yeah, it really must have been, I was feeling pretty emotional about it myself so I can only imagine how she must have felt :laugh:
Oh god yeah, it really must have been, I was feeling pretty emotional about it myself so I can only imagine how she must have felt :laugh:
...I just kept thinking, this is crazy ...if he hadn’t kept mementos and recorded the attacks, she would have gone through her whole life with no one knowing that she’d been raped by him...and how many attackers actually do that, not many...?...everything at the police station had been destroyed, there was no record of her rape anywhere...yeah, it was so emotional...emotional and terrifying and anger as well...
Niamh.
08-01-2020, 03:21 PM
...I just kept thinking, this is crazy ...if he hadn’t kept mementos and recorded the attacks, she would have gone through her whole life with no one knowing that she’d been raped by him...and how many attackers actually do that, not many...?...everything at the police station had been destroyed, there was no record of her rape anywhere...yeah, it was so emotional...emotional and terrifying and anger as well...
Yep and I bet there are lots of women who do go through life that way. I posted a link earlier about that Police station having something like 21% of all their sexual assault cases marked down as "unfounded" between 2008-2012, it was 5 times higher than the national average so.............. yeah probably a lot of unresolved Maries out there, that's really sad to think about
Yep and I bet there are lots of women who do go through life that way. I posted a link earlier about that Police station having something like 21% of all their sexual assault cases marked down as "unfounded" between 2008-2012, it was 5 times higher than the national average so.............. yeah probably a lot of unresolved Maries out there, that's really sad to think about
..that’s the thing, the whole point of interest of it is how everything came together in a way that is quite unusual...after many years, justice was served...but it wouldn’t be that story of interest if it wasn’t a rare situation...the ‘second rape’ by the system will have been far too much to bear for too many Marie’s, as you say...
Nicky91
17-01-2020, 02:10 PM
so far watched 4 episodes of this
quite good acting work in this
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