Lake District is apparently "not diverse enough"...

[Oliver_W]

Outrage as National Park boss ignites PC row after claiming the Lake District must 'change and diversify' because it is too heavily weighted toward 'white middle-class able-bodied people'
* Boss Richard Leafe said the site must change to merit continued public funding
* He said if parks are seen as exclusive to one group, they 'start to lose relevance'
* A report has said national parks are not doing enough to make people welcome
* Lake District National Park Authority reportedly facing High Court judicial review
* This is over its refusal to ban four-wheel drive vehicles from some of its fell trails
Full Story: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7834365/Lake-District-National-Park-boss-says-destinations-rugged-landscape-excludes-people.html

FFS leave it alone! Absolutely anyone can go to the Lake District, it's not like they have melanin barriers, how on earth can it be "weighted toward white people" ?

Able bodiedness I can kind of see, but going on leisurely hikes is more of an able bodied activity.

[arista]

How crazy
leave the place alone

[Scarlett.]

I mean, they're not wrong

[Marsh.]

going on leisurely hikes is more of an able bodied activity.

:facepalm:

[bots]

visitor figures don't lie.

We could have said trains, shops, toilets etc were for able bodied people only in the past, it doesn't make it right.

If the lake district is not attracting a diverse group of visitors then it should be looked at. Why isn't it. As a tourist destination, the more diverse it's visitors, the more visitors it attracts and therefore the more money it generates. Seems like a no brainer to me.

[smudgie]

Quaint villages, old fashioned shops, beautiful views.
Leave it well alone, it is what it’s popular for.
If you have an interest in a place you will visit, if not you go elsewhere.:shrug:

[Oliver_W]

visitor figures don't lie.

We could have said trains, shops, toilets etc were for able bodied people only in the past, it doesn't make it right.

If the lake district is not attracting a diverse group of visitors then it should be looked at. Why isn't it. As a tourist destination, the more diverse it's visitors, the more visitors it attracts and therefore the more money it generates. Seems like a no brainer to me.
Like I said, there's absolutely nothing stopping BAME people from taking a holiday there, so it's not something that needs to be "looked at".

As for accessibility, it's hilly countryside, not much can be done about that. Should they have miles of handrails?

[bots]

Like I said, there's absolutely nothing stopping BAME people from taking a holiday there, so it's not something that needs to be "looked at".

As for accessibility, it's hilly countryside, not much can be done about that. Should they have miles of handrails?

This is just such a wrong attitude. If people arent made to feel welcome, they wont come and as a public park that must be looked at and improved.

For a long, long time, I took no interest in whether things in life were accessible, then in my own field of business, I discovered how trivially easy it was to make things easy for those who faced challenges and the instant enormous benefit it brought to them. I believe we have a duty to put that right, and am now an active voice for it. I will tell you something else for nothing, I don't think anything I have done has been more rewarding either.

[Oliver_W]

This is just such a wrong attitude. If people arent made to feel welcome, they wont come and as a public park that must be looked at and improved.

For a long, long time, I took no interest in whether things in life were accessible, then in my own field of business, I discovered how trivially easy it was to make things easy for those who faced challenges and the instant enormous benefit it brought to them. I believe we have a duty to put that right, and am now an active voice for it. I will tell you something else for nothing, I don't think anything I have done has been more rewarding either.

How are people not being made to feel welcome?

[Oliver_W]

Id understand more if their entire point was that disabled people can't enjoy it as much as others, but why mention something as irrelevant as ethnicity? Maybe it's just a case of different people enjoying different things.

[arista]

1211287319426125824

[Twosugars]

How are people not being made to feel welcome?

Maybe it is hotbed of racism? :shrug: all those old white people....

I dont know, just throwing it out there for debate :)

[Cherie]

Maybe it is hotbed of racism? :shrug: all those old white people....

I dont know, just throwing it out there for debate :)

Have you ever been?

[Cherie]

You are white and old to a ten year old, are you racist?

[Oliver_W]

Maybe it is hotbed of racism? :shrug: all those old white people....

I dont know, just throwing it out there for debate :)

Interesting theory, but I'd err on the side of "no". It's not a random little hamlet in the middle of bumblefuk nowhere. It's a popular tourist area,and people who live and work in places like that protect its reputation.

Maybe it's just something to do with all the open bodies of water :joker:

[Cherie]

In answer to the question they probably could put in more accessible trails, not sure how you can encourage more young people or ethnicities as it’s personal choice what you do in your leisure time and some people just don’t like the countryside, or walking or fresh air, i guess they could do more in the way of advertising, never seen very much, but any time we have been it’s generally rammed especially Windermere

[Oliver_W]

You are white and old to a ten year old, are you racist?

The old people of today are the middle-aged of the nineties, to still perpetuate the myth of the "racist old people" is a bit disengenous.

[Tom4784]

visitor figures don't lie.

We could have said trains, shops, toilets etc were for able bodied people only in the past, it doesn't make it right.

If the lake district is not attracting a diverse group of visitors then it should be looked at. Why isn't it. As a tourist destination, the more diverse it's visitors, the more visitors it attracts and therefore the more money it generates. Seems like a no brainer to me.

Pretty much. There's no point leaving money on the table and if a business isn't willing to change with the times, it'll be doomed to be left in the past. Lake District's core demographic is a very finite audience because it relies on older generations and when those older generations come to an end, the businesses of Lake District are gonna find themselves in the hardest of times if they can't adapt.

[Twosugars]

You are white and old to a ten year old, are you racist?

Trust you to attack the poster not the post :laugh:

The thread is about lake district not me. Follow the rules :)

[Kizzy]

The old people of today are the middle-aged of the nineties, to still perpetuate the myth of the "racist old people" is a bit disengenous.

Thatchers youth... aging yuppies.
No they won't be racist at all :laugh:

There's an issue with gentrification in the lakes I remember that being seen as an issue on my last visit, lots of places stood empty as they were 2nd homes in the country.
It would be impossible to say how to make the lakes more attractive or appealing, it is in essence natural reletively unspoiled beauty.
Where possible accessibility should be a priority and funding could be made available for this.

The issue of vehicles needs addressing again, huge 4x4 s are not suitable for those roads and are a danger.

[Oliver_W]

Pretty much. There's no point leaving money on the table and if a business isn't willing to change with the times, it'll be doomed to be left in the past. Lake District's core demographic is a very finite audience because it relies on older generations and when those older generations come to an end, the businesses of Lake District are gonna find themselves in the hardest of times if they can't adapt.

Either that, or people will start to go as they gold older. We're not gonna run out of people whp enjoy walking in beautiful scenery any time soon.

[Marsh.]

Like I said, there's absolutely nothing stopping BAME people from taking a holiday there

There's no nuance with you is there?

Why am I picturing a gang of hooded kids with hammers and knives waiting outside for the poor lad being bullied telling him "we're not stopping you leaving the house. You can leave anytime!!".

[Crimson Dynamo]

:laugh2:

what ever will people think of next to justify a job

[Oliver_W]

There's no nuance with you is there?

Why am I picturing a gang of hooded kids with hammers and knives waiting outside for the poor lad being bullied telling him "we're not stopping you leaving the house. You can leave anytime!!".

That's a ridiculous comparison as the residents and business owners in the Lake District aren't hostile toward visitors.

[user104658]

What people are overlooking in their outrage over this, is that the Lakes receive public funding. Its not a private entity that operates on its own funds being "forced" to act a certain way "or get shut down".

People saying "no leave it alone!"... Well... Yes, that's exactly what's being said. They need to cater better to the needs of the overall public, or they will be "left alone" to do as they please. On their own dime with no public funding.

There's absolutely nothing unfair about this situation. It's actually pretty ridiculous to suggest that they should be able to ignore these issues and then say "BUT we still want funded as a national park obvz".

[Oliver_W]

Thatchers youth... aging yuppies.
No they won't be racist at all :laugh:

There's an issue with gentrification in the lakes I remember that being seen as an issue on my last visit, lots of places stood empty as they were 2nd homes in the country.
It would be impossible to say how to make the lakes more attractive or appealing, it is in essence natural reletively unspoiled beauty.
Where possible accessibility should be a priority and funding could be made available for this.

The issue of vehicles needs addressing again, huge 4x4 s are not suitable for those roads and are a danger.
How is gentrification an issue there? There's nothing wrong with having a holiday home,ours in Norfolk doesn't keep people away from Winterton :shrug:

[Crimson Dynamo]

Its a poor man's Scotland and absolutely chokka with Mountain Warehouse ramblers

give it a miss and drive another 150 miles North where you can have better scenery and not a soul in sight

[Twosugars]

What people are overlooking in their outrage over this, is that the Lakes receive public funding. Its not a private entity that operates on its own funds being "forced" to act a certain way "or get shut down".

People saying "no leave it alone!"... Well... Yes, that's exactly what's being said. They need to cater better to the needs of the overall public, or they will be "left alone" to do as they please. On their own dime with no public funding.

There's absolutely nothing unfair about this situation. It's actually pretty ridiculous to suggest that they should be able to ignore these issues and then say "BUT we still want funded as a national park obvz".

Good point

[Oliver_W]

What people are overlooking in their outrage over this, is that the Lakes receive public funding. Its not a private entity that operates on its own funds being "forced" to act a certain way "or get shut down".

People saying "no leave it alone!"... Well... Yes, that's exactly what's being said. They need to cater better to the needs of the overall public, or they will be "left alone" to do as they please. On their own dime with no public funding.

There's absolutely nothing unfair about this situation. It's actually pretty ridiculous to suggest that they should be able to ignore these issues and then say "BUT we still want funded as a national park obvz".
Outdoors activities are ethnically neutral, so I'm not really sure what they're expected to do to make it "more" appealing...

[Tom4784]

Either that, or people will start to go as they gold older. We're not gonna run out of people whp enjoy walking in beautiful scenery any time soon.

You've got to consider the fact that younger generations won't find value in the same things as older generations, plus you have to acknowledge the fact that holidays abroad are more accessible than ever. Why go to Lake District when you can go abroad and experience different cultures and a wider variety of things to do.

[Oliver_W]

You've got to consider the fact that younger generations won't find value in the same things as older generations, plus you have to acknowledge the fact that holidays abroad are more accessible than ever. Why go to Lake District when you can go abroad and experience different cultures and a wider variety of things to do.
Good point, but I guess the reasons for going to the Lake District are different to why you'd go to a hotter/colder/different cultured country. Plus, "staycations" are apparently on the rise, and who knows what effects Brexit will have, along with possible future changes to the flight industry with environmental stuff....

There's nothing that really needs to change, but maybe it needs more PR :joker:

[Cherie]

Trust you to attack the poster not the post :laugh:

The thread is about lake district not me. Follow the rules :)

You seem to think everyone white over 40 is a racist, that was the point YOU made about the thread, it’s not too much of a stretch to ask if you are racist yourself as your negative view of every white person seems to bear this out, you are happy enough to label people, I merely asked if you were

I haven’t broken any rules

[Cherie]

Thatchers youth... aging yuppies.
No they won't be racist at all :laugh:

There's an issue with gentrification in the lakes I remember that being seen as an issue on my last visit, lots of places stood empty as they were 2nd homes in the country.
It would be impossible to say how to make the lakes more attractive or appealing, it is in essence natural reletively unspoiled beauty.
Where possible accessibility should be a priority and funding could be made available for this.

The issue of vehicles needs addressing again, huge 4x4 s are not suitable for those roads and are a danger.

What about hotels, and other accommodation, if you need a home in the area to visit there, holidays would be doomed :laugh:

[Cherie]

Good point, but I guess the reasons for going to the Lake District are different to why you'd go to a hotter/colder/different cultured country. Plus, "staycations" are apparently on the rise, and who knows what effects Brexit will have, along with possible future changes to the flight industry with environmental stuff....

There's nothing that really needs to change, but maybe it needs more PR :joker:

They do need to advertise, that wouldn’t hurt

[bots]

People sneer when holiday firms or high street chains go out of business because they have not modernised and stayed in touch with what modern society demands. Funny that the very same people are suggesting that nothing needs to change with the lake district :shrug:

[Beso]

I can't imagine many old folk haring about on the quads or managing the mountain biking. ..what a load of ageist wank some people come out with these days...Ive accepted not one of them have been in thier lives; and certainly don't have much of a clue about all the activities that can be enjoyed for all ages.

[Oliver_W]

People sneer when holiday firms or high street chains go out of business because they have not modernised and stayed in touch with what modern society demands. Funny that the very same people are suggesting that nothing needs to change with the lake district :shrug:

Who in this thread has done that?

[Crimson Dynamo]

good luck getting the Malia crew there or wheelchair users up the peaks

what the chap needs to do is find out all the things that will get him funding and then just do the bare minimum to trigger the cash - i am sure a few clever heads can get around all the silly PC red tape

[Marsh.]

That's a ridiculous comparison as the residents and business owners in the Lake District aren't hostile toward visitors.

Erm... that's my point. :facepalm:

Your response was that "there's absolutely nothing stopping anyone from visiting" as though a crowd of rabid white folk with pitchforks physically keeping people out is the only possible way the OP could be correct.

Just as the point about disabled has got people laughing their arses off about wheelchairs up mountains. Completely missing the point.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Erm... that's my point. :facepalm:

Your response was that "there's absolutely nothing stopping anyone from visiting" as though a crowd of rabid white folk with pitchforks physically keeping people out is the only possible way the OP could be correct.

Just as the point about disabled has got people laughing their arses off about wheelchairs up mountains. Completely missing the point.

you talk about the place as if its butlins with a wall around it and a gate to get in. Have you actually been to the area for a holiday?

[Oliver_W]

Erm... that's my point. :facepalm:

Your response was that "there's absolutely nothing stopping anyone from visiting" as though a crowd of rabid white folk with pitchforks physically keeping people out is the only possible way the OP could be correct

well there is nothing stopping people from going :shrug: unless you think I've missed something?

[Redway]

good luck getting the Malia crew there or wheelchair users up the peaks

what the chap needs to do is find out all the things that will get him funding and then just do the bare minimum to trigger the cash - i am sure a few clever heads can get around all the silly PC red tape

Malia?

[Marsh.]

well there is nothing stopping people from going :shrug: unless you think I've missed something?

Who said they were being "stopped"?

There's a difference between being physically escorted out and not feeling welcome/catered for.

But anyone with the slightest common sense knows that.

[Marsh.]

you talk about the place as if its butlins with a wall around it and a gate to get in. Have you actually been to the area for a holiday?

Struggle with sarcasm daily do you?

My point is the exact opposite

[Crimson Dynamo]

Struggle with sarcasm daily do you?

But anyone with the slightest common sense knows that.

not sure why you are being aggressive on a thread about the lake District?

[Kizzy]

How is gentrification an issue there? There's nothing wrong with having a holiday home, ours in Norfolk doesn't keep people away from Winterton :shrug:

In the OP one of the issues raised is that the lakes are heavily weighted towards the white middle class. Which is why I raised gentrification, this is the age group that are purchasing property but not actually living there. This causes shops to close that don't cater solely to tourists and that affects communities.
It's relevant to the conversation, if you don't think so thats fine.

[Oliver_W]

Who said they were being "stopped"?

There's a difference between being physically escorted out and not feeling welcome/catered for.

But anyone with the slightest common sense knows that.
Why do they need to be catered for when it's a universal experience? What's missing for them?

[Kizzy]

What about hotels, and other accommodation, if you need a home in the area to visit there, holidays would be doomed :laugh:

I don't know... but that's how it is in the lakes and places like Robin hoods bay , quaint English village countryside cottages are Snapped up.

[Marsh.]

not sure why you are being aggressive on a thread about the lake District?

Aggressive. :joker: Nice try.

[Marsh.]

Why do they need to be catered for when it's a universal experience? What's missing for them?

Why do disabled people need to be catered for?

Seriously? I suggest you get someone to read your posts in future before posting such embarrassing guff.

[Twosugars]

You seem to think everyone white over 40 is a racist, that was the point YOU made about the thread, it’s not too much of a stretch to ask if you are racist yourself as your negative view of every white person seems to bear this out, you are happy enough to label people, I merely asked if you were

I haven’t broken any rules

Never said every older white person was racist so your rant misfired I'm afraid.

I simply put the idea of racism out there for discussion. Perfectly reasonable if the visitors fall disproportionately into one ethnic category. Something seems to be stopping non white visitors from coming.
What would that be in your opinion? :think:
And no, I'm not racist :)

[Oliver_W]

Why do disabled people need to be catered for?

Seriously? I suggest you get someone to read your posts in future before posting such embarrassing guff.

I've already conceded that disabled people might need extra help, I don't have an issue with that as long as it doesn't hugely change the face of the Lakes.

I was obviously asking why BAME people apparently feel uncatered for there.

[Redway]

You still haven’t explained what a Malia crew is LT.

[Crimson Dynamo]

You still haven’t explained what a Malia crew is LT.

Because i don't have too. Get with it Redway ffs :facepalm:

[Oliver_W]

You still haven’t explained what a Malia crew is LT.

Wait, some people might need that explaining to them? Okay :joker:


Malia is a place is Greece. People who like hot weather and partying go there. People who choose to holiday there might not be interested in somewhere like the Lake District.

[Beso]

Never said every older white person was racist so your rant misfired I'm afraid.

I simply put the idea of racism out there for discussion. Perfectly reasonable if the visitors fall disproportionately into one ethnic category. Something seems to be stopping non white visitors from coming.
What would that be in your opinion? :think:
And no, I'm not racist :)



Its advisable not to go hiking in a burka in the uk..::nono:

LT's weather centre thread confirms that.

[Ant.]

Wait, some people might need that explaining to them? Okay :joker:



Me when people ask how racism is an actual issue in 2019

[Twosugars]

Me when people ask how racism is an actual issue in 2019

Exactly. Well said.

[Redway]

Wait, some people might need that explaining to them? Okay :joker:


Malia is a place is Greece. People who like hot weather and partying go there. People who choose to holiday there might not be interested in somewhere like the Lake District.

It’s more funny how someone like you needs someone to explain what racism is and how it still exists in 2019.

We both know he didn’t bring up Malia in that sense. Why would he mention it in the context of diversity if that’s all he meant by it?

[Oliver_W]

It’s more funny how someone like you needs someone to explain what racism is and how it still exists in 2019.
I've still not heard how racism is preventing people from going for a walk in the hills :shrug:


We both know he didn’t bring up Malia in that sense. Why would he mention it in the context of diversity if that’s all he meant by it?
What he said was: good luck getting the Malia crew there or wheelchair users up the peaks

That wasn't relating to diversity. That was relating to Dezzy's comment about encouraging people to go to the Lakes when holidays abroad are so accessible.

[Redway]

I’d spin this out further but then I remember this is Oliver we’re talking about. Don’t know why I bothered replying in the first place.

[Redway]

At least LT isn’t so blatantly obnoxious in his baity replies.

[Oliver_W]

I’d spin this out further but then I remember this is Oliver we’re talking about. Don’t know why I bothered replying in the first place.

Sorry for trying to help you understand what was written :shrug:

[Redway]

Bye.

[Cherie]

In the OP one of the issues raised is that the lakes are heavily weighted towards the white middle class. Which is why I raised gentrification, this is the age group that are purchasing property but not actually living there. This causes shops to close that don't cater solely to tourists and that affects communities.
It's relevant to the conversation, if you don't think so thats fine.

Holiday homes being snapped up by out of towners happens everywhere, Cornwall, Devon, Wales, Norfolk...so why would it be an issue just in the LD

[jet]

I've still not heard how racism is preventing people from going for a walk in the hills :shrug:



It isn't.
I know a Muslim family who holiday in the Lake District for a week every year. They must love being made to feel unwelcome. :rolleyes:
Its utter nonsense.

[Cherie]

Never said every older white person was racist so your rant misfired I'm afraid.

I simply put the idea of racism out there for discussion. Perfectly reasonable if the visitors fall disproportionately into one ethnic category. Something seems to be stopping non white visitors from coming.
What would that be in your opinion? :think:
And no, I'm not racist :)

If you read the article...the LD is not attracting young people...it didn’t specify of what ethnicity so I expect all colours, as well as ethnic minority’s and those with disabilities, there are a myriad of reasons imo...cost, accessibility, not enough attractions other than hiking/walking, not enough advertising of what is on offer, few clubs, bars, shops, so very little to do with racism in my view but more to do with not being of interest to that audience

Your first thought is Racism, if they aren’t going there how would they know the locals were racist :bored:

[Oliver_W]

It isn't.
I know a Muslim family who holiday in the Lake District for a week every year. They must love being made to feel unwelcome. :rolleyes:
Its utter nonsense.

Word!

I think when it comes to Lake District, it's literally just a case of (broadly) different hobbies and location, it's not something that even should be mentioned.

But I do somewhat agree that accessibility should be enhanced, and if there's a way to make it appeal to younger people to hopefully turn them into lifelong attendants without ruining the area's character, then go for it.

[jet]

Thatchers youth... aging yuppies.
No they won't be racist at all :laugh:



A typical leftie trait...labelling people and putting them in neat little categories. Narrow mindedness of the first order.

[Crimson Dynamo]

A typical leftie trait...labelling people and putting them in neat little categories. Narrow mindedness of the first order.

Yep. Awful

[Kizzy]

Holiday homes being snapped up by out of towners happens everywhere, Cornwall, Devon, Wales, Norfolk...so why would it be an issue just in the LD

I didn't say it was, I mentioned robin hoods bay too.

[Cherie]

I didn't say it was, I mentioned robin hoods bay too.

Second home owners contribute to ghost towns out of season, it has little to do with the tourism numbers

[jet]

I’d spin this out further but then I remember this is Oliver we’re talking about. Don’t know why I bothered replying in the first place.

How rude.

[Redway]

How rude.

That’s nice.

[Kizzy]

Second home owners contribute to ghost towns out of season, it has little to do with the tourism numbers

How do they contribute out of season? They don't visit out of season.

The op mentioned the lack of diversity and the attraction of the middle aged I'm suggesting this is an example of that.

[Cherie]

How do they contribute out of season? They don't visit out of season.

The op mentioned the lack of diversity and the attraction of the middle aged I'm suggesting this is an example of that.

They contribute to making tourist resorts ghost towns out of season :laugh:

Maybe it’s a middle aged past time? don’t see too many club owners moaning there aren’t enough old people going lol ...

[Cherie]

I wonder if anyone has actually surveyed the audience they want to attract to understand the reason for them not visiting ...probably not

[Twosugars]

If you read the article...the LD is not attracting young people...it didn’t specify of what ethnicity so I expect all colours, as well as ethnic minority’s and those with disabilities, there are a myriad of reasons imo...cost, accessibility, not enough attractions other than hiking/walking, not enough advertising of what is on offer, few clubs, bars, shops, so very little to do with racism in my view but more to do with not being of interest to that audience

Your first thought is Racism, if they aren’t going there how would they know the locals were racist :bored:

We go to Cornwall often and there are young (and diverse) walkers doing trails and the SW Coast Path.

Idgi why LD is not attracting them

[Oliver_W]

How rude.

People are allowed to be rude, it's not a crime :shrug: But sometimes my expectations are too high, silly me :)

[Strictly Jake]

The lake district doesnt need rowdy pubs and clubs to attract young people

The lake district, very close to me actually, is a beautiful scenic place and in fact places they have tried to make more tourist friendly such as windermere have lost a lot of the beautiful magic

There isnt much to do if your not in to walking, having picnics and admiring the gorgeous views so if that isnt your thing maybe try blackpool, liverpool or manchester

As for me I have loved visiting it since being a baby and I dont want it spoilt by chavvy tourism

[Cherie]

We go to Cornwall often and there are young (and diverse) walkers doing trails and the SW Coast Path.

Idgi why LD is not attracting them

Cornwall attracts the surfing crowd plus it has some very clubby towns like Newquay

[smudgie]

Must have changed one hell of a lot the last couple of years.
A lot of the caravan parks are open and pretty full The 10 months they are open.
The tourers are mainly people with young families.
The statics on ours had kids and teens visiting and staying all through as well.
The main towns and the actual Lakes don’t need to advertise..you can’t move in season.
I am not saying you can climb the fells in a wheelchair, but there is still plenty to see and do, and all are made very welcome in my experience.

[Marsh.]

Holiday homes being snapped up by out of towners happens everywhere, Cornwall, Devon, Wales, Norfolk...so why would it be an issue just in the LD

Who said LD is the only place with the issue?

[Marsh.]

It isn't.
I know a Muslim family who holiday in the Lake District for a week every year. They must love being made to feel unwelcome. :rolleyes:
Its utter nonsense.

Well Oliver has a black next door neighbour who drives a nice car, so there.

[Marsh.]

A typical leftie trait...labelling people and putting them in neat little categories. Narrow mindedness of the first order.

You literally just used ONE Muslim family as an example of why racism doesn't exist. So let's not with the generalisations. :joker:

[Oliver_W]

You literally just used ONE Muslim family as an example of why racism doesn't exist. So let's not with the generalisations. :joker:
Have you got any examples to show that the LD might be racist?

[Marsh.]

Have you got any examples to show that the LD might be racist?

Am I Richard Leafe now?

Have you got any to show that it isn't?

[Kizzy]

They contribute to making tourist resorts ghost towns out of season :laugh:

Maybe it’s a middle aged past time? don’t see too many club owners moaning there aren’t enough old people going lol ...

Well yes they do thats kind of my point, I'm surprised you find it so funny. Buying a second property may be a middle aged pastime? Maybe not pastime but they are more likely to have the means certainly.

[Kizzy]

A typical leftie trait...labelling people and putting them in neat little categories. Narrow mindedness of the first order.

So you are complaining I'm being rude in a post by being rude to me? ...ok jet.

How about you comment on the topic and save the baiting for another time?

[Twosugars]

Cornwall attracts the surfing crowd plus it has some very clubby towns like Newquay

Should have specified I meant southern Cornwall, falmouth and the Lizzard. Also Penzance and newlyn. No surfing culture there, just walkers.

[Kizzy]

The lake district doesnt need rowdy pubs and clubs to attract young people

The lake district, very close to me actually, is a beautiful scenic place and in fact places they have tried to make more tourist friendly such as windermere have lost a lot of the beautiful magic

There isnt much to do if your not in to walking, having picnics and admiring the gorgeous views so if that isnt your thing maybe try blackpool, liverpool or manchester

As for me I have loved visiting it since being a baby and I dont want it spoilt by chavvy tourism

Strangely that's why Wordsworth didn't want the railways going to the lakes, he didn't want them bringing the great unwashed... don't you just love Victorian attitudes?....

[Oliver_W]

Am I Richard Leafe now?

Have you got any to show that it isn't?
You can't prove a negative. The default position is that there isn't rife racism, so unless there's evidence for some existing, we can safely assume there isn't any :)

[Marsh.]

You can't prove a negative. The default position is that there isn't rife racism, so unless there's evidence for some existing, we can safely assume there isn't any :)

So because someone who didn't make a point about racism to begin with doesn't provide an example it means any claims of racism is false? What a fallacy.

You claiming there is none, with zero back up doesn't prove or disprove anything either.

[Cherie]

Should have specified I meant southern Cornwall, falmouth and the Lizzard. Also Penzance and newlyn. No surfing culture there, just walkers.

So the white people in Cornwall aren’t racist lol...they must be congregated in the LD ...people like the coast, it offers a lot for all ages

[Cherie]

Well yes they do thats kind of my point, I'm surprised you find it so funny. Buying a second property may be a middle aged pastime? Maybe not pastime but they are more likely to have the means certainly.

I found it funny you missed my point yet again...but no matter...And no I didn’t mean buying a second property is a pastime Jesus H Christ i literally give up

[Marsh.]

Not Cherie owning a whole street by Bowness?

[Cherie]

Not Cherie owning a whole street by Bowness?

Keeps me out of mischief

[Twosugars]

So the white people in Cornwall aren’t racist lol...they must be congregated in the LD ...people like the coast, it offers a lot for all ages

You lol all you like. :)
The fact remains it is the LD that has the problem not Cornwall.
As a seafaring province Cornwall has always had contact with all nationalities and races.

[jet]

You literally just used ONE Muslim family as an example of why racism doesn't exist. So let's not with the generalisations. :joker:

Typical. Some lefties jump like delighted fleas on anything they can make a sentence out of with 'racism' in it - as long as its the 'right' kind of racism of course.

You didn't comment on Kizzy's awful generalisation of calling people 'Thatchers youth - aging racist yuppies'. Seems you don't mind ageism and narrow mindedness - as long as its the 'right' person saying it, of course.

[jet]

So you are complaining I'm being rude in a post by being rude to me? ...ok jet.

How about you comment on the topic and save the baiting for another time?

If you are going to call older people 'aging racist yuppies' then don't act all offended when someone reacts to your baiting.

[jet]

The lake district doesnt need rowdy pubs and clubs to attract young people

The lake district, very close to me actually, is a beautiful scenic place and in fact places they have tried to make more tourist friendly such as windermere have lost a lot of the beautiful magic

There isnt much to do if your not in to walking, having picnics and admiring the gorgeous views so if that isnt your thing maybe try blackpool, liverpool or manchester

As for me I have loved visiting it since being a baby and I dont want it spoilt by chavvy tourism

I agree. A beautiful unspoilt area should stay that way - that's the attraction of the LD! Its as if there isn't hundreds of other places to choose from to holiday in..talk about taking diversity to extremes...that is just getting beyond ridiculous.

[Kizzy]

I found it funny you missed my point yet again...but no matter...And no I didn’t mean buying a second property is a pastime Jesus H Christ i literally give up

OK no need to be rude cherie... :/

[Kizzy]

If you are going to call older people 'aging racist yuppies' then don't act all offended when someone reacts to your baiting.

I can make generalisations if I like ... however your rude offensive personal attack is baiting. Driven by nothing but your personal dislike of me. That's fine though, Im aware of it and I can't say it distracts me too much.
I'll still have my say.

[arista]

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/BF57/production/_110338984_thesun.jpg

[AnnieK]

You lol all you like. :)
The fact remains it is the LD that has the problem not Cornwall.
As a seafaring province Cornwall has always had contact with all nationalities and races.

Cornwall also has a lot more clement weather. The Lake District is beautiful....but also very bleak. More people are attracted to warmer climes I guess.

[James]

I think this discussion you're having shows how the social media / Twitter thing of reducing a story to a couple of sentences ends up missing the point of the issue. It was the Lake District tourist guy using words like 'diversity' and 'white', which seems to be trigger words to set off a 5-page debate.

It might be a help to copy and paste a whole article about the story. When you read it the main point of contention (which is being missed) seems to be how much car-access to allow in the area - whether to put down tarmac in a certain area.


Lake District 'must change' to attract more diverse visitors

Gerard Tubb - North of England correspondent

Sunday 29 December 2019 15:58, UK



The head of the Lake District National Park Authority in Cumbria says the rugged landscape excludes too many people and must change to attract a more diverse mix of visitors.

His warning comes after attempts to make the UNESCO World Heritage site more inclusive have sparked a series of rows with conservationists.

The authority is facing a High Court judicial review in the New Year over its refusal to ban 4x4 vehicles from some fell trails, while Keswick Town Council has passed a vote of no confidence in it over the creation of a tarmac path through woodland.


"We need to be able to sell the national park to everybody in Britain, all society, and it's important that it doesn't just become exclusive to one single use group," he said.


"The moment we get into that position I think national parks start to lose their relevance and therefore the very reason for calling it a national park and spending public money."


Research shows visitors to the Lake District, where the rugged fells inspired the romantic poets and author Beatrix Potter, are too heavily weighted towards older, able-bodied white people.



But conservationists have accused the park authority of launching an attack on the beauty and tranquillity of the area.

A crowdfunding effort to challenge the authority's "refusal to stop 4x4s and motorbikes ruining one of the most beautiful places in England" has raised more than £30,000 and will go to the High Court in 2020.

Meanwhile, an £8m project to create an accessible multi-user trail with a tarmac surface between Keswick and Threlkeld has been condemned by Keswick Town Council.

The scheme, which will be completed at the end of 2020, was designed to replace a traditional stone-surfaced path that was destroyed by Storm Desmond in 2015.


Paul Titley, a businessman who retired to the Lake District and who is now Keswick's deputy mayor, believes visitors have no right to paths that aren't muddy and should accept the environment as it is or go elsewhere.

"We have a phenomenal selection of outdoor clothing shops here for a reason - come and buy them, come and put them on and get yourself out in the hills," he said.

"If you get wet it won't hurt you, if you get cold put something else on."

A government-commissioned report into the future of Britain's protected landscapes which was published in September 2019 criticised national parks for not doing enough to make people welcome.


The author, writer Julian Glover, described them as an "exclusive, mainly white, mainly middle‐class club, with rules only members understand and much too little done to encourage first-time visitors".

Mr Leafe told Sky News he sees the controversies in Cumbria as part of the debate about who national parks are for.

"We are deficient in terms of young people, we are deficient in terms of black and minority ethnic communities and we are not particularly well-visited by those who are less able in terms of their mobility," he said.

"Our challenge is to see what we can do to reverse that, to encourage people from broader backgrounds and a wider range of personal mobilities into the national park to be able to benefit in the same way that those other groups do."


https://news.sky.com/story/lake-district-must-change-to-attract-more-diverse-visitors-11897034


Here's a nice picture for the Tapatalk thumbnail.

http://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=4807&stc=1&d=1577693104 (http://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=4805&stc=1&d=1577693134)
Loughrigg Tarn lake in the Lake District National Park, Cumbria.

[Cherie]

You lol all you like. :)
The fact remains it is the LD that has the problem not Cornwall.
As a seafaring province Cornwall has always had contact with all nationalities and races.

One person had said there is an issue, that doesn’t make it true

[Cherie]

Cornwall also has a lot more clement weather. The Lake District is beautiful....but also very bleak. More people are attracted to warmer climes I guess.

We visited the Lakes before the kids were born, never felt the need to take them there, if families go on a day out or for a holiday in the UK they tend to head to the coast as there is a mixture of activities

[Crimson Dynamo]

I think this discussion you're having shows how the social media / Twitter thing of reducing a story to a couple of sentences ends up missing the point of the issue. It was the Lake District tourist guy using words like 'diversity' and 'white', which seems to be trigger words to set off a 5-page debate.

It might be a help to copy and paste a whole article about the story. When you read it the main point of contention (which is being missed) seems to be how much car-access to allow in the area - whether to put down tarmac in a certain area.



https://news.sky.com/story/lake-district-must-change-to-attract-more-diverse-visitors-11897034


Here's a nice picture for the Tapatalk thumbnail.

http://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=4807&stc=1&d=1577693104 (http://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=4805&stc=1&d=1577693134)
Loughrigg Tarn lake in the Lake District National Park, Cumbria.

yes i think i made the point about finding out what would fail to trigger the grant and addressing that small part as cost effectively as possible, which is what every other business does

[jet]

I can make generalisations if I like ... however your rude offensive personal attack is baiting. Driven by nothing but your personal dislike of me. That's fine though, Im aware of it and I can't say it distracts me too much.
I'll still have my say.

Its not an offensive personal attack to point out that particular views label certain people and are narrow minded. Your own words did both.

[thesheriff443]

Thatchers youth... aging yuppies.
No they won't be racist at all :laugh:

There's an issue with gentrification in the lakes I remember that being seen as an issue on my last visit, lots of places stood empty as they were 2nd homes in the country.
It would be impossible to say how to make the lakes more attractive or appealing, it is in essence natural reletively unspoiled beauty.
Where possible accessibility should be a priority and funding could be made available for this.

The issue of vehicles needs addressing again, huge 4x4 s are not suitable for those roads and are a danger.

How have you got the audacity to mention thatcher, when you still got that utter embarrassment of a labour leader in you dig is beyond belief.

This is not about politics it’s about moving with the times, if labour would of done that they might still be relevant.

Move with the times or be left behind.

[Kizzy]

Its not an offensive personal attack to point out that particular views label certain people and are narrow minded. Your own words did both.

If it was the first time you had labelled me on this forum I could accept that but it isn't. Try holding yourself to your own standards.

I wont be responding to any more baiting, stick to the topic.

[Kizzy]

How have you got the audacity to mention thatcher, when you still got that utter embarrassment of a labour leader in you dig is beyond belief.

This is not about politics it’s about moving with the times, if labour would of done that they might still be relevant.

Move with the times or be left behind.

Again stick to the topic please ..

[Kizzy]

I think this discussion you're having shows how the social media / Twitter thing of reducing a story to a couple of sentences ends up missing the point of the issue. It was the Lake District tourist guy using words like 'diversity' and 'white', which seems to be trigger words to set off a 5-page debate.

It might be a help to copy and paste a whole article about the story. When you read it the main point of contention (which is being missed) seems to be how much car-access to allow in the area - whether to put down tarmac in a certain area.



https://news.sky.com/story/lake-district-must-change-to-attract-more-diverse-visitors-11897034


Here's a nice picture for the Tapatalk thumbnail.

http://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=4807&stc=1&d=1577693104 (http://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=4805&stc=1&d=1577693134)
Loughrigg Tarn lake in the Lake District National Park, Cumbria.

I did raise the 4x4 issue James, seems to me then that the lakes are being blackmailed ... they won't ban 4x4s so the next step is to widen paths to accommodate them in the name of 'accessibility' or lose funding.

[thesheriff443]

Again stick to the topic please ..

You should do the same then!

[Kizzy]

The old people of today are the middle-aged of the nineties, to still perpetuate the myth of the "racist old people" is a bit disengenous.

This is the comment I reacted to.

The middle aged of the 90s were thatchers youth. The age of the yuppie and loadsamoney. ..

Why is it being asserted, as Oliver is here in this quote that this group are less likely to become racist old people?
They are as likely if not more so due to the demonisation of minorities in the 80s beginning with the Brixton riots.

This is a separate debate,if you want to discuss it start a thread and I'll happily contribute.

[Beso]

This is the comment I reacted to.

The middle aged of the 90s were thatchers youth. The age of the yuppie and loadsamoney. ..

Why is it being asserted, as Oliver is here in this quote that this group are less likely to become racist old people?
They are as likely if not more so due to the demonisation of minorities in the 80s beginning with the Brixton riots.

This is a separate debate,if you want to discuss it start a thread and I'll happily contribute.




:joker::joker::joker:
this is the funniest view I've ever read on here.

[Crimson Dynamo]

This is the comment I reacted to.

The middle aged of the 90s were thatchers youth. The age of the yuppie and loadsamoney. ..

Why is it being asserted, as Oliver is here in this quote that this group are less likely to become racist old people?
They are as likely if not more so due to the demonisation of minorities in the 80s beginning with the Brixton riots.

This is a separate debate,if you want to discuss it start a thread and I'll happily contribute.

"due to the demonisation of minorities in the 80s beginning with the Brixton riots."

where are you getting that from??:conf:

[Kizzy]

'Farmers say the number of 4x4 tours taking tourists between High Tilberthwaite and Langdale increased from 30 a month in 2004 to up to 400 a month in 2017, destroying the tranquillity of the valley and eroding landscape.

The decision was made despite an online petition of 300,000 signatures and arguments from the trust and The International Council.'

So private enterprise is being favoured over the rights of the people of the lakes?

Of course it is.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/lake-district-refuses-to-ban-damaging-4x4-tours-l8b9q7wz3

[Kizzy]

"due to the demonisation of minorities in the 80s beginning with the Brixton riots."

where are you getting that from??:conf:

It's a well explored sociological perspective.

[Crimson Dynamo]

It's a well explored sociological perspective.

well lets see some links to those "studies"

[Beso]

The middle aged of the 90s were thatchers youth...


I was thatchers youth and was far from middle aged in the 90s fgs. 1 turned 30 in 2000.. more agism..nothing else.

[Beso]

1979 to 1990.....making me 9yr old to 20yr old from the day she left...


And making me no more than 30 when the 90s ended..


Is that middle aged now?...30...ffs...laughable..absolutely laughable.

[Kizzy]

well lets see some links to those "studies"

Google the Scarman report.

[Kizzy]

1979 to 1990.....making me 9yr old to 20yr old from the day she left...


And making me no more than 30 when the 90s ended..


Is that middle aged now?...30...ffs...laughable..absolutely laughable.
So you are an example of Thatchers youth...I'm not suggesting for a second that you personally are racist you understand.

[Beso]

So you are an example of Thatchers youth...I'm not suggesting for a second that you personally are racist you understand.


you are though....just own it :shrug:

[Tom4784]

It's always telling when people are more offended about the suggestion of racism than racism itself.

[Beso]

Google the Scarman report.



Is that the one that found that NO institutional racism existed?

[Kizzy]

you are though....just own it :shrug:

Nope ... all I said was, if you look that they weren't LESS likely to be racist.
And you're definately not less likely to be, it could be argued that thatchers youth are MORE likely to be.

I'm a product of Thatchers youth too, so it's all subjective.

[Beso]

Nope ... all I said was, if you look that they weren't LESS likely to be racist.
And you're definately not less likely to be, it could be argued that thatchers youth are MORE likely to be.

I'm a product of Thatchers youth too, so it's all subjective.


Ok..but even if it turns out that they are more likely to be racist surely that's down to parenting and not maggie thatcher?

[Kizzy]

Ok..but even if it turns out that they are more likely to be racist surely that's down to parenting and not maggie thatcher?

We are shaped by many things, primary socialisation is one factor.

[Twosugars]

It's always telling when people are more offended about the suggestion of racism than racism itself.

True :laugh:

[thesheriff443]

It's always telling when people are more offended about the suggestion of racism than racism itself.

What’s more telling is someone going around picking up table scraps trying to make a meal out of them.

You want to make out you are some superior individual when you are no better than anyone else.

With your high morals, no dezzy you just put yourself on a high horse.

[Tom4784]

What’s more telling is someone going around picking up table scraps trying to make a meal out of them.

You want to make out you are some superior individual when you are no better than anyone else.

With your high morals, no dezzy you just put yourself on a high horse.

Why so defensive? Bit strange for you to go on the attack like that when I wasn't speaking about anyone in particular, just a general attitude in the world.

[Crimson Dynamo]

It's always telling when people are more offended about the suggestion of racism than racism itself.

no its isnt

you do not know how much people are offended so the comment is fairly meaningless

[Tom4784]

no its isnt

you do not know how much people are offended so the comment is fairly meaningless

Just look at Sheriff's post above yours, he seems pretty offended for some strange reason.

[Marsh.]

Typical. Some lefties jump like delighted fleas on anything they can make a sentence out of with 'racism' in it - as long as its the 'right' kind of racism of course.

You didn't comment on Kizzy's awful generalisation of calling people 'Thatchers youth - aging racist yuppies'. Seems you don't mind ageism and narrow mindedness - as long as its the 'right' person saying it, of course.

I didn't mention racism. Typical defensive right winger.

[Beso]

We are shaped by many things, primary socialisation is one factor.

It's the biggest, no matter how many sensationalised scraps you and the sun throw at us.

[jet]

I didn't mention racism. Typical defensive right winger.

You actually did mention racism...
Right winger? You accuse me of generalising then you do it yourself :laugh:
I've supported and voted for the SDLP (N. Ireland) my entire adult life. They are not like the awful, mega - failed Corbyn version of Labour though, thank God.

[Kizzy]

It's the biggest, no matter how many sensationalised scraps you and the sun throw at us.

It's the earliest for sure, what has the sun taught you about socialisation, apart from who are the folk devils this year..is it hoodies, yobs, chavs, single mums, dole dossers or junkies?...

[Marsh.]

You actually did mention racism...

Nope.
In response to your post I questioned the validity of ONE muslim family being some kind of representative of everything and proof of racism not occurring.


Right winger? You accuse me of generalising then you do it yourself :laugh:

It's called sarcasm. In response to that "some lefties" diatribe thrown at me. :hee:


I've supported and voted for the SDLP (N. Ireland) my entire adult life. They are not like the awful, mega - failed Corbyn version of Labour though, thank God.

Not relevant, but ok.

[thesheriff443]

Why so defensive? Bit strange for you to go on the attack like that when I wasn't speaking about anyone in particular, just a general attitude in the world.

I’m calling you out for your constant need to be seen as a up holder of morals and values while casting shadows on others on this forum.

And the i was not talking about any one in particular is like there is someone but I’m not naming names.

Getting a dig in while staying within the rules.