Video Nasties - What was it all about?

[Swan]

Did you agree with the banning of films, the cuts made to many films? Were the nasties really that nasty?

I remember, just, the panic surrounding Child's Play 3 during the James Bulger case. As a very young child i was under the impression Child's Play 3 was to blame for the tragic event that occurred. Of course later in life i learned this not to be the case.

I have many memories of going to the little independent video rental stores as a child in the 90's and seeing all the amazing vhs covers, and mainly being attracted to the horror genre. Many stood out, but Fright Night probably stood out the most, i used to think it was awesome.

Through doing some reading on the subject, it became apparent that this wasn't a left vs right thing in the 80's, as both parties were equally against the 'video nasty' as it were.

I was just wondering if anyone had any opinions on the hysteria surrounding the panic throughout the 80's and 90's?

[Oliver_W]

I had to google "Video Nasties" because I hadn't heard that term before :joker: it was pretty obvious what it meant/what it was from your post, but thought I'd check!

I'm a big believer in any form of expression through media is okay, obviously apart from calls to violence, or involving minors being abused.

That said, I'm not a believer in freedom from consequence. If you make a film where the leader character attacks black people and calls them the N-word while being portrayed as heroic, be ready to be called racist. If you make a fictional snuff movie about Hillary Clinton, be ready to "commit suicide". If you make a film that pisses off the fanboys, be prepared to have your eyes never un-roll when you check twitter. etc etc.

[Mystic Mock]

I don't really believe in banning content from Entertainment tbh.

If you don't like it then don't watch it as the cliche goes.

[Kizzy]

I'm in the camp that it does affect your psyche, I believe in desensitisation and making films that can make people physically ill is not a good thing.
I'm not squeamish in real life, ok with wounds of all kinds but those ' buckets of blood' type films... nah, can't hack them.

[Tom4784]

Mary Whitehouse was a twat that blamed all the ills in the world on scapegoats and she never actually achieved anything meaningful. A wasted life.

Despite all the studies over decades, science has never managed to prove a link between violence and video games or violence and films. People who believe so are disregarding scientific fact in order to go with their gut and that makes them as stupid as anti-vaxxers to me.

The Video Nasty craze was nothing more than political jargon for politicians and the media to scare people with to earn votes and sell papers.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Watching violent films does make people more aggressive, study shows

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/11087683/Watching-violent-films-does-make-people-more-aggressive-study-shows.html

[Tom4784]

Watching violent films does make people more aggressive, study shows

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/11087683/Watching-violent-films-does-make-people-more-aggressive-study-shows.html

You've missed out the important part that renders this nothing but clickbait. It only counts for people who were aggressive to begin with and there's still no link between violence and violent content to begin with. You could say a football match that's not going an aggressive person's way could make them more aggressive. Aggressive people are aggressive and prone to anger that makes them more so, that's not really anything new.

Watching a gory film does not turn a person violent, video games doesn't cause people to kill other people. It's all scapegoats to justify censorship.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Violence is an extreme form of aggression, such as assault, rape or murder.

Violence has many causes, including frustration, exposure to violent media

American Psychological Association.


https://www.apa.org/topics/violence/

[Beso]

This video games and violent films don't effect people stance is absolutely ridiculous. ..course it does..hell take the witches face that pops on screen to frighten people on the net...I showed that to my nephew and his mate when they were about 14...I met them at xmas and his mate was telling me how it effected him for years...same as beheading videos...I watched one once and it was the last thing I would see before sleeping for about 6 months and I still get the heebie jeebies now if I think about my Adams apple....

It's massive business so of course scientists may say the opposite of what's really happening as there is so juch money at stake. Only sad middle aged gamers dispute people who believe that games and films do have a massive impact on people's well being.

[Tom4784]

This video games and violent films don't effect people stance is absolutely ridiculous. ..course it does..hell take the witches face that pops on screen to frighten people on the net...I showed that to my nephew and his mate when they were about 14...I met them at xmas and his mate was telling me how it effected him for years...same as beheading videos...I watched one once and it was the last thing I would see before sleeping for about 6 months and I still get the heebie jeebies now if I think about my Adams apple....

It's massive business so of course scientists may say the opposite of what's really happening as there is so juch money at stake. Only sad middle aged gamers dispute people who believe that games and films do have a massive impact on people's well being.

Anti-vaxx logic right there, 'I don't like that science doesn't support my opinion so they're obviously taking bribes to make out that I'm wrong!' As for your obvious little jibe aimed at me after the boldened point. You are older than I am and you don't understand the differences between a fact and an opinion so how about you sit down and stay in your lane.

Also your points have nothing to do with the fact that fictional forms of media cannot turn people violent which was a chief concern of the video nasty craze. There has never been a study that has truly proved such a link which a lot of politcians would love to exist since they could Project Fear the **** out of it for votes. There is no link and being unable to accept reality so you have to lie about corrupt scientists taking bribes to hide a non-existent truth won't change that.

[Tom4784]

Violence is an extreme form of aggression, such as assault, rape or murder.

Violence has many causes, including frustration, exposure to violent media

American Psychological Association.


https://www.apa.org/topics/violence/

But films or games can't make a person violent and no amount of twisting or clickbait on your part will change the fact that no such link exists.

[Kizzy]

Mary Whitehouse was a twat that blamed all the ills in the world on scapegoats and she never actually achieved anything meaningful. A wasted life.

Despite all the studies over decades, science has never managed to prove a link between violence and video games or violence and films. People who believe so are disregarding scientific fact in order to go with their gut and that makes them as stupid as anti-vaxxers to me.

The Video Nasty craze was nothing more than political jargon for politicians and the media to scare people with to earn votes and sell papers.

Lots of people go with their gut on lots of things... theres no comprison to antivaxxers, nobody is at risk from my views :/

[Tom4784]

Lots of people go with their gut on lots of things... theres no comprison to antivaxxers, nobody is at risk from my views :/

But it's a similar mindset. 'There's no scientific proof that it's dangerous despite many studies to see if it is but i'll believe my gut over the facts'.

Just because you aren't harming someone with your views doesn't make that you're ignoring the evidence any better. Studies have been going on in this subject since the 80's and they've become renewed in their efforts since the 90's when parents got up in arms about Doom and Mortal Kombat. 30+ years of studies have never resulted in anything other than a confirmation of no link between violent films/games and violence.

[Beso]

But films or games can't make a person violent and no amount of twisting or clickbait on your part will change the fact that no such link exists.

They can make people depressed and anxious....draining our NHS

[user104658]

Lots of people go with their gut on lots of things... theres no comprison to antivaxxers, nobody is at risk from my views :/

If your views took off we'd be in for heavy entertainment media censorship so I completely disagree. Honestly I'd rather live in a world of measles than a hardcore nanny state.

There is no proven link between media and violent tendencies... none. It's been scapegoated for years from movies to games and back again. It's just BS pop psychology and political propaganda.

[Tom4784]

They can make people depressed and anxious....draining our NHS

A happy person will not watch a violent film and develop depression over it. That's not how depression works. Games don't have that power either. If someone is depressed then the route cause goes deeper then whether or not they've played GTA or watched a Quentin Tarantino film.

For ****s and giggles, do you have any figures for how much of a drain games and films are on the NHS? Go on, indulge me.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Using such general models, media violence scholars now have a clear picture
of how media violence increases aggression in short and long term contexts.
Immediately after exposure to media violence, there is an increase in
aggressive behavior tendencies because of several factors. 1. Aggressive
thoughts increase, which in turn increase the likelihood that a mild or
ambiguous provocation will be interpreted in a hostile fashion. 2. Aggressive
affect increases. 3. General arousal (e.g., heart rate) increases, which tends
to increase the dominant behavioral tendency. 4. Direct imitation of recently
observed aggressive behaviors sometimes occurs.


Repeated media violence exposure increases aggression across the lifespan
because of several related factors. 1. It creates more positive attitudes,
beliefs, and expectations regarding use of aggressive solutions. 2. It creates
aggressive behavioral scripts and makes them more cognitively accessible. 3.
It decreases the accessibility of nonviolent scripts. 4. It decreases the
normal negative emotional reactions to conflict, aggression, and violence.


https://www.apa.org/science/about/psa/2003/10/anderson

[Tom4784]

Using such general models, media violence scholars now have a clear picture
of how media violence increases aggression in short and long term contexts.
Immediately after exposure to media violence, there is an increase in
aggressive behavior tendencies because of several factors. 1. Aggressive
thoughts increase, which in turn increase the likelihood that a mild or
ambiguous provocation will be interpreted in a hostile fashion. 2. Aggressive
affect increases. 3. General arousal (e.g., heart rate) increases, which tends
to increase the dominant behavioral tendency. 4. Direct imitation of recently
observed aggressive behaviors sometimes occurs.


Repeated media violence exposure increases aggression across the lifespan
because of several related factors. 1. It creates more positive attitudes,
beliefs, and expectations regarding use of aggressive solutions. 2. It creates
aggressive behavioral scripts and makes them more cognitively accessible. 3.
It decreases the accessibility of nonviolent scripts. 4. It decreases the
normal negative emotional reactions to conflict, aggression, and violence.


https://www.apa.org/science/about/psa/2003/10/anderson

That's a great article.... From 2003, I guess the 17 years of further research into the matter that's shown no link to violence doesn't matter.

At the end of the day, aggressive people are aggressive, more so when you factor in competition. A non-violent person will never become violent because they have seen a film or played a game. No such link exists and scouring the internet because you are driven by the need to spite me will not change that.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Virtual violence influences child development

Studies over decades have shown a link between exposure to media violence and
aggressive behavior and thoughts.


“This is settled science—studies have shown a connection between virtual violence and
real world aggression,” Christakis said. “Often times when this issue is presented in
media, we’ll see one person on TV taking a different perspective. But the science is clear
that there is a real world effect.”


The report cites research that shows the typical child will have seen 8,000 murders and
100,000 other acts of violence, including rape and assault, before middle school. Studies
have shown that exposure to violent content can lead to angry feelings and actual or
observed aggression.


“The media and gaming industry needs to produce children’s games and entertainment
that do not contain violence,” Christakis said. “To keep a game’s appeal and adrenaline
rush, game producers resort to intensifying violence and this is affecting our kids.”


He points out that glamorized virtual violence does not show the consequences of real
violence—victims who are injured or die as a result of violence and the devastating
impact this has on the victims’ families.


Christakis says the hopeful news is that when a child’s media diet is changed to feature
more positive content, the results are good.


“Research has shown that a child’s aggressive behavior decreases when violent media is
eliminated and replaced with positive content,” he said.


https://pulse.seattlechildrens.org/how-violence-in-video-games-and-media-harm-child-development/

[user104658]

LT do you know the difference between an OpEd, a literature review, and a study? Because so far you've posted the first two but no actual study. I was actually interested in the first one until I realised I'd reached the bottom of the page and it contained no data at all. Not even one measly correlation graph :think:. He also exposes bias multiple times in his intro.

The second one is literally just an opinion piece that's worth no more than a post on here.

[Kizzy]

But it's a similar mindset. 'There's no scientific proof that it's dangerous despite many studies to see if it is but i'll believe my gut over the facts'.

Just because you aren't harming someone with your views doesn't make that you're ignoring the evidence any better. Studies have been going on in this subject since the 80's and they've become renewed in their efforts since the 90's when parents got up in arms about Doom and Mortal Kombat. 30+ years of studies have never resulted in anything other than a confirmation of no link between violent films/games and violence.
It's a personal belief, I have to say you're coming across a bit militant about it. Theres nothing written that says you have
To have all your views grounded in science... again it's nothing like antivaxxers or that mindset as there is no risk posed to myself or anyone else due to my views and I don't impose them on anyone else or my childrent. They can have their own view as individuals.

[Marsh.]

"You don't have to have your views grounded in science" is the antivax comparison though.

[Beso]

A happy person will not watch a violent film and develop depression over it. That's not how depression works. Games don't have that power either. If someone is depressed then the route cause goes deeper then whether or not they've played GTA or watched a Quentin Tarantino film.

For ****s and giggles, do you have any figures for how much of a drain games and films are on the NHS? Go on, indulge me.



Maybe they enable depression, allowing the sufferer to forget they're ills for however long they desire..but the state of them after a 30 hour binge must deepen the depression when they stare in the mirror.

[Crimson Dynamo]

3RKZn2Sf7bo

The leader of the free world speaks about THE LINK

[arista]

You've missed out the important part that renders this nothing but clickbait. It only counts for people who were aggressive to begin with and there's still no link between violence and violent content to begin with. You could say a football match that's not going an aggressive person's way could make them more aggressive. Aggressive people are aggressive and prone to anger that makes them more so, that's not really anything new.

Watching a gory film does not turn a person violent, video games doesn't cause people to kill other people. It's all scapegoats to justify censorship.


Yes I agree.

[Crimson Dynamo]

that nutjob in the mosque in NZ deffo used his COD skills

for sure

[Marsh.]

Maybe they enable depression, allowing the sufferer to forget they're ills for however long they desire..but the state of them after a 30 hour binge must deepen the depression when they stare in the mirror.

That's still not convincing.

Someone severely depressed may not surface out of a cosy bed for days and feel worse for it, deepening their depression.

Would you then infer that mattresses enable depression? No.

[Beso]

That's still not convincing.

Someone severely depressed may not surface out of a cosy bed for days and feel worse for it, deepening their depression.

Would you then infer that mattresses enable depression? No.

Yes.

[Marsh.]

:idc:

[Beso]

:idc:

I know someone who has a brand new mattress sitting in her living room unopened, cause she likes the groove she's made in her one through day upon day of being unable to move due to fibromalgi, even on an up day for her bi polar she still can't move ..I think it's her depression and the mattress making her feel less depressed...so the mattress is enabling her depression..

I should have got her chocolates for xmas..cause she ain't wanting the mattress moved for another month...

[Marsh.]

I know someone who has a brand new mattress sitting in her living room unopened, cause she likes the groove she's made in her one through day upon day of being unable to move due to fibromalgi, even on an up day for her bi polar she still can't move ..I think it's her depression and the mattress making her feel less depressed...so the mattress is enabling her depression..

I should have got her chocolates for xmas..cause she ain't wanting the mattress moved for another month...

People who are depressed seeking out comfort in things doesn't make what they seek comfort in the problem. That's a ridiculous assertion.

In your example, the fibromalgi and bipolar are the causes of her depression. Not her mattress. The chronic pain is causing her depression, the mattress is alleviating it.

[Beso]

People who are depressed seeking out comfort in things doesn't make what they seek comfort in the problem. That's a ridiculous assertion.

In your example, the fibromalgi and bipolar are the causes of her depression. Not her mattress. The chronic pain is causing her depression, the mattress is alleviating it.


Enabling it...she has a perfectly new one downstairs waiting.

[Marsh.]

Enabling it...she has a perfectly new one downstairs waiting.

And you haven't given her a hand changing it as she struggles with chronic pain. :nono:

[Oliver_W]

My new mattresses are never as nice as the previous one until I've worn a groove into it :shrug: of the possible "enablers" to point a finger at, that's really reaching...

[Marsh.]

I prefer a firm mattress to one that you "sink" into.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I prefer a firm mattress to one that you "sink" into.

we bought an EMMA mattress and have never looked back

Which recommended you know:hee:

[Marsh.]

we bought an EMMA mattress and have never looked back

Which recommended you know:hee:

I literally never imagined TL's name would be Emma. :think:

[Crimson Dynamo]

:oh:

[Amy Jade]

There is a great documentary on 'video nasties' on shudder iirc. Most of them were passed without cuts eventually and most should have never been banned to begin with, Mary Whitehouse just found it easier to blame movies.

Always makes me laugh when people say they create killers too, I have been watching horrors since I was about 7. My cousins let me watch Texas Chainsaw when I was about 10 and yeah it obviously scared me but I enjoyed the thrill, always have done and now consider myself a bit of a horror buff. I've watched absolutely tons of horror and I am a care giver professionally so far from a psycho with no empathy like horror fans sometimes get called.

I think the only movies I am against and feel deserve to be regarded as trash are ones where animals were killed for entertainment.

[Oliver_W]

TV shows don't cause violence, cancelling them does! Waynas Brothers was a good show!!

[Beso]

And you haven't given her a hand changing it as she struggles with chronic pain. :nono:

Ive just told you she won't let me cause of her depression being enabled by the groove in her old mattress.

[Beso]

The Internet causes depression...online gaming chat rooms cause depression..

[Marsh.]

Ive just told you she won't let me cause of her depression being enabled by the groove in her old mattress.

We believe you love.

[Beso]

We believe you love.

I'm along there now actually. .shall I get her to phone you

[Crimson Dynamo]

The Internet causes depression...online gaming chat rooms cause depression..

well as long as a doctor has diagnosed you.

and not self diagnosed, a lot of that going on....

[Marsh.]

I'm along there now actually. .shall I get her to phone you

Yes please.

[Marsh.]

The Internet causes depression...online gaming chat rooms cause depression..

Well, literally anything can cause depression. Doesn't mean anything in the long run.

[user104658]

Having done a bit of Googly Research, it seems like the general consensus is that violent imagery in entertainment can inspire "the specific method" of an attack that would probably have been carried out anyway in some form, and can indeed trigger violent outbursts in individuals who are ALREADY predisposed to violence.

They can't and don't make non-violent individuals "turn violent".

I guess you could consider the former a concern but things like alcohol and drugs are MUCH bigger violence triggers... As are basic-arse things like road rage and "job rage". I don't see many people calling for banning frustrating jobs, cars, or (god forbid) precious alcohol when alcohol is involved in NEARLY 1/3 of violent crimes.

Interestingly... Something that does decrease empathy is exposure to REAL violent imagery. So that's things like LiveLeak... Or broadcast news. Ban that filth?

[Scarlett.]

They can make people depressed and anxious....draining our NHS

So can coffee :shrug: We gonna ban that next? :laugh:

[user104658]

well as long as a doctor has diagnosed you.



and not self diagnosed, a lot of that going on....The diagnostic process for generalised depression/anxiety is that you go to your GP and say "Hi doctor, I am experiencing feelings of depression/anxiety" and they start a treatment plan. I don't know what you imagine the criteria is if not self-reporting?

[Scarlett.]

Having done a bit of Googly Research, it seems like the general consensus is that violent imagery in entertainment can inspire "the specific method" of an attack that would probably have been carried out anyway in some form, and can indeed trigger violent outbursts in individuals who are ALREADY predisposed to violence.

They can't and don't make non-violent individuals "turn violent".

I guess you could consider the former a concern but things like alcohol and drugs are MUCH bigger violence triggers... As are basic-arse things like road rage and "job rage". I don't see many people calling for banning frustrating jobs, cars, or (god forbid) precious alcohol when alcohol is involved in NEARLY 1/3 of violent crimes.

Interestingly... Something that does decrease empathy is exposure to REAL violent imagery. So that's things like LiveLeak... Or broadcast news. Ban that filth?

When I was younger I used to look at stuff on liveleak, until I noticed I'd started getting desensitized to it, so I decided to steer well clear of anything like that. Seeing real stuff is worlds apart from harmless stuff in video games and films.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Seeing real stuff is worlds apart from harmless stuff in video games and films.

" Seeing real stuff is worlds apart from harmless stuff in video games"

‘Rape Day’: A new video game glorifying sexual assault raises questions about regulation

A graphic new video game called Rape Day, set to launch in April, triggered a swift and widespread public outcry.

Created by an independent developer, Rape Day is a set in a zombie apocalypse, where the player controls a protagonist described as a “menacing serial killer rapist”.

Rape Day is a “visual novel” – players choose from a variety of sequences of still images that contain written dialogue options and prewritten story choices.

And the rape of women is encouraged to progress the plot.

-------------

you could not make it up

:skull:

[Beso]

When I was younger I used to look at stuff on liveleak, until I noticed I'd started getting desensitized to it, so I decided to steer well clear of anything like that. Seeing real stuff is worlds apart from harmless stuff in video games and films.

For you that may be true.....

[user104658]

When I was younger I used to look at stuff on liveleak, until I noticed I'd started getting desensitized to it, so I decided to steer well clear of anything like that. Seeing real stuff is worlds apart from harmless stuff in video games and films.Exactly, I could play GTA5 all day and laugh at people flying through windscreens and off motorbikes, but I once accidentally saw LiveLeak footage of a motorbike accident where the guy was OK but his girlfriend who was on the back with no helmet was clearly dead, and I swear it felt like a hot knife in the stomach and the wail he let out still ****ing haunts me.

Someone also showed me a bit of "three guys one hammer" which is less brutal than even a mild horror/slasher film but it's scarred me for life. Horrific. It's just completely different.


Honestly says a lot to me that an awful lot of these "concerned folks" who think movie violence is awful, can look at pictures of drowned kids on the front of a newspaper and say "meh shouldn't have tried to cross, I blame their reckless parents". Jaded old farts trying to lecture others on decreased empathy [emoji849]

[Scarlett.]

" Seeing real stuff is worlds apart from harmless stuff in video games"

‘Rape Day’: A new video game glorifying sexual assault raises questions about regulation

A graphic new video game called Rape Day, set to launch in April, triggered a swift and widespread public outcry.

Created by an independent developer, Rape Day is a set in a zombie apocalypse, where the player controls a protagonist described as a “menacing serial killer rapist”.

Rape Day is a “visual novel” – players choose from a variety of sequences of still images that contain written dialogue options and prewritten story choices.

And the rape of women is encouraged to progress the plot.

-------------

you could not make it up

:skull:

It's not a game that is on Steam, Origin, Epic, Nintendo, Xbox or PS4, nor would you ever see it on those platforms, it's an independant game made by some ****wit nutjob. That's like saying films suck because of stuff like A Serbian Film

[Marsh.]

Honestly says a lot to me that an awful lot of these "concerned folks" who think movie violence is awful, can look at pictures of drowned kids on the front of a newspaper and say "meh shouldn't have tried to cross, I blame their reckless parents". Jaded old farts trying to lecture others on decreased empathy [emoji849]

:worship:

[user104658]

" Seeing real stuff is worlds apart from harmless stuff in video games"



‘Rape Day’: A new video game glorifying sexual assault raises questions about regulation



A graphic new video game called Rape Day, set to launch in April, triggered a swift and widespread public outcry.



Created by an independent developer, Rape Day is a set in a zombie apocalypse, where the player controls a protagonist described as a “menacing serial killer rapist”.



Rape Day is a “visual novel” – players choose from a variety of sequences of still images that contain written dialogue options and prewritten story choices.



And the rape of women is encouraged to progress the plot.



-------------



you could not make it up



:skull:RapeDay was literally designed to be "as shocking as possible" so that it would go viral and make money from nothing. They knew it would be banned, and it's barely even a game. Do your research LT :nono:. It's like comparing a professionally made film to a YouTube video of a dog fight.

[Twosugars]

Exactly, I could play GTA5 all day and laugh at people flying through windscreens and off motorbikes, but I once accidentally saw LiveLeak footage of a motorbike accident where the guy was OK but his girlfriend who was on the back with no helmet was clearly dead, and I swear it felt like a hot knife in the stomach and the wail he let out still ****ing haunts me.

Someone also showed me a bit of "three guys one hammer" which is less brutal than even a mild horror/slasher film but it's scarred me for life. Horrific. It's just completely different.


Honestly says a lot to me that an awful lot of these "concerned folks" who think movie violence is awful, can look at pictures of drowned kids on the front of a newspaper and say "meh shouldn't have tried to cross, I blame their reckless parents". Jaded old farts trying to lecture others on decreased empathy [emoji849

So true. Sad aging alcoholics raging at world and trying to bring everyone to their morally-bankrupt level. Sadly too familiar.

[Crimson Dynamo]

RapeDay was literally designed to be "as shocking as possible" so that it would go viral and make money from nothing. They knew it would be banned, and it's barely even a game. Do your research LT :nono:. It's like comparing a professionally made film to a YouTube video of a dog fight.

there is always some excuse to try and pretend its not a problem. Oh its not on origin

ffs

:skull:

[AnnieK]

Originally, there were I think 39 banned video nasties which the BBFC decided should be banned once certifications came in. The original pre cert films still exist and go for a lot of money. My ex was an avid collector of pre cert vhs tapes, the big money was in the banned "Nasties". A lot of them were just that too...nasty and absolute rubbish. But worth £1000s

[Scarlett.]

there is always some excuse to try and pretend its not a problem. Oh its not on origin

ffs

:skull:

It's literally an unregulated game, put on the internet by some weirdo, there's nothing the gaming industry can actually do to stop it, that's the job of the regulators. Like, pretty much all of the gaming community are disgusted by games like that

[Crimson Dynamo]

So true. Sad aging alcoholics raging at world and trying to bring everyone to their morally-bankrupt level. Sadly too familiar.

Alcoholism is a disease. how disgusting to hate on a disability, imagine someone posted that about depressives. what a vile hateful comment

this hate should not be tolerated

[Marsh.]

there is always some excuse to try and pretend its not a problem. Oh its not on origin

ffs

:skull:

That's like you making a snuff film and blaming Hollywood for its existence.

[Crimson Dynamo]

That's like you making a snuff film and blaming Hollywood for its existence.

no its saying a film is a film, that people watch

:skull:

[Scarlett.]

no its saying a film is a film, that people watch

:skull:

That doesn't even make sense as a reply :shrug:

[Marsh.]

no its saying a film is a film, that people watch

:skull:

Again that doesn't make sense. Those films are ILLEGAL. Comparing it to mainstream commercial films is ridiculous.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Again that doesn't make sense. Those films are ILLEGAL. Comparing it to mainstream commercial films is ridiculous.

"These video releases were not brought before the British Board of Film Classification (BBFC) due to a loophole in film classification laws that allowed videos to bypass the review process. "

wiki: video nasties

[Jessica.]

The Internet causes depression...online gaming chat rooms cause depression..When I was in my deepest, darkest depression, which was caused by personal life events, the internet and games were the only thing that got me through the day. I couldn't take my mind off the pain otherwise.

[Scarlett.]

When I was in my deepest, darkest depression, which was caused by personal life events, the internet and games were the only thing that got me through the day. I couldn't take my mind off the pain otherwise.

Honestly same, I had a dark decade from 2010-2018 and if it wasn't for a few games I'd have never gotten out of that hole.

[Marsh.]

"These video releases were not brought before the British Board of Film Classification (BBFC) due to a loophole in film classification laws that allowed videos to bypass the review process. "

wiki: video nasties

Again.... comparing it to mainstream commercial films is ridiculous.

Literally anyone can see anything at any time in their real life. Should we ban the ownership of eyes?

[Kizzy]

If your views took off we'd be in for heavy entertainment media censorship so I completely disagree. Honestly I'd rather live in a world of measles than a hardcore nanny state.

There is no proven link between media and violent tendencies... none. It's been scapegoated for years from movies to games and back again. It's just BS pop psychology and political propaganda.
But I'm not advocating my views... I haven't suggested they need to 'take off' they are my personal views. You've whipped my comment about how I feel on this subject into me proffering a nanny state!... do you see how irrational that is?
I didn't suggest there was any links...so there's no need to get so agitated, I responded to the thread topic and unleashed a torrent of accusations and assumption. Very odd.

[Kizzy]

"You don't have to have your views grounded in science" is the antivax comparison though.

You don't have to have your views on anything grounded in science could also be a religious comparison too couldn't it?

[Kizzy]

Exactly, I could play GTA5 all day and laugh at people flying through windscreens and off motorbikes, but I once accidentally saw LiveLeak footage of a motorbike accident where the guy was OK but his girlfriend who was on the back with no helmet was clearly dead, and I swear it felt like a hot knife in the stomach and the wail he let out still ****ing haunts me.

Someone also showed me a bit of "three guys one hammer" which is less brutal than even a mild horror/slasher film but it's scarred me for life. Horrific. It's just completely different.


Honestly says a lot to me that an awful lot of these "concerned folks" who think movie violence is awful, can look at pictures of drowned kids on the front of a newspaper and say "meh shouldn't have tried to cross, I blame their reckless parents". Jaded old farts trying to lecture others on decreased empathy [emoji849]

I really hope you aren't referring to me here, I can see where you're coming from a little here though, dehumanising media has worked it's magic in that regard. People don't just wake up one day and not feel empathy it has to be trained out of you.

[Swan]

Exactly, I could play GTA5 all day and laugh at people flying through windscreens and off motorbikes, but I once accidentally saw LiveLeak footage of a motorbike accident where the guy was OK but his girlfriend who was on the back with no helmet was clearly dead, and I swear it felt like a hot knife in the stomach and the wail he let out still ****ing haunts me.

Someone also showed me a bit of "three guys one hammer" which is less brutal than even a mild horror/slasher film but it's scarred me for life. Horrific. It's just completely different.


Honestly says a lot to me that an awful lot of these "concerned folks" who think movie violence is awful, can look at pictures of drowned kids on the front of a newspaper and say "meh shouldn't have tried to cross, I blame their reckless parents". Jaded old farts trying to lecture others on decreased empathy [emoji849]

Yes i think you sum it up perfectly.

Also, thanks for all the replies, made for an interesting read. Im planning on doing a paper on the subject, so all views and opinions are much appreciated.

But yes, my view tends to lead toward the real life horror and gore, compared to acted horror and gore which effects the human psyche in completely different ways. Just talking about that video you mentioned Toy Soldier makes me feel quite anxious, something that has most certainly scared me for life. Whereas i've watched every video nasty, bar Faces of Death, and none of them effected me anything like the way that video did. However i agree with another poster who didn't like the real life animal cruelty in some of these movies, there is no need for that ever. But otherwise most of films on the DDP list are fun and trashy (some very well made, most not, some 'scary/shocking', most not).

[Kizzy]

If there is a very distinct differential then why do film makers now try more inventive ways to turn peoples stomachs?
It's only acting, yet if there is a physiological response to that acting then how can we be 100% certain there couldn't be a psychological one?

What makes us sick in these instances, is it a response to a visual image that creates extreme anxiety and that manifests physically?
Sounds like how I would describe a symptom of PTSD.

Ive been thinking about this for a long time and that's the only thing I can put it down to then if they affect me and some in a certain way and not others, as a response to past trauma?

I'm not wrong to feel like that nor is it wrong to express that that is how I feel about the subject.

[Ammi]

Exactly, I could play GTA5 all day and laugh at people flying through windscreens and off motorbikes, but I once accidentally saw LiveLeak footage of a motorbike accident where the guy was OK but his girlfriend who was on the back with no helmet was clearly dead, and I swear it felt like a hot knife in the stomach and the wail he let out still ****ing haunts me.

Someone also showed me a bit of "three guys one hammer" which is less brutal than even a mild horror/slasher film but it's scarred me for life. Horrific. It's just completely different.


Honestly says a lot to me that an awful lot of these "concerned folks" who think movie violence is awful, can look at pictures of drowned kids on the front of a newspaper and say "meh shouldn't have tried to cross, I blame their reckless parents". Jaded old farts trying to lecture others on decreased empathy [emoji849]


...I don’t know if you’ve watched ‘Don’t **** With Cats...’.../Netflix...but it’s something that I’ve just watched within the last few days...and it kind of fits perfectly with this topic..(..it’s also disturbed me a little..)..desensitisation is a strange thing because a group of people were watching someone being brutally killed/horrifically killed ...and some of the reactions, although of shock...were quite worrying also...how the killer had ‘desensitised’ his audience, if you like...how (..although horrified..)...they were becoming distracted with his ‘cat and mouse’ game...and yes, there was horror and upset that this person being brutally slain was a human... but he had just become ‘A human‘...as opposed to ‘A cat’, you know...?...

...even when someone has done some pretty evil stuff in their lives, it repulses me at the thought of watching a ‘public execution’ and taking any type of pleasure or satisfaction in it...and many people have watched beheadings of captives by terrorist groups, that’s something that I also could never do...


...but I can though...(..when I’m in the vibe..)...shoot the bejesus repeatedly out of zombies and the like in a video game...

[Kizzy]

Well I can't comment on the cat film as I'm too much of a wuss to watch it :laugh:
In real life situations though can any of it be a product of desensitisation, from MPs baying for military action in response to agression that will affect civilians to refugee children lying dead on beaches... how much of that has a basis in desensitisation?
We don't know, but can we hand on heart say none?

I'm an extreme case I know that, I can't even watch zombie films and I know that's irrational as they dont even exist! I can't play shooting games at all because I can't handle the feeling of being hunted, and it's always been like that its not something I've come to in middle age.

[Beso]

So true. Sad aging alcoholics raging at world and trying to bring everyone to their morally-bankrupt level. Sadly too familiar.

I'm not the one suffering from depression....nor an alcoholic. .aging yes. ...Im 50 this year, same age as question of sport...

Your response is typical of someone suffering from depression....blame others and refuse or refute any help or blame on thier own side.

[Ammi]

....that’s always the interesting thing with stuff like CBT...how we can ‘make sense of and associate’ so much when we mind-map ourselves and trace our thought processes...it’s something that we tend to not do that often, if it all...:laugh:..but it’s amazing how much would make perfect sense, fitted to our life experiences/fears etc ...and our ‘quirks’, if you like...well, it’s all our individuality...

[Beso]

If there is a very distinct differential then why do film makers now try more inventive ways to turn peoples stomachs?
It's only acting, yet if there is a physiological response to that acting then how can we be 100% certain there couldn't be a psychological one?

What makes us sick in these instances, is it a response to a visual image that creates extreme anxiety and that manifests physically?
Sounds like how I would describe a symptom of PTSD.

Ive been thinking about this for a long time and that's the only thing I can put it down to then if they affect me and some in a certain way and not others, as a response to past trauma?

I'm not wrong to feel like that nor is it wrong to express that that is how I feel about the subject.

Like I said...everyone reacts differently to certain things.

Good post.

[Jessica.]

Your response is typical of someone suffering from depression....blame others and refuse or refute any help or blame on thier own side.

This is a disgusting thing to say, so many of us who are suffering from depression are not in denial and have tried our hardest to get help and heed advice from professionals. You need to educate yourself, because depression makes a lot of people feel worthless and blame themselves for everything too.

[user104658]

If there is a very distinct differential then why do film makers now try more inventive ways to turn peoples stomachs?
It's only acting, yet if there is a physiological response to that acting then how can we be 100% certain there couldn't be a psychological one?

What makes us sick in these instances, is it a response to a visual image that creates extreme anxiety and that manifests physically?
Sounds like how I would describe a symptom of PTSD.

Ive been thinking about this for a long time and that's the only thing I can put it down to then if they affect me and some in a certain way and not others, as a response to past trauma?

I'm not wrong to feel like that nor is it wrong to express that that is how I feel about the subject.Well, "triggering" is obviously a real thing, by its actual original definition... the word has been thrown around so much in recent years its become meaningless... But yes some people will find certain things / certain images bring up memories of past real life experiences and that's why I think it's important for people to be personally aware of the things they can and can't watch. That could apply to any genre though; someone who has been in a near-fatal car crash might have a tough time playing racing games or watching a "Fast & Furious" film... Or, someone who has been badly affected by a cheating partner might be retraumatised by a film about an affair. Ex drug users with films that show heavy drug use. Etc etc.

But it is all linked to real life experiences... No one gets scared of real driving because they saw a bad crash in a film. People don't become suspicious/jealous/controlling in relationships because they watched too many soaps with cheating couples in them. And non-violent people don't turn violent because they played GTA.

I don't think we can start banning and restricting things in sweeping motions based on it affecting some viewers because where does it end? There hypothetically is a point where its "a step too far" - the game LT mentioned is one, and there have in fact been other "rape simulation" games before which obviously should not exist and no publisher would release them - so no mainstream or published indie film or game falls into that category, it's all self-published trash so it's really a completely separate thing and harder to address.

[Kizzy]

Just because it's been overused out of context hijacked by those seeking to denigrate people does not render the term or it's original definition meaningless.
There are still triggers, people can be and are triggered.
A psychological issue that affects how a person may process images or sounds that does not cease to be because you are bored of hearing the word given to describe that manifestation.

Your explanation of what and why to avoid films and/ or games if affected by real life issues is a bit simplistic and in a way obvious. It says nothing of the people who feel how they do but have no such experience. Are all those people sickened by film violence unaware of some childhood phobia?

Again ...nobody has mentioned or advocated banning or restricting anything.
The only point I made was how they affected ME. I appreciate they don't affect you and neither of us can say wit 100% accuracy how they affect other people.

And don't tell me you've never looked under the seat of your plane for a snake... cos well, I just won't believe you.

[Swan]

Just because it's been overused out of context hijacked by those seeking to denigrate people does not render the term or it's original definition meaningless.
There are still triggers, people can be and are triggered.
A psychological issue that affects how a person may process images or sounds that does not cease to be because you are bored of hearing the word given to describe that manifestation.

Your explanation of what and why to avoid films and/ or games if affected by real life issues is a bit simplistic and in a way obvious. It says nothing of the people who feel how they do but have no such experience. Are all those people sickened by film violence unaware of some childhood phobia?

Again ...nobody has mentioned or advocated banning or restricting anything.
The only point I made was how they affected ME. I appreciate they don't affect you and neither of us can say wit 100% accuracy how they affect other people.

And don't tell me you've never looked under the seat of your plane for a snake... cos well, I just won't believe you.

Out of interest, what films from your childhood affected you?

[Scarlett.]

...I don’t know if you’ve watched ‘Don’t **** With Cats...’.../Netflix...but it’s something that I’ve just watched within the last few days...and it kind of fits perfectly with this topic..(..it’s also disturbed me a little..)..desensitisation is a strange thing because a group of people were watching someone being brutally killed/horrifically killed ...and some of the reactions, although of shock...were quite worrying also...how the killer had ‘desensitised’ his audience, if you like...how (..although horrified..)...they were becoming distracted with his ‘cat and mouse’ game...and yes, there was horror and upset that this person being brutally slain was a human... but he had just become ‘A human‘...as opposed to ‘A cat’, you know...?...

...even when someone has done some pretty evil stuff in their lives, it repulses me at the thought of watching a ‘public execution’ and taking any type of pleasure or satisfaction in it...and many people have watched beheadings of captives by terrorist groups, that’s something that I also could never do...


...but I can though...(..when I’m in the vibe..)...shoot the bejesus repeatedly out of zombies and the like in a video game...

With that 'Don't ******* with Cats' its a little more disturbing because it's based on a real story (which I disagree with, giving people like that the spotlight encourages more to do the same)

[user104658]

I've never looked under a plane seat for snakes, but I did once see something where loads of spiders came up from a toilet and yes that's something I think/worry about a lot while I'm poopin'.

[Beso]

This is a disgusting thing to say, so many of us who are suffering from depression are not in denial and have tried our hardest to get help and heed advice from professionals. You need to educate yourself, because depression makes a lot of people feel worthless and blame themselves for everything too.

I know all that.

[Crimson Dynamo]

i remember going to see I spit in your Grave

we all thought it was a real snuff movie and were so excited

[Tom4784]

It's a personal belief, I have to say you're coming across a bit militant about it. Theres nothing written that says you have
To have all your views grounded in science... again it's nothing like antivaxxers or that mindset as there is no risk posed to myself or anyone else due to my views and I don't impose them on anyone else or my childrent. They can have their own view as individuals.

Can you stop trying to make out I'm trying to prevent you from having your own beliefs? I'm not, I'm just opposed to people talking about issues like this when there's actual scientific evidence discounting the idea that similulated violence can inspire someone to be violent who wouldn't have been without playing a game or watching a certain film.

You can have your opinion based on nothing and I can choose to say that I oppose it because science says it's bull****.

[Tom4784]

I've been playing violent games for as long as I remember, I remember my mom letting me and my sister watch the Scream films as soon as they came out on video which would have placed me at around 6-9 for each film. I don't blink at simulated violence because it's not real, I knew what back then and I know it now. However, if I see real violence, when I get exposes to pictures of death and people being explicitly maimed, I get affected by that **** because it's real and I pretty much run away from it because I don't want to see it.

Fictional violence can never be equated to actual violence.

[user104658]

Even really simple things serve as an example of that. Like... You can watc "John Wick" snapping limbs right left and centre and its just a bit of fun movie action... But then I remember in Geordie Shore when they were all in Mexico and Gaz and James did some wrestling thing, they're holding and pushing each other back and James' knee ****ing dislocates or something and his whole leg goes the wrong way and I swear I was almost physically sick. I can picture it right now, it was more horrific than anything I've seen in a "Saw" film or anything like that. Blehhhh.

[Tom4784]

Even really simple things serve as an example of that. Like... You can watc "John Wick" snapping limbs right left and centre and its just a bit of fun movie action... But then I remember in Geordie Shore when they were all in Mexico and Gaz and James did some wrestling thing, they're holding and pushing each other back and James' knee ****ing dislocates or something and his whole leg goes the wrong way and I swear I was almost physically sick. I can picture it right now, it was more horrific than anything I've seen in a "Saw" film or anything like that. Blehhhh.

I recall seeing a viral clip of a football's leg being broken and it still makes me feel faint just remembering it and I could easily watch the same thing happen in a film and not blink because I know it's not real.

[Kizzy]

Can you stop trying to make out I'm trying to prevent you from having your own beliefs? I'm not, I'm just opposed to people talking about issues like this when there's actual scientific evidence discounting the idea that similulated violence can inspire someone to be violent who wouldn't have been without playing a game or watching a certain film.

You can have your opinion based on nothing and I can choose to say that I oppose it because science says it's bull****.

Well that's how it comes across..where the scientific evidence that my thought processes align with antivaxxers as you suggested, that's your opinion based on nothing isn't it?

Again all subconscious thought and feeling cannot be subjected to scientific scrutiny or faith and religion would cease to be.
I will have my bull'sh*t view, you can continue on your mindless quest to be right ;)

[Kizzy]

I've been playing violent games for as long as I remember, I remember my mom letting me and my sister watch the Scream films as soon as they came out on video which would have placed me at around 6-9 for each film. I don't blink at simulated violence because it's not real, I knew what back then and I know it now. However, if I see real violence, when I get exposes to pictures of death and people being explicitly maimed, I get affected by that **** because it's real and I pretty much run away from it because I don't want to see it.

Fictional violence can never be equated to actual violence.

So due to your exposure at a young age do you feel desensitised, what are your thoughts on those who are knocked sick by screen violence?

[Kizzy]

Even really simple things serve as an example of that. Like... You can watc "John Wick" snapping limbs right left and centre and its just a bit of fun movie action... But then I remember in Geordie Shore when they were all in Mexico and Gaz and James did some wrestling thing, they're holding and pushing each other back and James' knee ****ing dislocates or something and his whole leg goes the wrong way and I swear I was almost physically sick. I can picture it right now, it was more horrific than anything I've seen in a "Saw" film or anything like that. Blehhhh.
Yes.. I get that, but you haven't given any thought to those who very much are affected for no obvious reason.

[Kizzy]

Out of interest, what films from your childhood affected you?

I'm trying to think.. I was really scared by darleks they had really scary voices. I always felt safe going to bed though as I knew they couldn't get upstairs :laugh:
I know they can now which had they been then would have been awful.

I wasn't allowed to watch scary things I don't think, maybe that's why I can't handle horror now? The theme music was scary enough, I came downstails once as 'tales from the darkside' was starting, I shot back to bed!

I could just be oversensitive, I have to sleep with my door open and a Chink of light from the toilet haha! What a strange child I am.

So in summary, screen violence/blood/gore nope, game violence/ blood/ gore nope and real life violence/ blood / gore nope.

However... accident or injury and im there, I'm not medically trained but blood/ gore/ sick/ pus does not phase me one one bit.

[Swan]

I'm trying to think.. I was really scared by darleks they had really scary voices. I always felt safe going to bed though as I knew they couldn't get upstairs :laugh:
I know they can now which had they been then would have been awful.

I wasn't allowed to watch scary things I don't think, maybe that's why I can't handle horror now? The theme music was scary enough, I came downstails once as 'tales from the darkside' was starting, I shot back to bed!

I could just be oversensitive, I have to sleep with my door open and a Chink of light from the toilet haha! What a strange child I am.

So in summary, screen violence/blood/gore nope, game violence/ blood/ gore nope and real life violence/ blood / gore nope.

However... accident or injury and im there, I'm not medically trained but blood/ gore/ sick/ pus does not phase me one one bit.

Awww haha i never watched Doctor Who, but i can imagine that being scary as a kid. Also, funny you say about Tales of the Darkside because that theme music is seriously creepy, never heard it as a child but i like it now :D

I remember as a child i would sleep with the light on, two things i saw that terrified me - The original vhs cover of IT in the video shop (that clown scared the hell out of me) and those public service ads/warning on TV, omg did they scare me, i saw one on my little portable TV when i was about 9 late at night, after that i never watched TV in bed again (well i did when i grew up haha).

Getting to your point, i understand what you're saying and it's not for all, im fully against children seeing any type of horror films as it does have some effect, be that small or almost life changing. However, as an adult i think it's fine, watch what you like as far as film goes. But putting say Cannibal Holocaust on in front of a child and you're asking for trouble imo.

[Crimson Dynamo]

well they have age ratings on video games so "they" must be worried that violent games have an effect on kids

[Beso]

Can you stop trying to make out I'm trying to prevent you from having your own beliefs? I'm not, I'm just opposed to people talking about issues like this when there's actual scientific evidence discounting the idea that similulated violence can inspire someone to be violent who wouldn't have been without playing a game or watching a certain film.

You can have your opinion based on nothing and I can choose to say that I oppose it because science says it's bull****.



I say that's not true due to the amount of money generated from film and gaming. ..but people laugh when I say that the industry is to big to rock. .seemingly only governments are above that ridicule.

[Beso]

well they have age ratings on video games so "they" must be worried that violent games have an effect on kids

Only matters with some if it's the fags.

[Marsh.]

well they have age ratings on video games so "they" must be worried that violent games have an effect on kids

Not really. Basically because of adult themes too much for young children.

It's down to a parent what they allow their kids to watch/play.

Not many videogame serial killer children though funnily enough.

[Beso]

Not really. Basically because of adult themes too much for young children.

It's down to a parent what they allow their kids to watch/play.

Not many videogame serial killer children though funnily enough.



you can't really judge how many serial killer children there may be yet cause they ain't all grown up after playing them (not everyone is sad and middle aged already)

[Marsh.]

you can't really judge how many serial killer children there may be yet cause they ain't all grown up after playing them (not everyone is sad and middle aged already)

Not grown up yet?

I think the children from the "video nasty" era are fully grown by now.

[Beso]

Not grown up yet?

I think the children from the "video nasty" era are fully grown by now.

Rubbish. ..2 girls one cup may just be scratching the surface...when was that?

You also have a ridiculed ice bucket challenge that may effect a child.

[Marsh.]

Rubbish. ..2 girls one cup may just be scratching the surface...when was that?

You also have a ridiculed ice bucket challenge that may effect a child.

Sure Jan.

[Tom4784]

Well that's how it comes across..where the scientific evidence that my thought processes align with antivaxxers as you suggested, that's your opinion based on nothing isn't it?

Again all subconscious thought and feeling cannot be subjected to scientific scrutiny or faith and religion would cease to be.
I will have my bull'sh*t view, you can continue on your mindless quest to be right ;)

Anti-vaxxers views aren't based on scientific fact, they eschew science to believe what they believe. You want to believe that video game/film violence has some sort of serious effect on people but you are trying to make out that your gut feeling can stand on an equal level to decades of studies that say otherwise.

I don't need to be on any quest to be right, I simply am because I base my views on established fact. You are entitled to be wrong and from what I can see, you're making full use of that right.

[Tom4784]

So due to your exposure at a young age do you feel desensitised, what are your thoughts on those who are knocked sick by screen violence?

I always knew it wasn't real, blood is just cold dyed syrup (if it warms up, it congeals which is why a lot of actors hate doing gore scenes because they'll be covered in cold liquid for hours on end), organs are gelatin and rubber, body parts are just mannequins etc. It's difficult to be 'desensitised' to something that doesn't exist.

I suppose people who do struggle might have an innate fear of blood or gore or they simply weren't raised like I was, with my parents pretty much telling me how each gore affect was created and how it was just mostly made from stuff I'd find in sweets. The reality of violence is different to that of it's simulated counterpart which is why real violence will always affect me.

I think when you aren't raised like I was, you struggle to differentiate the
special effects from reality when it comes to gore. You obviously know it's not real but there's a part of your subconscious that believes, perhaps.

[Beso]

Sure Jan.



One can't judge ones depression on everyone's depression. ..I cant; nor don't.

[Tom4784]

well they have age ratings on video games so "they" must be worried that violent games have an effect on kids

Except those ratings aren't based on scientific finding. No certificates from all the way back to 1912 when certificates in the UK first became a thing to now are based on anything other than common sense to try to stop kids from watching and playing stuff deemed inappropriate for them. At first the only two certificates were U which is the same as it is today and A for content that was aimed at adults but could be seen by children if accompanied by an adult (the third certificate to be added was one for horror). None of it is based on anything other than common sense, not scientific research.

I can't say for certain but I think video games were always rated with a similar system to that of films in the UK but in America, there wasn't a ratings system in place for games until the early 90's and that was down to nothing more than the video game moral panic that was stirred up by the media and politicians who wanted to scare the middle classes into buying newspapers and voting. It, again, isn't based on scientific findings either.

The reasons why ratings exist as they do are pure sociological rather than scientific.

I say that's not true due to the amount of money generated from film and gaming. ..but people laugh when I say that the industry is to big to rock. .seemingly only governments are above that ridicule.

Because you're only saying it, not because you have reason to, but because you don't want to admit you're wrong and the things you are spouting is pretty much word for word an anti-vaxxer argument.

They refuse to believe science over their own belief because they they think the science is corrupt and they alone know better. You're putting on the tinfoil hat because you think you know better than science because believing in a non-existent conspiracy is easier than it is to admit you are wrong.

There's so many politicians and powerful organisations out there that would love to be able to turn video games into the boogeyman and have the scientific evidence to back it up that, if such evidence did exist, it would be everywhere. It would be common knowledge, the fact it isn't should tell you everything.

[Beso]

Except those ratings aren't based on scientific finding, no certificates back to 1912 when certificates in the UK first became a thing to now are based on anything other than common sense to try to stop kids from watching and playing stuff deemed inappropriate for them. At first the only two certificates were U which is the same as it is today and A for content that was aimed at adults but could be seen by children if accompanied by an adult (the third certificate to be added was one for horror). None of it is based on anything other than common sense, not scientific research.

I can't say for certain but I think video games were always rated with a similar system to that of films in the UK but in America, there wasn't a ratings system in place for games until the early 90's and that was down to nothing more than the video game moral panic that was stirred up by the media and politicians who wanted to scare the middle classes into buying newspapers and voting. It, again, isn't based on scientific findings either.

The reasons why ratings exist as they do are pure sociological rather than scientific.



Because you're only saying it, not because you have reason to, but because you don't want to admit you're wrong and the things you are spouting is pretty much word for word an anti-vaxxer argument.

They refuse to believe science over their own belief because they they think the science is corrupt and they alone know better. You're putting on the tinfoil hat because you think you know better than science because believing in a non-existent conspiracy is easier than it is to admit you are wrong.

There's so many politicians and powerful organisations out there that would love to be able to turn video games into the boogeyman and have the scientific evidence to back it up that, if such evidence did exist, it would be everywhere. It would be common knowledge, the fact it isn't should tell you everything.


I read all the way down to where you mentioned me...then I saw that word again...switched off..zzzzz

[Beso]

People believe pharmacies and pharmaceutical companies will put prices up when Britain leaves the eu...That's much the same..do you believe they will put prices up in the pharmaceutical section?

[Tom4784]

People believe pharmacies and pharmaceutical companies will put prices up when Britain leaves the eu...That's much the same..do you believe they will put prices up in the pharmaceutical section?

Science and economy are two very different things, i'm struggling to get the point you are trying to make and so are you, it seems.

Scienctific fact is scientific fact, you can't seriously argue against it by saying you have a gut feeling.

Economy is a shifting and changing beast, there are no certain facts in how an economy will grow and develop. The fears for the NHS, and the grim analysis are based on the knowledge of the people who work in the NHS and the patterns and history of the NHS and other things that analysts use to make accurate predictions. The NHS is in danger and if it falls, we'll be at risk from a predatory US styled system that's seen big pharma greed hike up prices over 1000% over the past ten years alone despite the fact that nothing has changed in the industry to justify the rising prices.

[Marsh.]

One can't judge ones depression on everyone's depression. ..I cant; nor don't.

Except you just have. :joker:

[Marsh.]

You don't have to have your views on anything grounded in science could also be a religious comparison too couldn't it?

It could, but it's not really the same unless you're talking about things such as "the earth is flat" which are 100% false.

Are you saying anti-vaxxers are religious? :think:

[Kizzy]

Anti-vaxxers views aren't based on scientific fact, they eschew science to believe what they believe. You want to believe that video game/film violence has some sort of serious effect on people but you are trying to make out that your gut feeling can stand on an equal level to decades of studies that say otherwise.

I don't need to be on any quest to be right, I simply am because I base my views on established fact. You are entitled to be wrong and from what I can see, you're making full use of that right.

I haven't suggested they have any 'serious effect'... you're making things up now.
For the final time I am not wrong for explaining how I feel those films affect ME. I'm not trying to make out my gut feeling can stand up to anything...I'm just stating it's ok for me to have a gut feeling, as it impacts on no one but me.

You are obsessing about the views of antivaxxers as if it in any way correlates to what I have stated in this thread. Other than there is no basis in science for either perspective, as there isn't for many things there is no comparison. It's really quite insulting that you keep referring back to that as they are a rather extreme group whos actions could have serious consequences.

A personal opinion on how they affect others then yes I may be wrong for that presumption. I haven't done that ...all ive done is explain how they impact me personally . You have no right to suggest that your knowledge of scientific research into the subject qualifies you to say that I'm wrong for that Dezzy.

[Kizzy]

It could, but it's not really the same unless you're talking about things such as "the earth is flat" which are 100% false.

Are you saying anti-vaxxers are religious? :think:

Nope... I'm saying there is the concept of blind faith and the feeling that something is real for you even though there is no supporting evidence or scientific proof.

[Marsh.]

Nope... I'm saying there is the concept of blind faith and the feeling that something is real for you even though there is no supporting evidence or scientific proof.

But, there's a difference between faith in something of which there is no supporting evidence and faith in something of which there is supporting evidence to the contrary. A belief in God is the former, an anti-vaxxer is the latter.

[Kizzy]

But, there's a difference between faith in something of which there is no supporting evidence and faith in something of which there is supporting evidence to the contrary. A belief in God is the former, an anti-vaxxer is the latter.

Did I mention antivaxxers? We are supposedly discussing violence in film.

[Marsh.]

Did I mention antivaxxers? We are supposedly discussing violence in film.

You responded to a comment I made about the validity of the comparison to an anti-vaxxer. :conf: So, that's what I was referring to.

[Livia]

I think the Bible has produced more killers than violent films and games. I'm all for age restrictions, but that's all.

[Kizzy]

You responded to a comment I made about the validity of the comparison to an anti-vaxxer. :conf: So, that's what I was referring to.



I wasn't comparing antivaxxers to anything, all I have said is thier veiws are nothing like mine.
So nope I'm not saying antivaxxers are religious.

[Marsh.]

But why are antivaxxers relevant to the debate?

Are you asking me to mansplain?

You've taken part in the thread, you know how they came into the discussion. I won't insult you by stating the obvious.

[Marsh.]

I think the Bible has produced more killers than violent films and games. I'm all for age restrictions, but that's all.

Yeah but, no mentally sane person reads the Bible and transforms into a killer. :laugh: They had to have excessive external influence or mental health problems to begin with. The bible became their excuse or outlet. Without the bible, it would've been the Quran. Without the Quran... maybe Harry Potter?

[Livia]

Yeah but, no mentally sane person reads the Bible and transforms into a killer. :laugh: They had to have excessive external influence or mental health problems to begin with. The bible became their excuse or outlet. Without the bible, it would've been the Quran. Without the Quran... maybe Harry Potter?

LOL... yeah, that's true. It's just that so many nutters seem to have some kind of holy book in their hand... but I totally agree.

[Kizzy]

Are you asking me to mansplain?

You've taken part in the thread, you know how they came into the discussion. I won't insult you by stating the obvious.

Oh I amended this post... never mind.

I know how they came to be in the thread yes with a rather unfair and unwarranted comparison to my views.

My definition of blind faith is one where there is no basis for a belief something you feel personally like a religious belief, it has no scientific or rational basis nor is there any physical proof

This can't be true of antivaxxers as it has already been proven that their beliefs that vaccines cause issues has been scientifically discredited.

[Marsh.]

Oh I amended this post... never mind.

I know how they came to be in the thread yes with a rather unfair and unwarranted comparison to my views.

My definition of blind faith is one where there is no basis for a belief something you feel personally like a religious belief, it has no scientific or rational basis nor is there any physical proof

This can't be true of antivaxxers as it has already been proven that their beliefs that vaccines cause issues has been scientifically discredited.

And do you not feel that the decades of research to the contrary has not discredited the movie/video game created psychopath?

Fair enough.

[Kizzy]

And do you not feel that the decades of research to the contrary has not discredited the movie/video game created psychopath?

Fair enough.

That has nothing to do with the issue you just asked me to explain, nothing to do with my personal view and nothing to do with any point I've raised in this thread.

[Marsh.]

That has nothing to do with the issue you just asked me to explain, nothing to do with my personal view and nothing to do with any point I've raised in this thread.

Yes, it does.

The point of anti-vaxxers coming into the discussion was the holding of a belief despite any scientific evidence that points to the contrary.

So, therefore my question to you became, do you not feel there is sufficient evidence to the contrary in regards to violence in games/movies and their effect on people?

If not, fair enough.

[Kizzy]

Yes, it does.

The point of anti-vaxxers coming into the discussion was the holding of a belief despite any scientific evidence that points to the contrary.

So, therefore my question to you became, do you not feel there is sufficient evidence to the contrary in regards to violence in games/movies and their effect on people?

If not, fair enough.

I have answered that too if you read through my responses, I accept that there are studies and the evaluation on the GP... however, that is not my personal experience. It is this very individual perspective that I've drawn on throughout the thread.

[Marsh.]

I have answered that too if you read through my responses, I accept that there are studies and the evaluation on the GP... however, that is not my personal experience. It is this very individual perspective that I've drawn on throughout the thread.

Nobody said it wasn't your own perspective.

[Kizzy]

Nobody said it wasn't your own perspective.

The accusation was that my perspective of my own personal reactions were wrong... because of scientific studies.

Which is why I raised the issue of religion, an accepted personal belief also with no basis in science.

If the religious and vegans are entitled to a personal belief system so am I!

[Marsh.]

The accusation was that my perspective of my own personal reactions were wrong... because of scientific studies.

Which is why I raised the issue of religion, an accepted personal belief also with no basis in science.

If the religious and vegans are entitled to a personal belief system so am I!

Nobody said you weren't entitled to it.

They're allowed to tell you why they think you're wrong due to scientific studies to the contrary.

I would say that the existence of a God not being scientifically proven wrong is not the same thing. You're essentially saying you believe there are psychos created by violent video games/movies but we haven't met them yet.

[Kizzy]

Nobody said you weren't entitled to it.

They're allowed to tell you why they think you're wrong due to scientific studies to the contrary.

I would say that the existence of a God not being scientifically proven wrong is not the same thing. You're essentially saying you believe there are psychos created by violent video games/movies but we haven't met them yet.

And I suppose your not wrong for saying they're right for saying I'm wrong... bore off!

Wrong... I haven't said that in your pedantic orgy you've totally misinterpreted my position, but luckily for you I'm past caring.

[Marsh.]

And I suppose your not wrong for saying they're right for saying I'm wrong... bore off!

Wrong... I haven't said that in your pedantic orgy you've totally misinterpreted my position, but luckily for you I'm past caring.

So, you're allowed a view and nobody else is allowed to comment on your view? :think:

You're allowed to use an analogy, but if anyone else does they're going off topic? :think:

Grow up Kizzy.

[Kizzy]

So, you're allowed a view and nobody else is allowed to comment on your view? :think:

You're allowed to use an analogy, but if anyone else does they're going off topic? :think:

Grow up Kizzy.

Yes I'm allowed a personal belief and nobody has the right to suggest that personal belief is wrong.

This 'analogy' is it the one that compares my personal belief to antivaxxers?
I have explained at length the difference between those.

This is becoming rather insidious, it's gaslighting you do realise that.... I'm being made out to be wrong, like abusive persons or anti science for explaining how this issue impacts on me personally. Not others, not societally, me.

I've said all I have to say in relation to my feelings on how this subject affects me personally, I've explained my stance to the nth degree.

[Tom4784]

Yes, it does.

The point of anti-vaxxers coming into the discussion was the holding of a belief despite any scientific evidence that points to the contrary.

So, therefore my question to you became, do you not feel there is sufficient evidence to the contrary in regards to violence in games/movies and their effect on people?

If not, fair enough.

Yup, that's the point I'm making. I wasn't calling Kizzy an anti-vaxxer, I just wanted to make a point that it's a similar argument that they use, that they value their gut feelings over facts and evidence to the contrary. As I said before, Parm also used a classic anti-vaxxer argument in that he believes experts, studies and anything that goes against his own beliefs is inherently corrupt which is a very common accusation levied at doctors by anti-vaxxers.

At the end of the day, reality and the facts do not support the belief that video games or violent films can turn someone who isn't violent, violent.

[Marsh.]

Yes I'm allowed a personal belief and nobody has the right to suggest that personal belief is wrong.

This 'analogy' is it the one that compares my personal belief to antivaxxers?
I have explained at length the difference between those.

This is becoming rather insidious, it's gaslighting you do realise that.... I'm being made out to be wrong, like abusive persons or anti science for explaining how this issue impacts on me personally. Not others, not societally, me.

I've said all I have to say in relation to my feelings on how this subject affects me personally, I've explained my stance to the nth degree.

Nobody is allowed to suggest your view is wrong and it's gaslighting to say so?

The most ridiculous thing I've read on this forum by a country mile.

Believe what you like Kizzy, nobody has said any different. But if someone holds an opposing view that they believe refutes yours they will post it. That's why it's called the debate forum.

If you want to shout out into the wind and get no response an online forum is not for you. Maybe invest in a megaphone.

[Marsh.]

And btw you've not said anything about how it affects you personally. That's part of the problem, you've offered no back up for your stance on the subject other than a feeling.

This isn't a discussion about religion so a "feeling" isn't really relevant.

[Jessica.]

I completely understand where Marsh is coming from. Having uncommon beliefs such as being anti-vax, a climate change denyer, or a flat earther are all comparable things. It does not mean a single person who agrees with one if those things is the same as the others, they are comparably un-scientific.

[Kizzy]

Yup, that's the point I'm making. I wasn't calling Kizzy an anti-vaxxer, I just wanted to make a point that it's a similar argument that they use, that they value their gut feelings over facts and evidence to the contrary. As I said before, Parm also used a classic anti-vaxxer argument in that he believes experts, studies and anything that goes against his own beliefs is inherently corrupt which is a very common accusation levied at doctors by anti-vaxxers.

At the end of the day, reality and the facts do not support the belief that video games or violent films can turn someone who isn't violent, violent.

I have addressed the difference many times... it's not a similar argument at all, not even nearly.
A personal belief relating to your own pyche is nothing like an ethical stance relating to the health of others.
This 'gut feeling' you keep referring back to is what you are using as a link between my view and theirs? To me that's a bit silly, there are lots of things folk have 'gut feelings' about .. that there's aliens, God , ghosts.. the loch Ness monster!

[Kizzy]

And btw you've not said anything about how it affects you personally. That's part of the problem, you've offered no back up for your stance on the subject other than a feeling.

This isn't a discussion about religion so a "feeling" isn't really relevant.

Ive said nothing but how it affects me personally. ..
Why are feelings only relevant in discussions about religion?

All I can do is comment from my own perspective, and that includes how these films make me feel. Not you, not dezzy, not the cat, me.

[Kizzy]

I completely understand where Marsh is coming from. Having uncommon beliefs such as being anti-vax, a climate change denyer, or a flat earther are all comparable things. It does not mean a single person who agrees with one if those things is the same as the others, they are comparably un-scientific.

That's true, and if I were suggesting my views on video nasties extended into wider society then I too would be unscientific...the simple fact is, I'm not.

[Beso]

https://www.apa.org/about/policy/violent-video-games

[Tom4784]

https://www.apa.org/about/policy/violent-video-games

I'm pretty sure the arguments that were made against this when LT post it still stands.

[Beso]

But films or games can't make a person violent and no amount of twisting or clickbait on your part will change the fact that no such link exists.



When you say arguments against. ..Im assuming this is the post you meant.

Perhaps read the thing.


https://www.apa.org/about/policy/violent-video-games

[Tom4784]

https://www.apa.org/about/policy/violent-video-games

Posting the same link that's already been dealt with in the thread won't work, Parm. You should also read it before you post it because it's not what you think it is.

It's basically saying that gaming is highly popular, there's been a lot of studies with similar results that people have interpreted in different ways despite the results being similar every time. There's little to no conclusions in that article.

Video games or films do not make people violent.

Hell, playing and watching these things certainly has made me or the other people in this thread with similar experiences no less emphatic or prone to violence. I feel faint when confronted with footage of people who have actually been harmed, maimed or killed and it seems like the same is true for other people too but, to piggy back off of TS's point. There's a lot of people who will clutch their their pearls over a video game but are desensitised to dead immigrant children washing up on shore.

I'd rather be unbothered by simulated violence and affected by the real life equivalent then pretend to be offended by simulated violence but be unaffected by witnessing actual death and harm.

[Beso]

Posting the same link that's already been dealt with in the thread won't work, Parm. You should also read it before you post it because it's not what you think it is.

It's basically saying that gaming is highly popular, there's been a lot of studies with similar results that people have interpreted in different ways despite the results being similar every time. There's little to no conclusions in that article.

Video games or films do not make people violent.

Hell, playing and watching these things certainly has made me or the other people in this thread with similar experiences no less emphatic or prone to violence. I feel faint when confronted with footage of people who have actually been harmed, maimed or killed and it seems like the same is true for other people too but, to piggy back off of TS's point. There's a lot of people who will clutch their their pearls over a video game but are desensitised to dead immigrant children washing up on shore.

I'd rather be unbothered by simulated violence and affected by the real life equivalent then pretend to be offended by simulated violence but be unaffected by witnessing actual death and harm.

I posted your previous response to the findings by the American psycholigy association..that is not dealing with it at all...you have rebutted nothing that the findings have said..

[Marsh.]

Ive said nothing but how it affects me personally. ..
Why are feelings only relevant in discussions about religion?

All I can do is comment from my own perspective, and that includes how these films make me feel. Not you, not dezzy, not the cat, me.

I know you can. And all I can do is comment my views on that. Not sure what you're expecting. :unsure:

You having a 'feeling' that these games are no good is not an example of an actual effect of the games but a superstition you have. Apparently, based on no experience you've mentioned.

[Tom4784]

I posted your previous response to the findings by the American psycholigy association..that is not dealing with it at all...you have rebutted nothing that the findings have said..

You've clearly not read your own link or my response well because it doesn't say anything conclusive one way or another, it's just an overview of the studies that have been taken place as well as a review of the media's interpretation but it draws no conclusions of it's own. If you're going to link something, make sure to actually read it first.

Again, nothing you have linked overrides the fact that decades of research has turned up no link between violence in video games and violence in real life. You cannot watch or play something and become violent if you aren't already a violent person. Fictional media cannot inspire a desire to harm and kill in the mind of someone who wasn't already that way inclined, you're essentially blaming triggers (which literally can be anything) instead of looking at the big picture.

[Beso]

You've clearly not read your own link or my response well because it doesn't say anything conclusive one way or another, it's just an overview of the studies that have been taken place as well as a review of the media's interpretation but it draws no conclusions of it's own. If you're going to link something, make sure to actually read it first.

Again, nothing you have linked overrides the fact that decades of research has turned up no link between violence in video games and violence in real life. You cannot watch or play something and become violent if you aren't already a violent person. Fictional media cannot inspire a desire to harm and kill in the mind of someone who wasn't already that way inclined, you're essentially blaming triggers (which literally can be anything) instead of looking at the big picture.

It's actually the findings and recommendations of all those studies.

[Tom4784]

It's actually the findings and recommendations of all those studies.

It is literally just an overview with no conclusions of it's own.

[Kizzy]

I know you can. And all I can do is comment my views on that. Not sure what you're expecting. :unsure:

You having a 'feeling' that these games are no good is not an example of an actual effect of the games but a superstition you have. Apparently, based on no experience you've mentioned.
The op asked for our opinion of video nasties, I gave my opinion of how they affect me..I dont know what you want me to say.

My 'feelings' are a perfect example of how these films affect me....based on all the experiences I've mentioned in this thread. If you can't understand that then that's your issue not mine.

[Marsh.]

The op asked for our opinion of video nasties, I gave my opinion of how they affect me..I dont know what you want me to say.

My 'feelings' are a perfect example of how these films affect me....based on all the experiences I've mentioned in this thread. If you can't understand that then that's your issue not mine.

There is no issue. This back and forth started because you have a problem with people commenting on your views.

Take a deep breath and get some perspective.

[Kizzy]

There is no issue. This back and forth started because you have a problem with people commenting on your views.

Take a deep breath and get some perspective.

If I had a view on how it affected others then I would agree... however I'm not accepting someone saying I'm wrong for how something affects me personally.

You take a deep breath admit you can't manipulate my opinion on that.

[Marsh.]

If I had a view on how it affected others then I would agree... however I'm not accepting someone saying I'm wrong for how something affects me personally.

You take a deep breath admit you can't manipulate my opinion on that.

Kizzy... your first post that started this was about how you believe it affects the psyche.... a direct response to the debate about whether "video nasties" cause violence in children/create killers etc.

It was never about refuting that gory movies make you feel desensitised or squeamish.

You stating "I believe it affects your psyche" is not really something you can opine without experience of it happening within the context of what the thread is discussing.

Video nasties don't sit well with you. That's fine. But that's not really the debate.

[Kizzy]

Kizzy... your first post that started this was about how you believe it affects the psyche.... a direct response to the debate about whether "video nasties" cause violence in children/create killers etc.

It was never about refuting that gory movies make you feel desensitised or squeamish.

You stating "I believe it affects your psyche" is not really something you can opine without experience of it happening within the context of what the thread is discussing.

Video nasties don't sit well with you. That's fine. But that's not really the debate.

Yes mine personally... I didn't refer to anyone else's psyche did I?

[Marsh.]

Yes mine personally... I didn't refer to anyone else's psyche did I?

Right.... and nobody else is allowed an opinion on whether it does affect your psyche using any scientific research or their own experiences or it's gaslighting poor Kizzy. Bore off.

[Kizzy]

Right.... and nobody else is allowed an opinion on whether it does affect your psyche using any scientific research or their own experiences or it's gaslighting poor Kizzy. Bore off.

No... In a word, you don't get to say how or if things affect me strangely.

Jog on

[Marsh.]

No... In a word, you don't get to say how or if things affect me strangely.

Jog on

NOBODY SAID THAT! :facepalm:

Don't join a debate if you just want to chat sh*t and not have anyone respond to it.

[Kizzy]

NOBODY SAID THAT! :facepalm:

Don't join a debate if you just want to chat sh*t and not have anyone respond to it.

Wow that's really rude... how about you stick to your views and stop insulting mine eh?

[Marsh.]

Wow that's really rude...

Yeah, it tends to be how people respond to rudeness.

[user104658]

The op asked for our opinion of video nasties, I gave my opinion of how they affect me..I dont know what you want me to say.

My 'feelings' are a perfect example of how these films affect me....based on all the experiences I've mentioned in this thread. If you can't understand that then that's your issue not mine.

There is no issue. This back and forth started because you have a problem with people commenting on your views.

Take a deep breath and get some perspective.

If I had a view on how it affected others then I would agree... however I'm not accepting someone saying I'm wrong for how something affects me personally.

You take a deep breath admit you can't manipulate my opinion on that.

Kizzy... your first post that started this was about how you believe it affects the psyche.... a direct response to the debate about whether "video nasties" cause violence in children/create killers etc.

It was never about refuting that gory movies make you feel desensitised or squeamish.

You stating "I believe it affects your psyche" is not really something you can opine without experience of it happening within the context of what the thread is discussing.

Video nasties don't sit well with you. That's fine. But that's not really the debate.

Yes mine personally... I didn't refer to anyone else's psyche did I?

Right.... and nobody else is allowed an opinion on whether it does affect your psyche using any scientific research or their own experiences or it's gaslighting poor Kizzy. Bore off.

No... In a word, you don't get to say how or if things affect me strangely.

Jog on

NOBODY SAID THAT! :facepalm:

Don't join a debate if you just want to chat sh*t and not have anyone respond to it.

Wow that's really rude... how about you stick to your views and stop insulting mine eh?

http://i.imgur.com/iRk9MYe.gif

[Marsh.]

:joker:

[Mystic Mock]

But films or games can't make a person violent and no amount of twisting or clickbait on your part will change the fact that no such link exists.

Exactly.

The only thing Films, Video Games, or TV can do is maybe give the troubled person a method on how to attack someone, but that person would have to already be psychologically damaged to begin with.

For example Ammi playing GTA wouldn't turn her into a Prostitute loving Gangster.:joker:

[Marsh.]

For example Ammi playing GTA wouldn't turn her into a Prostitute loving Gangster.:joker:

:skull:

[Mystic Mock]

:skull:

But that's the logic that's being used by some people on here, playing/watching violent content will turn you more aggressive/violent.

The question that needs to be asked is why do millions of people play GTA and have never committed a violent act in their lives? My Ammi comparison is an OTT statement to showcase that if she were to play GTA she wouldn't become violent because of it.

[Kizzy]

Yeah, it tends to be how people respond to rudeness.

Have I suggested you aren't entitled to know your own mind?..no

[Kizzy]

http://i.imgur.com/iRk9MYe.gif

Hey I work nights.. I can dance about like this all night baby.

[Amy Jade]

Honestly if a violent move incites someone to become violent they already have deep rooted issues.

As I mentioned earlier I watch loads of horror, seen some really messed up movies and I am not violent in the least.

[Marsh.]

Honestly if a violent move incites someone to become violent they already have deep rooted issues.

As I mentioned earlier I watch loads of horror, seen some really messed up movies and I am not violent in the least.

*Amy boyfriend cradles a fractured shoulder in the corner*

[Marsh.]

Have I suggested you aren't entitled to know your own mind?..no

Yeah, we get it Kizzy. Horror films make you murderous.

[Amy Jade]

*Amy boyfriend cradles a fractured shoulder in the corner*

Only if he looks at me funny

[Marsh.]

Looks at your what? :eek:

[Kizzy]

Yeah, we get it Kizzy. Horror films make you murderous.

Sigh... I didn't say that, you're just baiting now.

[Marsh.]

Sigh... I didn't say that, you're just baiting now.

You don't get to say I'm baiting. My words are mine, not yours. Don't gaslight me Mrs.

[user104658]

For example Ammi playing GTA wouldn't turn her into a Prostitute loving Gangster.:joker:

She said she'd never go back to that life.

[Swan]

Wow this thread turned into an absolute cluster******

[Kizzy]

You don't get to say I'm baiting. My words are mine, not yours. Don't gaslight me Mrs.

I have a well documented scientific study that proves I do :idc:
Only antivaxxers call people Mrs

[Kizzy]

Wow this thread turned into an absolute cluster******

It's affecting my psyche! :bawling: :bawling:

[Swan]

It's affecting my psyche! :bawling: :bawling:

Hmmm sometimes it's best to just step away from a debate/argument that's going nowhere.

[Mystic Mock]

She said she'd never go back to that life.

:joker:

[Ammi]

...:laugh:...that’s the thing, though...I was already that gangster before, GTA didn’t have any negative influence.../..it distracted me and made me forget my gangster ways for a while, so created a delightful pause, really...gangster is in my blood though, t’is what I am...:pipe:..