Labour MP sends Twitter into meltdown over comments babies are born 'without sex'

[Niamh.]

LABOUR MP Dawn Butler received a furious backlash on Twitter after she claimed "a child is born without sex" during a heated exchange with Richard Madeley on Good Morning Britain.

Ms Butler clashed with Mr Madeley over their definitions of transgender. The ITV Good Morning Britain host stated that when a child is born "they are identified and observed in a particular way." The Labour Party politician hit back saying "a child is born without sex." Ms Butler's comments enraged some Twitter users and they did not hold back.

Mr Madeley asked: "Do you think somebody that embraces transgender but nevertheless decides that there is a biological difference based on chromosomes based on a penis that may not have been removed after surgery, are you saying that person is transphobic?"

Ms Butler replied: "If you’re saying that a trans woman isn’t a woman then there are issues around that.



Ms Butler clashed with Mr Madeley over their definitions of transgender. The ITV Good Morning Britain host stated that when a child is born "they are identified and observed in a particular way." The Labour Party politician hit back saying "a child is born without sex." Ms Butler's comments enraged some Twitter users and they did not hold back.



Diane Abbott squirms as she tries to deny John Bercow bullying claim
Mr Madeley asked: "Do you think somebody that embraces transgender but nevertheless decides that there is a biological difference based on chromosomes based on a penis that may not have been removed after surgery, are you saying that person is transphobic?"

Ms Butler replied: "If you’re saying that a trans woman isn’t a woman then there are issues around that.



"Taking about penises and vaginas doesn’t help the conversation because what you’re saying then is a trans woman isn’t a woman by your own definition."

Mr Madeley said: "You’re confusing the question with an opinion, I don’t hold that opinion at all."

The Labour MP said: "Explain the penis reference that you just referred to."

The Good Morning Britain host responded: "Look when a child is born they are identified and observed in a particular way."

Ms Butler said: "A child is born without sex at the beginning but anyway."

Mr Madeley replied: "I don’t hold these opinions I am wondering why the Labour Party has decided that it is not possible to have a discussion about them and you’re closing the discussion down."

Ms Butler said: "We haven’t decided that you can’t have a discussion about it but the Labour Party should and must be a safe space."

Some Twitter users reacted angrily to Ms Butler's comments.

One user said: "Dawn Butler, a Labour shadow minister: “a child is born without a sex”. This is flat earthery. Where are the male rationalists and scientists exposing this insanity?"

Another tweeted: "How very odd. The sex of each of my five children was clearly recognised and correctly identified by the radiographers at the 20-week scans."

A third Twitter user said: "Dawn Butler says a child is born without sex. This is groundbreaking. In future I guess the midwife will announce, ‘congratulations, it’s a baby.’

"The boundaries of my mind will not stretch far enough to take in the Labour party’s surreal position on so many issues these days."

Another tweeted: "The world has truly gone mad and the Labour Party are leading the way: scary."

A fifth said: "Labour in this current form is finished."

https://www.express.co.uk/showbiz/tv-radio/1243758/Labour-MP-Dawn-Butler-Richard-Madeley-sex-baby-ITV-Good-Morning-Britain-GMB-latest-video?fbclid=IwAR0n1Zzb-CEjIjgczAu8E5dQOTReXIdN3X_JWTcUBLKy0GmAPLsa5k2MBFc

[arista]

Yes Butler MP said it wrong.

[Crimson Dynamo]

A fifth said: "Labour in this current form is finished."

[Liam-]

Oh Dawn

[Nicky91]

''during a heated exchange with Richard Madeley''

yes of course this goes viral then, if you discuss it with that media*****


nevertheless a stupid thing to say

[Livia]

A trans woman is a trans woman. She's not the same as born women. She's worth the same, but she is not the same. The sooner people stop losing their mind when someone says that, the happier everyone will be.

[Oliver_W]

Urgh, why does Labour keep sending its most embarrassing people out to media interviews?

Of course children are born with a biological sex, why even try to deny it? Transwomen will always be biologically male, there's nothing wrong in acknowledging this.

I wonder if she's the best person to be Shadow Minister for Women?

[GoldHeart]

Urgh, why does Labour keep sending its most embarrassing people out to media interviews?

Of course children are born with a biological sex, why even try to deny it? Transwomen will always be biologically male, there's nothing wrong in acknowledging this.

I wonder if she's the best person to be Shadow Minister for Women?

I give up on Labour :facepalm:.

We'll be stuck in a Tory government

[Alf]

The worrying thing is, people actually took the time to go to the polling station and vote for her to represent them.

[GoldHeart]

The worrying thing is, people actually took the time to go to the polling station and vote for her to represent them.

Problem is though some people are going along with the ideology of babies not having a gender or sex , they're calling their babies "theybies" :facepalm: .

[Nicky91]

Problem is though some people are going along with the ideology of babies not having a gender or sex , they're calling their babies "theybies" :facepalm: .

yes that's the problem with some people still thinking they live in middle ages, or because of being extremely religious :facepalm:

[user104658]

People worry about the Tories making legal changes / constituency border changes and power grabs to stay in power forever but at this rate they literally don't have to do anything at all. There is no longer a viable opposition, the UK is an automatic one-party state without that party having to lift a finger. It's very, very worrying.

Labour have made the all-too-common mistake of thinking that "what's loud on twitter" is the same as "what actually has mass appeal". They are falling apart at the seams.

[arista]

1229712700047052802

[arista]

1229667593994330113

[Kizzy]

I'm so disappointed, really conflicted now as to my support... This is one area where I simply cannot support the Labour stance.
Like many I don't agree with the 'sexless' as it for me that suggestion supports the use of puberty delaying drugs.

With both men and women socialisation plays a part. I agree with Germain Greer on that, there's no doubt my views would be seen as transphobic. That's unfortunate as I really am a live and let live person.

I had a conversation with my son recently, where I said I accepted the transgendered as male or female but not men or women and he disagreed.

I don't agree with the term 'cis' either.

[bots]

it's pretty clear that labour have got further to fall yet before they regroup and become a contender for government. I had hoped they would be ready in 5 years, but I think it will most probably be 10 which isn't good for the country, no matter your political stance.

[Niamh.]

1229667593994330113

Typical Arista sexist tweet.........

[Niamh.]

I'm so disappointed, really conflicted now as to my support... This is one area where I simply cannot support the Labour stance.
Like many I don't agree with the 'sexless' as it for me that suggestion supports the use of puberty delaying drugs.

With both men and women socialisation plays a part. I agree with Germain Greer on that, there's no doubt my views would be seen as transphobic. That's unfortunate as I really am a live and let live person.

I had a conversation with my son recently, where I said I accepted the transgendered as male or female but not men or women and he disagreed.

I don't agree with the term 'cis' either.

I agree with you. It seems that this stance Labour have taken that seem to be in favour of gender based rights over sex based rights are causing a lot of people (and labour supporters) concern.

[arista]

Typical Arista sexist tweet.........


No its best Quality TV clip
of a Tweet.

Many are out of focus Tweets


Its Great you put Labour MP,
on the title as that matters to so many.

[Niamh.]

No its best Quality
of a Tweet.

Many are out of focus Tweets


Its Great you put Labour MP,
on the title as that matters to so many.

Sure Arista, nothing at all to do with you wanting to have a dig at women..I believe you

[arista]

Sure Arista, nothing at all to do with you wanting to have a dig at women..I believe you


This is one Labour MP
that spoke wrong.



I hope it gets on Ch4HD news at 7PM tonight

[Mystic Mock]

I give up on Labour :facepalm:.

We'll be stuck in a Tory government

With people like her in the party I wouldn't be surprised.

We desperately need an En Marche situation to happen in this country, it would hopefully give both parties a kick up the backside seeing another party leading the country.

And obviously her comments are ridiculous.

[Withano]

Old people really can’t grasp the difference between sex and gender

[Alf]

Old people really can’t grasp the difference between sex and genderThey've got more important and interesting things to do than care about it.

[Kizzy]

Old people really can’t grasp the difference between sex and gender

Is that rather offensive remark aimed at me?...

[Alf]

Is that rather offensive remark aimed at me?...It sure is, Grandma.

[Niamh.]

Old people really can’t grasp the difference between sex and gender

Biology Vs stereotypes

[arista]

Is that rather offensive remark aimed at me?...

No not you Kizzy
you are not old.


Its all about Alf.

[Withano]

Is that rather offensive remark aimed at me?...

What no. It’s a thread about an old person not understanding the difference between the two.

I haven’t actually read any of the posts here, I just went straight to the reply section after reading the op.

[Tom4784]

Idiot doesn't know what she's talking about. Sex is biological, gender is sociological.

The worrying thing is, people actually took the time to go to the polling station and vote for her to represent them.

I'd be more worried about the millions of people who have lived through ten years of Tory leadership, of harsh cuts to vital services and financial difficulties just to vote for a government led by a known moron just because they want to believe the fairy tales he spouts over the reality of what the past ten years of Tory leadership has done to the country.

Voting for some idiot that can't even tell the difference between sex and gender probably isn't as bad then people going back to the party that hurts them repeatedly just to beg for more.

[GoldHeart]

I'm so disappointed, really conflicted now as to my support... This is one area where I simply cannot support the Labour stance.
Like many I don't agree with the 'sexless' as it for me that suggestion supports the use of puberty delaying drugs.

With both men and women socialisation plays a part. I agree with Germain Greer on that, there's no doubt my views would be seen as transphobic. That's unfortunate as I really am a live and let live person.

I had a conversation with my son recently, where I said I accepted the transgendered as male or female but not men or women and he disagreed.

I don't agree with the term 'cis' either.

Exactly

I watched a video about 2 genders filmed on a college campus , and people got so offended just because not everyone believes there's 20 genders & the non binary thing.

There was also mention of the puberty drugs thing , sounds like absolute child abuse to me :shocked: . Their bodies don't develop properly if they take those things.

[Niamh.]

Exactly

I watched a video about 2 genders filmed on a college campus , and people got so offended just because not everyone believes there's 20 genders & the non binary thing.

There was also mention of the puberty drugs thing , sounds like absolute child abuse to me :shocked: . Their bodies don't develop properly if they take those things.

20 Genders and non binary = People's different personalities

[Zizu]

Idiot doesn't know what she's talking about. Sex is biological, gender is sociological.







I'd be more worried about the millions of people who have lived through ten years of Tory leadership, of harsh cuts to vital services and financial difficulties just to vote for a government led by a known moron just because they want to believe the fairy tales he spouts over the reality of what the past ten years of Tory leadership has done to the country.



Voting for some idiot that can't even tell the difference between sex and gender probably isn't as bad then people going back to the party that hurts them repeatedly just to beg for more.



I hate politics/politicians but Labour are no better / different than the Conservatives imho

We’ve experienced many turbulent times with them both supposedly governing the country.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[GoldHeart]

20 Genders and non binary = People's different personalities

But there keeps being new ones invented. They can't call them genders when there's only 2 genders.

And the girl in the video identified as "non binary" and was aggressive to the guy that disagreed with her, yet someone else called her "she" and didn't seem bothered that the person didn't say "they" .

[Oliver_W]

But there keeps being new ones invented. They can't call them genders when there's only 2 genders.

Gender is between the ears, sex is between the legs.

And there are still only two of each.

[Niamh.]

Gender is between the ears, sex is between the legs.

And there are still only two of each.

I don't think there is such a thing as "gender", just traditionally feminine or male traits, just because a person doesn't follow the specific gender role that society has decided are male and female, doesn't make them born in the wrong body or whatever. That so regressive in trying to tackle sexism and outdated stereotypes

[Crimson Dynamo]

We’ve finally hit peak insanity over trans… haven’t we?

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/life/finally-hit-peak-insanity-trans-havent/

[Niamh.]

We’ve finally hit peak insanity over trans… haven’t we?

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/life/finally-hit-peak-insanity-trans-havent/

You can't read it unless you're subscribed :oh:

[Oliver_W]

I don't think there is such a thing as "gender", just traditionally feminine or male traits, just because a person doesn't follow the specific gender role that society has decided are male and female, doesn't make them born in the wrong body or whatever. That so regressive in trying to tackle sexism and outdated stereotypes

Well there are certain behaviours and inclinations for each gender which are determined by brain structure and neurology and hormones.

[Crimson Dynamo]

You can't read it unless you're subscribed :oh:

These days, you can chart cultural change through public loos.

In Los Angeles, gone are the bold-print doorsigns that say “gender neutral restroom”, complete with baffling stick men/women dressed in the kind of half-skirt, half-trouser ensembles that belong on a Jean Paul Gaultier runway; the interlinked ‘Mars’ and ‘Venus’ symbols with pompous explanatory small print welcoming “everyone, regardless of gender or expression”. Thanks, guys, but it’s a bathroom – none of us are planning to stay long enough to feel the love.

Today, the signs simply read: “We Don’t Care.” Or, my personal favourite: “Whatever. Just wash your hands.”

However, in the UK, when it comes to bathroom signs, there is no such levity. We’re still desperately contorted about trans and gender issues – and a long way from levelling out a debate that, I fear, hasn’t yet reached peak insanity.

I thought we’d peaked last year, when Always, the sanitary towel company, agreed to remove the ‘Venus’ symbol from its wrapping after the trans lobby complained that “not everyone who has periods identifies as a woman”.

I thought we’d peaked when the police were forced to reveal that convicted rapists were allowed to be logged as female when arrested, “if that is how they choose to identify themselves”. When the BBC promoted an educational short film telling nine-year-olds that there were “over 100” genders, that had to be it?

Surely we peaked last January, when former policeman Harry Miller was visited by police after tweeting “transphobic” comments (such as: “I was assigned mammal at birth, but my orientation is fish. Don’t mis-species me”)? Miller claimed that the Humberside Police officer who interviewed him had said he’d committed no crime, “but we need to check your thinking”.

Which is Orwellian enough – but after Miller discovered his “tweet incident” had been entered onto his police record, as a “non-crime hate incident”, he launched legal action so that a court might establish once and for all that he had not broken any law. The police probe was decreed unlawful by the High Court on Friday.

But this is no time to celebrate, thanks to the opposition Labour Party, which, in the midst of its leadership contest, is busy descending into a farcical civil war over transgender rights.

A controversial pledge card calling on the party to expel “transphobic” members has exposed a faultline running through the movement – between and those who sign up wholeheartedly to the trans-activist insistence that “transwomen are women”, and seasoned Left-wing feminists, who worry about proposed reforms to make it simpler to transition legally and, thus, access all-female spaces – such as changing rooms and toilets.

Out there in the Labour heartlands, these are not the issues keeping voters up at night. It’s as if the party has learnt nothing from Trump or Brexit – or from Jo Swinson, the headmistressy and super-woke former Liberal Democrat leader whose election campaign went up in smoke on the altar of transgender ideology.

But all of this pales in importance beside an easily missed news item tucked away in this weekend’s Sunday papers. One headline ran: “NHS endorsing guide for transgender patients that approves puberty blockers and declares anatomy ‘is not always a good guide’ to determining a child’s sex.”

The NHS has already tarnished itself over matters of gender. More than once, the scandal-hit Tavistock Clinic, the country’s only NHS gender identity service for children, has found itself in the eye of the storm after accusations that it was “fast-tracking” young people into changing gender and offering children as young as 11 hormone-blocking drugs. But at least this shockingly proactive approach has been limited to patients within the clinic – until now.

A number of NHS trusts across the south west are to send out a “Supporting Trans People” toolkit, written by trans campaigners and branded with NHS logos, that declares that anatomy “is not always a good guide” to determining a child’s sex. It also condones the use of puberty blockers on adolescents, drugs that are, at present, licensed in the UK only to treat children who start puberty abnormally early, not those just questioning their gender identity.

Both the Royal College of Paediatrics and Child Health and NHS England have ordered national reviews into the ethics of prescribing such treatment.

It’s the inherent contradictions in PC-culture-gone-mad that I can’t get past. Because if you pare down the argument for hormone blockers, it’s all about protecting youngsters’ mental health – a mental health that could understandably suffer if someone felt trapped in the wrong body for years.

So what do we do? We pump them full of drugs that keep them in that state, preventing their natural sex hormones, oestrogen and testosterone, from kicking in.

It’s official: we’ve hit new levels of gender insanity.

[Kizzy]

Those hormone blockers will be the ritalin of the future, a horrible mistake and something that paediatricians should be ashamed for advocating.

[GoldHeart]

Those hormone blockers will be the ritalin of the future, a horrible mistake and something that paediatricians should be ashamed for advocating.

How the hell is that even legal to give to a child??? , an adult can do what they like but a child's body is still developing.

[Marsh.]

"a child is born without sex"

"Taking about penises and vaginas doesn’t help the conversation"

The woman clearly doesn't know what she's talking about.

[Marsh.]

This is one Labour MP
that spoke wrong.

And yet you chose a tweet that didn't just comment on "this one Labour MP" but one that used "this one" as a tool to disparage female MPs.

[Marsh.]

They've got more important and interesting things to do than care about it.

Evidently.

[Tom4784]

I hate politics/politicians but Labour are no better / different than the Conservatives imho

We’ve experienced many turbulent times with them both supposedly governing the country.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

That's a very nothing point to make. We've had the Tories for a ten year stint now and, yes, the Blair era was terrible (but he was also basically a Tory in red so go figure) but to use that as an argument to defend the tories when we've had a decade of **** from them is centrism at it's worst. Both Milliband and Corbyn were very different to Brown and Blair and the new candidates are too, you can't really compare the present to a past era and it's members that have largely lost influence since then.

At the end of the day, people voted for their Tory shackles yet aga9j, that's all that matters.

[arista]

And yet you chose a tweet that didn't just comment on "this one Labour MP" but one that used "this one" as a tool to disparage female MPs.


That tweet
I picked as all the other Tweets
had out of focus "TV Clips"

It starts with that one Labour MP
who makes the error
of saying babies are born without sex.

[Zizu]

That's a very nothing point to make. We've had the Tories for a ten year stint now and, yes, the Blair era was terrible (but he was also basically a Tory in red so go figure) but to use that as an argument to defend the tories when we've had a decade of **** from them is centrism at it's worst. Both Milliband and Corbyn were very different to Brown and Blair and the new candidates are too, you can't really compare the present to a past era and it's members that have largely lost influence since then.



At the end of the day, people voted for their Tory shackles yet aga9j, that's all that matters.



Well I’ve lived through some horrendous times ... I was a youngster when Harold Wilson took charge the first time ... his main ‘achievement’ was to abolish capital punishment something I wonder about nowadays.. these terrorists certainly wouldn’t be being released early and going onto kill innocent people if we had that option open to us ..

He did have something in common with Corbyn though .. people didn’t trust Wilson - not even the Royal family who feared he was a Russian agent .. he seemed to associate with some odd people ( like Corbyn) and was thought by some to be in with the Russian KGB !

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200219/75791d2862cecdf06df552da74e6c70c.jpg


https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200219/522de999970ce183763eb4def04fc335.jpg
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Niamh.]

Well there are certain behaviours and inclinations for each gender which are determined by brain structure and neurology and hormones.

what kind of behaviours and inclinations?

[Niamh.]

These days, you can chart cultural change through public loos.

In Los Angeles, gone are the bold-print doorsigns that say “gender neutral restroom”, complete with baffling stick men/women dressed in the kind of half-skirt, half-trouser ensembles that belong on a Jean Paul Gaultier runway; the interlinked ‘Mars’ and ‘Venus’ symbols with pompous explanatory small print welcoming “everyone, regardless of gender or expression”. Thanks, guys, but it’s a bathroom – none of us are planning to stay long enough to feel the love.

Today, the signs simply read: “We Don’t Care.” Or, my personal favourite: “Whatever. Just wash your hands.”

However, in the UK, when it comes to bathroom signs, there is no such levity. We’re still desperately contorted about trans and gender issues – and a long way from levelling out a debate that, I fear, hasn’t yet reached peak insanity.

I thought we’d peaked last year, when Always, the sanitary towel company, agreed to remove the ‘Venus’ symbol from its wrapping after the trans lobby complained that “not everyone who has periods identifies as a woman”.

I thought we’d peaked when the police were forced to reveal that convicted rapists were allowed to be logged as female when arrested, “if that is how they choose to identify themselves”. When the BBC promoted an educational short film telling nine-year-olds that there were “over 100” genders, that had to be it?

Surely we peaked last January, when former policeman Harry Miller was visited by police after tweeting “transphobic” comments (such as: “I was assigned mammal at birth, but my orientation is fish. Don’t mis-species me”)? Miller claimed that the Humberside Police officer who interviewed him had said he’d committed no crime, “but we need to check your thinking”.

Which is Orwellian enough – but after Miller discovered his “tweet incident” had been entered onto his police record, as a “non-crime hate incident”, he launched legal action so that a court might establish once and for all that he had not broken any law. The police probe was decreed unlawful by the High Court on Friday.

But this is no time to celebrate, thanks to the opposition Labour Party, which, in the midst of its leadership contest, is busy descending into a farcical civil war over transgender rights.

A controversial pledge card calling on the party to expel “transphobic” members has exposed a faultline running through the movement – between and those who sign up wholeheartedly to the trans-activist insistence that “transwomen are women”, and seasoned Left-wing feminists, who worry about proposed reforms to make it simpler to transition legally and, thus, access all-female spaces – such as changing rooms and toilets.

Out there in the Labour heartlands, these are not the issues keeping voters up at night. It’s as if the party has learnt nothing from Trump or Brexit – or from Jo Swinson, the headmistressy and super-woke former Liberal Democrat leader whose election campaign went up in smoke on the altar of transgender ideology.

But all of this pales in importance beside an easily missed news item tucked away in this weekend’s Sunday papers. One headline ran: “NHS endorsing guide for transgender patients that approves puberty blockers and declares anatomy ‘is not always a good guide’ to determining a child’s sex.”

The NHS has already tarnished itself over matters of gender. More than once, the scandal-hit Tavistock Clinic, the country’s only NHS gender identity service for children, has found itself in the eye of the storm after accusations that it was “fast-tracking” young people into changing gender and offering children as young as 11 hormone-blocking drugs. But at least this shockingly proactive approach has been limited to patients within the clinic – until now.

A number of NHS trusts across the south west are to send out a “Supporting Trans People” toolkit, written by trans campaigners and branded with NHS logos, that declares that anatomy “is not always a good guide” to determining a child’s sex. It also condones the use of puberty blockers on adolescents, drugs that are, at present, licensed in the UK only to treat children who start puberty abnormally early, not those just questioning their gender identity.

Both the Royal College of Paediatrics and Child Health and NHS England have ordered national reviews into the ethics of prescribing such treatment.

It’s the inherent contradictions in PC-culture-gone-mad that I can’t get past. Because if you pare down the argument for hormone blockers, it’s all about protecting youngsters’ mental health – a mental health that could understandably suffer if someone felt trapped in the wrong body for years.

So what do we do? We pump them full of drugs that keep them in that state, preventing their natural sex hormones, oestrogen and testosterone, from kicking in.

It’s official: we’ve hit new levels of gender insanity.

Thanks for that.

[Withano]

what kind of behaviours and inclinations?

On average, males have 7x more grey matter than females, and females have 10x more white matter than males, this leads to several behavioural differences and can be seen in frmi scanners. MTF brains very closely resemble a female brain and vice versa.

Neural pathways also differ noticeably, with females having far more links crossing from their right and left brain

This makes men, on average better at motor skills and logical reasoning, whilst making women better at emotional understanding and words.

... and then there’s hormones which also differ between men and women pretty noticeably.

It’s not helpful to pretend gender doesn’t exist. It does. And some male-borns have brains which resemble the typical female brains and vice versa. It’s something that will always happen.

This doesn’t really have anything to do with the OP though. Of course babies have a sex. The labour woman was daft saying that. She probably meant babies don’t have a gender. She would’ve been close to correct.

[Niamh.]

Seems it depends which article/study you read Withano, dont tell me I'm "pretending" anything

[Oliver_W]

Seems it depends which article/study you read Withano, dont tell me I'm "pretending" anything

Have you read any articles or studies which suggest biologically influenced gendered behaviour does not exist?

[Niamh.]

Have you read any articles or studies which suggest biologically influenced gendered behaviour does not exist?

This is a good article
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-00677-x

[Withano]

This is a good article
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-00677-x

Rippon is basically considered a twat amongst her peers for ignoring science tbf - genuinely. You’ve read an article about a book that an idiot wrote. Rippons work is largely dismissed by peers.