Tyson Fury BBC SPorts Personality of the Year 2020 hates gays, Jews and women tho

[Crimson Dynamo]

https://boxrec.com/media/images/thumb/0/04/TysonFury1.jpg/200px-TysonFury1.jpg



So he is nailed on to win that award but its only a few years since he expressed these views:


In a 2015 interview, he compared being gay to paedophilia and claimed that homosexuality is “one of the three things that will lead to the apocalypse”.

He said: “There are only three things that need to be accomplished before the devil comes home. One of them is homosexuality being legal in countries, one of them is abortion and the other one is paedophiles.”

In a 2016 hour-long rant, the boxer made anti-semitic remarks, alongside a series of disturbing comments about rape, bestiality and paedophilia.

He said: “Everyone just do what you can, listen to the government follow everybody like sheep, be brainwashed by all the Zionist, Jewish people who own all the banks, all the papers, all the TV stations.”

Fury also previously said that the “Gay Rights Act 1977”, which does not exist, was backed by supporters of legalising paedophilia.

In an interview which surfaced in 2017, he said: “I have newspaper evidence that suggest that the Gay Rights Act of 1977 backed in favour of paedophilia being legalised in the UK. So how dare I say that, but how dare it be on the national paper…. These are the people, these are now politicians or whatever in the country…”

In the same interview, he added his “personal belief” was that “a woman’s best place is in the kitchen and on her back”.

Fury has denied being homophobic, but has long refused to directly apologise for his comments and in 2018 stormed out of an interview after being challenged on them.

https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2020/02/24/tyson-fury-homophobic-boxer-racist-anti-semitic-sexist-white-house-donald-trump-deontay-wilder/

Should we be lauding this man as a British hero so soon after such views or is it so far in the past as to not matter as much?

[user104658]

Can we call 2015 "so far in the past"? If it had been 2005 (when he was a teenager) then I'd be inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt that he was just a dumb kid mouthing off, but... It was 5 years ago and he was a 26 year old man.

[Cherie]

Your OP is inaccurate poster. He has apologised for those comments, and he was suffering with mental health issues at the time

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/may/16/tyson-fury-aplogises-offensive-comments

I apologise to anyone who may have taken offence at any of my comments,” Fury said in a statement. “I said some things, which may have hurt some people, which as a Christian man is not something I would ever want to do.
“Though it is not an excuse, sometimes the heightened media scrutiny has caused me to act out in public. I mean no harm or disrespect to anyone and I know more is expected of me as an ambassador of British boxing and I promise in future to hold myself up to the highest possible standard.
“Anyone who knows me personally knows that I am in no way a racist or bigot and I hope the public accept this apology.”

[Crimson Dynamo]

Your OP is inaccurate poster. He has apologised for those comments, and he was suffering with mental health issues at the time

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/may/16/tyson-fury-aplogises-offensive-comments

being bi polar is not an excuse for hateful comments

[Cherie]

being bi polar is not an excuse for hateful comments

No but he has apologised, so what more can he do, if he repeats these statements then fair enough, but it appears to have been a one off where he was lashing out?

[Crimson Dynamo]

No but he has apologised, so what more can he do, if he repeats these statements then fair enough, but it appears to have been a one off where he was lashing out?

to be fair he really just apologised if people were upset with what he said. Now as the Heavyweight Champion of the world he really needs to tell people he no longer believes them to be true

But as a "devout Christian" i expect he does

in my opinion

[Cherie]

to be fair he really just apologised if people were upset with what he said. Now as the Heavyweight Champion of the world he really needs to tell people he no longer believes them to be true

But as a "devout Christian" i expect he does

in my opinion

People are allowed to believe what they like and follow their own religion as long as they don't interfere with others, would you like to be told how to think?


As a man of Traveller heritage, Mr Fury has suffered bigotry and racial abuse throughout his life and as such would never wish anyone to suffer the same. He has many friends of a wide range of backgrounds and races and wishes no ill to anyone of any race, religion or sexual orientation.
“Mr Fury is a devout Christian and a family man, however he accepts that in the past he has said things publicly which are misrepresentative of his beliefs and usual good character. He appreciates he has a duty as the Heavyweight Champion of the World. He knows it comes with certain responsibilities and anything he says publicly will be heavily scrutinised.

[Crimson Dynamo]

People are allowed to believe what they like and follow their own religion as long as they don't interfere with others, would you like to be told how to think?


As a man of Traveller heritage, Mr Fury has suffered bigotry and racial abuse throughout his life and as such would never wish anyone to suffer the same. He has many friends of a wide range of backgrounds and races and wishes no ill to anyone of any race, religion or sexual orientation.
“Mr Fury is a devout Christian and a family man, however he accepts that in the past he has said things publicly which are misrepresentative of his beliefs and usual good character. He appreciates he has a duty as the Heavyweight Champion of the World. He knows it comes with certain responsibilities and anything he says publicly will be heavily scrutinised.

As the heavyweight Champion of the World he is not any other person, he is a role model and should be of course held to far higher standards just as he is paid hugely for his job. His pay reflects how many people are interested in what he does and says.

[user104658]

Your OP is inaccurate poster. He has apologised for those comments, and he was suffering with mental health issues at the time

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/may/16/tyson-fury-aplogises-offensive-comments

I apologise to anyone who may have taken offence at any of my comments,” Fury said in a statement. “I said some things, which may have hurt some people, which as a Christian man is not something I would ever want to do.
“Though it is not an excuse, sometimes the heightened media scrutiny has caused me to act out in public. I mean no harm or disrespect to anyone and I know more is expected of me as an ambassador of British boxing and I promise in future to hold myself up to the highest possible standard.
“Anyone who knows me personally knows that I am in no way a racist or bigot and I hope the public accept this apology.”

He's had his knuckles rapped clearly, been essentially ordered to make an apology and to keep his mouth shut in future.

I don't think he should face penalties or be banned from the sport or anything like that - but "sports personality of the year"? It doesn't really seem appropriate IMO. Again, if these had been dumb throwaway comments he made when he was much younger I'd be more inclined to give the benefit of the doubt... but it wasn't, it was only a couple of years ago, as an adult.

[Niamh.]

I did say that in the boxing thread but apparently, he's done some charity work or something so all is forgiven :idc:

[Cherie]

As the heavyweight Champion of the World he is not any other person, he is a role model and should be of course held to far higher standards just as he is paid hugely for his job. His pay reflects how many people are interested in what he does and says.

He's had his knuckles rapped clearly, been essentially ordered to make an apology and to keep his mouth shut in future.

I don't think he should face penalties or be banned from the sport or anything like that - but "sports personality of the year"? It doesn't really seem appropriate IMO. Again, if these had been dumb throwaway comments he made when he was much younger I'd be more inclined to give the benefit of the doubt... but it wasn't, it was only a couple of years ago, as an adult.


He says he was misquoted, and also we don't know what mental state he was in, he has apologised and moved on

He allegedly has donated his 7 million purse from the first Wilder fight to Alcohol and Drug Charities in the UK? learning from your mistakes and championing charities is role model stuff to me, who here hasn't made a mistake in life?

[Cherie]

I did say that in the boxing thread but apparently, he's done some charity work or something so all is forgiven :idc:

Donating 7 million (if he has done) is not a minor gesture

[Niamh.]

Donating 7 million (if he has done) is not a minor gesture

Does it cancel out his views? People generally don't say stuff like that if they don't really believe them to be true.

[thesheriff443]

As the heavyweight Champion of the World he is not any other person, he is a role model and should be of course held to far higher standards just as he is paid hugely for his job. His pay reflects how many people are interested in what he does and says.

His pay is not due to sponsors it’s down to how much draw he has as a fighter how good he is as a fighter where he is in his career and how good his management team are.

Look at how high people hold footballer up, when they are out drinking fighting shagging anything that moves while their wife and kids are at home.

People have a right to there personal beliefs and plenty of people keep there true feelings hidden due to what people with think of them.

He talks a load of crap most of the time but his story of having it all then losing it while trying to cope with his own demons is an amazing achievement especially in the world of boxing.

Every thing Anthony Joshua says is though about, he always pauses before he speaks to think of the right answer.

He has a global brand to think about that includes advertising.

[Niamh.]

Anthony Joshua is decent, respectful person.

Tyson Fury is entitled to his own beliefs and people are entitled to think he's a **** for holding them as well :shrug:

[Cherie]

Does it cancel out his views? People generally don't say stuff like that if they don't really believe them to be true.

No but I think he is trying to make amends, I think we have to take his mental health into account as well, as perhaps not being media savvy, if he says things like that next week, I will have a rethink, I need to watch his ITV thing

[Cherie]

His pay is not due to sponsors it’s down to how much draw he has as a fighter how good he is as a fighter where he is in his career and how good his management team are.

Look at how high people hold footballer up, when they are out drinking fighting shagging anything that moves while their wife and kids are at home.

People have a right to there personal beliefs and plenty of people keep there true feelings hidden due to what people with think of them.

He talks a load of crap most of the time but his story of having it all then losing it while trying to cope with his own demons is an amazing achievement especially in the world of boxing.

Every thing Anthony Joshua says is though about, he always pauses before he speaks to think of the right answer.

He has a global brand to think about that includes advertising.

Good point

[Cherie]

Anthony Joshua is decent, respectful person.

Tyson Fury is entitled to his own beliefs and people are entitled to think he's a **** for holding them as well :shrug:

and Fury is a product of his environment, as far as I know AJ was brought up by his Mum so he will have had different influences in his life

[Cherie]

Its not often LT and Neem are on the same page :oh:

[Crimson Dynamo]

all hail my new Liberal era

:flutter:

[Niamh.]

Its not often LT and Neem are on the same page :oh:

You know what they say about broken clocks Cherie :hehe:

[Niamh.]

and Fury is a product of his environment, as far as I know AJ was brought up by his Mum so he will have had different influences in his life

So that means he gets a pass for all the disgusting stuff he's said? Not in my world. He has a mind of his own

[Cherie]

So that means he gets a pass for all the disgusting stuff he's said? Not in my world. He has a mind of his own

Of course he has, but we have to consider what his education has been compared to AJ if we are going to compare the two

[Cherie]

You know what they say about broken clocks Cherie :hehe:

LT being clocked by a clock

[Niamh.]

Of course he has, but we have to consider what his education has been compared to AJ if we are going to compare the two

Sheriff was the one comparing the two, I just responded to it.

I thought the comments about women were particularly disrespectful considering he would know the sacrifices and hard work that go into training to be a high level athlete and boxer, that's also "his environment" and what he said about fellow boxers (female) was dismissive and disrespectful

LT being clocked by a clock

:smug:

[bots]

the key word here is personality. Sporting achievement gets a tick, but given that personality includes views expressed and example to others ..... that aspect gets a big X.

That being said, it's not a panel that decide the winner, it's the british public, it would be interesting to see if they consider him worthy of the title

[thesheriff443]

Anthony Joshua is decent, respectful person.

Tyson Fury is entitled to his own beliefs and people are entitled to think he's a **** for holding them as well :shrug:

Don’t know why the shrug, my point it’s about one just opens his mouth and let’s the words come out without thinking and one thinks about everything he says not to damage his brand.

Plus people can change and people can change their minds.

Not to long ago you thought the sun shone out of Conor mcgreggors bum, and look how that turd turned out, getting women pregnant behind his partners back and punching pensioners on the sly in pubs.

[Crimson Dynamo]

yes people can change for the good or the bad

[Niamh.]

Don’t know why the shrug, my point it’s about one just opens his mouth and let’s the words come out without thinking and one thinks about everything he says not to damage his brand.

Plus people can change and people can change their minds.

Not to long ago you thought the sun shone out of Conor mcgreggors bum, and look how that turd turned out, getting women pregnant behind his partners back and punching pensioners on the sly in pubs.

Yep that's true and I changed my mind because of stuff he did and said..............that's being consistent, don't you think?

I do need to pick you up on one error though, he did have a DNA test for that baby in Liverpool and it wasn't his. (I'm sure he still cheated on Dee many times though)

[Livia]

Anthony Joshua is decent, respectful person.

Tyson Fury is entitled to his own beliefs and people are entitled to think he's a **** for holding them as well :shrug:

Exactly how I feel.

I always think Anthony Joshua is a testament to his Mum... she did something so right with him.

[Crimson Dynamo]

or maybe they dont but the veil slips

[Niamh.]

Exactly how I feel.

I always think Anthony Joshua is a testament to his Mum... she did something so right with him.

He really is, I would so love him to beat Fury but I don't think he can unfortunately

or maybe they dont but the veil slips

Yeah, honestly I think Conor was always a scumbag but hid it better when he was on his way up, all that Mayweather money and thinking he was untouchable allowed him to relax and be himself I think

[GoldHeart]

A few Boxers seem to act really weird & ignorant, it's obviously too many punches to the head that's affected them mentally :facepalm: . But I don't like Tyson Fury.

[Kazanne]

https://boxrec.com/media/images/thumb/0/04/TysonFury1.jpg/200px-TysonFury1.jpg



So he is nailed on to win that award but its only a few years since he expressed these views:


In a 2015 interview, he compared being gay to paedophilia and claimed that homosexuality is “one of the three things that will lead to the apocalypse”.

He said: “There are only three things that need to be accomplished before the devil comes home. One of them is homosexuality being legal in countries, one of them is abortion and the other one is paedophiles.”

In a 2016 hour-long rant, the boxer made anti-semitic remarks, alongside a series of disturbing comments about rape, bestiality and paedophilia.

He said: “Everyone just do what you can, listen to the government follow everybody like sheep, be brainwashed by all the Zionist, Jewish people who own all the banks, all the papers, all the TV stations.”

Fury also previously said that the “Gay Rights Act 1977”, which does not exist, was backed by supporters of legalising paedophilia.

In an interview which surfaced in 2017, he said: “I have newspaper evidence that suggest that the Gay Rights Act of 1977 backed in favour of paedophilia being legalised in the UK. So how dare I say that, but how dare it be on the national paper…. These are the people, these are now politicians or whatever in the country…”

In the same interview, he added his “personal belief” was that “a woman’s best place is in the kitchen and on her back”.

Fury has denied being homophobic, but has long refused to directly apologise for his comments and in 2018 stormed out of an interview after being challenged on them.

https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2020/02/24/tyson-fury-homophobic-boxer-racist-anti-semitic-sexist-white-house-donald-trump-deontay-wilder/

Should we be lauding this man as a British hero so soon after such views or is it so far in the past as to not matter as much?

I heard this on the radio this morning,They were saying how he seems to have been forgiven but not the likes of Danny Baker and Alistair Stewert, his remarks are very out dated ,he doesn't seem a very nice man.:fist:

[Cherie]

I heard this on the radio this morning,They were saying how he seems to have been forgiven but not the likes of Danny Baker and Alistair Stewert, his remarks are very out dated ,he doesn't seem a very nice man.:fist:

Danny Baker and Alistair Stewert work in the media and should be media savvy, I don't know in what world they would be comparable.



We should be comparing him to Kobe Bryant who comes from the same world who was forgiven for rape with violence

[Niamh.]

Danny Baker and Alistair Stewert work in the media and should be media savvy, I don't know in what world they would be comparable.



We should be comparing him to Kobe Bryant who comes from the same world who was forgiven for rape with violence

Weird how no even mentioned it about him, I didn't hear about that till someone mentioned it on FB and they got torn apart for daring to mention it....what the **** is wrong with people

[Mystic Mock]

https://boxrec.com/media/images/thumb/0/04/TysonFury1.jpg/200px-TysonFury1.jpg



So he is nailed on to win that award but its only a few years since he expressed these views:


In a 2015 interview, he compared being gay to paedophilia and claimed that homosexuality is “one of the three things that will lead to the apocalypse”.

He said: “There are only three things that need to be accomplished before the devil comes home. One of them is homosexuality being legal in countries, one of them is abortion and the other one is paedophiles.”

In a 2016 hour-long rant, the boxer made anti-semitic remarks, alongside a series of disturbing comments about rape, bestiality and paedophilia.

He said: “Everyone just do what you can, listen to the government follow everybody like sheep, be brainwashed by all the Zionist, Jewish people who own all the banks, all the papers, all the TV stations.”

Fury also previously said that the “Gay Rights Act 1977”, which does not exist, was backed by supporters of legalising paedophilia.

In an interview which surfaced in 2017, he said: “I have newspaper evidence that suggest that the Gay Rights Act of 1977 backed in favour of paedophilia being legalised in the UK. So how dare I say that, but how dare it be on the national paper…. These are the people, these are now politicians or whatever in the country…”

In the same interview, he added his “personal belief” was that “a woman’s best place is in the kitchen and on her back”.

Fury has denied being homophobic, but has long refused to directly apologise for his comments and in 2018 stormed out of an interview after being challenged on them.

https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2020/02/24/tyson-fury-homophobic-boxer-racist-anti-semitic-sexist-white-house-donald-trump-deontay-wilder/

Should we be lauding this man as a British hero so soon after such views or is it so far in the past as to not matter as much?

Him and that Folau guy should be best buddies based on their extreme views on Homosexuality.

Being honest though I think that there's more talent and strategy in other Sports compared to Boxing anyway, so even if Fury weren't making all of these prejudice comments I'd still disagree with his win personally, his prejudices towards other groups of people just make me really not want him to be celebrated.

[thesheriff443]

Yep that's true and I changed my mind because of stuff he did and said..............that's being consistent, don't you think?

I do need to pick you up on one error though, he did have a DNA test for that baby in Liverpool and it wasn't his. (I'm sure he still cheated on Dee many times though)

So on the note of changing your mind or opinion of someone they also can change in the way they think.

I think it’s how much you want to invest into someone you don’t know personally.

[smudgie]

So that means he gets a pass for all the disgusting stuff he's said? Not in my world. He has a mind of his own

Indeed, but maybe we should allow for the fact that he is intellectually lacking.
A complete asshole of a man who doesn’t deserve the accolade of Sports personality of the year.

[Livia]

It surprises me that someone from an - for the want of a better word - "ethnic" background, would want to smear others with their prejudice, knowing that they themselves have been on the receiving end.

[user104658]

He says he was misquoted, and also we don't know what mental state he was in, he has apologised and moved on

He allegedly has donated his 7 million purse from the first Wilder fight to Alcohol and Drug Charities in the UK? learning from your mistakes and championing charities is role model stuff to me, who here hasn't made a mistake in life?

Again, I'm not saying that he should be hauled over the coals for it after apologizing or that it should affect his actual career - but winning a prize like sports personality of the year is not an integral part of his career... and IMO, should go to someone else.

[Niamh.]

So on the note of changing your mind or opinion of someone they also can change in the way they think.

I think it’s how much you want to invest into someone you don’t know personally.

I haven't actually changed how I think though, I have judged people by how they've acted and what they've said and when Conor crossed lines in what I personally believe is right or wrong I adjusted my view on him accordingly so not exactly sure what point you think you've proved here..........

[Niamh.]

Indeed, but maybe we should allow for the fact that he is intellectually lacking.
A complete asshole of a man who doesn’t deserve the accolade of Sports personality of the year.

100% agree with you Smudgie

[Tom4784]

Being bipolar doesn't excuse someone from being bigoted and, as TS has said, it wasn't that long ago that he said these things and it's not like he suffered much in the way of consequences for it so the chances of him learning from his mistakes is unlikely.

Sports personality awards should go to people of moral fibre and not enough time has passed especially considering he was childish enough to storm out of interviews two years ago about this subject instead of tackling them head on and showing how much he has purportedly changed.

[Cherie]

I would love to see him win Sports Personality of the year but the GBP will never vote for him, where is the harm in putting him forward

[Mystic Mock]

Danny Baker and Alistair Stewert work in the media and should be media savvy, I don't know in what world they would be comparable.



We should be comparing him to Kobe Bryant who comes from the same world who was forgiven for rape with violence

Kobe Bryant was a rapist?:shocked:

I've not heard or seen one person mention that fact until this thread.:joker:

How many years ago was it supposed to have happened?

[Cherie]

Weird how no even mentioned it about him, I didn't hear about that till someone mentioned it on FB and they got torn apart for daring to mention it....what the **** is wrong with people

Even on this thread it is being ignored, quelle surprise

[Tom4784]

and Fury is a product of his environment, as far as I know AJ was brought up by his Mum so he will have had different influences in his life

Many people are raised in environments tainted by hatred and yet they are not always hateful. That excuse only goes so far, really. Everyone who isn't hateful comes to a realisation that what they were taught were wrong.

I was raised in a deeply racist area yet I'm not racist myself because I came to my own conclusions.

[user104658]

Exactly how I feel.

I always think Anthony Joshua is a testament to his Mum... she did something so right with him.

I've seen AJ in a couple of interviews and I think being honest... a not-small part of it is that he just seems to be a bit brighter than a lot of professional fighters, especially for a heavyweight :shrug:. That's not really intended as an insult to other fighters, nor is it an excuse for anyone to hold ... distastreful ... opinions, just an observation really.

Maybe it is an element though. It's hard to change someone's opinions if they've been ingrained and they don't really have the ability to properly understand what's wrong with it.

[Cherie]

Many people are raised in environments tainted by hatred and yet they are not always hateful. That excuse only goes so far, really. Everyone who isn't hateful comes to a realisation that what they were taught were wrong.

I was raised in a deeply racist area yet I'm not racist myself because I came to my own conclusions.

Apples and oranges, you had a formal education, I doubt Furey had

[Cherie]

Kobe Bryant was a rapist?:shocked:

I've not heard or seen one person mention that fact until this thread.:joker:

How many years ago was it supposed to have happened?

google it, its not supposed!

[Livia]

I've seen AJ in a couple of interviews and I think being honest... a not-small part of it is that he just seems to be a bit brighter than a lot of professional fighters, especially for a heavyweight :shrug:. That's not really intended as an insult to other fighters, nor is it an excuse for anyone to hold ... distastreful ... opinions, just an observation really.

Maybe it is an element though. It's hard to change someone's opinions if they've been ingrained and they don't really have the ability to properly understand what's wrong with it.

Yes, I agree... Boxers aren't usually gifted in the brains department, but like you say, Joshua seems to be very switched on. And he's got good morals and comes across like a gentleman. I wouldn't mind him winning Sports Personality.

[user104658]

Many people are raised in environments tainted by hatred and yet they are not always hateful. That excuse only goes so far, really. Everyone who isn't hateful comes to a realisation that what they were taught were wrong.

This is what I'm talking about, I guess. Someone who has been indoctrinated to a certain mindset (either at home, or socially... it doesn't always come from family) will only ever change that mindset through self-reflection and (frankly) not everyone has, or is capable of, the level of abstract thinking needed for true self-reflection.

I think Fury is "sorry" for his comments... but only in the sense that he knows it's gotten him into hot water. He's vocally sorry because he's been told to "say sorry!", like a toddler for snatching a toy. He doesn't, to me, come across as having any real new understanding of why his comments were wrong. "I know I shouldn't have said that" and "I'm not racist, anyone who knows me will tell ya" are not really good enough to demonstrate that. He hasn't made any real attempt to talk about why he said the things he said, or explain how his thinking is now different. Because it probably isn't.

[Tom4784]

Apples and oranges, you had a formal education, I doubt Furey had

There's plenty of people who are educated and bigotted, Cherie. A school education doesn't cure people of their bigotry otherwise it would be non-existent at this point.

Everyone with a troubled upbringing must come to their own realisations in time, they can't blame their environment and parents forever, at some point it's down to them to change and for excuses to stop.

[Niamh.]

Even on this thread it is being ignored, quelle surprise

very odd

[Mystic Mock]

google it, its not supposed!

I just checked on Wikipedia, ****ting hell he really didn't deny it.:umm2:

[Alf]

He may not win Sports personality anyway. Unless he fights and beats AJ during the year.

It's an olympic year, so there's bound to be some strong contenders there. And if England win the football European Championships, then a football player is likely to win

The BBC has lost all credibility anyway, so this award isn't as prestigious as it used to be.

[user104658]

There's plenty of people who are educated and bigotted, Cherie. A school education doesn't cure people of their bigotry otherwise it would be non-existent at this point.

Everyone with a troubled upbringing must come to their own realisations in time, they can't blame their environment and parents forever, at some point it's down to them to change and for excuses to stop.

I disagree to an extent - some people escape their upbringing but IMO it's not actually all that common and parents (and their parents... etc. etc.) can definitely be "to blame" in a lot of cases. Like I said I don't think everyone IS capable of self-reflection and change... so if they were broken early, they're staying broken.

The caveat is that it's not an "excuse" in the sense that it doesn't somehow nullify that person's words or actions, or entitle them to special consideration... a person is what they are, for a multitude of reasons, and should be considered accordingly. Someone with racist, sexist and bigotted views... someone with a tendency to violence... isn't made any nicer just because there are identifiable reasons they became that way.

Like a less extreme version of the study of serial killers I guess. There are often really obvious, fascinating reasons that they became cold-blooded killers... but that doesn't mean you should forget that they are extremely dangerous.

[arista]

Yes The Church he follows
changed him.

But back then he was Unwell in his mind
So LT is picking on a Sick fella?

[arista]

He may not win Sports personality anyway. Unless he fights and beats AJ during the year.

It's an olympic year, so there's bound to be some strong contenders there. And if England win the football European Championships, then a football player is likely to win

The BBC has lost all credibility anyway, so this award isn't as prestigious as it used to be.

No he AJ has gone Greedy 70/40 deal?

It should be a 50/50 deal.

So back to Terminate Wilder for ever.

[user104658]

Yes The Church he follows
changed him.

But back then he was Unwell in his mind
So LT is picking on a Sick fella?

It's not an excuse. I can accept that he let these views slip in public because he was struggling with his mental health, but not that they magically appeared in his head because of his mental health. He already thought those things, the reasons they slipped out aren't all that important.

There ARE cases where people in mental turmoil will say "the worst things they can think of" purely for effect, self-destructive tendencies, to "watch the world burn" but this doesn't come across as that at all. Not spontaneous or agitated.

[Cherie]

I just checked on Wikipedia, ****ting hell he really didn't deny it.:umm2:

At least you acknowledge it Mock, thank you!

[Cherie]

There's plenty of people who are educated and bigotted, Cherie. A school education doesn't cure people of their bigotry otherwise it would be non-existent at this point.

Everyone with a troubled upbringing must come to their own realisations in time, they can't blame their environment and parents forever, at some point it's down to them to change and for excuses to stop.


Oh right lets not bother with education then seeing as it doesn't matter :umm2: Formal education along with how you are brought up will have a huge bearing on how you turn out, of course there are people who will not be taught, and who are influenced by what happens at home and in their community, and then there are people who cant be helped at all, but we cant deny education doesn't play a part, otherwise why would we bother introducing reading material with same sex parents etc or with diversity and inclusion in education

[Livia]

Yes The Church he follows
changed him.

But back then he was Unwell in his mind
So LT is picking on a Sick fella?

And Jesus's message was Love Each Other. Even I know that. I'm not sure how they could have got that message so skewed.

[bots]

Patiently waiting for the ... it's not his fault, he was a member of the boy scouts :skull:

[Cherie]

I'm still waiting for someone to tell me why Tyson is vilified while Kobe is glorified....

[Alf]

I'm still waiting for someone to tell me why Tyson is vilified while Kobe is glorified....Shall I say it?

[Niamh.]

I'm still waiting for someone to tell me why Tyson is vilified while Kobe is glorified....

Hey I vilify them both :fist:

[user104658]

I'm still waiting for someone to tell me why Tyson is vilified while Kobe is glorified....

Because he's dead? I'm not saying that's "right" but it's the main reason. I'm not sure that needed explaining.

[bots]

Because he's dead? I'm not saying that's "right" but it's the main reason. I'm not sure that needed explaining.

Hmm Jimmy Saville?

[user104658]

Hmm Jimmy Saville?

Not a fair comparison, Saville was weird looking :nono:.

[Beso]

Hmm Jimmy Saville?

:joker:

[Beso]

I'm sure it's easy enough to forgive a man who is sorry for his past, and he is sorry. So let's forgive him.

[Niamh.]

Not a fair comparison, Saville was weird looking :nono:.

It's because Jimmy Saville was a paedo while Kobe was a good looking sports hero and it was only a woman anyway, she's probably a lying slut lbr.............and also because Jimmy Saville is weird looking

[Livia]

I'm not saying anything about Kobe. And the reason for that is, I have no idea who he is......

[bots]

I'm not saying anything about Kobe. And the reason for that is, I have no idea who he is......

yeah, i had never heard of him either.

[Livia]

yeah, i had never heard of him either.

Ah.... not just me then. Good.

[Beso]

I'm not saying anything about Kobe. And the reason for that is, I have no idea who he is......



He's the one that died in the copter crash a few weeks ago....one more dead rapist for the world to rejoice though

[Cherie]

I had never heard of him either before he died, but hey ho

[Cherie]

Because he's dead? I'm not saying that's "right" but it's the main reason. I'm not sure that needed explaining.

lots of people are vilified after they are dead lbr

Micheal Jackson?

[Cherie]

It's because Jimmy Saville was a paedo while Kobe was a good looking sports hero and it was only a woman anyway, she's probably a lying slut lbr.............and also because Jimmy Saville is weird looking

pretty much

[Livia]

Oh right. Him from the helicopter crash. That is all I know about him though.

[Kazanne]

Ah.... not just me then. Good.

3 Livia,I'de not heard of him either

[Cherie]

classic TiBB thread :flutter:

[Crimson Dynamo]

If only Rolf has boxed :(

[Denver]

Jordan Henderson or cancel the shambles of the award

[Liam-]

He’s a raging bigot, no thanks

[Crimson Dynamo]

He’s a raging bigot, no thanks

he is Liverpool's captain :omgno:

[Niamh.]

he is Liverpool's captain :omgno:

:laugh2:

[Kizzy]

He's a personality and a half I'll give him that.. however, unless he retracts those comments I wouldn't say he was a good candidate for any award not specifically linked to his sporting ability.

[thesheriff443]

I haven't actually changed how I think though, I have judged people by how they've acted and what they've said and when Conor crossed lines in what I personally believe is right or wrong I adjusted my view on him accordingly so not exactly sure what point you think you've proved here..........

Not trying to prove anything only that people can change the way they feel about some thing or someone.

[Kizzy]

classic TiBB thread :flutter:

Erm, the party don't start till I walk in....

[user104658]

He's the one that died in the copter crash a few weeks ago....one more dead rapist for the world to rejoice though

I mean, fair enough but three children died in the crash which makes this sort of ... something.

I also think those circumstances are part of the reaction to his death tbf.

[Saph]

Can we call 2015 "so far in the past"? If it had been 2005 (when he was a teenager) then I'd be inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt that he was just a dumb kid mouthing off, but... It was 5 years ago and he was a 26 year old man.

hes 31 now?!?! legit thought he was like 45 :skull:

[Tom4784]

Oh right lets not bother with education then seeing as it doesn't matter :umm2: Formal education along with how you are brought up will have a huge bearing on how you turn out, of course there are people who will not be taught, and who are influenced by what happens at home and in their community, and then there are people who cant be helped at all, but we cant deny education doesn't play a part, otherwise why would we bother introducing reading material with same sex parents etc or with diversity and inclusion in education

What the hell are you blathering on about? Respond to what I'm actually saying and what you wanted me to say. You should probably be more clear about what people are saying before you get on your soapbox, Cherie.

Hatred is hatred, you'll get some people like me who will outgrow their surroundings' small mindedness but others won't. When I was at school, issues of sexuality weren't spoken about, issues of race were barely touched upon and when they were, they weren't exactly hammered home or presented in a way that would change minds.

Newer methods that have been introduced since I left school will probably work much better because it's all about normalising differences but I certainly never had that in school and Tyson is only one year older than I am. We've come a long way in the last ten years or so.

I never said that education didn't work, just that my education didn't really change much because they didn't really tackle these issues much, if at all. It's important to make sure you're clear on what people are saying before you try to jump down their throats.

[Tom4784]

As for Kobe Bryant, I don't really know what happened with him and his past so I'm just gonna do what I do when it comes to Micheal Jackson, wait and see.

[Cherie]

As for Kobe Bryant, I don't really know what happened with him and his past so I'm just gonna do what I do when it comes to Micheal Jackson, wait and see.

lol, it's well documented, he was also find 100k for a homophobic slur, and you went no where near THAT thread, are you a sports fan?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-13075858

[Cherie]

What the hell are you blathering on about? Respond to what I'm actually saying and what you wanted me to say. You should probably be more clear about what people are saying before you get on your soapbox, Cherie.

Hatred is hatred, you'll get some people like me who will outgrow their surroundings' small mindedness but others won't. When I was at school, issues of sexuality weren't spoken about, issues of race were barely touched upon and when they were, they weren't exactly hammered home or presented in a way that would change minds.

Newer methods that have been introduced since I left school will probably work much better because it's all about normalising differences but I certainly never had that in school and Tyson is only one year older than I am. We've come a long way in the last ten years or so.



I never said that education didn't work, just that my education didn't really change much because they didn't really tackle these issues much, if at all. It's important to make sure you're clear on what people are saying before you try to jump down their throats.

As usual I am talking sense, and you have to resort to insults

[user104658]

As for Kobe Bryant, I don't really know what happened with him and his past so I'm just gonna do what I do when it comes to Micheal Jackson, wait and see.

There's not really anything to wait and see, it was all resolved years ago. A hotel worker accused him of rape, he said that in his mind there had been consent. The criminal case was dropped because she ended up not testifying, she took him to civil courts and he settled out of court. He later released a statement reflecting on it still saying that he had mistaken it for consent but could see on reflection after the evidence given in the civil case that he was wrong (essentially, he admitted to it). Nothing more came of it after the lawsuit settlement.

[Cherie]

If only Rolf has boxed :(

Rolf is a paedophile, there is no comparison at all :shrug: This is nearly as bad as comparing him to Danny Baker :hee:

[Cherie]

There's not really anything to wait and see, it was all resolved years ago. A hotel worker accused him of rape, he said that in his mind there had been consent. The criminal case was dropped because she ended up not testifying, she took him to civil courts and he settled out of court. He later released a statement reflecting on it still saying that he had mistaken it for consent but could see on reflection after the evidence given in the civil case that he was wrong (essentially, he admitted to it). Nothing more came of it after the lawsuit settlement.

Yes that looks like consent :umm2:

However, a medical examination appeared to lend support to the woman's case, with a doctor finding lacerations to her vaginal wall, a bruise on her neck and blood in her underwear. Bryant's shirt was also covered in blood, and he told police he'd not explicitly asked for her consent.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-news/kobe-bryants-rape-case-dropped-21375432

[Shaun]

Hasn't Joshua got a big fight this year? I'd imagine he'll take the Sports Personality away from him.

Olympics will also have a huge effect on the winner of it, provided we do well. Not to mention the probability of Hamilton winning F1 again.

I'd forgotten this was a Euros and Olympics year. I'm happy now.

[Tom4784]

lol, it's well documented, he was also find 100k for a homophobic slur, and you went no where near THAT thread, are you a sports fan?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-13075858

I'm not a sports fan at all and I don't live on this site so I don't see every thread. It's odd that you're trying to attack me over this though.

As usual I am talking sense, and you have to resort to insults

Ah, I see, you're in the mood for an argument and you'll try to paint anything I say as an insult. I'm not gonna rise to it, Cherie.

Be better.

[Jordan.]

Also odd that Kobe isn't being given the same consideration Tyson was earlier in the thread :think:

[Tom4784]

There's not really anything to wait and see, it was all resolved years ago. A hotel worker accused him of rape, he said that in his mind there had been consent. The criminal case was dropped because she ended up not testifying, she took him to civil courts and he settled out of court. He later released a statement reflecting on it still saying that he had mistaken it for consent but could see on reflection after the evidence given in the civil case that he was wrong (essentially, he admitted to it). Nothing more came of it after the lawsuit settlement.

Oh, gross.

[Niamh.]

Yes that looks like consent :umm2:

However, a medical examination appeared to lend support to the woman's case, with a doctor finding lacerations to her vaginal wall, a bruise on her neck and blood in her underwear. Bryant's shirt was also covered in blood, and he told police he'd not explicitly asked for her consent.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-news/kobe-bryants-rape-case-dropped-21375432

From what I read she agreed not to testify in the criminal case, if he apologised and she would civilly sue him. She was getting her name and reputation dragged through the mud and facing alot of harassment as often happens to rape victims when the accused is a popular sports star/celebrity. I wouldn't blame any woman in her situation for doing the same, as unfair as it is.

I read that they were saying because she'd had sex that day (consensually with an on/off b/f) that she was a bit of a slapper because if she said yes to one man that day that automatically means she's up for it with anyone.

I also read that after court Kobe said something like "I guess no really does mean no"

[Crimson Dynamo]

Also odd that Kobe isn't being given the same consideration Tyson was earlier in the thread :think:

I think its because no one has heard of him very much? I mean who watches basketball in the UK?

[Withano]

What a ****

[Ammi]

....wasn’t it said that Tyson Fury would win Sports Personality last year, but he didn’t....?...

[Ammi]

...I’m a bit conflicted tbh...he’s staid some pretty grim stuff ...but he’s also seen as quite an inspirational person, so there is a lot of positive in him as a person as well..he’s flawed/he’s complicated/he’s human...I don’t know/conflicted...

[Ammi]

...with Kobe Bryant...I don’t see any comparison to be made whatsoever with any sadness felt for his family over his and Gigi’s death and whether Tyson Fury ‘is deserving or not deserving’ of Sports Personality of the Year...

[Niamh.]

...with Kobe Bryant...I don’t see any comparison to be made whatsoever with any sadness felt for his family over his and Gigi’s death and whether Tyson Fury ‘is deserving or not deserving’ of Sports Personality of the Year...

Nobody was talking about the "sadness of his family" though, it was how he's being lauded as this amazing person when he's actually a rapist.

[Ammi]

...I don’t see that he has been ‘lauded’ specifically though...I think there is great sadness for his and Gigi’s death, for the shock and tragedy of it ..and of the other families on board the plane...for me, it’s very much a sense of imagining the pain of the losses, which would be unbearable...and the touching words and tributes from those who knew him and who have loved him and his families and who feel the loss and the tragedy so deeply...I don’t see any particular ‘lauding’ that would relate to any other aspect of his life...

[Niamh.]

...I don’t see that he has been ‘lauded’ specifically though...I think there is great sadness for his and Gigi’s death, for the shock and tragedy of it ..and of the other families on board the plane...for me, it’s very much a sense of imagining the pain of the losses, which would be unbearable...and the touching words and tributes from those who knew him and who have loved him and his families and who feel the loss and the tragedy so deeply...I don’t see any particular ‘lauding’ that would relate to any other aspect of his life...

Maybe you need a reread of the thread Ammi, "Such a great guy" "a Legend" .....not words I would chose for a rapist but being good at basketball trumps that I guess :shrug:

[Beso]

I mean, fair enough but three children died in the crash which makes this sort of ... something.

I also think those circumstances are part of the reaction to his death tbf.

Let them mourn the rapist then..I ain't.

I will,,and do think about the children everytime I mention his name though...but they didn't need brought up in this thread.:nono:

[Ammi]

....honestly though, Niamh...there are only a very few posts in the thread that referred to him as a ‘legend’ in any way and I would think that they’re quite specific to him as a sportsman and from fans of his specific sport...the majority of thoughts are for his and Gigi’s family and the other families involved in the tragedy...

[Beso]

....wasn’t it said that Tyson Fury would win Sports Personality last year, but he didn’t....?...

2 years ago I think

[Beso]

....honestly though, Niamh...there are only a very few posts in the thread that referred to him as a ‘legend’ in any way and I would think that they’re quite specific to him as a sportsman and from fans of his specific sport...the majority of thoughts are for his and Gigi’s family and the other families involved in the tragedy...

People shouldn't take it upon themselves to mourn people they would have never known..yes it's sad and tragic that families have been torn apart..but that's them.

It can't be healthy to feel sad enough about it that you would continually defend that mourning on a forum.

Unless people have tears streaming down thier faces as they type they should just shut up to be honest..

[Cherie]

I'm not a sports fan at all and I don't live on this site so I don't see every thread. It's odd that you're trying to attack me over this though.



Ah, I see, you're in the mood for an argument and you'll try to paint anything I say as an insult. I'm not gonna rise to it, Cherie.

Be better.

Not a sports fan no, the Kobe thread has been bumped often enough, and it was a huge story that made every media outlet so strange you missed it.

I didn't read the rest of your post after you accused me of 'blatering', and I wont be responding to you again until you can find yourself some manners and a way of responding to my posts without being insulting.

[Ammi]

...no one is continually defending anything, I have no idea what your post is referencing...so I’ll just leave you to it...

[Cherie]

...I don’t see that he has been ‘lauded’ specifically though...I think there is great sadness for his and Gigi’s death, for the shock and tragedy of it ..and of the other families on board the plane...for me, it’s very much a sense of imagining the pain of the losses, which would be unbearable...and the touching words and tributes from those who knew him and who have loved him and his families and who feel the loss and the tragedy so deeply...I don’t see any particular ‘lauding’ that would relate to any other aspect of his life...

I didn't even know who these people were, and I am a sports fan, basketball is very niche, it was a human tragedy for all on board but I don't see the need to gloss over the mans human mistakes just because he had a tragic death.

[bots]

I didn't hear any outpourings of grief when Prince Andrew's pal "hung himself" in prison :idc:

[Ammi]

I didn't even know who these people were, and I am a sports fan, basketball is very niche, it was a human tragedy for all on board but I don't see the need to gloss over the mans human mistakes just because he had a tragic death.

...no one glossed over, I doubt everyone in the thread was aware of all of the aspects of his life...I really don’t understand the connection to this thread...

[Ammi]

I didn't hear any outpourings of grief when Prince Andrew's pal "hung himself" in prison :idc:

....that’s not really relevant either, bots...(.sorry...)...WHATABOUT...etc, etc...

[Jordan.]

...no one glossed over, I doubt everyone in the thread was aware of all of the aspects of his life...I really don’t understand the connection to this thread...

Bringing up Kobe glossed over Tyson it seems.

[Ammi]

Bringing up Kobe glossed over Tyson it seems.

...they’re obviously somehow connected, I just can’t fathom how atm...it’s a bit of a slow day for me...

[Alf]

I didn't hear any outpourings of grief when Prince Andrew's pal "hung himself" in prison :idc:Did he hang himself though? That's debatable.

[Niamh.]

...they’re obviously somehow connected, I just can’t fathom how atm...it’s a bit of a slow day for me...

Lots of names were brought up tbf Ammi. What they have in common is the level of forgiveness people have for bad things they've done or said. personally I don't like Tyson Fury either :shrug:

[bots]

Did he hang himself though? That's debatable.

hence the quotes

[Ammi]

Lots of names were brought up tbf Ammi. What they have in common is the level of forgiveness people have for bad things they've done or said. personally I don't like Tyson Fury either :shrug:

...yeah I get that and the controversy as to whether Tyson Fury is ‘deserving’ or not...but I just don’t see how that ‘deserving’ would apply in any similar way for Kobe Bryant’s tragic death...what he did...?..it doesn’t directly relate so forgiveness doesn’t apply...whereas with the Personality of the Year...?...it’s creating a direct comparison/link with Tyson’s behaviour and receiving the accolade, so deserving does apply ...or is rightly being applied for the purposes of the discussion...

[Beso]

It's a case of words and actoins with Bryant tyson and fury.


Im glad it was fury that just done words.

[Niamh.]

...yeah I get that and the controversy as to whether Tyson Fury is ‘deserving’ or not...but I just don’t see how that ‘deserving’ would apply in any similar way for Kobe Bryant’s tragic death...what he did...?..it doesn’t directly relate so forgiveness doesn’t apply...whereas with the Personality of the Year...?...it’s creating a direct comparison/link with Tyson’s behaviour and receiving the accolade, so deserving does apply ...or is rightly being applied for the purposes of the discussion...

What difference does it make? we're just having a conversation comparing two celebrities and speaking about a rape that's not allowed to be mentioned apparently. And of course that girl that he raped must be feeling really upset watching the world mourn someone who did that to her too

[Ammi]

...No one said it wasn’t allowed to be mentioned, though...I just don’t see any correlation/comparison in it being mentioned in relation to this discussion about Tyson Fury...

[Niamh.]

...No one said it wasn’t allowed to be mentioned, though...I just don’t see any correlation/comparison in it being mentioned in relation to this discussion about Tyson Fury...

Other people do though

[Zizu]

...I’m a bit conflicted tbh...he’s staid some pretty grim stuff ...but he’s also seen as quite an inspirational person, so there is a lot of positive in him as a person as well..he’s flawed/he’s complicated/he’s human...I don’t know/conflicted...



The thing is all the times he was upsetting people left , right and centre he in self destruct mode even considering suicide on a regular basis ..

That tells me that it wasn’t the real Tyson Fury .


This is the real Tyson ...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Zizu]

Nobody was talking about the "sadness of his family" though, it was how he's being lauded as this amazing person when he's actually a rapist.



I read through the online police interviews on the case Bryant case ... very disturbing


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Cherie]

I brought Kobe up as he is a fellow sports man who has done and said not such nice things in the past, I feel its a good comparison, far better than comparing TF to Danny Baker who is media savvy

Kobe was forgiven and TF should be too unless he errs again in which case then no, people in public life do make mistakes

[Ammi]

Other people do though

...yeah I see that ..:laugh:..but unless it was a ‘who is worse’, type comparison then Kobe is not being considered for an accolade, which Tyson Fury allegedly or apparently is...

[Cherie]

...they’re obviously somehow connected, I just can’t fathom how atm...it’s a bit of a slow day for me...

both sports people who have erred in the past?

[Zizu]

I brought Kobe up as he is a fellow sports man who has done and said not such nice things in the past, I feel its a good comparison, far better than comparing TF to Danny Baker who is media savvy



Kobe was forgiven and TF should be too unless he errs again in which case then no, people in public life do make mistakes



Errs again ??

Have you seen any of the case details..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Ammi]

The thing is all the times he was upsetting people left , right and centre he in self destruct mode even considering suicide on a regular basis ..

That tells me that it wasn’t the real Tyson Fury .


This is the real Tyson ...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


...this is the real Tyson Fury as in who, Zizu..?..do you mean he’s someone who doesn’t have the beliefs that he said he did...?...

[Cherie]

Errs again ??

Have you seen any of the case details..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

well yes I have but I don't want anyone to faint on the thread

[thesheriff443]

Maybe you need a reread of the thread Ammi, "Such a great guy" "a Legend" .....not words I would chose for a rapist but being good at basketball trumps that I guess :shrug:

To be fair people did the same when paul walker died who was dating under age girls, he was a legend and all that.

[Shaun]

It's kinda sad that we can't have a discussion about someone's very recent bigotry without resorting to "well at least he isn't a rapist :)"

[thesheriff443]

Tyson was nominated to win the sports personality when he beat klitchco to win the world titles, that when he made his sexist and homophobic remarks.

[Cherie]

It's kinda sad that we can't have a discussion about someone's very recent bigotry without resorting to "well at least he isn't a rapist or a bigot :)"

fixed that for you, and you appear to have missed the point but never mind

[Shaun]

So he didn't say those things? Or does claiming mental health problems absolve him of everything?

[Cherie]

So he didn't say those things? Or does claiming mental health problems absolve him of everything?

Yes he said those things 5 years ago, and has apologised, what are we looking for here, public flogging?

[Shaun]

Edit the post a few more times Cherie and you may eventually get to the stage of having "a point"

[Cherie]

Edit the post a few more times Cherie and you may eventually get to the stage of having "a point"

I edited the second time for a typo :)

what is your point?

[Ammi]

.....lots and lots and lots of sporting personalities have ‘erred in the past’...I still don’t see how whether Tyson Fury should be given this award has any bearing on something that Kobe Bryant did in his past...

[Beso]

He hasn't even said anything that grim considering it's only one man's opinion.

[Cherie]

.....lots and lots and lots of sporting personalities have ‘erred in the past’...I still don’t see how whether Tyson Fury should be given this award has any bearing on something that Kobe Bryant did in his past...

I was drawing a comparison from a recent thread on here, given the comparisons made were Danny Baker and Alistair Stewart again recent threads...you don't seem to have any issue with those comparisons Ammi?

[Crimson Dynamo]

.....lots and lots and lots of sporting personalities have ‘erred in the past’...I still don’t see how whether Tyson Fury should be given this award has any bearing on something that Kobe Bryant did in his past...

the thread is about does what famous sports stars say or do in the past have bearing on how popular they are now - do we forgive male sports stars more

Tyson has said some hateful stuff and now he is lauded as a king. Bryant raped a girl but people ignored that and lauded him as a basketball god.

[Cherie]

He hasn't even said anything that grim considering it's only one man's opinion.

I don't particularly care if he thinks women should be at the sink, I know I wont be so that's that :laugh:

[Crimson Dynamo]

In 1992, Mike Tyson was convicted of rape and sentenced to six years in prison. People love him now and he starred in the hangover film

[Beso]

as a woman I don't particularly care if he thinks women should be at the sink, I know I wont be so that's that :laugh:

He can think what the hell he wants, and air those thoughts as far as I'm concerned..lucky buggers 6ft 80 inches, his wife's frying pan will just about graze his belly button.

Me on the other hand just wouldn't air them...but I should still be allowed to think them..whatever they are.

That's where social media comes in..people are not themselves.

[Ammi]

I was drawing a comparison from a recent thread on here, given the comparisons made were Danny Baker and Alistair Stewart again recent threads...you don't seem to have any issue with those comparisons Ammi?

.... but there was no comparison to be drawn with that thread and this, though...no one has said that what Kobe did was okay in any way...

[Niamh.]

To be fair people did the same when paul walker died who was dating under age girls, he was a legend and all that.Was he? Genuinely didn't know that about him

[Niamh.]

It's kinda sad that we can't have a discussion about someone's very recent bigotry without resorting to "well at least he isn't a rapist :)"I'm not saying that, i dont like Fury either

[Niamh.]

He hasn't even said anything that grim considering it's only one man's opinion.It's all pretty grim

[Black Dagger]

He's a toxic bellend. A talented one but I don't support his work bc he's an awful person and that's that.

[thesheriff443]

Was he? Genuinely didn't know that about him

Yes he was dating a 17 year old when he died.

[Marsh.]

Kobe Bryant was a rapist? :umm2:

[Crimson Dynamo]

Kobe Bryant was a rapist? :umm2:

In July 2003, Bryant was charged with sexually assaulting a 19-year-old employee of the Lodge and Spa at Cordillera in Edwards, Colo. He admitted that he didn’t explicitly ask for consent and initially denied even having sex with the woman. He left a bruise on her neck and drew blood from her skin. After Bryant’s defense team badly intimidated the victim and smeared her reputation, she refused to testify. After the criminal case was dismissed, Bryant issued an apology that said, in part, “After months of reviewing discovery, listening to her attorney, and even her testimony in person, I now understand how she feels that she did not consent to this encounter.” He later settled for an undisclosed sum in a civil suit.

https://time.com/5773151/kobe-bryant-rape-case-complicated-legacy/

[Cherie]

.... but there was no comparison to be drawn with that thread and this, though...no one has said that what Kobe did was okay in any way...

Yes you are right because it was never mentioned at all, all has been forgiven

[Crimson Dynamo]

.....lots and lots and lots of sporting personalities have ‘erred in the past’...I still don’t see how whether Tyson Fury should be given this award has any bearing on something that Kobe Bryant did in his past...

i didn't really have you down as a big basketball fan?

[Ammi]

[/B]

Yes you are right because it was never mentioned at all, all has been forgiven

...apparently it wasn’t ‘forgiven’ though...I’ve read that in 2018, he was dropped from a film festival jury directly because of it..

[Zizu]

...this is the real Tyson Fury as in who, Zizu..?..do you mean he’s someone who doesn’t have the beliefs that he said he did...?...



He has inspired so many groups of people since he got his life ‘back’ .. anyone fighting against depression, anxiety ,alcohol and drugs excesses and even those fighting obesity.

Everyone he meets falls in love with him.. so many stories from giving £7 million away to charity about 18 months ago to little things like buying the live lobsters and releasing them into the harbour ..

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200225/3004c8fb8f154909c6c6945b62765ad8.jpg


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[Denver]

But how much blood money did he donate from WWE?

[Zizu]

So he didn't say those things? Or does claiming mental health problems absolve him of everything?



It does go along way .. . how many people get acquitted when diminished responsibility is proven


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[Zizu]

In 1992, Mike Tyson was convicted of rape and sentenced to six years in prison. People love him now and he starred in the hangover film



I’m still praying for Andy Gray’s return to tv sport .. he made a sexist comment as I recall .


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[Zizu]

In July 2003, Bryant was charged with sexually assaulting a 19-year-old employee of the Lodge and Spa at Cordillera in Edwards, Colo. He admitted that he didn’t explicitly ask for consent and initially denied even having sex with the woman. He left a bruise on her neck and drew blood from her skin. After Bryant’s defense team badly intimidated the victim and smeared her reputation, she refused to testify. After the criminal case was dismissed, Bryant issued an apology that said, in part, “After months of reviewing discovery, listening to her attorney, and even her testimony in person, I now understand how she feels that she did not consent to this encounter.” He later settled for an undisclosed sum in a civil suit.



https://time.com/5773151/kobe-bryant-rape-case-complicated-legacy/



‘blood from skin’ was apparently from the tradesmen’s entrance.... ‘back door’ badly damaged ..


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[Crimson Dynamo]

‘blood from skin’ was apparently from the tradesmen’s entrance.... ‘back door’ badly damaged ..


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GRIM

:skull:

[Beso]

He has inspired so many groups of people since he got his life ‘back’ .. anyone fighting against depression, anxiety ,alcohol and drugs excesses and even those fighting obesity.

Everyone he meets falls in love with him.. so many stories from giving £7 million away to charity about 18 months ago to little things like buying the live lobsters and releasing them into the harbour ..

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200225/3004c8fb8f154909c6c6945b62765ad8.jpg


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**** all that..some gays,women and paedophiles have thier knickers in twist.

[Niamh.]

**** all that..some gays,women and paedophiles have thier knickers in twist.Gays and women, who cares about them

[Black Dagger]

**** all that..some gays,women and paedophiles have thier knickers in twist.

Why are you lumping us in with nonces...

[Kizzy]

**** all that..some gays,women and paedophiles have thier knickers in twist.

So as long as you are chucking your money about you can say what you like?...

[Tom4784]

Not a sports fan no, the Kobe thread has been bumped often enough, and it was a huge story that made every media outlet so strange you missed it.

I didn't read the rest of your post after you accused me of 'blatering', and I wont be responding to you again until you can find yourself some manners and a way of responding to my posts without being insulting.

Ah, so you were looking for reasons to pretend I've insulted you, good to know.

[Marsh.]

In July 2003, Bryant was charged with sexually assaulting a 19-year-old employee of the Lodge and Spa at Cordillera in Edwards, Colo. He admitted that he didn’t explicitly ask for consent and initially denied even having sex with the woman. He left a bruise on her neck and drew blood from her skin. After Bryant’s defense team badly intimidated the victim and smeared her reputation, she refused to testify. After the criminal case was dismissed, Bryant issued an apology that said, in part, “After months of reviewing discovery, listening to her attorney, and even her testimony in person, I now understand how she feels that she did not consent to this encounter.” He later settled for an undisclosed sum in a civil suit.

https://time.com/5773151/kobe-bryant-rape-case-complicated-legacy/

Scum.

[Marsh.]

He has inspired so many groups of people since he got his life ‘back’ .. anyone fighting against depression, anxiety ,alcohol and drugs excesses and even those fighting obesity.

Everyone he meets falls in love with him.. so many stories from giving £7 million away to charity about 18 months ago to little things like buying the live lobsters and releasing them into the harbour ..

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200225/3004c8fb8f154909c6c6945b62765ad8.jpg


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Let's not with the "Millionaire spends money so that erases their crimes" bull.
The kind of sh*t Weinstein is doing at the moment.

[Tom4784]

Why are you lumping us in with nonces...

Because he's desperate for a reaction.

[Zizu]

Let's not with the "Millionaire spends money so that erases their crimes" bull.

The kind of sh*t Weinstein is doing at the moment.



You can’t possibly be comparing the two guys !!




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[Mystic Mock]

To be fair people did the same when paul walker died who was dating under age girls, he was a legend and all that.

That's new information about Paul Walker.:joker:

[Mystic Mock]

Yes he was dating a 17 year old when he died.

Oh.

I thought he'd gone below 16 for a second.:joker:

[Ammi]

...It seems less that anything was dismissed in any way with Kobe Bryant, so much as not known as the alleged assault was 17 years ago, that might be a factor in so many not knowing also...I’m still quite conflicted with Tyson Fury but I guess the interesting timing of this would be Israel Folau, who has just had a very recent, lucrative signing in his sport...this is what was said by the rugby governing body...

"However the moral responsibility for deciding whether to sign a player sits with individual clubs,"
"The player has not been charged or found guilty of any criminal offense.
"However distasteful his previous comments, we don't believe that, under our current regulatory framework, these can prevent his participation in the sport."

...so if a sportsperson’s participation in their sport continues...(...whatever a controversy..)...then surely their participation continues unreservedly and they would still be eligible for any award accolades given by their peers..?....

[Beso]

Why are you lumping us in with nonces...

Cause those are the three subjects tyson fury was discussing...no matter what your mouthy friend says.

[thesheriff443]

...It seems less that anything was dismissed in any way with Kobe Bryant, so much as not known as the alleged assault was 17 years ago, that might be a factor in so many not knowing also...I’m still quite conflicted with Tyson Fury but I guess the interesting timing of this would be Israel Folau, who has just had a very recent, lucrative signing in his sport...this is what was said by the rugby governing body...

"However the moral responsibility for deciding whether to sign a player sits with individual clubs,"
"The player has not been charged or found guilty of any criminal offense.
"However distasteful his previous comments, we don't believe that, under our current regulatory framework, these can prevent his participation in the sport."

...so if a sportsperson’s participation in their sport continues...(...whatever a controversy..)...then surely their participation continues unreservedly and they would still be eligible for any award accolades given by their peers..?....

Ammi, most of the above is llike you are doing a voice over to the wrong film.

Kobe was a big star in America not in the uk, so not well known, the case was a long time ago, add to the fact the case was settled in a civil court and would not of had the coverage a criminal trial would of got, his death with that of his young daughter was seen as a tragedy by the fans of baseball and people who liked him in the film role, add the 17 years between the rape and death and it’s understandable while the rape was not brought back up.

I also don’t think Kobe was the best comparison to Tyson Fury.

The bbc holds these awards and it is not voted for by fellow sports stars or sporting bodies, it’s votes for by the general public.

If you take away what Tyson fury said in his attack 5 years ago then without doubt he should win sports personally of the year.

We are discussing this, but as anyone on here ever voted for any sports personalities?

[user104658]

...so if a sportsperson’s participation in their sport continues...(...whatever a controversy..)...then surely their participation continues unreservedly and they would still be eligible for any award accolades given by their peers..?....

"Eligible", sure, but I'd have some serious questions about the panel making the decision to actually award, if that's the direction they went with it? If it was a case of it being "stripped" or something that's different - an award especially designed for one purpose that just "isn't given" - but that's not the case with the sports personality award... there are plenty of other candidates that it could go to. I'd much prefer he get it at a later date, when he's actually shown some real evidence of change/remorse, beyond a couple of statements that sound like they were written by a PR team and read off a sheet.

Someone with a question mark over their past behaviour who has overcome their demons and can stand up and say "I used to hold some awful opinions and say some awful things - I look back and see things differently now, and here's why ... ..." may well still be deserving of accolades...

Someone who has just said "Wups sorry didn't mean it, wasn't well"? It doesn't look enough like change, to me.

Like I said he's not a criminal or anything, I don't think he should be under any punitive measures or sanctions or anything like that within the sport itself. Even if it was a specific "sport-internal" award for achievements in boxing that would be different. But the "Sports Personality" award isn't just about being good at your chosen sport, it's supposed to be about a bit more than that.

[Niamh.]

Someone with a question mark over their past behaviour who has overcome their demons and can stand up and say "I used to hold some awful opinions and say some awful things - I look back and see things differently now, and here's why ... ..." may well still be deserving of accolades...

Yes agree with that. If someone has a genuine change of heart and really realises how awful and damaging their opinions were then fair enough but his "apology" was just lip service

[thesheriff443]

Someone with a question mark over their past behaviour who has overcome their demons and can stand up and say "I used to hold some awful opinions and say some awful things - I look back and see things differently now, and here's why ... ..." may well still be deserving of accolades...

Yes agree with that. If someone has a genuine change of heart and really realises how awful and damaging their opinions were then fair enough but his "apology" was just lip service

But how many people keep their true feelings hidden, and people think they are so great but deep down they are full of hate.

You can despise your Boss but don’t tell them what you really think because you would lose your job.

Philip Schofield kept his secret for at least 17 years afraid of the consequences.

People have skeletons in their closets.

[Niamh.]

But how many people keep their true feelings hidden, and people think they are so great but deep down they are full of hate.

You can despise your Boss but don’t tell them what you really think because you would lose your job.

Philip Schofield kept his secret for at least 17 years afraid of the consequences.

People have skeletons in their closets.

That has literally nothing to do with the point I made. Tyson Fury made his vile opinions public so therefore everybody knows what they are.

[thesheriff443]

That has literally nothing to do with the point I made. Tyson Fury made his vile opinions public so therefore everybody knows what they are.

You can have an opinion on some one for some thing they have have said but there are plenty of people that are under the radar.

And how do we know people have changed because they say so.

How many criminals have told the parole board they are going straight just to get out of jail.

People can say all sorts of things, it’s weather they truly believe in them is my point.

[Niamh.]

You can have an opinion on some one for some thing they have have said but there are plenty of people that are under the radar.

And how do we know people have changed because they say so.

How many criminals have told the parole board they are going straight just to get out of jail.

People can say all sorts of things, it’s weather they truly believe in them is my point.

I honestly have no idea why you're going on about Philip Schofield and parole boards. Yes people can say whatever they want and yes it's up to you whether you believe them or not, that's literally the point I made, I didn't believe his last "apology"

[thesheriff443]

I honestly have no idea why you're going on about Philip Schofield and parole boards. Yes people can say whatever they want and yes it's up to you whether you believe them or not, that's literally the point I made, I didn't believe his last "apology"

That’s right and even if he did there is no real way of proving he has changed.

So even if apologised you would still hold the same view of him.

People rarely change there minds.

[Niamh.]

That’s right and even if he did there is no real way of proving he has changed.

So even if apologised you would still hold the same view of him.

People rarely change there minds.

So basically all the last few posts from you to me was a long winded way of calling me a liar? Gotcha :laugh:

[thesheriff443]

So basically all the last few posts from you to me was a long winded way of calling me a liar? Gotcha :laugh:

No way am I calling you a liar.

It’s face value, what he said don’t stop you watching his fights.

Christians believe being gay is a sin so I cant see him going back on his faith.

It’s about how much you want to invest in a stranger.

[Alf]

"Eligible", sure, but I'd have some serious questions about the panel making the decision to actually award, if that's the direction they went with it? If it was a case of it being "stripped" or something that's different - an award especially designed for one purpose that just "isn't given" - but that's not the case with the sports personality award... there are plenty of other candidates that it could go to. I'd much prefer he get it at a later date, when he's actually shown some real evidence of change/remorse, beyond a couple of statements that sound like they were written by a PR team and read off a sheet.

Someone with a question mark over their past behaviour who has overcome their demons and can stand up and say "I used to hold some awful opinions and say some awful things - I look back and see things differently now, and here's why ... ..." may well still be deserving of accolades...

Someone who has just said "Wups sorry didn't mean it, wasn't well"? It doesn't look enough like change, to me.

Like I said he's not a criminal or anything, I don't think he should be under any punitive measures or sanctions or anything like that within the sport itself. Even if it was a specific "sport-internal" award for achievements in boxing that would be different. But the "Sports Personality" award isn't just about being good at your chosen sport, it's supposed to be about a bit more than that.Wups?

[Niamh.]

No way am I calling you a liar.

It’s face value, what he said don’t stop you watching his fights.

Christians believe being gay is a sin so I cant see him going back on his faith.

It’s about how much you want to invest in a stranger.

You literally just did though but ok..........

Christian values say a woman's place is on her back too eh?

What do you mean how much I want to invest in a stranger? I'm not investing anything in him, I'm just giving my opinion on the guy, bloody hell

[Livia]

He's a fraction above the people who park their caravans on public land, nick stuff out of people's sheds and leave the place like a pig sty when they leave.

And if he finds that racist or offensive... in five years I will say I was wrong.

[thesheriff443]

You literally just did though but ok..........

Christian values say a woman's place is on her back too eh?

What do you mean how much I want to invest in a stranger? I'm not investing anything in him, I'm just giving my opinion on the guy, bloody hell

Why are you so arsy with me, I’m definitely not calling you a liar.

I’m not afraid to say what I think, I’m not looking for an argument with you we are just talking a boxer who did great things to turn his life around but has said some very stupid things.

Just for the record I don’t have a problem with women being more skilled than me being more intelligent than me or earning more money than me.

Any person with half a brain would realise how narrow minded views of a woman being on her back.

Investment is basically how much a stranger says makes us believe what they are saying is true.

[Niamh.]

Why are you so arsy with me, I’m definitely not calling you a liar.

I’m not afraid to say what I think, I’m not looking for an argument with you we are just talking a boxer who did great things to turn his life around but has said some very stupid things.

Just for the record I don’t have a problem with women being more skilled than me being more intelligent than me or earning more money than me.

Any person with half a brain would realise how narrow minded views of a woman being on her back.

Investment is basically how much a stranger says makes us believe what they are saying is true.

That's not what investment in a person means

[Tom4784]

Someone with a question mark over their past behaviour who has overcome their demons and can stand up and say "I used to hold some awful opinions and say some awful things - I look back and see things differently now, and here's why ... ..." may well still be deserving of accolades...

Yes agree with that. If someone has a genuine change of heart and really realises how awful and damaging their opinions were then fair enough but his "apology" was just lip service

Yup, it was evidenced by him angrily walking out of that interview when they asked him about it. It smacks of him getting annoyed that people keep bringing it up because he did the bare minimum to try and smooth it over.

He hasn't changed one bit, I bet. There's no reason for him to, he barely faced any consequences when it all came out.

[Cherie]

He's a fraction above the people who park their caravans on public land, nick stuff out of people's sheds and leave the place like a pig sty when they leave.

And if he finds that racist or offensive... in five years I will say I was wrong.

I find that a really uncalled for comment

[Livia]

sorry but I find that a really nasty comment

Yes, it is. As nasty as his comments about Jews. And like I said, I'll give it five years and apologise.

[Cherie]

Yes, it is. As nasty as his comments about Jews. And like I said, I'll give it five years and apologise.

You have the benefit of a University education and a formal upbringing, why would you go down to his level?

[Livia]

You have the benefit of a University education and a formal upbringing, why would you go down to his level?

No, I have to stand quietly and suck it up when people like him are anti-Semitic.

[bots]

i don't think the guy is blessed with a lot of intelligence, and it shows. The boxing profession isn't exactly renowned for it's mental prowess.

This brings back to the fore the argument that people lacking intelligence shouldn't be allowed to vote

[Cherie]

No, I have to stand quietly and suck it up when people like him are anti-Semitic.

I am sure you could denigrate him without resorting to stereotyping

[Livia]

I am sure you could denigrate him without resorting to stereotyping


I'm not going to make excuses because he was under educated. I fail to see why you should take offence at a comment I made about him, considering you've fought hard for him in this thread.

And this is just a debate. I love you deeply Cheriebomb. But not in a gay way.

[Cherie]

I'm not going to make excuses because he was under educated. I fail to see why you should take offence at a comment I made about him, considering you've fought hard for him in this thread.

And this is just a debate. I love you deeply Cheriebomb. But not in a gay way.

love you too Liv, which is why I changed my comment which you quoted in a nano second :laugh:

[Livia]

love you too Liv, which is why I changed my comment which you quoted in a nano second :laugh:

I'm like a mantis, me....

[Marsh.]

You can’t possibly be comparing the two guys !!




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Yes, I am when someone thinks that crimes are forgotten because they "spent 7 million". :facepalm:

[Niamh.]

Two rapists? Yes, I am when someone thinks that crime is forgotten because they "spent 7 million". :facepalm:

I don't think Tyson Fury has raped anyone?

[Zizu]

Two rapists? Yes, I am when someone thinks that crime is forgotten because they "spent 7 million". :facepalm:

Tyson’s crime .. was a five minute video clip when he was at his all time lowest ... suicidal in fact .. he was giving his depressed state , exaggerated opinion on how fecked up the world is ..


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[Marsh.]

I don't think Tyson Fury has raped anyone?

Oops, I was talking about Kobe Bryant in the post prior. :joker:

I've changed it now.

[Marsh.]

Tyson’s crime .. was a five minute video clip when he was at his all time lowest ... suicidal in fact .. he was giving his depressed state , exaggerated opinion on how fecked up the world is ..


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Dunno what his depressed state has to do with my post.

I basically said rich people cannot buy their way out of consequences nor erase their crimes by throwing money at it. Or they shouldn't be allowed to.

[Niamh.]

Oops, I was talking about Kobe Bryant in the post prior. :joker:

I've changed it now.

:laugh: I was getting really confused

[Beso]

I'm like a mantis, me....

A womantis :smug:

[Zizu]

Tyson’s crime .. was a five minute video clip when he was at his all time lowest ... suicidal in fact .. he was giving his depressed state , exaggerated opinion on how fecked up the world is ..


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I was just showing that Tyson’s so called crime you referred to couldn’t be compared to Bryant’s


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[Marsh.]

I was just showing that Tyson’s so called crime you referred to couldn’t be compared to Bryant’s


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I wasn't comparing the crimes. I was comparing the "buy their way out of it" mentality. As I explained three times.

[Cherie]

I wasn't comparing the crimes. I was comparing the "buy their way out of it" mentality. As I explained three times.

Two different scenarios entirely, Weinstein was going through a court case when he made payments

Fureys comments were made 5 years ago, and he gave the 7 mil recently so they haven't exactly affected his career as he has fought since :shrug: He didn't need to give away cash at all?

[Zizu]

I wasn't comparing the crimes. I was comparing the "buy their way out of it" mentality. As I explained three times.



But Tyson wasn’t buying out of anything.. that ‘crime’ you referred to had no bearing on his generous gift of £7 million to charity .. he was simply being himself..


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[Zizu]

Two different scenarios entirely, Weinstein was going through a court case when he made payments



Fureys comments were made 5 years ago, and he gave the 7 mil recently so they haven't exactly affected his career as he has fought since :shrug: He didn't need to give away cash at all?



Exactly.. for some reason me and Marshy seem to clash on an awful lot of points ... I can’t decide if they’re constantly being deliberately obtuse or if we just see things from polar opposite angles ..

No really harm done though ..


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[Marsh.]

Stop calling me "Marshy" and "obtuse", you make an awful lot of discussion threads about me rather than the topic (which is against forum rules) yet accuse other people of being rude. Grow up and stick to discussing the topic.

Thanks.

[Marsh.]

Two different scenarios entirely, Weinstein was going through a court case when he made payments

Fureys comments were made 5 years ago, and he gave the 7 mil recently so they haven't exactly affected his career as he has fought since :shrug: He didn't need to give away cash at all?

But Tyson wasn’t buying out of anything.. that ‘crime’ you referred to had no bearing on his generous gift of £7 million to charity .. he was simply being himself..


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For clarification, my post was in response to Zizu's "the real Tyson" posts. A millionaire throwing some cash at a charity doesn't erase their crimes.

So, in comparison to Weintstein, handing money around doesn't necessarily make them good people.

[Cherie]

Marshy is being obtuse I think :hehe:

[Marsh.]

Marshy is being obtuse I think :hehe:

You're not too old for a smack you know?

[Cherie]

You're not too old for a smack you know?

:oh:

[Zizu]

For clarification, my post was in response to Zizu's "the real Tyson" posts. A millionaire throwing some cash at a charity doesn't erase their crimes.

So, in comparison to Weintstein, handing money around doesn't necessarily make them good people.



Once again . .. Tyson hasn’t committed any crimes as such ..


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[Marsh.]

Once again . .. Tyson hasn’t committed any crimes as such ..


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For clarification, my post was in response to Zizu's "the real Tyson" posts. A millionaire throwing some cash at a charity doesn't erase their crimes.

So, in comparison to Weintstein, handing money around doesn't necessarily make them good people.

.

[Zizu]

.



Well handing his £7 million purse to charity certainly doesn’t make Tyson a bad person either


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[Marsh.]

Well handing his £7 million purse to charity certainly doesn’t make Tyson a bad person


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I never said it did. :umm2: The £7 million to charity was your evidence he was a good person, I don't think it is.

[thesheriff443]

I don’t think there is any evidence that Tyson donated the 7 million to charity.

[montblanc]

claimed that homosexuality is “one of the three things that will lead to the apocalypse”.

oh-