UK now has the highest number of Corona deaths in Europe

[Smithy]

The UK now has the highest death toll in Europe from coronavirus after new official figures revealed that more than 32,000 people have died from the virus.

The Office for National Statistics said 29,648 deaths had taken place by 27 April in England and Wales with Covid-19 mentioned in death certificates.

With the addition of deaths in Scotland and Northern Ireland, this takes the UK’s death toll to 32,313, according to calculations by Reuters.

This figure far exceeds the death toll of 29,029 in Italy – until now Europe’s worst-hit country.

Ministers and experts have warned against international comparisons, saying the figure for excess mortality – the number of deaths from all causes that exceed the average for the time of year – is a more meaningful gauge.

The latest ONS figures for the week ending 24 April show there were 21,997 deaths, which is 11,539 more than the average for that week. But the total weekly death toll dipped slightly by 354 death. This was the first decrease in weekly deaths since the start of the outbreak and confirms other figures showing the UK is past the peak of infections.

Terrible

[Denver]

It's all guess work at this point but people are using different statistics to bat the government and try make out they know best when they are just armchair warriors

[Denver]

It's also suggested up to half of Italys deaths were care home deaths but they have not declared them yet

[Cherie]

It's also suggested up to half of Italys deaths were care home deaths but they have not declared them yet

don't worry about how individual countries are counting , and don't worry about the countries under declaring

[Denver]

don't worry about how individual countries are counting , and don't worry about the countries under declaring

Nope aslong as you have a brush to tar the UK it doesnt matter about having correct facts

[Cherie]

Nope aslong as you have a brush to tar the UK it doesnt matter about having correct facts

and don't worry about overcrowding in our biggest cities which people have been complaining about for years but have been called racists for wanting decent services

[Nicky91]

don't worry about how individual countries are counting , and don't worry about the countries under declaring

even weirder is my country Netherlands, not bothered to show us numbers of total recovered people, since we don't feel the need to publish that data :skull:

makes our numbers not very trustworthy too because i feel uncertainty where there is decrease in ICU cases but like my dad said ''maybe some of those die and then also a place becomes available again''

i feel like publishing recoveries is a must, especially when lots lots of countries are doing that, and it seems we dutch are the only ones who don't

[Cherie]

even weirder is my country Netherlands, not bothered to show us numbers of total recovered people, since we don't feel the need to publish that data :skull:

makes our numbers not very trustworthy too because i feel uncertainty where there is decrease in ICU cases but like my dad said ''maybe some of those die and then also a place becomes available again''

i feel like publishing recoveries is a must, especially when lots lots of countries are doing that, and it seems we dutch are the only ones who don't

oh right, no recovery figures is odd

One of the ministers confirmed that deaths in the UK were recorded as Covid even if they died of something else if they tested positive for Covid which I didn't understand at all :shrug:

[Tom4784]

It's all guess work at this point but people are using different statistics to bat the government and try make out they know best when they are just armchair warriors

Always hold a government under the microscope, they work for the people and must be held accountable by the people. Defending a government when they've done wrong is just pointless tribalism.

The government chose to ignore warnings and neglect pre-emptive action and the death rate is a result of that.

[Smithy]

It's all guess work at this point but people are using different statistics to bat the government and try make out they know best when they are just armchair warriors

It's also suggested up to half of Italys deaths were care home deaths but they have not declared them yet

Are you going to keep peddling out these comments constantly? At present we have the highest death toll in Europe. FACT.

This “yeah but Italy MIGHT” is completely irrelevant and it just makes you look like you think the governments complete failure to handle this crisis is ok because Italy might be just as badly hit

[Nicky91]

oh right, no recovery figures is odd

One of the ministers confirmed that deaths in the UK were recorded as Covid even if they died of something else if they tested positive for Covid which I didn't understand at all :shrug:

we dutch might be easing out of lockdown slightly in next few weeks due to good numbers recently

most football teams have resumed training under social distancing rules here

we are also looking into if possible to resume with Tennis, Golf under social distancing measures (since Austria have already resumed that as of yesterday we saw on CNN)

most major events here are closed

bars although under social distancing and hygienic measures can reopen partially so not too crowded just a few people per hour, and also staff needs to be given enough time to clean everything thoroughly before other people go there

[Denver]

Are you going to keep peddling out these comments constantly? At present we have the highest death toll in Europe. FACT.

This “yeah but Italy MIGHT” is completely irrelevant and it just makes you look like you think the governments complete failure to handle this crisis is ok because Italy might be just as badly hit
Italy have no even released any deaths outside of hospitals and neither have Spain so they are not comparable stats what so ever

[Withano]

“THE GOVERNMENT ARE DOING THE BEST THEY CAN” “small businesses can start work again maybes” “THE UK IS HEAVILY POPULATED” “let’s fund adverts to sell our products instead of literally giving the NHS money” “OTHER COUNTRIES ARE BAD AND ARE LYING” “lets **** the numbers so we hit 100k tests for one day only” “CORBYNNNNNNNNNNNN”

It’s been a ****show from start to finish middle. I thought right wing support was a bit blinded in elections and Brexit, but figured each to their own. This is literally about tens of thousands of deaths. I had no idea just how much deceit and darkness people were comfortable with. It’s really sad.

[Denver]

And there is no Italy might Italy is very much likely to add 10+k on to that list

[Denver]

And also nit every death in the UK has been because of the virus they just put everyone caused of death as covid if they had symptoms which is the wrong thing to do and I dont understand why they want to say there is more deaths then there actually is

[Cherie]

This is a bit old but sums up the futility of comparing countries, as there are so many other issues like co-morbidities, population age, the UK is up there with people who have Type II diabetes and obesity, ethnicity, as well as being poor is playing a part

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/24/is-comparing-covid-19-death-rates-across-europe-helpful-

Every day, the statistics bring more grim headlines: “Italian death toll passes 20,000”, “Record UK daily death toll”, “Europe’s fatalities pass 100,000”. Across the world, people await national updates on the coronavirus – and compare their country with others.
The comparison game has been especially marked in Belgium, which on paper has the unhappy title of highest number of Covid-19 deaths per capita in Europe. Belgium – population 11.5 million – has counted at least 6,675 deaths since the start of the outbreak, more than Germany, which is nearly eight times more populous.
But such comparisons can be misleading. Unlike the UK, Italy or Spain, Belgium counts all coronavirus deaths outside hospitals in its daily statistics: deaths in care homes account for 53% of the total. Belgium’s official toll also includes people suspected of having died of coronavirus, without a confirmed diagnosis. Nearly all deaths in care homes (94%) are suspected Covid-19 cases, rather than confirmed – an approach that has led some to complain Belgium is overestimating the number of fatalities

[Denver]

This is a bit old but sums up the futility of comparing countries, as there are so many other issues like co-morbidities, population age, the UK is up there with people who have Type II diabetes and obesity, ethnicity, as well as being poor is playing a part

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/24/is-comparing-covid-19-death-rates-across-europe-helpful-

Every day, the statistics bring more grim headlines: “Italian death toll passes 20,000”, “Record UK daily death toll”, “Europe’s fatalities pass 100,000”. Across the world, people await national updates on the coronavirus – and compare their country with others.
The comparison game has been especially marked in Belgium, which on paper has the unhappy title of highest number of Covid-19 deaths per capita in Europe. Belgium – population 11.5 million – has counted at least 6,675 deaths since the start of the outbreak, more than Germany, which is nearly eight times more populous.
But such comparisons can be misleading. Unlike the UK, Italy or Spain, Belgium counts all coronavirus deaths outside hospitals in its daily statistics: deaths in care homes account for 53% of the total. Belgium’s official toll also includes people suspected of having died of coronavirus, without a confirmed diagnosis. Nearly all deaths in care homes (94%) are suspected Covid-19 cases, rather than confirmed – an approach that has led some to complain Belgium is overestimating the number of fatalities
People saying the UK should have done better but it wasnt until late on when we found out BAME and obesity were major factors in deaths something other countries dont have as much of

[Withano]

.

Offtopic but Einstein definitely did not say or write that :joker:

[Cherie]

Offtopic but Einstein definitely did not say or write that :joker:

Yes I know :umm2: dear me

[Withano]

Yes I know :umm2: dear me

I was talking about your quote in your sig

[Cherie]

I was talking about your quote in your sig

yes I know what you are taking about, I can read :laugh:

[Tom4784]

Governments and parties are not like football clubs, you shouldn't be loyal to them, you should always be questioning them and making sure they are doing what needs to be done and if they don't, you look for a party that will.

This government has walked into the crisis being woefully (and willingly) unprepared. You shouldn't make excuses just because you voted for them or supported them. It doesn't matter if you like them or not, you hold a government accountable when they screw up.

[DouglasS]

It’s not really comparible if certain countries are including all coronavirus deaths (like the U.K.), whereas other European countries are including only specific deaths (aka hospital deaths). Makes the comparison completely pointless.

It’s like comparing the average age of deaths in one country and then comparing it with Only the average age of female who die in another, and then stating It as fact that the female only statistic means that country people live longer, despite knowing that women have a longer lifespan than men, and then stating it as fact. It is not a fact at all smithy

[The Slim Reaper]

Owning those lazy Europeans again and again. Rule Britannia. Just wait till we're forced out on a no deal at the end of the year to exacerbate our economic woes.

[Beso]

I wonder if we have the highest number of survival rates.

[Denver]

Owning those lazy Europeans again and again. Rule Britannia. Just wait till we're forced out on a no deal at the end of the year to exacerbate our economic woes.

You say that like every country in the EU is filthy rich when in reality almost all are poor countries

[Tom4784]

Convincing yourself that other countries have it worse won't help with the problems we have. It's just a distraction tactic really.

[Kizzy]

ONS are said to be the gold standard for this kind of information, if it's an uncomfortable read that's unfortunate, the govt themselves rely on them to reflect social trends.
It's laughable to suggest that the data is skewed as EU countries don't even share variables... there are as many vulnerable groups in every country as here.

[Denver]

I dont understand what the government is getting from inflating the covid deaths unless they plan on suing China, I saw a post from someone saying her dad did not have it and died from Lung Cancer but put his death down as Covid

[Crimson Dynamo]

One of the main reasons why places like India, Pakistan, Bangladesh etc have relatively low figures is because they are poor at reporting and registering deaths as covid

[Denver]

One of the main reasons why places like India, Pakistan, Bangladesh etc have relatively low figures is because they are poor at reporting and registering deaths as covid

Countries are either under reporting or over reporting , I dont think we will ever know the true total for any country

[Smithy]

One of the main reasons why places like India, Pakistan, Bangladesh etc have relatively low figures is because they are poor at reporting and registering deaths as covid

Well they’re not in Europe and their infrastructure/healthcare system is nothing like our own so it seems odd to even think of comparing the two

[Kizzy]

I dont understand what the government is getting from inflating the covid deaths unless they plan on suing China, I saw a post from someone saying her dad did not have it and died from Lung Cancer but put his death down as Covid

That would not be the cause of death that would be organ failure, if he also had covid 19 that would be mentioned on the death certificate.
Cancer kills people in years months and weeks, covid 19 kills in days...it has to be recorded as a contributory factor.

[Smithy]

Convincing yourself that other countries have it worse won't help with the problems we have. It's just a distraction tactic really.

Literally

It’s like people on the Poseidon looking at the Titanic and saying “I’m glad I’m not on that ship” :skull:

[bots]

i wish people would just stop counting the numbers of dead. The measurement means nothing. That's not being callous, it would be just as accurate to count the stars in the sky in each country

[Denver]

That would not be the cause of death that would be organ failure, if he also had covid 19 that would be mentioned on the death certificate.
Cancer kills people in years months and weeks, covid 19 kills in days...it has to be recorded as a contributory factor.

She said he was tested negative yet it was the reason on his death certificate

[Tom4784]

i wish people would just stop counting the numbers of dead. The measurement means nothing. That's not being callous, it would be just as accurate to count the stars in the sky in each country

True, it's the number of infected that really matter but it's still a bad figure to have considering how much warning our government had in advance and such.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Literally

It’s like people on the Poseidon looking at the Titanic and saying “I’m glad I’m not on that ship” :skull:

A lot of people hate Kate Winslet to be fair

[The Slim Reaper]

You say that like every country in the EU is filthy rich when in reality almost all are poor countries

The government spent 100m on no-deal propaganda because they know the impacts of a no-deal will lead to many deaths on it's own, which is why they stockpilied body bags as part of the previous preparation, now add a no deal on to a global pandemic where financially we're going to be (i'll be less sensationalist) struggling, and we're purposefully hurting ourselves even more than we naturally will be.

the Eu will have each other to work with to try and get themselves out of it, we won't because our gove are against things like the human rights act.

[Cherie]

Owning those lazy Europeans again and again. Rule Britannia. Just wait till we're forced out on a no deal at the end of the year to exacerbate our economic woes.

How dare you the Republic is counting care homes :oh:

[The Slim Reaper]

How dare you the Republic is counting care homes :oh:

Only so they know how many bombs they'll need to manufacture.

[Cherie]

Only so they know how many bombs they'll need to manufacture.

:hehe: I will keep you posted, Niamh has the real numbers

[Kizzy]

i wish people would just stop counting the numbers of dead. The measurement means nothing. That's not being callous, it would be just as accurate to count the stars in the sky in each country

How do you suggest we record the spread of the virus in Europe then?

[Kizzy]

She said he was tested negative yet it was the reason on his death certificate

If it was negative there would be no mention of Covid 19 on the death certificate.

[Denver]

If it was negative there would be no mention of Covid 19 on the death certificate.

No they are putting it down on hundreds of death certificate the same as with care homes they are not interested in anything but covid deaths

[Kizzy]

No they are putting it down on hundreds of death certificate the same as with care homes they are not interested in anything but covid deaths

This is pure misinformation ..nobody is falsifying death certificates.

[Denver]

This is pure misinformation ..nobody is falsifying death certificates.

So hundreds of people are just making it up?

[Kizzy]

So hundreds of people are just making it up?

So hundreds of doctors are making up causes of death?

[Denver]

So hundreds of doctors are making up causes of death?

If they dont give a cause of death they have to have an autopsy and they dont have the facilities to deal with thousands of autopsies

[Denver]

It's like you actually think covid is the only possible cause of death since march

[Smithy]

It's like you actually think covid is the only possible cause of death since march

And yet you seem hellbent on blaming every yet death in Italy on covid and expect a lot more

[Denver]

And yet you seem hellbent on blaming every yet death in Italy on covid and expect a lot more

When did I blame every death in Italy on covid? Or do you not understand English when I say they are not added the deaths in the care homes

[Marsh.]

It's all guess work at this point but people are using different statistics to bat the government and try make out they know best when they are just armchair warriors

So when is fair criticism of the government allowed? Maybe you and your omniscience could let us know.

[Denver]

So when is fair criticism of the government allowed? Maybe you and your omniscience could let us know.

You can say it's the worse country at the end when all the facts are out there not just the ones that favour you

[The Slim Reaper]

So when is fair criticism of the government allowed? Maybe you and your omniscience could let us know.

When labour get back in, in about 487 years time.

[Marsh.]

You can say it's the worse country at the end when all the facts are out there not just the ones that favour you

Yes, all the posts you've made in this thread blaming everyone and every thing except the government is based on facts and not unproven hypothesis.
You have no agenda in your constant "haters just wanna hate the government" tripe.

[DouglasS]

Convincing yourself that other countries have it worse won't help with the problems we have. It's just a distraction tactic really.

I mean the whole point of this thread is comparing it to other European countries, People aren’t distracting

[DouglasS]

Well they’re not in Europe and their infrastructure/healthcare system is nothing like our own so it seems odd to even think of comparing the two

So you decide when comparisons are odd/abnormal? So it’s not odd to compare deaths in care homes + deaths in hospitals with the U.K. against solely hospital deaths in other European countries, yet it is completely odd to compare with other non European countries?

[Kizzy]

It's like you actually think covid is the only possible cause of death since march
Who's said that?... :/

[Kizzy]

If they dont give a cause of death they have to have an autopsy and they dont have the facilities to deal with thousands of autopsies

If there is another cause of death then that will be given, for lung cancer it would be organ failure imo. If covid was a contributory factor leading to that happening prematurely then that will be shown

[Smithy]

So you decide when comparisons are odd/abnormal? So it’s not odd to compare deaths in care homes + deaths in hospitals with the U.K. against solely hospital deaths in other European countries, yet it is completely odd to compare with other non European countries?

This is literally so dumb if you want to compare an MEDC to an LEDC go ahead

https://www.mydesigntips.com/wp-content/uploads/10_2-clown.jpg

[DouglasS]

This is literally so dumb if you want to compare an MEDC to an LEDC go ahead

https://www.mydesigntips.com/wp-content/uploads/10_2-clown.jpg

Where have I said they’re comparable? Once again misreading. I’m just pointing out your hypocrisy. And I’d say exactly the same statement back at you in regards to comparing total deaths of the U.K. with Countries only counting hospital deaths and suggesting it as a suitable comparison, go ahead..

https://www.mydesigntips.com/wp-content/uploads/10_2-clown.jpg

[GoldHeart]

These figures come from where?? , we know alot of people have died but just how accurate is it when it comes to deaths from Covid-19.

They tell us we're at the peak and all we hear in the news is more death . I just don't know what to make of it all.

[Tom4784]

I mean the whole point of this thread is comparing it to other European countries, People aren’t distracting

Except they are because they're convincing themselves that other countries have it worse so they can ignore our issues. Accepting that we have the worst death rates in Europe is simply accepting facts as we stand, undermining the data to try to make the UK look favourable with a vague non-factual statement like 'other countries have it worse' is pure distraction tactics.

[Denver]

Except they are because they're convincing themselves that other countries have it worse so they can ignore our issues. Accepting that we have the worst death rates in Europe is simply accepting facts as we stand, undermining the data to try to make the UK look favourable with a vague non-factual statement like 'other countries have it worse' is pure distraction tactics.

No it's the fact we and France are the only countries who are counting deaths in care homes so it's not a fair comparison to go off

[Tom4784]

No it's the fact we and France are the only countries who are counting deaths in care homes so it's not a fair comparison to go off

But all this is motivated by a defensiveness that's ultimately unhelpful. Sure, the stats might not be entirely accurate but the chances that we aren't at the top of the list is slight, let's be real.

Instead of seeking to discredit the list, we should be demanding changes and actions to save lives and prevent us from having such a horrible stat in future.

[Nicky91]

No it's the fact we and France are the only countries who are counting deaths in care homes so it's not a fair comparison to go off

we dutch are counting deaths in care homes few weeks later than they originally passed away

hospital deaths are known immediately, but for care homes there just is that delay

[user104658]

But all this is motivated by a defensiveness that's ultimately unhelpful. Sure, the stats might not be entirely accurate but the chances that we aren't at the top of the list is slight, let's be real.

Actually I think the adjusted stats if they were compiled identically and adjusted for population size across Europe, it would show that all of the larger countries with the exception of Germany have roughly the same figures across the board.

At the absolute minimum, directly comparing a flat figure for a country with 65 million people to a country with 40 million people isn't just incorrect, it's plain stupid. "You'd get the wrong answer on a primary school maths test" sort of stupid.

[Crimson Dynamo]

When someone can find me a European country with a city hub like London then we can compare