Clap for the NH...

[user104658]

Oh wait they're announcing public sector pay freezing.

:clap1::clap1::clap1: Well done guys :clap1::clap1:

Can people now see why the whole thing was such an insult? Really a complete ****ing joke? NHS front line workers who we all value so much more now, who we've suddenly realised are sooo important, HEROES they are, we'll clap into the sky for them!

But they're the first to take the hit of new austerity measures.

:facepalm: I'd be horrified but it's not like I didn't see it coming.

[Cherie]

Is there a link TS for this

I can only find the Independent which says it is 'considering'

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/coronavirus-latest-treasury-rishi-sunak-deficit-tax-pay-freeze-pension-triple-lock-a9511336.html


I can't see it happening, maybe in some sectors but public health? it would be like the Lib Dems tuition fee debacle, or Mrs May's home grab, they would never recover, Rishi will sink like a stone on TiBB?

Lets see if the question is raised at PM questions today

[AnnieK]

Oh wait they're announcing public sector pay freezing.

:clap1::clap1::clap1: Well done guys :clap1::clap1:

Can people now see why the whole thing was such an insult? Really a complete ****ing joke? NHS front line workers who we all value so much more now, who we've suddenly realised are sooo important, HEROES they are, we'll clap into the sky for them!

But they're the first to take the hit of new austerity measures.

:facepalm: I'd be horrified but it's not like I didn't see it coming.

The majority of people clapping though have no say in any pay freezes LT - they were just trying to show appreciation.

It will be a political death knoll if the Government freeze NHS staff wages - although I would put nothing past Boris.

[The Slim Reaper]

There will be zero price to pay if this happens; the same population that watched the tories cut everything and kill 100,000 of their compatriots over a decade long attack on poor and working families, only to reward them with another term, is suddenly supposed to be outraged at this?

[Cherie]

There will be zero price to pay if this happens; the same population that watched the tories cut everything and kill 100,000 of their compatriots over a decade long attack on poor and working families, only to reward them with another term, is suddenly supposed to be outraged at this?

They almost lost the 2017 election due to May's home grab and that was with Jeremy in the chair , this would be Nick Clegg kind of stupid I am afraid, they need to be especially careful as Keir Starmer is going to be formidable in opposition I think

[Liam-]

‘Thank you ever so much for all of your hard work, we, as a country, could never have gotten through this without you and as a showing of our everlasting gratitude... we’re giving you a two year pay freeze! Congratulations, you deserve it :amazed:’

[The Slim Reaper]

They almost lost the 2017 election due to May's home grab and that was with Jeremy in the chair , this would be Nick Clegg kind of stupid I am afraid, they need to be especially careful as Keir Starmer is going to be formidable in opposition I think

There's just no evidence that the public will hold them accountable for anything any more, so until I see them face any kind of backlash for just one of their f-ups, then there is absolutely no reason to believe this is true. It could be, but I need to see evidence first.

[smudgie]

The only way to have pay increases in this recession/depression would be to hike the tax rate up.
We can all show our appreciation by paying the extra tax with a smile on our faces.

[Crimson Dynamo]

after WW2 the front line soldiers when home were given a new suit and forgotten about pretty much

Churchill was ousted for socialists 2 months after the war as people thought that big government was good - lets all work together. do as we are told - reward everyone equally for their sacrifice. Lots of folk looked to Russia as an ideal model - they had their heroic workers too...

didnt really work out too well

[Liam-]

They almost lost the 2017 election due to May's home grab and that was with Jeremy in the chair , this would be Nick Clegg kind of stupid I am afraid, they need to be especially careful as Keir Starmer is going to be formidable in opposition I think

Boris backers and Tories in general, have proven time and time again that they’ll stand by him and the party no matter what they do, do you really think them doing this to the people who have actually saved lives during this pandemic is going to change that? I don’t, but I admire the positivity

[The Slim Reaper]

Yeah, that pesky post war socialism leading to the NHS (the tories voted against). No one was looking towards a Russian communist model.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Yeah, that pesky post war socialism leading to the NHS. No one was looking towards a Russian communist model.

the dreadful poor centrally controlled model the NHS is built on and its poor management IS the reason for the lockdown

as otherwise it would have failed

I guess at least if we were in Russia or China we could just lie and say its all working fine and hardly anyone has died

[The Slim Reaper]

the dreadful poor centrally controlled model the NHS is built on and its poor management IS the reason for the lockdown

as otherwise it would have failed

I guess at least if we were in Russia or China we could just lie and say its all working fine and hardly anyone has died

So America not having a poor nhs with poor management, should mean that there was no reason for them to have a lockdown then, right?

That's not actually the point you made though, it's the point you've pivoted to.

[Marsh.]

LT

:joker:

[Crimson Dynamo]

:joker:

:oh:

[Crimson Dynamo]

So America not having a poor nhs with poor management, should mean that there was no reason for them to have a lockdown then, right?

That's not actually the point you made though, it's the point you've pivoted to.

incorrect.

Look more to China - are they going to emerge from this crisis not to their population and many socialist sympathisers in the west for their secrets and lies but as a shining example of tight government and social control - communism love to be in permo crisis to keep the population in total control.

[The Slim Reaper]

incorrect.

Look more to China - are they going to emerge from this crisis not to their population and many socialist sympathisers in the west for their secrets and lies but as a shining example of tight government and social control - communism love to be in permo crisis to keep the population in total control.

That's just a load of words thrown together.

[Crimson Dynamo]

That's just a load of words thrown together.

hurts, doesn't it

[Livia]

The only way to have pay increases in this recession/depression would be to hike the tax rate up.
We can all show our appreciation by paying the extra tax with a smile on our faces.

Can there be anyone in the country who wouldn't be willing to pay a little more for the NHS?

[The Slim Reaper]

hurts, doesn't it

My eyes? Yes.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Can there be anyone in the country who wouldn't be willing to pay a little more for the NHS?

people who think its badly run and the money will just be wasted?

[Livia]

people who think its badly run and the money will just be wasted?

Most people haven't the first idea how the NHS runs but that doesn't stop them talking. For all the wild stories about the NHS, there'll be 100 positives you never get to hear.

[Liam-]

Can there be anyone in the country who wouldn't be willing to pay a little more for the NHS?

Depends on who’s suggesting it by the looks of it :whistle:

[Livia]

Depends on who’s suggesting it by the looks of it :whistle:

I don't know what you're on about, and I don't want to know.

[arista]

"Oh wait they're announcing public sector pay freezing."

Yes TS no money left
it's going to get Far Worse

[James]

When there is lower economy activity there is less tax coming in, which means less money to spend on public services.

That is (part of) the price of the lockdown.

I guess they'll try not to cut health spending though.

[bots]

if we have another lockdown, we won't have an nhs because the country will have gone bust. People can wring their hands as much as they like. Do NHS staff deserve a pay rise ... of course they do ... can we afford it? No, we can't

[The Slim Reaper]

When there is lower economy activity there is less tax coming in, which means less money to spend on public services.

That is (part of) the price of the lockdown.

I guess they'll try not to cut health spending though.

There's more than one theory about how to deal with that reality though.

[The Slim Reaper]

They almost lost the 2017 election due to May's home grab and that was with Jeremy in the chair , this would be Nick Clegg kind of stupid I am afraid, they need to be especially careful as Keir Starmer is going to be formidable in opposition I think

if we have another lockdown, we won't have an nhs because the country will have gone bust. People can wring their hands as much as they like. Do NHS staff deserve a pay rise ... of course they do ... can we afford it? No, we can't

Cherie, meet the public.

[Liam-]

They manage to find money whenever they need to bail out a bank, maybe they just feel bankers are worth more than the doctors and nurse

[The Slim Reaper]

They manage to find money whenever they need to bail out a bank, maybe they just feel bankers are worth more than the doctors and nurse

Of course, no one will have any financial concerns when they force us out on a no deal at the end of the year. We have until the end of june to ask for an extension, otherwise it's pretty much guaranteed to be a no-deal, which was so bad on it's own, that they were stockpiling body bags for, but throw it on the back of a global pandemic and good times are ahead.

[Brother Leon]

They almost lost the 2017 election due to May's home grab and that was with Jeremy in the chair , this would be Nick Clegg kind of stupid I am afraid, they need to be especially careful as Keir Starmer is going to be formidable in opposition I think

They are in power for the next 5 years or so. By the time we will have another election, those that want to vote for them will vote for them and the rest will be swayed by the media failing to highlight all these things as per.

[smudgie]

Can there be anyone in the country who wouldn't be willing to pay a little more for the NHS?

Well, there will be plenty still moaning it’s the governments fault for putting the taxes up.

[Tom4784]

Since it's the tories doing this, the majority of the population will conveniently ignore it or find some way to blame Jeremy Corbyn for it.

This nation will pretend to care when it gets them a few likes on Facebook when they wheel out fireworks or a ****ing brass band every Thursday night to clap for their own self interests but they won't say anything about this. It's a disgrace that such a thing is happening and a disgrace that people will let it slide by without a word.

[The Slim Reaper]

Well, there will be plenty still moaning it’s the governments fault for putting the taxes up.

The left was (generally) pro taxation, especially all those months ago back in december when we wanted to pay for a fully funded NHS and its employees (does that sound relevant in this thread?). Anti-taxation tends to come more from the right, which is why it's so heartening to see in this thread that even those on the hard right, are suddenly coming round to taxation as a means to pay for social programs.

[smudgie]

The left was (generally) pro taxation, especially all those months ago back in december when we wanted to pay for a fully funded NHS and its employees (does that sound relevant in this thread?). Anti-taxation tends to come more from the right, which is why it's so heartening to see in this thread that even those on the hard right, are suddenly coming round to taxation as a means to pay for social programs.

I don’t think it will be either left or right Slim.
I think we are generally a nation of whingers.

[James]

I was listening this morning to Spotify (Tron: Legacy soundtrack) and I got annoyed by an advert from a Scottish Government guy making a point of how they weren't relaxing the lockdown rules, and it occurred to me...

The Scottish Government is only responsible for raising part of its budget through taxes it sets. The rest of it comes from the UK government.

So politically the SNP can have the lockdown go on for longer, and deflect the blame to the UK government if that causes additional spending cuts.

[The Slim Reaper]

I was listening this morning to Spotify (Tron: Legacy soundtrack) and I got annoyed by an advert from a Scottish Government guy making a point of how they weren't relaxing the lockdown rules, and it occurred to me...

The Scottish Government is only responsible for raising part of its budget through taxes it sets. The rest of it comes from the UK government.

So politically the SNP can have the lockdown go on for longer, and deflect the blame to the UK government if that causes additional spending cuts.

Or, all nations could invest in the crumbling infrastructure that's been left to fall to pieces by governments of both parties over the last half century, create a massive jobs and works program investing in British workers (for the gallahads), that would then invest their salaries back into the economy, raising taxes and mobility.

[bots]

health should be a priority for decades to come, and this crisis just isnt comparable to the banks. Families have lost loved ones, families have had critically ill members returned to them in good health .... those things aren't forgotten .... ever. The public will demand that health is a priority, the problem is with 10 bob in the bank, it's difficult to do anything, even with the best intentions

[arista]

if we have another lockdown, we won't have an nhs because the country will have gone bust. People can wring their hands as much as they like. Do NHS staff deserve a pay rise ... of course they do ... can we afford it? No, we can't


Very Possible.

[Kizzy]

the dreadful poor centrally controlled model the NHS is built on and its poor management IS the reason for the lockdown

as otherwise it would have failed

I guess at least if we were in Russia or China we could just lie and say its all working fine and hardly anyone has died

So the socialist premise the NHS was founded on is the reason for the mismanagement of the NHS over recent times?

Now we are lying and attempting to gloss over deaths tbh. The move to conservatism has killed more people than any war ever...let's not forget this.

[Cherie]

Peston is interviewing Governor of Bank of England tonight 10.45ITV...not the best at understanding these things but apparently they are buying the debt and will hold it or something so there won’t be a period of austerity at the end of this ...someone else can explain it better I am sure

https://www.itv.com/news/2020-05-13/governor-of-bank-of-england-andrew-bailey-robert-peston/

[Crimson Dynamo]

So the socialist premise the NHS was founded on is the reason for the mismanagement of the NHS over recent times?

Now we are lying and attempting to gloss over deaths tbh. The move to conservatism has killed more people than any war ever...let's not forget this.

What on earth are you on about here?

[Beso]

basildon hospital has a bloke standing outside everyday clapping all day.

[Kizzy]

What on earth are you on about here?

Ok