Karen and gammon memes

[Kizzy]

What are the views on this...

I was dead against it at first but after speaking to my kids about it I get it. I've met loads...they exist, why deny it?

[Jake.]

It’s always the “freedom of speech” brigade who seem to be offended by them most

[Oliver_W]

Dang, I thought this was gonna be a thread for sharing the best ones :joker:

But yeah they're fine :joker: all stereotypes are ripe for mockery, and getting offended by them is Peak Karen(tm)

[Jessica.]

I think they're funny as long as they're only making fun of mean entitled people.

[Cherie]

Not a big fan of stereotyping anyone in general, of course there are people who fit the criteria that is the whole point of a stereotype in the first place, but that doesn't make it right does it?

I have been accused on here of being a 'Karen' by someone with no sense :hee:

[smudgie]

Not a big fan of stereotyping anyone in general, of course there are people who fit the criteria that is the whole point of a stereotype in the first place, but that doesn't make it right does it?

I have been accused on here of being a 'Karen' by someone with no sense :hee:

Well at least you know what a Karen is.😂

[Cherie]

Well at least you know what a Karen is.��

well I do now I didn't when it happened :hehe:

[Kazanne]

Well at least you know what a Karen is.��

Same smudgie,I have no idea either,kind of glad really:wavey:

[Mitchell]

I think they're funny as long as they're only making fun of mean entitled people.

This

[Liam-]

We love wild Karen sightings

[user104658]

My general thoughts are that tongue-in-cheek is one thing, but actual spiteful "twitter style" trolling is... Well it's annoying and pathetic whatever form it takes. When I see someone trying to shut down an argument with a parroted one-word comeback it only makes me think less of that person :shrug:.

[Beso]

My general thoughts are that tongue-in-cheek is one thing, but actual spiteful "twitter style" trolling is... Well it's annoying and pathetic whatever form it takes. When I see someone trying to shut down an argument with a parroted one-word comeback it only makes me think less of that person :shrug:.

Meh

[Oliver_W]

My general thoughts are that tongue-in-cheek is one thing, but actual spiteful "twitter style" trolling is... Well it's annoying and pathetic whatever form it takes. When I see someone trying to shut down an argument with a parroted one-word comeback it only makes me think less of that person :shrug:.
"Okay Boomer" :hehe:

[Kizzy]

Boomers are different, anyone can be a boomer apparently, but only karens can be karen.

It's very complex :)

[Crimson Dynamo]

Unless you use Reddit they can't still be a thing in 2020?

[Cherie]

We love wild Karen sightings

:oh:

[Oliver_W]

Boomers are different, anyone can be a boomer apparently, but only karens can be karen.

It's very complex :)

I'm basically a boomer despite being in my twenties - I liike old shows and movies and music, and I'm a bit of a fuddyduddy :laugh:

[Oliver_W]

Unless you use Reddit they can't still be a thing in 2020?

Reddit is a symptom, other symptoms include: unironically saying "Okay Boomer", or calling someone an incel or an SJW :laugh:

[arista]

Why is no one posting images?

[Liam-]

Actually anybody can be a Karen, Karen is a mindset

[Cherie]

Actually anybody can be a Karen, Karen is a mindset

thank you Karen

[Nicky91]

https://www.insider.com/karen-meme-origin-the-history-of-calling-women-karen-white-2020-5

https://ruinmyweek.com/memes/karen-meme/

the Karen meme explained here

[Liam-]

thank you Karen

I’m not a Karen, I’m a peace lover who doesn’t shout at people in parks

[Cherie]

I’m not a Karen, I’m a peace lover who doesn’t shout at people in parks

:laugh:

[Liam-]

1269590992950308865

[Cherie]

https://www.insider.com/karen-meme-origin-the-history-of-calling-women-karen-white-2020-5

https://ruinmyweek.com/memes/karen-meme/

the Karen meme explained here

who stereotypically had "speak to the manager" haircuts — acting entitled in public. Now, it's used as an identifier for any white woman who acts inappropriately, rudely, or in an entitled fashion.

No one has those now unless they have been illegally having the mobile hairdresser round :hee:

[arista]

https://talentrecap.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/Central-Park-Karen-Black-Man-Amy-Cooper-Christian-Cooper.png


Yes the USA Karen
in Central Park in NYC
in a Panic as a Black man is near her.


She was meant to have her dog on a lead.


Racist thoughts in her head

[Oliver_W]

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/773/548/6a4.jpg

[user104658]

who stereotypically had "speak to the manager" haircuts — acting entitled in public. Now, it's used as an identifier for any white woman who acts inappropriately, rudely, or in an entitled fashion.

No one has those now unless they have been illegally having the mobile hairdresser round :hee:

It loosely just refers to entitled white women who like to complain about everything (and feel like they should be taken more seriously than others) but the nuances get complicated.

For example, there are plenty of male Karens. And more than a few female Gammons.

[user104658]

Funnily enough, one of the biggest Karens I've ever known was an Indian man. A rather wealthy one, so I guess wealth privilege comes into it to some extent.

[Liam-]

Husband and wife Karen duos are the best

1270390035746115585

[Oliver_W]

Funnily enough, one of the biggest Karens I've ever known was an Indian man. A rather wealthy one, so I guess wealth privilege comes into it to some extent.

Yeah it's more of an undue sense of entitlement rather than a race or gender thing, but "Karen" just encapsulates it so well :laugh:

[Cherie]

Husband and wife Karen duos are the best

1270390035746115585

:joker:

you been drinking ha...is that you TiBB

[Kizzy]

Funnily enough, one of the biggest Karens I've ever known was an Indian man. A rather wealthy one, so I guess wealth privilege comes into it to some extent.

He was just a twat... He wasn't a Karen.

Look at you insisting that men be karens, lol

[Braden]

I haven't seen many, tbh.

I guess they're used to stereotype right-leaning people, just like the word 'snowflake' is used to stereotype the left?

[user104658]

He was just a twat... He wasn't a Karen.

Look at you insisting that men be karens, lol

I'm all for equality Kizzy, you know fine well we have ample chunks of femme gammon right here on TiBB :hee:. Stop being such a Karen.

[Livia]

So there IS a section of people that it's okay to stereotype!

I'm sure the white people worrying about whether blackface can ever be funny are the same ones endorsing this as 'fine'.

[Kizzy]

I'm all for equality Kizzy, you know fine well we have ample chunks of femme gammon right here on TiBB :hee:. Stop being such a Karen.

I was waiting for that, because I suggested an Asian man can't be a karen, I'm a Karen? Lol.

I don't believe women can be gammon either, only socialisation produces these types, it's a whole life process imo. For instance a little boy is influenced a certain way, by his parents he seeks out peers with similar views as friends, joins the military. Reads and watches certain papers and media, avid sports fan and drinker. And they are white.

For me the female equivalent of gammon is karen.


Love your sig btw :)

[Kizzy]

So there IS a section of people that it's okay to stereotype!

I'm sure the white people worrying about whether blackface can ever be funny are the same ones endorsing this as 'fine'.

Not sure how you equate a stereotype with blackface.. you have a go, I can't.

[Livia]

Not sure how you equate a stereotype with blackface.. you have a go, I can't.

Isn't blackface the epitome of a stereotype? Isn't that what blackface IS?

[user104658]

I was waiting for that, because I suggested an Asian man can't be a karen, I'm a Karen? Lol.

Maybe he was a Karim :think:

[Livia]

Feel a bit sorry for any normal person called Karen, actually. Because she isn't normal.

[Cherie]

It would be nice if stereotypes could be erased across the board, but that ain't going to happen when white people are quite happy to stereotype other white people while moaning about white people stereotyping people of other races, personally I don't get it, but I live by my own rules, not some rules set by twitter et al

[Oliver_W]

It would be nice if stereotypes could be erased across the board, but that ain't going to happen when white people are quite happy to stereotype other white people while moaning about white people stereotyping people of other races, personally I don't get it, but I live by my own rules, not some rules set by the twitter et al

We live in clown world, just mock and deride every aspect of it :dance:

[user104658]

Feel a bit sorry for any normal person called Karen, actually. Because she isn't normal.

My wife's aunt is called Karen but I'm going to be honest and say that the urban dictionary definition of Karen could just be a photo of her.

[user104658]

We live in clown world

I think that's probably always been the case, but I do low-key love the fact that since about 2018 it's just descended into being generally accepted. Like the world is utterly absurd and pointless and everyone knows it now.

[arista]

Feel a bit sorry for any normal person called Karen, actually. Because she isn't normal.


Sure they can handle it.

[Oliver_W]

I think that's probably always been the case, but I do low-key love the fact that since about 2018 it's just descended into being generally accepted. Like the world is utterly absurd and pointless and everyone knows it now.

I'm soo glad I gave up caring about politics (apart from "broad strokes" and obvious stuff). The only things I ever fully cared about were the environment and animals, everything else ...

The world is a better place when you just laugh at it :)

[Kizzy]

Isn't blackface the epitome of a stereotype? Isn't that what blackface IS?

There is a gulf of difference, one is playing a perceived stereotype, which is more of a caricature imo

And the other is actually being a stereotypical personality.

[Jessica.]

Feel a bit sorry for any normal person called Karen, actually. Because she isn't normal.

I've seen comments by people called Karen saying that they aren't offended by the memes and that they understand that it's nothing against them, it's just a common name that happened to become part of the joke.

[Livia]

It would be nice if stereotypes could be erased across the board, but that ain't going to happen when white people are quite happy to stereotype other white people while moaning about white people stereotyping people of other races, personally I don't get it, but I live by my own rules, not some rules set by twitter et al

True.... ginger people, fat people, geeky people... everyone has the urine extracted and we can't legislate for everyone. Sounds a bit too 1984.

[Kizzy]

It would be nice if stereotypes could be erased across the board, but that ain't going to happen when white people are quite happy to stereotype other white people while moaning about white people stereotyping people of other races, personally I don't get it, but I live by my own rules, not some rules set by twitter et al

Stereotyping exists, its a fact. Again there's a difference between a white person mocking another race with a perceived physical appearance and identifying stereotypical traits in another white person.

I too live by my own rules, I don't however shmush all rules into one, or call for the erasure of societal observation.

Not all stereotypes are negative btw.

[Cherie]

Stereotyping exists, its a fact. Again there's a difference between a white person mocking another race with a perceived physical appearance and identifying stereotypical traits in another white person.

I too live by my own rules, I don't however shmush all rules into one, or call for the erasure of societal observation.

Not all stereotypes are negative btw.

True but the majority are negative

[Kizzy]

True but the majority are negative

Thought you were a glass half full girl?.. come on I'm sure you can think of some positive stereotypes.

[Cherie]

Thought you were a glass half full girl?.. come on I'm sure you can think of some positive stereotypes.

Nope even I am stumped

Dictionary definition, not too positive is it

a set idea that people have about what someone or something is like, especially an idea that is wrong:
racial/sexual stereotypes
He doesn't conform to/fit/fill the national stereotype of a Frenchman.
The characters in the book are just stereotypes

[Tom4784]

I can understand why some people might think Karen is a sexist term but, tbh, anyone can be a Karen regardless of gender. If you're rude, hostile and attempting to scream down people trying to provide a service to you, you're a Karen, if you're bothering people for existing and getting into their business where you don't belong, you're a Karen. Etc etc.

[armand.kay]

the meme was made to poke fun at entitled people who’d utilise their privilege to assert power over people somewhere along the line it’s ended up being used to describe any whiney white woman. The only issues i’ve ever had with the meme though is that i’m not really a fan of giving racist white people who weaponise the police a cutesy nickname.

[Mokka]

the meme was made to poke fun at entitled people who’d utilise their privilege to assert power over people somewhere along the line it’s ended up being used to describe any whiney white woman. The only issues i’ve ever had with the meme though is that i’m not really a fan of giving racist white people who weaponise the police a cutesy nickname.

:clap1: :clap1: :clap1:

Succinctly put

[Beso]

All Karen's names matter.

[Livia]

Can someone please list for me, all the people it's okay to abuse? Because I was thinking, wouldn't it be great if everyone stopped abusing everyone else.

[Oliver_W]

Can someone please list for me, all the people it's okay to abuse? Because I was thinking, wouldn't it be great if everyone stopped abusing everyone else.
Everyone. Simple as that :)

[Jessica.]

Can someone please list for me, all the people it's okay to abuse? Because I was thinking, wouldn't it be great if everyone stopped abusing everyone else.

racists
bigots
xenophobes
homophobes
etc..

[Livia]

racists
bigots
xenophobes
homophobes
etc..


And YOU are one of the people who get to decide who those people are.

That doesn't exactly fill me with confidence.

[Jessica.]

And YOU are one of the people who get to decide who those people are.

That doesn't exactly fill me with confidence.

Do you think I made bad choices with what I listed?

[Livia]

Do you think I made bad choices with what I listed?

You don't really want to know what I think, you want an opportunity to call me names.

[Jessica.]

You don't really want to know what I think, you want an opportunity to call me names.

What names did I call you????

[Oliver_W]

Do you think I made bad choices with what I listed?

The list itself is fine, because everyone is a fair target :)

[Mokka]

What names did I call you????

She's referring to the fact that several people here have clocked her for racist remarks... and she doesn't feel that being a racist can apply to her because she is Jewish.
I can say this because I know she has blocked me for 7 years or more for pointing out a racist remark.

[user104658]

The list itself is fine, because everyone is a fair target :)For abuse? :think: have to disagree. For a bit of rib-poking and ponytail-pulling, yes, but aggressive/vicious verbal attacks... Nah. Never OK no matter what you think of the person. Take the recent JK Rowling stuff as an example - whether you agree with what she's had to say regarding gender identity or not, the abuse doled out on SoMed isn't really OK. It wouldn't be OK directed at racists or anyone else, either. By all means call people out but when it starts to get aggressive and threatening, it's gone too far. In literally any circumstance.

I'd also add, even the gentler "rib-poking" whilst generally fine, I draw the line when it's directed at people with intellectual disabilities and the severely mentally ill. It stops being OK when the target has no way of being "in on the joke", doesn't understand, and can't respond.

[Oliver_W]

For abuse? :think: have to disagree. For a bit of rib-poking and ponytail-pulling, yes, but aggressive/vicious verbal attacks... Nah. Never OK no matter what you think of the person. Take the recent JK Rowling stuff as an example - whether you agree with what she's had to say regarding gender identity or not, the abuse doled out on SoMed isn't really OK. It wouldn't be OK directed at racists or anyone else, either. By all means call people out but when it starts to get aggressive and threatening, it's gone too far. In literally any circumstance.

I'd also add, even the gentler "rib-poking" whilst generally fine, I draw the line when it's directed at people with intellectual disabilities and the severely mentally ill. It stops being OK when the target has no way of being "in on the joke", doesn't understand, and can't respond.
Depends how we define abuse :laugh: mockery and memeing of types is fine no matter who, as long as they're not disabled like you said.

I feel a bit bad for JKR, god knows how much abuse she's been getting lately for pointing out that only females menstrate, and even the cast members are borderline renouncing her!

[Niamh.]

Depends how we define abuse :laugh: mockery and memeing of types is fine no matter who, as long as they're not disabled like you said.

I feel a bit bad for JKR, god knows how much abuse she's been getting lately for pointing out that only females menstrate, and even the cast members are borderline renouncing her!

Her ex has come out saying, he's not sorry he hit her either. Imagine feeling so emboldened by the abuse she's getting on SM that you feel fine about saying you hit her and you don't feel bad?

[Oliver_W]

Her ex has come out saying, he's not sorry he hit her either. Imagine feeling so emboldened by the abuse she's getting on SM that you feel fine about saying you hit her and you don't feel bad?

Jesus, I didn't hear about that ...

[Niamh.]

Jesus, I didn't hear about that ...

Front page of the Sun apparently (and featured in other news papers)

[user104658]

Her decision to engage with this on Twitter was an error (though IMO the decision to engage in any debate on Twitter is an error) because, even grading on a curve, the Twitter trans rights community is utterly toxic.

But there's no excuse at all for the aggression she's been getting (rape threats from transwomen? Erm...) and the HP cast jumping on the bandwagon and repeating hive-mind mantras to, as far as I can tell, appease the zeitgeist... Is utterly pathetic. I couldn't have less respect for them at this point.

[Mokka]

Her ex has come out saying, he's not sorry he hit her either. Imagine feeling so emboldened by the abuse she's getting on SM that you feel fine about saying you hit her and you don't feel bad?

That says more about him and his character than it does about the people calling her out for her views. Views she is adamant enough to write essays about for the public to scrutinize.
His vile character and actions while they were married does not justify either of their views or actions today.

[Niamh.]

Her decision to engage with this on Twitter was an error (though IMO the decision to engage in any debate on Twitter is an error) because, even grading on a curve, the Twitter trans rights community is utterly toxic.

But there's no excuse at all for the aggression she's been getting (rape threats from transwomen? Erm...) and the HP cast jumping on the bandwagon and repeating hive-mind mantras to, as far as I can tell, appease the zeitgeist... Is utterly pathetic. I couldn't have less respect for them at this point.

Ironically the responses she's been getting from a lot of transwomen (the suck my dicks and rape threats) kind of go aways to validating what she wrote about her fears and being a woman.......

[user104658]

Ironically the responses she's been getting from a lot of transwomen (the suck my dicks and rape threats) kind of go aways to validating what she wrote about her fears and being a woman.......

The whole thing (the whole twittersphere in fact) is drenched in a sad irony to be honest. People feel emboldened by having a platform, their use of that platform becomes increasingly aggressive and extreme, most people get bored with it and abandon the platform which becomes increasingly niche and circular, THAT encourages ever-more-extreme behaviour, which put off yet more people in a downwards spiral. The end result is - in my opinion inevitably - going to be the platform being abandonned or at the very least, completely losing mainstream appeal. With no replacement.

It's already happening to be honest. And sadly it means that the genuine, non-aggressive people who just wanted to be seen and heard will find their platform going right along with it.

[Niamh.]

The whole thing (the whole twittersphere in fact) is drenched in a sad irony to be honest. People feel emboldened by having a platform, their use of that platform becomes increasingly aggressive and extreme, most people get bored with it and abandon the platform which becomes increasingly niche and circular, THAT encourages ever-more-extreme behaviour, which put off yet more people in a downwards spiral. The end result is - in my opinion inevitably - going to be the platform being abandonned or at the very least, completely losing mainstream appeal. With no replacement.

It's already happening to be honest. And sadly it means that the genuine, non-aggressive people who just wanted to be seen and heard will find their platform going right along with it.

mmm Twitter is really awful, I was also very disappointed with the Harry Potter actors coming out against her. They're of course entitled to voice their opinions but I was disappointed that they never said that the abuse she was getting was unacceptable, the woman who made them all millionaires and who had been a friend to them

[user104658]

mmm Twitter is really awful, I was also very disappointed with the Harry Potter actors coming out against her. They're of course entitled to voice their opinions but I was disappointed that they never said that the abuse she was getting was unacceptable, the woman who made them all millionaires and who had been a friend to them

I don't mind them having their own opinions but they're not sharing anything reasoned, just parroting some basic lines to appease the fan base. They practically all said the same thing word-for-word. One of 'em said something about wishing she wouldn't do this on twitter - that's about the only part I completely agree with. She's not a stupid person... I find it hard to believe that she didn't know the reaction before she posted... so to do it on Twitter seems a bit like bear baiting and I have to wonder if it was partly intentional. Obviously that's not to excuse the abuse but, surely, no intelligent person could say "I thought I could post a nuanced discussion of a sensitive issue on Twitter and it would go well" with a straight face.

[Kizzy]

Can someone please list for me, all the people it's okay to abuse? Because I was thinking, wouldn't it be great if everyone stopped abusing everyone else.

SJW's
The PC brigade
Snowflakes
Social justice warriors
Libtards
Virtue signallers
Bleeding hearted hand wringing lefties
'Millenials' (used as a term to diminish someone's opinion)

Well done getting these eradicated, I hope you do mind you.

[Liam-]

She knew what she was doing when she posted the article, she even turned off the comments on the tweets because she knew what she was doing, it’s funny that a marvellous author wrote lauded and beloved books about a person growing up different but ending up feeling loved, accepted and idolised, can then turn around and try to demean and belittle a whole demographic, just trying to do the same thing, she’s an awful woman with awful opinions, however that Sun front page is diabolical and totally unsurprising for the rag and the abuse she’s getting from Twitter only serves to prove her point, which is what people like her say the things they do, they seek a reaction to back up their ignorance.

It is amazing though that the biggest defenders of her about that front page are charities and spokespeople for the very demographic she seeks to invalidate, who’s really the problem in this scenario?

[Mokka]

I don't mind them having their own opinions but they're not sharing anything reasoned, just parroting some basic lines to appease the fan base. They practically all said the same thing word-for-word. One of 'em said something about wishing she wouldn't do this on twitter - that's about the only part I completely agree with. She's not a stupid person... I find it hard to believe that she didn't know the reaction before she posted... so to do it on Twitter seems a bit like bear baiting and I have to wonder if it was partly intentional. Obviously that's not to excuse the abuse but, surely, no intelligent person could say "I thought I could post a nuanced discussion of a sensitive issue on Twitter and it would go well" with a straight face.


Absolutely. She chose the platform for the discussion she layed out. She doesn't then get to be upset that it is coming back to haunt her, nor do people complain about it on her behalf.
But also, I don't buy into the theory that the children hired to be in her movies, now adults with their own views and opinions, shouldn't be allowed to stand against her because "they would be nothing with out her". They were hired as children without knowing her views or having the ability to take a political or public stance. They aren't obligated to back any or all views she has today. Even if the franchise was still filming, they would be allowed to have a voice. She doesn't own them.

[Niamh.]

"women have periods" such a horrible "opinion" to hold

[Mokka]

"women have periods" such a horrible "opinion" to hold

So if a naturally born woman has a hysterectomy... is she no longer a woman?? :think:

[Liam-]

"women have periods" such a horrible "opinion" to hold

Well it’s along the same lines as ‘women can reproduce’ really isn’t it, does that mean women that can’t do those womanly things aren’t women?

[Oliver_W]

So if a naturally born woman has a hysterectomy... is she no longer a woman?? :think:

"Only women can have periods" isn't the same as "periods define womanhood"

[Liam-]

"Only women can have periods" isn't the same as "periods define womanhood"

That’s exactly what people are saying though

[Niamh.]

She knew what she was doing when she posted the article, she even turned off the comments on the tweets because she knew what she was doing, it’s funny that a marvellous author wrote lauded and beloved books about a person growing up different but ending up feeling loved, accepted and idolised, can then turn around and try to demean and belittle a whole demographic, just trying to do the same thing, she’s an awful woman with awful opinions, however that Sun front page is diabolical and totally unsurprising for the rag and the abuse she’s getting from Twitter only serves to prove her point, which is what people like her say the things they do, they seek a reaction to back up their ignorance.

It is amazing though that the biggest defenders of her about that front page are charities and spokespeople for the very demographic she seeks to invalidate, who’s really the problem in this scenario?

I mean do you really honestly believe that the objective is to demean trans people rather than be concerned about women's rights? I can't believe people read her statement and came to that conclusion. Look at the woman's past ffs, she's always been left leaning and supportive of minorities, it's clearly taken her a long time to have the guts to feel able to say publicly that she's worried about women's rights. I feel the same, I don't want to make anyone bad about themselves and I don't care how anyone chooses to live their lives.......unless it affects other peoples rights which is what is happening

[Mokka]

"Only women can have periods" isn't the same as "periods define womanhood"

Not all woman have periods. There are medical or physical reasons they can't or don't.

[Oliver_W]

Not all woman have periods. There are medical or physical reasons they can't or don't.

Sure, but everyone who can have a period is a woman, so the article she was referring to that called women "people who menstruate" could have saved their word count a bit :laugh:

[Mokka]

I mean do you really honestly believe that the objective is to demean trans people rather than be concerned about women's rights? I can't believe people read her statement and came to that conclusion. Look at the woman's past ffs, she's always been left leaning and supportive of minorities, it's clearly taken her a long time to have the guts to feel able to say publicly that she's worried about women's rights. I feel the same, I don't want to make anyone bad about themselves and I don't care how anyone chooses to live their lives.......unless it affects other peoples rights which is what is happening

no, it's maybe affecting perceived rights, bit that is a whole discussion on what are rights and what are privileges, how they are defined in each different society and through out the world. Rights can be redefined.

[Niamh.]

So if a naturally born woman has a hysterectomy... is she no longer a woman?? :think:

How did you read that from my post?

I said women have periods, I didn't say if you don't have periods you're not a woman. Biologically speaking only women have periods

[Livia]

Is it safe to say that all women have two X chromosomes. Whether they menstruate, or not.

Transwomen are not the same as born women, no matter how they wish they were. That doesn't mean they're worth less than born women, it just means that they are not "the same".

[Mokka]

Sure, but everyone who can have a period is a woman, so the article she was referring to that called women "people who menstruate" could have saved their word count a bit :laugh:

Not all woman can menstruate... does that make it clearer for you?

[Mokka]

How did you read that from my post?

I said women have periods, I didn't say if you don't have periods you're not a woman. Biologically speaking only women have periods

And biologically speaking, not all women have periods, so it isn't a definition of being a woman

[Oliver_W]

Not all woman can menstruate... does that make it clearer for you?

No-one said all women could menstruate :shrug: not even JKR said that.

But what she did say was that everyone who can menstruate is a woman, which pissed people off for some reason.

[Niamh.]

Well it’s along the same lines as ‘women can reproduce’ really isn’t it, does that mean women that can’t do those womanly things aren’t women?

Again, I never said that, why are you acting like I did. She said women have periods because she objected to being referred to as a person who menstruates, which is demeaning and dehumanising, i totally agree with her.

[Liam-]

I mean do you really honestly believe that the objective is to demean trans people rather than be concerned about women's rights? I can't believe people read her statement and came to that conclusion. Look at the woman's past ffs, she's always been left leaning and supportive of minorities, it's clearly taken her a long time to have the guts to feel able to say publicly that she's worried about women's rights. I feel the same, I don't want to make anyone bad about themselves and I don't care how anyone chooses to live their lives.......unless it affects other peoples rights which is what is happening

Yes that is what I believe people are trying to do, we haven’t seen any women’s rights actually be affected by trans people, no rights have been taken away or reversed, what’s happening to trans people now, is the same thing that happened to gay people, they were accused of encroaching on straight rights, they were accused of indoctrinating children, they were accused of trying to take control of society with their ‘perverted ideology’ if women are happy for people to be who they are, why does their existence threaten women in any form of way?

[Mokka]

Is it safe to say that all women have two X chromosomes. Whether they menstruate, or not.

Transwomen are not the same as born women, no matter how they wish they were. That doesn't mean they're worth less than born women, it just means that they are not "the same".

No. That is just how you would like it to be defined or need it to be.

Chromosomes are what print out our genes or genetics. Some are turned on and off in different people. Having X and Y doesn't mean your genes exactly what another X and Y persons are.

[Mokka]

Yes that is what I believe people are trying to do, we haven’t seen any women’s rights actually be affected by trans people, no rights have been taken away or reversed, what’s happening to trans people now, is the same thing that happened to gay people, they were accused of encroaching on straight rights, they were accused of indoctrinating children, they were accused of trying to take control of society with their ‘perverted ideology’ if women are happy for people to be who they are, why does their existence threaten women in any form of way?

:clap1: :clap1: :clap1:

[Oliver_W]

we haven’t seen any women’s rights actually be affected by trans people, no rights have been taken away or reversed

Single sex spaces had to be fought for, and they're compromised by transwomen.

It's not a right being violated per say but dehumanising language like "mestrators" being used instead of "women"

[Liam-]

Single sex spaces had to be fought for, and they're compromised by transwomen.

It's not a right being violated per say but dehumanising language like "mestrators" being used instead of "women"

They’re ‘compromised’ by transwomen how?

[Niamh.]

no, it's maybe affecting perceived rights, bit that is a whole discussion on what are rights and what are privileges, how they are defined in each different society and through out the world. Rights can be redefined.

No it isn't affecting women's rights? So you think Rachel McKinnon isn't encroaching on women's rights then?

[Niamh.]

And biologically speaking, not all women have periods, so it isn't a definition of being a woman

Where did I say having periods was the definition of being a woman? You're arguing a point that I haven't made

[Oliver_W]

They’re ‘compromised’ by transwomen how?

Transwomen are biologically male. I wonder how many women would be comfortable getting changed around someone who is visibly male?

[Cal.]

Aw my mum is called Karen

[Oliver_W]

Aw my mum is called Karen

And does she live up to it? :D

[Niamh.]

Yes that is what I believe people are trying to do, we haven’t seen any women’s rights actually be affected by trans people, no rights have been taken away or reversed, what’s happening to trans people now, is the same thing that happened to gay people, they were accused of encroaching on straight rights, they were accused of indoctrinating children, they were accused of trying to take control of society with their ‘perverted ideology’ if women are happy for people to be who they are, why does their existence threaten women in any form of way?

YES WE HAVE. Women have been raped in prisons by "transwomen" Womens sports has been affected by transwomen

And for the record, I don't believe actual trans people are to blame here, I think that men are abusing these loopholes for their own gain

I also believe these issues only started when gender replaced sex

[Cal.]

And does she live up to it? :D

She’s 40 and gobby but she’s not crazy so idk

[Tom4784]

JK Rowling sadly has a history of transphobic remarks and the whole menstruation thing, while factual, is meant to demean trans women. She's embraced the TERF school of thought sadly.

I think the abuse she's suffered is awful but her timing with going public with her history demeans what she's gone through because it inevitably sounds like she's just talking about it to derail the whole controversy, I don't like saying it but you're going to get people who will say that she's using her past for sympathy which undermines her struggles and other people's struggles with the same issues. It's her story and she decides when to tell it but unfortunately, she probably chose the worst time she could to tell it.

[Marsh.]

Wow, that Sun front page. The witch hunt is out in full force. Absolutely disgusting.

[Niamh.]

JK Rowling sadly has a history of transphobic remarks and the whole menstruation thing, while factual, is meant to demean trans women. She's embraced the TERF school of thought sadly.

I think the abuse she's suffered is awful but her timing with going public with her history demeans what she's gone through because it inevitably sounds like she's just talking about it to derail the whole controversy, I don't like saying it but you're going to get people who will say that she's using her past for sympathy which undermines her struggles and other people's struggles with the same issues. It's her story and she decides when to tell it but unfortunately, she probably chose the worst time she could to tell it.

Nasty word used to shut women down.

[Marsh.]

The worst part about the entire thing is so called "progressive activists" like Emma Watson coming out just to trot out shallow phrases rather than actually join the discussion.

She wants to do what she holds herself up to be? Then add a meaningful article of your own to support the trans community, or to offer up some form of debate. Just coming out to basically say "Trans women are women" which adds nothing to the conversation other than repeating a phrase as a simple way of saying "FYI I'm not with JK Rowling so don't unfollow and attack me guys" is disingenuous and makes what she stands for laughable.

At least Daniel Radcliffe had the guts to actually write a bloody article (or at least put his name to one).

The same as all the celebs parroting the same "Black Lives Matter" "Act Now" slogans. Not actually doing much for the cause they claim to be so passionate about, simply doing it for the credit without putting the work in. JK Rowling at least stands by and has the charitable foundations to back up her support for many causes.

One of the responses to her tweet got it right "Your feminism is a joke!". From the articles I've read and the responses I've seen the trans community themselves don't even seem to agree with one another on whether what JK actually said was transphobic or not, the majority of the abuse I've seen posted at her on twitter is by white, cis people (all ironically telling her that as a white, cis, woman she shouldn't be allowed her voice which is nonsense). So for her to share a story of abuse and people like Emma Watson just to add to the pile-on and not actively add to the important discussion is really rather disgusting. Society can't change and move on unless people allow opposing thoughts and discussions.

[The Slim Reaper]

Wow, that Sun front page. The witch hunt is out in full force. Absolutely disgusting.

I don't really know enough about trans rights issues to be a regular commenter in these threads, but I think JKR's connections to the Leveson enquiry is a major cause of their attacks on her. Same way they've been going after Coogan again after he called for Leveson to be completed properly.

[Niamh.]

Yes that is what I believe people are trying to do, we haven’t seen any women’s rights actually be affected by trans people, no rights have been taken away or reversed, what’s happening to trans people now, is the same thing that happened to gay people, they were accused of encroaching on straight rights, they were accused of indoctrinating children, they were accused of trying to take control of society with their ‘perverted ideology’ if women are happy for people to be who they are, why does their existence threaten women in any form of way?

Their existence does not threaten women in anyway, it may surprise you but transsexuals have been a thing for a while now, no problems.

The problems started occurring when gender replaces sex and suddenly all you need to do is say you're a woman, maybe take some hormones and you can compete competitively in women's sports.... all of a sudden women's records are being smashed, it's at best totally unfair, at worst ****ing dangerous (sports like Rugby/MMA)

It threatens female prisoners when the right to self ID allows you into women's prisons as
a man

It affects childrens rights when it's being campaigned for children to be able to take puberty blockers which can basically **** up their whole lives and make them sterile

[Marsh.]

I don't really know enough about trans rights issues to be a regular commenter in these threads, but I think JKR's connections to the Leveson enquiry is a major cause of their attacks on her. Same way they've been going after Coogan again after he called for Leveson to be completed properly.

I completely forgot about that. As Arista would say, bang on right.

[Cherie]

The worst part about the entire thing is so called "progressive activists" like Emma Watson coming out just to trot out shallow phrases rather than actually join the discussion.

She wants to do what she holds herself up to be? Then add a meaningful article of your own to support the trans community, or to offer up some form of debate. Just coming out to basically say "Trans women are women" which adds nothing to the conversation other than repeating a phrase as a simple way of saying "FYI I'm not with JK Rowling so don't unfollow and attack me guys" is disingenuous and makes what she stands for laughable.

At least Daniel Radcliffe had the guts to actually write a bloody article (or at least put his name to one).

The same as all the celebs parroting the same "Black Lives Matter" "Act Now" slogans. Not actually doing much for the cause they claim to be so passionate about, simply doing it for the credit without putting the work in.

One of the responses to her tweet got it right "Your feminism is a joke!". From the articles I've read and the responses I've seen the trans community themselves don't even seem to agree with one another on whether what JK actually said was transphobic or not, the majority of the abuse I've seen posted at her on twitter is by white, cis people (all ironically telling her that as a white, cis, woman she shouldn't be allowed her voice which is nonsense). So for her to share a story of abuse and people like Emma Watson just to add to the pile-on and not actively add to the important discussion is really rather disgusting. Society can't change and move on unless people allow opposing thoughts and discussions.

Superb Marsh :clap1:

[Cherie]

She’s 40 and gobby but she’s not crazy so idk

Well this explains everything :hee:

[Marsh.]

Some balance from a transsexual themselves. :think:

https://thepostmillennial.com/jk-rowling-transphobic-youre-just-sensitive

Making the valid point that if biological sex doesn't exist, kind of invalidates trans people too as they "transition" for a reason.

The claim that JK has poured hatred and justified violence against transpeople is one of the more laughable claims I've heard.

[Niamh.]

The worst part about the entire thing is so called "progressive activists" like Emma Watson coming out just to trot out shallow phrases rather than actually join the discussion.

She wants to do what she holds herself up to be? Then add a meaningful article of your own to support the trans community, or to offer up some form of debate. Just coming out to basically say "Trans women are women" which adds nothing to the conversation other than repeating a phrase as a simple way of saying "FYI I'm not with JK Rowling so don't unfollow and attack me guys" is disingenuous and makes what she stands for laughable.

At least Daniel Radcliffe had the guts to actually write a bloody article (or at least put his name to one).

The same as all the celebs parroting the same "Black Lives Matter" "Act Now" slogans. Not actually doing much for the cause they claim to be so passionate about, simply doing it for the credit without putting the work in. JK Rowling at least stands by and has the charitable foundations to back up her support for many causes.

One of the responses to her tweet got it right "Your feminism is a joke!". From the articles I've read and the responses I've seen the trans community themselves don't even seem to agree with one another on whether what JK actually said was transphobic or not, the majority of the abuse I've seen posted at her on twitter is by white, cis people (all ironically telling her that as a white, cis, woman she shouldn't be allowed her voice which is nonsense). So for her to share a story of abuse and people like Emma Watson just to add to the pile-on and not actively add to the important discussion is really rather disgusting. Society can't change and move on unless people allow opposing thoughts and discussions.

Well said Marsh!

[Marsh.]

:hee:

[Marsh.]

Also, just now I've come across the "Women and cis women" stuff, yeah. She was accused of "othering" transpeople but I imagine people born as women find it pretty othering for it to now be a case of "trans women are WOMEN and women are CIS WOMEN". The sudden disdain for any mention of the word trans is what's causing any harm to that community, but at the same time they want to uphold use of the word "cis". It's hypocritical and toxic.



And as a cis, privileged white person that's me done. :worry:

[Cal.]

Well this explains everything :hee:

Erm how so darlin!

[Tom4784]

Nasty word used to shut women down.

TERFs do exist though, I think you're right in that there have been cases of 'Trans' people preying on women and using their status as a way of doing so but TERFs are basically extremists that oppose trans people in general and JK has been known to tweet support for TERFs that have been ruled in a court of law to be discriminating against trans people. TERFs are no different, in my eyes, to LGB people who oppose the T and want it abolished. It's not a word I'd use to describe just women either, any gender can be a TERF if they hold extreme views.

I do think that a lot of the problems with people abusing trans status would generally not be a thing if self diagnosis wasn't a thing. I don't think anyone should be able to say 'I am trans' and then start living as their preferred gender just because there's more to be considered than that unfortunately.

[Marsh.]

I do think that a lot of the problems with people abusing trans status would generally not be a thing if self diagnosis wasn't a thing. I don't think anyone should be able to say 'I am trans' and then start living as their preferred gender just because there's more to be considered than that unfortunately.

Which seems to be JKR's entire argument IMO. That you can't just erase biology from people who are born women, and you can't allow people to call themselves trans, which makes a mockery of the people who spend their lives fighting hard to be seen and treated as the sex they see themselves to be and actually transition.

I don't understand why more members of the trans community are not just as aggrieved as cis women about this self ID stuff. It's harmful to both.

[Niamh.]

TERFs do exist though, I think you're right in that there have been cases of 'Trans' people preying on women and using their status as a way of doing so but TERFs are basically extremists that oppose trans people in general and JK has been known to tweet support for TERFs that have been ruled in a court of law to be discriminating against trans people. TERFs are no different, in my eyes, to LGB people who oppose the T and want it abolished. It's not a word I'd use to describe just women either, any gender can be a TERF if they hold extreme views.

I do think that a lot of the problems with people abusing trans status would generally not be a thing if self diagnosis wasn't a thing. I don't think anyone should be able to say 'I am trans' and then start living as their preferred gender just because there's more to be considered than that unfortunately.

I absolutely agree with your second paragraph but I also think this is the opinion of JK Rowling and most women who bring up womens rights, it's the self ID stuff that's the main issue :shrug:

[Liam-]

I absolutely agree with your second paragraph but I also think this is the opinion of JK Rowling and most women who bring up womens rights, it's the self ID stuff that's the main issue :shrug:

Well then if self ID is the issue, why doesn’t JK and the women like her define their issues, rather than using blanket statements like trans women, they know what they’re doing when they do that, they love playing the victim when they receive abuse for their ignorance because they can play on it to try and prove their point

[Marsh.]

Well then if self ID is the issue, why doesn’t JK and the women like her define their issues, rather than using blanket statements like trans women, they know what they’re doing when they do that, they love playing the victim when they receive abuse for their ignorance because they can play on it to try and prove their point

Because the responses to her have been full of nuance and careful handling of language and respect and not just dismissing her on the grounds that she's white, cis and rich?

[Liam-]

Because the responses to her have been full of nuance and careful handling of language and respect and not just dismissing her on the grounds that she's white, cis and rich?

Yeah and they’re awful obviously, but like I said, I think that’s the reaction she seeks, they shouldn’t give it to her because it allows her to justify her feelings on trans people, they play right into her hands and they continue to every time someone says something ignorant

[Marsh.]

Yeah and they’re awful obviously, but like I said, I think that’s the reaction she seeks, they shouldn’t give it to her because it allows her to justify her feelings on trans people, they play right into her hands and they continue to every time someone says something ignorant

What feelings? Her entire issue is with self ID and the claims that biological sex doesn't exist that comes from the extreme trans activists.

Where exactly is the trans hate?

Why is a transpersons feelings on the entire topic of gender and sex the only one allowed without people being shouted down? Do transpeople deserve equality? Yes. Do they have authority on the discussion concerning those topics? No.

[Braden]

I really do feel for JK Rowling. It's like she can do no right for simply stating her opinion, and from what I gather, she's also concerned about the safety and well-being of trans women.

[Rob!]

Unless you use Reddit they can't still be a thing in 2020?

Funnily enough, lots of people think this about bigotry in general.

[Rob!]

The thing about JK's views and the whole #IStandWithJK thing is that it summons a ton of the sort of people she openly hates like flies to ****. Pretty sure the type of people who are saying they agree with her while yelling "Trans people need to shut up and deal with their choices" aren't the sort of support she'd want.

[Marsh.]

I really do feel for JK Rowling. It's like she can do no right for simply stating her opinion, and from what I gather, she's also concerned about the safety and well-being of trans women.

Exactly. Yet being told she's condoning and calling for the rape, abuse and murder of trans women. So.... not the rapist, abuser and murderers fault... but a woman's fault. Feminism has gotten a bit confused by itself. :shrug:

[Rob!]

The whole thing is yet another example of the loudest extreme sides of both sides of the liberalism and free speech brigades hurling sticks at each other while ignoring the issue that the quieter people in the middle are sort of sensibly discussing between themselves.

[Marsh.]

The whole thing is yet another example of the loudest extreme sides of both sides of the liberalism and free speech brigades hurling sticks at each other while ignoring the issue that the quieter people in the middle are sort of sensibly discussing between themselves.

Yep, and on this particular occasion they're all cis people. (kind of like in here :worry: Sorry about that).

I haven't looked back, has Scarlett offered her thoughts? I'd be interested to read them.

[Mokka]

I really do feel for JK Rowling. It's like she can do no right for simply stating her opinion, and from what I gather, she's also concerned about the safety and well-being of trans women.

Then why use Twitter and her celebrity status and wording that is questionable if not objectionable to stir up controversy and fear. That helps no one.

People are getting riled up at Emma Watson for using her celebrity platform to be a feminist, and also to oppose Rowling. It goes both ways.

[user104658]

Ehhh she is quite blatantly not a transphobe, and my genuine concern is that by refusing to debate any nuance, transpeople and those supporting aggressive denouncing of counter-opinions are going to completely derail their own battle for increased rights. People shouting "Transphooobe!" without even an attempt to justify that as a response, and of course worst, comments that she can "eat a bag of dicks" or "suck my big trans cock" - comments so obviously drenched in male violence that go largely IGNORED because people didn't like what she had to say - are going to do far more harm to the average transperson than JK Rowling seeking an open discussion a thousand times over.

[Marsh.]

Then why use Twitter and her celebrity status and wording that is questionable if not objectionable to stir up controversy and fear. That helps no one.

People are getting riled up at Emma Watson for using her celebrity platform to be a feminist, and also to oppose Rowling. It goes both ways.

Is that Emma Watson stuff aimed at me lady. :nono:

I don't object to Emma Watson being a feminist or any other of the causes she puts her name to. I object to her shallowness on the subjects. She plops herself on podiums parroting slogans and phrases getting herself a pat on the back from minority groups and other women for being a "strong advocate" but then when (like now) the cause calls for a more nuanced and detailed actual discussion on the issue, she can't. It's shallow and meaningless and shows her up for the banal ambassador she is. A face and nothing more.

I don't think JKR's words have stirred up any fear. The fear has come from the absolutely ridiculous twisting of her words.

Emma had a moment there where people were calling for her input due to the Harry Potter link and she chose it to post 2 tweets that said.... nothing at all. And by simply saying nothing other than basically "trans women are women" it's almost like she's justifying and enabling the gross twisting of JKR's own words and the backlash she has received. It's completely gross and certainly not feminist.

[Mokka]

Yep, and on this particular occasion they're all cis people. (kind of like in here :worry: Sorry about that).

I haven't looked back, has Scarlett offered her thoughts? I'd be interested to read them.

I'm not trans, but I fight and stand along side of my trans kid everyday. I'm also a woman whose rights are meant to be imposed upon. I'm voicing that I'm not in anyway afraid of losing my womanhood by a trans woman being who she is.
I stood along side a friend this week who underwent trans surgery. She has been living as a woman for years already, but has to go through all the steps to get to this week. She was a woman to me before the surgery, and she is one today post it.

[Marsh.]

I'm not trans, but I fight and stand along side of my trans kid everyday. I'm also a woman whose rights are meant to be imposed upon. I'm voicing that I'm not in anyway afraid of losing my womanhood by a trans woman being who she is.
I stood along side a friend this week who underwent trans surgery. She has been living as a woman for years already, but has to go through all the steps to get to this week. She was a woman to me before the surgery, and she is one today post it.

That's all well and good, but not exactly relating to JKR's words though?

She hasn't said transpeople are taking away her womanhood.

The activists calling for ridiculous changes where the law replaces sex with gender is the problem. Last year the debate was about gender and sex being different and now they want to replace one with the other. People are within their rights to get upset about it without being told they're completely against the other people that this concerns. As I said before, transpeople themselves should be concerned about it too, not just cis women.

[Niamh.]

The whole thing is yet another example of the loudest extreme sides of both sides of the liberalism and free speech brigades hurling sticks at each other while ignoring the issue that the quieter people in the middle are sort of sensibly discussing between themselves.Completely off topic, but I gave my father in law a few books to read over lockdown and I gave him a few of yours, he told me he loved them (that's a compliment because he told me he hated a couple of the books I gave him [emoji14] )

[Marsh.]

Completely off topic, but I gave my father in law a few books to read over lockdown and I gave him a few of yours, he told me he loved them (that's a compliment because he told me he hated a couple of the books I gave him [emoji14] )

People are easily pleased in lock down. :idc:

[Niamh.]

I mean is it wrong to not want to be referred to as person who menstrates? How come it's only descriptions of women that's changing? Has anyone seen men described as prostate owners?

[Cherie]

Erm how so darlin!

she has a gobby son! like mother like son

[Marsh.]

I mean is it wrong to not want to be referred to as person who menstrates? How come it's only descriptions of women that's changing? Has anyone seen men described as prostate owners?

:omgno:

It is ridiculous that in their quest to drop the "trans" prefix and simply be referred to as woman, they still throw about the "cis" prefix.

I don't think differentiating with either trans or cis prefixes is a problem (personally) but if you're wanting to drop one prefix, don't force one on women who are quite clearly rejecting it. :shrug:

[Rob!]

Completely off topic, but I gave my father in law a few books to read over lockdown and I gave him a few of yours, he told me he loved them (that's a compliment because he told me he hated a couple of the books I gave him [emoji14] )

Aww how lovely, thank you! And thank him from me too! :love:

[Rob!]

People are easily pleased in lock down. :idc:

Shut it Karen

[Rob!]

Did I do that right?

[Marsh.]

Prostate owner, if you must. :hmph:

[Rob!]

Prostate owner, if you must. :hmph:

Well, from prostate pleaser to prostate owner, keep your GOB SHUT.

[Marsh.]

Well, from prostate pleaser to prostate owner, keep your GOB SHUT.

https://hips.hearstapps.com/digitalspyuk.cdnds.net/17/11/1489744934-dot-shocked-computer.gif

[Braden]

Then why use Twitter and her celebrity status and wording that is questionable if not objectionable to stir up controversy and fear. That helps no one.

People are getting riled up at Emma Watson for using her celebrity platform to be a feminist, and also to oppose Rowling. It goes both ways.

See, I genuinely don't see it as a means of causing controversy or fear. As far as I'm concerned, both JK Rowling and Emma Watson should be able to say whatever they like on social media.

[Niamh.]

See, I genuinely don't see it as a means of causing controversy or fear. As far as I'm concerned, both JK Rowling and Emma Watson should be able to say whatever they like on social media.As do I but I still think she could have mentioned that the abuse JK was getting wasnt right, leaving that out is almost the same is saying its justified and I hope that's not what she was saying

[Niamh.]

Aww how lovely, thank you! And thank him from me too! :love:Will do :love:

[Marsh.]

As do I but I still think she could have mentioned that the abuse JK was getting was right, leaving that out is almost the same is saying its justified and I hope that's not what she was saying

That would require her to actually add substance to her words.

She's basically a "L'Oreal girl for feminism", she doesn't do much.

[user104658]

Is that Emma Watson stuff aimed at me lady. :nono:

I don't object to Emma Watson being a feminist or any other of the causes she puts her name to. I object to her shallowness on the subjects. She plops herself on podiums parroting slogans and phrases getting herself a pat on the back from minority groups and other women for being a "strong advocate" but then when (like now) the cause calls for a more nuanced and detailed actual discussion on the issue, she can't. It's shallow and meaningless and shows her up for the banal ambassador she is. A face and nothing more.

I don't think JKR's words have stirred up any fear. The fear has come from the absolutely ridiculous twisting of her words.

Emma had a moment there where people were calling for her input due to the Harry Potter link and she chose it to post 2 tweets that said.... nothing at all. And by simply saying nothing other than basically "trans women are women" it's almost like she's justifying and enabling the gross twisting of JKR's own words and the backlash she has received. It's completely gross and certainly not feminist.I agree with Marsh here (yuk!).

My issue with the Potter franchise kids is not that they have differing opinions to JK Rowling... It's that they haven't bothered to - or don't have the ability to - engage her in discussion about it directly to express what it is they disagree with. Beyond that, they haven't even publicly managed to state a case in their own words for why they specifically disagree with her, when they're some of the few people who have a valid platform to do just that.

All they've done is pop their heads up, bleat a group-think mantra which I'm sorry I just cannot ****ing stand. Catchphrases for people who can't articulate their own thoughts to parrot "in support of X, Y, Z"... No. No thank you. As your ol primary school teacher might have said... "show your working". They say that for a reason. You show your reasoning so that people know you understand what you're saying and didn't copy it from the person sat next to you... Because if you did, you don't get the marks.

So yes, anyway, off track a little: I'm repulsed by the response of the Potter kids because it wasn't the personal or thought out response of people who actually give a ****, it was the parroted response of a group of celebrities who are worried that their own image might be attached to JK Rowling and are keen to express otherwise, to appease the fan base, and I imagine to protect their own image. It is shallow. I have very little time for it.

[Braden]

As do I but I still think she could have mentioned that the abuse JK was getting wasnt right, leaving that out is almost the same is saying its justified and I hope that's not what she was saying

Yeah, I agree with you. However, that would mean she'd have to be gutsy enough to go against the mob mentality online.

It's terrible, really, especially on Twitter. You're vilified when you do give your opinion but you're also called out for your silence.

[Marsh.]

I agree with Marsh here (yuk!)

https://media.giphy.com/media/3o7btTf1GKvnBLSjfO/giphy.gif

[Marsh.]

I agree with Marsh here (yuk!).

My issue with the Potter franchise kids is not that they have differing opinions to JK Rowling... It's that they haven't bothered to - or don't have the ability to - engage her in discussion about it directly to express what it is they disagree with. Beyond that, they haven't even publicly managed to state a case in their own words for why they specifically disagree with her, when they're some of the few people who have a valid platform to do just that.

All they've done is pop their heads up, bleat a group-think mantra which I'm sorry I just cannot ****ing stand. Catchphrases for people who can't articulate their own thoughts to parrot "in support of X, Y, Z"... No. No thank you. As your ol primary school teacher might have said... "show your working". They say that for a reason. You show your reasoning so that people know you understand what you're saying and didn't copy it from the person sat next to you... Because if you did, you don't get the marks.

So yes, anyway, off track a little: I'm repulsed by the response of the Potter kids because it wasn't the personal or thought out response of people who actually give a ****, it was the parroted response of a group of celebrities who are worried that their own image might be attached to JK Rowling and are keen to express otherwise, to appease the fan base, and I imagine to protect their own image. It is shallow. I have very little time for it.

Exactly. This "ambassador for women's rights" had a moment to... be an ambassador for women's rights and got her PA to roll out a stock PR answer from the "basic phrases" handbook.

I found Daniel Radcliffe's response laughable too when he basically told people he was sorry she'd ruined the books for them. Apologising on her behalf AND justifying their "hatred" of her but without saying why. That does not work on so many levels.

[user104658]

Exactly. This "ambassador for women's rights" had a moment to... be an ambassador for women's rights and got her PA to roll out a stock PR answer from the "basic phrases" handbook.

I found Daniel Radcliffe's response laughable too when he basically told people he was sorry she'd ruined the books for them. Apologising on her behalf AND justifying their "hatred" of her but without saying why. That does not work on so many levels.I'm mainly baffled by the idea that you have to agree with a creative to enjoy their material. I mean... So many things I've loved - books, music (so much music lol), so many films and TV shows, created by people who personally I think are objectively just awful but when did it become the case that you're only allowed to enjoy entertainment created by people you agree with politically? I'd just be sat here doing nothing all the time :joker:.

[Rob!]

Exactly. This "ambassador for women's rights" had a moment to... be an ambassador for women's rights and got her PA to roll out a stock PR answer from the "basic phrases" handbook.

I found Daniel Radcliffe's response laughable too when he basically told people he was sorry she'd ruined the books for them. Apologising on her behalf AND justifying their "hatred" of her but without saying why. That does not work on so many levels.

Which in itself sort of says to people, don't hate me because I'm the face of Harry Potter who reminds you of that nasty lady who wants all trans people dead in your eyes, cause I love you, honest!

I'm sure that isn't the case, but yeah, it does make it extremely easy to be cynical.

[Marsh.]

Which in itself sort of says to people, don't hate me because I'm the face of Harry Potter who reminds you of that nasty lady who wants all trans people dead in your eyes, cause I love you, honest!

I'm sure that isn't the case, but yeah, it does make it extremely easy to be cynical.

Exactly.

The progressive and the conservative are kind of merging into one huge fascist voice and it's disturbing.

Another funny one was all the tweets all bleating about how "She didn't learn from her own stories about love" and it seems they missed the big ****ing allegory on fascism right at the heart of them. :joker:

[Rob!]

Exactly.

The progressive and the conservative are kind of merging into one huge fascist voice and it's disturbing.

Another funny one was all the tweets all bleating about how "She didn't learn from her own stories about love" and it seems they missed the big ****ing allegory on fascism right at the heart of them. :joker:

The best was an article by Pink News which is one of the leading media outlets in terms of news affecting the LGBTQ community which basically accused her of planting the seeds of transphobia in Prisoner of Azkaban when Neville makes the Boggart Snape dress up in his grandmother's dresses. Yes, really. I swiftly unfollowed them having been a reader of them for a good few years.

[Marsh.]

The best was an article by Pink News which is one of the leading media outlets in terms of news affecting the LGBTQ community which basically accused her of planting the seeds of transphobia in Prisoner of Azkaban when Neville makes the Boggart Snape dress up in his grandmother's dresses. Yes, really. I swiftly unfollowed them having been a reader of them for a good few years.

:skull: Not them fighting for us to dispense with gender stereotypes but then reinforcing them by suggesting a man wearing a dress is trans.

Or the ones accusing her of it because she has a male pseudonym.

[Niamh.]

Some balance from a transsexual themselves. :think:

https://thepostmillennial.com/jk-rowling-transphobic-youre-just-sensitive

Making the valid point that if biological sex doesn't exist, kind of invalidates trans people too as they "transition" for a reason.

The claim that JK has poured hatred and justified violence against transpeople is one of the more laughable claims I've heard.Oh I've watched some of Blairs videos, I really like her

[Tom4784]

Oh I've watched some of Blairs videos, I really like her

She has some interesting insights on trans people, especially considering she is one herself but she's pretty vile outside of that. She's a Trump supporter, she opposed Black Lives Matter and she lied about being victimised at an anti-trump Protest when she crossed the divide and basically kickstarted the altercation herself. She's basically a token minority voice for the right, sadly.

[Kizzy]

Wow it seems a bit base to be reduced to a bleeding uterus....
Where I can see an argument worthy of agreeing with is the Germain Greer one where she argues womanhood (and obv manhood) is a whole life experience shaped by socialisation.

[Niamh.]

She has some interesting insights on trans people, especially considering she is one herself but she's pretty vile outside of that. She's a Trump supporter, she opposed Black Lives Matter and she lied about being victimised at an anti-trump Protest when she crossed the divide and basically kickstarted the altercation herself. She's basically a token minority voice for the right, sadly.Oh dear ok.

I see the Sun has been heavily criticised for giving a voice to a domestic violence perpetrator by Domestic Abuse Charities, glad to hear that

[Beso]

She has some interesting insights on trans people, especially considering she is one herself but she's pretty vile outside of that. She's a Trump supporter, she opposed Black Lives Matter and she lied about being victimised at an anti-trump Protest when she crossed the divide and basically kickstarted the altercation herself. She's basically a token minority voice for the right, sadly.



It's not like you to hold back dezzy...::shrug:

[Kizzy]

So... Disneys jungle book is for the chop then?

[Tom4784]

Oh dear ok.

I see the Sun has been heavily criticised for giving a voice to a domestic violence perpetrator by Domestic Abuse Charities, glad to hear that

It's a shame really, I have seen clips on issues where she seems quite switched on but she's made her fortune basically telling the right wing what they want to hear. It undermines the things she says that are spot on when she's basically a trans voice for hire.

Yeah, it's unbelievable that they'd do that but then again, it's The Sun. I will always be happy to see it getting dragged through the mud. JK Rowling has annoyed me for years but they shouldn't use the public's dislike of her to give an abuser a platform.

[Niamh.]

The actress who played Luna initially posted a similar tweet as the other HP actors, then she posted another saying the abuse JK Rowling was getting was too much....she then had to delete her account because of the abuse she got herself for saying that

https://www.reddit.com/r/GenderCritical/comments/h7oipe/evanna_lynch_deleted_her_twitter_account_after/

[Cherie]

The actress who played Luna initially posted a similar tweet as the other HP actors, then she posted another saying the abuse JK Rowling was getting was too much....she then had to delete her account because of the abuse she got herself for saying that

https://www.reddit.com/r/GenderCritical/comments/h7oipe/evanna_lynch_deleted_her_twitter_account_after/

why do people post on that cesspit, she has done herself a favour

[user104658]

why do people post on that cesspit, she has done herself a favour

I honestly believe that early-21st-century Social Media will be looked back on by historians as an absolute disaster. Forget Trump, forget Farage, forget Katie Hopkins and Tommy Robinson and the countless others... the common thread in the descent into competing tribes of dumb hive-mind ****ing nonsense is Social Media. Full stop.

[Niamh.]

I honestly believe that early-21st-century Social Media will be looked back on by historians as an absolute disaster. Forget Trump, forget Farage, forget Katie Hopkins and Tommy Robinson and the countless others... the common thread in the descent into competing tribes of dumb hive-mind ****ing nonsense is Social Media. Full stop.Yeah for sure.

[Marsh.]

The actress who played Luna initially posted a similar tweet as the other HP actors, then she posted another saying the abuse JK Rowling was getting was too much....she then had to delete her account because of the abuse she got herself for saying that

https://www.reddit.com/r/GenderCritical/comments/h7oipe/evanna_lynch_deleted_her_twitter_account_after/

Just reading about this now, apparently she shared last year about how she became penpals with JKR before getting a role in the films and she helped her through an eating disorder.

Fair play to her for giving her own response and not one her publicist typed for her.

[James]

Social media was alright when it was about staying in touch with friends and family / local community / people with similar interests, and posting about your day etc.

When people / groups realised it could be used to promote or comment on issues it's been disastrous.

[Kizzy]

Social media was alright when it was about staying in touch with friends and family / local community / people with similar interests, and posting about your day etc.

When people / groups realised it could be used to promote or comment on issues it's been disastrous.

I agree, as a way to keep in touch with old friends and extended family it's great.... it's when strangers start sharing views the drama starts....lol!

[Oliver_W]

Social media is pretty toxic these days.

I actually saw twitter threads were people were naming and "shaming" children's writers who hadn't tweeted about BLM :joker: it's like, get a grip, maybe they have actual lives?

[user104658]

Social media is pretty toxic these days.

I actually saw twitter threads were people were naming and "shaming" children's writers who hadn't tweeted about BLM :joker: it's like, get a grip, maybe they have actual lives?

Yes there is a developing culture of "silence = a statement" which is just ridiculous. The idea that everyone MUST keep up to date with all current events and political movements at all times or their views on it will be assumed.

Really just far safer for public figures to not have social media accounts in the first place, so it can't be demanded that they pass comment like it's some sort of duty.

[Niamh.]

Back to the point about why it's only women who are being reduced to bodily functions/body parts

4968

[Niamh.]

Just reading a story online and thought I would post it here, this is not on, the woman must have been terrified, she was followed home by a man and harrassed, her car license plate identified and everyone immediately believes the man's version when it turns out, this guy has form for doing stuff like this and has been cautioned by police previously.

https://tbdailynews.com/ig-influencer-harasses-follows-home-and-doxxes-woman-as-a-karen-for-giving-him-the-middle-finger-during-traffic-dispute/

IG Influencer Harasses, Follows Home, And Doxxes Woman As A “Karen” For Giving Him The Middle Finger During Traffic Dispute

https://i0.wp.com/tbdailynews.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/Screen-Shot-2020-06-23-at-2.59.17-PM.png?resize=780%2C405&ssl=1

Karlos decided that he was going to try to ruin a woman’s life yesterday after she allegedly (gasp) gave him the finger in traffic. He followed her home, got up in her space, called her Karen, filmed her, and harassed her, as she embarrassingly begged him not to post it on the Internet.

Shaming Karens started as something fun, but has turned into a way for society to pile on white women. There’s no such thing as a multicultural Karen. By definition they must be white. It’s funny because usually the Karens are dreadful creatures, but just imagine doing this to any other race of women. Imagine what would happen if white men went around filming black women, calling them Laqueesha, and then mocking them on social media. But the rules of social justice tell us that we’re only allowed to mock white women, so this is OK.
What he did to this woman is pretty disgusting, and in a sane world he’d get his ass whooped for it.

“Why did I get flipped off?”
Probably because you’re horrible.
According to his story she was completely in the right. He admits that he merged onto a highway from the right and she wouldn’t let him in so he had to wait and then jump in behind her.

This is not cutting someone off. It’s following the rules of the road. He also admits to tailgating, prompting her to justifiably give him the middle finger. But I guess the rules don’t apply to Karlos because he’s “marginalized,” or something.
Once he begins live streaming on IG he all of a sudden mentions that she was doing “racial ****.” How do you do “racial ****” while driving, if he can’t hear what she said? This is the new thing people do to justify horrible and sometimes criminal behavior – claim that you were called the n word. Because there is no bigger crime than calling someone the n word, and any behavior that results from it is justified. This includes creating a mob to stalk and harass a woman.

Notice that he gets up in her personal space during a pandemic, she puts her hands up and he yells, “don’t touch me.” He was the aggressor here, not her. He was the one that was so butthurt over getting the middle finger that he filmed himself following this woman home like a psychopath.
It’s obviously humiliating for this woman because she freaked out and yelled “I have a black husband.” SJW mobs want you to say that you have a black friend or a black kid or a black husband, because they like going after these people even more than they do overt racists.
He posted another video showing her license plate and address for the purpose of doxxing her, hoping that her life would be ruined like that woman from Central Park that the mob destroyed last month.

His tone is what annoys me off the most. This is a man talking to a woman. He screams and yells at her and he gets away with it because he’s gay. Newsflash – just because you’re homosexual, doesn’t mean you’re not a man. You don’t get to treat a woman like this because you think you’re one of the girls.
“You’re trying to ruin my life and you don’t even know me.”

“He wants to call me a Karen and put it online.”

That lady is well aware of Internet outrage culture. She knows what a Karen is, and she may have even enjoyed watching other Karens get roasted. She immediately realized while this was happening that she was about to be the next one, she knew the implications this could have on her job and life, and she was freaking out. It’s funny to laugh at her, but considering what this can do to a person’s life it really wasn’t that much of an overreaction.

[Cherie]

What a time to be alive eh? And this is progress :joker:

[Liam-]

She cut him off, brake checked him, flipped him off and was racist to him, he had every right to confront her, she played a fool and started hollering that he was attacking her When he was nowhere near her, knowing what that would like like for him, I don’t agree with doxxing, I think it should be illegal, but I have very little sympathy for racists that freak out because they get confronted over it, she’s a clown

[Cherie]

We love wild Karen sightings

Actually anybody can be a Karen, Karen is a mindset

She cut him off, brake checked him, flipped him off and was racist to him, he had every right to confront her, she played a fool and started hollering that he was attacking her When he was nowhere near her, knowing what that would like like for him, I don’t agree with doxxing, I think it should be illegal, but I have very little sympathy for racists that freak out because they get confronted over it, she’s a clown

According to his story she was completely in the right. He admits that he merged onto a highway from the right and she wouldn’t let him in so he had to wait and then jump in behind her.

This is not cutting someone off. It’s following the rules of the road. He also admits to tailgating, prompting her to justifiably give him the middle finger. But I guess the rules don’t apply to Karlos because he’s “marginalized,” or something.
Once he begins live streaming on IG he all of a sudden mentions that she was doing “racial ****.” How do you do “racial ****” while driving, if he can’t hear what she said? This is the new thing people do to justify horrible and sometimes criminal behavior – claim that you were called the n word. Because there is no bigger crime than calling someone the n word, and any behavior that results from it is justified. This includes creating a mob to stalk and harass a woman.


.

[Niamh.]

She cut him off, brake checked him, flipped him off and was racist to him, he had every right to confront her, she played a fool and started hollering that he was attacking her When he was nowhere near her, knowing what that would like like for him, I don’t agree with doxxing, I think it should be illegal, but I have very little sympathy for racists that freak out because they get confronted over it, she’s a clown

Did you read the article?

"According to his story she was completely in the right. He admits that he merged onto a highway from the right and she wouldn’t let him in so he had to wait and then jump in behind her.
This is not cutting someone off. It’s following the rules of the road. He also admits to tailgating, prompting her to justifiably give him the middle finger. But I guess the rules don’t apply to Karlos because he’s “marginalized,” or something.
Once he begins live streaming on IG he all of a sudden mentions that she was doing “racial ****.” How do you do “racial ****” while driving, if he can’t hear what she said? This is the new thing people do to justify horrible and sometimes criminal behavior – claim that you were called the n word. Because there is no bigger crime than calling someone the n word, and any behavior that results from it is justified. This includes creating a mob to stalk and harass a woman."

[Cherie]

So now white women have to let any nob cut in front in case this happens? Is that how you see it Liam?

[Liam-]

I read it, it’s an opinion piece, it basically says black people feign racism to get away with crimes

[Liam-]

So now white women have to let any nob cut in front in case this happens? Is that how you see it Liam?

No, but people shouldn’t have to deal with racism either

[Cherie]

No, but people shouldn’t have to deal with racism either

So one justifies the other,? there is no suggestion she is being racist, she was in a vehicle in front...she gave him the finger...how is that racist?

[Niamh.]

I read it, it’s an opinion piece, it basically says black people feign racism to get away with crimes

No, it says this man feigned racism to get social media fame, he has form for doing similar in the past and has been cautioned by Police for harassing people. His Twitter account has been shut down because of this video apparently

[Liam-]

So one justifies the other,? there is no suggestion she is being racist, she was in a vehicle in front...she gave him the finger...how is that racist?

He claims she called him the n-word

[Niamh.]

He claims she called him the n-word

How would he know what she said while driving in front of him on motorway? And why do you automatically believe him rather than her?

[Liam-]

No, it says this man feigned racism to get social media fame, he has form for doing similar in the past and has been cautioned by Police for harassing people. His Twitter account has been shut down because of this video apparently

‘This is the new thing people do to justify horrible and sometimes criminal behavior – claim that you were called the n word. Because there is no bigger crime than calling someone the n word, and any behavior that results from it is justified. This includes creating a mob to stalk and harass a woman.‘

A very broad statement to discuss one man.

The entire article screams ‘white lives matter’

[Niamh.]

‘This is the new thing people do to justify horrible and sometimes criminal behavior – claim that you were called the n word. Because there is no bigger crime than calling someone the n word, and any behavior that results from it is justified. This includes creating a mob to stalk and harass a woman.‘

A very broad statement to discuss one man.

The entire article screams ‘white lives matter’

OK forget about the article, what about the situation itself, the twitter thread, the woman is being harassed and is terrified when apparently it was the man who had been in the wrong in the traffic incident. And this is a thing, that it's OK because she's a white woman of a certain age so is probably the one in the wrong because of that

https://twitter.com/wypipo_h8/status/1275228765941977089

[Oliver_W]

Calling someone the N-word is a pretty ugly thing to do, but it doesn't warrant doxxing someone and ruining their life. The latter is much worse.

[Niamh.]

Calling someone the N-word is a pretty ugly thing to do, but it doesn't warrant doxxing someone and ruining their life. The latter is much worse.

There is no evidence that she even said that as well. I don't know how he could possibly have known what the woman was saying while he was driving behind her on a motorway

[Liam-]

How would he know what she said while driving in front of him on motorway? And why do you automatically believe him rather than her?

Why do you believe her over him?

Her reaction says a lot to me, she automatically knew what his complaint was, she automatically knew what the reaction would be from the public, she automatically knew what she would be labelled as and rather than have a discussion with him, like he was willing to do in the video, she screamed like a banshee so everyone could hear that he was ‘attacking’ her, we all know why she did that

[Liam-]

Calling someone the N-word is a pretty ugly thing to do, but it doesn't warrant doxxing someone and ruining their life. The latter is much worse.

Doxxing is awful and shouldn’t be a thing we can agree on that, but if people want to be openly racist and have no qualms about it, then they should face repercussions

[Liam-]

There is no evidence that she even said that as well. I don't know how he could possibly have known what the woman was saying while he was driving behind her on a motorway

He said she was following him at one point and then he followed her, they could have passed each other at some point, but then there’s no evidence on either side and you’re perfectly willing to call him a liar

[Cherie]

OK forget about the article, what about the situation itself, the twitter thread, the woman is being harassed and is terrified when apparently it was the man who had been in the wrong in the traffic incident. And this is a thing, that it OK because she's a white woman of a certain age so is probably the one in the wrong because of that

https://twitter.com/wypipo_h8/status/1275228765941977089

Thats fine Niamh, the general feeling is she deserved it as she is a white woman over 30, maybe we need to don our Handmaids Tale hats and be done with it because we can no longer speak our minds even when we are in the right without being ridiculed online by people who claim to be from an inclusive progressive generation :joker:

[AnnieK]

Doxxing is awful and shouldn’t be a thing we can agree on that, but if people want to be openly racist and have no qualms about it, then they should face repercussions

There is absolutely nothing to say this woman was racist, openly or covertly though. He would have no way of knowing if she said anything or not in her car and she obviously didn't say anything racist when they were arguing as it was streaming and his followers would have heard.

[Liam-]

OK forget about the article, what about the situation itself, the twitter thread, the woman is being harassed and is terrified when apparently it was the man who had been in the wrong in the traffic incident. And this is a thing, that it's OK because she's a white woman of a certain age so is probably the one in the wrong because of that

https://twitter.com/wypipo_h8/status/1275228765941977089

If he was in the wrong, does that warrant her being racist towards him?

It’s not about these people being white women, it’s about people feeling entitled to be racist and abusive towards people without fear of any comeback, ‘Karen’ can be a man in his 20’s it doesn’t matter, it’s the attitude they have is the problem, the only people making out to be a racial thing are the ones desperate to defend the offenders

[Cherie]

If he was in the wrong, does that warrant her being racist towards him?

It’s not about these people being white women, it’s about people feeling entitled to be racist and abusive towards people without fear of any comeback, ‘Karen’ can be a man in his 20’s it doesn’t matter, it’s the attitude they have is the problem, the only people making out to be a racial thing are the ones desperate to defend the offenders

Following a woman home and filming where she lives as well as her number plate and posting online can never be justified, even if she did slur him which is debatable

[Liam-]

Following a woman home and filming where she lives as well as her number plate and posting online can never be justified, even if she did slur him which is debatable

Doxxing is gross like I have said, but I’m not gonna feel too much sympathy for someone that pretends that she’s being ‘attacked’ by a black person when they’re called out on their behaviour

But what if he followed a man home? Would he be getting the same defence and concern as this woman is, somehow I don’t think so.

[Liam-]

Also, that account was suspended because his banner violated their services, not any of his content

[user104658]

There is literally no excuse for following someone to their home and filming it + their car reg to post online, and this guy has former as a professional troll... and MAGA supporter. I think you're backing the wrong horse on this one Liam.

[Niamh.]

Also, that account was suspended because his banner violated their services, not any of his contentWell it should have been because of his content considering he put her home and license plate on there

[Liam-]

There is literally no excuse for following someone to their home and filming it + their car reg to post online, and this guy has former as a professional troll... and MAGA supporter. I think you're backing the wrong horse on this one Liam.

I’ve already said I disagree with that

[Beso]

He said she said....


Meh!!!

[Beso]

Calling someone the N-word is a pretty ugly thing to do, but it doesn't warrant doxxing someone and ruining their life. The latter is much worse.

Plenty people of all colours use that n word.:shrug:

Some colours get away with using it as a racial slur though.

[user104658]

I’ve already said I disagree with thatWith a big "but she deserved it" attached, no proof that she was actually racist, and little care for the fact that he's been trying desperately to "go viral by any means" for years.

We have no idea what happened before the camera started rolling and thus, I have no idea if she did anything wrong. I do know that he's doing something wrong.

I also fully understand why, in the current climate, she would be that scared about being filmed and put online... You can get a home address from a car reg and a claim with zero evidence can ruin your life.

It's a mess.

[Liam-]

With a big "but she deserved it" attached, no proof that she was actually racist, and little care for the fact that he's been trying desperately to "go viral by any means" for years.

We have no idea what happened before the camera started rolling and thus, I have no idea if she did anything wrong. I do know that he's doing something wrong.

I also fully understand why, in the current climate, she would be that scared about being filmed and put online... You can get a home address from a car reg and a claim with zero evidence can ruin your life.

It's a mess.

He shouldn’t have followed her home ive said that, but for me she lost any moral high ground when she started loudly claiming he was attacking her, when he wasn’t, to garner false support from around her, that could have ruined his life if he wasn’t recording, if one of her neighbours heard that and phoned the police saying a neighbour was being attacked by a black man, what do we think would have happened?

You’re right, we have no evidence of her racism, I don’t know this mans history, but we also don’t know for sure she wasn’t racist, he shouldn’t have followed her home, he was wrong for that, but she used the very typical tactic of falsely accusing a black person of ‘attacking’ her, they were both wrong

[Niamh.]

Doxxing is gross like I have said, but I’m not gonna feel too much sympathy for someone that pretends that she’s being ‘attacked’ by a black person when they’re called out on their behaviour

But what if he followed a man home? Would he be getting the same defence and concern as this woman is, somehow I don’t think so.Just regarding your last paragraph, I don't know is the answer as it's hypothetical. Is it worse that she's a woman and he's a man? maybe/maybe not, neither is good but I can only look at it from a woman's point of view, I would certainly feel scared if a man i didn't know followed me home and started harrassing me

[user104658]

He shouldn’t have followed her home ive said that, but for me she lost any moral high ground when she started loudly claiming he was attacking her, when he wasn’t, to garner false support from around her, that could have ruined his life if he wasn’t recording, if one of her neighbours heard that and phoned the police saying a neighbour was being attacked by a black man, what do we think would have happened?



You’re right, we have no evidence of her racism, I don’t know this mans history, but we also don’t know for sure she wasn’t racist, he shouldn’t have followed her home, he was wrong for that, but she used the very typical tactic of falsely accusing a black person of ‘attacking’ her, they were both wrongHe followed her, put a camera in her face, made accusations, recorded her home and vehicle and was clear that he was streaming it online. He undeniably WAS attacking her, an attack doesn't have to be physical? Also he specifically talked about how she had "flipped him off" and then later added when confronted by someone else that she called him a n_? But didn't mention that as his reason for following her? Seems a bit odd? If you actually listen to the video, when he asks her why she's so hysterical and what he's actually done to her, she says "you're trying to ruin my life and you don't even know me".

Doxxing like this costs people their careers and reputations and can literally destroy lives. And no, there doesn't need to be ANY evidence to support the claim for that to happen. Her fear is completely justified.

Honestly, following someone to their home because they've given you the finger from their car after a minor traffic incident is utterly ****ing mental. *I* would be pretty scared and have my guard up, and I'm a 6'2 bloke.

Personally I think if you're passionate about a cause you should be wary of people hijacking the cause for their own less-savoury reasons, because its inevitable. Look this guy up.

[AnnieK]

He also had music on in his car and she was driving with a mask on. So he couldn't lip read any racial slurs and how far could her voice have carried?

[Liam-]

He followed her, put a camera in her face, made accusations, recorded her home and vehicle and was clear that he was streaming it online. He undeniably WAS attacking her, an attack doesn't have to be physical? Also he specifically talked about how she had "flipped him off" and then later added when confronted by someone else that she called him a n_? But didn't mention that as his reason for following her? Seems a bit odd? If you actually listen to the video, when he asks her why she's so hysterical and what he's actually done to her, she says "you're trying to ruin my life and you don't even know me".

Doxxing like this costs people their careers and reputations and can literally destroy lives. And no, there doesn't need to be ANY evidence to support the claim for that to happen. Her fear is completely justified.

Honestly, following someone to their home because they've given you the finger from their car after a minor traffic incident is utterly ****ing mental. *I* would be pretty scared and have my guard up, and I'm a 6'2 bloke.

Personally I think if you're passionate about a cause you should be wary of people hijacking the cause for their own less-savoury reasons, because its inevitable. Look this guy up.

Like I said, I agree that he shouldn’t have followed her home, idk why you’re continuing to lecture me about that, we’re on the same page about that, I’m judging this one incident, he was wrong and her behaviour when she was confronted was wrong imo, he was willing to have a discussion as could be heard in the video and she preferred to say he was attacking her, there’s no doubt in my mind why she did that, it’s a very common tactic used to demonise black people when they have a gripe, was she racist? Nobody knows,, ultimately he was wrong for what he did, he might be a grifter idk

[Niamh.]

Like I said, I agree that he shouldn’t have followed her home, idk why you’re continuing to lecture me about that, we’re on the same page about that, I’m judging this one incident, he was wrong and her behaviour when she was confronted was wrong imo, he was willing to have a discussion as could be heard in the video and she preferred to say he was attacking her, there’s no doubt in my mind why she did that, it’s a very common tactic used to demonise black people when they have a gripe, was she racist? Nobody knows,, ultimately he was wrong for what he did, he might be a grifter idkYou don't think she would have felt equally threatened if it were a white man who followed her home like that? I do

[Kizzy]

Sounds like plain old Road rage to me, I'm used to people driving like a knob around my Lil micra I'm not gonna lie and say I've never gone bumper to bumper to stop some twonk nipping in front of me then pointed and laughed at them.... luckily I've never been followed home :/
Yes they were both guilty of driving aggressively, he took the incident waaay way too far!

[Liam-]

You don't think she would have felt equally threatened if it were a white man who followed her home like that? I do

I don’t think so no, not to the level she acted in this scenario anyway

[Niamh.]

Absolutely notYou've clearly never been a woman then [emoji23]

[Liam-]

You've clearly never been a woman then [emoji23]

Cause only women can feel threatened?

[Niamh.]

Cause only women can feel threatened?That isn't what I said

[Liam-]

That isn't what I said

What difference does it make that I’m a man?

[AnnieK]

I don’t think so no, not to the level she acted in this scenario anyway

If someone was getting out of a car filming you,white or black you would immediately be on your guard and / or threatened.....especially outside your home surely :shrug:

[Niamh.]

What difference does it make that I’m a man?I don't know Liam, what do you think? I would assume that in general women spend a lot more of their lives worrying about being attacked or followed by men. Do you worry about that often?

[Liam-]

I don't know Liam, what do you think? I would assume that in general women spend a lot more of their lives worrying about being attacked or followed by men. Do you worry about that often?

As a gay man yes I do have to worry about being followed and and attacked by people, so what’s your point?

[Cherie]

As a gay man yes I do have to worry about being followed and and attacked by people, so what’s your point?

That you should be able to identify with someone being physically harassed? Ask yourself would he have followed a man home?

[Liam-]

That you should be able to identify with someone being physically harassed? Ask yourself would he have followed a man home?

I have said countless times was definitely wrong for following her home, would he have followed a man home? Idk, if he’s as much of a grifter as people say he is, I’d assume he might do

[Niamh.]

As a gay man yes I do have to worry about being followed and and attacked by people, so what’s your point?Then you should definitely not think that a woman would feel less threatened by a man who followed her home and started harassing her because he's white. When you worry about being followed or attacked by a man, does his skin colour come in to it?

[Oliver_W]

I don't know Liam, what do you think? I would assume that in general women spend a lot more of their lives worrying about being attacked or followed by men. Do you worry about that often?

Men get physically assaulted more often than women get raped.

[Liam-]

Then you should definitely not think that a woman would feel less threatened by a man who followed her home and started harassing her because he's white. When you worry about being followed or attacked by a man, does his skin colour come in to it?

I didn’t say she’d feel less threatened if a white man followed her, I said I don’t think she’d act the same way if a white man followed her, I don’t think she’d scream that she was being ‘attacked’ at the top of her lungs, if the man was white

[Cherie]

I have said countless times was definitely wrong for following her home, would he have followed a man home? Idk, if he’s as much of a grifter as people say he is, I’d assume he might do

Well you have but then you justify his behaviour because he said she slurred him

[Cherie]

I didn’t say she’d feel less threatened if a white man followed her, I said I don’t think she’d act the same way if a white man followed her, I don’t think she’d scream that she was being ‘attacked’ at the top of her lungs, if the man was white

You serious, if a man of any description followed me home I would be screaming blue murder

[Liam-]

Well you have but then you justify his behaviour because he said she slurred him

He had the right to confront her if she was being racist, he shouldn’t however have followed her home to do so, I don’t know how much simpler I can make it

[Niamh.]

Men get physically assaulted more often than women get raped.Maybe, I Don't know the statistics, however in a one on one situation in most cases a woman is going to have a seriously lower chance of being able to defend herself than a man would. Its an actual thing women worry about, are you honestly saying men worry about it as much or more?

[GoldHeart]

I saw some "Karen" videos on YouTube involving racism and general angry meltdowns. These people are crazy ,and they don't even care they're being filmed and exposed :crazy: :facepalm:

[Cherie]

I saw some "Karen" videos on YouTube involving racism and general angry meltdowns. These people are crazy ,and they don't even care they're being filmed and exposed :crazy: :facepalm:

Were they followed home?

[Liam-]

Maybe, I Don't know the statistics, however in a one on one situation in most cases a woman is going to have a seriously lower chance of being able to defend herself than a man would. Its an actual thing women worry about, are you honestly saying men worry about it as much or more?

A lot of gay men do yeah, we have to be on our toes, it’s not just a woman thing

Were they followed home?

The majority are encountered in the wild, so are perfectly acceptable to confront and document

[Niamh.]

A lot of gay men do yeah, we have to be on our toes, it’s not just a woman thing







The majority are encountered in the wild, so are perfectly acceptable to confront and documentWell you should absolutely understand then

[GoldHeart]

Were they followed home?

No the ones I saw involved anger over parking and anger over someone stretching on some steps, really pathetic petty stuff .

Oh and there was one where a guy was just stood filming and a "Karen" decided to tell him he's not allowed to stand there and film ::joker: :rolleyes: they went back and forth then it cut off .

[Beso]

I saw some "Karen" videos on YouTube involving racism and general angry meltdowns. These people are crazy ,and they don't even care they're being filmed and exposed :crazy: :facepalm:

You should listen to some early hip hop music...start with tim dog

[user104658]

The problem with all of this justification, is that examples of extreme individuals are being passed around on social media so that they start to seem like that's "likely" or "normal" and are then used to categorise & harass people who have nothing to do with any of it. The whole thing is infused with aggression and gang mentality and it's not a good look on anyone.

I think for me, to answer the thrwat topic at this point... The nicknaming and stereotyping is needless, damaging, and yet another symptom of banal social media group-think and tribalism. Bin social media. Bin the name-calling. Fling all of it to ****, its the worst of human nature in digital form.

[Cherie]

A lot of gay men do yeah, we have to be on our toes, it’s not just a woman thing



The majority are encountered in the wild, so are perfectly acceptable to confront and document

Actually I think it should be an offence to film people without consent but that is another issue

[Cherie]

No the ones I saw involved anger over parking and anger over someone stretching on some steps, really pathetic petty stuff .

Oh and there was one where a guy was just stood filming and a "Karen" decided to tell him he's not allowed to stand there and film ::joker: :rolleyes: they went back and forth then it cut off .

Would you be happy to be filmed without your consent?

say if you lay injured in the road, would you be happy people were filming you for likes rather than calling an ambulance, because that is where we are at right now?

[user104658]

Actually I think it should be an offence to film people without consent but that is another issueI thi k the general rules are fine as they are but I think they should be more strictly enforced when they're broken.

The general rule is that it's OK to film someone when there's no expectation of privacy. So a public high street, a shop, a bar... Clearly public spaces and its reasonable to expect people to behave like they ARE being watched at all times.

Following someone home and filming them in the street outside their home to post online quite obviously does not fall under that category, and should be taken very seriously. Whether it's being done by the press (as it often is) or the Twitter paparazzi.

[Tom4784]

Men get physically assaulted more often than women get raped.

There is absolutely no way you can prove that to be true since the only stats available are the attacks that have been reported, there's plenty of victims who haven't come forward for a plethora of reasons.

[James]

Twitter has been really wild recently - celebrities being cancelled left, right and centre and accusations being levelled all over the place.

One of the main problems is a rush to judgement... as well as an unreliable standard of information.

[Beso]

There is absolutely no way you can prove that to be true since the only stats available are the attacks that have been reported, there's plenty of victims who haven't come forward for a plethora of reasons.

I would think the biggest reason being, that they started it.:shrug: