If this country is so terrible why do so many risk their lives to get here?

[Swan]

Mass immigration, people 'sailing' the English Channel on Lilos using Spades as Oars in a desperate attempt to get here. Hiding in refrigerated trucks, cramped into small dangerous spaces. Parents giving every last penny so their child can be smuggled in. This is not to mention the mass legal immigration.

Im not patriotic, im an anti-royalist, i do not vote (never have) as i've never felt strongly enough either way. However, a lot of people go around saying how awful Britain is, how poorly run the country is, and of course it's far from perfect, we have many many flaws, but is it really that bad? Something is drawing in millions, from all walks of life.

[Liam-]

Because this country isnt a war zone?

[Smithy]

Because this country isnt a war zone?

/thread

[Crimson Dynamo]

It's mainly kids with no job, no property, no stake in society and still get their main meal made by Thier mum

:joker:

[Swan]

Because this country isnt a war zone?

Neither is France, neither is any European Country.

[Amy Jade]

Neither is France, neither is any European Country.

I'm not sure of this but I heard basically we give them a house, benefits and free health care.

Not sure you get that over in say Poland.

[Samm]

Neither is France, neither is any European Country.

You do realise france, germany and many other european countries have high levels of immigration.

We and most of europe bombed or started conflict in their country in the first place. (The Middle East)

[Swan]

You do realise france, germany and many other european countries have high levels of immigration.

We and most of europe bombed or started conflict in their country in the first place. (The Middle East)

Yes i do realise that, which is why i posed the question, why when already in France do thousands risk life and limb to cross the Channel?

[Crimson Dynamo]

Because this country isnt a war zone?

Iran

Albania

Eritrea

Pakistan

Iraq

Top 5

[arista]

"If this country is so terrible why do so many risk their lives to get here?"

They get cash , a home, so much more than nasty France would give any of them.

We are working to get them sent back to France every day
it just a matter of paying France more Cash

[arista]

Because this country isnt a war zone?


It can all change
Fast.

[arista]

I'm not sure of this but I heard basically we give them a house, benefits and free health care.

Not sure you get that over in say Poland.


Yes we are too loving

[The Slim Reaper]

"If this country is so terrible why do so many risk their lives to get here?"

They get cash , a home, so much more than nasty France would give any of them.

We are working to get them sent back to France every day
it just a matter of paying France more Cash

Yes we are too loving

Indeed.

[Swan]

We're not 'too loving' but that doesn't change the fact we will house single mothers, those unable to work, offer a decent chance at an education and a chance to make a good life for yourself. Hence why i say, this country isn't at all as bad as some people like to make out.

[The Slim Reaper]

Any benefits we pay out to asylum seekers is basically chicken feed, when compared to the like of Rees-Mogg hiding his money from the tax man, taking millions out of the UK, and yet no one says he's a scrounger.

[Nicky91]

Iran

Albania

Eritrea

Pakistan

Iraq

Top 5

no

i can already think of 2 others whom got worse warzones than those

Somalia, Sudan

and not to forget another african country of corruption Chad


Iraq i agree, but then also Afghanistan, Syria



Albania is not a warzone :conf:

[Crimson Dynamo]

Any benefits we pay out to asylum seekers is basically chicken feed, when compared to the like of Rees-Mogg hiding his money from the tax man, taking millions out of the UK, and yet no one says he's a scrounger.

You seem jealous as you always mention his business success?:shrug:

[Captain.Remy]

Neither is France, neither is any European Country.

Because it's Europe/Australia/North America and it's safer than their country.
In their eyes, it's better than where they come from. And really if they had the choice they would rather stay, and not risk their lives. But the economic and political aspects really don't give them a choice.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Because it's Europe/Australia/North America and it's safer than their country.
In their eyes, it's better than where they come from. And really if they had the choice they would rather stay, and not risk their lives. But the economic and political aspects really don't give them a choice.

And you know this because?

[The Slim Reaper]

You seem jealous as you always mention his business success?:shrug:

Yes, it's jealousy rather than fairness that's the issue :facepalm:

[Crimson Dynamo]

Yes, it's jealousy rather than fairness that's the issue :facepalm:

You seem much more abreast of this than our thousands of tax investigation specialists, have you thought about telling them about your research?

[The Slim Reaper]

You seem much more abreast of this than our thousands of tax investigation specialists, have you thought about telling them about your research?

Unfortunately for british tax payers, it's actually one of the many benefits of brexit for the uber wealthy and disaster capitalists, that will allow our citizens to dodge tax, because we purposefully made sure we could duck out before EU tax regulations on hiding money apply to the people of blighty.

We're in this together, though.

[Beso]

Yes i do realise that, which is why i posed the question, why when already in France do thousands risk life and limb to cross the Channel?

They dont risk their lives these days, the French navy give them a nice escort.

[Swan]

Because it's Europe/Australia/North America and it's safer than their country.
In their eyes, it's better than where they come from. And really if they had the choice they would rather stay, and not risk their lives. But the economic and political aspects really don't give them a choice.

Yes and you see this is my point, they can prosper here, whereas they can't in their own countries. Be that because of wars 'we start' or that their countries are so poorly run, that the rich become mega rich whilst they watch their own people die of thirst and build more lavish mansions. Here you have a fighting chance.

[Beso]

Because this country isnt a war zone?

Last time I looked the Vietnam war ended before I was ejaculated.

[James]

People are escaping repressive regimes, war or just looking for a better standard of living. The English language might favour coming here.

I actually think this country is a pretty good place to grow up.

[The Slim Reaper]

If the holocaust was happening today, I'd love to see what our anti-asylum seeker brigade would be saying.

Germany's a modern country, why are they coming here?

People are fleeing genocides, apartheid, war zones (often started by our empire and it's passion for redrawing maps) etc.

[Beso]

If the holocaust was happening today, I'd love to see what our anti-asylum seeker brigade would be saying.

Germany's a modern country, why are they coming here?

People are fleeing genocides, apartheid, war zones (often started by our empire and it's passion for redrawing maps) etc.


Many others are not though.

[Swan]

People are escaping repressive regimes, war or just looking for a better standard of living. If they speak English it might also it might favour coming here.

I actually think this country is a pretty good place to grow up.

Agreed, this country really isn't that bad, it's actually rather good on the whole.

[Crimson Dynamo]

People are escaping repressive regimes, war or just looking for a better standard of living. If they speak English it might also favour coming here.

I actually think this country is a pretty good place to grow up.

Yes and exactly why illegal immigration must be eradicated. The last time the govt did an audit was 2005

:umm2:

[Captain.Remy]

And you know this because?

It really doesn't take a genius to figure it out. You really can't say that regardless of what happens in Europe, North America or AU/NZ, it's less safe than third world countries or countries that are badly struggling.

People know this from talking with the immigrants themselves, personal stories (like my parents who left their respective countries to come to France), History as a whole, geopolitics etc

And let's not forget that most migration movements are mainly within countries of the same region.

[Crimson Dynamo]

If the holocaust was happening today, I'd love to see what our anti-asylum seeker brigade would be saying.

Germany's a modern country, why are they coming here?

People are fleeing genocides, apartheid, war zones (often started by our empire and it's passion for redrawing maps) etc.

If you are resorting to the Holocaust then it suggests you are struggling to justify your pov

[Beso]

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-50194118


It looks like the worlds population sees britain like an
childs aunties bosom , one to sob into as a child when things are **** at home..

[The Slim Reaper]

Many others are not though.

Every social program is a bet on society. Firstly, wanting freedom and a better life is also a valid desire. Pretty sure if Essex (think that's where you live, but apologies if wrong) turned into a war zone, you wold also look to move, so being born where we were born is nothing more than an accident. I'm not really a fan of pulling up the ladder to prevent others from receiving the same opportunities that I had.

[The Slim Reaper]

If you are resorting to the Holocaust then it suggests you are struggling to justify your pov

Please learn to read, LT. It would make life so much easier for those of us who's posts you constantly misrepresent.

[Zizu]

It can all change

Fast.



Oddly enough that’s one of my ( many )concerns ..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Beso]

Every social program is a bet on society. Firstly, wanting freedom and a better life is also a valid desire. Pretty sure if Essex (think that's where you live, but apologies if wrong) turned into a war zone, you wold also look to move, so being born where we were born is nothing more than an accident. I'm not really a fan of pulling up the ladder to prevent others from receiving the same opportunities that I had.

Let's say it's not a warzone!





What do I do then, ask the government for free travel to get to the place I want, or do I use the money I've obviously got already saved up.

Do I then gamble my life on unsafe travel to escape the non warzone of my native country so I can be a greedy bastard and make more money.

[Beso]

What were the 39 dead in essex fleeing from?

[Kazanne]

This is a great country to live in on the whole, we are looked after and helped when needs must, we have the opportunity to make our lives good and good health facilities, we haven't got it all right but we are learning, The UK is the best imo and the only other country i want to live in is America.

[The Slim Reaper]

Let's say it's not a warzone!





What do I do then, ask the government for free travel to get to the place I want, or do I use the money I've obviously got already saved up.

Do I then gamble my life on unsafe travel to escape the non warzone of my native country so I can be a greedy bastard and make more money.

You think these people are over crowding on boats and other risks, causing many of them to die, because they fancy a change of scenery?

[Crimson Dynamo]

Please learn to read, LT. It would make life so much easier for those of us who's posts you constantly misrepresent.

"If the holocaust was happening today, I'd love to see what our anti-asylum seeker brigade would be saying."

i did read and i was dissapointed that you used to holocaust in your extreme left argument

[Beso]

You think these people are over crowding on boats and other risks, causing many of them to die, because they fancy a change of scenery?


Lol...the french navy escort the boats across now.

But let's talk refrigerated lorries and the vietnamese...what are the fleeing?

They obviously have cash.

[Shaun]

People really can't let valid criticisms of this country and its government go without jumping to blind patriotism and "at least we aren't Syria!!!!" rhetoric, and it's quite a childish response lmao

[The Slim Reaper]

Lol...the french navy escort the boats across now.

But let's talk refrigerated lorries and the vietnamese...what are the fleeing?

They obviously have cash.

Is there a point? When you can dismiss others as easily as that, then I can't give you the humanity to empathise.

lol.

[The Slim Reaper]

"If the holocaust was happening today, I'd love to see what our anti-asylum seeker brigade would be saying."

i did read and i was dissapointed that you used to holocaust in your extreme left argument

So what exactly is the main point? The holocaust, or wondering aloud what our insular racists would say about helping others?

[Beso]

"If the holocaust was happening today, I'd love to see what our anti-asylum seeker brigade would be saying."

i did read and i was dissapointed that you used to holocaust in your extreme left argument

The extreme left always do that, they are even using blm as puppets cause they knew they dont have a hope in hell of winning an election..

It's an election year In america and this always happens in election year in america.

But I'm surprised at the labour mps stirring up racial hatred over here solely for the purpose of gaining the UK's bame communities votes..

[Crimson Dynamo]

The extreme left always do that, they are even using blm as puppets cause they knew they dont have a hope in hell of winning an election..

It's an election year In america and this always happens in election year in america.

But I'm surprised at the labour mps stirring up racial hatred over here solely for the purpose of gaining the UK's bame communities votes..

and note slim said "anti-immigration" when we are talking about illegal immigration



just a poor and oft used tactic to besmirch and try and move the goalposts

[Beso]

Is there a point? When you can dismiss others as easily as that, then I can't give you the humanity to empathise.

lol.



We have talked about refugees on here for years and years it's hardly dismissing all the others just because I want to discuss the vietnamese ones.

That's a very weak reply, one that directed my direct question round to me being unable to show empathy..

[Beso]

People really can't let valid criticisms of this country and its government go without jumping to blind patriotism and "at least we aren't Syria!!!!" rhetoric, and it's quite a childish response lmao

Maybe that's because the question in the op is about how nice a place gb is..why not celebrate that :shrug:

[Crimson Dynamo]

You think these people are over crowding on boats and other risks, causing many of them to die, because they fancy a change of scenery?

they are exploited and lied to about the journey that the boat is safe as is the route

the routes are run by criminal gangs

not the Stena line

[The Slim Reaper]

and note slim said "anti-immigration" when we are talking about illegal immigration



just a poor and oft used tactic to besmirch and try and move the goalposts

Can't find where I said "anti-immigration," can you quote the post please, so I can see what I'm saying? Cheers.

Although I don't believe we should label other humans "illegal", because of where they are on the map at a random point in time.

[Crimson Dynamo]

https://pbs.twimg.com/card_img/1273073354149367809/KyiaOSYI?format=jpg&name=small

Home Office has no idea how many illegal immigrants are in the UK, says National Audit Office
The Home Office's last estimate for illegal migrants dates back to 2005 since when there has been no update
telegraph.co.uk

[The Slim Reaper]

they are exploited and lied to about the journey that the boat is safe as is the route

the routes are run by criminal gangs

not the Stena line

I agree they are lied to. They arrive at the sea front, see the massive over crowding and get on anyway because of a careless desire for adventure?

[Nicky91]

they are exploited and lied to about the journey that the boat is safe as is the route

the routes are run by criminal gangs

not the Stena line

yes that was shown on our dutch Crimewatch show some time ago

also some boats depart from here too towards UK, and our border patrols have detected illegal immigrants couple times before departure

[Beso]

https://pbs.twimg.com/card_img/1273073354149367809/KyiaOSYI?format=jpg&name=small

Home Office has no idea how many illegal immigrants are in the UK, says National Audit Office
The Home Office's last estimate for illegal migrants dates back to 2005 since when there has been no update
telegraph.co.uk




Doesn't look like this group were lied to...I've not had that much fun in about 12 weeks now ffs.

[JerseyWins]

Seems like a 3rd world country compared to the US

(I'm just messing :joker:) The UK seems up there as one of the best countries to live in. I can't imagine what people saying it's awful/terrible would do in other areas around the world. I know I couldn't handle it and am really grateful/lucky just to live in the US

[Jigs]

I think this country is brilliant. That's not to say it's perfect, but a damn sight better than a lot of other countries !!!!

[Nicky91]

I think this country is brilliant. That's not to say it's perfect, but a damn sight better than a lot of other countries !!!!

worst country in europe, i'd say Ukraine, i mean now with that still ongoing crimea crisis/conflict also not very comfortable living there i think

few of better european countries probably Poland, Germany, i'd also mention my country Netherlands, i mean despite far right clowns like Wilders and Baudet, everyone else in our parliament isn't against immigrants, or polish who come in here in summers to work

[Jigs]

Every country has bad eggs; I guess it's about having the perspective to weigh everything up and come to a general conclusion about your country when compared to a place like, as you said, Ukraine.

I'm not trying to sound Eurocentric at all but I do believe many European countries are largely peaceful and fair. We should all be doing our bit to accommodate those asylum seekers who are seeking refuge from wartorn countries in the Middle East and Africa.

[Beso]

Every country has bad eggs; I guess it's about having the perspective to weigh everything up and come to a general conclusion about your country when compared to a place like, as you said, Ukraine.

I'm not trying to sound Eurocentric at all but I do believe many European countries are largely peaceful and fair. We should all be doing our bit to accommodate those asylum seekers who are seeking refuge from wartorn countries in the Middle East and Africa.




They would be happily sitting at home if they were on the winning side, and we would just have the other team pouring in.

The rest of the world should be coming together to stop these wars, rather than accepting the causes of these wars so freely.

[Doogle]

What the **** is this

[Liam-]

This country being better than worntorn Middle Eastern countries isn’t as much of a glowing reference as you seem to think it is

[Swan]

This country being better than worntorn Middle Eastern countries isn’t as much of a glowing reference as you seem to think it is

Are you saying this a crap country to live in? Crap to grow up in the UK?

[Crimson Dynamo]

the most tolerant country in the world

best music, tv and scenery

plus the home to the worlds language

:clap1:

[smudgie]

Wouldn’t want to live anywhere else in the world.
I love my part of Britain, with all its ups and downs.

[Swan]

Also the weather, yeah we all moan about it, but i think we have a good balance here.

[Liam-]

Are you saying this a crap country to live in? Crap to grow up in the UK?

Some people would think so yeah, people who have had great upbringings will say so, but others who haven’t and have felt the brunt of societal differences shouldn’t be told they’re wrong

[Crimson Dynamo]

yes we dont have weather that kills or animals/insects that kill

it really is a great place to live

[Swan]

Some people would think so yeah, people who have had great upbringings will say so, but others who haven’t and have felt the brunt of societal differences shouldn’t be told they’re wrong

It's not about telling people they're wrong to feel this country is crap, it's about seeing the good this country brings.

I had a **** upbringing with an alcoholic parent, i had counselling (paid for by the Gov) that helped me through and helped shape my life. Help is always out there for those going throw hardship in the country. They make mistakes, but on the whole the UK looks after it's citizens.

[Liam-]

It's not about telling people they're wrong to feel this country is crap, it's about seeing the good this country brings.

I had a **** upbringing with an alcoholic parent, i had counselling (paid for by the Gov) that helped me through and helped shape my life. Help is always out there for those going throw hardship in the country. They make mistakes, but on the whole the UK looks after it's citizens.

Good for you, but help isn’t always there, mental health waiting lists are growing, social care is being abandoned, over the past 10 years the government has decimated the disability schemes, yes this country does have good points, but not gets to experience them

[Swan]

Good for you, but help isn’t always there, mental health waiting lists are growing, social care is being abandoned, over the past 10 years the government has decimated the disability schemes, yes this country does have good points, but not gets to experience them

Agreed, being massively overcrowded (because of the so many millions wanting to live in this country). And cutting funding. However, for serious cases the mental health team are fantastic.

[Marsh.]

Every country has bad eggs; I guess it's about having the perspective to weigh everything up and come to a general conclusion about your country when compared to a place like, as you said, Ukraine.

I'm not trying to sound Eurocentric at all but I do believe many European countries are largely peaceful and fair. We should all be doing our bit to accommodate those asylum seekers who are seeking refuge from wartorn countries in the Middle East and Africa.

That's the point though, people shouldn't have to "put up and shut up" with certain things just because we're not a war-torn country.

The kind of argument offered by the OP IMO is akin to telling a homeless person to appreciate they're in the UK and are not one of the dying kids in Africa.

[Tom4784]

The UK is a ****house of arrogance and delusion over former glories.

Our country is not great, it has a good support network for vulnerable people but that's under attack and has been for years. The gullible public cheers on the party that's raping the NHS and social support systems while they foolishly look down on those vulnerable people and act like they are better when they're living wage to wage and can easily be crushed by the same government they cheer for when it crushes others.

We're a country that values comfort over hard truths, we like to think we rule the waves when we're basically the racist grandad of the world who's just about to be put into a nursing home.

[Kizzy]

The UK is a ****house of arrogance and delusion over former glories.

Our country is not great, it has a good support network for vulnerable people but that's under attack and has been for years. The gullible public cheers on the party that's raping the NHS and social support systems while they foolishly look down on those vulnerable people and act like they are better when they're living wage to wage and can easily be crushed by the same government they cheer for when it crushes others.

We're a country that values comfort over hard truths, we like to think we rule the waves when we're basically the racist grandad of the world who's just about to be put into a nursing home.

I agree.

We sell our soul everytime ww vote because each perpetuates a myth that we are a democracy that values all equally and everyone has a voice and equal rights...they don't.

People from other countries believe this tale too, however the reality is entirely kafkaesque.

[Swan]

Yeah the UK is rubbish, all walks of life come here for a laugh, we don't offer anything to these people. The UK is scum, people risk their lives to come here because they're thrillseakers. The mass European influx is nothing more than people just moving here because they're romanticised by the royals. The huge Muslim communities are only here for the weather.

Honestly, people need to get a grip. This country offers so much, and those who fight it at every turn should ashamed. WE ARE LUCKY!!!

[Tom4784]

Yeah the UK is rubbish, all walks of life come here for a laugh, we don't offer anything to these people. The UK is scum, people risk their lives to come here because they're thrillseakers. The mass European influx is nothing more than people just moving here because they're romanticised by the royals. The huge Muslim communities are only here for the weather.

Honestly, people need to get a grip. This country offers so much, and those who fight it at every turn should ashamed. WE ARE LUCKY!!!


Honestly, you're a perfect example of what I'm talking about. Who is 'fighting it at every turn?' I'm a ****ing realist, I'm not going to be defensive over the rock formation I happened to be born on, I'm not gonna delude myself into thinking that we're perfect because we're far from it.

The few things we do right in this country are being systematically dissembled by those in power and the public cheer them as they do so. Pretending that's not the case to swing a flag around and go 'Woo! the UK is the best country ever!' is pointless. Patriotism is pointless. Wilful delusions have never fixed anything.

[Kizzy]

I'll expand on that by saying it's only a great place thanks to the great British public and progressive governments historically.

It's fair to say in the last 30yrs there has been a dismantling of support structures and with brexit a retrograde movement in who we consider choice of allies and trading partners.

In essence all that made modern Britain great and a draw for so many no longer exists.
Welfare, housing, health ...basic rights and protections are difficult enough to access for British passport holders, that is not an exaggeration.

England as the land of milk and honey is a myth.

[thesheriff443]

I have no problem with genuine people who are in danger and want to make a better life for themselves by working.

I have a problem with those that abuse the system and that includes home grown scum bags that think the world owes them a favour.

And we should pay for their Ferrell kids that they produce yearly without the means to support them.

[The Slim Reaper]

:smug:

1273583031891177472

[The Slim Reaper]

Well, well, well.

1273593415968661504

[Ammi]

...the country offers so much and yet there are so many who have nothing at all...so what we ‘fight at every turn..’...is inequality, surely...because we should all be so lucky/Kylie...and because we have so much to offer/because we are a great country..?..then giving refuge to those whose birth countries are very conflicted or poverty stricken is something that surely puts the Great in Britain as well...

[arista]

:smug:

1273583031891177472


Yes Valid

[Marsh.]

Yeah the UK is rubbish, all walks of life come here for a laugh, we don't offer anything to these people. The UK is scum, people risk their lives to come here because they're thrillseakers. The mass European influx is nothing more than people just moving here because they're romanticised by the royals. The huge Muslim communities are only here for the weather.

Honestly, people need to get a grip. This country offers so much, and those who fight it at every turn should ashamed. WE ARE LUCKY!!!

That's a nice fairy story.

[Livia]

The only people I ever hear droning on about how awful this country is, are white Lefties.

[The Slim Reaper]

The only people I ever hear droning on about how awful this country is, are white Lefties.

Didn't you say your gran was going to leave the UK if Corbyn had won?

[joeysteele]

...the country offers so much and yet there are so many who have nothing at all...so what we ‘fight at every turn..’...is inequality, surely...because we should all be so lucky/Kylie...and because we have so much to offer/because we are a great country..?..then giving refuge to those whose birth countries are very conflicted or poverty stricken is something that surely puts the Great in Britain as well...

I agree, really thoughtful post.

[Withano]

This country is terrible because of our government
Other countries are even worse because of our government

[Crimson Dynamo]

This country is terrible because of our government
Other countries are even worse because of our government

Lol, I verymuch doubt the "government" make a blind bit odds to your life no matter who was in

[Cherie]

It's been decent for me and my family, can only speak for myself of course.

I will hazard an opinion it is much easier to thrash a country when you have never lived anywhere else and haven't been forced by economics to move from the area/country you were born in :pipe:

[Tom4784]

Or maybe people are just blinded by their own patriotism that they can't bring themselves to acknowledge the serious problems this country faces. I pity such people.

[Swan]

Or maybe people are just blinded by their own patriotism that they can't bring themselves to acknowledge the serious problems this country faces. I pity such people.

As stated in OP im not patriotic. I can however appreciate what this country does, how it helps those in need, offers ample opportunities and so forth.

I would like to hear what these 'serious' problems are though?

[Tom4784]

As stated in OP im not patriotic. I can however appreciate what this country does, how it helps those in need, offers ample opportunities and so forth.

I would like to hear what these 'serious' problems are though?

Okay, let's start with how this country 'helps those in need'. Do you know much about how benefits work these days? Oh how Universal Credit is mostly a predatory system that looks for reasons to withhold benefits from people that need them? People have died of starvation under the current system because of it.

By painting the vulnerable as scroungers and layabouts for decades, the government has managed to turn the benefits system into a vicious cycle in which turns a lot of vulnerable people into victims and drives them into worse positions then they were in before. The current system doesn't 'help' people find work, it heaps pressure and cruelty onto them in an attempt to force work instead of dealing with the underlying problems people face while finding work.

Our benefits system was never perfect but it's never been more cruel than it is now. I'd certainly like to see how people who look down on the unemployed would cope with such a system, I expect they would do poorly.

The NHS is probably the greatest institution in our country, it's definitely my favourite thing about the UK but it's being eroded before our eyes by a callous government and an apathetic public. It's all well and good painting rainbows and clapping on your doorstep but when push comes to shove, people will vote for those that want to destroy the NHS. Public services are being eroded across the board and the public are content with letting it happen because we are a dumb people who are far too easily distracted. Instead of criticising the government and demanding change, we chortle and say 'well, just imagine if Corbyn was in charge?' because fearing an imaginary scenario is better than dealing with reality. Corbyn is not in change, instead we've got a moron that willingly sleptwalk into a crisis and wanted to deal with it by sacrificing the old and infirm and he's slowly been walking us back to that original plan.

The government is deeply incompetent and is protected by a bootlicking public that has long since treated politics like football and will fight for their 'side' regardless of what their party is doing.

The best things about this country are our rights and whether it's a right to benefit, healthcare or employment rights, they're all being undone in equal fashion and we as a nation are cheering it all on.

[Cherie]

Head to Spain, see how much help you get there if you haven't paid in for at least a year ... nada is what you would get ...nada yet it the UK with a SERIOUS problem?

UNEMPLOYMENT BENEFITS To receive the unemployment benefit in Spain, you must have contributed to Social Security for a minimum of one year (360 days). This contributory period gives you the right to receive benefits for 120 days (4 months). You must also prove that you are actively seeking employment

[Smithy]

Didn't you say your gran was going to leave the UK if Corbyn had won?

:joker::joker::joker:

[Cherie]

As stated in OP im not patriotic. I can however appreciate what this country does, how it helps those in need, offers ample opportunities and so forth.

I would like to hear what these 'serious' problems are though?

I'm definitely not an English Patriot, I'm Irish :omgno:


You can be patriotic in Ireland, no one looks down on you for it, in fact it is actively encouraged :hee:

[Tom4784]

Head to Spain, see how much help you get there if you haven't paid in for at least a year ... nada is what you would get ...nada yet it the UK with a SERIOUS problem?

UNEMPLOYMENT BENEFITS To receive the unemployment benefit in Spain, you must have contributed to Social Security for a minimum of one year (360 days). This contributory period gives you the right to receive benefits for 120 days (4 months). You must also prove that you are actively seeking employment

**** argument, just because another country has a worse handling on rights doesn't make ours automatically better. We have people being broken by the system, we've had people starve to death on benefits. They don't automatically not matter just because Spain's benefits systems are different to ours.

[Cherie]

Lol yes let’s not compare EU countries

[Tom4784]

Lol yes let’s not compare EU countries

Yes because it's not going to fix the problems we face as a country, it's just pure whataboutism to avoid facing the truth about our own issues.

Amplifying another countries problems does not magically fix our own.

[Cherie]

I see the goal posts being up rooted as usual...the reasons people do not head over the border from France into Spain and risk their lives instead in inflatables is pretty obvious, the OP didn’t ask how to fix Britain

[Marsh.]

Lol, I verymuch doubt the "government" make a blind bit odds to your life no matter who was in

Probably the difference between you and other people. Some people see the world is not all about them.

Just because something doesn't affect you, doesn't make it ok.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Probably the difference between you and other people. Some people see the world is not all about them.

Just because something doesn't affect you, doesn't make it ok.

Marsh

Voting for others since......



Neva

[Marsh.]

Marsh

Voting for others since......



Neva

Who mentioned voting?

:joker: And what the **** would you know about who I vote for or my reasons?

Try harder.

Principles and morals may be alien concepts to you. Not to others.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Who mentioned voting?

:joker: And what the **** would you know about who I vote for or my reasons?

Try harder.

Principles and morals may be alien concepts to you. Not to others.
Sigh

[Crimson Dynamo]

So many Katie fans.

[Marsh.]

Sigh

Indeed.

[Zizu]

This country is terrible because of our government

Other countries are even worse because of our government



This government are no better or worse than any other government over the last 50 years as far as I’m concerned.


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[Zizu]

Lol, I verymuch doubt the "government" make a blind bit odds to your life no matter who was in



Exactly !!!!


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[The Slim Reaper]

Exactly !!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

What about over 100k people who died from austerity? Experts say locking down 1 week earlier would have halved the covid deaths.

Have they been affected by who's in government?

[Withano]

Lol, I verymuch doubt the "government" make a blind bit odds to your life no matter who was in

Odd thing to say

[Crimson Dynamo]

What about over 100k people who died from austerity? Experts say locking down 1 week earlier would have halved the covid deaths.

Have they been affected by who's in government?

That's amade up stat

Please stop

[Zizu]

What about over 100k people who died from austerity? Experts say locking down 1 week earlier would have halved the covid deaths.



Have they been affected by who's in government?



The ‘man in the street’ has suffered under every single government all through my life ..


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[Zizu]

Experts say locking down 1 week earlier would have halved the covid deaths.







Hindsight is such a wonderful thing ..


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[Crimson Dynamo]

Hindsight is such a wonderful thing ..


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Precisely

[The Slim Reaper]

The ‘man in the street’ has suffered under every single government all through my life ..


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By being killed by government?

[The Slim Reaper]

That's amade up stat

Please stop

Which one or both?

[Marsh.]

"THE GOVERNMENT DON'T AFFECT YOU!!"

:laugh2:

[Marsh.]

Hindsight is such a wonderful thing ..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

They said they were leaving it way too long at the time.

Them being proven right isn't "hindsight".

[Kizzy]

The only people I ever hear droning on about how awful this country is, are white Lefties.

Really? All I hear is right wing gammons ranting about how this country is crap because we spend too much on aid, not enough on bombs while pissing on memorials.

[Tom4784]

I see the goal posts being up rooted as usual...the reasons people do not head over the border from France into Spain and risk their lives instead in inflatables is pretty obvious, the OP didn’t ask how to fix Britain

The only person moving the goalposts are yourself, tbh with all this whataboutism.

He asked me what the problems were and I responded.

I think the reasons are probably obvious, but it's not because of benefits. It's more likely that it's easier to integrate in the UK than most other places and there's things like relatives and connections to consider.

I think most refugees and immigrants will settle in the first safe country they can but I think the idea that they only come here for benefits is a damaging stereotype.

[The Slim Reaper]

Posting this from George square earlier today, so Parmy can come and tell us it's antifa again.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ea8gJ_2XYAAlrLL?format=jpg&name=large

[Swan]

Even our high rate of terror attacks/incidents isn't a deterrent. However for all the praise we give the UK, the way we deal with terrorists and terrorism as a whole is pretty pathetic.

[arista]

Even our high rate of terror attacks/incidents isn't a deterrent. However for all the praise we give the UK, the way we deal with terrorists and terrorism as a whole is pretty pathetic.


Sure but it's changing.

[Swan]

Sure but it's changing.

Not really, three terror attacks already this year, Islam inspired of course because that's norm in this country.

[The Slim Reaper]

Not really, three terror attacks already this year, Islam inspired of course because that's norm in this country.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/sep/19/fastest-growing-uk-terrorist-threat-is-from-far-right-say-police

Fastest-growing UK terrorist threat is from far right, say police

[Swan]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/sep/19/fastest-growing-uk-terrorist-threat-is-from-far-right-say-police

Fastest-growing UK terrorist threat is from far right, say police

Since 2017 39 people killed by Islamic Terrorists in the UK, 1 persons killed by Far Right Terrorist.

It may be the fastest-growing threat, but it certainly isn't the biggest threat we face.

[arista]

Not really, three terror attacks already this year, Islam inspired of course because that's norm in this country.


Yes but the PM
has stated today Laws will change

It is bad news 3 British
stabbed to Death by an Evil Libyan Terrorist
its Gone Worldwide
Even on left wing CNN USA

[arista]

"Fastest-growing UK terrorist threat "

Bloody Slim.
Sure but these Islamic Loner Killers are far worse
as they are More Active in DEATHS

[The Slim Reaper]

"Fastest-growing UK terrorist threat "

Bloody Slim.
Sure but these Islamic Loner Killers are far worse
as they are More Active in DEATHS

Bloody slim?

[arista]

Bloody slim?


Yes as you keep going on about
the New Evil white terrorists.
Yes a threat.
But not active killers


And you ignore
these Evil Asylum Islamic (Libyan, this time)
loner Killers

[Tom4784]

Bloody Slim! Focusing on white terrorists when there's arabic ones about!!

[Swan]

Bloody slim?

Bloody Slim! Focusing on white terrorists when there's arabic ones about!!

Jumping onto a poor choice of words instead of actually addressing the subject.

[arista]

One of the Dead is a Top history Teacher

[Tom4784]

Jumping onto a poor choice of words instead of actually addressing the subject.

What's there to address? You've had a defensive reaction to the term 'right-wing terrorism' because you instinctively need to jump to downplay it because of the 'right-wing' part of it.

What do you suggest needs to be done to combat terrorism? Let me guess, all your suggestions will be focused around islam and will also infringe on basic human rights.

You can't destroy an ideology but you can change the circumstances that allow it to thrive. When it comes to domestic terrorism, it's always particular people that are radicalised, people are are vulnerable to manipulation and are angry enough with their circumstances to be convinced over time to do something unthinkable.

The hard truth is that terrorism will always be a thing, prevention is the key but unless you're willing to surrender your rights, people will slip through the cracks. If you blame a certain race or religion and want to enforce laws that lead to their victimisation or discrimination then you're handing power to these recruiters that will use such measures as ammunition.

[arista]

Bloody Slim! Focusing on white terrorists when there's arabic ones about!!


Yes he does it Every Time.


Evil white terrorists matter, Dezzy
but not on this thread.

[Swan]

What's there to address? You've had a defensive reaction to the term 'right-wing terrorism' because you instinctively need to jump to downplay it because of the 'right-wing' part of it.

What do you suggest needs to be done to combat terrorism? Let me guess, all your suggestions will be focused around islam and will also infringe on basic human rights.

You can't destroy an ideology but you can change the circumstances that allow it to thrive. When it comes to domestic terrorism, it's always particular people that are radicalised, people are are vulnerable to manipulation and are angry enough with their circumstances to be convinced over time to do something unthinkable.

The hard truth is that terrorism will always be a thing, prevention is the key but unless you're willing to surrender your rights, people will slip through the cracks. If you blame a certain race or religion and want to enforce laws that lead to their victimisation or discrimination then you're handing power to these recruiters that will use such measures as ammunition.

Really typical assumption of yours tbh. Im not saying, not defending, and not pretending 'right wing' terrorism exists, it obviously does exist. My reaction was to the Guardian story Slim posted, that ok maybe it's the 'fast-growing' threat, but it certainly isn't the biggest threat, the biggest threat as far as terrorism is concerned is Islamic driven in this country. That isn't my opinion, it's just fact.

What would i do to combat Islamic terrorism in the UK? Good question. Unfortunately, you especially will assume my view would be to 'get rid of all muslims, this is the uk not pakistan mate innit, white power' etc. You realise most people in this country have no problem integrating and getting on with people from all walks of life, right? Me being one. Human rights should apply to all humans. To combat the Islamic terrorism in the UK we need to take a tougher stance imo, especially those who threat terrorism, they shouldn't be homed with like minded people in prision. Education is key. Families need to be held accountable too, you constantly here about how the families knew of their sons/daughters/neice/nephews plans or 'views'.

Also people like you Dezzy need to accept this is a real problem, we need to be united when it comes to terrorism, in all forms. Too many have their own agendas, and as you like to say too many use this 'whataboutism' narrative (which is kinda ironic).

A lot needs to be done, but as you say whataboutism is a waste of time.

[The Slim Reaper]

Yes he does it Every Time.


Evil white terrorists matter, Dezzy
but not on this thread.

Of all the people to accuse others of repetition, I'm not sure you're the best placed.

[Cherie]

Really typical assumption of yours tbh. Im not saying, not defending, and not pretending 'right wing' terrorism exists, it obviously does exist. My reaction was to the Guardian story Slim posted, that ok maybe it's the 'fast-growing' threat, but it certainly isn't the biggest threat, the biggest threat as far as terrorism is concerned is Islamic driven in this country. That isn't my opinion, it's just fact.

What would i do to combat Islamic terrorism in the UK? Good question. Unfortunately, you especially will assume my view would be to 'get rid of all muslims, this is the uk not pakistan mate innit, white power' etc. You realise most people in this country have no problem integrating and getting on with people from all walks of life, right? Me being one. Human rights should apply to all humans. To combat the Islamic terrorism in the UK we need to take a tougher stance imo, especially those who threat terrorism, they shouldn't be homed with like minded people in prision. Education is key. Families need to be held accountable too, you constantly here about how the families knew of their sons/daughters/neice/nephews plans or 'views'.

Also people like you Dezzy need to accept this is a real problem, we need to be united when it comes to terrorism, in all forms. Too many have their own agendas, and as you like to say too many use this 'whataboutism' narrative (which is kinda ironic).

A lot needs to be done, but as you say whataboutism is a waste of time.

Not Dezzy hoisted by his own Petard!

[arista]

Of all the people to accuse others of repetition, I'm not sure you're the best placed.


More Important Data
Reading stabbings: Tributes paid to teacher James Furlong
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53130559

[Tom4784]

Really typical assumption of yours tbh. Im not saying, not defending, and not pretending 'right wing' terrorism exists, it obviously does exist. My reaction was to the Guardian story Slim posted, that ok maybe it's the 'fast-growing' threat, but it certainly isn't the biggest threat, the biggest threat as far as terrorism is concerned is Islamic driven in this country. That isn't my opinion, it's just fact.

What would i do to combat Islamic terrorism in the UK? Good question. Unfortunately, you especially will assume my view would be to 'get rid of all muslims, this is the uk not pakistan mate innit, white power' etc. You realise most people in this country have no problem integrating and getting on with people from all walks of life, right? Me being one. Human rights should apply to all humans. To combat the Islamic terrorism in the UK we need to take a tougher stance imo, especially those who threat terrorism, they shouldn't be homed with like minded people in prision. Education is key. Families need to be held accountable too, you constantly here about how the families knew of their sons/daughters/neice/nephews plans or 'views'.

Also people like you Dezzy need to accept this is a real problem, we need to be united when it comes to terrorism, in all forms. Too many have their own agendas, and as you like to say too many use this 'whataboutism' narrative (which is kinda ironic).

A lot needs to be done, but as you say whataboutism is a waste of time.

You should learn what a constitutes a fact.

Also your suggested methods infringe on human rights and ring dangerously close to North Korea's approach of punishing a whole family for one person's mistake. You can't throw a whole family under the bus for the actions of one person. You're championing Guilt by association. Honestly, I was right, your proposed methods would probably end up increasing the rates of terrorist attacks because, like I said, tactics like targeting families would have terrorist organisations rubbing their hands with glee since you'd be radicalising folks for them.

Also, you made a big song and dance about assumptions yet you make plenty of assumptions about me in your post. If you're gonna try and get on your high horse then don't faceplant into it's **** the second you do so.

While you're grasping the concepts of facts, you should also look up whataboutism and irony. You made out that Islamic terrorism is the norm, Slim proved otherwise by saying that Right-Wing terrorism is the biggest growing threat. That's not whataboutism, that's simply pointing out a fact.

[Tom4784]

[/B]

Not Dezzy hoisted by his own Petard!

Not Cherie backing the losing horse in this race.... again. Then again, why break the habit of a lifetime.

[Swan]

You should learn what a constitutes a fact.

Also your suggested methods infringe on human rights and ring dangerously close to North Korea's approach of punishing a whole family for one person's mistake. You can't throw a whole family under the bus for the actions of one person. You're championing Guilt by association. Honestly, I was right, your proposed methods would probably end up increasing the rates of terrorist attacks because, like I said, tactics like targeting families would have terrorist organisations rubbing their hands with glee since you'd be radicalising folks for them.

Also, you made a big song and dance about assumptions yet you make plenty of assumptions about me in your post. If you're gonna try and get on your high horse then don't faceplant into it's **** the second you do so.

While you're grasping the concepts of facts, you should also look up whataboutism and irony. You made out that Islamic terrorism is the norm, Slim proved otherwise by saying that Right-Wing terrorism is the biggest growing threat. That's not whataboutism, that's simply pointing out a fact.

Not Cherie backing the losing horse in this race.... again. Then again, why break the habit of a lifetime.

I was about to debate your post, respectfully argue points made, then BIB. You've made your agenda quite clear, to you it's about 'winning' an argument. People like you can never be reasoned with. Have a good day.

[Crimson Dynamo]

More dead because of an asylum seeker from lybia

We need to get tough, this happens too much and is our number 1 terror threat to the UK.

Bar none

[Tom4784]

I was about to debate your post, respectfully argue points made, then BIB. You've made your agenda quite clear, to you it's about 'winning' an argument. People like you can never be reasoned with. Have a good day.

Drop the bull****, you didn't have a response and you're looking for an easy way out to save face. You aren't being noble or above it all, you're running away with your little tail between your legs.

[Cherie]

Not Cherie backing the losing horse in this race.... again. Then again, why break the habit of a lifetime.

Your opinion of yourself is amazing..not sure it’s universally shared on TiBB, I’m sure your Discord friends will back your nag though and a great discussion will ensue :fan:

[Swan]

Drop the bull****, you didn't have a response and you're looking for an easy way out to save face. You aren't being noble or above it all, you're running away with your little tail between your legs.

I do not wish to lower myself to your level, however i'll leave you with some stats. 39 people murdered by Islamic terrorists in the UK since 2017. 1 person murdered by Right Wing terrorists in the UK since 2017.

Again, the biggest terrorist threat in the UK is Islamic, not right wing.

Also, pathetic.

[arista]

More dead because of an asylum seeker from lybia

We need to get tough, this happens too much and is our number 1 terror threat to the UK.

Bar none


Yes PM said he may change laws

[Tom4784]

I do not wish to lower myself to your level, however i'll leave you with some stats. 39 people murdered by Islamic terrorists in the UK since 2017. 1 person murdered by Right Wing terrorists in the UK since 2017.

Again, the biggest terrorist threat in the UK is Islamic, not right wing.

Also, pathetic.

'I don't wish to lower myself down to your level' two seconds later 'pathetic'.

You sure love your hypocrisy, huh? That's twice in a few posts now. Perhaps the high horse is simply too high for you.

You also completely ignored the fact that I called out your own proposals as guilt by association, again, you didn't have an answer for that I suppose.

Also you're changing the goalposts, Slim's link, a quote from actual experts said that right wing terrorism is the fastest growing which is what I also pointed out in the response you ignored so you could run away from the discussion. You tried to accuse me of whataboutism but you're pretty much doing it right here.

What was it your cheerleader said? 'Hoisted by your own petard?' Yup, that's certainly true for you.

[Tom4784]

Your opinion of yourself is amazing..not sure it’s universally shared on TiBB, I’m sure your Discord friends will back your nag though and a great discussion will ensue :fan:

Stones and glass houses, Cherie.

[Cherie]

Stones and glass houses, Cherie.

lol

[Cherie]

oh I am Swans cheerleader now :joker: Next thing he will be in my 'group' that is how it works isn't it, but we all know who the 'group' are now :hehe:

[Tom4784]

oh I am Swans cheerleader now :joker: Next thing he will be in my 'group' that is how it works isn't it, but we all know who the 'group' are now :hehe:


By all means, make a fool of yourself but I'm not going to be drawn into it. You obviously only came into this thread to talk about your favourite subject; me and I'm bored of it and you. Grow up, child.