Parents will be Fined, if their kids do not return to School in Sept

[arista]

The Education Secretary
has said today

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-53221741


[Mr Williamson, speaking on LBC,
said penalty fines for non-attendance
would be part of school being compulsory
again next term, unless there
were "good reasons" such as a
local spike in infections.
"We do have to get back into
compulsory education and
obviously fines sit alongside
as part of that," said England's
education secretary.]

[Ammi]

...(..so long as it’s not compulsory because each school is operating differently...)..a curriculum can’t really be taught by any school as that would give advantages of some pupils over others...so yeah, it’s to be expected really ...

[Ammi]

...the fines, though...?...I doubt the courts will give the time to enforce them...and what’s the point or merit in fining when so many will be unemployed and struggling ...the fines are dumb...

[Oliver_W]

tbh I wouldn't be surprised if a number of parents started home schooling full time. FB friends whose kids are a bit of a "handful" have been saying how much better their kids' attitudes are toward learning, how much more they're getting done and seem generally happier.

That said, the ones who've been saying that are the ones making an actual effort, instead of leaving them in front of screens all day and shoving all set work into one evening a week :laugh:

[Ammi]

tbh I wouldn't be surprised if a number of parents started home schooling full time. FB friends whose kids are a bit of a "handful" have been saying how much better their kids' attitudes are toward learning, how much more they're getting done and seem generally happier.

That said, the ones who've been saying that are the ones making an actual effort, instead of leaving them in front of screens all day and shoving all set work into one evening a week :laugh:

...I guess that your experience may be different but I don’t know many who I think would be up for home schooling...when offered places to return, every single parent has been at the school gates, throwing their children over, while still reading the email...:laugh:...

[joeysteele]

I really don't think this rhetoric helps, at a time when there's still uncertainty about this virus.

Is he really telling Parents who have genuine worries about the safety of their children and in fact their own or even their Parents lives.
They should obey him, and disregard the proper welfare of their children.

Not that I'd expect any different rhetoric from Williamson however.

Hasn't taken long to get back to the hard-line attitude.

I equally don't see the point of fining people either.

For what, for saying they are concerned for the health and guaranteed safety of their children.
Any fining should be for the opposite.

[AnnieK]

Its a little early to say that it will be compulsory and fines in effect when we have no idea of the status of the virus....we could be in a state of lockdown again by september or we could be virus free. I would hope it would be more of an individual case basis, if the virus is still active in the community, parents with vulnerable children or other family members will rightly be nervous about sending them in and councils will be mindful of that.

[Ammi]

Its a little early to say that it will be compulsory and fines in effect when we have no idea of the status of the virus....we could be in a state of lockdown again by september or we could be virus free. I would hope it would be more of an individual case basis, if the virus is still active in the community, parents with vulnerable children or other family members will rightly be nervous about sending them in and councils will be mindful of that.

...it’ll be interesting for sure as the pod sizes will resume to full year groups...(...I’ll presume the virus will still be with us...)...so if anyone is ill/..showing any symptoms, the entire class plus staff will have to be sent home...I mean, that’s what happens now but the pods are obviously not full size yet...

[Cherie]

I heard the interview this morning, Gavin Williamson was asked if fines would be back in place as is routine for non attendance and he said yes unless there were exceptional circumstance, so it is just reinstating what was in place before the pandemic, it's no biggie really, if a parent wants to keep their kid at home they can say they are showing symptoms, like everyone else they have to return to some normality at some point

[joeysteele]

I heard the interview this morning, Gavin Williamson was asked if fines would be back in place as is routine for non attendance and he said yes unless there were exceptional circumstance, so it is just reinstating what was in place before the pandemic, it's no biggie really, if a parent wants to keep their kid at home they can say they are showing symptoms, like everyone else they have to return to some normality at some point

The pandemic is going nowhere likely for months at least or even a year or more.
What are his ' exceptional circumstances'.

I can't think of any better or stronger exceptional circumstances, than Parents caring about the guaranteed safety and health of their children.

I doubt Gavin Williamson would just allow the word, with no proof, from Parents,as to saying a child had symptoms either.

[Ammi]

...I’m doubtful the fines will be enforced anyway, they often haven’t tended to be because they’re an ill thought out thing.../...most schools are academy’s and they don’t have a universal policy on fining...our school hasn’t fined for years for example...but another local school in a different academy..?...tries to adhere a fine after just 1 day absence.../..it will be down to the school to decide on fining...

[joeysteele]

...I’m doubtful the fines will be enforced anyway, they often haven’t tended to be because they’re an ill thought out thing.../...most schools are academy’s and they don’t have a universal policy on fining...our school hasn’t fined for years for example...but another local school in a different academy..?...tries to adhere a fine after just 1 day absence.../..it will be down to the school to decide on fining...

Some schools have gone silly on fines.
Then as you say some likely don't want to.

You are right Ammi, the fines are an ill thought out policy anyway.

I consider just about everything however, during the lifetime of this pandemic.
As being of exceptional circumstances.
Really sad and crazy times indeed.

[Ammi]

Some schools have gone silly on fines.
Then as you say some likely don't want to.

You are right Ammi, the fines are an ill thought out policy anyway.

I consider just about everything however, during the lifetime of this pandemic.
As being of exceptional circumstances.
Really sad and crazy times indeed.

...yeah, these are ‘unprecedented times’ as the government themselves have said and from the beginning it’s been changing and adapting...and it changes and adapts for safeguarding/wellbeing reasons because it has to and fines will have to be flexible and reasonable too...I’m sure that everyone wants ‘normality’ at school for their children and their education...but wanting it or willing it won’t necessarily make it happen by September...

[Kazanne]

My children have been going to school for a while now, they are in bubbles and have been managed quite well , there are some children running feral on the streets ,vunerable or on their own etc ,so would be safer in school , I don't really see the panic as many were at the beaches etc ,which was crowded and no face masks or protection ,we cannot hide away forever, so unless a child has an underlying health problem I see no more danger in going to school than there ever was.

[Cherie]

The pandemic is going nowhere likely for months at least or even a year or more.
What are his ' exceptional circumstances'.

I can't think of any better or stronger exceptional circumstances, than Parents caring about the guaranteed safety and health of their children.

I doubt Gavin Williamson would just allow the word, with no proof, from Parents,as to saying a child had symptoms either.

I guess he means if they have symptoms or are ill? l kids are not usually fined for being off school ill so why would they now?

[joeysteele]

I guess he means if they have symptoms or are ill? l kids are not usually fined for being off school ill so why would they now?

You've a lot more faith in the thinking behind these policies than I'll ever have Cherie.

If he's intending to see Parents fined for absence from school.
You said, Parents could say they were ill.

This government doesn't take the word of Doctors on adults anymore.
I can't see where proof the child had symptoms or had it via a test, would not have to be the case to avoid possible fining of Parents..

While it's true some Parents will not be doing always the best for their children.
I'd expect the vast majority of Parents want the best for their children.
That they want them safe, secure and no health risks.

Yes, there'll be Parents who just let their children go back to school believing the government they are safe.
Equally so, there'll be Parents, no less caring who genuinely are concerned for the safety and health of their children.

During this pandemic, for those Parents, in my view, threats of fines are not the nicest rhetoric to use.

I'm sure, or I hope, those Parents happy for their children to return to school, are not hailed above those Parents with genuine concerns who would be nervous wrecks worrying while their child was forced to be in school

During this pandemic,both of those scenarios of Parents, doesn't make either of the sets of Parents better than the other.

Threats of fines, I believe in my view, to be an unnecessary and wrong line to take against Parents.

Just my view.
I obviously haven't any children but I worry for my great Nephews and Nieces.
In this current climate at this moment in time, had I any children of my own.
They would not be going back to school in even September for me.
Unless their full safety, security and health in relation to this virus, was guaranteed.

[AnnieK]

My children have been going to school for a while now, they are in bubbles and have been managed quite well , there are some children running feral on the streets ,vunerable or on their own etc ,so would be safer in school , I don't really see the panic as many were at the beaches etc ,which was crowded and no face masks or protection ,we cannot hide away forever, so unless a child has an underlying health problem I see no more danger in going to school than there ever was.

My son has not been in school, nor has he been near a beach, park or on the streets or with any friends. We have basically shielded the whole lockdown. My worry is, as a single parent who works full time, I rely on my dad to help with pick up / drop off. My dad is over 70 and has been shielding with a shielding letter due to having had a heart problem. That's my worry about sending him back to school....not for his health per se but for what he could inadvertantly pass on

[Toy Soldier]

I don't think physical attendance should be mandatory but I do think "attendance in some form" should be. There's no reason that teachers can't run a hybrid classroom/digital classroom and so long as the work is being done and kids attending remotely are actually online during school hours, there should be no reason to pursue & fine people.

The sad reality though is that lots of parents just haven't been ensuring that their kids do the online learning - about 20% of my daughter's class - and that's a good school in an affluent area. There are two kids who have not been seen/heard from AT ALL by the teacher since March, and they had to ask other kids in the class if they had heard from them to check on their wellbeing. The issue isn't tech availability either, as they're on snapchat/whatsapp/online games etc. so other kids were able to confirm that these kids are fine. Just not doing school. At all.

So, I definitely think there needs to be a mechanism in place to make sure kids are attending in some form.

Assuming nothing dramatically changes here, kids are going back full time in August, which I'm happy enough with given the numbers here. I have to say though, I wouldn't be happy sending them back if we still lived in NW England.

[Kazanne]

My son has not been in school, nor has he been near a beach, park or on the streets or with any friends. We have basically shielded the whole lockdown. My worry is, as a single parent who works full time, I rely on my dad to help with pick up / drop off. My dad is over 70 and has been shielding with a shielding letter due to having had a heart problem. That's my worry about sending him back to school....not for his health per se but for what he could inadvertantly pass on

Yes I get that Annie about your dad,my mom picks mine up when we can't,but as far as I know she has no underlying conditions,the children are not sent out altogether like they used to be they come out at different times,so there are no crowds of parents waiting like usual, so it's worked OK for me, its difficult if your dad has an underlying conditions surely you would be exempt from any fines due to your position, I hope so anyway.:wavey:

[joeysteele]

My son has not been in school, nor has he been near a beach, park or on the streets or with any friends. We have basically shielded the whole lockdown. My worry is, as a single parent who works full time, I rely on my dad to help with pick up / drop off. My dad is over 70 and has been shielding with a shielding letter due to having had a heart problem. That's my worry about sending him back to school....not for his health per se but for what he could inadvertantly pass on



Spot on for me this.

Of course they are stopping the shielding too on 1st August.
For the more vulnerable sick and elderly.

I'm sorry but for me there's at this time far too much uncertainty around this virus.
Even to new flare ups now.

It's no good ' thinking ' it's safe for this, that or the other.
No risks should taken until much more is known.
With everything secure and in place.

'Knowing' over ' thinking ' the better way for me.

Your worries re your Dad are commendable.
I hold the same worries for my own Mum.

I agree with TS too re schooling in some form to be done of course.
Preferably home schooling.
I'm surprised more of that hasn't been put in place anyway all these months really.

[arista]

Williamson is live in Parliament
in a few mins.

[arista]

He is Live now
also, on LBC

[arista]

Labour's Kate Green MP
their New Shadow Education Sec ., is talking



LBC reports Teaching Unions
not happy with his plans.

[Nicky91]

with all honesty parents should not be fined, if they are still too scared of sending their children back to school

quite a few parents here in Netherlands still keep their children at home, because they don't feel comfortable yet sending them to school this soon

[arista]

with all honesty parents should not be fined, if they are still too scared of sending their children back to school

quite a few parents here in Netherlands still keep their children at home, because they don't feel comfortable yet sending them to school this soon


Typical of the Dutch

[Crimson Dynamo]

Good idea,

Many parents will beill informed to make the call. Basing decisions on social media gossip and faux anecdotes

[arista]

Kevin Courtney
National Education Union
is against this.
He wants more Money Invested
to have smaller groups.

He says no PPE
and bad ventilation is not good

Live on ITV1NewsHD

Live on BBCnewsHD

[Zizu]

If every sector has made the appropriate changes schools must also. If parents are being asked to move their desks, not use lifts, wear masks on transport etc they will expect the same for their children. Regardless if children can\might/don’t/won’t spread the virus.

Schools will have to make changes to curriculum, class size, bubbles, staggered starts and breaks and having children working from home online.

Primary schools to have bubbles of 30
Secondly will be ‘whole year group bubbles’ - so bubbles of up to 240 !!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Tom4784]

If you're okay with dragging your kids out on needless shopping trips and other ventures just 'for a day out' then you should be fine with them going to school in a controlled environment in which they'd be safer than they would traipsing around Primark.

Some concerns are valid and some things should be decided on a case by case basis but schools will probably be one of the safest places for kids to be come September.

[Kizzy]

At this point what happens in Sept is all speculation. Covid likes the cold...by Sept we could all be on lockdown again.

[Toy Soldier]

At this point what happens in Sept is all speculation. Covid likes the cold...by Sept we could all be on lockdown again.Boris isn't going to lockdown the whole UK again.

[Kizzy]

Boris isn't going to lockdown the whole UK again.

Maybe not but if the death rate climbs to the level it was during lockdown even he will have trouble finding enough bull**** reasons why we aren't.

[joeysteele]

with all honesty parents should not be fined, if they are still too scared of sending their children back to school

quite a few parents here in Netherlands still keep their children at home, because they don't feel comfortable yet sending them to school this soon


Very sensible too as to your last paragraph.

If I was a Parent.
Not a chance if things are even as they are now come September, would I be permitting my children to go to school.

Not with social distancing now only advised not enforced.
Not a chance, no way.

[Zizu]

Very sensible too as to your last paragraph.

If I was a Parent.
Not a chance if things are even as they are now come September, would I be permitting my children to go to school.

Not with social distancing now only advised not enforced.
Not a chance, no way.



It does seem like it’s all being driven by financial reasons


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Kazanne]

with all honesty parents should not be fined, if they are still too scared of sending their children back to school

quite a few parents here in Netherlands still keep their children at home, because they don't feel comfortable yet sending them to school this soon

So if people are still scared in a years time its ok for kids to still be at home and not at school? Sorry i don't agree with that.

[Cherie]

Kids went to school during the swine flu pandemic and that affected a younger age group, Covid does not affect kids in any meaningful numbers any more than getting meningitis, or tonsilities or sepsis, parents don't keep their kids off because they might risk getting those, the only parents who should have concerns is if they or a child have been shielding

[Ammi]

...I think for many/most schools, who may feel reluctance from parents to send their children back in September...it’ll be about building up the trusts and reassurances and not alienating through fines...fines have always had head teacher discretion and they’ll know what the general mindset of their parents is at the time...

[joeysteele]

So if people are still scared in a years time its ok for kids to still be at home and not at school? Sorry i don't agree with that.

If I was a Parent genuinely scared for my child's welfare in any scenario.
I wouldn't be prepared to put them in any risk whatsoever.

If things are as they are now in a years time, IF and you don't know if they will be or not.
Then if any Parents are scared now, then they will be then.

For me, the removal of social distancing in schools being enforced to now only advised.
Is a dangerous risk and I wouldn't support that.

These children not social distancing will be out in the community after school.
Back to families, older and younger members.
Travelling on school buses or other transport.

If I was a Parent, I'd be really worried indeed.

[joeysteele]

It does seem like it’s all being driven by financial reasons


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Absolutely it is.
Despicable.

[Toy Soldier]

Honestly it's becoming a balancing act for parents... Children's mental health is really suffering at this point. There's no way you could keep kids doing this for a year or more, it would be inhumane.

[Kazanne]

If I was a Parent genuinely scared for my child's welfare in any scenario.
I wouldn't be prepared to put them in any risk whatsoever.

If things are as they are now in a years time, IF and you don't know if they will be or not.
Then if any Parents are scared now, then they will be then.

For me, the removal of social distancing in schools being enforced to now only advised.
Is a dangerous risk and I wouldn't support that.

These children not social distancing will be out in the community after school.
Back to families, older and younger members.
Travelling on school buses or other transport.

If I was a Parent, I'd be really worried indeed.

I am a parent and one of mine has been going to school most of time during all this Joey, IF a child has underlying illnesses I fully understand not sending them ,but I really don't think keeping them off indefinitely is helpful to their wellbeing or education ,some children are vulnerable and are safer at school ,it's a hard one it's up to each individual, but by September I think most of them should be back, that's just my opinion.

[joeysteele]

Honestly it's becoming a balancing act for parents... Children's mental health is really suffering at this point. There's no way you could keep kids doing this for a year or more, it would be inhumane.

None of my great Nephews and Nieces will be going anywhere where no social distancing is applied.

There are loads of buildings not being used which could have been used to help re schooling.
.thereby having social distancing in place and in smaller numbers.

Libraries for instance, most with installed computers all closed.
They could have been used.

The planning has been a shambles and if this is the best they've come up in the last 3 to 4 months should be seen as very worrying as to near incompetence at the very least.

[Ammi]

Honestly it's becoming a balancing act for parents... Children's mental health is really suffering at this point. There's no way you could keep kids doing this for a year or more, it would be inhumane.

...I’ve never known mental health in children to be so poor as I’ve experienced in the last few months, it’s heartbreaking and difficult to know if any far reaching impacts ...and obviously it’s largely caused by parents struggling as well...it’s much easier obviously to be face to face as we are now with some years...than reaching out and communicating electronically...schools need to be back fully so desperately and I hope that happens in September...but only if parents are reassured of safeguarding and procedures, not threatened with dumb fines...life has been and is difficult enough financially for so many, fines achieve nothing...

[bots]

people need time to be re-assured. If everything calms down for a couple of months parents will be much more comfortable about sending their kids back to school. If the infection rate increases dramatically the government can shove it

[joeysteele]

I am a parent and one of mine has been going to school most of time during all this Joey, IF a child has underlying illnesses I fully understand not sending them ,but I really don't think keeping them off indefinitely is helpful to their wellbeing or education ,some children are vulnerable and are safer at school ,it's a hard one it's up to each individual, but by September I think most of them should be back, that's just my opinion.

Has your child been going into classes with NO social.distancing and a full classroom too.

Like they will be come September.

Everybody thinks they should be back.
With the maximum safety however.

They've had them back in Leicester now they've had to close schools again.
You say there's no risk.
I think there's too.much doubt there isn't.

It is up to each individual.
There'll be good Parents who believe there's no risk.
There'll be equally good Parents who are scared and believe there is risks.

Shielding stops in August too.
More vulnerable sick and elderly likely out and about.
Mingling with schoolchildren with no masks and not doing social distancing in schools.
Once out of school.

Doesn't sound promising to me in any shape or form.

[Toy Soldier]

...I’ve never known mental health in children to be so poor as I’ve experienced in the last few months, it’s heartbreaking and difficult to know if any far reaching impacts ...and obviously it’s largely caused by parents struggling as well...

I don't even think it always is that Ammi, I think we've maybe underestimated the importance of kids having face to face interaction with each other / physical play for their mental health. My and my wife are both doing great in lockdown... my mental health is better than it's been in years :joker:. But my eldest, even just in the last month or so, has really started to struggle with being isolated from her friends and general lack of social contact. They have phones etc. obviously but we've actually had to impose a "tech detox" this week as it seemed to actually be making things worse - a lot of the kids getting easily frustrated / nasty in their chat groups. The lack of REAL social contact with peers is causing signs of anxiety and depression in the kids of pretty much every parent I've spoken to. The latest news here is that they're all going back full time in August... it's my eldest's final year at primary school. She'll be absolutely devastated if something changes.

[Ammi]

I don't even think it always is that Ammi, I think we've maybe underestimated the importance of kids having face to face interaction with each other / physical play for their mental health. My and my wife are both doing great in lockdown... my mental health is better than it's been in years :joker:. But my eldest, even just in the last month or so, has really started to struggle with being isolated from her friends and general lack of social contact. They have phones etc. obviously but we've actually had to impose a "tech detox" this week as it seemed to actually be making things worse - a lot of the kids getting easily frustrated / nasty in their chat groups. The lack of REAL social contact with peers is causing signs of anxiety and depression in the kids of pretty much every parent I've spoken to. The latest news here is that they're all going back full time in August... it's my eldest's final year at primary school. She'll be absolutely devastated if something changes.


...absolutely it hasn’t always been a whole family struggling/..parents struggling...but it has had a huge bearing in terms of families who are now under a social worker and they weren’t before lockdown...the general family tension obviously impacts on everyone in the house and with quarantine there has been no escape from the house...we’re also told that there has been a rise in alcohol drinking in homes, which is something that I’ve personally experienced as well...it’s very sad for this year’s Year 6 because they haven’t experienced the end of their Primary School days in the same way as others have in the past, there are so many things that they’ve sadly missed out on which is so helpful to ease their transitions...I’m glad that it wasn’t your daughter's last year this year and hopefully she’ll get to experience everything fully in her final year...

[Zizu]

None of my great Nephews and Nieces will be going anywhere where no social distancing is applied.



There are loads of buildings not being used which could have been used to help re schooling.

.thereby having social distancing in place and in smaller numbers.



Libraries for instance, most with installed computers all closed.

They could have been used.



The planning has been a shambles and if this is the best they've come up in the last 3 to 4 months should be seen as very worrying as to near incompetence at the very least.



Using external buildings just isn’t feasible...plus to have more rooms with teachers means MORE teachers ..

With a school like ours (1,300 pupils ) how can we organise a group of pupils to randomly turn up at say a room in a library at 9 am tomorrow morning ... bring your own food and drink plus sort your own transport ..

That’s before the safeguarding legislation kicks in where every person in the allocated building would need official clearance to be around children.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Toy Soldier]

...absolutely it hasn’t always been a whole family struggling/..parents struggling...but it has had a huge bearing in terms of families who are now under a social worker and they weren’t before lockdown...the general family tension obviously impacts on everyone in the house and with quarantine there has been no escape from the house...we’re also told that there has been a rise in alcohol drinking in homes, which is something that I’ve personally experienced as well...it’s very sad for this year’s Year 6 because they haven’t experienced the end of their Primary School days in the same way as others have in the past, there are so many things that they’ve sadly missed out on which is so helpful to ease their transitions...I’m glad that it wasn’t your daughter's last year this year and hopefully she’ll get to experience everything fully in her final year...Yeah, they do a big class trip towards the end of the year in final year and this year's leavers missed it. Honestly if you asked my daughter, they might as well have been dropped in a vat of acid :joker:. She's constantly worrying about missing out on hers next year.

[Zizu]

An Ofsted official apparently said today on BBC Radio 4 that good teachers will be inventive and work/teach outdoors ...

It seems to rain most days in the NW !!


These people are deluded ..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Ammi]

...for schools with the space, outdoor classrooms are a relatively cheap build so maybe there will be some government investment there, Zizu...we use ours all year round, whatever the weather...

[Crimson Dynamo]

Very sensible too as to your last paragraph.

If I was a Parent.
Not a chance if things are even as they are now come September, would I be permitting my children to go to school.

Not with social distancing now only advised not enforced.
Not a chance, no way.

Based on what science?


And as this is 2 months away can you take that into account with the evidence for stopping your kids education

[joeysteele]

Based on what science?


And as this is 2 months away can you take that into account with the evidence for stopping your kids education

I really don't know why you waste your time asking me anything.
Especially since the answer is there.
It isn't about science for crying out loud.

If you read it properly.

I state very clearly '' IF things are as they are now come September''.

I also clearly state, '' IF I was a parent''.

As I have no children so no need for you to worry on that score.
Thank you.

[joeysteele]

Using external buildings just isn’t feasible...plus to have more rooms with teachers means MORE teachers ..

With a school like ours (1,300 pupils ) how can we organise a group of pupils to randomly turn up at say a room in a library at 9 am tomorrow morning ... bring your own food and drink plus sort your own transport ..

That’s before the safeguarding legislation kicks in where every person in the allocated building would need official clearance to be around children.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

I always take heed of what those in the profession concerning any debate say.
So thank you for your guidance on that Zizu.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I really don't know why you waste your time asking me anything.
Especially since the answer is there.
It isn't about science for crying out loud.

If you read it properly.

I state very clearly '' IF things are as they are now come September''.

I also clearly state, '' IF I was a parent''.

As I have no children so no need for you to worry on that score.
Thank you.
Thank you for answering my question...

[joeysteele]

Thank you for answering my question...

You're welcome LT.