Unsolved Mysteries (Netflix Series - Season 2 Now Streaming)

[Smithy]

Been binge watching this over the last few evenings, has anyone else seen it?

Each episode deals with an unsolved mystery (usually a murder - although one episode is about UFO’s :skull:) and it explains the story etc and yeah it’s good :eyes:

[Rob!]

I know this sounds like a stupid question given the title of the show but is there any semblance of solving of the mystery because it would annoy me too much trying to work out what happened and I'd feel like I didn't get closure to each episode

[Marsh.]

I know this sounds like a stupid question given the title of the show but is there any semblance of solving of the mystery because it would annoy me too much trying to work out what happened and I'd feel like I didn't get closure to each episode

This is what I said. :omgno:

[Smithy]

I know this sounds like a stupid question given the title of the show but is there any semblance of solving of the mystery because it would annoy me too much trying to work out what happened and I'd feel like I didn't get closure to each episode

Yes, in 3 or 4 of the episodes you know who the killer is but they haven’t found the body or they find the body but can’t where killer has gone

[Amy Jade]

theres honestly youtube channels who do these types of thing in half the time and often leave you with links and stuff if you fancy looking into the crime or the criminals.

It's still a pretty nice show though judging from 1 episode

[Samm]

the one about the french guy and his family? OMG :shocked: the way he got away with it and I think he’s probably still alive.

[Smithy]

the one about the french guy and his family? OMG :shocked: the way he got away with it and I think he’s probably still alive.

The final ep is just as bad imo :omgno:

[Marsh.]

the one about the french guy and his family? OMG :shocked: the way he got away with it and I think he’s probably still alive.

Well THANK YOU for the spoiler warning, madam!

[Mokka]

My boyfriend is obsessed with this show... so like it or not I'll be watching it all lol

I do remember watching it in the 80s pre having the internet. I wasn't sure how it would match up but the first episode was pretty good.

[rusticgal]

I just hate watching some of these programmes when we commit to watching only to find they go nowhere.
Recently watched that Outback murder....and nothing was conclusive...it was all just speculation.

[Samm]

Well THANK YOU for the spoiler warning, madam!

If you wanted to watch don’t click on the thread then HUN!

https://i.imgur.com/J55Zixc.gif

[Samm]

The final ep is just as bad imo :omgno:

That’s the only ep I haven’t watched yet, oop perched :eyes:

[Mokka]

I just hate watching some of these programmes when we commit to watching only to find they go nowhere.
Recently watched that Outback murder....and nothing was conclusive...it was all just speculation.

Well "Solved Mysteries" doesn't have the same effect... does it :eyes:

[Ammi]

...oooo, I love this kind of thing, I’ll try to get time to watch it...

[Niamh.]

Watched the first one last night, i used to love that show back in the day

[Cal.]

I prefer them when they’re unsolved!

[Ammi]

...is it a complete mystery covered in each episode..?...

[Niamh.]

...is it a complete mystery covered in each episode..?...Yeah

[Ammi]

...thank you, I might watch the first one later...

[Niamh.]

...thank you, I might watch the first one later...The first one gives a good idea of who could be responsible

[Ammi]

The first one gives a good idea of who could be responsible

...hmmmm, they said that his tibia injuries were inconsistent with the fall, which might suggest he was thrown...if he was thrown then he would have surely fallen straight down but the hole was quite a distance from the building...how could his body have been thrown to land where it did.../..I’m still quite confused...

[Niamh.]

...hmmmm, they said that his tibia injuries were inconsistent with the fall, which might suggest he was thrown...if he was thrown then he would have surely fallen straight down but the hole was quite a distance from the building...how could his body have been thrown to land where it did.../..I’m still quite confused... I was thinking maybe he was killed or atleast seriously injured in the building where he worked, maybe a blow to the head as his skull was fractured? Then his tibia injuries could have been caused by someone dragging him to that roof and throwing his body down through that hole

[Smithy]

What about the note though!!

[Ammi]

I was thinking maybe he was killed or atleast seriously injured in the building where he worked, maybe a blow to the head as his skull was fractured? Then his tibia injuries could have been caused by someone dragging him to that roof and throwing his body down through that hole

What about the note though!!

...Hmmmm, the position of the hole that he went through is still confusing me because the weight of his body would have prevented someone from throwing him at an angle like that..?...and as Smithy said, there was the note referring to the Masons...atm, I’m thinking that he was part of the Masons and that it was suicide and that there were details of his life his life had no idea of...I don’t know why the specific reason for his suicide, but I think the person who knows an awful lot is Porter Stansberyy...(...who may have introduced him to the Masons...)...

[Niamh.]

What about the note though!!The note was nothing, certainly wasn't a suicide note

[Niamh.]

wasn't even a note as such more like a list, like his wife said he was fascinated by that kind of stuff and probably researching for his writing. I don't think it was related. I had up until recently notes in a drawer in my desk at work with scores and questions and things from doing Top Answers on here, if I died in a weird way and someone found those, they'd be thinking "what the **** is all this about, is it connected " [emoji1]


I reckon he knew something dodgy about Porter, maybe dodgy money dealings in the company. Remember he was also being messed with at home with the alarm going off and him seeming very afraid.

Ammi, he could have been pushed through the hole so it looked like he fell or jumped

[Ammi]

wasn't even a note as such more like a list, like his wife said he was fascinated by that kind of stuff and probably researching for his writing. I don't think it was related. I had up until recently notes in a drawer in my desk at work with scores and questions and things from doing Top Answers on here, if I died in a weird way and someone found those, they'd be thinking "what the **** is all this about, is it connected " [emoji1]


I reckon he knew something dodgy about Porter, maybe dodgy money dealings in the company. Remember he was also being messed with at home with the alarm going off and him seeming very afraid.

Ammi, he could have been pushed through the hole so it looked like he fell or jumped

...yeah I did think the alarm starting to go off, when it hadn’t ever before was quite weird and maybe an indication that he was frightened of someone or some kind of repercussions...?...hmmm, I hadn’t thought about that with the hole, was that level able to be accessed, I can’t recall..?...so the hole was cut out to put his body down..?...I wonder why things like his car being removed from the car park weren’t done...

[Samm]

the bit that CREEPED me out was the strange stuff that happened at his house days before. :worry:

also convinced someone framed it and made it look like he jumped. I don’t understand how he has that serious of an impact.

[Niamh.]

i mean its clearly something to do with Porter as well, if he and his business had nothing to hide, why would he get a gagging order on his staff and why on Earth would you refuse to help the Police when your best friend was possibly murdered?

[Niamh.]

Oh and

the phone call he got that made him leave the house, never to be seen alive again was traced back to his works building next door to where his body was found

[Ammi]

...I was just about to say about the phone call...I’d be very surprised if it wasn’t Porter who phoned him... I found myself looking up Stansberry Research online...as if I’m going to get some clues from their website...

[Niamh.]

Detective Ammi on the case [emoji3059]

I've just started episode 2 now, this one looks interesting

[Ammi]

...yeah I was thinking that I probably need to move onto the next one now, I get too engrossed ...but I think this series is going to be a grand distraction...

[Niamh.]

Yeah, its really good, so heartbreaking listening to the ones left behind though

[Smithy]

By bf thinks that the ex husband did It in ep2 but am not convinced myself

[Smithy]

ALSO just back to ep1, apparently if someone jumps from a height and it hits something like that the sound would be really loud and also it lowkey looks like the body has exploded bc of the impact, makes me think the hole was there and he was dumped through it to make it look like a suicide :worry:

[Niamh.]

By bf thinks that the ex husband did It in ep2 but am not convinced myselfI agree with your bf

[Niamh.]

ALSO just back to ep1, apparently if someone jumps from a height and it hits something like that the sound would be really loud and also it lowkey looks like the body has exploded bc of the impact, makes me think the hole was there and he was dumped through it to make it look like a suicide :worry:Yeah that's my thought too, considering he got the call from work and left in a hurry, I reckon he was killed at work and then dumped in hole to make it look like suicide

[Smithy]

I agree with your bf

How though? He had time stamps to prove he couldn’t do it

Also the blue car was there which I’m assuming wasn’t his because otherwise that would have been a big red flag

[Niamh.]

How though? He had time stamps to prove he couldn’t do it



Also the blue car was there which I’m assuming wasn’t his because otherwise that would have been a big red flagHitman

[Niamh.]

Almost finished ep 3 now

[Smithy]

Possibly but then again, why?

I think the editing plays a part in why people think it’s him because it shows son saying what kind of person he was and THEN it goes to him saying what the son was like, but by that time it’s too late because people have formulated their idea of what he’s like and don’t really listen to his side of the story :think.

[Smithy]

Almost finished ep 3 now

That one is awful :worry:

[Niamh.]

Possibly but then again, why?

I think the editing plays a part in why people think it’s him because it shows son saying what kind of person he was and THEN it goes to him saying what the son was like, but by that time it’s too late because people have formulated their idea of what he’s like and don’t really listen to his side of the story :think.Yes but her friend kind of backed up the sons version, also even if the son was a problem kid, what kind of an evil **** changes the locks on the house the day his mother goes missing?

[Smithy]

Yes but her friend kind of backed up the sons version, also even if the son was a problem kid, what kind of an evil **** changes the locks on the house the day his mother goes missing?

https://media.tenor.com/images/7ec23c1c4161b68b4d9f8dce32268861/tenor.gif

Wait till you watch the final ep




But I agree, that was a ***** thing to do

[Niamh.]

That one is awful :worry:Yeah just finished it, this one isn't unsolved imo just un caught. Awful though, unfathomable how a parent could do that

[Niamh.]

https://media.tenor.com/images/7ec23c1c4161b68b4d9f8dce32268861/tenor.gif



Wait till you watch the final ep









But I agree, that was a ***** thing to doOh no [emoji33]

Also, the way he was weirdly possessive with her remains backs up the narrative of jealous partner who may have killed her rather than let her leave him

[Ammi]

...in episode 2, I think the husband was part of her murder as well...but I think that he did it with someone so that he was able to give timelines...him putting fuel in his car at the exact time he needed to ‘be seen elsewhere’ seemed odd to me...

[Ammi]

...the stories are so heartbreaking..:sad:...the 3rd one...


...the person who said that Xavier couldn’t have dug the graves with his back issues as if killing them wasn’t the unusual thing he was baffled about...it’s hard enough to fathom a parent who commits suicide but takes their family’s life as well..but to walk away from it/..to live with it../...to make a life knowing what he’s done....that’s just completely beyond my comprehension...

[Ammi]

...they’re all heartbreaking but the last one because it’s not just that she could kill her daughter as well as killing her husband and making Lena an accomplice, it’s that she’s bringing up her daughters child...

[Ammi]

...oh I meant to say as well...not only that Xavier lives with his heinous murders of his family...but to send that letter to his friends to say they’d all been re-located as witness protection...and to think that he may have another wife and children right now...

[Niamh.]

I got bored half way through the Alien one, I'm not a fan of those type ones

[Smithy]

...they’re all heartbreaking but the last one because it’s not just that she could kill her daughter as well as killing her husband and making Lena an accomplice, it’s that she’s bringing up her daughters child...
She clearly has no remorse :worry:
...oh I meant to say as well...not only that Xavier lives with his heinous murders of his family...but to send that letter to his friends to say they’d all been re-located as witness protection...and to think that he may have another wife and children right now...

Omg, I hadn’t even thought of that :worry:

[Smithy]

I got bored half way through the Alien one, I'm not a fan of those type ones

I thought it was really good :joker:

Did you see the bit where the guy said about him mum and gran swapping seats and nobody knowing how it happened?

[Niamh.]

...oh I meant to say as well...not only that Xavier lives with his heinous murders of his family...but to send that letter to his friends to say they’d all been re-located as witness protection...and to think that he may have another wife and children right now...

That story is really awful, you know you hear stories of a mother or father, killing their kids and partner but they pretty much always commit suicide themselves (or attempt to) afterwards and you think they must have had a mental breakdown and convinced themselves that they all needed to die to be better off but still be together. Clearly this doesn't apply here, why did he not just leave them alone and **** off to live a now life? It's awful, truly barbaric and nonsensical

[Niamh.]

I thought it was really good :joker:

Did you see the bit where the guy said about him mum and gran swapping seats and nobody knowing how it happened?

Yeah but I just don't believe them :laugh:

I will watch it to the end but it's a chore.

[MB.]

Is the third episode done well? I listened to a podcast on the case not too long ago, but if the episode is worth watching I'd be interested in revisiting it

(I've watched eps 1, 2 and 4 so far, and really hope the family in episode 4 get closure one day)

[Ammi]

I got bored half way through the Alien one, I'm not a fan of those type ones

...I actually a little bit fell asleep through that one and didn’t bother to recap...

[Niamh.]

Is the third episode done well? I listened to a podcast on the case not too long ago, but if the episode is worth watching I'd be interested in revisiting it

(I've watched eps 1, 2 and 4 so far, and really hope the family in episode 4 get closure one day)

Well it doesn't really shed any light on what happened, you probably would have gotten more information from your Podcast. That case was maddening more than anything, it seems like that one should have been solved but the Police didn't bother investigating it properly imo

Oh sorry I got the episodes mixed up. Ep 3 is the house of terror one

It is well done yeah, hopefully someone watching recognises that scumbag after watching the show

[Ammi]

That story is really awful, you know you hear stories of a mother or father, killing their kids and partner but they pretty much always commit suicide themselves (or attempt to) afterwards and you think they must have had a mental breakdown and convinced themselves that they all needed to die to be better off but still be together. Clearly this doesn't apply here, why did he not just leave them alone and **** off to live a now life? It's awful, truly barbaric and nonsensical

...I read (..because I always research stories like these as much as I’m able to...)..that he’d bought a silencer, which is why no gun shots were heard...I also wonder how there was no blood with 10 bullet wounds because when the police first went into the apartment, everything was as it should be...we know that they’d all been drugged with sleeping medication...so did he remove his sleeping family from their beds one by one and place them on a plastic sheet or something to fire two bullets through each head...?...and two bullets each to make sure of no survival...(..not that any would survive anyway when he buried ..)...he defines evil and he’s still alive and out there so far as we know and possibly having another family...

[Smithy]

What I found really really odd about the French one was

the son which came home from uni on the second day, under the guise that his mum has been in an accident and was in a coma etc etc, didn’t insist on going to see her at the hospital straight away? And that he sat at home to have a drink with his dad? It just didn’t make sense to me

[Niamh.]

Oh yeah I was thinking that too Smithy, but maybe the dad said that visiting hours was later or something or maybe he said yeah we'll go see her when your brother gets back from school or whatever, the reenactment was just a reenactment and not necessarily accurate to what happened

[Smithy]

I know, but I’d just find it odd, like if I got home and my mum was apparently in hospital and none of my siblings were around I’d want to go there straight away :think:

[Ammi]

...maybe Xavier drugged him with sleeping medication as soon as he came home...?..

[Ammi]

...also there are only specific visiting hours in the hospital and sometimes they’re restricted, depending on how critical the condition..

[Smithy]

...also there are only specific visiting hours in the hospital and sometimes they’re restricted, depending on how critical the condition..

But if it was restricted hours surely he’d have wondered where his brothers and sister were?

[Niamh.]

...maybe Xavier drugged him with sleeping medication as soon as he came home...?..

Yeah that's what meant, he probably said we'll go see her in a few minutes, here have a drink, you must be thirsty after your journey or whatever

[Ammi]

Yeah that what meant, he probably said we'll go see her in a few minutes, here have a drink, you must be thirsty after your journey or whatever

...apparently Thomas and his father ate out when he came home...I think that he gave him the drink with sleeping medication in and then took him out for a meal while the medication kicked in sufficiently..witnesses have said that Thomas looked very ill at the restaurant and they barely spoke...

[Ammi]

...he took his wife and other 3 children for a meal and to a movie just before he killed them as well...so calm and duplicitous and with no emotion at all, a complete psychopath...and maybe that he’d already medicated them and this was the time needed for the medication to kick in to what he needed...

[Ammi]

...I need to work, actually...bloody unsolved mysteries and evil psychopaths....

[Niamh.]

...he took his wife and other 3 children for a meal and to a movie just before he killed them as well...so calm and duplicitous and with no emotion at all, a complete psychopath...and maybe that he’d already medicated them and this was the time needed for the medication to kick in to what he needed...

What a monster, jesus

[Ammi]

...I was thinking...

...what if he killed his father as well and then discovered that there was no inheritance as he’d thought and as he’d needed for his debts...it may have been that he’d medicated him to his death with a sleeping drug...

[Niamh.]

Yeah that thought crossed my mind too Ammi.

It seems like he was hoping that everyone would just believe his story that they were off in America being spies. Like all this was just so he could save face. That he would rather kill his whole family than become "disgraced" that people knew he was broke. Talk about weak and evil

[Ammi]

Yeah that thought crossed my mind too Ammi.

It seems like he was hoping that everyone would just believe his story that they were off in America being spies. Like all this was just so he could save face. That he would rather kill his whole family than become "disgraced" that people knew he was broke. Talk about weak and evil

...also, why kill the two dogs as well...he could have taken them to a homing centre or something ...it’s like the whole plot became some kind of ritual killing that he took great satisfaction out of the planning and executing...

[Niamh.]

...also, why kill the two dogs as well...he could have taken them to a homing centre or something ...it’s like the whole plot became some kind of ritual killing that he took great satisfaction out of the planning and executing...

Well I mean if you're willing to kill your wife and children, i don't think you're going to be too worried about killing your dogs as well tbf

[Smithy]

Oh yeah I didn’t get the need to kill the dogs :bored:

[Smithy]

I know that sounds stupid bc he killed his whole family but he did that because he was ashamed and didn’t want them to live poor, but like, give the dogs away??

[rusticgal]

We started watching last night. I can’t make out how that guy fell through the roof at that point...it was too far from the building unless there was a strong wind..:shrug:

[rusticgal]

...also, why kill the two dogs as well...he could have taken them to a homing centre or something ...it’s like the whole plot became some kind of ritual killing that he took great satisfaction out of the planning and executing...


Lol...if someone’s going to do what he did I don’t suppose he would give to ****s about the dogs.

[Braden]

I watched episode one last night and it bothers me that Ray’s family have no closure over the situation — it’s the stuff of nightmares, really.

I go back and forth as to whether he was murdered or if it was suicide. It could’ve been an accidental death but the injuries don’t make sense if it were. I’ve read that he could’ve gone through a psychotic episode and he ended up killing himself, but like others have said — his friend not co-operating is suspicious.

[Niamh.]

Braden and Rusticgal, my theory on it is :

he was murdered, firstly the call he got that made him leave his house (never to be seen alive again) came from inside his work office which was next door to the building where he was found dead. If he got a call from work that made him leave then logically he was rushing to work because someone asked him to meet them there. I think he must have had some information of maybe dodgy dealings going on there and someone (maybe his friend Porter) wasn't happy and wanted to shut him up (odd that Porter got lawyers involved, refused to help the Police involving his bloody best friend's possible murder and got a gagging order on his employees) I think maybe he was killed (or seriously injured and incapacitated) by a blow to the head (he had skull fractures in the autopsy) and maybe whoever did it dragged him to that roof (which might have caused those unusual injuries to his tibia) and pushed him threw that hole in the roof hoping that it would look like he committed suicide

PS. Braden he had absolutely no history of mental health issues though so a psychotic episode would be a reach I think

[Ammi]

...yeah, all of that, Niamh....plus the alarm going off in his house for two nights and him appearing very frightened...I definitely think Porter was involved in his murder...

[Braden]

Braden and Rusticgal, my theory on it is :

he was murdered, firstly the call he got that made him leave his house (never to be seen alive again) came from inside his work office which was next door to the building where he was found dead. If he got a call from work that made him leave then logically he was rushing to work because someone asked him to meet them there. I think he must have had some information of maybe dodgy dealings going on there and someone (maybe his friend Porter) wasn't happy and wanted to shut him up (odd that Porter got lawyers involved, refused to help the Police involving his bloody best friend's possible murder and got a gagging order on his employees) I think maybe he was killed (or seriously injured and incapacitated) by a blow to the head (he had skull fractures in the autopsy) and maybe whoever did it dragged him to that roof (which might have caused those unusual injuries to his tibia) and pushed him threw that hole in the roof hoping that it would look like he committed suicide

PS. Braden he had absolutely no history of mental health issues though so a psychotic episode would be a reach I think

Your theory definitely makes sense. Though, I will say that having no history of mental health issues doesn't necessarily mean that an individual still can't go through a psychotic break. We're still living in times where mental health is a taboo topic, and back in 2006 it was probably worse for a grown man to be open about something like that, so could be possible for him to go through it without a history of mental health issues. I do think it's a bit of reach, however.

I also read a theory online about Ray and Porter having a relationship. The thought crossed my mind but I disregarded it quickly — no concrete evidence to suggest it. However, it is weird that Ray moved to Baltimore to be with Porter, even if it was for work. I think it's viable he would rush to see him after a phone call, especially when his wife wasn't in Baltimore. Also, he could've gagged his employees because they knew more about their relationship. Not sure why he'd want to kill him, though?

[Niamh.]

Your theory definitely makes sense. Though, I will say that having no history of mental health issues doesn't necessarily mean that an individual still can't go through a psychotic break. We're still living in times where mental health is a taboo topic, and back in 2006 it was probably worse for a grown man to be open about something like that, so could be possible for him to go through it without a history of mental health issues. I do think it's a bit of reach, however.

I also read a theory online about Ray and Porter having a relationship. The thought crossed my mind but I disregarded it quickly — no concrete evidence to suggest it. However, it is weird that Ray moved to Baltimore to be with Porter, even if it was for work. I think it's viable he would rush to see him after a phone call, especially when his wife wasn't in Baltimore. Also, he could've gagged his employees because they knew more about their relationship. Not sure why he'd want to kill him, though?

Yeah I mean obviously it's not impossible that he could have had a breakdown or episode but because of the other factors in the lead up coupled with his wife or anyone else in his life not noticing anything to suggest it, it just seems unlikely to me

That's an interesting theory about him and Porter but why kill him or be trying to scare him with the alarm etc. Surely if he was being blackmailed it wouldn't involve scare tactics like that hhhmmmm, interesting one though

[Braden]

I've just watched episode two.

I'm not sure if Pistol's former stepfather did it, but holy **** the guy is a piece of work. I knew there was something dodgy about him the minute he came on screen. The bit with Patrice's ashes at the end was eerie, and I can't believe he locked Pistol out of his own home the day after his Mum died.

[Smithy]

Can’t believe someone called their child Pistol either tbqh

[Braden]

Can’t believe someone called their child Pistol either tbqh

I kept noticing the hole in his t-shirt throughout his interview.

Bless him, he seemed like a nice guy.

[Niamh.]

I've just watched episode two.

I'm not sure if Pistol's former stepfather did it, but holy **** the guy is a piece of work. I knew there was something dodgy about him the minute he came on screen. The bit with Patrice's ashes at the end was eerie, and I can't believe he locked Pistol out of his own home the day after his Mum died.

Not even the day after, that very same day...which actually is quite odd if he didn't know what happened to her. Your first thought if she was missing a few hours surely wouldn't be that she's never coming back so I'll kick her son out of our home?

[Braden]

Not even the day after, that very same day...which actually is quite odd if he didn't know what happened to her. Your first thought if she was missing a few hours surely wouldn't be that she's never coming back so I'll kick her son out of our home?

Oh my god, that's so bizarre.

I'm leaning towards that one being a hitjob...I'm scared to move onto episode three after reading a few of the comments in here, lmao.

[Niamh.]

Oh my god, that's so bizarre.

I'm leaning towards that one being a hitjob...I'm scared to move onto episode three after reading a few of the comments in here, lmao.

Yeah I think so too, I reckon she told him she was leaving him and he had her killed, he was very careful to have time stamped alibis for himself. The possessiveness over her ashes was creepy as **** and also a bit sinister that no one else could "have her" only him

[Braden]

Yeah I think so too, I reckon she told him she was leaving him and he had her killed, he was very careful to have time stamped alibis for himself. The possessiveness over her ashes was creepy as **** and also a bit sinister that no one else could "have her" only him

I feel sorry for Pistol and his family. Sometimes it's easy, especially for families, to conclude that it was the husband - especially if they don't like them, but that guy is a wrong-un.

[Niamh.]

I feel sorry for Pistol and his family. Sometimes it's easy, especially for families, to conclude that it was the husband - especially if they don't like them, but that guy is a wrong-un.

Yeah I felt bad for him too, it seemed like himself and his mom were so close, he still seemed a bit lost without her. At least his dad was around though, god knows what would have happened to him if he wasn't

[Ammi]

...that he had the undertakers lay out her bones to create her skeleton so that he could ‘spend time with her’ was so creepy...and the way he talked about her ashes, it felt as though he sat them at the dinner table each night or something to be with...

[Niamh.]

...that he had the undertakers lay out her bones to create her skeleton so that he could ‘spend time with her’ was so creepy...and the way he talked about her ashes, it felt as though he sat them at the dinner table each night or something to be with...

Oh I know, and he walked around with her skull...creepy as ****. And never allowing her son see the ashes or atleast sharing them, complete **** of a man even if he didn't kill her

[Ammi]

...it feels as though he might have a shrine to her and ‘talk to her each day’...and as well as her ashes being there, there would be her wedding ring...which would be the proof surely that he killed her../...he must have kept that, the way he was about her, he would have never disposed of it..?... a ‘stranger’, one of those other people that were suspects...?...they wouldn’t take a wedding ring, why would they...only a husband would, surely...a possessive husband that we know he was...

[Niamh.]

And also when he was talking about the Police wanting to question him, his reaction to that was also a bit off I thought, talking about having read a lot of crime stuff and that he knows the husband is always a suspect. He seemed almost cocky about it, like he knew he had that covered with his alibis

[Ammi]

...having that alibi for him buying fuel and having the receipt for it was just too convenient, that’s all he needed...but it wasn’t something like CCTV evidence of him buying the fuel so do we even know that was him or whether he had someone else help create his alibi and he actually killed her himself...

[Niamh.]

I reckon a hitman because of the two witnesses seeing Patrice outside the shop with the person in the blue car and the weird angle her car was parked, like maybe the y lured out by asking her to get give the car a jump

[Amy Jade]

Guys check out criminally listed on youtube, he covers basically the same subject matter.

[Niamh.]

The same crime or just a similar type show Amy?

[Amy Jade]

The same crime or just a similar type show Amy?

Literally tons of other crimes but iirc he talks about the french family because I remember the dogs being killed

[Amy Jade]

Oh and the weird step dad definitely had his wife killed, Patrice.

He hired a hitman because she told him she was leaving him. I can't remember where, but I read about it ages ago and the reason Patrice wasn't herself that day was because she had told a friend a few days earlier she was leaving him.

Also I noticed that he claimed to sleep with her ashes because he was grieving yet you literally see him open the ashes for the very first time on screen, did he as bollocks sleep with a box out of sentiment and then open it up to show it off on tv.

[Ammi]

...I completely forgot about the story of Alonzo Brooks as well...and the apparent ‘racist town’....not one person coming forward...

[UserSince2005]

I'm gonna solve all these "mysteries" for yall now.

Guy fallen from roof top - the company gone done it to get rid of him as he knew to much. they set it up to make it look like he jumped.
Salon owner dead in the woods - She got killed by some random and dumped, poor woman.
Frenchie done bad - He ran off and is living somewhere nice now. Bastard.
Black man killed at party - Hate crime, body dumped in the river, not really sure what the mystery was here. Corupt police who dont take a black mans death seriously, yes.
UFOs - Happened so long ago their memories have run away with themselves, probably some military activity at the time that that explains the lights, the rest is their imagination.
Nasty Mum - No mystery here other than why the **** they didnt lock the bitch up.

[Ammi]

I'm gonna solve all these "mysteries" for yall now.

Guy fallen from roof top - the company gone done it to get rid of him as he knew to much. they set it up to make it look like he jumped.
Salon owner dead in the woods - She got killed by some random and dumped, poor woman.
Frenchie done bad - He ran off and is living somewhere nice now. Bastard.
Black man killed at party - Hate crime, body dumped in the river, not really sure what the mystery was here. Corupt police who dont take a black mans death seriously, yes.
UFOs - Happened so long ago their memories have run away with themselves, probably some military activity at the time that that explains the lights, the rest is their imagination.
Nasty Mum - No mystery here other than why the **** they didnt lock the bitch up.

...JessicaFletcherSince2005...:flutter:..

[Niamh.]

I could only get through half the alien one [emoji23]

Just watched the last one now, how is that woman still free and raising Lenas son ugh

[Ammi]

...I know, Lena’s story is particularly heart wrenching...I can’t imagine what it’s like for her sisters to feel certain that their mother killed her and is also raising her son...I read ..(..because you know me, I like to read more about stuff..)...that even when Lena was alive, her mother used to often pretend that Colter was hers...which is a really odd thing to do...if people do evil things, we like to believe in a karma, don’t we...but this must feel to her sisters, like she’s been rewarded for killing Lena...I also read that Sandy Home schooled Colter, so he was fairly much isolated from other influences in his life...if she made her daughter help her cover up her killing and then killed her, she’s capable of anything...really disturbing. ..

[Ninastar]

I just caught up. That last ep is crazy. Poor Lena

[LukeB]

The note was nothing, certainly wasn't a suicide note

I saw this on twitter, not sure if it means anything but the note hidden behind a computer is very odd
1284560020630310912

[UserSince2005]

I saw this on twitter, not sure if it means anything but the note hidden behind a computer is very odd
1284560020630310912

Thats a real stretch.

[LukeB]

I just watched the second episode and omg the husband is so awful,creepy and quite disturbing. I do think he did it or had something to do with it. Him carrying her skull and sleeping with her ashes like a teddy bear :skull:

I feel for the son and i find it so sad he was kicked out the house on the same day his mum went missing and he doesn’t have her ashes or family photos.

[Ammi]

I just watched the second episode and omg the husband is so awful,creepy and quite disturbing. I do think he did it or had something to do with it. Him carrying her skull and sleeping with her ashes like a teddy bear :skull:

I feel for the son and i find it so sad he was kicked out the house on the same day his mum went missing and he doesn’t have her ashes or family photos.

...having the undertakers lay out her bones as accurately as possible to ‘resemble’ her...and yeah, it really was heartbreaking for her son and he showed a real coldness toward him...

[LukeB]

...having the undertakers lay out her bones as accurately as possible to ‘resemble’ her...and yeah, it really was heartbreaking for her son and he showed a real coldness toward him...

yeah that also made me feel creeped out by him

I think him letting no one see the ashes and him sleeping with them is him saying Patrice is all mine now since some of her family said he was jealous of others getting her attention. I also find it fishy he made out the marriage was great but Patrice's family said she was unhappy and mentioned a divorce.

[Ammi]

yeah that also made me feel creeped out by him

I think him letting no one see the ashes and him sleeping with them is him saying Patrice is all mine now since some of her family said he was jealous of others getting her attention. I also find it fishy he made out the marriage was great but Patrice's family said she was unhappy and mentioned a divorce.

...yeah it feels as though he was a complete obsessive and killed her so that he could ‘keep her forever’...if he couldn’t have her, no one could, type thing...the type of thing from a movie...(...and obviously some real lives as well...I loved the whole series but they are very upsetting as well, that no one was ever brought to justice for these awful crimes...:sad:..I can’t imagine as a family, how you live with something like that...

[LukeB]

Alonzo's death was definitely a hate crime but i feel there's more to it to be honest! i'm confused why his friends left him there knowing the town is known for it's racism, him being the only black person at the party and hearing the racist slurs...maybe it could have been a set up :shrug: Also the police didn't take the case that seriously but i just heard the case has been re-opened which is good to hear since it shouldn't have been closed in the first place.

I do think the body was moved because it's strange the police couldn't find a body but it took the family 30 minutes after finally being allowed to search.

[Niamh.]

Alonzo's death was definitely a hate crime but i feel there's more to it to be honest! i'm confused why his friends left him there knowing the town is known for it's racism, him being the only black person at the party and hearing the racist slurs...maybe it could have been a set up :shrug: Also the police didn't take the case that seriously but i just heard the case has been re-opened which is good to hear since it shouldn't have been closed in the first place.

I do think the body was moved because it's strange the police couldn't find a body but it took the family 30 minutes after finally being allowed to search.

Yeah that one to me didn't even seem like a big mystery, just really really shoddy and disinterested Police work. Really glad to hear the case is being reopened though, i really hope his family get some kind of justice

[Shaun]

Seen the first three episodes now and whilst they're all sad, there's something about the Nantes story that just left me chilled and a bit broken tbh... the idea of so meticulously and carefully planning your wife & kids' murders but unable to get a damn normal job to pay the bills... not just in a fit of rage, either, over two separate nights... inviting the "heir" home whilst his brothers and sister and mother lay beneath him... ugh it just completely grossed me out.

Personally I think he did commit suicide but I wouldn't know the ins and outs of hiding your own corpse without it being able to be found. I know he has an "unremarkable appearance" but it's a crime as recent as 2011, someone is bound to have recognised him by now.

In June 2013, a body was found 20 kilometres (12 miles) from where Xavier Dupont de Ligonnès was last seen. An autopsy was carried out and did not completely exclude the possibility of the body being that of Xavier.[73] The prosecutor in Draguignan, Danielle Drouy-Ayral, stated "at this moment in time, it is not the body of Xavier Dupont de Ligonnès", without providing any more details to explain this declaration

(I know this quote basically means "it could be anyone's body" but still...)

I'm also slightly sad because the oldest son was a dreamboat but shut up

[Ammi]

...yeah, there felt as though there was no emotion at all attached to the killings...that it was all totally cold and devoid of anything...he shot each one twice, so he left no doubt that none would survive and he laid them in a ritual, type way...these were the people that he’d shared himself with completely...personally, I don’t think he did commit suicide...I think that’s something he would have done at the time so that the family were still together of because of guilt weight or whatever...I think he lives out there somewhere..(..or did, he may have died now, but not took his own life..)...and possibly ‘replaced’ them with another family to enable him to erase them from his head...I also do wonder...did he kill his father to inherit to clear debts etc...and then found out there was no inheritance...

[Ammi]

...I guess why I really, really don’t think he would have taken his own life...his friends talked of pride of French families , such as his...but his actions weren’t the actions of someone whose pride would have found it difficult to look into the faces of his wife and children and feel as though in some way he had failed them/...couldn’t provide financially etc...his actions to me were extreme ego, extreme self above all else, of extreme self preservation...he would kill them/dispose of them and he would have a life, he was that cold, is what I think...I just can’t imagine for one moment he would have felt that he ever deserved death after ‘killing so that he could live’.../...so that he could invent himself somewhere else...

[Shaun]

I just don't see it as anything other than killing them (and then later himself) out of shame, to be honest... the attention to detail, concocting a story that they've all gone into hiding, never want to be communicated by their friends again, it all snowballs into this sense of wanting to close the family name up for good and I don't really how you go about that with a frame of mind that has an open light at the end of the tunnel for Xavier to start anew as someone else. I think the shame and the guilt of how his nobility has fallen means an exceptional end.

Watched the next two episodes and both were frustrating. I agree with whoever said the UFO one shouldn't have been included... partially because it's so far from thematic semblance to the other five episodes, partially because it was 50 years ago with no footage and is thus the recollections of some children and one adult at the time. Nobody else saw it? No other town folklore? Just these 5 interviewees? Okay then.

And the Alonzo case is just saddening and sickening in equal measure. I couldn't feel any sense of empathy for his friends just sitting there and lazily lamenting "I wish I hadn't left him there..." because... it's so ****ing obvious to me that you would never do that. I get that teens and adolescents are irresponsible and make dumb decisions, whatever, but if I took a black friend to a house where people were freely calling him the N word and antagonising him, I would get him the **** out of there. It was 2004, not 1954. I don't necessarily think any of them were in on it, but I can understand why some would interpret their nonchalance and paper-thin "regret" as such.

But then a strong doubt lingers in my mind over whether he was attacked at all... maybe it was just an accidental drowning, maybe he hit his head and fell, maybe he had alcohol poisoning... and that's the most frustrating thing about the episode; the medical examiner is so ****ing clueless I don't understand how he can have the nerve to charge people for that sort of insight.

[Ammi]

....I think there are more theories DuPont killings than any of the other unsolved’s but that’s understandable because of his disappearance...there are some sightings and tbh I don’t understand those...(...as any possibility of being him...)...because they were here in the U.K. or in the USA...(..Chicago, I believe..)...but outside of France, how many people actually would have been aware of this....I mean, obviously it was a huge story of something particularly gruesome and would have been very well known with world policing organisations...?..but he wasn’t really a known person, in the way that Lord Lucan was...so I personally doubt that any of those sightings were actual...

...one of the theories, Shaun..?..is that he didn’t kill them...but that he had been caught up with people that he perhaps owed money to or whatever...some ‘ruthless people’...and that it was a ‘hit’ on him and his family...but that his body was elsewhere so to look like exactly how it has....anyways, maybe you are right, maybe he did take his life...it’s very, very sad...an entire family with so much life to live and life to love and each other to share it all with...:sad:../..heartbreaking, I found that one quite difficult to let go of...(...and probably still do..)....


...Alfonzo’s case was re-opened this year and his body was exhumed...it’s funny how his body wasn’t there and then it was...one of the theories with that is that it had been kept in a freezer....?...it’s like a whole collective of people all agreed to silence...I doubt there will be closure, even with the new investigations...but I hope there is, for his mom, a life sentence for her..:sad:..

[LukeB]

Volume 2 is out 19th October

[Niamh.]

Volume 2 is out 19th October

Oh great, thanks Luke

[LukeB]

uaBJc1XZ8nU

[Babayaro.]

This is on my list!

[Ammi]

uaBJc1XZ8nU

...:love:...that’s a date on the 19th, Luke...

[Cherie]

watched ep 2 last night

Pistol :sad:

the stepdad controlling her ashes :skull: I feel he was involved somehow?

[Ammi]

uaBJc1XZ8nU

...just watched the first episode of this and it really is quite riveting...I won’t do spoilers even until some are watching also...but it really is a thought provoking first episode...

[Niamh.]

Oh excellent, I'll start watching tonight Ammi

[Ammi]

...the first one is riveting...I might have watched the whole series by tonight, I’m itching to watch the second one atm but just having a five minute break...is it 5 minutes yet...?...

[Ammi]

...and the second one also is so fascinating...

[UserSince2005]

eeeek i was going to save this for a flight, but i think i'll have to watch it now haha.

[Ammi]

...yeah watch it, User....we need to chat...:laugh:...(...so far it is a good watch I promise you...)...

[Cherie]

watched ep 2 last night

Pistol :sad:

the stepdad controlling her ashes :skull: I feel he was involved somehow?

Anyone?

[Niamh.]

Anyone?

Absolutely think he was involved. She was clearly going to leave him and he made sure she never could. The way he reacted to her remains being laid out and the possessiveness over her ashes was creepy as ****. I felt so bad for her poor son

[Cherie]

Absolutely think he was involved. She was clearly going to leave him and he made sure she never could. The way he reacted to her remains being laid out and the possessiveness over her ashes was creepy as ****. I felt so bad for her poor son

My thoughts exactly

[Cherie]

My thoughts exactly

Also it was convenient he happened to be in a petrol station more or less at the exact time she went missing

[Niamh.]

Also it was convenient he happened to be in a petrol station more or less at the exact time she went missing

Yeah, I reckon her paid someone to do it for him

[Smithy]

Watched the first ep of S2

Doesn’t really give any idea what happened, a proper unsolved one

[Niamh.]

Gavin reckoned he solved what happened to Jacks briefcase though, it was in Jennifer's hotel room all along

[Ammi]

...it’s strange because his body was never meant to be found as was said...and yet his ring that was so identifiable was left on when removing it would have been nothing...

[Ammi]

Gavin reckoned he solved what happened to Jacks briefcase though, it was in Jennifer's hotel room all along

...I’ve just googled Jennifer/thinking I’d missed something/someone and who is Jennifer...:laugh:..Gav’s too quick for us all...

[UserSince2005]

I didnt like the first one, there wasnt enough information about potential suspects or even motive to really get into it and speculate about what really could have happened.

[Cherie]

I didnt like the first one, there wasnt enough information about potential suspects or even motive to really get into it and speculate about what really could have happened.

I agree, it didn't grab me like some of the others

[Cherie]

The 'break in' looked more like a fit of rage, the neighbour was really bigging it up, like a scene of carnage, it was basically a few spice jars chucked around and plates in the sink :laugh:, I wonder if he had some kind of mental breakdown with the stress of the house build opposite, the smoke bombs were quiet odd, what was that meant to achieve? I think he was killed by the rubbish truck, you would get some knocking around inside one of those surely, or he was unlucky enough to come across someone who killed for fun

[Ammi]

...some of the theories in the spoiler...


...obviously that he was assassinated for something he knew.../...that he was going to expose something of the dumping of chemicals etc...and the attempted disposal of his body would fit with an assassination...but it still doesn’t make sense to have left his ring on, which would have made him easily identifiable as he indeed was immediately...so for people who ‘knew assassinations and disposal of bodies’ etc ...in the way that is led...then this would surely be the worst/most blundering of all time...in terms of just making him ‘disappear’ anyway...there aren’t the clues as to lead to those responsible...

...that it was a random attack of some kind...?...but he still had his ring of value and he was wearing a Rolex, which was still there and had quite a bit of cash on him...so that wasn’t making sense either...

...that the injuries of ‘blunt trauma’ happened in the waste lorry...which was discounted as being unlikely from medical sources...so not so likely either...


...what I don’t understand is even before any of this ‘mystery’ of the incidents and behaviour etc...why he made that decision to go to work ...which his wife said was unusual around Christmas time...the one time they had always had a ‘routine’ of enjoying family/movie time etc together...but he deviated from that and felt work was more important to be at, at that time...is surely a potential key...and why did he go anywhere knowing he didn’t have a phone which was was his lifeline as he had no sense of direction whatsoever and knew that...As soon as his phone was lost at the construction site, he would have known...but said nothing...

[Niamh.]

The 'break in' looked more like a fit of rage, the neighbour was really bigging it up, like a scene of carnage, it was basically a few spice jars chucked around and plates in the sink :laugh:, I wonder if he had some kind of mental breakdown with the stress of the house build opposite, the smoke bombs were quiet odd, what was that meant to achieve? I think he was killed by the rubbish truck, you would get some knocking around inside one of those surely, or he was unlucky enough to come across someone who killed for fun

I agree. The video footage of him in the car park especially looked like he was having some sort of episode. It reminded me of that case about Elisa lamb, there's footage of her in a lift in a hotel acting really strange like she's scared and is looking round corners and going in and out of the lift and she ends up dead in the water tank in the roof of the hotel. The most common theory with her death also is that she had some sort f a break down, she had Bipolar as well iirc) here's the video (it's kind of creepy)

_rfLSVIA0L0

I also think that the truck could have caused alot of damage to him

[Niamh.]

For episode 2 :

It had to be that she was some sort of undercover agent, I don't think anyone could be that untraceable otherwise. I kind of felt by the end maybe that one shouldn't be solved? I don't why, maybe the truth could be harmful or something to whatever she was working on


Also
But also agree with UserSince2005 in that neither of these two really grabbed me as much as the first season. Hopefully the others will. I think I just found episode 2 too impersonal and un-relatable and the first to me just seemed like a tragic accident with a guy who was having some sort of mental breakdown

[Ammi]

..episode 2...

...I swayed back and forward with this...suicide or murder and I came to a similar conclusion...that she was killed and all of the things to ‘cover it up’ had been thought of to conceal her identity...those things that were confusing in the first one with Jack if he had been assassinated by a top source/government source etc...things left that meant he was traceable, we’re accounted for with Jennifer....


...episode 3 is completely different from the first two is all I’ll say and I’m watching the fourth atm ...which is also entirely different again and atm, it’s heartbreaking...

[Ammi]

..in episode 2....I also found some of the forensic stuff fascinating...which hadn’t been available to them at the time of her death...how they could age her by her teeth and the levels of exposure.../...amazing...

[Niamh.]

I think it was almost impossible for her to have shot herself in that way and for her hands to end up in the position they were across her chest still holding the gun with not a splatter of blood. Actually even forgetting about the lack of blood, I'm sure there is no way her hands could have ended up in that position if she'd just shot herself in the forehead like that. The only little thing that makes it less professional i guess is that a professional killer would know that her positioning etc would look odd but that could be explained away by maybe he just rushed it at the end because of the security guy knocking on her door, him getting out of the locked door without a trace or a sighting though is pretty odd

Also, yes the teeth aging method was pretty crazy

[Niamh.]

Oh and regarding both episodes

Yes, that's a good spot Ammi comparing the two, the second in comparison to Jacks death looked much more like how a professional assassin would operate

[Ammi]

...even without Jack’s ring being left on...(...and that narrowed it down to have a only been possible to be a very few people...)...his Rolex watch..?..they all have serial numbers, probably all watches do but Rolex definitely is a well known thing for anyone, let alone someone who is attempting to ‘cover up’ an assassination so a hugely traceable thing...every clothing label was removed from Jennifer’s stuff...anything that could make her traceable would have all been thought of with Jack, surely...why place his body for landfill but then leave every clue there.../...no stone left unturned etc...

...the only thing I didn’t understand with Jennifer is that they were placing her by her accent based on the Reception person having heard her speak..?...but she may have been skilled in accents/languages if she was a type of agent...

[Niamh.]

Re Jack - Also if this was a professional hit would you really beat a person to death as well? It doesn't sound very professional, would you not use a weapon instead, it's cleaner, quicker and wouldn't cause as much of a "scene"

Re Jennifer - yes I said that to Gav as well when they mentioned her accent, if she was undercover she would surely have been putting an accent on. Also what was the story with her only having tops/jackets etc and no ends? That was weird

[Ammi]

Interestingly, "Jennifer" is not the only person who died under mysterious circumstances in Norway, and whose background was traced to Belgium. The "Kambo" man, who was found in 1987 near train tracks in South Norway, was also found without identification on him and with the tags cut out of his clothes. Like "Jennifer," DNA testing revealed the connection to Belgium.

Furthermore, the now-infamous "Isdal" woman, found partially burned alive with poison in her stomach, was found in a remote part of Norway called Ice Valley and was similarly shown to have originated from or around Belgium. There were encrypted notes and disguises found in the woman's belongings, and the tags were cut out of her clothes. It was speculated at the time that she might have been a spy—and the similarities with "Jennifer" are eerily similar.

https://www.marieclaire.com/culture/a34108431/who-was-jennifer-fairgate-unsolved-mysteries/




...maybe for some reason, the person who checked in with her and killed her...was unable to remove the labelling from the lower clothing so took it instead...?...sounds a bit too simplistic though...

[Niamh.]

Well we know that they were disturbed and she was probably shot prematurely. It's unfortunate that they didn't test her system to see if she had been drugged though and all her samples had been destroyed when they came back to try and test that. No one from that region of Belgium recognised her though (but maybe she was from somewhere else in Belgium, she knew a proper address even though the number didn't exist. Maybe some weird serial killer connecting those women?

[Niamh.]

And not really important at all but......

Did anyone else think that for a 5 star "the place rich and famous people stayed" hotel it looked really grotty and not fancy at all? I've stayed in nicer looking 3 stars :laugh:

[Niamh.]

Oh also regarding episode 2 :

I thought there was a test they could do on a persons hands/fingers to see whether she had actually fired the gun, like it leaves a residue? They never mentioned anything like that, maybe those tests weren't available then or something?

[Ammi]

...also, as well as the lower parts of her clothing, she didn’t have anything with her, did she...any toiletries/toothbrush, hairbrush etc...nothing...?...but she had more bullets...why would she have multiple bullies to commit suicide...?..also, when the staff member knocked and the gunshot was heard...do we actually know that was the bullet that penetrated her head was what killed her...that she wasn’t already dead but that person was waiting for a member of staff or someone to knock so that they could pull the trigger, feigning the suicide, if she’d already been drugged as well...so they weren’t disturbed as such...they were waiting, sure that knock would be there soon...

[Ammi]

And not really important at all but......

Did anyone else think that for a 5 star "the place rich and famous people stayed" hotel it looked really grotty and not fancy at all? I've stayed in nicer looking 3 stars :laugh:

...maybe a very old, run down building that had been more the thing for celebrities/..royalty etc back in the day...?...that can be the thing as well...I think it’s been rebuilt now so it was obviously a very long time ago when it was a celebrity's hotel, I would guess...:laugh:..

[Niamh.]

...also, as well as the lower parts of her clothing, she didn’t have anything with her, did she...any toiletries/toothbrush, hairbrush etc...nothing...?...but she had more bullets...why would she have multiple bullies to commit suicide...?..also, when the staff member knocked and the gunshot was heard...do we actually know that was the bullet that penetrated her head was what killed her...that she wasn’t already dead but that person was waiting for a member of staff or someone to knock so that they could pull the trigger, feigning the suicide, if she’d already been drugged as well...so they weren’t disturbed as such...they were waiting, sure that knock would be there soon...



maybe but how did they get out without being seen? Or why would they want to try to get out without being when they've just drawn all that attention to the room? It would have been very risky leaving through the door when there's a huge chance that someone is watching the door. Unless they'd found another way in and out of there that didn't involve using the door at all?

[Ammi]

Oh also regarding episode 2 :

I thought there was a test they could do on a persons hands/fingers to see whether she had actually fired the gun, like it leaves a residue? They never mentioned anything like that, maybe those tests weren't available then or something?

...yeah he said that so much hadn’t been available then so I presumed that was something as well...her teeth though were able to be tested with modern forensics to help age her...

[Niamh.]

And I wonder.....

If we go with the theory that she was murdered, who wanted her identity hidden so badly and so thoroughly, herself or the murderer?

[Niamh.]

Oh Ammi I've just found these 2 theories, have a look :

Mr. F killed Jennifer Fairgate

With so little to go on, armchair detectives on Reddit have honed in on the suspicious "Mr. F," a Belgian man who was staying in the room next door the night Fairgate was killed. Per VG, he claimed to have heard nothing that night, and said he learned of Fairgate's death from the front desk when he checked out Saturday morning — but the body wasn't found until Saturday night. He was never interviewed by the police, and he stopped returning Wegner's calls after Wegner began to grill him about Oslo.

"I think Mr. F needs to be investigated," one Reddit user wrote. "Especially considering Mr. F's slip up, it would match that she died on Friday night."

The murderer was in room 2816
Others theorize that Fairgate's murderer was staying in room 2816, as Fairgate had a newspaper in her room that was labeled for 2816, not 2805. There was a thumb print on the bag, which has yet to be identified. Because old hotel registration cards were discarded in an office move in 2010, no one knows who was actually staying in 2816.
https://www.bustle.com/entertainment/oslo-case-jennifer-fairgate-theories-unsolved-mysteries-season-2

[Ammi]

maybe but how did they get out without being seen? Or why would they want to try to get out without being when they've just drawn all that attention to the room? It would have been very risky leaving through the door when there's a huge chance that someone is watching the door. Unless they'd found another way in and out of there that didn't involve using the door at all?

...I can’t think of any other way in or out of the room that others wouldn’t have either known about or found/...thought about...the guy kept saying that a locked door was nothing at all to someone ‘professional’ ...but he didn’t offer any other explanation or possibility of an exit...

[Niamh.]

...I can’t think of any other way in or out of the room that others wouldn’t have either known about or found/...thought about...the guy kept saying that a locked door was nothing at all to someone ‘professional’ ...but he didn’t offer any other explanation or possibility of an exit...

He did say that but what the murderer would have had to do was open it from the inside because he was in there already (which obviously would be easy) but then re lock it from the outside but using the inside only lock all while hoping that no one was outside the room just after he'd fired a gun...so a pretty good chance someone would be watching the room........

[Ammi]

Oh Ammi I've just found these 2 theories, have a look :

Mr. F killed Jennifer Fairgate

With so little to go on, armchair detectives on Reddit have honed in on the suspicious "Mr. F," a Belgian man who was staying in the room next door the night Fairgate was killed. Per VG, he claimed to have heard nothing that night, and said he learned of Fairgate's death from the front desk when he checked out Saturday morning — but the body wasn't found until Saturday night. He was never interviewed by the police, and he stopped returning Wegner's calls after Wegner began to grill him about Oslo.

"I think Mr. F needs to be investigated," one Reddit user wrote. "Especially considering Mr. F's slip up, it would match that she died on Friday night."

The murderer was in room 2816
Others theorize that Fairgate's murderer was staying in room 2816, as Fairgate had a newspaper in her room that was labeled for 2816, not 2805. There was a thumb print on the bag, which has yet to be identified. Because old hotel registration cards were discarded in an office move in 2010, no one knows who was actually staying in 2816.
https://www.bustle.com/entertainment/oslo-case-jennifer-fairgate-theories-unsolved-mysteries-season-2



...hmmmmmm, that all could also fit in with your ‘perhaps there was a serial killer’ responsible for other similar unexplained Oslo deaths theory....

[Niamh.]

...hmmmmmm, that all could also fit in with your ‘perhaps there was a serial killer’ responsible for other similar unexplained Oslo deaths theory....

Maybe she was a high class escort or something, it was a classy hotel had very rich guests, maybe the hotel knew why she was there and that's why they had "forgotten" to get a credit card from her, maybe she had accidentally died in the company of someone who had the means, power and pull to cover it up.

[Ammi]

Maybe she was a high class escort or something, it was a classy hotel had very rich guests, maybe the hotel knew why she was there and that's why they had "forgotten" to get a credit card from her, maybe she had accidentally died in the company of someone who had the means, power and pull to cover it up.

...maybe even one or more of the hotel staff helped with the cover up as well because the hotel allowed her to stay for specific high profile guests which wouldn’t look great for them either...?..wouldn’t that fit in perfectly as well...

[Niamh.]

...maybe even one or more of the hotel staff helped with the cover up as well because the hotel allowed her to stay for specific high profile guests which wouldn’t look great for them either...?..wouldn’t that fit in perfectly as well...

It would actually, plus they had the records from the room key of how many times she had entered the room and there was one period of time when she'd been out of the room for 20 hours, maybe she was in somebody elses room and died there and she didn't actually come back to her room but was "put" back........ they really need us on this case, i think we've cracked it :laugh:

[Smithy]

Gonna watch Ep 2 later but just re ep 1

If it was an assassination why chose such a messy way? Usually you’d expect a bullet to the head, clean and simple

[Niamh.]

Gonna watch Ep 2 later but just re ep 1

If it was an assassination why chose such a messy way? Usually you’d expect a bullet to the head, clean and simple

That's exactly what I said as well

[Niamh.]

Not to mention all the attention and noise beating someone to death could cause, it doesn't scream professional hit to me unless of course he was taken somewhere private and was beaten to get information and then later dumped in the bin

[Ammi]

It would actually, plus they had the records from the room key of how many times she had entered the room and there was one period of time when she'd been out of the room for 20 hours, maybe she was in somebody elses room and died there and she didn't actually come back to her room but was "put" back........ they really need us on this case, i think we've cracked it :laugh:

...we did crack it all and it only took a few hours with no detective training, look at us...99.1% suicide thought...but they didn’t account for that .9% TIBB people looking at it and saying....nope, not on our watch was there any suicide...if someone is dead then it had to be murder and it’s an inside job for sure../...a conspiracy of multiple guilts...

[Ammi]

...so far this series, the stories are all completely different so will get your thoughts going in different ways, which I’m liking actually...

[Ammi]

I agree. The video footage of him in the car park especially looked like he was having some sort of episode. It reminded me of that case about Elisa lamb, there's footage of her in a lift in a hotel acting really strange like she's scared and is looking round corners and going in and out of the lift and she ends up dead in the water tank in the roof of the hotel. The most common theory with her death also is that she had some sort f a break down, she had Bipolar as well iirc) here's the video (it's kind of creepy)

_rfLSVIA0L0

I also think that the truck could have caused alot of damage to him


..first episode.../Jack Wheeler...

...I hadn’t even considered this connection with the case and them both having bipolar and both behaving anxious and erratically ...and Elisa Lamb was discussed loads on the forum back in the day of ‘spooky stories’....

[Niamh.]

As long as there's no alien story this time :laugh:

I'll watch another 1 or 2 tonight

[Niamh.]

..first episode.../Jack Wheeler...

...I hadn’t even considered this connection with the case and them both having bipolar and both behaving anxious and erratically ...and Elisa Lamb was discussed loads on the forum back in the day of ‘spooky stories’....

It just instantly reminded me of her when they showed the footage of him in that parking garage, how he was behaving, don't you think?

[Ammi]

As long as there's no alien story this time :laugh:

I'll watch another 1 or 2 tonight

...wellllllllllllllll....:laugh:...they’re not exactly aliens buttttt...

[Ammi]

It just instantly reminded me of her when they showed the footage of him in that parking garage, how he was behaving, don't you think?

...I will look at it a little later to refresh...I can’t seem to access it atm, it’s saying unavailable...spooky...but I’ll rewatch later, a good call though...maybe withdrawal symptoms if bipolar medication wasn’t taken for a few days...

[Niamh.]

...wellllllllllllllll....:laugh:...they’re not exactly aliens buttttt...

oh god :laugh:

[Niamh.]

...I will look at it a little later to refresh...I can’t seem to access it atm, it’s saying unavailable...spooky...but I’ll rewatch later, a good call though...maybe withdrawal symptoms if bipolar medication wasn’t taken for a few days...

Try this one

_rfLSVIA0L0

ETA :Oh no, it will play if you select to watch it on youtube instead

[UserSince2005]

Try this one

_rfLSVIA0L0

ETA :Oh no, it will play if you select to watch it on youtube instead

This is the exact case i was thinking of when watching episode one.

His strange behavior on the CCTV reminded me exactly of her behavior.

[Ammi]

oh god :laugh:

...no seriously it is worth a watch because it’s after a tsunami and it shows so much actual footage ...it really is a must watch, it’s just all so devastating and a different type more personal related thing, rather than how we see things on the news...

[Niamh.]

This is the exact case i was thinking of when watching episode one.

His strange behavior on the CCTV reminded me exactly of her behavior.
And even if all his injuries were not consistent with just being moved around in the truck, who is to say he didn't have some sort of an accident, fell down some stairs maybe while in the middle of this paranoid break down and got into the bin himself while he was still alive? Or maybe he was acting erratically and ended up getting hit by a car and maybe the driver panicked and dumped his body? :think:

...no seriously it is worth a watch because it’s after a tsunami and it shows so much actual footage ...it really is a must watch, it’s just all so devastating and a different type more personal related thing, rather than how we see things on the news...

Yeah I will do, is that ep.3?

[Ammi]

Try this one

_rfLSVIA0L0

ETA :Oh no, it will play if you select to watch it on youtube instead

...yeah that’s very similar behaviour, isn’t it...a complete type of paranoia and I know that paranoia can very much be part of bi-polar...my work colleague who committed suicide a while ago...?...those were very much her symptoms frequently...

[Ammi]

This is the exact case i was thinking of when watching episode one.

His strange behavior on the CCTV reminded me exactly of her behavior.

...well done you as well, User for making that connection with Eliza Lamb and this vid...

[Ammi]

And even if all his injuries were not consistent with just being moved around in the truck, who is to say he didn't have some sort of an accident, fell down some stairs maybe while in the middle of this paranoid break down and got into the bin himself while he was still alive? Or maybe he was acting erratically and ended up getting hit by a car and maybe the driver panicked and dumped his body? :think:



Yeah I will do, is that ep.3?


...no it’s episode 4...episode 3 is frustrating but in an entirely different way to the first two...

[Niamh.]

...yeah that’s very similar behaviour, isn’t it...a complete type of paranoia and I know that paranoia can very much be part of bi-polar...my work colleague who committed suicide a while ago...?...those were very much her symptoms frequently...

Sorry to hear that Ammi. The mind is so fragile really

[Niamh.]

...no it’s episode 4...episode 3 is frustrating but in an entirely different way to the first two...

hhhmm ok, well I'll definitely get ep3 watched anyway, I'll try to get 4 in too, depending on how much of them Gavin can take in one go :laugh:

[Niamh.]

Here's a good time line for Ep 2

***the fact there was a second duvet found in her room that hadn't been there before is a bit odd, isn't it?***

As a norwegian I can clarify some of the details in case the coverage doesn't translate well. I'm also currently employed by a large hotel chain in Norway and my hotel is located in the outskirt of Oslo.

The rooms locking system detected the times a keycard was used to open the door to the room. I'll leave the times with possible explanations at the bottom of my comment.

Verdens Gang (VG) and Dagbladet (DB) are not typical tabloid newspapers, and they have a good reputation so the information in them is credible in my opinion.

She/whoever was in the room pressed ok on the remote to let the reception know that she had read the message.

The Winchester branded ammunition found in the bag was for the handgun that was used.

The handgun was a 9mm Browning semi-automatic produced in Belgium between 1990 and 1991.

She did not show any passport or other form of ID and asked to pay for her stay in cash, but the only time she actually paid for anything was when she gave an extra large tip for her food service (50 kroner, approx. 8 dollars at in 1995).

The door was locked from the inside and the keycards used to open it was left inside.

There was a second comforter that is seen in the pictures of the crime-scene, but it was never investigated.

The coroner claimed it was suspicious how there was large amounts of blood spatter, but none on the hands of the victim. She also had no bruising on her hands from the recoil of the weapon, nor any gunpowder residue.

Most of the evidence was thrown out between the first investigation and now, and the hotel threw out everything from the room as soon as the police finished gathering what they thought was necessary. This includes the second comforter as the police never filed it as evidence. As of now the police have dug up her grave to look for more evidence.

The keycard is not necessary to get out of a room, but you have to use it to get in. Here's a list of times a keycard was used to open the room.

At 22:44 on Wednesday, Jennifer opened the door to room 2805 for the first time. A little later, she (or someone else) must have left the room, because the card was used again at 00:21.

The next morning, Thursday, the card was used at 08:34. It is likely that she had eaten breakfast, but I have yet to find any witness accounts of it.

On Thursday around 13:00 the room was cleaned by Vigdis Valø and a 19-year old helper. They both agreed the room was empty in the interrogations that happened the next week. The door was not opened again until next morning at 08:50, neither by employees nor guests, which means Jennifer left the room once between 08:34 and 12:44 on Thursday, and didn't return until 08:50 the next day.

The next use of a key card was Friday at 08:50. This was a new key card code, so she must have been by the reception and extended her stay before this. A hotel employee saw her go into the room and just afterwards hang a "Do not disturb" sign on the door.

That card was last used at 11:03 the Friday morning.

Friday evening at 20:06, Jennifer ordered food from the hotel's room service. At 20:23 the food was delivered. Kristin Andersen, who brought the food, noticed that the room was very tidy. The room looked untouched, the bed as well. She used the word "sterile" in her testimony (?) on the case.

A security officer went to check on her. He heard a gunshot seconds after knocking on her door, and believing that two people were inside the room, he went back down and called the police instead of investigating himself. They found her body half an hour later.

The comment has been edited to correct errors and add more information.
https://www.reddit.com/r/UnresolvedMysteries/comments/6evqa7/in_1995_jennifer_fergate_was_found_dead_in_her/

[Niamh.]

Ep 3

hhhmmm not exactly an unsolved mystery is it? A very sad story what happened to that girl but over shadowing that is that absolutely mystifying stupidity of the justice system and whoever decided it would be a good idea to give any trust or rewards to a child rapist and murderer. It's just ****ing ludicrous, I felt so bad for her sister, how angry she must be at those people in charge, it's like pissing on her sisters memory really isn't it? Even if he's ever caught he will have had an almost full lifetime of being free

[Ammi]

...episode 3...

...he did attempt to sexually assault/rape Mary Ellen btw...I didn’t feel inclined at first to look at any other details of the case but then I wanted to know as well as it hadn’t quite completely made sense that he’d shot her twice when his history was as a sexual predator...it was when she screamed that he shot her twice...and then obviously as the officer had said, he’d gone back with a brick in realising she was still alive...such an evil crime, which had rightly received a severe penalty...I don’t agree with death penalties, which was obviously abolished but then life sentences were meant to apply in stead for such heinous crimes...

....the craziness with the justice system as well was that it wasn’t even coming up that he was wanted/...that he’d escaped...so if he’d had a traffic offence, etc...which would have been a hope...?..the police wouldn’t have been alerted still after all of those years.../...incredible......

[Ammi]

...it’s frustrating in an entirely different way, isn’t it...because there is no mystery but such a huge injustice ...

[Cherie]

Try this one

_rfLSVIA0L0

ETA :Oh no, it will play if you select to watch it on youtube instead

That was an interesting watch, very similar traits to what was happening in the garage

[Niamh.]

eP 3

That one just made me mad, such a miscarriage of justice and his father a minister as well, "a man of God" covering for his child killing son. Gross. The whole story just left a really bad taste in my mouth

[Cherie]

I have to say I am struggling to care about Jennifer, maybe it is because there are no family members at all to comment, only half way though

[Niamh.]

That was an interesting watch, very similar traits to what was happening in the garage

Very similar kind of agitation and paranoid behaviour, isn't it?

I have to say I am struggling to care about Jennifer, maybe it is because there are no family members at all to comment, only half way though

Yeah, it's like she's not a real person. After I watched it I wasn't that bothered but tbh chatting here about it with Ammi kind of peaked my interest about the mysteriousness of it :laugh:

[Ammi]

...you solved it .../..Jennifer...:laugh:..

[Niamh.]

...you solved it .../..Jennifer...:laugh:..

We Ammi, We :love:

[Ammi]

We Ammi, We :love:

...Niammi Mystery Squad...:love:..Miami Vice who...?...

[Niamh.]

...Niammi Mystery Squad...:love:..Miami Vice who...?...

:laugh:

Only got a chance to watch one last night, I'll get 1 or 2 done later, how many is there altogether?

[Ammi]

:laugh:

Only got a chance to watch one last night, I'll get 1 or 2 done later, how many is there altogether?

...oh I’ve just googled and I think that there might just be 6 episodes, actually...so I would only have one to go, I’ll watch this afternoon...they’re not something that the Mister tends to watch so it’s my light daytime viewing when he’s not here...

[Niamh.]

...oh I’ve just googled and I think that there might just be 6 episodes, actually...so I would only have one to go, I’ll watch this afternoon...they’re not something that the Mister tends to watch so it’s my light daytime viewing when he’s not here...

Yeah same here which is why I only watched one last night, oh and actually there's a Liverpool match on tonight as well so I'll be lucky to get one watched :laugh:

[Niamh.]

Never got a chance to watch one last night Ammi :( Liverpool won the match though

[Cherie]

I gave up on Jennifer in the end

half way through Mary Beth

[Niamh.]

I gave up on Jennifer in the end

half way through Mary Beth

It was harder to get into when you couldn't really get to know her, so odd though the whole case was mysterious and how she managed to stay totally untraceable

[Niamh.]

Just putting on ep4 now

[Niamh.]

Ep4

I really hate episodes like these ones, I wish they wouldn't put them in. I don't believe in ghosts but I'm very sorry for all those people's losses and maybe that helps them

Ep5

tough to know what happened here, I didn't have a really strong vibe either way. The one thing that was annoying me about the murder theory time line though was, the theory was she was grabbed, driven further away in her own car, thrown into the lake and then her car brought back to the church.....but when her body was found her car keys were in her coat pocket so how could someone haven driven her car back?

Ep6

oh these ones are so sad, not much to speculate on here really though as there was no clues at all. I know they're hoping the boys were stolen by someone childless looking for a child to raise but the thing that makes me think that isn't the case (or unlikely to be) is that the two boys were taken a few months a part. So - what? 2 different childless people decided to choose the same park and take a similar aged/sex child or the same person decided they now wanted 2 children so stole another 3 months later? Hhhhmmm I don't know.

So sad though, the mothers speaking about the boys is heartbreaking

[Saph]

I watched the first 3 last night. The Jack one didnt really interest me tbh.. I found the Jennifer one pretty interesting just because it was so anonymous and the fact that they think she might have been a secret agent.. the third one was frustrating because why on earth would they even let prisoners go shopping without supervision.. god knows how hes managed to escape for so long, could they not have threatened the dad who they clearly said knew where he was..

[Niamh.]

Ep3 - especially a ****ing child rapist/murderer @Saph, what the hell were they thinking? I hope her family sued the **** out of someone for allowing that to happen

[Smithy]

I’ve watched the first 3 but I haven’t found any of them as interesting as S1 tbh because there’s no leads or anything, with most of S1 it felt like you knew who had done it there was just a lack of evidence

[Niamh.]

Yeah, its the same all the way through tbh Smithy

[Ammi]

...episode 6...

...that was very strange I thought because with Christopher and Shane, they were last seen with a male and female older child or young adults...?...both last seen with those two people and those people, weren’t they interviewed by the police as well ...but it wasn’t pursued...that feels really odd to me...especially as they approached Rosa and asked if they could play with Shane...if they were t involved, was it someone that they knew...someone watching them because that person knew they liked to momentarily take the care of children from their parents in asking if they could play with...?....also, the man who sat down next to Rosa, talking to her and possibly distracting her...and ‘who reportedly spoke about how bad things happen to children whose parents do not pay enough attention, which is a sinister coincidence given what happened next.’...it’s all so terribly tragic and as the officer said, those first few hours were vital in hoping to find...but they weren’t able to...

‘These eerily similar cases have also been discussed in association with a third missing persons case, that being Andre Bryant, who disappeared at only one month old in March 1989.

In the days leading up to his abduction, his mother, Monique Rivera, had become acquainted with two women who had taken her shopping for new clothes.

They invited her out a second time, insisting that she bring her newborn boy with her; Monique’s body was found bludgeoned to death the next day, while Andre has never been found to this day.

As all three infants were African-American and residing in the same neighbourhood at the same time, there has been speculation that the disappearances could be connected.‘

...although differences in that disappearance, another resident of Martin Luther King Jr Towers...


.

[Ammi]

...with the Lady in the Lake one...

...I’m really not sure with JoAnn Romain, there are some oddities for sure...but there is so much family animosity with it being said that she was fearful Tim Matouk and feuds within the family etc, that’s all very clouded with all of the finger pointing and none of the bad blood might have any bearing so it’s hard to find that clearing...

[Ammi]

...Death Row Prisoner...


...I don’t believe in the death penalty but he was on death row for what he did and was obviously only saved from his death because of the law change...and then somehow, that alternate life sentence for his heinous crime...(...and his previous history also, this was a repeat offender of the most awful of assaults against children..)...was suddenly on day release...out shopping, un escorted in a shopping mall filled with families.../...filled with children...?..and no, I don’t think a lawsuit was ever filed by the family...I read that Brenda, Mary Ellen’s sister who was with her doing the laundry...had emotional counselling her whole life until her own death...so wrong and so sad...

[Niamh.]

Ep6

Christopher was left with his sisters wasn't he, they weren't the same children as Shane?! Or have I missed something

How do you know that man spoke about children being taken?

[Ammi]

...I should have put the link in to the particular site...I read a few sites, so I’ve just searched the one again...

https://www.radiotimes.com/news/tv/2020-10-19/unsolved-mysteries-stolen-kids-theories/

[Ammi]

...this is a cold case site.../CNN...

https://edition.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/11/30/grace.coldcase.walker/index.html

[Niamh.]

...I should have put the link in to the particular site...I read a few sites, so I’ve just searched the one again...



https://www.radiotimes.com/news/tv/2020-10-19/unsolved-mysteries-stolen-kids-theories/Wow strange that they didn't mention those things in the episode, they're pretty important

[Ammi]

...I was reading also, that so much is often left out because of the time restrictions of these episodes ....there seems to be a lot with the bad family blood complications of the Lady in the Lake as well that wasn’t in the episode...

...with the children being the same children with both missing boys...one was a ten yr old, the other a five yr old...it could be that the person who took or harmed them had a direct link with those children or actually using them but they didn’t know what was happening...the guy striking up that conversation about the previous missing child at the exact moment as well...those two children were seen later, returning to the playground through a hole or gap in a wire fence..(...so they had left and gone somewhere and then returned, possibly...if that’s correct...)...

[Niamh.]

Ep6

seems like a different mo to actually murder the mother with the Andre case

[Ammi]

...sadly, I don’t think that Christopher and Shane were sold, I think they were harmed but that’s just a feeling based on nothing...but either way, it’s strange that the disappearances stopped when that person must have felt that they were getting away with their crimes... but they didn’t continue in that play park...

[Niamh.]

I suppose that's the only thing that suggests it could be a childless person, the fact that it stopped after 2, not sure i believe that though still

[LukeB]

Lady in The Lake Episode

I do not believe Joann committed suicide at all, I think she was murdered by her cousin or some random attack but I just feel the cousin either did it or got someone to do it.

If it was her cousin it would make sense why the police were so awful with this case as they would cover up and protect their own... They were set on suicide but when things didn't make sense they still thought it was suicide and they didn't even took prints off Joann's handbag which was ruined.

As if she could walk on ice and that rock path with those heels and the heels weren't even damaged :skull: it just doesn't really make sense

[Smithy]

I really have no interest in finishing this season off, I watched the ghost one and it was just depressing, at least the alien one was low key funny

[UserSince2005]

Ive watched the first 4 now. Olso was definitely the most interesting. I really like to know what actually happened.

[Cherie]

Lady in the Lake

feel like it probably was suicide, as it started out with it all appearing like happy families and ended up with there actually being an incredible amount of animosity, she could have driven away and then returned, the only issue for me is the torn handbag but she could have done that herself, I didn’t see her filling up the car as a dealbreaker in it being suicide

[Cal.]

Lady in the Lake

feel like it probably was suicide, as it started out with it all appearing like happy families and ended up with there actually being an incredible amount of animosity, she could have driven away and then returned, the only issue for me is the torn handbag but she could have done that herself, I didn’t see her filling up the car as a dealbreaker in it being suicide

Yeah and I felt like the motives weren’t big enough to have her murdered? I think her daughter Michelle came across really well though, but I think it may be denial on the family’s part?

[Cherie]

Yeah and I felt like the motives weren’t big enough to have her murdered? I think her daughter Michelle came across really well though, but I think it may be denial on the family’s part?

I think they are in denial as well, suicide with no note or indication the person had suicidal tendencies must be very difficult to come to terms with, she may have been suffering from some kind of paranoia as well as she thought she was being followed/watched?

[LukeB]

Lady in the Lake

feel like it probably was suicide, as it started out with it all appearing like happy families and ended up with there actually being an incredible amount of animosity, she could have driven away and then returned, the only issue for me is the torn handbag but she could have done that herself, I didn’t see her filling up the car as a dealbreaker in it being suicide

Yeah and I felt like the motives weren’t big enough to have her murdered? I think her daughter Michelle came across really well though, but I think it may be denial on the family’s part?

Tbf a motive is a motive wether it’s big or small. There’s more signs it being a murder than a suicide imo. Could be a random attack that gone wrong or it was her cousin. handbag was torn, car was moved, she had some bruises, she didn’t leave a note, it’s against her belief and her phone was missing(which is always the first thing people get rid of after a murder)

[Shaun]

watched the WH Aide, Norway and Mary Beth episodes earlier... I was slightly bored by the WH Aide one just because there're so many loose ends and alternative explanations and it's basically bait for a bunch of sceptics to start guessing what he found out at work and how he "knew too much" etc etc.

The Norwegian one was interesting just from the DNA perspectives, how times have changed even since the 90s, and they were able to narrow down her DOB to a specific year. I do think she was a spy of some kind... and East Germans in the 70s just screams all sorts of political intrigue.

The Mary Beth one is equal parts heartbreaking and infuriating. Like Ammi said: staunch death penalty opponent here, and believer in rehabilitation, etc, but... what a piece of ****. And the frustrating part is it isn't really a mystery at all... someone knows where he is and isn't telling.