Zaha receives racist abuse, person arrested.

[Beso]

https://www.newsobserver.com/entertainment/celebrities/article244174727.html

[arista]

https://news.sky.com/story/wilfried-zaha-crystal-palace-star-reveals-racist-abuse-sent-to-him-ahead-of-match-against-aston-villa-12027047

Yes 12 year old
arrested.

Not good

[Brother Leon]

Examples need to be made of all these racist online trolls. I don’t care if the kid is 12.

[hijaxers]

Absolutley shocking behaviour from a 12 yr old ,what kind of parents does he have , this family need looking at big time by social services.

[Niamh.]

Are you even legally allowed have a Twitter account at 12? His parents clearly weren't monitoring his online activity

[Crimson Dynamo]

They should have focused on his sh1t form and the fact he never turns up. Awful overrated pl ayer

[Shaun]

They should have focused on his sh1t form and the fact he never turns up. Awful overrated pl ayer

Of course that is the deplorable thing here. How telling, lol

[Smithy]

Are you even legally allowed have a Twitter account at 12? His parents clearly weren't monitoring his online activity
No, you have to be 13
They should have focused on his sh1t form and the fact he never turns up. Awful overrated pl ayer
Really don’t understand how you’re still on this website, the most blatant troll since thetruth

[Mitchell]

Absolutely vile

[Cherie]

Horrible, but let’s keep it in perspective, it’s a 12 year old, so maybe let’s wait and see what the story is before we hang him out to dry

[Beso]

Examples need to be made of all these racist online trolls. I don’t care if the kid is 12.

What do you suggest?

[GiRTh]

Horrible, but let’s keep it in perspective, it’s a 12 year old, so maybe let’s wait and see what the story is before we hang him out to dryA few days ago you were fine with a 13 year old being grabbed by police cuz he matched a vague description. Your attitude then was - but he matched the description so....:shrug: - but this is different eh? :conf:

[GiRTh]

On topic - He sent the message and they caught him. Good work by the boys in blue. :thumbs:

[user104658]

If he's 12 it didn't come from nowhere, and he had absolutely no idea what he was doing. Hopefully the shock will be enough, at most I'd suggest him being made to work with a charity to raise his awareness.

Let's not start asking for 12 year olds to be harshly punished for non-violent crimes though :facepalm:.

[GiRTh]

If he's 12 it didn't come from nowhere, and he had absolutely no idea what he was doing. Hopefully the shock will be enough, at most I'd suggest him being made to work with a charity to raise his awareness.

Let's not start asking for 12 year olds to be harshly punished for non-violent crimes though :facepalm:.I believe we should exercise caution with all minors but sadly....Well I wont finish that thought :thumbs:

[user104658]

I believe we should exercise caution with all minors but sadly....Well I wont finish that thought :thumbs:

There isn't a "but", trying to attribute adult thought processes and motivations to any 12 year old is utter madness.

[GiRTh]

OF course and of all minors.

[GoldHeart]

Are you even legally allowed have a Twitter account at 12? His parents clearly weren't monitoring his online activity

Niamh the fact that kids are watching porn , and god knows what else are you really that surprised that a 12 year old has a twitter account ?? .

kids easily lie about their age on platforms they either shouldn't be on or where they have to be older .

But yeah 12 or not this kind of behaviour is vile .

[Mystic Mock]

Examples need to be made of all these racist online trolls. I don’t care if the kid is 12.

Arresting a 12 year old though?

You could educate the child into understanding how it is wrong to be racist rather than giving them the same punishment as an adult being racist.

[Ammi]

...really saddening that a 12 yr old child would hold such a prejudice mindset as to express it online in such a hateful way...:sad:...really horrendous for Wilfried Zaha to be the person the prejudice is aimed at, I wonder what his thoughts are in finding out it was a child as well.../...the whole thing is all just so wrong...

[Cherie]

A few days ago you were fine with a 13 year old being grabbed by police cuz he matched a vague description. Your attitude then was - but he matched the description so....:shrug: - but this is different eh? :conf:

I wasn’t ‘fine’ with it at all ...I just wasn’t having a hysterical reaction, same here

Btw I don’t have an issue with him being arrested, however in the pervious case, you thought the police were heavy handed, even though someone was stabbed, now an arrest is perfectly fine? I will wait for the full story before. I fully judge him, he could have special needs or be easily influenced by others or he could be a horrible twat from a horrible family we don’t know enough yet

Have you considered they may have arrested the wrong family member Girth?

[bots]

a 12 year old kid doesn't come up with that sort of stuff on his own

[GiRTh]

I wasn’t ‘fine’ with it at all ...I just wasn’t having a hysterical reaction, same here

Btw I don’t have an issue with him being arrested, however in the pervious case, you thought the police were heavy handed, even though someone was stabbed, now an arrest is perfectly fine? I will wait for the full story before. I fully judge him, he could have special needs or be easily influenced by others or he could be a horrible twat from a horrible family we don’t know enough yet

Have you considered they may have arrested the wrong family member Girth?The big difference is that in the other case they didn’t get the right guy. Whether or not you think this particular individual was entirely responsible is not an issue, the issue is that the police are happy with the investigation; they’re not grabbing up random people so an arrest is entirely appropriate. Why do you think anyone would think otherwise?

[Cherie]

The big difference is that in the other case they didn’t get the right guy. Whether or not you think this particular individual was entirely responsible is not an issue, the issue is that the police are happy with the investigation; they’re not grabbing up random people so an arrest is entirely appropriate. Why do you think anyone would think otherwise?

You have no idea if they got the right guy yet? there has been no further statements on the matter, so in your new book everyone arrested is guilty...?

[GiRTh]

You have no idea if they got the right guy yet? there has been no further statements on the matter, so in your new book everyone arrested is guilty...?The authorities seem to be on the right lines. Do you doubt the source is in that house or something?

My main issue is that they’re not grabbing up people in the street.

[Cherie]

The authorities seem to be on the right lines. Do you doubt the source is in that house or something?

My main issue is that they’re not grabbing up people in the street.

I presume they arrested on the IP address? so it probably was him as a more savvy internet user might have covered his tracks? but it hasn't been confirmed as yet so I don't really see what the issue is with waiting for the full story

[GiRTh]

'Full story' :conf:

A player was racially abused and they arrested the person responsible for the message or responsible for the PC that sent the message. What full story? They wouldn’t have made an arrest if they were not sure of those facts? :shrug:

Tis kid maybe experiencing terrible abuse but regarding the facts of the case, the facts are quite clear cut.

[Cherie]

'Full story' :conf:

A player was racially abused and they arrested the person responsible for the message or responsible for the PC that sent the message. What full story? They wouldn’t have made an arrest if they were not sure of those facts? :shrug:

Tis kid maybe experiencing terrible abuse but regarding the facts of the case, the facts are quite clear cut.



so the police don't arrest white people in error now :facepalm:

Yes the message came from that IP address, a 12 year old has been arrested, but not charged, why are you so keen to move on? if he was a 30 year old living on his own I would say case closed, but its not quite that is it?

[GiRTh]

so the police don't arrest white people in error now :facepalm:

Yes the message came from that IP address, a 12 year old has been arrested, but not charged, why are you so keen to move on? if he was a 30 year old living on his own I would say case closed, but its not quite that is it?WHat on earth are you talking about?

Do you have other facts as you're already speculating? They arrested him so for now the case is progressing :shrug:

[AnnieK]

I would imagine they have a pretty strong case to believe it was the child. If they have discovered the messages were sent from an IP at that house their first line of enquiry would have been with the person who pays the bill for the internet....or they have further investigated and found it to have been sent from a particular device....possibly phone / computer belonging to the child.

[Cherie]

WHat on earth are you talking about?

Do you have other facts as you're already speculating? They arrested him so for now the case is progressing :shrug:

That it exactly what I am saying and which you took great issue with to begin with, he has not been charged so like anyone else arrested, he is innocent until proven otherwise, so it seems we have come full circle

I am not speculating about anything I was just offering up scenarios as to why it might not be as cut and dried as you were originally suggesting.

[Cherie]

I would imagine they have a pretty strong case to believe it was the child. If they have discovered the messages were sent from an IP at that house their first line of enquiry would have been with the person who pays the bill for the internet....or they have further investigated and found it to have been sent from a particular device....possibly phone / computer belonging to the child.

They arrested the wrong person initially in the case where the PC was killed during a quad bike theft so its not unknown for the police to knee jerk

[GiRTh]

[/B]

That it exactly what I am saying and which you took great issue with to begin with, he has not been charged so like anyone else arrested, he is innocent until proven otherwise, so it seems we have come full circle

I am not speculating about anything I was just offering up scenarios as to why it might not be as cut and dried as you were originally suggesting.If he’s' innocent then he'll have his day in court and can tell the judge how even though the Ip matches his it wasnt him. Might be a difficult one to sell IMO.

You have not offered any scenarios, sorry?

[GiRTh]

They arrested the wrong person initially in the case where the PC was killed during a quad bike theft so its not unknown for the police to knee jerkThey do that dont they. :thumbs:

[Cherie]

They do that dont they. :thumbs:

Yes they do?

[Cherie]

If he’s' innocent then he'll have his day in court and can tell the judge how even though the Ip matches his it wasnt him. Might be a difficult one to sell IMO.

You have not offered any scenarios, sorry?


Yes I did, if it were an adult living on their own there wouldn't be any further questions to be asked

[GiRTh]

[/B]

Yes I did, if it were an adult living on their own there wouldn't be any further questions to be askedRegarding the case, what questions do you think need to be asked?

Has it occured to you that the kid might be a twat and his family twats too. ? :shrug: Seems a likely scenario to me.

[Cherie]

I wasn’t ‘fine’ with it at all ...I just wasn’t having a hysterical reaction, same here

Btw I don’t have an issue with him being arrested, however in the pervious case, you thought the police were heavy handed, even though someone was stabbed, now an arrest is perfectly fine? I will wait for the full story before. I fully judge him, he could have special needs or be easily influenced by others or he could be a horrible twat from a horrible family we don’t know enough yet

Have you considered they may have arrested the wrong family member Girth?

Regarding the case, what questions do you think need to be asked?





Has it occured to you that the kid might be a twat and his family twats too. ? :shrug: Seems a likely scenario to me.


why don't you read what I post, rather than what you think I post

[GiRTh]

why don't you read what I post, rather than what you think I post
I know what you posted. I always know but often find it confusing. :thumbs:

[AnnieK]

They arrested the wrong person initially in the case where the PC was killed during a quad bike theft so its not unknown for the police to knee jerk

They are known for knee jerk reactions, I'm not doubting that. What I meant though was they wouldn't have got the ip address and immediately thought that the 12 year old was responsible. They must either have had evidence, confession or the parent's telling them it was the 12 year old to make the arrest surely? If my IP pinged a criminal offense with the police I assume as the bill.payer I would have to prove it wasn't me committing the crime initially rather than them come in and instinctively decide it was the kid in the house.

[Niamh.]

They are known for knee jerk reactions, I'm not doubting that. What I meant though was they wouldn't have got the ip address and immediately thought that the 12 year old was responsible. They must either have had evidence, confession or the parent's telling them it was the 12 year old to make the arrest surely? If my IP pinged a criminal offense with the police I assume as the bill.payer I would have to prove it wasn't me committing the crime initially rather than them come in and instinctively decide it was the kid in the house.

Or maybe they blamed the kid thinking that he wouldn't get in trouble over it hhmmmm They'd be right scumbags to do that though (but when you look at what was sent to that football player, it wouldn't be a stretch to think that they are)

[user104658]

Or maybe they blamed the kid thinking that he wouldn't get in trouble over it hhmmmm They'd be right scumbags to do that though (but when you look at what was sent to that football player, it wouldn't be a stretch to think that they are)

It's a good point because as has been said, a 12 year old doesn't start posting racist abuse without being raised with that attitude (or at least by people who don't care enough to identify and address attitudes they're getting elsewhere, if it's coming from a friendship group). That being the case, I'd suggest it's perfectly plausible that the comments were posted by an adult and blamed on the 12 year old because the consequences are less likely to be severe (criminal charges, loss of employment etc.)

Either way, even assuming they did come from him, I personally think it's a stretch too far to brand a 12 year old "a racist" and to take any action other than an attempt at education. 12 ffs. They have absolutely no idea what they're doing or saying, it's becoming increasingly common to project adult motivations on kids these days and it's really troubling. Again, the -only- time it's appropriate to take further legal action against a child is when physical violence is involved.

Politicised winky-faces and whataboutery in a case involving a child is in very poor taste, is all I'll say. But hey, it's 2020.

[Niamh.]

It's a good point because as has been said, a 12 year old doesn't start posting racist abuse without being raised with that attitude (or at least by people who don't care enough to identify and address attitudes they're getting elsewhere, if it's coming from a friendship group). That being the case, I'd suggest it's perfectly plausible that the comments were posted by an adult and blamed on the 12 year old because the consequences are less likely to be severe (criminal charges, loss of employment etc.)

Either way, even assuming they did come from him, I personally think it's a stretch too far to brand a 12 year old "a racist" and to take any action other than an attempt at education. 12 ffs. They have absolutely no idea what they're doing or saying, it's becoming increasingly common to project adult motivations on kids these days and it's really troubling. Again, the -only- time it's appropriate to take further legal action against a child is when physical violence is involved.

Politicised winky-faces and whataboutery in a case involving a child is in very poor taste, is all I'll say. But hey, it's 2020.

Yeah, I think a "re-education" type programme would be most appropriate although I'm not sure how successful that would be either if he's learning this stuff from his parents

[Cherie]

I know what you posted. I always know but often find it confusing. :thumbs:

Do you? I thought it was pretty plain myself but whatever. Maybe I'm a bit too thick to transfer my thoughts adequately, I am Irish after all :thumbs:

[Nicky91]

racist behaviour should not be tolerated, no matter what age

however i would not make it a jail sentence, given it regards a 12 yr old here, you can still try to educate this kid on how wrong racism is

[user104658]

Yeah, I think a "re-education" type programme would be most appropriate although I'm not sure how successful that would be either if he's learning this stuff from his parents

My thoughts are that a 12 year old is very likely to be an echo chamber of their parents and friends, and while those attitudes CAN follow them for life if they're not getting alternate input, it's far from too late. Before about 14 they're simply not neurologically capable of any real introspection at all. Plenty of adults look back on their attitudes from childhood/teens and are gobsmacked. The main issue with treating it harshly/shaming is that it doesn't usually "nip it in the bud" at all - it compounds and cements it. That's true even in adults, but if it happens at that age it's likely to be set in stone.

[GiRTh]

Lots of comments regarding re-education. Would that be for just the child or the whole family, as we seem to have a consensus that this child may not be fully responsible. If the attitudes are so ingrained in the child then how would that help if they are still growing up in a toxic environment?

[GiRTh]

Do you? I thought it was pretty plain myself but whatever. Maybe I'm a bit too thick to transfer my thoughts adequately, I am Irish after all :thumbs:Its not plain at all. Hence my confusion.

[Niamh.]

Lots of comments regarding re-education. Would that be for just the child or the whole family, as we seem to have a consensus that this child may not be fully responsible. If the attitudes are so ingrained in the child then how would that help if they are still growing up in a toxic environment?

Yeah that's what I was saying, the kid is 12, it's more than likely that he got those attitudes from his family and imo as he's 12 the parents should be responsible for him and so should also be looked at as to why he's not being supervised online and why he has those views in the first place, he didn't just wake up one morning and decide he's a racist, that's learned from somewhere

[GiRTh]

Yeah that's what I was saying, the kid is 12, it's more than likely that he got those attitudes from his family and imo as he's 12 the parents should be responsible for him and so should also be looked at as to why he's not being supervised online and why he has those views in the first place, he didn't just wake up one morning and decide he's a racist, that's learned from somewhereAnd my point is re-education for the whole family will never happen or be met with a great deal of resistance. Cant see his family saying 'Yeah we're horribly racist but we're gonna stop now we've been caught.

The child has a few decisions to make in the next few years so good luck to him but for this incident we must talk about more than re-education

[Cherie]

Horrible, but let’s keep it in perspective, it’s a 12 year old, so maybe let’s wait and see what the story is before we hang him out to dry

I wasn’t ‘fine’ with it at all ...I just wasn’t having a hysterical reaction, same here

Btw I don’t have an issue with him being arrested, however in the previous case, you thought the police were heavy handed, even though someone was stabbed, now an arrest is perfectly fine? I will wait for the full story before. I fully judge him, he could have special needs or be easily influenced by others or he could be a horrible twat from a horrible family we don’t know enough yet

Have you considered they may have arrested the wrong family member Girth?

Its not plain at all. Hence my confusion.

Please tell me which parts of those two posts you struggled with

[GiRTh]

Please tell me which parts of those two posts you struggled withIts not just one thread.

[Cherie]

Its not just one thread.

oh please! we are talking about this specific thread, don't move the goalposts, I see you have no issue understanding Niamh's or TS's posts who are essentially making the same point I did earlier...farce!

[GiRTh]

oh please! we are talking about this specific thread, don't move the goalposts, I see you have no issue with Niamh or TS who are essentially making the same point I did earlier...farce!And as usual you bring others into it. Not today Cherie.

[Cherie]

And as usual you bring others into it. Not today Cherie.

You can't answer the question Girth, my posts have been clear, so looks like you like a bit of trolling?

[user104658]

Lots of comments regarding re-education. Would that be for just the child or the whole family, as we seem to have a consensus that this child may not be fully responsible. If the attitudes are so ingrained in the child then how would that help if they are still growing up in a toxic environment?

Because it shows them an alternative viewpoint at an early stage so that when they are old enough to start forming their own thoughts and opinions rather than just parroting their parents, they're more likely to actually give these things some thought and diverge from their parents attitudes. Plenty of people who were raised in families with shocking beliefs grow up not sharing, and even vocally rejecting, those beliefs. That's usually because they've had SOME alternate input in those formative years that has gotten at least a foothold (friends, parents of friends, an aunt or uncle who is very different to their parents, etc.). The spark of a different way of thinking can be enough when it comes to those introspective years. Even if they still largely mirror their parents attitudes when they're young.

Punishing, persecuting and shaming on the other hand results in bitterness and rejection of those alternate views and just makes it more likely that they'll be carbon-copies as adults.

for this incident we must talk about more than re-education

Why? You've yet to give one reason at all, let alone a good one.

[Niamh.]

And my point is re-education for the whole family will never happen or be met with a great deal of resistance. Cant see his family saying 'Yeah we're horribly racist but we're gonna stop now we've been caught.

The child has a few decisions to make in the next few years so good luck to him but for this incident we must talk about more than re-education

I know, I know. It's a really horrible situation and really saddening when you see a child that age come out with such ugly words and such disrespect for another person who absolutely doesn't deserve it. I just think at that age parents should be held accountable as well as the child

[GiRTh]

Because it shows them an alternative viewpoint at an early stage so that when they are old enough to start forming their own thoughts and opinions rather than just parroting their parents, they're more likely to actually give these things some thought and diverge from their parents attitudes. Plenty of people who were raised in families with shocking beliefs grow up not sharing, and even vocally rejecting, those beliefs. That's usually because they've had SOME alternate input in those formative years that has gotten at least a foothold (friends, parents of friends, an aunt or uncle who is very different to their parents, etc.). The spark of a different way of thinking can be enough when it comes to those introspective years. Even if they still largely mirror their parents attitudes when they're young.

Punishing, persecuting and shaming on the other hand results in bitterness and rejection of those alternate views and just makes it more likely that they'll be carbon-copies as adults.



Why? You've yet to give one reason at all, let alone a good one.We must talk about more than re-education because the resources are just not there for someone so young and who appears to be so far ingrained. Also, if the motivation for this re-education comes due to this incident then I doubt it’ll work. The most racist person I ever met was not a crusty old geezer but a teenager who genuinely had abhorrent thoughts about minorities that he’d heard from just one family member all his life., The other members of his family were fine but he was strangely drawn to his sick uncle who hated everyone. What do we do in that case? Who do we educate? That guy was 15 BTW. Last I heard he was in prison.

[GiRTh]

I know, I know. It's a really horrible situation and really saddening when you see a child that age come out with such ugly words and such disrespect for another person who absolutely doesn't deserve it. I just think at that age parents should be held accountable as well as the child
Totally agree.

[GiRTh]

You can't answer the question Girth, my posts have been clear, so looks like you like a bit of trolling?I pointed out an inconsistency with a point you made about another teenager. Theres no trolling you have been inconsistent.

[user104658]

We must talk about more than re-education because the resources are just not there for someone so young and who appears to be so far ingrained. Also, if the motivation for this re-education comes due to this incident then I doubt it’ll work. The most racist person I ever met was not a crusty old geezer but a teenager who genuinely had abhorrent thoughts about minorities that he’d heard from just one family member all his life., The other members of his family were fine but he was strangely drawn to his sick uncle who hated everyone. What do we do in that case? Who do we educate? That guy was 15 BTW. Last I heard he was in prison.

I see what you're saying to an extent although I sort of disagree with the excample; if the other family members were allowing a child to spend enough time with a hateful family member to pick up and copy his hatefulness, then they were not "fine" at all, they were complicit. They might not have expressed or shared the views, but they clearly didn't care enough to keep him away from it.

I think it's also worth pointing out that most of the worst racism I've heard came from teenagers too - mostly trying to be controversial, mostly attention-seeking - and the vast majority didn't grow up to be racist adults in the slightest.

I've also sadly encountered through 10 years in a bookies, a whole host of adult racists, ranging from the throwaway-casual to the deep rooted and hateful. It's different.

Anyway - I'm still at a loss as to what you're suggesting. You have two options really - attempt at compassionate education, or punishment. Education MIGHT not work but has a decent chance of at least mitigating the worst of it, for many kids. Punishment simply will not work. People don't stop holding racist views because of the threat of punishment or shaming. Some MIGHT stop airing those views, at least publicly. Most not even that. The worst case scenario is that it compounds it and generates sympathy for racist attitudes - we surely have AMPLE evidence that that is the case, at this point.

If you have an option #3 other than education or punishment, then that would be worth discussing. I'm just not convinced that "someone somewhere has to come up with something better!" is really much of an argument.

[Cherie]

I pointed out an inconsistency with a point you made about another teenager. Theres no trolling you have been inconsistent.

No I haven't I have explained myself very clearly, where is the inconsistency if I agree with both arrests?

[GiRTh]

The carrot or the stick is a difficult decision for any child.

In the case I mentioned the family shut the racist uncle down when he talked but the kid was drawn to him. Other than cutting him off from the uncle he loved not much they could have done. Not much can be done so maybe a spell inside a bit earlier might have done him good. Who knows? Obviously everyone is different but to just say ‘Lets re-educate’ sounds like a lot of nothing to me.

[user104658]

The carrot or the stick is a difficult decision for any child.

Only if you know absolutely nothing about child psychology.

[GiRTh]

No I haven't I have explained myself very clearly, where is the inconsistency if I agree with both arrests?And now you want a tit for tat back and forth. Not today Cherie. You werent talking about 'perspectve' in the other thread.

[Cherie]

And now you want a tit for tat back and forth. Not today Cherie. You werent talking about 'perspectve' in the other thread.

Both were arrested, there was no need for it on the other thread, as it was quickly sorted out that the kid was not involved.....has there been a statement on this yet Girth? No.... so maybe not so clearcut...but keep digging

[user104658]

In the case I mentioned the family shut the racist uncle down when he talked but the kid was drawn to him. Other than cutting him off from the uncle he loved not much they could have done.

In my opinion, if an influence on a child is THAT toxic then absolutely yes he should have been taken out of frequent contact with that family member long before it became an issue or he developed an attachment.

maybe a spell inside a bit earlier might have done him good. Who knows?

Literally every study of child incarceration shows that the result is a child (and then adult) who is significantly MORE likely to re-offend and have their views and attitudes compounded by being locked up with, and inevitably making friends with, like-minded people. It's really not a "who knows". This stuff is well studied, but I know it's more fashionable to go with gut feelings than established academic observations. Again... after all... it's 2020.

There are examples of youths being incarcerated and coming out of it for the better. That would be when the incarceration involves large amounts of therapy, training and education and is not punitive.

[GiRTh]

Only if you know absolutely nothing about child psychology.Well, it depends what I meant by stick but don’t query that just make a snarky point eh?

Point taken so tell us all, how we ‘re-educate’ a whole family or a family with one racist or an extended family of racists or family who are just told not to mix with other races. Its much more than just saying ‘Lets re-educate’. Re-educate How?

[user104658]

Well, it depends what I meant by stick but don’t query that just make a snarky point eh?

Point taken so tell us all, how we ‘re-educate’ a whole family or a family with one racist or an extended family of racists or family who are just told not to mix with other races. It's much more than just saying ‘Lets re-educate’. Re-educate How?

I don't know what else you could have meant by stick... the "carrot or stick" metaphor is an allegory for "reward or punishment". "Use the stick" means punish, there isn't an alternative meaning.

Also I've been quite clear that it's not about educating the entire family, it's about introducing concepts to the child early to increase the likelihood that they'll have different thoughts and feelings about the issue when they're old enough for real independent critical thought (not 12). We (for good reason) don't take action with "whole families" based on our assumptions about the actions of one family member. If one of those family members does something in future, or if it's shown that they were more involved in this case than they're admitting, then appropriate action should be taken against those family members. If they're adults that may well be completely different to the action you'd take with a 12 year old.

[GiRTh]

Both were arrested, there was no need for it on the other thread, as it was quickly sorted out that the kid was not involved.....has there been a statement on this yet Girth? No.... so maybe not so clearcut...but keep digging
You’re the one who keeps responding. I said bye bye ages ago. Is this finally bye? Catch up with you next time you comment on these issues.

[GiRTh]

I don't know what else you could have meant by stick... the "carrot or stick" metaphor is an allegory for "reward or punishment". "Use the stick" means punish, there isn't an alternative meaning.

Also I've been quite clear that it's not about educating the entire family, it's about introducing concepts to the child early to increase the likelihood that they'll have different thoughts and feelings about the issue when they're old enough for real independent critical thought (not 12). We (for good reason) don't take action with "whole families" based on our assumptions about the actions of one family member. If one of those family members does something in future, or if it's shown that they were more involved in this case than they're admitting, then appropriate action should be taken against those family members. If they're adults that may well be completely different to the action you'd take with a 12 year old.What if you get a teenager who insists on hanging out with his racist uncle. How do you stop him? Still on the same case BTW. How do you tell someone that their beloved uncle is a wrong un? You make it sound easy trust me it aint. Particularly when you meet someone who thinks the racist uncle isn’t all that bad, considering al things etc and is basically twisting themselves into knots to justify his behaviour and language. Is it as easy as you make it sound? Not in my expereince
Your ideas are sound in theory but suggestion in some of the people I’ve seen simply wont do it all. And I’m not talking about 30 years old either. Teenagers and mid twenties

[Cherie]

You’re the one who keeps responding. I said bye bye ages ago. Is this finally bye? Catch up with you next time you comment on these issues.

oh you said goodbye so we are done? little lady can go hush now, you are finished with her...I don't think so :laugh:

[user104658]

What if you get a teenager who insists on hanging out with his racist uncle. How do you stop him? Still on the same case BTW. How do you tell someone that their beloved uncle is a wrong un? You make it sound easy trust me it aint. Particularly when you meet someone who thinks the racist uncle isn’t all that bad, considering al things etc and is basically twisting themselves into knots to justify his behaviour and language. Is it as easy as you make it sound? Not in my expereince
Your ideas are sound in theory but suggestion in some of the people I’ve seen simply wont do it all. And I’m not talking about 30 years old either. Teenagers and mid twenties

I didn't intend to make it sound easy, parenting (well) isn't easy at all, and I'm very aware that an awful lot of people don't have the inclination (or sometimes the energy) to do it. That's really a separate and MUCH more involved debate, but I doubt it's one that would end with me thinking that the answer is punishing the children involved.

[GiRTh]

oh you said goodbye so we are done? little lady can go hush now, you are finished with her...I don't think so :laugh:
Read whatever you want into it. Made my point which is – You showed an inconsistency with how another teenager was treated. As I pointed out you weren’t talking about perspective in the other thread. This will without doubt be my last reply as I’ve said I aint getting into a silly back and forth. You can even insult me in your inevitable reply to this post but I won’t reply. See ya next time.

[Cherie]

I have seen what was written now and it looks like something a 12 year old would write rather than an adult

His message comes after Zaha was the subject of vile racist messages before his game with Villa on Sunday.

In two messages, Zaha was told 'you better not score tomorrow you black *******' before the poster added 'or I'll come to your house dressed as a ghost.'

The poster, who later posted an apology to Zaha in a caption of a photo of Aston Villa players taking a knee, also sent an picture of a Ku Klux Klan gathering, to underline the threat, and another displaying an edited version of a box of cornflakes, instead carrying the words '*******flakes' and displaying a man with his face blacked up.

West Midlands Police confirmed a 12-year-old from Solihull has been arrested as part of their investigation.

The Premier League are looking into the incident as part of their discriminatory abuse system.

In response to the arrest, the PFA said: 'The posts sent to @wilfriedzaha ahead of today's game were sickening and abhorrent. Players continue to be the target of relentless abuse online.

[Ammi]

...I guess one of the problems is that if there are prejudiced/bigoted influences etc in the home...there is very little to counter that in terms of community policing/in the education system/with our government officials etc...there used to be projects which focused on community cohesion, which then extends to wider views and mindsets...schools would ‘twin’ with other schools and experiences and thoughts were shared...but sadly, constantly meeting data requirements and lack of funding etc has made these things less possible...