Normalising pedophilia..

[Josy]

Click the attachment and post your opinion on this?

Edit - the image attached is a hoax but what is your opinion on this idea of pedophilia being a sexual orientation?

I find it absolutely horrific and this claim that it's a natural sexual orientation needs stopped ASAP, it's a pathetic attempt to desensitise the public to that behaviour in order to normalise pedophilia.

Theres is nothing normal about it, an adult attracted to another adult is natural, an adult attracted to a child is a ****ing abomination.

5009

[Smithy]

Oh god I bet £1000 I know where this thread is gonna go

[Niamh.]

wtf?

[Niamh.]

Oh god I bet £1000 I know where this thread is gonna go

?

[Josy]

Oh god I bet £1000 I know where this thread is gonna go?

Hopefully all in the same direction.

[Smithy]

?

?

Hopefully all in the same direction.

You’ll see soon enough


Facebook in general is shocking at removing offensive material, I don’t *think* they are trying to normalise it (I hope not anyway) I just imagine it doesn’t meet whatever quotients are in place as offensive material. I’ve seen similarly shocking things in respect of racism/homophobia/sexism

[Nicky91]

yes Facebook recently had been making it's rules a lot stricter

probably to be on one line with other social media's (such as twitter) their policies/rules

[Niamh.]

You’ll see soon enough


Facebook in general is shocking at removing offensive material, I don’t *think* they are trying to normalise it (I hope not anyway) I just imagine it doesn’t meet whatever quotients are in place as offensive material. I’ve seen similarly shocking things in respect of racism/homophobia/sexism

Yeah but I mean it's a serious criminal offense to act on paedophilic impulses (?) surely that automatically makes it delete worthy

[The Slim Reaper]

There is actually a conversation to be had around this subject, but it's so offensive in it's nature that we're just not ready for it. We have no control over our sexuality and who we find attractive, so there are probably a high number of high functioning self-celibate paedophiles that are just unable to talk through their mental health with anyone because of the stigma that is rightly attached.

That said, facebook isn't the place for that discussion to take place, and the attitude they show in that response is just weird and non-committal, but FB's audience is increasingly lining up with 4chan's and QAnon extremists and misinformation.

[Ammi]

...weren’t those videos from Don’t **** With Cats../ Luka Magnotta, all posted on Facebook as well...weren’t all the group all Facebook Sleuths...

[Niamh.]

There is actually a conversation to be had around this subject, but it's so offensive in it's nature that we're just not ready for it. We have no control over our sexuality and who we find attractive, so there are probably a high number of high functioning self-celibate paedophiles that are just unable to talk through their mental health with anyone because of the stigma that is rightly attached.

That said, facebook isn't the place for that discussion to take place, and the attitude they show in that response is just weird and non-committal, but FB's audience is increasingly lining up with 4chan's and QAnon extremists and misinformation.

There's a lot more to it than just not being able to help who they are attracted to when it comes to paedophiles. It certainly isn't a natural attraction. A lot of paedophiles have been victims of abuse as children themselves, a lot of times the motivation behind abusing children, like with adult rape is more about power and control rather than sexual attraction. I think just making a statement like "you can't help who you are sexually attracted to" is just simplifying it too much. You can't have a "relationship" in this category of sexual orientation (if that's what you want to refer to it as) without destroying the other person's life.

[GoldHeart]

Wtf is wrong with Facebook:shocked::umm2: , and I use to think violence and anything sexual / porn was banned from FB.

But I have heard that even when people add innapropriate stuff it seems to take FB a while to remove.

And here they are advertising Paedophilia ! ,FB of all places where kids use the platform and families .

[bots]

the world is completely barmy

[user104658]

There is actually a conversation to be had around this subject, but it's so offensive in it's nature that we're just not ready for it. We have no control over our sexuality and who we find attractive, so there are probably a high number of high functioning self-celibate paedophiles that are just unable to talk through their mental health with anyone because of the stigma that is rightly attached.

That said, facebook isn't the place for that discussion to take place, and the attitude they show in that response is just weird and non-committal, but FB's audience is increasingly lining up with 4chan's and QAnon extremists and misinformation.

There's a line between a paedophile and a child molester and one that I think it's important to keep (but it often isn't, we use terms like "convicted paedophile", when of course paedophilia is not the crime, the action is the crime).

The reason it's important to keep the distinction and destigmatise is so that, hopefully, it should be possible for people with paedophillic urges to seek professional help BEFORE there's a risk of child molestation/assault occuring. In practical terms I think that the natural revulsion at the concept of paedophilia makes this pretty much impossible to achieve, but in safeguarding terms, it would be better if paedophiles could safely admit to being paedophiles in a context of seeking help.

The problem comes when you have groups trying to further an agenda of destigmatisation alongside arguments that it's actually acceptable to ACT upon - usually arguments that children are in fact capable of consent. Calling it "natural" is edging very close to that. It sounds like an attempt to turn it into an issue of "rights" and argue for decriminalisation of child molestation. I had one of these people creep onto my parenting forum when I ran one; I let him stick around for a day for educational puropses and because he was quite articulate (how often do you get to one-on-one with someone with a mindset like that?). He ended up banned, deleted and IP banned. It is an immensely ****ed up ideology and there's absolutely no question of it being "natural", and not mental illness.

They make VERY strong efforts to conflate the issue with other aspects of sexuality and sexual identity, rights of self expression, whilst dodging the philosophy of consent.

There's no conflation and the waters don't need to be "muddy" at all. Consenting adults can do whatever they want sexually so long as both parties consent. Children cannot independently consent TO ANYTHING. It's that simple. There is no overlap. They want to introduce that doubt - to suggest that denying the rights of pedophiles endangers other non-heteronormative rights. That side of things needs to be ignored completely and shut down fast.

I think there's a strong indication that this advert isn't saying "paedophiles should be able to access help" - which IS an important issue - but is in fact saying "paedophilic relationships are fine". Which is obviously dangerous and morally void.

[The Slim Reaper]

There's a lot more to it than just not being able to help who they are attracted to when it comes to paedophiles. It certainly isn't a natural attraction. A lot of paedophiles have been victims of abuse as children themselves, a lot of times the motivation behind abusing children, like with adult rape is more about power and control rather than sexual attraction. I think just making a statement like "you can't help who you are sexually attracted to" is just simplifying it too much. You can't have a "relationship" in this category of sexual orientation (if that's what you want to refer to it as) without destroying the other person's life.

That's why I said it was it was a difficult conversation to have that we weren't ready for. A lot of the points you raised there were points that were formerly charged against gay people.

Sexuality isn't a simple thing, and we know that people are attracted to lots of things that are weird/deviant to 99.9% of us. I think it's actually too simplistic to say that it isn't a genuine sexuality. Also, the point I made was about people living with this, and yet unable to get help because merely admitting these feelings exist could get them in trouble.

[Niamh.]

That's why I said it was it was a difficult conversation to have that we weren't ready for. A lot of the points you raised there were points that were formerly charged against gay people.

Sexuality isn't a simple thing, and we know that people are attracted to lots of things that are weird/deviant to 99.9% of us. I think it's actually too simplistic to say that it isn't a genuine sexuality. Also, the point I made was about people living with this, and yet unable to get help because merely admitting these feelings exist could get them in trouble.

What points??? gay people are consenting adults, children are not and will never be, in order to pursue this "sexual orientation" you have to abuse another person. Like TS has said children CAN NOT consent

[thesheriff443]

It’s crazy but middle aged men are marrying 8 year old in other countries with the families blessings.

The human race is a very primitive one.

[Cherie]

What points??? gay people are consenting adults, children are not and will never be, in order to pursue this "sexual orientation" you have to abuse another person. Like TS has said children CAN NOT consent

Precisely its about consent and not only consent but innocence, a 16 year old is going to know a lot more about the world than a 5 year old, can't believe that picture has been deemed appropriate

[The Slim Reaper]

What points??? gay people are consenting adults, children are not and will never be, in order to pursue this "sexual orientation" you have to abuse another person. Like TS has said children CAN NOT consent

Not once have I ever said children can consent. Sexual orientation exists whether it is acted upon or not, and I was pretty clear in talking about celibate paedophiles unable to access help, this is just setting up straw men to argue points that I didn't make.

[Niamh.]

Not once have I ever said children can consent. Sexual orientation exists whether it is acted upon or not, and I was pretty clear in talking about celibate paedophiles unable to access help, this is just setting up straw men to argue points that I didn't make.

I did also ask you what points you were talking about when you said similar points were made about gay people in the past

[Tom4784]

Paedophilia is not a sexuality, it's a fetish and one that is rooted in the abuse of children. It's like saying that beastiality and necrophillia are sexualities, they are not.

It really bothers me how peados are trying to co-opt the LGBT message to encourage acceptance of their abuses, I've read a lot of stories over the years of peadophiles trying to spread their messages at pride parades and events and **** and it just makes me want to vomit. Predators trying to normalise their behaviour by comparing it to same-sex relationships between consenting adults.

Again for the back seats, Peadophillia is not a sexuality.

[The Slim Reaper]

I did also ask you what points you were talking about when you said similar points were made about gay people in the past

Such as being abused as children.

[armand.kay]

That caption with that picture is so disgusting to me..

[armand.kay]

Paedophilia is not a sexuality, it's a fetish and one that is rooted in the abuse of children. It's like saying that beastiality and necrophillia are sexualities, they are not.

It really bothers me how peados are trying to co-opt the LGBT message to encourage acceptance of their abuses, I've read a lot of stories over the years of peadophiles trying to spread their messages at pride parades and events and **** and it just makes me want to vomit. Predators trying to normalise their behaviour by comparing it to same-sex relationships between consenting adults.

Again for the back seats, Peadophillia is not a sexuality.

this.

[Niamh.]

Such as being abused as children.

But that's actually true though? (about people who abuse children)

[Ammi]

...paedophilia is more a mental disorder...it’s not in any way a ‘natural sexual orientation’...and yeah, I do think that conversations need to be had with non offenders...but they would need to be had with qualified professionals who are very experienced with the specific disorder...and not had on any social media sites...

[Niamh.]

...paedophilia is more a mental disorder...it’s not in any way a ‘natural sexual orientation’...and yeah, I do think that conversations need to be had with non offenders...but they would need to be had with qualified professionals who are very experienced with the specific disorder...and not had on any social media sites...

And clearly that ad (or whatever it was) that Josy posted looked like it was trying to normalize paedophilia and have people accept it

[arista]

Click the attachment and post your opinion on this?

Fb have been removing posts and images about Mainstream media turning a blind eye to pedophiles yet they say things like this image dont need to be removed.

I find it absolutely horrific and this claim that it's a natural sexual orientation needs stopped ASAP, it's a pathetic attempt to desensitise the public to that behaviour in order to normalise pedophilia.

Theres is nothing normal about it, an adult attracted to another adult is natural, an adult attracted to a child is a ****ing abomination.

5009



Josy how do we know
this is not a remix photo - post?

[user104658]

That's why I said it was it was a difficult conversation to have that we weren't ready for. A lot of the points you raised there were points that were formerly charged against gay people.

I think the main issue is that people who are pro-legalisation will deliberately try, hard, to conflate it with other gender and sexuality issues in an attempt to be able to introduce a "gotcha!"-style logical argument for why it should be OK. Thankfully, I've never heard an argument for children in fact being capable of consent that doesn't fall apart completely under scrutiny from a developmental psychology perspective and it's a null argument. That's why it doesn't need conflating with debates surrounding adult sexuality at all; the only pertinent issue is consent.

Sexuality isn't a simple thing, and we know that people are attracted to lots of things that are weird/deviant to 99.9% of us. I think it's actually too simplistic to say that it isn't a genuine sexuality. Also, the point I made was about people living with this, and yet unable to get help because merely admitting these feelings exist could get them in trouble.

Like I said I don't think that issue is or ever will be solvable, legislation around it doesn't matter, people's personal revulsion and wariness of anyone admitting to paedophilic tendencies will mean that they are socially rejected. There's no way around it. What there should be is a robust, completely anonymous and non-judgemental mental health service where people who have NOT committed an offense can seek help if they think they need it without risk of wider exposure. Unfortunately, I doubt those are the people who pose the greatest risk.

[Ammi]

And clearly that ad (or whatever it was) that Josy posted looked like it was trying to normalize paedophilia and have people accept it

..for sure, I think it’s a very dangerous image to say is ‘acceptable’ ...but then as I said, so much is allowed as we saw with Don’t **** with Cats...it’s really quite staggering...I don’t personally think it’s that we’re not ready for a conversation as much as we shouldn’t be having that conversation that involves such a mental disorder that has often been acted in and abused children...

[user104658]

Paedophilia is not a sexuality, it's a fetish and one that is rooted in the abuse of children. It's like saying that beastiality and necrophillia are sexualities, they are not.

It really bothers me how peados are trying to co-opt the LGBT message to encourage acceptance of their abuses, I've read a lot of stories over the years of peadophiles trying to spread their messages at pride parades and events and **** and it just makes me want to vomit. Predators trying to normalise their behaviour by comparing it to same-sex relationships between consenting adults.

Again for the back seats, Peadophillia is not a sexuality.

I agree however most fetishes are benign and perfectly acceptable with other consenting adults so I don't think even calling it a fetish is helpful. Most fetishes pose no risk of harm.

It also opens up an absolutely massive can of worms in the trans debate because (duck and cover) - there is true trans rights stuff that concerns actual transexuals and gender identity, and then there is a side of trans that is heavily sexualised and a clear fetish. That's a topic that is absolutely RED hot, of course.

[Tom4784]

I agree however most fetishes are benign and perfectly acceptable with other consenting adults so I don't think even calling it a fetish is helpful. Most fetishes pose no risk of harm.

It also opens up an absolutely massive can of worms in the trans debate because (duck and cover) - there is true trans rights stuff that concerns actual transexuals and gender identity, and then there is a side of trans that is heavily sexualised and a clear fetish. That's a topic that is absolutely RED hot, of course.

Fetish was the only word I could think of to describe it. I don't think it's particularly a bad thing to describe it as a fetish since not all fetishes are benign. There's a lot of dark fetishes out there that simply are not acceptable. If there's a better word for it then I'd gladly call it that.

[Beso]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/paedophilia-sexual-orientation-straight-gay-criminal-psychologist-child-sex-abuse-a6965956.html


This.

[Captain.Remy]

As problematic as their issues with removing racism/homophobia/sexism content.

[GoldHeart]

Fetish is a terrible way to describe it , it's a sick perversion more like ! .

Despite the many weird fetishes out there it's still consenting adults or meant to be ,Whereas paedophilia IS NOT ! .

Regarding the darker disturbing "fetishes" , surely those aren't legal anyway .

[Jack_]

The word you’re looking for is paraphilia

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_paraphilias

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paraphilia

[Smithy]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/paedophilia-sexual-orientation-straight-gay-criminal-psychologist-child-sex-abuse-a6965956.html


This.

So you agree with the Facebook group that it’s an orientation?

[Oliver_W]

Paedophilia is not a sexuality, it's a fetish and one that is rooted in the abuse of children. It's like saying that beastiality and necrophillia are sexualities, they are not.

It really bothers me how peados are trying to co-opt the LGBT message to encourage acceptance of their abuses, I've read a lot of stories over the years of peadophiles trying to spread their messages at pride parades and events and **** and it just makes me want to vomit. Predators trying to normalise their behaviour by comparing it to same-sex relationships between consenting adults.

Again for the back seats, Peadophillia is not a sexuality.

Absolutely. Molesters should just be put down, in my opinion.

I hate when paedos try to attach themselves to LGBT movements. Any gays who even consider sharing a molecule of an olive branch when it comes to that need to have a word with themselves.

[Cal.]

Paedophilia is not a sexuality, it's a fetish and one that is rooted in the abuse of children. It's like saying that beastiality and necrophillia are sexualities, they are not.

It really bothers me how peados are trying to co-opt the LGBT message to encourage acceptance of their abuses, I've read a lot of stories over the years of peadophiles trying to spread their messages at pride parades and events and **** and it just makes me want to vomit. Predators trying to normalise their behaviour by comparing it to same-sex relationships between consenting adults.

Again for the back seats, Peadophillia is not a sexuality.

Agreed!

[user104658]

Fetish was the only word I could think of to describe it. I don't think it's particularly a bad thing to describe it as a fetish since not all fetishes are benign. There's a lot of dark fetishes out there that simply are not acceptable. If there's a better word for it then I'd gladly call it that.

Well again the only real issue is consent and legality, people argue when it comes to things like consensual snuff films... :umm2:... but it's pretty well established legally that no one can consent to being killed so even that's covered.

I've seen some pretty dark stuff where it's really beyond comprehension but... it's consenting adults involved and they're only causing harm to themselves so... each to their own I guess.

[Beso]

So you agree with the Facebook group that it’s an orientation?

I agree with the criminal psychologist.

[Glenn.]

I agree with the criminal psychologist.

So you agree that it’s an orientation then

[Beso]

So you agree that it’s an orientation then

Yes...but not in all cases.

[Jessica.]

I think those people are very ill and should be in some kind of institution to protect themselves and others from harm. People trying to normalise it are the most disgusting of all.

[Smithy]

Yes...but not in all cases.
So what cases is it and what cases isn’t it?

[Beso]

The sadists aren't as it's not the child they are drawn to, it's the desire to inflict pain and suffering that turns them on.

But in general I believe a paedo is drawn and attracted to children, just the same way men are to women, women to men etc etc.

Dont you think that's true?

[thesheriff443]

Just going to say, respect each other’s opinions in this thread.

This is a volatile subject, don’t want this turning into a witch hunt.

[user104658]

The sadists aren't as it's not the child they are drawn to, it's the desire to inflict pain and suffering that turns them on.

But in general I believe a paedo is drawn and attracted to children, just the same way men are to women, women to men etc etc.

Dont you think that's true?I think it's extremely rare for an element of it being the power dynamic (rather, the powerlessness) of the child so no, it's not like adult attraction, though it might feel like it to the person involved.

There are very few cases of child molestation where the perpetrator isn't a victim of past abuse or other traumatic incidences of powerlessness themselves. The involvement of trauma makes it very likely that it's a symptom of mental illness first and foremost.

[Rob!]

I feel like reports to Facebook must be automated rather than looked at by an actual person. Surely something in the photo doesn’t tick any boxes for removal in the (clearly crap) system? I can’t believe a paid human looked at that and thought “nah, you know what, that’s cool.”

[Niamh.]

I feel like reports to Facebook must be automated rather than looked at by an actual person. Surely something in the photo doesn’t tick any boxes for removal in the (clearly crap) system? I can’t believe a paid human looked at that and thought “nah, you know what, that’s cool.”

Yeah, you would hope that was the case anyway

[user104658]

I feel like reports to Facebook must be automated rather than looked at by an actual person. Surely something in the photo doesn’t tick any boxes for removal in the (clearly crap) system? I can’t believe a paid human looked at that and thought “nah, you know what, that’s cool.”The "first line" for reports will definitely be an AI algorithm... It had to be, they'd need to employ literally millions of moderators otherwise. There really should be a clearer way to escalate the complaint though.

[Glenn.]

Yes...but not in all cases.

Right

[The Slim Reaper]

Right

I think it's an orientation, but that doesn't mean it's in any way acceptable or it would excuse or legalise relationships between adults and children, which is the aim of that FB movement.

[Oliver_W]

Something that irks me is when people seem to differentiate between ephebiphillia and "proper" paedophillia. A child is a child, even if they are a teenager...

[The Slim Reaper]

I think it's extremely rare for an element of it being the power dynamic (rather, the powerlessness) of the child so no, it's not like adult attraction, though it might feel like it to the person involved.

There are very few cases of child molestation where the perpetrator isn't a victim of past abuse or other traumatic incidences of powerlessness themselves. The involvement of trauma makes it very likely that it's a symptom of mental illness first and foremost.

Have you got some data for this? The only stuff I've read said this is a misconception, and even the data can't be relied that heavily upon, because, for example, it might be in a paedophiles interests to say they were abused as a child if it could get them on to a rehabilitation program in prison.

[Tom4784]

Something that irks me is when people seem to differentiate between ephebiphillia and "proper" paedophillia. A child is a child, even if they are a teenager...

Oh god, I know what you mean, it's sickening. There's no degrees to it, a child is a child and it's abuse. Underage is underage.

[Jigs]

Paedophilia is not a sexuality, it's a fetish and one that is rooted in the abuse of children. It's like saying that beastiality and necrophillia are sexualities, they are not.

It really bothers me how peados are trying to co-opt the LGBT message to encourage acceptance of their abuses, I've read a lot of stories over the years of peadophiles trying to spread their messages at pride parades and events and **** and it just makes me want to vomit. Predators trying to normalise their behaviour by comparing it to same-sex relationships between consenting adults.

Again for the back seats, Peadophillia is not a sexuality.

Yeah, all of this.

Paedophilia isn't a sexuality. Men who are attracted to blonde women do not cite that as their "sexuality". It's a fetish.

Like bestiality and necrophilia, paedophilia will always be frowned upon because in order to have sexual intercourse without breaking any laws you need to do it with someone who is able to consent to it. Children, animals and corpses can't give that consent so it's never going to be a simple case of "let's abolish the stigma so we can live out our fantasies legally!".

[Jigs]

Saying that, I definitely feel like there should be more acceptance to the idea of rehabilitating paedophiles who wish to have therapy regarding the situation. We can't just throw them all in prison so any paedophile that hasn't committed a crime but wants to get rid of these thoughts should be encouraged to do so and feel safe during the process.

[Greg!]

That picture seems fake and created to provoke outrage. Why does it have the TED logo for example? What would they gain from defending paedophiles?

[thesheriff443]

I’ve heard it referred to as an illness.

[Beso]

Right

What's your opinion?

What point are you trying to make glenn?

[user104658]

Something that irks me is when people seem to differentiate between ephebiphillia and "proper" paedophillia. A child is a child, even if they are a teenager...

There -is- a psychological difference though. The issue of consent is obviously no different and people who abuse teenagers are no less morally abhorrent than those who abuse children, it's not so much a difference in moral severity, but there is a difference in motivation. Past the point of puberty is "biological adulthood" - so (for example) animals would consider that the point of distinction, and also humans pre-civilisation would have been sexually active in the early teens. As a (supposedly) civilized species we understand that a child is NOT an adult at that simple biological marker, up until the age of consent.

In psychological terms it's an important distinction though, because animals and cave-people would instinctually not be sexually interested in pre-pubescent children before the age of sexual maturity, with morals taken completely out of the equation. In fact, it's that distinction that makes paedophilia quite clearly "abnormal psychology".

It's easiest to illustrate if you go to the close-in-age teens range. A 19 year old who is attracted to a 15 year old is clearly not psychologically "a paedophile". However he has a MORAL imperative to leave said 15 year old the **** alone.

[user104658]

Just btw...

https://factcheck.afp.com/image-hoax-advert-began-circulating-messaging-boards-2018

This is a hoax. BUT these people do very much exist - like I said I had the (dis)pleasure of conversing at length with one a few years back.

[arista]

Just btw...

https://factcheck.afp.com/image-hoax-advert-began-circulating-messaging-boards-2018

This is a hoax. BUT these people do very much exist - like I said I had the (dis)pleasure of conversing at length with one a few years back.


Thats Why I asked Josy
as so many are against Facebook.


Good Find TS.



JOSY Edit your title please

Or Delete this thread please

[user104658]

Thats Why I asked Josy
as so many are against Facebook.


Good Find TS.



JOSY Edit your title please

Or Delete this thread please

Thank my wife - she came home from work and I was like "Did u see this thing from facebook?" and she went on her phone for 20 seconds and was like "Feke".

She's an internets expert.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I'd the same to the TL today about Wayfair USA

[Rob!]

I mean, fake or not, it does have the potential to create discussion on the topic. I have often wondered about this. The stereotypical image of a pedophile is the Glitters and Savilles of the world. A creepy, lecherous skidmark of humanity who deserves to burn in hell for all eternity (and yes, many are like that and yes they do deserve to burn.)
They can't ALL be like that though? Surely there are people that realise they have these feelings and are filled with nothing but disgust and fear for what they are?

[Amy Jade]

Facebook is the worst for reacting to reports. I remember a few months back there was a video of some kid dancing, he was from a video game group and looked about 12 - 13 and on his profile he had more content and much older men making gross comments.

A few people reported the worst of it and 3 of the people I talk to and myself got reports back saying it didn't violate the TOS.

[Greg!]

I mean, fake or not, it does have the potential to create discussion on the topic. I have often wondered about this. The stereotypical image of a pedophile is the Glitters and Savilles of the world. A creepy, lecherous skidmark of humanity who deserves to burn in hell for all eternity (and yes, many are like that and yes they do deserve to burn.)
They can't ALL be like that though? Surely there are people that realise they have these feelings and are filled with nothing but disgust and fear for what they are?

It’s not an orientation though. They should seek help.

[Crimson Dynamo]

You don't chose it but you can choose to act on it.....

[Josy]

Was just coming in to post that fb deleted my post as it was a hoax then noticed TS post Thats Why I asked Josy
as so many are against Facebook.


Good Find TS.



JOSY Edit your title please

Or Delete this thread pleaseNo I wont delete the thread Arista.

There are people and groups that push this agenda and there is clearly a good debate to be had as the thread clearly shows.

[Rob!]

It’s not an orientation though. They should seek help.

Oh I'm not denying that, I'm just sort of wondering about the psychology behind it. IS it 100% evil fetish or are there people out there who know what they are and want to change it? Idk. I feel like there isn't a huge amount of answers on that side and frankly I don't want to litter my google search history with questions like "How do I know I'm a nonce" :joker:

[Smithy]

I mean, fake or not, it does have the potential to create discussion on the topic. I have often wondered about this. The stereotypical image of a pedophile is the Glitters and Savilles of the world. A creepy, lecherous skidmark of humanity who deserves to burn in hell for all eternity (and yes, many are like that and yes they do deserve to burn.)
They can't ALL be like that though? Surely there are people that realise they have these feelings and are filled with nothing but disgust and fear for what they are?

There was an interesting documentary C4 did about this a few years ago called The Paedophile Next Door (I think it’s on Netflix now - if not probably all 4) where they interviewed a guy who says he’s never been able to help that’s he’s been attracted to children, that he’s never acted on it and never will but yeah it was an interesting watch

[GoldHeart]

There was an interesting documentary C4 did about this a few years ago called The Paedophile Next Door (I think it’s on Netflix now - if not probably all 4) where they interviewed a guy who says he’s never been able to help that’s he’s been attracted to children, that he’s never acted on it and never will but yeah it was an interesting watch

I don't think I could watch it , but I remember hearing about it .

[Marsh.]

"How do I know I'm a nonce" :joker:

https://i.imgur.com/J6ahedi.png

[Tom4784]

I remember a topic on here a few years back about the idea of peadophiles that are sickened by their own perversion, I think there was a few articles within it linked to stories of peadophiles who were trying everything to rid themselves of their urges.

It's an unpleasant topic to discuss through and through In some respects I could have sympathy for the ones who never hurt anyone but I just can't have any empathy for them regardless. It's a difficult subject to talk and think about.

[The Slim Reaper]

There was an interesting documentary C4 did about this a few years ago called The Paedophile Next Door (I think it’s on Netflix now - if not probably all 4) where they interviewed a guy who says he’s never been able to help that’s he’s been attracted to children, that he’s never acted on it and never will but yeah it was an interesting watch

I think I saw that. Was it something like "the virtuous paedophile?"

[Smithy]

I think I saw that. Was it something like "the virtuous paedophile?"

No it was The Paedophile Next Door

ClRxuu-Pd4Y

This is the full thing

[Ammi]

...one person’s story for Rob or anyone who may find it interesting...and not too long a read...


It’s a long time since I’ve described myself as a paedophile.
Paedophilia is a disorder, a deeply distressing sexual orientation.
For me, it's triggered by traumatic experiences in childhood.
I’m in my sixties now, but when I was a young boy my mother used to sit me on her lap while she dried me off after my bath, and she would fondle my genitals.
Her behaviour never felt sexual but, looking back, of course it was. I can’t remember exactly how long that went on but it was a long time. By the time it was over, I was self-harming.
I think my attraction to young boys came from what my mother did to me.
I first acknowledged my abnormality around the age of 15. That was when I first realised that I wasn’t changing mentally in the same way that other boys were changing.
They were taking an interest in women or, in one or two cases, in men. But I never did. I remained fixated on pre-adolescent boys, which was the age at which I had been sexually interfered with.
It was horrible.

I never even contemplated abusing a child. It was a million miles away from what I wanted to be - which was a normal adult man.
I hoped that as I grew older I’d grow into an adult sexual orientation, but it was like my development had stalled.
It was completely terrifying, and I felt revolted with myself.
I realised that it was likely that I would lead a very lonely life. I was scared that if people found out about my terrible thoughts it could lead to violence, physical attacks.
I went to university, where I had a group of friends and spent several years battling against the reality of my mental state. I had almost no sexual experience at that time.
I was eventually forced to face the fact that I wasn’t changing when I was outed by a housemate.
I guess he had noticed that if we started talking about children, I would change the subject. If we walked down the street and saw a family with children I would get uncomfortable.

I was sitting in the front room. All my mates were cooking the evening meal and I don’t think they realised I’d come downstairs. They were chatting away and I heard my friend say something like: “I think Jack’s interested in young boys.”
I put my coat on and quietly walked out of the house.
Walking out of that front door was like leaving one world and entering another.
I went to the university GP the next day. I said, “I’m a paedophile. Can this be cured?”
The conventional view of paedophilia is that it’s an incurable condition. But this doctor laughed - he laughed! And he said, “Of course it’s curable.”
It was an absolutely huge relief. The doctor didn’t challenge my identification with paedophilia, he just accepted it and said: “No problem, we’ll sort it.”

I got a referral letter to the Portman Clinic, which – amongst other services - offers specialist treatment for people with problematic sexual behaviours.
I went to London for my assessment a few weeks later. It was a midsummer’s day in 1972 and I remember walking on Hampstead Heath, watching the trees, listening to the birds, and thinking: “I’m going into a new life.”
The Portman Clinic’s treatments are long-term. I was seen by them for several years.
You talk freely and, over time, they construct a picture of your subconscious drivers.
After treatment, I was a very different person. I even developed a sexual interest in women, which felt extraordinarily liberating.
But there was a lot about me that was shy, inexperienced and naïve.
In a sense, I had to experience my adolescence years after all my peers. I'd had minimal sexual experience, all my friendships had been warped by my self-hatred and I had a huge lack of self-esteem.
I’m now in a good relationship, and have been for a long time with a woman whom I love.
She has always known about my former orientation, which will always be something I carry with me. No one else knows, not even my family.
I’ve since done things that I’m proud of in my life. They’re not huge achievements, but they’re achievements nonetheless. If I’ve got one regret, it’s that I’m only now doing this kind of advocacy work for paedophiles.
I work with a charity called StopSO, a specialist treatment organisation for the prevention of sexual offending. It’s a UK-wide organisation offering therapy to anyone who feels at risk of committing a sexual offence.

Paedophilia is not understood.
People think paedophilia is synonymous with child sexual abuse. But I would never have abused a child.
Most paedophiles have two warring drives within them: the urge to offend, and the urge to be normal. Most paedophiles are desperate for those desires to go away.
There are online communities where non-offending paedophiles can support each other.
I once discovered a woman online who was exactly like me. She was attracted to infants of the age at which she had been abuse. She also received therapy to treat her paedophilia.
But the demonisation of paedophiles makes it more difficult for non-offending young people who are worried about developing this sexual orientation to seek help.
I think every town in the country should have a clinic like the Portman. But we’re far from that. NHS budgets have been cut, not just in this particular area, in the whole field of psychiatric and mental health care.
We should be identifying sexually damaged young people and potential abusers, and treating them as early as we can. That’s a key way to break the cycle of sexual abuse.
Instead, if you’re a paedophile who has not offended, but you want help, it is very rare to get treatment on the NHS. Most of the time, you'll only get help after you've offended and already hurt someone.
I was lucky. Because of the help I got, I’ve been able to live a normal adult life. I’ve been able to address my issues in ways that others cannot.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcthree/article/3216b48d-3195-4f67-8149-54586689ae3c

[Josy]

There was an interesting documentary C4 did about this a few years ago called The Paedophile Next Door (I think it’s on Netflix now - if not probably all 4) where they interviewed a guy who says he’s never been able to help that’s he’s been attracted to children, that he’s never acted on it and never will but yeah it was an interesting watchI can remember this documentary, I couldn't watch the entire thing I had to switch off.

[Ammi]

...actually it is quite a long read..:laugh:.../..but interesting...

[Josy]

I dont want to quote that post due to the length but if it's an illness that he could be 'cured' from then how can he also claim it's a sexual orientation?

Sexual orientation is natural imo it's not something that can be changed or 'cured'

[Josy]

And also, sexual orientation refers to the gender that a person is attracted to whereas paedophiles are attracted to children

[Smithy]

Sexual orientation is natural imo it's not something that can be changed or 'cured'

@ conversion camp enthusiasts

[Josy]

@ conversion camp enthusiastsYeah I was thinking that that's what he was basically describing his treatment was.

Bull**** imo

[user104658]

And also, sexual orientation refers to the gender that a person is attracted to whereas paedophiles are attracted to children

Depends if you're talking common usage or literal usage. In common usage, yes, it's talking about sexuality. If we're talking literal, it would mean literally any form of sexual desire (as "orientation" is a very broad term that could mean anything).

I have recently argued on here that common usage is always the more linguistically correct usage, though... so yes if I was the editor for this article I'd probably have recommended rewording that.

Regarding conversion therapy, that's where it becomes a very hot topic, because obviously people are going to want to brand it "impossible" to address for fear of adding fuel to the fire of people who advocate conversion therapy for perfectly normal sexualities.

It's not the same thing, though. As he's pointed out, paedophilia is usually a result of trauma and trauma IS very treatable - thus, treating childhood trauma could (almost as a side effect) "cure" paedophilia. I think it is important to frame it as a trauma-related mental health problem though, as it pretty much always is, rather than an orientation. He actually does DESCRIBE it as a trauma-related problem, so it's a strange choice of words for naming it.

I have read before that anonymous surveys have shown that (scarily, I suppose) the vast majority of paedophiles DON'T ever commit an offense or even tell anyone. The abnormal feelings and the ability to actively harm someone are two completely separate things.

[Rob!]

Thanks for that Ammi - yeah that's exactly the sort of thing I meant.
I think the temptation is to umbrella all pedophiles into the Saville stereotype because sexual attraction to children is abhorrent to us and so it makes our minds feel better to associate it with evil.
I mean, I feel like I'm sounding like I'm defending the behaviour of acting upon it, of course I am most definitely not and I hope that's clear but I feel the simple stamp of "EVIL MONSTER" that is automatically assigned to the topic without wanting to understand any other motives or reasoning behind the thinking of everyone in that group doesn't help the people that genuinely want to change and those people MUST exist.

[Marsh.]

I have read before that anonymous surveys have shown that (scarily, I suppose) the vast majority of paedophiles DON'T ever commit an offense or even tell anyone. The abnormal feelings and the ability to actively harm someone are two completely separate things.

Yeah, true. I suppose it's like the difference between having feelings of pure anger and being a violent person. Experiencing the former doesn't automatically make you a person prone to do the latter.

[Firewire]

https://i.imgur.com/J6ahedi.png

Screaming

[Mystic Mock]

Pedophilia is not a sexual orientation imo, Pedophiles who haven't acted on their urges need psychological help, not instead having someone on Facebook talking about it like it's okay to be a Pedophile.

[Mystic Mock]

I dont want to quote that post due to the length but if it's an illness that he could be 'cured' from then how can he also claim it's a sexual orientation?

Sexual orientation is natural imo it's not something that can be changed or 'cured'

This.

If anything his case just proves that it's a mental health issue.

[thesheriff443]

People always seem to talk about this subject in the same way.

For some peodophiles, there are countries that they can go to and fulfill their sickest desires because the children’s parents actually prostatue their kids.

So sleeping with kids is the normal thing to do.

[Ammi]

...I’m not sure that even with an anonymous survey, how much it could be trusted in any accuracy because saying...’I have never..’...obviously allows for some kind of possible understanding that ‘I have acted on...’...would never allow for...

...the therapy used is something called psychoanalytic psychotherapy, I don’t know exactly what that would be and whether/how it would compare to conversion therapy...


...I believe it to be a mental disorder, I said earlier and wouldn’t describe it as a sexual orientation...abuse of a child is often by someone who themselves have been abused but it isn’t always and I don’t know whether it’s mostly...it’s also very much power and obviously perversion...there would never surely be a ‘cure’ as such for a mental disorder, so much as it would be more to help control it/to prevent that acting on it...and I guess that’s possible to have success for an entire lifetime....

[Kizzy]

Reading the article Ammi posted which was really interesting I was surprised it's referred to as a sexual orientation, it isn't..well not in his case anyway it was the result of his own abuse, so a deviance. His sexual urges were deviated due to childhood trauma.
I can understand and sympathise with that due to his explanation.
I wonder how the extreme side of peadophilia rationalise their sexual urges? How can it be that some are disgusted with it and others act on it.
Is it like sociopathy rather than sexuality?

It's a really uncomfortable subject being so taboo, I'm really conflicted part of me thinks that help is good, and yet worried as Josy said of it becoming normalised :/

[user104658]

I wonder how the extreme side of peadophilia rationalise their sexual urges? How can it be that some are disgusted with it and others act on it.
Is it like sociopathy rather than sexuality?

It's a really uncomfortable subject being so taboo, I'm really conflicted part of me thinks that help is good, and yet worried as Josy said of it becoming normalised :/

I think the self-control aspect and people actually acting on it is probably a separate thing. In people with totally normal sexual urges it's not inevitable that someone who is sexually repressed will act on it, but a small number do. The vast majority of adult men who can't find another adult to have consensual sex with don't automatically decide to rape someone instead... They have the desire to have a sexual relationship with a woman but they're not going to harm someone to get it. But then there are those who do. It definitely must be partly an empathy issue, but I doubt rapists are generally sociopaths, which is uncomfortable in itself. When it comes to active child molesters it can be even more messed up because with "grooming" they can even convince themself that the child was a willing/consenting participant, which is really what a lot of these groups are about - trying to convince people that the kids are OK with it, because they actually believe it. Grim. It's compounded by the fact that a "groomed" child often seems totally fine while the abuse is going on and really doesn't understand what it is. Then they hit their teens and early adulthood when they can understand that they were abused, they realise what happened to them, and their mental health collapses. Like an abuse time-bomb. So if the child doesn't seem traumatised, or even upset, at the time... The child molester can convince himself that what he's doing isn't so bad.

[arista]

[Paedophile Mark Sutherland loses human rights court challenge]

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/16EEB/production/_112613939_pjimage-2.jpg

[Mark Sutherland's appeal was unanimously rejected by Scotland's
Supreme Court judges]


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-53416056

[Niamh.]

[Paedophile Mark Sutherland loses human rights court challenge]

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/16EEB/production/_112613939_pjimage-2.jpg

[Mark Sutherland's appeal was unanimously rejected by Scotland's
Supreme Court judges]


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-53416056

good

[Livia]

It must be awful to realise that you're sexually attracted to children. However, once they attempt to act on that urge I have no sympathy at all and would like to see them taken out of society forever.

[Tom4784]

[Paedophile Mark Sutherland loses human rights court challenge]

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/16EEB/production/_112613939_pjimage-2.jpg

[Mark Sutherland's appeal was unanimously rejected by Scotland's
Supreme Court judges]


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-53416056

I get so conflicted over this subject in particular, vigilantism should be left to films and comic books and I do think that most groups probably do more harm then good but I can't really oppose people who expose this sort of thing. I know there's some organisations that do things the right way but I do think that, before long, there'll be incidents of stings gone wrong and I think people could get hurt.

I think the practice of basically anyone becoming a hunter should be discouraged but I can't oppose the more organised groups that do things by the book and get results.

[Niamh.]

I get so conflicted over this subject in particular, vigilantism should be left to films and comic books and I do think that most groups probably do more harm then good but I can't really oppose people who expose this sort of thing. I know there's some organisations that do things the right way but I do think that, before long, there'll be incidents of stings gone wrong and I think people could get hurt.

I think the practice of basically anyone becoming a hunter should be discouraged but I can't oppose the more organised groups that do things by the book and get results.

Yeah and a person who is such a danger to children "getting off" on a technicality would be despicable

[Tom4784]

Yeah and a person who is such a danger to children "getting off" on a technicality would be despicable

Yeah, when it's poorly done, a predator can get a mistrial. It's a complex issue, I don't think it should be as widespread a practice as it is but I can't fault the ones that are basically professionals at it. I think it's an issue I'm very much a hypocrite in since I oppose vigilantism but I can't bring myself to condemn hunters completely. It's a difficult one.

[user104658]

I get so conflicted over this subject in particular, vigilantism should be left to films and comic books and I do think that most groups probably do more harm then good but I can't really oppose people who expose this sort of thing. I know there's some organisations that do things the right way but I do think that, before long, there'll be incidents of stings gone wrong and I think people could get hurt.



I think the practice of basically anyone becoming a hunter should be discouraged but I can't oppose the more organised groups that do things by the book and get results.I know of a group that was shut down (well, shut themselves down) because it did indeed go wrong. They posed as a 15 year old girl online, met up with what they believed to be an adult posing as a 16 year old boy, cornered and confronted him, live-streamed the whole thing to face book...

... Problem was, it actually was a 16 year old boy who happened to be tall and have a lot of facial hair for his age.

And who came from a rather ... Erm... Lively? family. Who tracked down the paedophile hunters and smashed in all of their windows and threatened to kill them.

I understand the motivations of these groups but I think it serves as an example of why these things should be left to professionals. At absolute most, they should just gather information online and hand it over to the police. The physical (and especially the live-streamed) confrontations are just too prone to errors being made.

[Tom4784]

I know of a group that was shut down (well, shut themselves down) because it did indeed go wrong. They posed as a 15 year old girl online, met up with what they believed to be an adult posing as a 16 year old boy, cornered and confronted him, live-streamed the whole thing to face book...

... Problem was, it actually was a 16 year old boy who happened to be tall and have a lot of facial hair for his age.

And who came from a rather ... Erm... Lively? family. Who tracked down the paedophile hunters and smashed in all of their windows and threatened to kill them.

I understand the motivations of these groups but I think it serves as an example of why these things should be left to professionals. At absolute most, they should just gather information online and hand it over to the police. The physical (and especially the live-streamed) confrontations are just too prone to errors being made.

Yeah, I despise the live streaming aspect since it becomes more about the clout rather than doing good. It basically becomes no different to Tommy Robinson trying to livestream those child abuse trials, it becomes about self promotion rather than bringing predators to justice.

I'm sure I've read about a few groups who don't do that sort of thing though, they gather evidence and turn it in and that's it and I admire those people since they are doing good for the sake of doing good. If it weren't for people like that, I'd oppose hunter groups but while you've got groups that handle things right and never make it about themselves, it's not a practice I can oppose although it often leaves me in a quandary about vigilantism since I oppose it otherwise.

[Oliver_W]

I will admit the predator catching streams can be addictive viewing :joker: the American ones anyroad.

But even then it feels like they're making it for the spectacle rather than justice. otherwise it'd just show the chat logs along with evidence as to who the person is.

[user104658]

I will admit the predator catching streams can be addictive viewing :joker: the American ones anyroad.



But even then it feels like they're making it for the spectacle rather than justice. otherwise it'd just show the chat logs along with evidence as to who the person is.In America there's the added complication of aspects of their legal system, a good lawyer in most states will crumble the case because of the public streaming, entrapment issues, etc.

Even worse is when someone was already being investigated but the whole thing falls apart because of public involvement.

[GoldHeart]

I will admit the predator catching streams can be addictive viewing :joker: the American ones anyroad.

But even then it feels like they're making it for the spectacle rather than justice. otherwise it'd just show the chat logs along with evidence as to who the person is.

Don't get me started :facepalm: , notice how everyone on YouTube now thinks they're a trained predator catcher vigilante hunter . Everyone wants to be Chris Hanson now .

This is dangerous and not to be made a spectacle of , and some of the videos are fake 100% with actors which I find distasteful and pointless.

But the ones that are real just make for uncomfortable viewing either way with the risks clearly showing.

[Kizzy]

I think the self-control aspect and people actually acting on it is probably a separate thing. In people with totally normal sexual urges it's not inevitable that someone who is sexually repressed will act on it, but a small number do. The vast majority of adult men who can't find another adult to have consensual sex with don't automatically decide to rape someone instead... They have the desire to have a sexual relationship with a woman but they're not going to harm someone to get it. But then there are those who do. It definitely must be partly an empathy issue, but I doubt rapists are generally sociopaths, which is uncomfortable in itself. When it comes to active child molesters it can be even more messed up because with "grooming" they can even convince themself that the child was a willing/consenting participant, which is really what a lot of these groups are about - trying to convince people that the kids are OK with it, because they actually believe it. Grim. It's compounded by the fact that a "groomed" child often seems totally fine while the abuse is going on and really doesn't understand what it is. Then they hit their teens and early adulthood when they can understand that they were abused, they realise what happened to them, and their mental health collapses. Like an abuse time-bomb. So if the child doesn't seem traumatised, or even upset, at the time... The child molester can convince himself that what he's doing isn't so bad.

I didn't suggest it was inevitable the repressed would act on urges. Rapists are very different, they are all about hate, power and control the very epitome of sociopathy. But that's not the same as imagining a child reciprocates feelings for you, that is a dangerous delusion no matter which way you look at it

[Oliver_W]

Oh god I bet £1000 I know where this thread is gonna go

What was it you were expecting, and did it happen?

[user104658]

What was it you were expecting, and did it happen?

I think the most important question is, who was the bet with, and will it be honoured?