London bobby kneeling on a black neck

[The Slim Reaper]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Video of a London police officer with his knee on the neck of a black man. Police now self-referred to the IOPC. <a href="https://t.co/p3W0zNoZRe">https://t.co/p3W0zNoZRe</a></p>&mdash; Krishnan Guru-Murthy (@krishgm) <a href="https://twitter.com/krishgm/status/1284128600275509248?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 17, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Beso]

Again the video taker is making the incident ten times worse simply by filming.

[The Slim Reaper]

Again the video taker is making the incident ten times worse simply by filming.

I'm sure if you asked the guy being arrested, he's thankful it's being filmed. He shouldn't be kneeling on his neck.

[thesheriff443]

He is not even kneeling on his neck he is hold his head down with his hand.

[UserSince2005]

His knee was on his head not his neck.
Potato shaped people tend not to have necks.

Anyway these police need to be a lot more careful.
Restraining people like that is not a good look.
Better training?

[Oliver_W]

tbh cops should have bodycams which are impossible for them to manually turn off, would be much easier to hold them to account, and the footage would be more reliable than an out of context phone clip.

[thesheriff443]

Both police officers doing a great job.

We saw a few weeks ago when they get surrounded while trying to detain a suspect.

[Liam-]

It’s just American cops though, we don’t have this problem, have we been lied to again?

[Swan]

It’s just American cops though, we don’t have this problem, have we been lied to again?

It's not comparable.

[The Slim Reaper]

He is not even kneeling on his neck he is hold his head down with his hand.

You can see his leg is pushed into his shoulder, meaning he's on his neck, not his head, his head starts a bit higher up.

[The Slim Reaper]

Both police officers doing a great job.

We saw a few weeks ago when they get surrounded while trying to detain a suspect.

What does being surrounded have to do with anything. If a group surrounded me as I do my work, I wouldn't start kneeling on one of their necks. They are public servants.

[Liam-]

It's not comparable.

Is it not?

[thesheriff443]

What does being surrounded have to do with anything. If a group surrounded me as I do my work, I wouldn't start kneeling on one of their necks. They are public servants.

He was resisting arrest and he was not on he’s neck get a pair of glasses , we have seen police attacked while doing their job.

[rusticgal]

He certainly looked like he was kneeling on his head at the beginning but then he got off him. Maybe the police are trained to do this when restraining people..but in light of what happened maybe they should refrain from doing it.
What was also despicable was the grief those members of the public were giving the police...

[Glenn.]

He is not even kneeling on his neck he is hold his head down with his hand.

He was resisting arrest and he was not on he’s neck get a pair of glasses , we have seen police attacked while doing their job.

His knee is very clearly on his neck. Are you blind?

[Swan]

Is it not?

You honestly think the Police brutality in the US is comparable to that in the UK?

[user104658]

For a balanced look here;

He is clearly not kneeling on his neck other than for less than a second at one point - although I think he might have moved away from his neck at that point because someone pointed out the obvious implications.

I do think they are being otherwise a bit heavy-handed, yes, and they're doing a crap job of de-escalating.

[Glenn.]

For a balanced look here;

He is clearly not kneeling on his neck other than for less than a second at one point - although I think he might have moved away from his neck at that point because someone pointed out the obvious implications.

I do think they are being otherwise a bit heavy-handed, yes, and they're doing a crap job of de-escalating.

More like 20 seconds

[Livia]

People will see what they want to see. It's why trial by jury is flawed... not that I have a better suggestion.

[Nicky91]

disgusting cops :yuk:

[user104658]

More like 20 secondsFor most of it he's kneeling on his head, unless he has an ear on his neck. Don't get me wrong - I'm not advocating for kneeling on anyone's HEAD either and as I said they're being heavy-handed regardless. I do think accuracy is important though, you can't make a firm argument when it's easily refutable with actual visual evidence. His knee is on the side of his head and jaw - that's bad enough - we don't have to pretend it's on his neck to "make it worse" because then people can just say "Umm no it's not" and move on. It feels like clickbait. You could just say, "cops kneel on black man's head" - it's shocking enough.

[The Slim Reaper]

For most of it he's kneeling on his head, unless he has an ear on his neck. Don't get me wrong - I'm not advocating for kneeling on anyone's HEAD either and as I said they're being heavy-handed regardless. I do think accuracy is important though, you can't make a firm argument when it's easily refutable with actual visual evidence. His knee is on the side of his head and jaw - that's bad enough - we don't have to pretend it's on his neck to "make it worse" because then people can just say "Umm no it's not" and move on. It feels like clickbait. You could just say, "cops kneel on black man's head" - it's shocking enough.

When he's on his neck, it's a bit difficult to say he's on his head. Clickbait? Sure.

[rusticgal]

disgusting cops :yuk:


Really...why are they disgusting?

[rusticgal]

His knee is very clearly on his neck. Are you blind?


Maybe you should watch it again...look where his teeth are in relation to the officers knee...he would be kneeling on his ear/head...not neck.

[Liam-]

Really...why are they disgusting?

Because they’re holding a handcuffed man down and kneeling on his head/neck, it’s not great is it?

[Beso]

What does the guys colour have to do with it anyway.

[Glenn.]

Maybe you should watch it again...look where his teeth are in relation to the officers knee...he would be kneeling on his ear/head...not neck.

Because that’s so much better?

[The Slim Reaper]

His leg is pushed down into his shoulders for a start, that's where the neck starts, you can see it most clearly as he's trying to maneuver slowly off after being called out.

[user104658]

His leg is pushed down into his shoulders for a start, that's where the neck starts, you can see it most clearly as he's trying to maneuver slowly off after being called out.He's mostly on his head (again, bad enough) and yes as I said I think he only moves away from his neck after going there because someone calls him out. However... When he's on his neck, it's a bit difficult to say he's on his head. Clickbait? Sure.... Referring specifically to a cop kneeling on a black man's neck is an attempt to evoke the George Floyd murder in the mind of the reader and is thus clickbait. We're not playing faux-dummies today :nono:. Yes is is another example of heavy-handed policing but I feel like attempting to forge a direct cognitive link there is a bit distasteful.

[The Slim Reaper]

He's mostly on his head (again, bad enough) and yes as I said I think he only moves away from his neck after going there because someone calls him out. However... ... Referring specifically to a cop kneeling on a black man's neck is an attempt to evoke the George Floyd murder in the mind of the reader and is thus clickbait. We're not playing faux-dummies today :nono:. Yes is is another example of heavy-handed policing but I feel like attempting to forge a direct cognitive link there is a bit distasteful.

I see him on his neck, nothing else. Of course he's on his head too, because of the width of a bent leg. But the contact starts on his neck, just above the shoulder.

There is a direct link because he's on his neck. That's why I wrote it in that way. If I thought he was on his head, then that's what I'd have written. We disagree on the issues in this matter, but please don't tell me what my intentions are when it comes to my posts.

[arista]

One officer suspended
the 2nd officer on restricted duties


On ITV1HD London news now

[Swan]

What did the guy do? Or was suspected of doing.

[Marsh.]

Again the video taker is making the incident ten times worse simply by filming.

Yes, much more civilised to ignore police brutality and go about your day.

[Liam-]

‘You alright?’
‘Yeah, my necks fine no worries, the bastard filming is a prick though’

[arista]

What did the guy do? Or was suspected of doing.



The Police have yet to say.

[Swan]

The Police have yet to say.

Quite interested to learn more about this story before i give my opinion.

[thesheriff443]

The Police have yet to say.

I think they say in the video he is accused of attacking someone

[The Slim Reaper]

Quite interested to learn more about this story before i give my opinion.

Let's say he was a burglar, then what? Either way, he won't have been found guilty of anything upon being arrested.

[Swan]

Let's say he was a burglar, then what? Either way, he won't have been found guilty of anything upon being arrested.

If he was threatening physical violence, and/or carrying a weapon then tougher restraint is necessary.

[Marsh.]

If he was threatening physical violence, and/or carrying a weapon then tougher restraint is necessary.

He was handcuffed?

[Swan]

He was handcuffed?

Doesn't mean he wasn't capable of violence. He could have still seriously harmed someone, especially being that his hands where cuffed at the front of his body, and not behind his back.

BBC News reporting he was arrested for fighting, and carrying an offensive weapon.

Yes it was in bad taste detaining him in such a manner, but the threat was obviously very real.

[Liam-]

An offensive weapon could be a plank of wood that he didn’t have anymore, he was handcuffed and on the floor, no need whatsoever to put pressure on his head/neck

[bots]

the policeman has been suspended

[Marsh.]

Doesn't mean he wasn't capable of violence. He could have still seriously harmed someone, especially being that his hands where cuffed at the front of his body, and not behind his back.

And there's no other way for a trained police officer to subdue/restrain an unarmed man without kneeling on his head?

We can talk at length about what this man could have been capable of, but at the end of the day the police officer wasn't behaving appropriately at all.

[Swan]

And there's no other way for a trained police officer to subdue/restrain an unarmed man without kneeling on his head?

Unarmed? The way he was cuffed wouldn't have stopped him pulling a knife out of his pocket.

And yes there probably was, like i said it was in bad taste.

[user104658]

To play devil's advocate again (everyone's fav) it can be appropriate to restrain the head even while someone is handcuffed on the ground if there's a risk of them causing themselves injury whilst thrashing or struggling. That should be a hand as at the end of the video though, not full body weight from a leg. Tbh I don't think new recruits get enough restraint training (for example they get less than mental health professionals who can be dealing with some very aggressive and out of control individuals) and then they end up copying other officers who already have bad/dangerous habits and thinking it's "the right way" to do it.

Part of why I think "defund the police" might be better as "redistribute police funding" - with a lot more focus and time on both initial and ongoing training.

[Marsh.]

Unarmed? The way he was cuffed wouldn't have stopped him pulling a knife out of his pocket.

Well, I assume the officers, when arresting someone, confiscate their weapon or at the very least search them.

[rusticgal]

Because that’s so much better?



Didn’t say it was :shrug:....just saying it appears to be the side of his head and not his neck :nono:

[user104658]

Well, I assume the officers, when arresting someone, confiscate their weapon or at the very least search them.You can't really check pockets while someone is struggling because of the risk of needles.

I personally don't think he could effectively grab or use a weapon with the way he's cuffed, though. But I'm not an expert at cuffing. Just an enthusiast.

[Swan]

Well, I assume the officers, when arresting someone, confiscate their weapon or at the very least search them.

It's viable they handcuffed him first, then searched him after he was restrained. He wasn't exactly cooperating with them in the video.

He wasn't arrested for nicking a can of coke, he was arrested (and resisting arrest) for physical violence, and carry an offensive weapon. Restraint was necessary, the way the policeman went about it was in poor taste though, as previously stated.

[Marsh.]

You can't really check pockets while someone is struggling because of the risk of needles.

I personally don't think he could effectively grab or use a weapon with the way he's cuffed, though. But I'm not an expert at cuffing. Just an enthusiast.

:joker:

[arista]

Ch4HD news said the Black fella was in a fight.

[Beso]

Do they still have a weeks work thing for 4thbyears at school?

They need to be making police officer an option.

Those poor coppers, when you watch the video from the house, being surrounded by an ever growing crowd with a wrestling man on his back and everyone's in a rage cause his knee slipped to his kneck for a gnats baw length of time.

Aye..have a go yourselves...urghhh this place..

Really.

[Beso]

Ch4HD news said the Black fella was in a fight.

BBC said he knelt on his kneck but they then blurred that out on the video..:smug:


Dodgy as usual.

[Marsh.]

Do they still have a weeks work thing for 4thbyears at school?

They need to be making police officer an option.

Those poor coppers, when you watch the video from the house, being surrounded by an ever growing crowd with a wrestling man on his back and everyone's in a rage cause his knee slipped to his kneck for a gnats baw length of time.

Aye..have a go yourselves...urghhh this place..

Really.

Aye...make excuses for inappropriate behaviour rather than condemning it.

That's why things never change and you get people in public service positions becoming lazy and complacent.

[Beso]

Aye...make excuses for inappropriate behaviour rather than condemning it.

That's why things never change and you get people in public service positions becoming lazy and complacent.

You wouldn't bat an eyelid if that bloke was white..

You would either say nothing, or condemn him for being a drunken yob out for a fight in a friday night.

[Glenn.]

You wouldn't bat an eyelid if that bloke was white..

You would either say nothing, or condemn him for being a drunken yob out for a fight in a friday night.

A white neck is still a neck. Something that shouldn’t be leant on by power mad coppers.

It’s shocking that you have this stance. Really shocking.

[Beso]

A white neck is still a neck. Something that shouldn’t be leant on by power mad coppers.

It’s shocking that you have this stance. Really shocking.

What is shocking is the fact you believe his kneck was leant on in the way george Floyd's was.

And what is my stance, please explain :shrug:

[Crimson Dynamo]

:facepalm:

[GiRTh]

:laugh2:

We started with 'He's not on his neck' then we went to 'but, what did he do' now its 'even if he's handcuffed , he can still...'. And thats just in the first two pages. I wont bother reading any more. Lets talk about everything except the heavy handed tactics eh? :bored:

[Swan]

:laugh2:

We started with 'He's not on his neck' then we went to 'but, what did he do' now its 'even if he's handcuffed , he can still...'. And thats just in the first two pages. I wont bother reading any more. Lets talk about everything except the heavy handed tactics eh? :bored:

Read some more.

[GiRTh]

Read some more.Had a quick look and we're still arguing if he's on his neck so no I've seen enough.

[Swan]

Had a quick look and we're still arguing if he's on his neck so no I've seen enough.

I never disputed that fwiw.

[GiRTh]

I never disputed that fwiw.I almost missed the -'What about the people mouthing off at the police' :facepalm: Yeah I've definitely seen enough.

[Marsh.]

:laugh2:

We started with 'He's not on his neck' then we went to 'but, what did he do' now its 'even if he's handcuffed , he can still...'. And thats just in the first two pages. I wont bother reading any more. Lets talk about everything except the heavy handed tactics eh? :bored:

:joker:

[Beso]

I almost missed the -'What about the people mouthing off at the police' :facepalm: Yeah I've definitely seen enough.

The police wont run away all the time my friend.:nono:

It's been tried before.

[Kizzy]

Cuffs are restraints, they are effectively restraining someone who is already restrained.

The key word is proportionate... was the response proportionate to the threat?
1 unarmed man in cuffs, 2 officers one on legs one knealt on his neck/head area.
The suspension shows the police feel this is excessive.

The usual 'what if ' bull is totally irrelevant.

[Beso]

Cuffs are restraints, they are effectively restraining someone who is already restrained.

The key word is proportionate... was the response proportionate to the threat?
1 unarmed man in cuffs, 2 officers one on legs one knealt on his neck/head area.
The suspension shows the police feel this is excessive.

The usual 'what if ' bull is totally irrelevant.


This is a non story..a normal day in any town or city, it could have been anyone of any nationality or colour if that matters.

The left will dress it up to further divide normal british citizens to try and gain votes in the future.
Tibb will hurl racist accusations whilst seeing the colour of the criminal before anything else when a normal british citizens mentions the normality of it all..


But that's life I guess

[user104658]

:laugh2:

We started with 'He's not on his neck' then we went to 'but, what did he do' now its 'even if he's handcuffed , he can still...'. And thats just in the first two pages. I wont bother reading any more. Lets talk about everything except the heavy handed tactics eh? :bored:

I mean there are only 3 pages, it's not a very long thread... and there was quite a bit of discussion about it being heavy-handed regardless early on in the thread. And I still think there's a fair bit of conflation going on. I genuinely think this is more an example of officers being poorly trained, then a deliberate attempt to harm. That's not an excuse but it's an important distinction.

[thesheriff443]

Hand cuffing from the front does not give the best level of restraint because someone who is cuffed that way still has a lot of range of movement.

The fact he is on the ground tells me he put up a struggle and had to be taken to the ground.

I’ve been arrested with out cuffs and without cuffs, resisting will get you no where only with a charge of resisting arrest or assault.

[Kizzy]

This is a non story..a normal day in any town or city, it could have been anyone of any nationality or colour if that matters.

The left will dress it up to further divide normal british citizens to try and gain votes in the future.
Tibb will hurl racist accusations whilst seeing the colour of the criminal before anything else when a normal british citizens mentions the normality of it all..


But that's life I guess

It's not..there is an issue here raised by the police themselves. Attempting to normalise this is counter productive.
If you think this is acceptable then that is for you and your conscience, the public body involved have admitted there were failings. Falling over yourself to justify those failings does not make any of this 'normal'

[Marsh.]

It's not..there is an issue here raised by the police themselves. Attempting to normalise this is counter productive.
If you think this is acceptable then that is for you and your conscience, the public body involved have admitted there were failings. Falling over yourself to justify those failings does not make any of this 'normal'

:clap1:

[Crimson Dynamo]

Police bad

Grr

[GoldHeart]

What is wrong with the police , they have the guy on the floor helpless and handcuffed so why do they feel they need to use extra force !?? .

[Kizzy]

Police bad

Grr

Nope the police are not bad, they are great, this incident is bad.

[Marsh.]

Police bad

Grr

As opposed to thinking the police are perfect..... because they're police?

[Beso]

I don't think any of you are alright in all honesty.

It's not..there is an issue here raised by the police themselves. Attempting to normalise this is counter productive.
If you think this is acceptable then that is for you and your conscience, the public body involved have admitted there were failings. Falling over yourself to justify those failings does not make any of this 'normal'

No.

I'm sorry kizzy, but all I see is the police authorities giving the internet what it wants..appeasement.. nothing more and nothing less.


We have all seen bouncers do a lot worse to many many punters, no matter what shape or size they are,.

An arsehole is an arsehole, and having your head squeezed by a local Bobby well sorry, but that is part and parcel of your occupational hazard..


To put it simply...Dont act like an aggressive arsehole and people on top of you will be able to keep control and balance pretty easily..

[Beso]

It's not..there is an issue here raised by the police themselves. Attempting to normalise this is counter productive.
If you think this is acceptable then that is for you and your conscience, the public body involved have admitted there were failings. Falling over yourself to justify those failings does not make any of this 'normal'

It is normal though, the police are merely bowing down to a perceived public opinion by coming out with the crap about an enquiry or whatever.

He's lucky this isn't the 79s n 80s or he would have been piled ogf the street into a van and beaten up.

Luckily for that thug the worlds gone soft.

[Ammi]

...it’s good that videos were taken on phones, as it obviously breaks all training guidelines, which is very worrying in light of recent events with George Floyd...maybe this guy was being ‘difficult’ with his arrest, but that’s quite commonplace, surely...police officers aren’t trained to deal with ‘easy arrests’, they’re trained to deal with difficult ones and without placing that persons life at risk in a such a way...

[Nicky91]

No.

I'm sorry kizzy, but all I see is the police authorities giving the internet what it wants..appeasement.. nothing more and nothing less.


We have all seen bouncers do a lot worse to many many punters, no matter what shape or size they are,.

An arsehole is an arsehole, and having your head squeezed by a local Bobby well sorry, but that is part and parcel of your occupational hazard..


To put it simply…Dont act like an aggressive arsehole and people on top of you will be able to keep control and balance pretty easily..

in other words, make the world a dictatorship run by the law enforcement elitists :bored:

[thesheriff443]

...it’s good that videos were taken on phones, as it obviously breaks all training guidelines, which is very worrying in light of recent events with George Floyd...maybe this guy was being ‘difficult’ with his arrest, but that’s quite commonplace, surely...police officers aren’t trained to deal with ‘easy arrests’, they’re trained to deal with difficult ones and without placing that persons life at risk in a such a way...

Have you had many dealings trying to detain someone who is violent and aggressive they don’t do as they are told.

They should of emptied a canister of pepper spray in his eyes.

These videos only serve to make the police the enemy when they are clearly not.

They are humans doing a thankless job there are good and bad people in the police force.

[caprimint]

He should have taken the advice of his "bruv" sooner and relaxed himself.

[Ammi]

...yeah, for sure I’ve had restraining and de-escalation experiences as well as training...but that has no relevance to this at all...whatever ‘agitated’ state, he was no direct threat and whatever his suspected crimes, a restraining method that could have led to his death was not in any way appropriate...

[joeysteele]

The police do come across difficult situations and arrests every day.

They know how to get that situation under control once they have the suspect.

This was over the top and in light of the recent issue around George Floyd, as Ammi said.
It makes it more concerning.

This will add fuel to the praise it was filmed, however also to fuel suspicion against the police as to arrests not filmed.

Which is why the police need to act on this.
It was wrong to carry on being so heavy handed.
They are trained to use the minimum and only necessary force to apprehend any suspect/s.

They on this filmed arrest, failed to stick to that training on both counts.
In my view.

[thesheriff443]

...yeah, for sure I’ve had restraining and de-escalation experiences as well as training...but that has no relevance to this at all...whatever ‘agitated’ state, he was no direct threat and whatever his suspected crimes, a restraining method that could have led to his death was not in any way appropriate...

What you see as over the top I see as appropriate, don’t fight the cops and they won’t fight you simple.

A man cuffed with his arms in front is still very dangerous.

The police officers are calm despite deal with a man putting up a fight.

If you had no experience with the police both first hand and seeing them detain people kicking off you are just arm chair watching.

[Mystic Mock]

Again the video taker is making the incident ten times worse simply by filming.

Tbf the officer shouldn't be kneeling on the civilian's neck like that.

And tbh filming it is probably the best way to get evidence against Police brutality.

[Mystic Mock]

Police bad

Grr

Is that the sequel episode to Buffy's Beer Bad?:hehe:

I thought that I'd try and lighten up the mood a little bit.:laugh:

[joeysteele]

Tbf the officer shouldn't be kneeling on the civilian's neck like that.

And tbh filming it is probably the best way to get evidence against Police brutality.

I agree Mock.
Because such brutality does sadly exist in police forces.
As you say, filming helps combat that.

Which in the end is good to combat, for the public, police and in fact the law too.

[Beso]

Tbf the officer shouldn't be kneeling on the civilian's neck like that.

And tbh filming it is probably the best way to get evidence against Police brutality.

They need to shut up whilst doing it then..

[Ammi]

...well the Deputy Police Commissioner who thankfully does have that experience and isn’t armchair watching found it ‘extremely disturbing’ as well and not in line with any training those officers would have been given and should have been adhering to...after also viewing the body-worn video footage from the officers and hearing their statements he referred the matter to the IOPC....and suspended one and removed the other from operational duties...

[Ammi]

...as for the police officers remaining calm...it’s very easy to remain calm when you have your knee on someone’s neck in such a way that it gives you control over their very life...or death...as we saw with George Floyd, not a flicker of any other emotion other than calm was shown by the officer...

[Kizzy]

No.

I'm sorry kizzy, but all I see is the police authorities giving the internet what it wants..appeasement.. nothing more and nothing less.


We have all seen bouncers do a lot worse to many many punters, no matter what shape or size they are,.

An arsehole is an arsehole, and having your head squeezed by a local Bobby well sorry, but that is part and parcel of your occupational hazard..


To put it simply...Dont act like an aggressive arsehole and people on top of you will be able to keep control and balance pretty easily..

No...

The police are not 'bouncers'
I'm sorry but if you think the police pander to the whims of the internet you are misled. They have a procedure to follow, if they choose to deviate from that then they are at risk of breaking the law themselves.
The police are not infallible, procedure is there for a reason, to keep both the police and the public safe.

[smudgie]

The man has been charged.
He had a knife.
Well done to the police for tackling him.
Not going to comment on the restraint being over the top or not as I have no idea if it was needed or not.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Another scumbag off the street. Well done our bobbies

[caprimint]

Another scumbag off the street. Well done our bobbies
:clap2:

[rusticgal]

Another scumbag off the street. Well done our bobbies


:clap1:

[Cherie]

I think most of us are lucky to be in jobs where if we make a mistake we can correct it or reflect on it and decide to do it a different way in future without being filmed and shamed and suspended, training is great but it’s no substitute for on the job experience, like when you learn to drive it’s only once you pass your test and start driving on your own you gain proper driving experience, these were two young men might would benefit from being paired with an experienced officer, it would be easy to say they should have done better but I’ve never grappled with a guy with a knife, the knee on the head doesn’t look great btw

[Liam-]

Well done to the deputy commissioner rightfully punishing an overly aggressive, out of hand officer :clap1:

[arista]

Well done to the deputy commissioner rightfully punishing an overly aggressive, out of hand officer :clap1:


Yes
and good they arrested him
he had a knife.

[caprimint]

Well done to the deputy commissioner rightfully punishing an overly aggressive, out of hand officer :clap1:
Lol the way you care more about the fact you think he was "aggressive" (when he wasn't anyway) says a lot. I doubt you'd be saying the same thing if he had used that knife on one of your family members though :hee:

[rusticgal]

I think most of us are lucky to be in jobs where if we make a mistake we can correct it or reflect on it and decide to do it a different way in future without being filmed and shamed and suspended, training is great but it’s no substitute for on the job experience, like when you learn to drive it’s only once you pass your test and start driving on your own you gain proper driving experience, these were two young men might would benefit from being paired with an experienced officer, it would be easy to say they should have done better but I’ve never grappled with a guy with a knife, the knee on the head doesn’t look great btw


Well said Cherie....the bloke had a knife and was resisting arrest...he was a danger to life....but lets all focus on how the police treated him. Lets all focus on the police officer kneeling on his head trying to restrain a man intent on some sort of violence and risking his life and others...but please dont hurt me when you arrest me..:nono:
I cant believe the police officer knelt on his head in light of what has recently happened...but you can see restraining his head does stop any resistance. However its obviously not the way they are taught. The officers look very young and the one kneeling on his head looked very uncomfortable after the incident and realised what he had done. I felt for him.

[Liam-]

Yes
and good they arrested him
he had a knife.

Sure, it’s just a shame they couldn’t do it without excessive restrictive force

[Glenn.]

Well done to the deputy commissioner rightfully punishing an overly aggressive, out of hand officer :clap1:

:clap1:

[Swan]

the bloke had a knife and was resisting arrest...he was a danger to life

Which is what should be the actual headline, but don't expect to see it anywhere.

[Marsh.]

I think most of us are lucky to be in jobs where if we make a mistake we can correct it or reflect on it and decide to do it a different way in future without being filmed and shamed and suspended, training is great but it’s no substitute for on the job experience, like when you learn to drive it’s only once you pass your test and start driving on your own you gain proper driving experience, these were two young men might would benefit from being paired with an experienced officer, it would be easy to say they should have done better but I’ve never grappled with a guy with a knife, the knee on the head doesn’t look great btw

I think the lucky part for us is a mistake in our jobs would usually be fairly trivial and not result in the harm, or even death, of someone due to our actions. If someone died or was harmed under the care of a shoddily trained doctor we wouldn't chalk it up to experience. Should be the same for shoddily trained police officers imo.

[Tom4784]

It doesn't matter what the person was guilty of, you don't kneel on someone's neck OR head. Honestly, people need to stop being bootlickers when it comes to the police and point out brutality and incompetence for what they are. It doesn't serve anyone to defend poor behaviour and choices made by police officers.

[arista]

Sure, it’s just a shame they couldn’t do it without excessive restrictive force


Of course an error

[rusticgal]

It doesn't matter what the person was guilty of, you don't kneel on someone's neck OR head.



It wont matter to you until the thing that person is guilty of is taking the life of your love one...then i dont suppose you would give a flying **** how they were arrested..

[Tom4784]

It wont matter to you until the thing that person is guilty of is taking the life of your love one...then i dont suppose you would give a flying **** how they were arrested..

A pointless emotional response with no logic or critical thinking.

[Marsh.]

It wont matter to you until the thing that person is guilty of is taking the life of your love one...then i dont suppose you would give a flying **** how they were arrested..

When did the man in the OP become a murderer?

Saying the policeman is justified in NOT following the procedures of his job on the off chance he was on a killing spree is a nonsensical contribution.

[Tom4784]

When did the man in the OP become a murderer?

When it suited that poster's need to excuse police brutality.

[Swan]

It doesn't matter what the person was guilty of, you don't kneel on someone's neck OR head. Honestly, people need to stop being bootlickers when it comes to the police and point out brutality and incompetence for what they are. It doesn't serve anyone to defend poor behaviour and choices made by police officers.

I disagree. If he had just stabbed a few people and was on a rampage in the streets, he should be restrained by any means necessary as long as it protects more potential victims, the police and even himself.

Certain crimes and behaviour does warrant excessive force. The cop in question shouldn't have knelt on the guys head. But he obviously was a danger and needed to be restrained. More training is needed for these types of situations.

[rusticgal]

A pointless emotional response with no logic or critical thinking.


:joker:....call it what you want but you know i'm right...:laugh:

[Marsh.]

:joker:....call it what you want but you know i'm right...:laugh:

Except... you're not. The officer in question's suspension is proof of that.

[rusticgal]

I disagree. If he had just stabbed a few people and was on a rampage in the streets, he should be restrained by any means necessary as long as it protects more potential victims, the police and even himself.

Certain crimes and behaviour does warrant excessive force. The cop in question shouldn't have knelt on the guys head. But he obviously was a danger and needed to be restrained. More training is needed for these types of situations.


Exactly....it was a stupid comment to make.

[Tom4784]

I disagree. If he had just stabbed a few people and was on a rampage in the streets, he should be restrained by any means necessary as long as it protects more potential victims, the police and even himself.

Certain crimes and behaviour does warrant excessive force. The cop in question shouldn't have knelt on the guys head. But he obviously was a danger and needed to be restrained. More training is needed for these types of situations.

Extreme hypotheticals are utterly pointless. In the kinds of situations you are describing, it'll be armed police that serve as the response, not the everyday officer on patrol.

There's no reason for an officer to kneel on someone's neck or head, especially when they are already constrained and in cuffs.

[Tom4784]

:joker:....call it what you want but you know i'm right...:laugh:

No, you're speaking nonsense. You don't know me, you don't know what I might have been through or how I might react to stuff. You're just projecting your own irrationalities onto other people to suit your non-existent argument.

Police brutality is police brutality, overly emotional statements and bootlicking doesn't change that.

[Swan]

Extreme hypotheticals are utterly pointless. In the kinds of situations you are describing, it'll be armed police that serve as the response, not the everyday officer on patrol.

There's no reason for an officer to kneel on someone's neck or head, especially when they are already constrained and in cuffs.

It's not really an 'extreme hypothetical' the guy was violent and carrying a knife, who knows what he was capable of. And again, the way he was cuffed didn't mean he wasn't still somewhat of a threat.

[Tom4784]

It's not really an 'extreme hypothetical' the guy was violent and carrying a knife, who knows what he was capable of. And again, the way he was cuffed didn't mean he wasn't still somewhat of a threat.

The idea that he'd go on a stabbing spree is an extreme situation and you're trying to use that to justify 'everyday' brutality.

He was on the floor and cuffed, tell me, how was he a threat?

[rusticgal]

Except... you're not. The officer in question's suspension is proof of that.

Missed the point AGAIN...:pat:


IF this man had stabbed and killed someone or several people this police officer would NOT be suspended for restraining him in an aggressive way ?....he would be a ****ing hero....

[Swan]

The idea that he'd go on a stabbing spree is an extreme situation and you're trying to use that to justify 'everyday' brutality.

He was on the floor and cuffed, tell me, how was he a threat?

He was cuffed with his hands at the front of his body, he could have still got to a pocket. Obviously he wasn't as much of a threat, but the threat was still somewhat there as he was clearly resisting.

[Tom4784]

Missed the point AGAIN...:pat:


IF this man had stabbed and killed someone or several people this police officer would NOT be suspended for restraining him in an aggressive way ?....he would be a ****ing hero....

Except that didn't happen, stop confusing hypotheticals for reality.

[Glenn.]

Missed the point AGAIN...:pat:


IF this man had stabbed and killed someone or several people this police officer would NOT be suspended for restraining him in an aggressive way ?....he would be a ****ing hero....

He didn’t stab anyone though did he? I think you’re missing the point...

Like someone has stated, the officer being suspended means he was the one in the wrong. And rightly so.

[user104658]

I think the lucky part for us is a mistake in our jobs would usually be fairly trivial and not result in the harm, or even death, of someone due to our actions. If someone died or was harmed under the care of a shoddily trained doctor we wouldn't chalk it up to experience. Should be the same for shoddily trained police officers imo.

I think the doctor comparison is a decent one because in the medical profession you WOULDN'T have an inexperienced staff member with an unproven record making life and death decisions without oversight from a more experienced professional. A junior doctor a few years out of med school isn't scheduling a risky surgery for a patient without oversight from an experienced consultant.

But that seems to be much more rare in policing... Especially in "Street policing" it seems that complete n00bs can be teamed up with relatively inexperienced officers (maybe a few years) or even officers with plenty of experience but no proven ability level other than miles on the clock (more or less meaningless in isolation) so they're developing bad habits that are never called out, or worse picking up ingrained bad practice and thinking its normal. Systemic failures in training and mentorship.

[caprimint]

Why would he be carrying a knife if the intent was not to harm/kill somebody, or at the very least scare people with it to use to his advantage?

I'm genuinely shocked that people are trying to defend him here. Actually... I'm not. :facepalm:

[Tom4784]

He was cuffed with his hands at the front of his body, he could have still got to a pocket. Obviously he wasn't as much of a threat, but the threat was still somewhat there as he was clearly resisting.

Officers are trained to restrain people without dealing damage or trauma to the neck or head. When they use the batons, for example, they cannot strike you above a certain point, blows are aimed at limbs mostly.

At the end of the day, the man was cuffed and on the floor and there were more than one officer present. Going on about what could have happened is pointless when it didn't happen, especially when that kind of argument is used to explain away something that DID happen.

[Liam-]

I can’t see anyone defending him, people are rightly criticising the rough, unwarranted ‘technique’ of a public servant

[Tom4784]

Why would he be carrying a knife if the intent was not to harm/kill somebody, or at the very least scare people with it to use to his advantage?

I'm genuinely shocked that people are trying to defend him here. Actually... I'm not. :facepalm:

It's not about defending him, it's about not tolerating poor policing. I don't know why that's so difficult to grasp for people.

[caprimint]

It's not about defending him, it's about not tolerating poor policing. I don't know why that's so difficult to grasp for people.
Well considering you're about "not creating hypotheticals" you should probably drop thinking about "what if" he caused trauma to his head or neck, because he didn't.

[Tom4784]

Well considering you're about "not creating hypotheticals" you should probably drop thinking about "what if" he caused trauma to his head or neck, because he didn't.

You need to read what I said again because you've completely misread it.

I never used that as a hypothetical, I just said that the police aren't allowed to deal any kind of trauma to the head or neck. Leaning on someone's head or neck is just bad policing.

[Nicky91]

ok now there is the info he was armed with a knife, i can understand why he was arrested

but if he was already in handcuffs, no way he could've stabbed someone like that, so kneeling on top of him was not necessary anymore

so good on police intervening in time before he actually stabbed (injured or killed) someone, but the kneeling part was out of line, especially should've known better given with all BLM protests in news recently

[caprimint]

You need to read what I said again because you've completely misread it.

I never used that as a hypothetical, I just said that the police aren't allowed to deal any kind of trauma to the head or neck. Leaning on someone's head or neck is just bad policing.
Is there anybody who even disagrees with that though? They were struggling against him because he was...

[rusticgal]

He didn’t stab anyone though did he? I think you’re missing the point...

Like someone has stated, the officer being suspended means he was the one in the wrong. And rightly so.


...just like your buddy, you failed to read my post properly which makes your response null and void.
Of course he has been suspended..he has been suspended because of what happened in America and the repercussions. The police have probably been restraining people like this for years without incident.
My response was based on Dezzys comment of IT DOESNT MATTER WHAT HE DID...well actually it does because IF he had killed someone this officer woud have been a hero for restraining him in whatever way he saw fit.

[caprimint]

...just like your buddy, you failed to read my post properly which makes your response null and void.
Of course he has been suspended..he has been suspended because of what happened in America and the repercussions. The police have probably been restraining people like this for years without incident.
My response was based on Dezzys comment of IT DOESNT MATTER WHAT HE DID...well actually it does because IF he had killed someone this officer woud have been a hero for restraining him in whatever way he saw fit.
You said all of this perfectly :clap1:

[Tom4784]

Is there anybody who even disagrees with that though? They were struggling against him because he was...

And that doesn't give them the right to disregard their training. They are taught how to take someone into custody without kneeling on their necks or heads. They did wrong, they disregarded their own rules and that kind of thing can prove deadly, as evidenced in the US, if you allow it to fester.

We must always criticise the police when they do wrong because when the police gets it wrong, it puts people in danger. The crime in unimportant, there's a code of conduct and this officer broke it.

[Tom4784]

...just like your buddy, you failed to read my post properly which makes your response null and void.
Of course he has been suspended..he has been suspended because of what happened in America and the repercussions. The police have probably been restraining people like this for years without incident.
My response was based on Dezzys comment of IT DOESNT MATTER WHAT HE DID...well actually it does because IF he had killed someone this officer woud have been a hero for restraining him in whatever way he saw fit.

You're not getting it. You keep relying on fantasies to justify reality. You are incapable of being rational in this discussion.

The police officer got suspended because he did wrong, you're just making him out to be the victim when he was the one that disregarded his own training.

[rusticgal]

ok now there is the info he was armed with a knife, i can understand why he was arrested

but if he was already in handcuffs, no way he could've stabbed someone like that, so kneeling on top of him was not necessary anymore

so good on police intervening in time before he actually stabbed (injured or killed) someone, but the kneeling part was out of line, especially should've known better given with all BLM protests in news recently

I agree....but just because he was cuffed it did not stop him resisting. He can still lash out with his feet...his hands are in front of him not behind his back which is less restrictive. He can still get up, push, kick and run away.

[user104658]

Well considering you're about "not creating hypotheticals" you should probably drop thinking about "what if" he caused trauma to his head or neck, because he didn't.Hmm but the "what if" isn't really about the potential consequences, the question isn't "was he hurt" in hindsight, the only important question is "is it dangerous". And that's not a hypothetical - it IS dangerous.

For what it's worth I don't think this officer was being deliberately careless or aggressive or had an intent to cause harm, but I do think from the video there's clear evidence of inexperience and bad practice that should be identified and addressed. It's also not really about the one officer involved - it indicates that there are issues with training and application when it comes to reasonable restraint that need to be looked at. I don't think he should be fired. But I do think he shouldn't be arresting anyone until there's evidence that appropriate training has been given (and genuinely understood - not just a checkbox exercise)

[Swan]

All this 'well it didn't happen, he didn't do this or that' nonsense. Surely prevention is the best way to go about it, by using force if necessary. Or are we in an age where we allow someone to potentially kill, rather than restrain, at the risk of offending some members of the public (whilst trying to protect and serve them). The man was carrying a knife, was resisting arrest, was violent, he was obviously dangerous and threat to the public. Should he have had his head knelt on when cuffed, nope, but in the heat of the moment, it can't be easy restraining a violent, armed criminal.

More training is needed, with increasing knife crime and violence, and with so much public unrest, these situations will arise more and more.

[Ammi]

...(..the guy was charged, this is about the restraint used and how appropriate that was...)...after interviewing the police officer making the arrest and scrutinising their body cam video footage...as well as obviously any witness videos as we’ve seen...the Deputy Police Commissioner described the arrest as ‘extremely disturbing’...and not in line with any training methods the police force are given...which is why one has been suspended and the other removed from operational duties...if it’s being said that this is an incorrect police decision also...?...that it isn’t just the officers who are open to the correct investigations for their action...but the Deputy Commissioner also...then that really is extremely worrying going forward with our police force...

[Tom4784]

All this 'well it didn't happen, he didn't do this or that' nonsense. Surely prevention is the best way to go about it, by using force if necessary. Or are we in an age where we allow someone to potentially kill, rather than restrain, at the risk of offending some members of the public (whilst trying to protect and serve them). The man was carrying a knife, was resisting arrest, was violent, he was obviously dangerous and threat to the public. Should he have had his head knelt on when cuffed, nope, but in the heat of the moment, it can't be easy restraining a violent, armed criminal.

More training is needed, with increasing knife crime and violence, and with so much public unrest, these situations will arise more and more.

Nonsense, you can take preventative measures without kneeling on someone's neck or head, the police are trained to do so. Why are you trying to act like we're saying that we'd allow someone to kill another when that's not the case? You're shoving words down people's throats and it's a pathetic way of arguing your point.

At the end of the day, you can arrest a violent person without breaching protocol, thousands of officers do it every day.

[rusticgal]

You're not getting it. You keep relying on fantasies to justify reality. You are incapable of being rational in this discussion.

The police officer got suspended because he did wrong, you're just making him out to be the victim when he was the one that disregarded his own training.

No Dezzy you are not getting it. No one on here has disagreed with the officers suspension. At no point have I made him out to be a victim..its not my fault that you interpret my views wrongly. You are incapable of discussion. Next time we have a knifeman on the loose who actually stabs and kills someone lets just hope a policeman doesnt have to second think how to reprimand him without showing any aggression at the expense of endangering the public further.

Why is it you and your crew cant respond to debate without making it personal.

[Ammi]

No Dezzy you are not getting it. No one on here has disagreed with the officers suspension. At no point have I made him out to be a victim..its not my fault that you interpret my views wrongly. You are incapable of discussion. Next time we have a knifeman on the loose who actually stabs and kills someone lets just hope a policeman doesnt have to second think how to reprimand him without showing any aggression at the expense of endangering the public further.

Why is it you and your crew cant respond to debate without making it personal.

...excuse me..?..

[Swan]

Nonsense, you can take preventative measures without kneeling on someone's neck or head, the police are trained to do so. Why are you trying to act like we're saying that we'd allow someone to kill another when that's not the case? You're shoving words down people's throats and it's a pathetic way of arguing your point.

At the end of the day, you can arrest a violent person without breaching protocol, thousands of officers do it every day.

Im not shoving anything down your throat love.

[Tom4784]

No Dezzy you are not getting it. No one on here has disagreed with the officers suspension. At no point have I made him out to be a victim..its not my fault that you interpret my views wrongly. You are incapable of discussion. Next time we have a knifeman on the loose who actually stabs and kills someone lets just hope a policeman doesnt have to second think how to reprimand him without showing any aggression at the expense of endangering the public further.

Why is it you and your crew cant respond to debate without making it personal.

Yeah, I'm not engaging with this, you have nothing more to add and I have nothing more to say.

[Tom4784]

Im not shoving anything down your throat love.

You basically made out that people who took issue with this would basically allow someone to be killed because.... the police can't restrain someone without kneeling on their neck?

[Glenn.]

...just like your buddy, you failed to read my post properly which makes your response null and void.
Of course he has been suspended..he has been suspended because of what happened in America and the repercussions. The police have probably been restraining people like this for years without incident.
My response was based on Dezzys comment of IT DOESNT MATTER WHAT HE DID...well actually it does because IF he had killed someone this officer woud have been a hero for restraining him in whatever way he saw fit.

No what we can base this on is what ACTUALLY happened. What your nonsense post indicated was a scenario that never happened which is the real null and void.

[Tom4784]

When it comes down to it, if someone's in a position where you can kneel on their neck, they have likely already been detained. All these arguments and what ifs don't really apply. If someone is on the floor and cuffed, you don't need to lean on their neck or head.

[thesheriff443]

When it comes down to it, if someone's in a position where you can kneel on their neck, they have likely already been detained. All these arguments and what ifs don't really apply. If someone is on the floor and cuffed, you don't need to lean on their neck or head.

Put me in the same position on the floor with the cuffs on at the front and I would seriously hurt you if you was a copper.

You lot have never been in a fight in your life.

When adrenaline kick in it gives people incredible strength that’s why you sometimes see 5 police trying to hold one guy.

[Swan]

Put me in the same position on the floor with the cuffs on at the front and I would seriously hurt you if you was a copper.

You lot have never been in a fight in your life.

When adrenaline kick in it gives people incredible strength that’s why you sometimes see 5 police trying to hold one guy.

Hence being cuffed frontways (not even a word) he still posed a very real threat.

[Nicky91]

No Dezzy you are not getting it. No one on here has disagreed with the officers suspension. At no point have I made him out to be a victim..its not my fault that you interpret my views wrongly. You are incapable of discussion. Next time we have a knifeman on the loose who actually stabs and kills someone lets just hope a policeman doesnt have to second think how to reprimand him without showing any aggression at the expense of endangering the public further.

Why is it you and your crew cant respond to debate without making it personal.

yes well said, police officers do still need to use some form of force in restraining the suspect

maybe pepper spray, tear gas are good options in taking suspects down still a use of force, but more a mild way, i mean if tear gas or pepper spray is in eyes, it can be washed out with water afterwards while in police custody of course

also i am soo here for no more debates becoming personal, i mean more it can go heated i am not against that, but staying ontopic is also good for the debate too

[Ammi]

...well, the investigation/inquiry will take place, which is exactly what should happen with such a questionable method used and if there are specific reasons why there was no alternative to what has been described as ‘extremely disturbing’ by the police body official...then I’m sure that will all be revealed in the inquiry and the correct outcome will be made...

[The Slim Reaper]

Put me in the same position on the floor with the cuffs on at the front and I would seriously hurt you if you was a copper.

You lot have never been in a fight in your life.

When adrenaline kick in it gives people incredible strength that’s why you sometimes see 5 police trying to hold one guy.

Come off it, Sheriff. You ain't hurting ish.

https://media1.giphy.com/media/D7z8JfNANqahW/giphy.gif

[Crimson Dynamo]

Lol the way you care more about the fact you think he was "aggressive" (when he wasn't anyway) says a lot. I doubt you'd be saying the same thing if he had used that knife on one of your family members though :hee:

Well said

[Liam-]

Well said

Thought you were against family members being brought into discussions?

[Marsh.]

Missed the point AGAIN...:pat:


IF this man had stabbed and killed someone or several people this police officer would NOT be suspended for restraining him in an aggressive way ?....he would be a ****ing hero....

I think it's you who is not getting it.

IF this man had stabbed and killed anyone he would not be getting arrested by this officer.

Think before posting. 'IF' is not a valid discussion of what ACTUALLY took place. So, "this would be ok if this man was a murderer", well, he's not a murderer so it has **** all to do with the discussion.

[Marsh.]

Why would he be carrying a knife if the intent was not to harm/kill somebody, or at the very least scare people with it to use to his advantage?

I'm genuinely shocked that people are trying to defend him here. Actually... I'm not. :facepalm:

Who's defended him?

[Marsh.]

Put me in the same position on the floor with the cuffs on at the front and I would seriously hurt you if you was a copper.

You lot have never been in a fight in your life.

When adrenaline kick in it gives people incredible strength that’s why you sometimes see 5 police trying to hold one guy.

:joker: Sheriff with the obligatory "I'm a hard bastard" contribution.

[caprimint]

All this 'well it didn't happen, he didn't do this or that' nonsense. Surely prevention is the best way to go about it, by using force if necessary. Or are we in an age where we allow someone to potentially kill, rather than restrain, at the risk of offending some members of the public (whilst trying to protect and serve them). The man was carrying a knife, was resisting arrest, was violent, he was obviously dangerous and threat to the public. Should he have had his head knelt on when cuffed, nope, but in the heat of the moment, it can't be easy restraining a violent, armed criminal.

More training is needed, with increasing knife crime and violence, and with so much public unrest, these situations will arise more and more.
All of this 100%

Who's defended him?
People appear to not actually care that he had a knife because he "didn't use it" lol.

When the only reason he didn't was because of those police officers, most likely if not that particular day, very possibly in the future.

He was a danger to the public and all people care about is a policeman trying to stop him using a minor amount of force.

[rusticgal]

I think it's you who is not getting it.

IF this man had stabbed and killed anyone he would not be getting arrested by this officer.

Think before posting. 'IF' is not a valid discussion of what ACTUALLY took place. So, "this would be ok if this man was a murderer", well, he's not a murderer so it has **** all to do with the discussion.


It’s a broadened discussion....looking at the bigger picture...all part of the topic Marsh..:laugh:

[rusticgal]

People appear to not actually care that he had a knife because he "didn't use it" lol.

When the only reason he didn't was because of those police officers, most likely if not that particular day, very possibly in the future.

He was a danger to the public and all people care about is a policeman trying to stop him using a minor amount of force.


Lol...it’s called Tunnel Vision :laugh:

[Marsh.]

It’s a broadened discussion....looking at the bigger picture...all part of the topic Marsh..:laugh:

Not really. If this man was a murderer it would be an entirely different situation.

If you have to exaggerate the situation to that of "a man whose stabbed dozens of people and killed your family" in order to make your point seem logical then it's no longer logical or rational.

[Marsh.]

People appear to not actually care that he had a knife because he "didn't use it" lol.

When the only reason he didn't was because of those police officers, most likely if not that particular day, very possibly in the future.

He was a danger to the public and all people care about is a policeman trying to stop him using a minor amount of force.

Nobody has said any of this. They've said him having a knife doesn't change the fact the police officer did not follow procedure.

I don't think it needs pointing out that it is not a defence of the criminal being arrested and what they were arrested for.

[Swan]

Not really. If this man was a murderer it would be an entirely different situation.

You're not getting what people are saying, we're not saying he is/was a murderer. We're saying he had the potential to be one, be it he was carrying a deadly weapon. The intent was/could have been there. He wasn't treated like this for stealing a can of coke, but the fact that he was involved in a violent crime, and carrying a knife.

[Marsh.]

You're not getting what people are saying, we're not saying he is/was a murderer. We're saying he had the potential to be one, be it he was carrying a deadly weapon. The intent was/could have been there. He was treated like this for stealing a can of coke, but the fact that he was involved in a violent crime, and carrying a knife.

I don't recall commenting on what you said.

The police officer's actions were not appropriate, hence his suspension.

[Swan]

I don't recall commenting on what you said.

The police officer's actions were not appropriate, hence his suspension.

Which means what exactly? That i have no right to comment on what you post, on an open forum?

[Marsh.]

Which means what exactly? That i have no right to comment on what you post, on an open forum?

Nope. It means that your response of "That's not what we're saying" makes no sense since none of what I said was aimed at your views.

[Swan]

Nope. It means that your response of "That's not what we're saying" makes no sense since none of what I said was aimed at your views.

Myself and few others are saying the same thing, your post went against what i was saying, being on an open forum i added my opinion to what you was saying. Makes perfect sense actually, it's how forums and debates work.

[caprimint]

Nobody has said any of this. They've said him having a knife doesn't change the fact the police officer did not follow procedure.

I don't think it needs pointing out that it is not a defence of the criminal being arrested and what they were arrested for.
Okay but what about the MAIN POINT of the fact he was carrying a knife? Seems like that is being ignored and all of this is just yet another way for people to trash the police.

[Marsh.]

Myself and few others are saying the same thing, your post went against what i was saying, being on an open forum i added my opinion to what you was saying. Makes perfect sense actually, it's how forums and debates work.

It really didn't.
You're arguing a point I didn't address. Probably for the sake of it as you have some major issue with me. Go off.

[Swan]

It really didn't.
You're arguing a point I didn't address. Probably for the sake of it as you have some major issue with me. Go off.

Lol, when was the last time i even quoted you in a thread? You're not that important Marsh.

[Marsh.]

Okay but what about the MAIN POINT of the fact he was carrying a knife? Seems like that is being ignored and all of this is just yet another way for people to trash the police.

How is that the main point when the point is that the police officer completely disregarded his training (or wasn't trained properly to begin with)?

The man was being arrested for his crime including carrying this weapon, that's not really up for debate.

The debate is whether the police officer used appropriate measures to bring the man under control. He didn't, therefore he's been suspended.

The police are not infallible.

[Marsh.]

Lol, when was the last time i even quoted you in a thread? You're not that important Marsh.

I'm not, no. You make me feel it though. :hee:

[Glenn.]

Okay but what about the MAIN POINT of the fact he was carrying a knife? Seems like that is being ignored and all of this is just yet another way for people to trash the police.

Only the police that don’t follow the correct procedures.

[Swan]

I'm not, no. You make me feel it though. :hee:

Then i must mean something to you if i make you feel important, yet you mean nothing to me :hee:

[Ammi]

....this is an interesting explanation of police accountability by the Deputy Director General Operations at the IOPC....It makes it very clear why it’s so important that these incidents and the use of force used is always held up for accountability....


‘The police have both extraordinary responsibilities and powers. These include powers that can impact on people’s liberty and even their right to life. If members of the public are to have confidence in the police (including confidence to provide the police with information to help with the fight against crime), it is crucial that they trust them, and trust that if there is wrongdoing or learning it will be identified and acted upon.

When we investigate an officer’s use of force, we often find police officers act appropriately and there were no concerns.

In some cases, we identify serious issues where force was used too quickly, disproportionately to the threat faced or without reasonable justification, or occasionally that non-lethal tactics were overlooked.

This inappropriate use of force is a concern for the public and it is why we successfully campaigned for police forces to record all uses of force by their officers.‘

[Marsh.]

....this is an interesting explanation of police accountability by the Deputy Director General Operations at the IOPC....It makes it very clear why it’s so important that these incidents and the use of force used is always held up for accountability....


‘The police have both extraordinary responsibilities and powers. These include powers that can impact on people’s liberty and even their right to life. If members of the public are to have confidence in the police (including confidence to provide the police with information to help with the fight against crime), it is crucial that they trust them, and trust that if there is wrongdoing or learning it will be identified and acted upon.

When we investigate an officer’s use of force, we often find police officers act appropriately and there were no concerns.

In some cases, we identify serious issues where force was used too quickly, disproportionately to the threat faced or without reasonable justification, or occasionally that non-lethal tactics were overlooked.

This inappropriate use of force is a concern for the public and it is why we successfully campaigned for police forces to record all uses of force by their officers.‘

:clap1:

[Cherie]

Okay but what about the MAIN POINT of the fact he was carrying a knife? Seems like that is being ignored and all of this is just yet another way for people to trash the police.

But but he didn’t use it...so it’s fine ..let him carry on

[Marsh.]

Then i must mean something to you if i make you feel important, yet you mean nothing to me :hee:

See you on the next thread with your next interjection randomer. :thumbs:

[Marsh.]

But but he didn’t use it...so it’s fine ..let him carry on

Erm.... nobody said that....

[Swan]

See you on the next thread with your next interjection randomer. :thumbs:

I might agree with you on the next thread though, so that might not be necessary :thumbs:

[Marsh.]

I might agree

.....nope.

[Swan]

.....nope.

I wish, like you, i could see into the future.

[joeysteele]

....this is an interesting explanation of police accountability by the Deputy Director General Operations at the IOPC....It makes it very clear why it’s so important that these incidents and the use of force used is always held up for accountability....


‘The police have both extraordinary responsibilities and powers. These include powers that can impact on people’s liberty and even their right to life. If members of the public are to have confidence in the police (including confidence to provide the police with information to help with the fight against crime), it is crucial that they trust them, and trust that if there is wrongdoing or learning it will be identified and acted upon.

When we investigate an officer’s use of force, we often find police officers act appropriately and there were no concerns.

In some cases, we identify serious issues where force was used too quickly, disproportionately to the threat faced or without reasonable justification, or occasionally that non-lethal tactics were overlooked.

This inappropriate use of force is a concern for the public and it is why we successfully campaigned for police forces to record all uses of force by their officers.‘


Absolutely.

Well done for posting this.
It's necessary so that police and public have protection.
In that too, the rule of law is upheld too.

Watching the video.
This was over the top and out of order.
Plus no one has said the guy was not wrong for carrying a knife.

It's right to criticise him for that and it's a criminal offence.

Equally so once the police overstep the mark themselves and then also in effect break the rules and even law.
Then they too warrant criticism.

Those police who overstep the mark bring the police force into disrepute.
If they are to just be allowed to.
What then for law and order and justice.
Where does that go?

Really again, good on you for posting this extract of correct procedures being adhered to

Something that has to be done and made sure is done too.

[Kizzy]

Missed the point AGAIN...:pat:


IF this man had stabbed and killed someone or several people this police officer would NOT be suspended for restraining him in an aggressive way ?....he would be a ****ing hero....

Remember what I said about the response being proportionate to the threat?...again 1 man in cuffs and two officers.
Where is the threat?

[Marsh.]

Remember what I said about the response being proportionate to the threat?...again 1 man in cuffs and two officers.
Where is the threat?

They're playing contrary Mary for the sake of it.

[rusticgal]

They're playing contrary Mary for the sake of it.



How antagonistic...must be rubbing off..:laugh:

[Kizzy]

Yes marsh stop making a bad situation worse. .. have you ever thought about becoming a police officer? ;)

[Marsh.]

How antagonistic...must be rubbing off..:laugh:

Yes, you must be.

[Marsh.]

Yes marsh stop making a bad situation worse. .. have you ever thought about becoming a police officer? ;)

:fan:

[Crimson Dynamo]

More excuses for crime, more attacks on our brave police. Abhorrent imo

[Marsh.]

More excuses for crime

What's been the excuse for his crime, exactly?

I don't see anyone objecting to the man being arrested.

[Tom4784]

Put me in the same position on the floor with the cuffs on at the front and I would seriously hurt you if you was a copper.

You lot have never been in a fight in your life.

When adrenaline kick in it gives people incredible strength that’s why you sometimes see 5 police trying to hold one guy.

Watch out, we have a badass here. In reality, you'd be detained like everyone else.

The man was detained, all the what ifs in the world won't change the facts.

[Tom4784]

Lol the way you care more about the fact you think he was "aggressive" (when he wasn't anyway) says a lot. I doubt you'd be saying the same thing if he had used that knife on one of your family members though :hee:

Why does everyone that defends police brutality try to overwrite reality with fantasy? He didn't kill anyone and emotional manipulation won't change the facts.

[Tom4784]

What's been the excuse for his crime, exactly?

I don't see anyone objecting to the man being arrested.


If anyone sees 'kneeling on a neck or a head is against police protocol and shouldn't be done' as 'The detainee did nothing wrong, let the man go on a stabbing spree!', they should go slap whoever taught them to read because they were taught wrong.

[thesheriff443]

Why does everyone that defends police brutality try to overwrite reality with fantasy? He didn't kill anyone and emotional manipulation won't change the facts.

They haven’t just grabbed some innocent guy and threw him on the the ground.

Actions create reactions.

Stop defending criminals.

[Ammi]

...in the interest of fairness, Sheriff...you would have to apply your own view/thoughts to yourself also... if you’ve had no experience of why it’s so, so important that these incidents and the use of force is always held up for accountability....And why the public should always expect accountability...then it’s just armchair watching...


...many arrests are made, every day/every hour of the day and no inquiry is applicable because correct training was followed...but this particular arrest and the use of specific methods of force is of huge concern to the IOPC, as it is to public trust also...no one, no one, no one is or has defended any criminal actions...

[Nicky91]

tbh here i find it understandable the actions from these officers, compared to in the US with george floyd

here they really stopped a dangerous armed thug, whereas the actions from the officers in US was unnecessary violence towards George Floyd


so yeah a shame these london officers get criticism all bc we are living in this BLM/PC world now and apparently all actions by police get put under microscope these days, really a shame


which the police officers who went public into wanting change in law enforcement system, those who went out of line placed the entire force into a bad light which is so wrong

also i am never gonna defend this criminal because you don't carry a knife with you on Streets, in public areas, who knows what this man might've done, or how many he could've killed

[thesheriff443]

...in the interest of fairness, Sheriff...you would have to apply your own view/thoughts to yourself also... if you’ve had no experience of why it’s so, so important that these incidents and the use of force is always held up for accountability....And why the public should always expect accountability...then it’s just armchair watching...


...many arrests are made, every day/every hour of the day and no inquiry is applicable because correct training was followed...but this particular arrest and the use of specific methods of force is of huge concern to the IOPC, as it is to public trust also...no one, no one, no one is or has defended any criminal actions...

He is a criminal he got taken to the ground for a reason.

I’ve been arrested many times and by armed police with dogs, I’ve also seen many arrests first hand.

Its simple, don’t fight the police and they won’t use force that represents the level of threat or hostility they face.

If you never tryed to restrain someone who’s intentions are to get away at any cost then you don’t have the experience to fully understand why they don’t what the do.

[Cherie]

I wonder if anyone in the higher echelons of the force got suspended for the poor decision to send officers into Brixton without protective equipment to disperse an illegal party as it was deemed it would be too intimidating, or are unnecessary injuries to officers acceptable to the Deputy Commissioner

[Ammi]

...I think that’s the whole crux of it, Sheriff...’use force that represents the level of threat or hostility’...that’s been the vein of the thread thought processes throughout, as opposed to ‘defend criminal..!!!’...as the IOPC state, the force used in this arrest is of particular concern to them, as it should also be to the general public who they need above anything else, to have trust in them...because without that, law wouldn’t be able to be upheld at all on any level...

[bots]

i think if the restraining method concerns the police chief then it's certainly a problem

[Oliver_W]

That's not what we meant by #TakeTheKnee :O

[caprimint]

How is that the main point when the point is that the police officer completely disregarded his training (or wasn't trained properly to begin with)?

The man was being arrested for his crime including carrying this weapon, that's not really up for debate.

The debate is whether the police officer used appropriate measures to bring the man under control. He didn't, therefore he's been suspended.

The police are not infallible.
The main point is not a result of why the police acted in the way they did. The main point is WHY he was carrying the knife... its literally that simple.

Again, maybe the policeman could have acted in a more appropriate way but his priority was catching/holding the suspect down whilst knowing he was a threat to the public. He undoubtedly did the right thing here.

You can tell from the video that he was not even using any force on his neck for more than a few seconds, but of course people are going to play on that **** after the George Floyd case. It's not shocking in the slightest.

Only the police that don’t follow the correct procedures.
Yeah, if only the public did too eh? Then a thread like this, or the action from the police would not even be necessary.

But but he didn’t use it...so it’s fine ..let him carry on
:hehe:

Why does everyone that defends police brutality try to overwrite reality with fantasy? He didn't kill anyone and emotional manipulation won't change the facts.
You literally did the exact same thing :skull:

[user104658]

I’ve been arrested many times and by armed police with dogs, I’ve also seen many arrests first hand.


Wow you must be really scary and impressive :flutter:

[Nicky91]

The main point is not a result of why the police acted in the way they did. The main point is WHY he was carrying the knife... its literally that simple.

Again, maybe the policeman could have acted in a more appropriate way but his priority was catching/holding the suspect down whilst knowing he was a threat to the public. He undoubtedly did the right thing here.

You can tell from the video that he was not even using any force on his neck for more than a few seconds, but of course people are going to play on that **** after the George Floyd case. It's not shocking in the slightest.


Yeah, if only the public did too eh? Then a thread like this, or the action from the police would not even be necessary.


:hehe:


You literally did the exact same thing :skull:

exactly that, the man was a threat and needed to be taken down with any force necessary

also i rewatched the video and agreed, there was not much pressure on his neck, unlike with George Floyd

in fact i think they handled this correctly and they made sure he was no longer a threat to anyone and arrested him, but really predictable in current times for police to get the blame, to be seen as the bad guy while in this situation they weren't

[Crimson Dynamo]

exactly that, the man was a threat and needed to be taken down with any force necessary

also i rewatched the video and agreed, there was not much pressure on his neck, unlike with George Floyd

in fact i think they handled this correctly and they made sure he was no longer a threat to anyone and arrested him, but really predictable in current times for police to get the blame, to be seen as the bad guy while in this situation they weren't

:clap1:

[rusticgal]

The main point is not a result of why the police acted in the way they did. The main point is WHY he was carrying the knife... its literally that simple.

Again, maybe the policeman could have acted in a more appropriate way but his priority was catching/holding the suspect down whilst knowing he was a threat to the public. He undoubtedly did the right thing here.

You can tell from the video that he was not even using any force on his neck for more than a few seconds, but of course people are going to play on that **** after the George Floyd case. It's not shocking in the slightest.


Yeah, if only the public did too eh? Then a thread like this, or the action from the police would not even be necessary.


:hehe:


You literally did the exact same thing :skull:


Great post...

[Cherie]

Wow you must be really scary and impressive :flutter:

The good news for Sheriff is he can now escalate to carrying a weapon and if the police so much as lay a finger in the wrong place during his arrest, he will be exonerated by some of his fellow Tibbers :hehe:

[Oliver_W]

The good news for Sheriff is he can now escalate to carrying a weapon and if the police so much as lay a finger in the wrong place during his arrest, he will be exonerated by some of his fellow Tibbers :hehe:

Yup, dangerous thugs with knives should be allowed to roam the streets unchecked, so resisting arrest is completely fine! Evil coppers!!

[The Slim Reaper]

He is a criminal he got taken to the ground for a reason.

I’ve been arrested many times and by armed police with dogs, I’ve also seen many arrests first hand.

Its simple, don’t fight the police and they won’t use force that represents the level of threat or hostility they face.

If you never tryed to restrain someone who’s intentions are to get away at any cost then you don’t have the experience to fully understand why they don’t what the do.

How forceful were you with police that an armed response was equal to the level of threat?

It's a long road, when you're on your own...

[Ammi]

...it would be nice to clarify one last time that not one single forum member has in any way exonerated anyone from anything...the focus of the debate is the exact same focus as the IOPC have in looking at the force that was used and whether it was appropriate...the Deputy Police Commissioner found it ‘extremely disturbing’ enough to make a suspension and begin an inquiry...and that was after having examined all bodycam footage closely...that is not exoneration, that is proper and appropriate policing which is something to be proud of, that we have that...that no one is above the law and everyone has accountability...

[The Slim Reaper]

Sheriff when the cops tell him the road he wants to drive down is closed.

https://media1.tenor.com/images/c87552a67d72036c1836caca93600069/tenor.gif?itemid=9042639

[Ammi]

....pffffft at needing a weapon...was it Lisa from Big Brother who said she could kill someone with two fingers...

[Oliver_W]

Is a knee resting on the neck part of police training at all? I can't imagine it is, apart from very drastic circumstances, but when it happens at least twice in a fairly short amount of time ...

If it is, police should be taught better restraining methods, and it's obviously right that this bobby was put on suspension.

[Ammi]

Is a knee resting on the neck part of police training at all? I can't imagine it is, apart from very drastic circumstances, but when it happens at least twice in a fairly short amount of time ...

If it is, police should be taught better restraining methods, and it's obviously right that this bobby was put on suspension.

...exactly, the aim of the police and of the public is for the best force they can be and that can only happen when any issues are identified and addressed in the way that is happening here...

[joeysteele]

...it would be nice to clarify one last time that not one single forum member has in any way exonerated anyone from anything...the focus of the debate is the exact same focus as the IOPC have in looking at the force that was used and whether it was appropriate...the Deputy Police Commissioner found it ‘extremely disturbing’ enough to make a suspension and begin an inquiry...and that was after having examined all bodycam footage closely...that is not exoneration, that is proper and appropriate policing which is something to be proud of, that we have that...that no one is above the law and everyone has accountability...

Not one person has exonerated the guy arrested for anything.
Exactly right.

There's been what ifs, as to had he'd used the knife despite him not doing so.
It is a crime anyway to just be carrying a knife.

What if too.
Had the police ended up killing him on arrest as with George Floyd.

In accusing others of exonerating the criminal with the knife,is that indicating had a George Floyd happened.
That would have been within our law and justice.
Therefore acceptable.

Because it certainly would not be.

[rusticgal]

The good news for Sheriff is he can now escalate to carrying a weapon and if the police so much as lay a finger in the wrong place during his arrest, he will be exonerated by some of his fellow Tibbers :hehe:


:joker:

[Tom4784]

You literally did the exact same thing :skull:

Except I didn't, I already said that I mentioned that officers are not allowed to hit someone in the head or neck with a baton for context as to why leaning on someone's neck or head is considered off-limits. This is what's called context for my argument and if you think that's the same as 'well, he could have murdered multiple people so an officer breaking protocol is perfectly okay because of that situation that didn't happen' then you need to improve your reading skills.

Ignoring that I've already proven your point to be a **** one doesn't make it any less ****.

[Tom4784]

They haven’t just grabbed some innocent guy and threw him on the the ground.

Actions create reactions.

Stop defending criminals.

Spend less time trying to be an 'ard man online and more time improving your reading capabilities because you're responding to something I haven't said.

[caprimint]

The good news for Sheriff is he can now escalate to carrying a weapon and if the police so much as lay a finger in the wrong place during his arrest, he will be exonerated by some of his fellow Tibbers :hehe:
nooooooooo lmao :skull:

[caprimint]

...it would be nice to clarify one last time that not one single forum member has in any way exonerated anyone from anything...the focus of the debate is the exact same focus as the IOPC have in looking at the force that was used and whether it was appropriate...the Deputy Police Commissioner found it ‘extremely disturbing’ enough to make a suspension and begin an inquiry...and that was after having examined all bodycam footage closely...that is not exoneration, that is proper and appropriate policing which is something to be proud of, that we have that...that no one is above the law and everyone has accountability...
Tbh Ammi I'm pretty sure that the majority of us saying this are aware that police could be better trained/use more appropriate ways of dealing with situations, but I think we would also prefer police using ways like this to deal with criminals whether they have done anything or not at that moment in time, because that is absolutely irrelevant and besides the point. Nobody carries a knife "for the fun of it".

There was recently a stabbing just a few roads down from where I used to live... and all I'm saying is that if the police caught that man and stopped him IN ANY WAY I would have been happy about it. I honestly don't care if the "action didn't look appropriate" if they had stopped a crime from happening or, an innocent man from getting stabbed and killed...

[caprimint]

Except I didn't, I already said that I mentioned that officers are not allowed to hit someone in the head or neck with a baton for context as to why leaning on someone's neck or head is considered off-limits. This is what's called context for my argument and if you think that's the same as 'well, he could have murdered multiple people so an officer breaking protocol is perfectly okay because of that situation that didn't happen' then you need to improve your reading skills.

Ignoring that I've already proven your point to be a **** one doesn't make it any less ****.
Lmao tbh Dezzy I just highlighted the fact before that you said you were "against hypotheticals". I don't even disagree, but I really don't think it's THAT insane to imagine that somebody carrying a knife, in the streets of London, could stab someone? It literally happens on a daily basis unfortunately and this man could have/would have most likely added to that and it's so important he was stopped before it was too late and he actually harmed/killed someone.

[The Slim Reaper]

Tbh Ammi I'm pretty sure that the majority of us saying this are aware that police could be better trained/use more appropriate ways of dealing with situations, but I think we would also prefer police using ways like this to deal with criminals whether they have done anything or not at that moment in time, because that is absolutely irrelevant and besides the point. Nobody carries a knife "for the fun of it".

There was recently a stabbing just a few roads down from where I used to live... and all I'm saying is that if the police caught that man and stopped him IN ANY WAY I would have been happy about it. I honestly don't care if the "action didn't look appropriate" if they had stopped a crime from happening or, an innocent man from getting stabbed and killed...

Then why constantly mischaracterize the discussion?

[caprimint]

Then why constantly mischaracterize the discussion?
Why, because you wanted to make a thread to give people more chance to trash the police?

You tried to create the discussion you wanted to happen, but it's good that people have seen past that and are discussing the events that happened to cause your thread to even be relevant.

[The Slim Reaper]

Why, because you wanted to make a thread to give people more chance to trash the police?

You tried to create the discussion you wanted to happen, but it's good that people have seen past that and are discussing the events that happened to cause your thread to even be relevant.

:joker:

Wait, the reason you're giving for mischaracterizing the discussion is me? You're a parody of yourself now.

[Tom4784]

Lmao tbh Dezzy I just highlighted the fact before that you said you were "against hypotheticals". I don't even disagree, but I really don't think it's THAT insane to imagine that somebody carrying a knife, in the streets of London, could stab someone? It literally happens on a daily basis unfortunately and this man could have/would have most likely added to that and it's so important he was stopped before it was too late and he actually harmed/killed someone.

But, at the end of the day that didn't happen and he was already apprehended when the officer knelt on his neck. The whole point is that the officer didn't stick to protocol and the detainee in question ultimately doesn't change that fact.

People can focus on the detainee all they want but they're missing the point if they do that. You can't kneel on people's necks or heads, officers are supposed to be trained not to do so and when you try to sweep stuff like this under the table, how long before it's normalised? Before it's done to someone who can't be painted as a mass murderer in waiting? How long before such actions kill a person?

You've got to nip that kind of behaviour in the bud or it will grow and this story will be a reminder for other officers to stick to their training.

[caprimint]

:joker:

Wait, the reason you're giving for mischaracterizing the discussion is me? You're a parody of yourself now.
Somebody used that line on Livia a while ago too, get some creativity. :(

[Tom4784]

Why, because you wanted to make a thread to give people more chance to trash the police?

You tried to create the discussion you wanted to happen, but it's good that people have seen past that and are discussing the events that happened to cause your thread to even be relevant.

People should take the police to task when they do wrong, when the police makes mistakes, it puts peoples' lives in danger.

[The Slim Reaper]

Somebody used that line on Livia a while ago too, get some creativity. :(

:joker:

Why are you so obsessed with me and not the discussion? Seems a bit creepy. :smug:

[caprimint]

:joker:

Why are you so obsessed with me and not the discussion? Seems a bit creepy. :smug:
You speak about me in threads all the time, don't try the "creepy" line on me when I never even acknowledged you before :skull:

[Ammi]

...’in any way’ though is neither appropriate or acceptable...’in any way’ doesn’t instill any confidence from our public in our police force ...jobs in general can’t be done in any way that’s preferable to us...they have to follow protocol and procedure given and they have to follow training...if I restrained someone/a child...and didn’t follow the correct training methods to do so..?...then my actions would be subject to scrutiny and I’d be rightly answerable and be suspended as well, while the incident was looked into...it’s exactly the same for a police officer and that’s something we should all be on board with because their jobs come with such power and control and we have to be confident that, that power and control is not open to abuse...above all other people, the people who we look to, to uphold the law are the law themselves...and it can’t leave open for instance any way’ as an officer pleases, it must follow the training given because it’s too important not to...

[The Slim Reaper]

You speak about me in threads all the time, don't try the "creepy" line on me when I never even acknowledged you before :skull:

Well both of those things aren't true, but lying is what you do best I guess.

[caprimint]

Well both of those things aren't true, but lying is what you do best I guess.
:joker:

Again, another line that you like to say to Livia. You must have copy pasted this **** by now.

[Ammi]

...why is Livia/another member relevant to the thread topic in any way...sorry I’m new here, I mistakingly thought this was an actual discussion and not just a targeting/baiting of specific members...carry on, I’ll try not to make that mistake again when considering joining a thread...

[The Slim Reaper]

:joker:

Again, another line that you like to say to Livia. You must have copy pasted this **** by now.


What on earth does Livia have to do with this conversation? I asked you a question about a specific post you wrote in this thread, and your replies have been unhinged. I'm here for it though.

[The Slim Reaper]

...why is Livia/another member relevant to the thread topic in any way...sorry I’m new here, I mistakingly thought this was an actual discussion and not just a targeting/baiting of specific members...carry on, I’ll try not to make that mistake again when considering joining a thread...

She isn't, apart from capri thinking that will hold sway, or add weight to the nonsense being spewed. It's sad when you think about it.

[caprimint]

...why is Livia/another member relevant to the thread topic in any way...sorry I’m new here, I mistakingly thought this was an actual discussion and not just a targeting/baiting of specific members...carry on, I’ll try not to make that mistake again when considering joining a thread...
Eh I guess you haven't noticed that she gets ganged up on in every thread lately & I've even seen some of the EXACT same responses Slim wrote to me, as he did to her. :skull:

He spoke about me first so he can sure as hell carry it on, if he wants to.

What on earth does Livia have to do with this conversation? I asked you a question about a specific post you wrote in this thread, and your replies have been unhinged. I'm here for it though.
I'm pointing out your biased and unfair replies to people that you don't agree with.

Stop talking about "lying" or myself... and keep to the topic, which you seem to find very difficult to do. And you have done it in multiple threads over time, it's not exactly authentic or fun for anyone.

[The Slim Reaper]

Eh I guess you haven't noticed that she gets ganged up on in every thread lately & I've even seen some of the EXACT same responses Slim wrote to me, as he did to her. :skull:

He spoke about me first so he can sure as hell carry it on, if he wants to.


I'm pointing out your biased and unfair replies to people that you don't agree with.

Stop talking about "lying" or myself... and keep to the topic, which you seem to find very difficult to do. And you have done it in multiple threads over time, it's not exactly authentic or fun for anyone.

You're pointing out nothing but making yourself look a bit weird, obsessed, and crazy. I asked you a valid question about a post you wrote, and the results are there for everyone to see. You tried to attack me the other day for no reason, so this pretense that I'm attacking you is again, easily disproved.

Anyway, this thread is about a serious topic, not your hurt feelings, and it's obvious you either don't wish to answer the question I posed, or you are unable. Either way, it needs to get back to the topic now.

[Ammi]

...okay, I wasn’t going to say anymore but I’m going to...I’ve known Slim for a long time and we’re quite close, as he is with other female members ..I’ve also known him on another site off this forum...and I have never for one moment known him to be in any way inappropriate in anything he says, he has extremely fine moral standards and is very respectful always...I did see the thread that was made and I know exactly to what that text referred because Liv and I were both made aware of certain things at the time...so she does know as well, that it would have been a joke based on somethings another member had said/was saying...I find it despicable that certain accusations have been allowed against two members and it sickens me that it’s by someone that I felt I knew ...but as it turns out, apparently I didn’t know that person at all who is filled with relentless hateful spite...

[The Slim Reaper]

...okay, I wasn’t going to say anymore but I’m going to...I’ve known Slim for a long time and we’re quite close, as he is with other female members ..I’ve also known him on another site off this forum...and I have never for one moment known him to be in any way inappropriate in anything he says, he has extremely fine moral standards and is very respectful always...I did see the thread that was made and I know exactly to what that text referred because Liv and I were both made aware of certain things at the time...so she does know as well, that it would have been a joke based on somethings another member had said/was saying...I find it despicable that certain accusations have been allowed against two members and it sickens me that it’s by someone that I felt I knew ...but as it turns out, apparently I didn’t know that person at all who is filled with hateful spite...

I really appreciate the sentiment Ammi, but let them reveal who they are. The more often they do it, the bigger chance that James/Josy will eventually have to deal with the constant stream of insults and innuendo that comes not just mine or dezzys way, but J/J's way too.

[caprimint]

...okay, I wasn’t going to say anymore but I’m going to...I’ve known Slim for a long time and we’re quite close, as he is with other female members ..I’ve also known him on another site off this forum...and I have never for one moment known him to be in any way inappropriate in anything he says, he has extremely fine moral standards and is very respectful always...I did see the thread that was made and I know exactly to what that text referred because Liv and I were both made aware of certain things at the time...so she does know as well, that it would have been a joke based on somethings another member had said/was saying...I find it despicable that certain accusations have been allowed against two members and it sickens me that it’s by someone that I felt I knew ...but as it turns out, apparently I didn’t know that person at all who is filled with relentless hateful spite...
:joker:

My god... I'm not even really interested in what happened between y'all but all I DO know is that regardless of what happened in previous PM's, other forums, or threads... is that Livia has been targeted a LOT and it's tragic to see by the exact same members for a whole bunch of the time and has been manipulated by certain people here.

You might not be part of any "group" like people suggest, but you sure as hell fit in pretty damn well, from what I've seen too. Anyone who disagrees here is "cancelled" if we weren't already, but do let us carry on... :spin2:

[Liam-]

Bad cops getting punished, you love to see it, I’m glad the professionals could see that what he did was wrong and proceeded accordingly

[Ammi]

...’like people suggest..’....as being portrayed by the targeting ‘gang’...yeah I’ve seen exactly the people who are being or have been ‘cancelled’ and it’s sickening how toxic this behaviour has become....I have nothing more to say, I believe you’ve just explained, Capri, ‘what people suggest’ about me and about others..you seem like a nice young lady, I’m sorry you’ve been encircled in this spitefulness and hate...

[Ammi]

...’like people suggest’ is a verification of targeting and bullying toward me, not that verification was required...

[The Slim Reaper]

Bad cops getting punished, you love to see it, I’m glad the professionals could see that what he did was wrong and proceeded accordingly

Yup, I agree.

[Cherie]

I wonder if anyone in the higher echelons of the force got suspended for the poor decision to send officers into Brixton without protective equipment to disperse an illegal party as it was deemed it would be too intimidating, or are unnecessary injuries to officers acceptable to the Deputy Commissioner

Bad cops getting punished, you love to see it, I’m glad the professionals could see that what he did was wrong and proceeded accordingly

Yup, I agree.

As a matter of interest do you two think the professionals involved in this decision should have been suspended given their mistake ended in junior officers being injured under their duty of care?

[thesheriff443]

Wow you must be really scary and impressive :flutter:

I’d kick your soft arse all round Scotland 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

[Cherie]

I’d kick your soft arse all round Scotland 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

:joker: I would pay to watch

[thesheriff443]

Spend less time trying to be an 'ard man online and more time improving your reading capabilities because you're responding to something I haven't said.

Spend more time in the gym then you might be able to lift more than a pen.