Can somebody please explain

[Smithy]

Why 16 year old Great Thunberg is a child and doesn’t know what she’s talking about but 15 year old Shamima Begum knew exactly what she was doing when she joined ISIS

[Mystic Mock]

I think both know what they're doing personally to some extent.

It's just that for me Shamima joined a Terrorist organisation that wanted to subjugate other countries into being exactly like them, where as Thunberg is harmless and has good ideals.

[Captain.Remy]

Both know what they are doing.

[The Slim Reaper]

There is an Irish isis bride that has been brought back and is on bail at the moment, so it's not like SB's situation doesn't have precedent.

[arista]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DzYrgjHWwAE3Mqt?format=jpg&name=900x900

From Feb 2019

[DouglasS]

Is the point of this thread to try and gather sympathy for an ISIS member, because if so, it’s not going to work

[Nicky91]

don't compare them pls

Greta is more a rich privileged elitist twat, she makes me laugh with her ''you stole my childhood'' comment, she has nothing to complain about, other activists with better more appropriate backgrounds can better stand up for climate, or scientists with actual data


Shamima is former isis, probably just left UK and joined them more like going through rebellious teenager phase, and she found out isis isn't the place for her, ok i would say if you are gonna allow her back in, first while under surveillance but i do think she just wants to get back into a normal life again with her husband

[The Slim Reaper]

don't compare them pls

Greta is more a rich privileged elitist twat, she makes me laugh with her ''you stole my childhood'' comment, she has nothing to complain about, other activists with better more appropriate backgrounds can better stand up for climate, or scientists with actual data


Shamima is former isis, probably just left UK and joined them more like going through rebellious teenager phase, and she found out isis isn't the place for her, ok i would say if you are gonna allow her back in, first while under surveillance but i do think she just wants to get back into a normal life again with her husband

Having more sympathy for the isis bride than than the environmental activist with autism, is quite the take.

[Marsh.]

don't compare them pls

Greta is more a rich privileged elitist twat, she makes me laugh with her ''you stole my childhood'' comment, she has nothing to complain about, other activists with better more appropriate backgrounds can better stand up for climate, or scientists with actual data


Shamima is former isis, probably just left UK and joined them more like going through rebellious teenager phase, and she found out isis isn't the place for her, ok i would say if you are gonna allow her back in, first while under surveillance but i do think she just wants to get back into a normal life again with her husband

:laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2:

[Smithy]

Is the point of this thread to try and gather sympathy for an ISIS member, because if so, it’s not going to work

No?

[Smithy]

don't compare them pls

Greta is more a rich privileged elitist twat, she makes me laugh with her ''you stole my childhood'' comment, she has nothing to complain about, other activists with better more appropriate backgrounds can better stand up for climate, or scientists with actual data


Shamima is former isis, probably just left UK and joined them more like going through rebellious teenager phase, and she found out isis isn't the place for her, ok i would say if you are gonna allow her back in, first while under surveillance but i do think she just wants to get back into a normal life again with her husband

Ffffff

[Nicky91]

Having more sympathy for the isis bride than than the environmental activist with autism, is quite the take.

it is good she cares about the environment, also of course not against her autism since i myself have that too

but she shouldn't have said things like ''stolen my childhood'' when there are millions of other children in the world, for example in africa who have it way worse than her, Greta who is from Sweden, one of best economy wise countries, daughter of an actor and opera singer, and granddaughter of another actor/director

[Niamh.]

Having more sympathy for the isis bride than than the environmental activist with autism, is quite the take.

:laugh:

[Marsh.]

it is good she cares about the environment, also of course not against her autism since i myself have that too

but she shouldn't have said things like ''stolen my childhood'' when there are millions of other children in the world, for example in africa who have it way worse than her, Greta who is from Sweden, one of best economy wise countries, daughter of an actor and opera singer, and granddaughter of another actor/director

The fact you're making such a bigger issue about one comment Greta made rather than.... you know, ISIS.

[Ramsay]

don't compare them pls

Greta is more a rich privileged elitist twat, she makes me laugh with her ''you stole my childhood'' comment, she has nothing to complain about, other activists with better more appropriate backgrounds can better stand up for climate, or scientists with actual data


Shamima is former isis, probably just left UK and joined them more like going through rebellious teenager phase, and she found out isis isn't the place for her, ok i would say if you are gonna allow her back in, first while under surveillance but i do think she just wants to get back into a normal life again with her husband

Good lord

[Niamh.]

Is the point of this thread to try and gather sympathy for an ISIS member, because if so, it’s not going to work

It's an interesting question. I really haven't seen anyone feel sorry Shamima though?

[The Slim Reaper]

it is good she cares about the environment, also of course not against her autism since i myself have that too

but she shouldn't have said things like ''stolen my childhood'' when there are millions of other children in the world, for example in africa who have it way worse than her, Greta who is from Sweden, one of best economy wise countries, daughter of an actor and opera singer, and granddaughter of another actor/director

The environmental argument directly affects those in Africa too, and much worse than others in more infrastructurally advanced countries, so Greta's cause is also the cause of the child in Africa.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Nicky exposing that climate fraud and showing his compassion for fellow humans

:clap1:

When will smiffy?

[Captain.Remy]

it is good she cares about the environment, also of course not against her autism since i myself have that too

but she shouldn't have said things like ''stolen my childhood'' when there are millions of other children in the world, for example in africa who have it way worse than her, Greta who is from Sweden, one of best economy wise countries, daughter of an actor and opera singer, and granddaughter of another actor/director

So are we never able to raise issues because people in Africa are starving?

Well you know what, let's ask the mods to shut this forum down then since to you it is useless to discuss anything because people have it worse elsewhere.

There are millions of other children in the world, yes that's true, but also so many issues like childhood slavery, hunger, sexual violence etc She chose to fight for the environment, and where she comes from doesn't matter. And it's not like her cause is not linked to others, specifically in developing countries.

[Dogeatdog]

don't compare them pls

Greta is more a rich privileged elitist twat, she makes me laugh with her ''you stole my childhood'' comment, she has nothing to complain about, other activists with better more appropriate backgrounds can better stand up for climate, or scientists with actual data


Shamima is former isis, probably just left UK and joined them more like going through rebellious teenager phase, and she found out isis isn't the place for her, ok i would say if you are gonna allow her back in, first while under surveillance but i do think she just wants to get back into a normal life again with her husband

Nah this is a wind up surely?? :laugh:

[Niamh.]

it is good she cares about the environment, also of course not against her autism since i myself have that too

but she shouldn't have said things like ''stolen my childhood'' when there are millions of other children in the world, for example in africa who have it way worse than her, Greta who is from Sweden, one of best economy wise countries, daughter of an actor and opera singer, and granddaughter of another actor/director

So rich people aren't allowed to worry about the planet they live on?

Someone is always going to have to worse, if that was a reason to not care about causes then nobody would do anything ever

[Marsh.]

Omg I completely missed the "joining a terrorist group" being called teenage rebellion. Whatever happened to drinking cider and smoking?

[Captain.Remy]

Omg I completely missed the "joining a terrorist group" being called teenage rebellion. Whatever happened to drinking cider and smoking?

I can't even imagine parents saying : "My son is going through some phase, he's a bit rebellious at the moment. Just like week he joined ISIS. As long as school grades don't sink, his dad and I are not too worried. It's a just phase every teenager goes through. And we can't keep following him around, he's becoming more and more independent." :skull:

[Niamh.]

I can't even imagine parents saying : "My son is going through some phase, he's a bit rebellious at the moment. Just like week he joined ISIS. As long as school grades don't sink, his dad and I are not too worried. It's a just phase every teenager goes through. And we can't keep following him around, he's becoming more and more independent." :skull:

:laugh2:

[Dogeatdog]

I can't even imagine parents saying : "My son is going through some phase, he's a bit rebellious at the moment. Just like week he joined ISIS. As long as school grades don't sink, his dad and I are not too worried. It's a just phase every teenager goes through. And we can't keep following him around, he's becoming more and more independent." :skull:

:joker:

[LukeB]

I can't even imagine parents saying : "My son is going through some phase, he's a bit rebellious at the moment. Just like week he joined ISIS. As long as school grades don't sink, his dad and I are not too worried. It's a just phase every teenager goes through. And we can't keep following him around, he's becoming more and more independent." :skull:

:joker:

[caprimint]

Nicky exposing that climate fraud and showing his compassion for fellow humans

:clap1:

When will smiffy?
lmao

[Cherie]

Why 16 year old Great Thunberg is a child and doesn’t know what she’s talking about but 15 year old Shamima Begum knew exactly what she was doing when she joined ISIS

you could also argue it the other way around, so it doesn't really work an an analogy :shrug:

[Marsh.]

you could also argue it the other way around, so it doesn't really work an an analogy :shrug:

It's not an analogy.

[Cherie]

It's not an analogy.

well whatever you want to call it is fine by me

Listen to Greta she knows everything

Shamima was just a child....
:laugh:

[Tom4784]

There is an uncomfortable truth that Shamima Begum was likely groomed into leaving and then probably abused for years when she arrived. It's difficult to have a lot of sympathy which is strange to say for a victim of abuse simply because of the group she's apart of but... yeah. It's an awkward one.

Greta Thunberg tells people what they don't want to hear and those kinds of people love their delusions too much and have too big of an ego to stand being brought back to reality by a teenager.

I do think racism plays a part as well, It makes me wonder if Shamima would be viewed more sympathetically if she was white.

[Marsh.]

well whatever you want to call it is fine by me

Listen to Greta she knows everything

Shamima was just a child....
:laugh:

I don't think he meant whether Greta "knows everything" but about them knowing their own mind enough to be doing what they're purely out of their own choice and not through coercion etc. Since there's a debate about that around both girls.

[Oliver_W]

I'm all for Greta. To an adult eye she might come off as naive with a comical accent, but younger people really listen to her. If she scares people into actually doing something for the environment, then great!

Groomed or not, Begum has not once shown an ounce of regret for running away to ISIS. She's old enough to know better now, so why should anyone care about her?

[bots]

they both have conviction and are both naive so i would say they are alike in some respects

[Nicky91]

ok but Shamima anyway faced reality the hard way that the isis group is evil, wrong, which now explains she is a former member of that

[Oliver_W]

ok but Shamima anyway faced reality the hard way that the isis group is evil, wrong, which now explains she is a former member of that

... So now we're waiting for Greta to realise that caring for environment is evil and wrong?

[Nicky91]

... So now we're waiting for Greta to realise that caring for environment is evil and wrong?

no, caring for environment is good


what i more mean to say is, while it is good that Greta cares about environment, scientists and other more experienced environmental activists would have more of an impact, with scientific evidence, information

so tbh Greta needs more people (especially those groups whom i mentioned) behind her in this cause, only then she can achieve something

think i am being misunderstood, because all i was against was her mentioning they stole her childhood which isn't true, since not all children have some of same privileges what she has

[Captain.Remy]

no, caring for environment is good


what i more mean to say is, while it is good that Greta cares about environment, scientists and other more experienced environmental activists would have more of an impact, with scientific evidence, information

so tbh Greta needs more people (especially those groups whom i mentioned) behind her in this cause, only then she can achieve something

think i am being misunderstood, because all i was against was her mentioning they stole her childhood which isn't true, since not all children have some of same privileges what she has

She is backed by tons of scientists and professionals and politicians.
What she did with her strike has never been done before. And of course she would use such punchlines to make people think and/or scared, that's exactly how this works if you want to make an impact. Scientists are not considered (unfortunately) as public figures, hence why you have celebrities or politicians campaigning to raise funds etc
She's the face of that movement and tbh that was frankly needed.

And you don't know if her childhood was robbed or not, that's not our position to say. And that's to be put into context also. She know what's she doing.

[Niamh.]

She is backed by tons of scientists and professionals and politicians.
What she did with her strike has never been done before. And of course she would use such punchlines to make people think and/or scared, that's exactly how this works if you want to make an impact. Scientists are not considered (unfortunately) as public figures, hence why you have celebrities or politicians campaigning to raise funds etc
She's the face of that movement and tbh that was frankly needed.

And you don't know if her childhood was robbed or not, that's not our position to say. And that's to be put into context also. She know what's she doing.

What I understood her to mean by that was she felt she had to mentally grow up faster and worry about things she shouldn't have had to worry about

[joeysteele]

I think both know what they're doing personally to some extent.

It's just that for me Shamima joined a Terrorist organisation that wanted to subjugate other countries into being exactly like them, where as Thunberg is harmless and has good ideals.

Absolutely.

I'd agree completely here, unsurprisingly.

Although I do find it difficult I admit, to have much sympathy for anyone, even thinking of, never mind travelling to have anything to do with IS.
Even then regretting it.

I'm afraid the cynic in me would have me wondering had they really changed their view.

Whereas, I'm pretty sure Greta will not change hers, which is something to benefit the human race and the planet.
Not destroy.

[Cherie]

I don't think he meant whether Greta "knows everything" but about them knowing their own mind enough to be doing what they're purely out of their own choice and not through coercion etc. Since there's a debate about that around both girls.

jeez you taking everything as read today Marsh, no one knows everything, its just a turn of phrase

[Captain.Remy]

What I understood her to mean by that was she felt she had to mentally grow up faster and worry about things she shouldn't have had to worry about

That's what I understood from her also. And she's right, a pre-teenager/teenager should not have, in theory, to worry about those issues that adults should have taken care of for generations prior.

[Oliver_W]

I'm afraid the cynic in me would have me wondering had they really changed their view.



Last I heard, Begum hasn't even pretended to have changed her view. She doesn't regret joining ISIS, and wants to come home because the caliphate is pretty much finished.

[Nicky91]

She is backed by tons of scientists and professionals and politicians.
What she did with her strike has never been done before. And of course she would use such punchlines to make people think and/or scared, that's exactly how this works if you want to make an impact. Scientists are not considered (unfortunately) as public figures, hence why you have celebrities or politicians campaigning to raise funds etc
She's the face of that movement and tbh that was frankly needed.

And you don't know if her childhood was robbed or not, that's not our position to say. And that's to be put into context also. She know what's she doing.

oh ok, that does make sense indeed


Morgan Freeman should add to the campaign too, he's soo good at these sort of things, he can talk so well, yet also with loads of charisma :love:

[Denver]

I think with Shamima she is now an adult and has shown no remorse for her actions if she was still a child I'd say let her back but she is a grown ass woman who is a danger to the country

[Nicky91]

I think with Shamima she is now an adult and has shown no remorse for her actions if she was still a child I'd say let her back but she is a grown ass woman who is a danger to the country

:umm2: she has no connections to isis anymore though

but if you guys don't want her back, let her come to Netherlands, some of our refugee camps/homes are quite nice, and most in there are very social with each other, a real community that is becoming, i think Shamima and her husband would fit in well there, and she is allowed to come to my country since her husband is dutch

[Oliver_W]

Regarding the "stolen childhood" thing ...

It's easy to say that the child of two minor celebrities growing up in the modern western world has virtually nothing to moan about. But any kid who grows up in the public eye has to grow up fast, tbh.
That kid who's in everything about the 80s lol, I people were moaning on twitter because he wouldn't speak to fans outside a hotel? It's like, he's 13, leave him alone.

[Smithy]

I think with Shamima she is now an adult and has shown no remorse for her actions if she was still a child I'd say let her back but she is a grown ass woman who is a danger to the country

Yes she has?

[Denver]

Yes she has?

I'm sorry but that half hearted apology while saying she wants to live in the UK with her husband is not acceptable.

If we are bringing terrorists back then bring them back with life in prison with no chance of parole

[Oliver_W]

Yes she has?

When? The only regret I've heard her express is that she spoke to the media about her intention to return home.

[hijaxers]

don't compare them pls

Greta is more a rich privileged elitist twat, she makes me laugh with her ''you stole my childhood'' comment, she has nothing to complain about, other activists with better more appropriate backgrounds can better stand up for climate, or scientists with actual data


Shamima is former isis, probably just left UK and joined them more like going through rebellious teenager phase, and she found out isis isn't the place for her, ok i would say if you are gonna allow her back in, first while under surveillance but i do think she just wants to get back into a normal life again with her husband

Normal life with her husband !!! i don't think so jail is where she belongs.

[Denver]

Why is Nicky being a isis sympathiser though?

[Babayaro.]

don't compare them pls

Greta is more a rich privileged elitist twat, she makes me laugh with her ''you stole my childhood'' comment, she has nothing to complain about, other activists with better more appropriate backgrounds can better stand up for climate, or scientists with actual data


Shamima is former isis, probably just left UK and joined them more like going through rebellious teenager phase, and she found out isis isn't the place for her, ok i would say if you are gonna allow her back in, first while under surveillance but i do think she just wants to get back into a normal life again with her husband

CAH! Not the rebellious teen phase :skull:

[MTVN]

Here for a Nicky91 global affairs podcast

[Oliver_W]

If she was going through an edgy rebellious teenage phase, for her household it'd probably involve having her hair and ankles on display while eating bacon, not running away to join a murderous cult.

[Marsh.]

jeez you taking everything as read today Marsh, no one knows everything, its just a turn of phrase

It's ok to be wrong Cherie, you don't have to make it my problem.

[Cherie]

It's ok to be wrong Cherie, you don't have to make it my problem.

:joker:

[Mitchell]

don't compare them pls

Greta is more a rich privileged elitist twat, she makes me laugh with her ''you stole my childhood'' comment, she has nothing to complain about, other activists with better more appropriate backgrounds can better stand up for climate, or scientists with actual data


Shamima is former isis, probably just left UK and joined them more like going through rebellious teenager phase, and she found out isis isn't the place for her, ok i would say if you are gonna allow her back in, first while under surveillance but i do think she just wants to get back into a normal life again with her husband

That’s enough Internet for one day...

[Mitchell]

:umm2: she has no connections to isis anymore though

but if you guys don't want her back, let her come to Netherlands, some of our refugee camps/homes are quite nice, and most in there are very social with each other, a real community that is becoming, i think Shamima and her husband would fit in well there, and she is allowed to come to my country since her husband is dutch

Not Nicky’s new neighbours

[Denver]

Not Nicky’s new neighbours

Not when his mum use to shout at the immigrant children playing outside :skull:

[Ross.]

CAH! Not the rebellious teen phase :skull:

Screaming

[Tom4784]

I think with Shamima she is now an adult and has shown no remorse for her actions if she was still a child I'd say let her back but she is a grown ass woman who is a danger to the country

It's not really an issue of 'should we let her come back?'. She's a UK citizen living illegally in Iraq and we don't really have much choice taking her back.

Just imagine if an Iraqi terrorist was living illegally in the UK and Iraq were like 'no, you keep her, we don't want her back.' The outrage would be ridiculous yet we expect Iraq to be okay with just that.

We can't revoke her citizenship, the appeals will go in her favour because she doesn't have citizenship elsewhere. We've just got to hope that she faces consequences for her actions and that she can be deradicalised.

[Mitchell]

Not when his mum use to shout at the immigrant children playing outside :skull:

Hope he’s got enough room for a rhino

[rusticgal]

It's an interesting question. I really haven't seen anyone feel sorry Shamima though?


Until today on this thread :laugh:

[Niamh.]

Until today on this thread [emoji23]Excluding Nicky :skull:

[Conzors]

You cant really compare the two...

... one is a potential terrorist with instructions. Shes already been brainwashed once, who's to say she still isnt.

... one is a young person with views and intelligence beyond her age and doesnt know how to the right way to express them yet.

I know what one i'd give a pass to.

[user104658]

It's an interesting question. I really haven't seen anyone feel sorry Shamima though?

I do feel sorry for her, as I feel sorry for anyone who has been radicalised, the "footsoldiers" of all brands of terrorism. Calling it a choice in any situation misunderstands and really underestimates what radicalisation is... in fact it's important that we DON'T start dismissing it as having an element of choice, because that leads to complacency. Also, of course, important to remember than a lot of the leaders of these groups are not truly radicalised at all and know exactly what they're doing in recruiting young.

None of that, of course, negates the fact that a radicalised individual is dangerous ... but I don't think they're mutually exclusive things. You can feel sorry for a dangerous individual whilst acknowledging that it's not safe to allow them freedom.


There is also of course the fact that an awful lot of (not very clever) people don't actually understand what "terrorist sympathiser" means. Feeling sorry for an individual who has been twisted and radicalised has nothing to do with being a terrorist sympathiser. It doesn't mean "having sympathy for someone who is a terrorist". It means having sympathy for the cause or beliefs of terrorists, which is obviously a completely different thing.

[Marsh.]

:joker:

:smug:

[Jigs]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DzYrgjHWwAE3Mqt?format=jpg&name=900x900

From Feb 2019

afjkfjkssfjk What is this the 1990s?

[Ammi]

...I think that we have to look at their differences, not any similarities because the similarities would be quite vague, surely...they’re both female and around a similar age but the course of their lives is entirely different...I know it’s a complete simplification but one mindset is motivated by the preservation of life, the other mindset has been radicalised into placing little value on...

[Nicky91]

i do not sympathize for isis, nor for any terrorist group


also she should not go to jail


so yeah if you guys in UK do not want her, i hope we in Netherlands will take her in

[Ammi]

...how can it ever work her regaining her citizenship and residing here...how can she ever be protected from the ‘hate’ she’ll receive, she’s such a recognisable person...and she’ll be hounded every moment/every second...

[Captain.Remy]

i do not sympathize for isis, nor for any terrorist group


also she should not go to jail


so yeah if you guys in UK do not want her, i hope we in Netherlands will take her in

Your dear conservative Prime Minister Mark Rutte who negotiated a grand coalition with the Christen-Democratisch Appèl (Christian Union) would never allow it.

And yes, she should go to jail. wtf are you on about.

[Livia]

People imagine Begum is still a UK citizen. She is not. Begum has been stripped of her UK citizenship. She's appealing against it and a judge has said she should be able to return to the UK to be able to pursue an effective appeal. But right now, she is not a UK citizen.

The only people who listen to Greta are other teenagers and self-flagellating liberals. She's a rather plain teenager with famous parents. That doesn't give her any special insight into global warming. I, and I'm sure a lot of people on here, take global warming seriously and kind of resent being lectured by a child.

18 is the age of majority. From time to time it's discussed that we should allow 16 year olds to vote. I personally don't believe that is correct. People would be shocked if we started locking up 16 year olds in grown up prison. If you're old enough for one, you're old enough for the other.

[Oliver_W]

Whether or not Begum should be allowed to return,why should it be paid for?

If she wants to come back, she can either buy a plane ticket, or follow the same route other migrants from that part of the world do. She doesn't an easy life.

[GoldHeart]

Why are they even being compared ??! :facepalm: .

One is a positive voice for this generation and the other is a terrorist sympathiser that joined Isis

[Livia]

Why are they even being compared ??! :facepalm: .

One is a positive voice for this generation and the other is a terrorist sympathiser that joined Isis

Because they're both teenagers - or were when they attracted notoriety.

That's what I got from the OP.

[Ammi]

...I wouldn’t describe the inspiration that Greta is to many young people as notoriety...the awareness she has given is very positive...

[Tom4784]

Imagine feeling so threatened by a teenager, you have to refer to her looks as plain to make yourself feel superior.