Kubrick, in the end, was too controlling, “too brutal” :Malcolm McDowell

[arista]

[Kubrick, in the end, was too controlling, “too brutal”,
to properly bond with. But he adored Anderson
and was great friends with Robert Altman.
Those were his giants.
Maybe there are others still out there.
From time to time he will overhear his sons
discussing new directors they love;
artists who seem to share the same bold
and freewheeling style.
“But I’m an old fossil these days. So I sit still and stay quiet.”]


[You can see him in Stanley Kubrick’s A Clockwork Orange,
hanging with his droogs at the Korova milk-bar,
making up his rassoodock what to do with the night.
The sky was the limit. The world was his oyster.
One felt he could achieve pretty much anything.]

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2020/jul/17/malcolm-mcdowell-i-have-no-memory-of-doing-most-of-my-films




I am glad Director Kubrick was Brutal
he got the best out of that young actor

This Film is a Masterpiece


[The film was a box-office success grossing
more than $26 million in the
United States and Canada on a budget of $2.2 million.]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Clockwork_Orange_(film)

[Tom4784]

Kubrick was a **** and I hope he's resting in piss. He destroyed Shelley Duvall and was, by all accounts, an abusive piece of **** that would be blacklisted and hated if he was around today.

Don't be glad about abuse, Arista. Abusing someone isn't worth it to get a 'good' performance out of them.

[arista]

Kubrick was a **** and I hope he's resting in piss. He destroyed Shelley Duvall and was, by all accounts, an abusive piece of **** that would be blacklisted and hated if he was around today.

Don't be glad about abuse, Arista. Abusing someone isn't worth it to get a 'good' performance out of them.

This thread is about a Top Movie of 1971
Not about the Shinning (1980)
you could make a thread of that great 1980 film.


Its a Young Actor getting paid
Kubrick was a Genius


Feel The Force


https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/enduring-genius-stanley-kubrick-1113502

[user104658]

I saw "Eyes Wide Shut" for the first time last week and it was not what I was expecting AT ALL. A load of misogynistic drivel and wee Tom Criuse being lead around by the hand looking like Draco Malfoy at his first Death Eaters orgy.

I'm really not convinced he was any sort of genius at all. I remember Clockwork Orange well, though I haven't seen it in years, and let's face it... It gained notoriety based on controversy because it was considered "shocking" for its time.

[arista]

I saw "Eyes Wide Shut" for the first time last week and it was not what I was expecting AT ALL. A load of misogynistic drivel and wee Tom Criuse being lead around by the hand looking like Draco Malfoy at his first Death Eaters orgy.

I'm really not convinced he was any sort of genius at all. I remember Clockwork Orange well, though I haven't seen it in years, and let's face it... It gained notoriety based on controversy because it was considered "shocking" for its time.


Yes early USA Cinema 1971
edited the sex rape scenes.


TS do not go to his last films (he was much older then)
he won Oscars
Film 2001,(made in 1968) for example

[Marsh.]

Yeah, Eyes Wide Shut is a lesson in style over substance imo.

[James]

He had a great run of films starting with the heist film, The Killing, in 1956.

I think the negative stories about him were mainly down to the fact that - outside of when he had a film to promote - he rarely give media interviews.

[arista]

He had a great run of films starting with the heist film, The Killing, in 1956.

I think the negative stories about him were mainly down to the fact that - outside of when he had a film to promote - he rarely give media interviews.


Yes he was wise
and Private.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filmography_and_awards_of_Stanley_Kubrick

[user104658]

Yeah, Eyes Wide Shut is a lesson in style over substance imo.To be fair, I think that statement could be applied to a lot of the "big name" directors, at least some of the time.

[Tony Montana]

He was a fantastic director but I could imagine he must've been a nightmare to work with. He must've drove Shelly Duvall insane as that's her genuine reaction in the ''Here's Johnny!'' scene. Kubrick shot that scene like 127 times. I would've quit after the first 5 takes. How the actors managed to keep their cool with him I'll never know.

[James]

Malcolm McDowell did a good interview quite recently on Mark Kermode's podcast. He has a lot of interesting stories about his career. It's worth a listen - https://play.acast.com/s/kermodeonfilm/-24-malcolmmcdowell

Listening to it again he says he had a good relationship with Stanley Kubrick.

[Oliver_W]

The Shining is brilliant and she gave a great performance, so he did something right!

[Niamh.]

The Shining is brilliant and she gave a great performance, so he did something right!He literally ****ed her up permanently, i don't think the film was worth that

[Ammi]

....these type of ‘genius’ people who are so controlling and brutal...with ‘methods’ that are so harrowing and quite terrifying...?...make me think of the JK Simmons character in Whiplash...(..can’t recall the character name atm...)...but yeah, totally ruthless and terrifying and damaging...

[hijaxers]

The Shining is brilliant and she gave a great performance, so he did something right!

I thought The Shiing was dreadful and all the actors mis-cast after reading the book.

[Marsh.]

Reminds me of Tippi Hedren saying she was treated awfully on the set of The Birds, especially during the attic scene, after she declined Hitchcock's advances.

[user104658]

I thought The Shiing was dreadful and all the actors mis-cast after reading the book.

100% agree - it's a decent horror film but it is an abysmal adaptation of the source material. Jack Nicholson played Jack as a bit mental/menacing/scary from the outset. Shelley Duvall played Wendy as timid/scared/anxious from the outset.

They're supposed to start off seeming relatively normal and then completely unravelling psychologically as time goes on...

...it's literally the entire point of the book. It's basically the whole story. And of course the other vital story beat is Jack's eventual "moment of clarity" that allows him to destroy the hotel (and himself along with it) ... which they changed in favour of a "creepier ending" for the film.

SO yeah to reiterate... it's a well made horror film but it's a really shockingly bad conversion of the book that completely misses the point.

[James]

I can't find anything online that really shows that Shelley Duvall's experience on the set of The Shining led to her later troubles with mental illness.

[Ammi]

...I don’t know if Kubrick’s treatment of her directly led to in any way, but it’s entirely possible that it could have been a significant trigger to the deterioration of her mental health...and it’s also possible that he could have chosen her because he saw an actress whose mental health could be exploited in the way he wanted the character to be and in the way that he did...I mean, ‘victims’ are often well chosen, aren’t they...he had insisted on Shelley when apparently she was less obvious to play the character as written in the book, it had been suggested, Jessica Lange as written the character had been much ‘tougher’ in the book... but he had changed the character completely to fit Shelley is what is being said...only he then had to create and not just when the camera was rolling...telling all of the cast to show her no sympathy when she broke down and making her feel isolated...to not see another human being but to only see ‘a performance’ or to see a fragile mental health that could be moulded into the performance he hoped for, whichever way his ‘method’....he really isn’t someone for me who could ever be admired in any way...

[Oliver_W]

I like Stephen King books but I've not read that one yet. I've also got the TV movie/mini series thing somewhere, still need to watch it.

[LaLaLand]

There’s a “The Shining” BTS video online I saw a while back that shows him being a complete twat with Shelley Duvall and she’s sitting there literally pulling her hair out in clumps from the stress of making that movie. You can’t help but wonder or even assume that this experience contributes to her current mental state. Poor woman.

(I absolutely love The Shining btw, there’s just something about it that deeply unsettles me no matter how many times I see it).

As for his other movies I’ve only properly seen A Clockwork Orange and Full Metal Jacket properly. I thought the former was brilliant but I lost interest in FMJ after “the shooting scene”.

[user104658]

I like Stephen King books but I've not read that one yet. I've also got the TV movie/mini series thing somewhere, still need to watch it.The TV movie is a much more faithful adaptation of the book and the characters are portrayed far more accurately. That said... It is a 90's TV movie and the budget and cinematography matches that. TV was really no rival to cinema back then, certainly not like it is now.

[James]

Quentin Tarantino was also accused of mistreating Uma Thurman during the filming of Kill Bill. He is still around though and could defend himself.

[Niamh.]

Quentin Tarantino was also accused of mistreating Uma Thurman during the filming of Kill Bill. He is still around though and could defend himself.

His daughter says that he deliberately bullied her on set as well

https://www.thevintagenews.com/2017/09/22/dont-sympathize-with-shelley-stanley-kubrick-showed-no-mercy-to-shelley-duvall-on-the-the-shining/#:~:text=As%20Vivian%20Kubrick%20has%20confirmed,' t%20sympathize%20with%20Shelley.%E2%80%9D

[James]

The TV movie is a much more faithful adaptation of the book and the characters are portrayed far more accurately. That said... It is a 90's TV movie and the budget and cinematography matches that. TV was really no rival to cinema back then, certainly not like it is now.

There's a new series in development called 'Overlook' produced by JJ Abrams company, said to be inspired by and featuring characters from The Shining.

https://collider.com/the-shining-tv-series-overlook-jj-abrams-hbo-max/

I haven't seen Doctor Sleep.

[Niamh.]

There's a new series in development called 'Overlook' produced by JJ Abrams company, said to be inspired by and featuring characters from The Shining.

https://collider.com/the-shining-tv-series-overlook-jj-abrams-hbo-max/

I haven't seen Doctor Sleep.

I really enjoyed that, I haven't read the books but it felt a lot different to the first film, like a totally different genre. I know Stephen King wasn't happy with the Shining (the film) so i wonder was Dr Sleep closer to his books

[arista]

...I don’t know if Kubrick’s treatment of her directly led to in any way, but it’s entirely possible that it could have been a significant trigger to the deterioration of her mental health...and it’s also possible that he could have chosen her because he saw an actress whose mental health could be exploited in the way he wanted the character to be and in the way that he did...I mean, ‘victims’ are often well chosen, aren’t they...he had insisted on Shelley when apparently she was less obvious to play the character as written in the book, it had been suggested, Jessica Lange as written the character had been much ‘tougher’ in the book... but he had changed the character completely to fit Shelley is what is being said...only he then had to create and not just when the camera was rolling...telling all of the cast to show her no sympathy when she broke down and making her feel isolated...to not see another human being but to only see ‘a performance’ or to see a fragile mental health that could be moulded into the performance he hoped for, whichever way his ‘method’....he really isn’t someone for me who could ever be admired in any way...


Yes later she had mental problems
and stopped acting.

[Ammi]

Thurman’s revelations about Weinstein’s abuse were horrific, but the way she was treated by Tarantino, Kill Bill’s director, is similarly gut-wrenching. Tarantino has been lauded for his work on Kill Bill, a series that absolutely embodies the empowerment of women. But what Thurman has revealed about the way Tarantino treated her while filming the movies undermines it.

It all stems from that infamous scene in which Thurman’s character is driving a blue convertible. She explained that a teamster had given her a heads up that the car wasn’t in great shape, so when Tarantino told her he wanted her to drive it herself instead of using a stunt driver, she objected.

“Quentin came in my trailer and didn’t like to hear no, like any director,” she said. “He was furious because I’d cost them a lot of time. But I was scared. He said: ‘I promise you the car is fine. It’s a straight piece of road. Hit 40 miles per hour or your hair won’t blow the right way and I’ll make you do it again.’ But that was a deathbox that I was in. The seat wasn’t screwed down properly. It was a sand road and it was not a straight road.”

Thurman ended up losing control of the car and crashing it into a tree. There’s footage from a camera mounted inside the car, and it’s pretty harrowing.

“The steering wheel was at my belly and my legs were jammed under me,” Thurman said, describing the moments just after the car crashed. “I felt this searing pain and thought, ‘Oh my God, I’m never going to walk again.’ When I came back from the hospital in a neck brace with my knees damaged and a large massive egg on my head and a concussion, I wanted to see the car and I was very upset. Quentin and I had an enormous fight, and I accused him of trying to kill me. And he was very angry at that, I guess understandably, because he didn’t feel he had tried to kill me.”

Thurman then detailed the process she had to go through to get Tarantino and Miramax, the studio funding the film, to admit any fault for her injuries, or even to allow her to see the footage of the accident. Miramax reportedly told Thurman she could have the footage if she signed a document “releasing them of any consequences of my future pain and suffering.” She chose not to.

Thurman says Tarantino’s dismissal of her continued as filming wrapped and they had to travel together to promote Kill Bill. “We were in a terrible fight for years. We had to then go through promoting the movies. It was all very thin ice. We had a fateful fight at Soho House in New York in 2004 and we were shouting at each other because he wouldn’t let me see the footage and he told me that was what they had all decided.”

For years, Thurman gave up on finding justice for the way Tarantino treated her. It was the #MeToo movement and the flood of allegations against Weinstein, forcing her to relive her own “dehumanization to the point of death” that inspired Thurman to pick up where she left off with Tarantino, trying to get him to give her the footage that showed the dangerous position he put her in.

“Quentin finally atoned by giving it to me after 15 years, right?” she said. “Not that it matters now, with my permanently damaged neck and my screwed-up knees… When they turned on me after the accident, I went from being a creative contributor and performer to being like a broken tool.”

The crash was just a turning point for Thurman, who had been mistreated by Tarantino without “feeling disempowered” for a long time. In the New York Times article, she notes that he acted as a stand-in for other actors during filming of some of Kill Bill‘s more sadistic scenes, like one where a man spit in her face, and another where he choked her with a chain. Thurman’s longtime friend and fellow actor, Jessica Chastain, weighed in to criticize Tarantino for that behavior. Her insight is dead-on.

[Ammi]

4v5NzLPi8WU

[James]

His daughter says that he deliberately bullied her on set as well

https://www.thevintagenews.com/2017/09/22/dont-sympathize-with-shelley-stanley-kubrick-showed-no-mercy-to-shelley-duvall-on-the-the-shining/#:~:text=As%20Vivian%20Kubrick%20has%20confirmed,' t%20sympathize%20with%20Shelley.%E2%80%9D

She filmed the behind-the-scenes but I don't think she said he bullied Shelley, like the article implies. Like I said before people who don't give media interviews can have things written about them that don't get corrected. I think that is how a false picture can be made over the years.

His daughter did criticise the TV psychologist Dr Phil for putting Shelley Duvall on his show, saying it was exploitative.

[Niamh.]

She filmed the behind-the-scenes but I don't think she said he bullied Shelley, like the article implies. Like I said before people who don't give media interviews can have things written about them that don't get corrected. I think that is how a false picture can be made over the years.

His daughter did criticise the TV psychologist Dr Phil for putting Shelley Duvall on his show, saying it was exploitative.

So do you think how he treated her has all been made up? Seems unlikely

https://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-news/how-shining-star-shelley-duvall-21615871

I haven't seen the Dr Phil interview but I had read about his daughter saying that about it

[hijaxers]

100% agree - it's a decent horror film but it is an abysmal adaptation of the source material. Jack Nicholson played Jack as a bit mental/menacing/scary from the outset. Shelley Duvall played Wendy as timid/scared/anxious from the outset.

They're supposed to start off seeming relatively normal and then completely unravelling psychologically as time goes on...

...it's literally the entire point of the book. It's basically the whole story. And of course the other vital story beat is Jack's eventual "moment of clarity" that allows him to destroy the hotel (and himself along with it) ... which they changed in favour of a "creepier ending" for the film.

SO yeah to reiterate... it's a well made horror film but it's a really shockingly bad conversion of the book that completely misses the point.

:clap1::clap1: Precisely TS

[Ammi]

...it’s quite curious that Kubrick’s daughter set up the Go Fund Me for Shelley’s mental healthcare after the Dr Phil show...when any form of psychiatry would be against her Scientology beliefs...

[Niamh.]

...it’s quite curious that Kubrick’s daughter set up the Go Fund Me for Shelley’s mental healthcare after the Dr Phil show...when any form of psychiatry would be against her Scientology beliefs...

Oh is she a Scientologist? Maybe she's trying to shift blame from her father or something. Odd

[Ammi]

Oh is she a Scientologist? Maybe she's trying to shift blame from her father or something. Odd

...yeah, I read she was a Scientologist...which is is why it’s curious that she set up the go fund me for mental healthcare for Shelley...something she wouldn’t have believed in..?...it does suggest that she may have felt ‘blame’ for her father as well...I don’t know, it’s just odd...

[James]

I just think it is a bit of stretch to link the filming of The Shining in 1979 to how Shelley Duvall appeared on the TV show in 2016. But it is not impossible.

[Tom4784]

Abuse can stick with someone for a lifetime and from what I've seen and heard from articles and such written about it, Kubrick basically tortured her mentally over a long shoot that lasted months.

Stanley Kubrick, by all accounts, was a ****ty human being.