A "black" paramilitary-style force marching in the streets of our caPITAL

[Crimson Dynamo]

worrying scenes

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2020/08/01/16/31447978-0-image-a-7_1596295112611.jpg

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2020/08/01/20/31453946-8583555-image-a-20_1596310080558.jpg

the extreme left were there

plus threats and chilling chants

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2020/08/01/16/31448732-0-image-a-15_1596295487922.jpg

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8583555/Dozens-protesters-aiming-lock-Brixton-march-London-streets.html

[Liam-]

Only terrifying if you’re scared of black people really

[Smithy]

Worrying that black people are marching peacefully through the streets?


Yikes you must have been terrified when the alt right March in London got violent the other week

[Liam-]

And they’re all wearing masks like sensible, responsible patriotic people, we have no choice but to stan

[Niamh.]

Chilling chants? [emoji38]

[Swan]

Only terrifying if you’re scared of black people really

Not really, terrifying we could be on the verge of a race 'war' because of the actions of a few ignorant people.

It should never have to come to this. Not in the UK.

[Moniqua]

they're completely in the right

[Liam-]

Not really, terrifying we could be on the verge of a race 'war' because of the actions of a few ignorant people.

It should never have to come to this. Not in the UK.

Well the racists only have themselves to blame, people are tired of their ****

[Swan]

they're completely in the right

Nobody is saying they're in the wrong though?

Well the racists only have themselves to blame, people are tired of their ****

The UK has come on leaps and bounds, we are going in the right direction, unlike the US which seems to be going backwards!

[thesheriff443]

Are they not auditioning for Britain’s got talent?

[Oliver_W]

Seeing unsanctioned people marching in kevlars is a bit threatening tbh

[Doogle]

Good for them.

[user104658]

It won't end well and is the wrong move. I understand their feeling but I'd be lying if I said otherwise.

[Oliver_W]

If only they put such efforts into tackling gang stuff in their communities. But apparently race-baiting is much more important...

[Livia]

If only they put such efforts into tackling gang stuff in their communities. But apparently race-baiting is much more important...

Seems so. And the line "supported by the extreme left" is no surprise.

My biggest laugh this week was Lewis Hamilton wearing a padlock around his neck to describe the black struggle.

While driving for Mercedes and regularly wearing Hugo Boss.

[Nicky91]

Seems so.

My biggest laugh this week was Lewis Hamilton wearing a padlock around his neck to describe the black struggle.

While driving for Mercedes and regularly wearing Hugo Boss.

Lewis is a driver for Mercedes, and he also has a sponsor contract with Hugo Boss

[Tom4784]

Imagine being scared of a protest about racial inequality. They weren't armed, they weren't violent, they were literally just chanting in costumes.

Do all the people who think this is terrifying, who act like this will cause a race war but not the generations of racial inequality, think the same about armed marches of white people invading government buildings in America or is that okay because white people aren't 'scary'?

[bots]

they are behaving in a threatening manner. If that's not grounds for concern I don't know what is

[Livia]

Lewis is a driver for Mercedes, and he also has a sponsor contract with Hugo Boss

I know. Mercedes... killed thousands of Jewish slaves. And only 70-80 years ago.

And Hugo Boss designed all the smart Nazi uniforms.


Hamilton is either a disgrace or a fool. The jury's out.

[Livia]

they are behaving in a threatening manner. If that's not grounds for concern I don't know what is

Apparently that's only if you're a racist and afraid of black people.

[Liam-]

they are behaving in a threatening manner. If that's not grounds for concern I don't know what is

‘Threatening’ by marching?

[Tom4784]

Marching peacefully, and unarmed, is threatening behaviour?

[UserSince2005]

When you think you've from Wakanda but your actually from Nigeria.

[Liam-]

Marching peacefully, and unarmed, is threatening behaviour?

Depends who does it

[Liam-]

There was an anti-mask ‘freedom’ march somewhere in England yesterday, can’t imagine they’d be described as ‘threatening’ though

[Tom4784]

Yeah, a group of white people complaining that they can't spread a virus around in a pandemic is perfectly non-threatening but black people in fancy dress are terrifying.

[Livia]

There was an anti-mask ‘freedom’ march somewhere in England yesterday, can’t imagine they’d be described as ‘threatening’ though

Were they all dressed up like paramilitaries too?

I'm guessing.... no.

[Tom4784]

You can spread disease, just as long as you aren't in fancy dress!

[Liam-]

An organised group of proud black people, using their rights to peacefully march and demonstrate, a beautiful sight, needs to happen in every city

[Liam-]

Help, I’m scared of a vest!

[Nicky91]

I know. Mercedes... killed thousands of Jewish slaves. And only 70-80 years ago.

And Hugo Boss designed all the smart Nazi uniforms.


Hamilton is either a disgrace or a fool. The jury's out.

don't bring that past pls

and you know i am also against that, so no point in discussing that either

[Elliot]

we are going in the right direction, unlike the US which seems to be going backwards!

Are we...?

[Shaun]

can't make it through the thread title without turning into scREAMING HYSTERIA

[Tom4784]

Help, I’m scared of a vest!

https://i.imgur.com/LPlEqA6.jpg

[bots]

if it hand been white nationalists dressed up like that and marching ... i wonder what those who say it's perfectly fine would be saying then :think:

[Shaun]

I mean, they're bulletproof vests and black people don't exactly have a great history with protesting and "not being shot by police" do they...

[Liam-]

if it hand been white nationalists dressed up like that and marching ... i wonder what those who say it's perfectly fine would be saying then :think:

Articles of protection aren’t threatening, but I’d imagine the people claiming black people wearing them is ‘worrying’ probably wouldn’t bat an eyelid if racists were doing it

[Nicky91]

if it hand been white nationalists dressed up like that and marching ... i wonder what those who say it's perfectly fine would be saying then :think:

white people have nothing to complain about with all their privilege

[Tom4784]

if it hand been white nationalists dressed up like that and marching ... i wonder what those who say it's perfectly fine would be saying then :think:

C'mon, you should have realised the flaws in that statement before you clicked send.

I'd have opposed what they were marching for but they would be in their rights to march. Trying to flip it around doesn't work when the other side of the argument isn't saying the same thing in a flipped perspective.

If you're trying to compare this to the armed marches in America than the comparison becomes even more flawed.

[Nicky91]

also calling it ''paramilitary style'' when what they wear is actually correct and fitting within covid-19 regulations with the face coverings

[Nicky91]

there is seriously nothing wrong with a good march against racism

[rusticgal]

also calling it ''paramilitary style'' when what they wear is actually correct and fitting within covid-19 regulations with the face coverings

Well it is Paramilitary style...has nothing to do with whether its fitting with Covid regulations :laugh:

[rusticgal]

there is seriously nothing wrong with a good march against racism


No one said otherwise...

[user104658]

I think it's a uniform and uniforms inherently come with certain connotations and are designed, if not to be threatening, to at least hint at an organised "front" or a battle line being drawn. I'm not intimidated by it, I don't think it's unquestionably intended to intimidate, but I do think that it's inevitably going to be misconstrued and thus might not have the intended effect. I think it pushes the movement further towards the fringe and makes it difficult for the bulk of "mainstream peoples" to continue to empathise, so those people will disengage, and at that point :shrug: the battle is lost.

As I've said before I understand the motivation, I understand the frustration, I understand the DESIRE to "force change"... I'm just a realist and have to point out that you can't force change without mainstream support, and thus, any action that erodes mainstream support is going to be counter-productive.

tl;dr I get it, but I think sadly a lot of the mainstream support gained lately is going to get nervous and exit via the side door.

[Liam-]

If people turn their backs on the cause because of the visual of a group of black people organising and coming together, because of what they’re wearing, then frankly, they never really truly backed the cause and they’re part of the problem imo

[Marsh.]

if it hand been white nationalists dressed up like that and marching ... i wonder what those who say it's perfectly fine would be saying then :think:

White nationalists?

[Kizzy]

if it hand been white nationalists dressed up like that and marching ... i wonder what those who say it's perfectly fine would be saying then :think:

Well I hope you'd look beyond your first impression to the context... are white nationalist and this group comparable?

[Kizzy]

I think it's a uniform and uniforms inherently come with certain connotations and are designed, if not to be threatening, to at least hint at an organised "front" or a battle line being drawn. I'm not intimidated by it, I don't think it's unquestionably intended to intimidate, but I do think that it's inevitably going to be misconstrued and thus might not have the intended effect. I think it pushes the movement further towards the fringe and makes it difficult for the bulk of "mainstream peoples" to continue to empathise, so those people will disengage, and at that point :shrug: the battle is lost.

As I've said before I understand the motivation, I understand the frustration, I understand the DESIRE to "force change"... I'm just a realist and have to point out that you can't force change without mainstream support, and thus, any action that erodes mainstream support is going to be counter-productive.

tl;dr I get it, but I think sadly a lot of the mainstream support gained lately is going to get nervous and exit via the side door.
Effectively if you choose to remain ignorant to this or any cause, it's not your fault.

[The Slim Reaper]

if it hand been white nationalists dressed up like that and marching ... i wonder what those who say it's perfectly fine would be saying then :think:

You're comparing racial justice with white nationalism. Couldn't be me.

[bots]

You're comparing racial justice with white nationalism. Couldn't be me.

no, i'm just comparing different people marching, and all the excuses being dreamed up are extraordinary

[The Slim Reaper]

no, i'm just comparing different people marching, and all the excuses being dreamed up are extraordinary

Such as?

[Oliver_W]

You're comparing racial justice with white nationalism. Couldn't be me.

What "racial justices" they think are missing can be achieved by marching in military gear?

[The Slim Reaper]

What "racial justices" they think are missing can be achieved by marching in military gear?

Military gear is doing a lot of heavy lifting in that sentence.

[Marsh.]

What "racial justices" they think are missing can be achieved by marching in military gear?

They "think" are missing?

[Oliver_W]

Military gear is doing a lot of heavy lifting in that sentence.

Okay, same question but "combat gear" ?

[Nicky91]

because they are at war against the white elite

[Liam-]

Okay, same question but "combat gear" ?

Defensive gear

[Oliver_W]

because they are at war against the white elite
:joker: okay Nicky

Defensive gear
They wouldn't need defensive gear if they weren't marching :shrug:

[Liam-]

They wouldn't need defensive gear if they weren't marching :shrug:

But they were marching and wanted to protect themselves while they did so

[Nicky91]

:joker: okay Nicky


They wouldn't need defensive gear if they weren't marching :shrug:

sorry for the extreme comment, but it is partially true, they are at a ''war'' against white privilege, corruption in law & justice system who protect evil cops

[Cherie]

But they were marching and wanted to protect themselves while they did so

How many have been injured in previous marches?

[Cherie]

I would put them in the same category as the Americans who stand around in camouflage gear

[Crimson Dynamo]

terrible night of VIOLENCE in LOndon

shocking lawless murder death

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/shooting-hackney-croydon-brixton-a4514216.html

Five men were shot in the space of seven hours as London was rocked by another night of bloodshed.

The latest violence saw gun attacks in Hackney, Brixton and Croydon

[Kizzy]

terrible night of VIOLENCE in LOndon

shocking lawless murder death

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/shooting-hackney-croydon-brixton-a4514216.html

Five men were shot in the space of seven hours as London was rocked by another night of bloodshed.

The latest violence saw gun attacks in Hackney, Brixton and Croydon
Is this linked to the thread in some way?

[user104658]

If people turn their backs on the cause because of the visual of a group of black people organising and coming together, because of what they’re wearing, then frankly, they never really truly backed the cause and they’re part of the problem imo

Maybe but honestly it's a matter of pragmatism vs idealism. What is arguably "morally right" and the way things SHOULD be is not the same as the steps that need to be taken to secure real, meaningful change. The only way to secure meaningful change is to engage with - even manipulate, if needs be - the majority "everyman" mindset and those mindsets are easily frightened away by "too much" moral passion or displays of really any sort of fired-up emotion. Anger, frustration, etc. are all valid but they won't secure meaningful change. The righteous path isn't the path that secures results, because the people who hold power don't give a **** what's right, only what's popular or benefits them directly. It's a hard pill to swallow but I think everyone has to at some point. There's a reason idealism fades with age... and it's mostly repeated realisations that things that seem to be "going somewhere" inevitably lose steam when they become emboldened, because they start losing mainstream support.

You don't really have to believe me, I guess. It'll become self-evident in time. These images are "too much" for the majority audience and so it doesn't actually matter what the intent is, in terms of the outcome.

[Kizzy]

Maybe but honestly it's a matter of pragmatism vs idealism. What is arguably "morally right" and the way things SHOULD be is not the same as the steps that need to be taken to secure real, meaningful change. The only way to secure meaningful change is to engage with - even manipulate, if needs be - the majority "everyman" mindset and those mindsets are easily frightened away by "too much" moral passion or displays of really any sort of fired-up emotion. Anger, frustration, etc. are all valid but they won't secure meaningful change. The righteous path isn't the path that secures results, because the people who hold power don't give a **** what's right, only what's popular or benefits them directly. It's a hard pill to swallow but I think everyone has to at some point. There's a reason idealism fades with age... and it's mostly repeated realisations that things that seem to be "going somewhere" inevitably lose steam when they become emboldened, because they start losing mainstream support.

You don't really have to believe me, I guess. It'll become self-evident in time. These images are "too much" for the majority audience and so it doesn't actually matter what the intent is, in terms of the outcome.

That's a very English lower middle class opinion. Nothing was ever changed in recent modern history by writing a stern letter or handing in a petition.
Even in the burbs if you want to be listened to and taken seriously you have to galvanise and organise.
This is what they are doing, if the net twitchers are scared by the sight of these protests then they need educating not placating.
Your ' go with the flow' mindset is not working. There's a reason idealism fades with age... that is because people like you stop speaking up for others and concentrate on work, bills and raising the next generation of plebs. (not calling your brats plebs btw) you are so stressed, tired and busy you don't have the time or energy to care about anyone outside your inner circle.
Meanwhile those who are not being treated equal go on not being treated equal. Whether you still care or not.

[Ammi]

....the chants were ‘we are family forever’, very peaceful/non hostile chants...and their march was part of the march that happens every year to mark the Abolishment of Slavery act...it’s only this year that these things are getting more recognition/media coverage because of the BLM current highlighting racism, inequality and injustice etc...I mean, this is the wrong way..?...and black pound day was the wrong way, it was unnecessary etc, we don’t need to support local black businesses...is there ever going to be a ‘right way’ ...anyways, I don’t agree that it’s the wrong way, the march was peaceful...and it’s only a small section from what I can see personally...*cough* Nigel Farage, the DM etc...who will use very divisive terms and words like ‘stab vests’, ‘terrifying’, ‘divide our country like never before’ etc...obviously the EU referendum didn’t divide enough, did it, Nigel...for the most part I think people are entirely supportive and don’t feel any anger/frustration coming from anything, they just feel a coming together in the name of ‘equal’..there was an advertisement on mainstream TV last night, supporting BLM...that’s change, that’s something I’d never seen before, I do believe this is all for the most part still very positive...and the only support that was/is lost is support that was never there in the beginning because it doesn’t want equality and never did...and that is the whole issue...

[Kizzy]

Well said Ammi!

[bots]

Public perception is everything, and this sort of stuff does nothing for maintaining or increasing public support. People wont be told what to find acceptable.

[Ammi]

...*cough, Brexit*...52% of people were told the EU wasn’t acceptable, don’t ya know...:laugh:..obviously that didn’t divide, we all just had to accept that it wasn’t acceptable...but we don’t have to and won’t accept that this strive for equality isn’t acceptable...


....I’m confusing myself, but yeah...people ‘will be told’ when they’re open to be told and they ‘won’t be told’ when they’re closed to be told and that’s the truth of it...and sadly some are closed to equality because they personally have it...

[Ammi]

...a great song...:lovedup:...


k6YCxXQ6Scw

[bots]

...*cough, Brexit*...52% of people were told the EU wasn’t acceptable, don’t ya know...:laugh:..obviously that didn’t divide, we all just had to accept that it wasn’t acceptable...but we don’t have to and won’t accept that this strive for equality isn’t acceptable...


....I’m confusing myself, but yeah...people ‘will be told’ when they’re open to be told and they ‘won’t be told’ when they’re closed to be told and that’s the truth of it...and sadly some are closed to equality because they personally have it...

There was a pretty even split for and against the EU from before we even joined. It never really changed. It was only ever a few % points in either direction

[Ammi]

There was a pretty even split for and against the EU from before we even joined. It never really changed. It was only ever a few % points in either direction

...it was already a ‘this country divide’ that Mr Farage not only supported fully but was very much a part of because in the Book of Farage, the EU wasn’t giving us a fair and equal deal...but when people march for a fair and equal deal, the Book of Farage says NO...:laugh:...he’s so divisive and sadly, some buy into it...but then that’s because of a disposition to do so, I would say...and equally, those who support equality/BLM...won’t be turned away either because that’s their disposition...

[Ammi]

...or what the lovely Liam said 97 pages back...:love:..

[Crimson Dynamo]

How dare we use democracy and ask people what they think

Are we really criticising public voting now ??

[user104658]

That's a very English lower middle class opinion. Nothing was ever changed in recent modern history by writing a stern letter or handing in a petition.

Even in the burbs if you want to be listened to and taken seriously you have to galvanise and organise.

This is what they are doing, if the net twitchers are scared by the sight of these protests then they need educating not placating.

Your ' go with the flow' mindset is not working. There's a reason idealism fades with age... that is because people like you stop speaking up for others and concentrate on work, bills and raising the next generation of plebs. (not calling your brats plebs btw) you are so stressed, tired and busy you don't have the time or energy to care about anyone outside your inner circle.

Meanwhile those who are not being treated equal go on not being treated equal. Whether you still care or not.To claim that nothing has changed in recent history (unless you somehow think "recent" means 10 years and not 50) is just verifiably not true, and the things that have changed the most have changed because of mainstream acceptance and support. Now... I don't particularly LIKE that being the case. Having to convince the bulk public of something to get change, when the bulk public is a heaving sack of idiots, is extremely frustrating.

Like I said though it's not really an argument that needs to be had round in circles, it's theory-based and if you're right then the current gradual slide towards bolstered righteous indignation will result in meaningful change. Give me a nudge when that happens.

[The Slim Reaper]

What bots see's

AsiZCyQoEVg

[Brother Leon]

A little bit of Black Pride and Black Military cosplay and all of sudden certain folks want to be “scared” and “worried”. There wasn’t all this concern for division amongst the public when Immigrants were being hounded to get out the country or when Muslims were being abused for the extremist attacks. Give it a rest.

[Crimson Dynamo]

A little bit of Black Pride and Black Military cosplay and all of sudden certain folks want to be “scared” and “worried”. There wasn’t all this concern for division amongst the public when Immigrants were being hounded to get out the country or when Muslims were being abused for the extremist attacks. Give it a rest.
But you are making examples up to suit your extreme narrative:conf:

[Swan]

white people have nothing to complain about with all their privilege

I think it's pretty important you know, in the UK, white privilege doesn't exist. The rich and upper middle classes have privilege for sure (most being white admittedly). But for regular working and lower class people, white privilege is a myth.

It's a term more about social class, rather than race.

[Brother Leon]

But you are making examples up to suit your extreme narrative:conf:

Have I been living in a completely different country the last few years?

Brexit,Boris and Grown of The Far Right never happened?

I wonder if you feel people should be scared when Away football fans are marching to a stadium singing and swearing?

[Crimson Dynamo]

Not the growth of the fictitious far right..

[Tom4784]

I think it's pretty important you know, in the UK, white privilege doesn't exist. The rich and upper middle classes have privilege for sure (most being white admittedly). But for regular working and lower class people, white privilege is a myth.

It's a term more about social class, rather than race.

I disagree. Racially charged police brutality exists in this country, a google search will give you plenty of examples and non-white people in shops are more likely to be watched for shoplifting than white people are.

To say that white privilege doesn't exist when you're white is quite funny.

[Marsh.]

I think it's pretty important you know, in the UK, white privilege doesn't exist. The rich and upper middle classes have privilege for sure (most being white admittedly). But for regular working and lower class people, white privilege is a myth.

It's a term more about social class, rather than race.

Says the white guy.

[user104658]

White privilege is very real, as is male privilege. Class privilege also; you'll automatically do better if you're well-spoken. Not "posh sounding" like Jacko Preece Nogg necessarily, but well enunciated middle class. Racial privilege to an extent plays into class privilege but that doesn't stop it being racial privilege: some people make a lot of class assumptions based on race. So that's still white privilege :shrug:.

It doesn't necessarily mean that all well spoken white blokes are doing great in life... But it does result in near-universal "automatic positive regard" (where it matters) and that makes an absolutely HUGE difference, whether you realise it or not. It took me until my 30's to recognise it but once you see it, it's unmistakable.

I'm not even going to pretend I don't use those advantages, but that doesn't mean I'm happy that they exist. It's bull****. Very real bull****.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Life isn't fair

Who would have thunk it?

[Marsh.]

Life isn't fair

Who would have thunk it?

Goes beyond "life isn't fair" and more into it being purposely made even harder than it should be because you have a certain colour skin/accent/genitals. And, no, that's not right.

"Life is hard" is not a justifiable reason to be kicking down those not treated as equal to everyone else.

But, you know that.

[Swan]

I disagree. Racially charged police brutality exists in this country, a google search will give you plenty of examples and non-white people in shops are more likely to be watched for shoplifting than white people are.

To say that white privilege doesn't exist when you're white is quite funny.

Says the white guy.

Tell me a time, post a link, when 'white privilege' helped a lower/working class white person.

It's a lot more about class, a lot more!

[Marsh.]

Tell me a time, post a link, when 'white privilege' helped a lower/working class white person.

It's a lot more about class, a lot more!

So, you want sources from me but don't provide any for the statement that YOU made?

[Crimson Dynamo]

[QUOTE=Marsh.;10890977]Goes beyond "life isn't fair" and more into it being purposely made even harder than it should be because you have a certain colour skin/accent/genitals. And, no, that's not right.

"Life is hard" is not a justifiable reason to be kicking down those not treated as equal to everyone else.

But, you know that.[/QUOTE
Yes if only life was fair..

I mean wtaf

[Marsh.]

You seem to be struggling with the quote function as well as white privilege.

[Swan]

So, you want sources from me but don't provide any for the statement that YOU made?

Yes, i stand by my statement that the lower and working class white people have no privilege whatsoever.

As usual, you said 'says the white guy'

Well, says the white guy too marsh. Trust me, in south London, if you're a poor kid, race means **** all!

[Denver]

For all those who say white privilege doesn't exist in the UK please explain why the black race is the most under educated and most likely to be living on the lowest incomes? Black majority boroughs in London are some of the worst places to live in the UK when the government should be doing everything to improves those places

[The Slim Reaper]

Tell me a time, post a link, when 'white privilege' helped a lower/working class white person.

It's a lot more about class, a lot more!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46927417

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2009/oct/18/racism-discrimination-employment-undercover

[Swan]

For all those who say white privilege doesn't exist in the UK please explain why the black race is the most under educated and most likely to be living on the lowest incomes? Black majority boroughs in London are some of the worst places to live in the UK when the government should be doing everything to improves those places

Agreed. But the parents should also be held accountable. Many very bright kids are held back by terrible parenting!

[Marsh.]

Yes, i stand by my statement that the lower and working class white people have no privilege whatsoever.


Stand by it as much as you like. My point being you expect to make a statement and have it stand alone but other people have to provide sources and links for you to make theirs?


Well, says the white guy too marsh. Trust me, in south London, if you're a poor kid, race means **** all!

I'm sure race does mean **** all when you're white.

[Denver]

Agreed. But the parents should also be held accountable. Many very bright kids are held back by terrible parenting!

Bull **** I can tell you know black parents do not raise their children to get into gangs and crime that all happens because these areas are not funded and also a black person is less likely to get a job over a white person even if they are better qualified.

There needs to be a huge amount of funding into developing BAME areas and give those kids the same chance a white kid would get

[Liam-]

White people always like to pretend white privilege doesn’t exist with the same ‘well, we’re not well off!!’ lines, when the most basic form of white privilege is feeling safe when walking down the street because your skin colour isn’t seen as a weapon.

White privilege isn’t about wealth, class or career, it’s about the comfort and security not being a minority brings you, the clear majority of white people wont be accused of looking ‘suspicious’ just for walking, or waiting for people on the street, white people have never been and never will be held back or down because of their skin colour and no amount of ‘wahh, white people are under attack’ nonsense, will ever change that

[Kizzy]

To claim that nothing has changed in recent history (unless you somehow think "recent" means 10 years and not 50) is just verifiably not true, and the things that have changed the most have changed because of mainstream acceptance and support. Now... I don't particularly LIKE that being the case. Having to convince the bulk public of something to get change, when the bulk public is a heaving sack of idiots, is extremely frustrating.

Like I said though it's not really an argument that needs to be had round in circles, it's theory-based and if you're right then the current gradual slide towards bolstered righteous indignation will result in meaningful change. Give me a nudge when that happens.
Give me an example, one example of something that changed due to a gradual societal shift that was not spurned by some catalyst, movement or protest.

Did we all wake up one morning and want equal rights for many groups? decent housing? Fair wages?

[Marsh.]

White people always like to pretend white privilege doesn’t exist with the same ‘well, we’re not well off!!’ lines, when the most basic form of white privilege is feeling safe when walking down the street because your skin colour isn’t seen as a weapon.

White privilege isn’t about wealth, class or career, it’s about the comfort security not being a minority brings you, the clear majority of white people wont be accused of looking ‘suspicious’ just for walking, or waiting for people on the street, white people have never been and never will be held back or down because of their skin colour and no amount of ‘wahh, white people are under attack’ nonsense, will ever change that

Exactly this. They see the word "privilege" and think of the most extreme examples of like "homeless versus millionaire" rather than looking at the nuances in life that make the biggest differences to how different people's lives turn out.

[Denver]

Why was my last post deleted? It was explaining why BAME should get more funding so doesn't make sense why it was deleted

[Marsh.]

And my response responding to this below:

Agreed. But the parents should also be held accountable. Many very bright kids are held back by terrible parenting!

[Swan]

Grow up where i grew up, 70% black, and see what they really want, not you white SJW's fighting for them over the internet, but actual equality. Where we're from a blokes a bloke, black or white. You people have NO idea the every day struggle that goes on in council block homing the poor. We stuck together, we had to, and no one had any kind of privilege black or white. Parenting was poor, and we tried to make the best for ourselves. We were in that boat together.

Real unity and equality right there. Something most you people with never understand!

[Marsh.]

Grow up where i grew up, 70% black, and see what they really want, not you white SJW's fighting for them over the internet, but actual equality. Where we're from a blokes a bloke, black or white. You people have NO idea the every day struggle that goes on in council block homing the poor. We stuck together, we had to, and no one had any kind of privilege black or white. Parenting was poor, and we tried to make the best for ourselves. We were in that boat together.

Real unity and equality right there. Something most you people with never understand!

Pointing out black people have it worse does not take away any struggles white people have had. It's an entirely separate point.

The fact you're this sensitive about the notion of anyone being worse off than you shows an inability to be rational and logical.

No amount of childish tantrums, swearing, black relatives and making assumptions about my upbringing changes that.

[Swan]

It's called passion marsh. You will NOT bring me down on this. We struggled, black and white meant nothing to us kids, we had nothing. But we was united!

[Marsh.]

It's called passion marsh. You will NOT bring me down on this. We struggled, black and white meant nothing to us kids, we had nothing. But we was united!

It's called passion to deny other people's struggles because you want to believe your struggle was worse?

No.

[Marsh.]

The fact you believe your own anecdotal evidence is enough to make such a broad statement about racism in this entire country whilst simultaneously ridiculing my own experiences (which you know nothing of) is certainly an interesting attempt at this debate.

[Liam-]

Sharing a similar class or background with black people, doesn’t mean we don’t have an unfair societal advantage over black people because of our skin colour, again, the word ‘privilege’ is being conflated with someone completely irrelevant

[Swan]

It's called passion to deny other people's struggles because you want to believe your struggle was worse?

No.

I never said 'mine' i said OURS, black/white, same boat!

[Marsh.]

I never said 'mine' i said OURS, black/white, same boat!

Sure.

[Brother Leon]

Grow up where i grew up, 70% black, and see what they really want, not you white SJW's fighting for them over the internet, but actual equality. Where we're from a blokes a bloke, black or white. You people have NO idea the every day struggle that goes on in council block homing the poor. We stuck together, we had to, and no one had any kind of privilege black or white. Parenting was poor, and we tried to make the best for ourselves. We were in that boat together.

Real unity and equality right there. Something most you people with never understand!

Your ignorance is insane. . Just because there is class privilege, it doesn’t mean White Privilege can’t be a thing either. They can both exist to your shock and horror.

[user104658]

Give me an example, one example of something that changed due to a gradual societal shift that was not spurned by some catalyst, movement or protest.



Did we all wake up one morning and want equal rights for many groups? decent housing? Fair wages?

I agree that movements have always worked as catalysts to spark up or rev the engines of change, yes, but the problem at the moment is not the beginnings of the movement - its that whenever there is a constructive movement or protest that IS sparking up that conversation and acting as a catalyst... It isn't allowed to do that. People don't let it act as a catalyst. They protest for change and then almost immediately go to "WHY hasn't the change we were looking for happened already? We were clear in what we want, why can't we see the change yet?" and there's a belief that it must be because there's a need to shout louder, or do something more visible, to be heard. Not realising that the effect it actually has, is that people who actually were listening start thinking "Ohhh I'm feeling a bit uncomfortable now" and they don't turn against it, but they do disengage and move on to a cause that's in their comfort zone.

Morally right? Nah. Pathetic? Yes quite pathetic. But neither of those things change the fact, nor the consequence.

At the end of the day, a movement needs some sort of mass appeal to succeed. And mass appeal is flimsy, watered down, weak and basic. A bitter, bitter medicine to swallow but I can't see it being any other way.

To flip the question back on you; give me one example of a societal shift that has occurred before the shouting stopped? That's not saying there should be no shouting. But it has to be interspersed with pausing to listen and observe, to see what's working and what isn't, and to adjust accordingly.

2020 politics is "shout loud, and if it doesn't seem to be working, shout more, and louder, and more aggressively".

[Swan]

Your ignorance is insane. . Just because there is class privilege, it doesn’t mean White Privilege can’t be a thing either. They can both exist to your shock and horror.

No it isn't, i admitted a privilege is there, but for certain classes!

[Marsh.]

No it isn't, i admitted a privilege is there, but for certain classes!

There can be more than one privilege at play. Several, in fact.

[Kizzy]

A conversation. .. is that the best you have?
You as a young white male seem very certain of the struggles that have affected the BAME communities in recent years.
Apart from the fact obviously that this is not a situation in its infancy, the macpherson report highlighted the need for institutional reform within the police do recent events suggest that has happened?

What do you suggest will give equality 'mass appeal'? Maybe having the tabloids not spew out divisive articles demonising groups year in year out. Not having characters like farage and hopkins thrust into the spotlight to reinforce that narrative?

To answer to your question I can think of many examples of societal shifts before the shouting stopped, the plight of refugees being one, after all wars it is the people of this country that battled to aid those in need when our govt refused.
There will be other examples I could find if you like?
It's not just 2020 that spurned this approach, it's helped though the pandemic has everyone in the mindset that you have to in some way force decisions because the powers that be are so slow to act and react.
I see it as a good thing, we need to see real change and that change working, not mealy mouthed MPs or empty promises.

[Ammi]

..’...racism is not just an American problem, it’s a British problem, it’s a global problem...’....words from British Vogue editor, Edward Enninful, on racial profiling...and showing how it crosses all classes...he was racially profiled in his own office when a security guard told him to use the loading bay when he was coming into work...‘White privilege’ is exactly described there, that type of profiling tends to be specific to a skin colour...A white executive arriving at the Vogue offices would have been recognised/profiled as such...He’s also attended marches and talks about how uniting they are and how peaceful and how if anything at all positive could have been taken from George Floyd’s murder, it is this united voice which is striving for equality...it’s not a ‘black thing’, just as feminism isn’t a ‘woman thing’...there is only people like Nigel Farage and the like minded who seem to feel opposed to that...I see nothing but support, otherwise...

[Ammi]

British Vogue editor Edward Enninful is glad he was racially profiled at work because it reminds him never to think of himself as "too successful".

Speaking to Sky News on the day that Vogue revealed its September issue was produced by a predominantly black team, Mr Enninful says systemic racism is a global problem.

The editor of the fashion bible made headlines across the world when he tweeted about being racially profiled at Vogue House when a security guard told him to use the loading bay when he arrived at work.

Recalling the incident, he said he is glad that it happened because it reminds him never to think that he is too well-known.

He said: "It wasn't an isolated incident. Of course, it takes you back to all those moments in your life when that sort of thing has happened.


He added: "It's important that something like this did happen, because it reminds me never to think I am too well-known or too established, because to somebody you are another black person."


...also a video of the interview...

https://news.sky.com/story/british-vogue-editor-edward-enninful-says-racial-profiling-can-happen-any-day-12041746

[Nicky91]

there is white privilege in every ''class''


white people in UK, USA never know any struggle, they never lose their jobs, never known poverty, never known wars, conflicts


the white privilege have nothing to complain or moan about

[Marsh.]

there is white privilege in every ''class''


white people never know any struggle, they never lose their jobs, never known poverty, never known wars, conflicts


the white privilege have nothing to complain or moan about

Ok I think you have misunderstood. :joker:

[Cherie]

there is white privilege in every ''class''


white people never know any struggle, they never lose their jobs, never known poverty, never known wars, conflicts


the white privilege have nothing to complain or moan about


not sure that is strictly correct Nicky... maybe you could start with looking at Irish history :laugh:

[Oliver_W]

For all those who say white privilege doesn't exist in the UK please explain why the black race is the most under educated and most likely to be living on the lowest incomes? Black majority boroughs in London are some of the worst places to live in the UK when the government should be doing everything to improves those places
Bull **** I can tell you know black parents do not raise their children to get into gangs and crime that all happens because these areas are not funded
There you go, answered your own question :)

a clever black working class kid living somewhere else would have the same chances as an equally bright white kid from down the road.

and also a black person is less likely to get a job over a white person even if they are better qualified.
Source?

There needs to be a huge amount of funding into developing BAME areas and give those kids the same chance a white kid would get
Agreed.

[Nicky91]

not sure that is strictly correct Nicky... maybe you could start with looking at Irish history :laugh:

i forgot to be more specific, at UK, USA


you are correct Cherie about that anyway

[Strictly Jake]

i forgot to be more specific, at UK, USA


you are correct Cherie about that anyway

No that is also incorrect

White people from every nation have known struggles, loss of jobs, poverty and conflict. It was a very strange thing to say

[user104658]

A conversation. .. is that the best you have?
You as a young white male seem very certain of the struggles that have affected the BAME communities in recent years.
Apart from the fact obviously that this is not a situation in its infancy, the macpherson report highlighted the need for institutional reform within the police do recent events suggest that has happened?

What do you suggest will give equality 'mass appeal'? Maybe having the tabloids not spew out divisive articles demonising groups year in year out. Not having characters like farage and hopkins thrust into the spotlight to reinforce that narrative?

To answer to your question I can think of many examples of societal shifts before the shouting stopped, the plight of refugees being one, after all wars it is the people of this country that battled to aid those in need when our govt refused.
There will be other examples I could find if you like?
It's not just 2020 that spurned this approach, it's helped though the pandemic has everyone in the mindset that you have to in some way force decisions because the powers that be are so slow to act and react.
I see it as a good thing, we need to see real change and that change working, not mealy mouthed MPs or empty promises.I hope you're right and will welcome any change if it comes. I worry that images like these - while I understand the emotion behind them - will be too easily turned into negative press and represent a "net loss".

However its true that it's not my fight, I can only do my best to try to support it, which in this case as an observer means saying that I'm unsure of the approach. Obviously I could be wrong, and we'll see how it develops.

[Nicky91]

No that is also incorrect

White people from every nation have known struggles, loss of jobs, poverty and conflict. It was a very strange thing to say

but never encountered racial discrimination

all white people are privileged in that way, never experienced that


yes i am white too, and i admit i know nothing about what coloured people go through (if i'm allowed to say it like that)

[Nicky91]

I am white. I've known racism. I've known racism on here. Recently.

I wonder what would happen if Jewish people walked down the road in Berlin dressed up in paramilitary garb carrying banners that say "you're lucky we want reparations and not revenge".

i know Livia, racism against jewish people is also wrong, and something what shouldn't be here anymore these modern times, i would also love for jewish people to be respected more and no longer be targets of discrimination either

they shouldn't do that in Berlin, given far right extremists are taken care of by german government and law enforcement more recent times :)

[Livia]

i know Livia, racism against jewish people is also wrong, and something what shouldn't be here anymore these modern times, i would also love for jewish people to be respected more and no longer be targets of discrimination either

they shouldn't do that in Berlin, given far right extremists are taken care of by german government and law enforcement more recent times :)

No, I wouldn't want them to do that either, Nicky. Because the Germans responsible for murdering all those people are dead now and those alive are not responsible for the sins of their fathers.

[Liam-]

I am white. I've known racism. I've known racism on here. Recently.

I wonder what would happen if Jewish people walked down the road in Berlin dressed up in paramilitary garb carrying banners that say "you're lucky we want reparations and not revenge".

People would understand that it’s a culmination of frustration over a history of hatred, racism and bigotry and be supportive of the cause

[Livia]

People would understand that it’s a culmination of frustration over a history of hatred, racism and bigotry and be supportive of the cause

LOL... Okay.

[Liam-]

:shrug:

[user104658]

People would understand that it’s a culmination of frustration over a history of hatred, racism and bigotry and be supportive of the causeIn an ideal world which I think, surely by now, we know doesn't exist. People should understand, people should be supportive, of course that's what you would like to happen, of course morally speaking that's what should happen. But that doesn't mean it's what would actually happen.

[The Slim Reaper]

I am white. I've known racism. I've known racism on here. Recently.

I wonder what would happen if Jewish people walked down the road in Berlin dressed up in paramilitary garb carrying banners that say "you're lucky we want reparations and not revenge".

The Germans went above and beyond to own their history with the jews and paid reparations. You should know this. You still can't point out examples of racism against you on here.

[Oliver_W]

The Germans went above and beyond to own their history with the jews and paid reparations. You should know this. You still can't point out examples of racism against you on here.

and the UK government bought the freedom of every slave when slavery was abolished. It cost so much that it was only paid off recently. Meaning that recent retirees would have spend their entire life's of taxes paying for it, when their parents or even grandparents wouldn't have lived knowing slavery.

The time for whining about past wrongs has long since passed. Some people really need to get off their crosses.

[The Slim Reaper]

and the UK government bought the freedom of every slave when slavery was abolished. It cost so much that it was only paid off recently. Meaning that recent retirees would have spend their entire life's of taxes paying for it, when their parents or even grandparents wouldn't have lived knowing slavery.

The time for whining about past wrongs has long since passed. Some people really need to get off their crosses.

They paid reparations to the slave owners, do you understand the difference? The actual slaves got nothing.

[Livia]

The Germans went above and beyond to own their history with the jews and paid reparations. You should know this. You still can't point out examples of racism against you on here.

I've pointed out the anti-Semitism but you refuse to accept that it is anti-Semitism. I'm used to that, don't you understand? Because you don't feel what you said was hurtful, doesn't make it so.

[Liam-]

Black people aren’t slaves anymore, why can’t they just be grateful? God!

[The Slim Reaper]

I've pointed out the anti-Semitism but you refuse to accept it's anti-Semitism. I'm used to that, don't you understand? Because you don't feel what you said was hurtful, doesn't make it so.

Let me ask you this, if I was anti semitic and genuinely bigging up Corbyn's anti semitism, why would I have argued with evidence that he isn't anti semitic? Does that make any sense to you? Also, why would I throw Rangers into the mix if it was about hating Jews more than it was about the constant lies spread about Corbyn? You have to do a lot of mental gymnastics to try and get this to work out how you want it to.

I've also seen you laugh and indulge others on here when they've made anti semitic jokes, so again, it just shows that you're using everything you can to lie about me.

Finally, you went to such lengths to get that post removed when pregnant and banned, but since then, you haven't shut up about it, so is that really genuine or just you trying to point score like the other fantasies you've tried to spread?

[Oliver_W]

They paid reparations to the slave owners, do you understand the difference? The actual slaves got nothing.

Yeah that does suck. But no-one alive is owed anything, descendants of slaves have no disadvantages compared to descendants of non-slaves. No-one alive owes anything either; as Livia said, we don't inherit the sins of our fathers.

[The Slim Reaper]

Yeah that does suck. But no-one alive is owed anything, descendants of slaves have no disadvantages compared to descendants of non-slaves. No-one alive owes anything either; as Livia said, we don't inherit the sins of our fathers.

So you've gone from reparations were paid, to suck it up and keep it moving? The Germans owned what they did, and did what they could to make it right, whereas we don't even really teach about slavery or true black history in this country, it's just basically slaves then wilberforce.

[user104658]

Yeah that does suck. But no-one alive is owed anything, descendants of slaves have no disadvantages compared to descendants of non-slaves.

This simply isn't true though. It has been proven time and time again that BAME people and - especially - people with "foreign sounding names" are at a measurable disadvantage in all sorts of areas, from employment, to likelihood of loan approval, and so on. Some of that bias is conscious, a LOT of it is subconscious, but it's there and has been statistically observed and verified.

There's plenty of debate to be had about what the solutions to these disadvantages are, but trying to argue that it doesn't exist is an untenable position.

Whether or not it's directly about being "descended from slaves" is another issue, of course many BAME people don't have slavery in their family tree, but they're subject to the same discriminations that are rooted in the same things.

[The Slim Reaper]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46927417

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2009/oct/18/racism-discrimination-employment-undercover

Quoting this with examples of foreign names not doing as well at getting job interviews.

[Oliver_W]

This simply isn't true though. It has been proven time and time again that BAME people and - especially - people with "foreign sounding names" are at a measurable disadvantage in all sorts of areas, from employment, to likelihood of loan approval, and so on. Some of that bias is conscious, a LOT of it is subconscious, but it's there and has been statistically observed and verified.

Again it's probably more of a class thing. A "white trash" name like ... Krystal Tiffany Candice would get less call-backs than a "black posh" sounding name like Solomon Anthony Gabriel.

If name-response studies mainly used names like Precious and Shoniqua, of course the results are gonna be skewed.

[user104658]

Again it's probably more of a class thing. A "white trash" name like ... Krystal Tiffany Candice would get less call-backs than a "black posh" sounding name like Solomon Anthony Gabriel.



If name-response studies mainly used names like Precious and Shoniqua, of course the results are gonna be skewed.There are huge and unavoidable overlaps between race and class, though... Yes you can point out that class discrimination exists, and that a lot of BAME discrimination is in fact class discrimination, but then you're left with the question of why such a large number of people in the classes discriminated against are BAME. It's all part of the same cycle.

Its obviously the same somewhere like Los Angeles. Yes, a lot of gang activity, crime and violence is centred around poor communities that are comprised mainly of ethnic minorities. You still have to ask the question... WHY are these poor communities full of ethnic minorities. You'll always end up at the same answer. History, slavery, colonialism, empire.

[Livia]

This simply isn't true though. It has been proven time and time again that BAME people and - especially - people with "foreign sounding names" are at a measurable disadvantage in all sorts of areas, from employment, to likelihood of loan approval, and so on. Some of that bias is conscious, a LOT of it is subconscious, but it's there and has been statistically observed and verified.

There's plenty of debate to be had about what the solutions to these disadvantages are, but trying to argue that it doesn't exist is an untenable position.

Whether or not it's directly about being "descended from slaves" is another issue, of course many BAME people don't have slavery in their family tree, but they're subject to the same discriminations that are rooted in the same things.

I had the piss ripped out of me at school. They used to sieg heil at me, amongst other things, and try to rhyme insulting stuff with my surname. Same as a girl who's surname was Steptoe. Her life was a misery.... Kids are cruel.

I've worked with a huge number of highly qualified people from all kinds of ethnic backgrounds. So clearly not all black and brown people are being discriminated against.

Also, the slave trade was a 'trade'. White people didn't go into Africa and gather people, they traded stuff with other black people and Arabs. It was ****ed up.... but it was long before any of us were born.

[The Slim Reaper]

I had the piss ripped out of me at school. They used to sieg heil at me, amongst other things, and try to rhyme insulting stuff with my surname. Same as a girl who's surname was Steptoe. Her life was a misery.... Kids are cruel.

I've worked with a huge number of highly qualified people from all kinds of ethnic backgrounds. So clearly not all black and brown people are being discriminated against.

Also, the slave trade was a 'trade'. White people didn't go into Africa and gather people, they traded stuff with other black people and Arabs. It was ****ed up.... but it was long before any of us were born.

Well the Roman Catholic church divided the world up in the 15th century and gave Portugal West Africa and all it's trade as they conquered it. There was even a papal decree about reducing populations and keeping the people in perpetual slavery, so it's not true to say white people didn't go in. Africans themselves obviously played their part, but that last bit is definitely misleading.

[Livia]

Let me ask you this, if I was anti semitic and genuinely bigging up Corbyn's anti semitism, why would I have argued with evidence that he isn't anti semitic? Does that make any sense to you? Also, why would I throw Rangers into the mix if it was about hating Jews more than it was about the constant lies spread about Corbyn? You have to do a lot of mental gymnastics to try and get this to work out how you want it to.

I've also seen you laugh and indulge others on here when they've made anti semitic jokes, so again, it just shows that you're using everything you can to lie about me.

Finally, you went to such lengths to get that post removed when pregnant and banned, but since then, you haven't shut up about it, so is that really genuine or just you trying to point score like the other fantasies you've tried to spread?


Are you going to mention my pregnancy in every post now?

I can laugh when my friends make anti-Semitic jokes that I know are meant as jokes. You are not my friend.

You said what you said.

You've also told me that Jewish people would get an easier time around the world if they spoke out against Israel. That is the epitome of anti-Semitism. Or didn't you mean that either? Maybe that was a joke too.

[Livia]

Well the Roman Catholic church divided the world up in the 15th century and gave Portugal West Africa and all it's trade as they conquered it. There was even a papal decree about reducing populations and keeping the people in perpetual slavery, so it's not true to say white people didn't go in. Africans themselves obviously played their part, but that last bit is definitely misleading.

I don't see the Portuguese continually beating themselves up about it.

Africans and Arabs played a big part.

Before we start to go round in circles, I'm done talking to you on this thread.

[Cherie]

but never encountered racial discrimination

all white people are privileged in that way, never experienced that


yes i am white too, and i admit i know nothing about what coloured people go through (if i'm allowed to say it like that)

just because you haven't doesn't mean it doesn't happen, and we haven't used 'coloured' as a descriptor for some time.. person of colour yes.

[Nicky91]

Racism, discrimination in any form whatsoever should have no place in these modern times

i strive for more equality in the world, where everyone respects each other regardless of colour, religion, class, disability

[The Slim Reaper]

Are you going to mention my pregnancy in every post now?

I can laugh when my friends make anti-Semitic jokes that I know are meant as jokes. You are not my friend.

You said what you said.

You've also told me that Jewish people would get an easier time around the world if they spoke out against Israel. That is the epitome of anti-Semitism. Or didn't you mean that either? Maybe that was a joke too.

No, it was just relevant to set the scene here. You were suffering pregnancy related health issues whilst trawling the forum and reporting my posts to your friends to report, because you were banned and couldn't. I think that sequence of events is important because that's what you're asking people to believe.

And there we have it, friends aren't anti semitic but people you don't like are? That's an interesting approach.

I haven't told you Jewish people would get an easier time if they criticised Israel.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Racism, discrimination in any form whatsoever should have no place in these modern times

i strive for more equality in the world, where everyone respects each other regardless of colour, religion, class, disability

can you tell us more about the striving aspect

what are you doing to achieve this?

[Tom4784]

It's ignorance beyond compare and shows a complete lack of empathy to act like white privilege doesn't exist and it's hilariously privileged in itself to deny that your own privilege exists.

Fact, being born white in most places in the west will lead to an easier life than a non-white person in the same situation. Especially in America. You can deny it, you can pretend otherwise but delusion doesn't change the facts.

[Nicky91]

can you tell us more about the striving aspect

what are you doing to achieve this?

i can't do anything on my own with all honesty


but i can have dreams of a better world someday with more equality

[Elliot]

Tell me a time, post a link, when 'white privilege' helped a lower/working class white person.

It's a lot more about class, a lot more!

Yes I kind of agree, it is a lot lot lot about class. You said it yourself, 70% of the people you grew up with were black. Black people are disproportionally affected by class struggles and poverty. That isn’t to say that white people arent, economical class as an axis of oppression can affect anyone and it’s valid to discuss it, but simply bringing up class struggle to shut down discussion about racism doesn’t seem very fair. I’m empathetic to the fact that you grew up as someone who was poor and it was very ****ing hard, so why can’t you be empathetic towards people who deal with racism? Why do you feel the need to try and shut down or undermine these discussions?

[Crimson Dynamo]

i can't do anything on my own with all honesty


but i can have dreams of a better world someday with more equality

How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world.

Anne Frank

[Tom4784]

The whole 'and what are you doing' argument is truly weak cop out way of devaluing someone's views without putting the effort in to form a cohesive counter argument.

What people do or don't do is irrelevant to the conversation and to use that line to try to shut down opinions just shows a complete lack of wit and intellect from those that rely on such lines in arguments.

[Crimson Dynamo]

You be the change you want to see in the world

[Brother Leon]

You be the change you want to see in the world

Yeah. And when we peacefully march in the streets, you will tell us how we are scaring you and dividing the nation, right?

[bots]

Yeah. And when we peacefully march in the streets, you will tell us how we are scaring you and dividing the nation, right?

which we have a democratic right to do if we so wish

[Kizzy]

How long do you have to have lived somewhere to be classed as indigenous?... I hear arguments in support of ' indigenous' people's. Is there a sliding scale of people afforded more rights based on their traceable heritage?

[Kizzy]

which we have a democratic right to do if we so wish

No you don't ... you have no rights to interfere with anyone's right to protest.

You can sit in your prius and winge like your atypical mail reading gammon or karen. But you have no right to prohibit any other citizen excersising their real democratic right.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Yeah. And when we peacefully march in the streets, you will tell us how we are scaring you and dividing the nation, right?

who is "we" and "you"?

[bots]

No you don't ... you have no rights to interfere with anyone's right to protest.

You can sit in your prius and winge like your atypical mail reading gammon or karen. But you have no right to prohibit any other citizen excersising their real democratic right.

as usual you are talking rubbish. It is my democratic right to raise concerns that I may have. Maybe it doesn't fit into your authoritarian ideal, but too bad

[Liam-]

White people will always find an excuse to look down on black people, whenever they speak up about the racism they face, they’re told to turn the other cheek, whenever they talk about the injustices they face they’re told to do as their told and get on with it, they’re dictated to about how they can protest, they protest peacefully and they’re called dividers, there will never be a situation good enough for white people to feel comfortable with black people asserting themselves and their rights and it’s a damn shame

[joeysteele]

i can't do anything on my own with all honesty


but i can have dreams of a better world someday with more equality

You can though Nicky and you are.

With what you support and say you support.
You are making your contribution.

Not everyone can be high profile, even by your sharing of your knowledge, experiences and your views on things on here.
You are reaching others.

Never worry about teaching those who'd not be interested in your view or thinking.
If you can even just help to have one other person to re think their positions on issues.

Your striving and your hope for a better World, may then have someone else thinking like you on any said issue.

[Liam-]

When you are accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression

[Crimson Dynamo]

1 Corinthians 4:7

For who makes you different from anyone else? What do you have that you did not receive? And if you did receive it, why do you boast as though you did not?

[Oliver_W]

When you are accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression

You're right there - we do live in an age of equality, but some people still carp on about how "oppressed" they are.

[Liam-]

You're right there - we do live in an age of equality, but some people still carp on about how "oppressed" they are.

:joker:

[Kizzy]

as usual you are talking rubbish. It is my democratic right to raise concerns that I may have. Maybe it doesn't fit into your authoritarian ideal, but too bad

Lol.. you think it's your democratic right to chelp.

[Tom4784]

White people will always find an excuse to look down on black people, whenever they speak up about the racism they face, they’re told to turn the other cheek, whenever they talk about the injustices they face they’re told to do as their told and get on with it, they’re dictated to about how they can protest, they protest peacefully and they’re called dividers, there will never be a situation good enough for white people to feel comfortable with black people asserting themselves and their rights and it’s a damn shame

Nobody ever got equality by asking for it.

[Tom4784]

You're right there - we do live in an age of equality, but some people still carp on about how "oppressed" they are.

It's like you enjoy swinging and missing the point.

[Ammi]

1290321001427992576

[Marsh.]

Yes I kind of agree, it is a lot lot lot about class. You said it yourself, 70% of the people you grew up with were black. Black people are disproportionally affected by class struggles and poverty. That isn’t to say that white people arent, economical class as an axis of oppression can affect anyone and it’s valid to discuss it, but simply bringing up class struggle to shut down discussion about racism doesn’t seem very fair. I’m empathetic to the fact that you grew up as someone who was poor and it was very ****ing hard, so why can’t you be empathetic towards people who deal with racism? Why do you feel the need to try and shut down or undermine these discussions?

Spot on.
It screams of wanting to victimise yourself and being too arrogant to believe other people have had it harder than you.

[Cherie]

1290321001427992576

:love:

[user104658]

1290321001427992576The multi-layered irony of this is staggering. Is it satire?

[Beso]

And they’re all wearing masks like sensible, responsible patriotic people, we have no choice but to stan

Your optician needs called

[GoldHeart]

Imagine being scared of a protest about racial inequality. They weren't armed, they weren't violent, they were literally just chanting in costumes.

Do all the people who think this is terrifying, who act like this will cause a race war but not the generations of racial inequality, think the same about armed marches of white people invading government buildings in America or is that okay because white people aren't 'scary'?

Exactly EDL & far right protestors never get this much Grief and they're the most violent and hateful , also people were using the pandemic as another excuse to cry and moan and mock BLM , and if I hear another brainless idiot shout out " All lives mater " :facepalm: .

People need to look at themselves in the mirror and address their own ignorance, they see a bunch of black people peacefully marching and suddenly they feel threatened , yet they wonder why racism is alive and kicking still .

And ugly smug weasels like Nigel Farage is fueling to the fire and he's loving it the racist dirt bag ! .

[Marsh.]

Chilling chants? [emoji38]

:joker: