American Murder: The Family Next Door/Netflix...

[Ammi]

...I don’t know if anyone has seen this or knows the story...I would totally recommend it...but it is one of the most disturbing real life stories and will break your heart...the ‘lives’ leading up to, though...how it’s recounted and played out on social media is fascinating...

ep8iKiQNSrY

[Niamh.]

Is this a film or a series Ammi?

[Ammi]

...it’s a one episode documentary, so a short watch...I thought it was a series at first because it was in that Netflix section ...but when I googled how many episodes there were...(...to see if I would binge watch it today...)...I saw there was only one...:laugh:...it couldn’t not upset you, Niamh...but it’s also such a mesmerising watch that you can’t put down...

[Niamh.]

Oh excellent, sometimes I like the shorter ones anyway. I'll definitely give this a look over the weekend

[Ammi]

...let me know what your thoughts are..?...I hope that Smithy and LukeB watch it as well as I know this will be their thing...it’s a story that I hadn’t known about but feel that I somehow should have...

[Niamh.]

Will do :love:

[DouglasS]

I watched it two days ago! Also followed the case when it happened.

He’s gross and I hate how Unremorseful he is about killing his two toddlers and pregnant wife

[DouglasS]

It’s good she had that best friend that called the police and was relentless about getting into the property, otherwise he would have had time to remove evidence and come up with a story / alibi

[Ammi]

...could you use spoilers please, DouglasS...

[DouglasS]

...could you use spoilers please, DouglasS...

I have done. Although the documentary is called the American murder about the murder of shanaan watts, and the trailer literally begins with what I stated. Also it is a real life case/murder documentary - not really a ‘spoiler’

[Ammi]

I have done. Although the documentary is called the American murder about the murder of shanaan watts, and the trailer literally begins with what I stated. Also it is a real life case/murder documentary - not really a ‘spoiler’

...of course, I understand ...it’s a bit like ‘unsolved murder’ type titles and similar ...so we do know but we don’t know details etc and the interest ...(...for those who don’t know a true story...)..comes from learning those details and seeing them unfold, you know...thank you for spoilering DouglasS ...

[LukeB]

...let me know what your thoughts are..?...I hope that Smithy and LukeB watch it as well as I know this will be their thing...it’s a story that I hadn’t known about but feel that I somehow should have...

I do plan to watch this over the weekend :laugh: was browsing for crime documentaries to save for the weekend. Quite looking forward to watching it and Unsolved Mysteries volume 2 which will be on netflix on the 19th october.

[Ammi]

I do plan to watch this over the weekend :laugh: was browsing for crime documentaries to save for the weekend. Quite looking forward to watching it and Unsolved Mysteries volume 2 which will be on netflix on the 19th october.

....oh I’ll watch out for unsolved 2...I accidentally came across this/...I wasn’t looking for a real life story/documentary ...it’s one of the most heartbreaking of stories but for that reason, it’s a watch that is deserved also, Luke...

[AnnieK]

Will give this a watch this weekend. Thanks for the recommendation.

Just watched the trailer. I remember the case now..

[Ammi]

...I couldn’t recall the case, Annie...I’m looking forward to hearing your thoughts when you refresh...:love:...

[Morgan.]

I followed the case at the time, but I just watched this and I thought it was amazing. Really well put together, I love how the story was told through ‘found footage’ etc, it really added that extra layer of emotion to it.

[AnnieK]

I watched it last night.

Those poor girls :lad: what drives a person to do that? Just goes to show the life people post on social media can be a million miles away from what is really going on. The lowlives who trolled Shanann's family during the court case were horrific too.

Enjoyed it not a word I would use for this but it was well filmed and told the story well.

[Ammi]

...I felt completely stunned/frozen with it...it’s just the most incomprehensible of cases...when he asked Shanann what time her flight was due...?..I thought that he’d already killed Celeste and Bella and he was obviously going to kill her when she got home...?..but he hadn’t killed them, he’d waited to kill Shanann first and then he didn’t kill Bella and Celeste in their sleep, so they would know nothing of their precious father harming them...they wouldn’t have had to ‘live through it’...they were fully aware and had their mom’s lifeless body right there next to them in the car for that 45 minute or so drive out to the tanks...they asked if their mom was ok...:sad:...and then when he killed them, he killed them while they were fully awake and looking right into their faces so that they knew that the person harming them was their own father...it’s so utterly heartbreaking to even try to imagine...

...in the interview when he admitted to killing Shanann but had said that she had killed the girls and that was the reason...it was so contrived in terms of still feeling his father’s love and comfort because his father and mother didn’t have great love or a relationship with Shannon but they did for the girls...how would his parents have felt at the moment that the truth was revealed to them...would they still have felt love and comfort for their son and knowing that their son had taken the lives of their much loved grandchildren...

...when they first were in the house at the beginning and the guy said that he felt it suspicious and knew something wasn’t right because of how much Chris was talking and he rarely said anything...how astute and how correct, he’d make a great detective...

[Smithy]

I just watched it, awful awful story, but in terms of as a documentary I didn’t find it that gripping?

Idk, I didn’t really like it because it just seemed like an open and shut case to me?

[Ammi]

...yeah, maybe more of a Don't ****** With Cats/type thing...with it being so well known to many people..(...although I hadn’t personally been aware...)...but actually seeing it unfold on social media as it were...

[DouglasS]

One thing the documentary doesn’t show is how vile chris watts mother is.

I mean it briefly mentions her giving the kids food they’re allergic to, but it doesn’t mention that this is like the third time she’d done it, and also the fact she herself blamed the murder on shanan. And kept saying her son was innocent and had no remorse for her two grandchildren and unborn child.

I can see why Chris turned out the way he did by having that beast as a mother

[Braden]

I watched this last night and just felt grossed out by it all. I usually invest in these types of documentaries because they’re gripping stories, but Netflix constantly produce them so it just felt like another grim story the company will profit from.

[Ammi]

One thing the documentary doesn’t show is how vile chris watts mother is.

I mean it briefly mentions her giving the kids food they’re allergic to, but it doesn’t mention that this is like the third time she’d done it, and also the fact she herself blamed the murder on shanan. And kept saying her son was innocent and had no remorse for her two grandchildren and unborn child.

I can see why Chris turned out the way he did by having that beast as a mother

...I did get the feeling that Chris’ mom just thought the allergies were some kind of ‘fad’ ...that Shanann was just being fussy and silly...

[Ammi]

I watched this last night and just felt grossed out by it all. I usually invest in these types of documentaries because they’re gripping stories, but Netflix constantly produce them so it just felt like another grim story the company will profit from.

....hmmm, I guess that I get that as well, Braden...but I felt it to be a tribute to Shanann and the girls as well in highlighting everything that happened in such a way...I hadn’t heard the story before and they so deserve for their story to be heard and people to know, I feel...they so deserve that...

[rusticgal]

I watched it last night.

Those poor girls :lad: what drives a person to do that? Just goes to show the life people post on social media can be a million miles away from what is really going on. The lowlives who trolled Shanann's family during the court case were horrific too.

Enjoyed it not a word I would use for this but it was well filmed and told the story well.


We did too...and I totally agree.

[rusticgal]

Another thing we noticed...just as an observation, that no Lawyers were present throughout the interviews and polygraph..just found that strange.

[Braden]

....hmmm, I guess that I get that as well, Braden...but I felt it to be a tribute to Shanann and the girls as well in highlighting everything that happened in such a way...I hadn’t heard the story before and they so deserve for their story to be heard and people to know, I feel...they so deserve that...

Yeah, I absolutely see where you’re coming from.

My thoughts on these types of documentaries has changed. Whenever I finish watching, I just think ‘I really could have done without knowing about this story’ because they (and this one in particular) are just depressing.

[Smithy]

Another thing we noticed...just as an observation, that no Lawyers were present throughout the interviews and polygraph..just found that strange.

Because he did it voluntarily, he clearly thought he could lie his way through it, why would an “innocent” man need a lawyer with him

[DouglasS]

Because he did it voluntarily, he clearly thought he could lie his way through it, why would an “innocent” man need a lawyer with him

Many innocent men go down for crimes they did not commit due to this thinking :crazy:

Even if you’re innocent you definitely need a lawyer, this train of thought is very dangerous. The justice system is not always correct


Edit: also polygraph tests average around 95% accuracy usually.
1 in 20 is still quite a large proportion of people to be be caught falsely in a lie. Out of 1 million people people that is 20,000 people.. obviously in this case it’s irrelevant because their is clear evidence and a confession, but relying on polygraphs tests alone is not evidence

[Niamh.]

Many innocent men go down for crimes they did not commit due to this thinking :crazy:

Even if you’re innocent you definitely need a lawyer, this train of thought is very dangerous. The justice system is not always correct


Edit: also polygraph tests average around 95% accuracy usually.
1 in 20 is still quite a large proportion of people to be be caught falsely in a lie. Out of 1 million people people that is 20,000 people.. obviously in this case it’s irrelevant because their is clear evidence and a confession, but relying on polygraphs tests alone is not evidenceI don't think you can use a polygraph as evidence in court because of that which is why the detectives were pushing for a confession so hard, I also think its why they made the suggestion to him that maybe Shanann had killed the girls, to make him feel like he can confess without confessing to being evil, kind of a thing? It was pretty clever I thought

[DouglasS]

I don't think you can use a polygraph as evidence in court because of that which is why the detectives were pushing for a confession so hard, I also think its why they made the suggestion to him that maybe Shanann had killed the girls, to make him feel like he can confess without confessing to being evil, kind of a thing? It was pretty clever I thought

Yes I agreed, I also liked the use of the ‘good cop’ ‘bad cop’ strategy :laugh:

One of them was like “I know you did it, and I will find out in 5 mins”
And the other was comforting him.

I guess if the method isn’t broken then it doesn’t need changing

[Smithy]

I don't think you can use a polygraph as evidence in court because of that which is why the detectives were pushing for a confession so hard, I also think its why they made the suggestion to him that maybe Shanann had killed the girls, to make him feel like he can confess without confessing to being evil, kind of a thing? It was pretty clever I thought

Exactly, so at the end of the day it’s irrelevant that he didn’t have a lawyer with him

[Ammi]

I don't think you can use a polygraph as evidence in court because of that which is why the detectives were pushing for a confession so hard, I also think its why they made the suggestion to him that maybe Shanann had killed the girls, to make him feel like he can confess without confessing to being evil, kind of a thing? It was pretty clever I thought

...yeah I thought the two detectives interviewing him In suggesting that he’d only killed Shanann...

[Niamh.]

His neighbour had him sussed straight away though

[Ammi]

...yeah, I said that earlier...how he had found it suspicious from the off because Chris wasn’t a ‘talker’ but he was talking a lot to the police officers.../...he could be a detective, so very astute...

[Niamh.]

The thoughts of those two little girls though still alive having to travel with their dead mother, just horrific, what kind of a monster was he? And the motive, just so bizarre. I can't understand why he thought murdering his whole family was a better option than just leaving. So scary though, Reading her texts to her friend etc she really had no idea what kind of a man she had married or what he was capable of. Its a terrifying thing to realise that no matter how long you know a person, spend your life with them, can you ever truly know anyone?

[Ammi]

...she did feel the change in him, that he would never touch her or want any physical contact...so she obviously suspected the affair quite quickly...but she could have never known what he was capable of and what he was planning for return...it’s obviously unfathomable that a parent would kill their child../...children at all..?...but to have not killed them in their sleep and before she came home and then killed her...?..to have taken them on that drive../..around 45 minutes with her lifeless body at their feet...and then to look into their eyes when he killed them and as ‘no daddy’ was being pleaded..I just felt numb../..frozen with what he’d done...

[Niamh.]

Exactly, so at the end of the day it’s irrelevant that he didn’t have a lawyer with himYeah, he would have had the option but he was probably thinking he'd make himself look guilty if he asked for one.

I also liked the woman who was giving him the test, her little speech beforehand telling him, look you can't beat the test but you're going to tell the truth so you have nothing to worry about [emoji28] no better way to get his blood pressure sky rocketing

[Niamh.]

...she did feel the change in him, that he would never touch her or want any physical contact...so she obviously suspected the affair quite quickly...but she could have never known what he was capable of and what he was planning for return...it’s obviously unfathomable that a parent would kill their child../...children at all..?...but to have not killed them in their sleep and before she came home and then killed her...?..to have taken them on that drive../..around 45 minutes with her lifeless body at their feet...and then to look into their eyes when he killed them and as ‘no daddy’ was being pleaded..I just felt numb../..frozen with what he’d done...Oh yes she was suspicious of the affair but when she spoke about what a sweet caring man and that maybe her being bossy pushed him away etc she definitely had no idea what he was actually like, a violent psychopath

Yes those poor babies final hour doesn't bare thinking about, just how could anyone do that to any child but your own?? Horrific

[AnnieK]

Yeah, he would have had the option but he was probably thinking he'd make himself look guilty if he asked for one.

I also liked the woman who was giving him the test, her little speech beforehand telling him, look you can't beat the test but you're going to tell the truth so you have nothing to worry about [emoji28] no better way to get his blood pressure sky rocketing

I was quite surprised they let his dad in with him when he started breaking down on his story.

[Niamh.]

I was quite surprised they let his dad in with him when he started breaking down on his story.Definitely part of the strategy I'd say, they probably knew he'd confide in him looking for comfort

[Ammi]

Oh yes she was suspicious of the affair but when she spoke about what a sweet caring man and that maybe her being bossy pushed him away etc she definitely had no idea what he was actually like, a violent psychopath

Yes those poor babies final hour doesn't bare thinking about, just how could anyone do that to any child but your own?? Horrific

...the letter she wrote to him was heartbreaking...and he effectively killed their son as well, Shanann so wanted him to have a son and I can’t imagine how confusing her life became in such a short time since she’d worn the ...oops we’ve done it again announcement t shirt...So, so unhappy and only wanting him to show her love again...:sad:...that’s why I feel that although it’s one of the most heartbreaking story I’ve ever known and so upsetting...she and the girls really deserved for their stories to be told like this, rather than just being a ‘news story’...

[Ammi]

I was quite surprised they let his dad in with him when he started breaking down on his story.

Definitely part of the strategy I'd say, they probably knew he'd confide in him looking for comfort

...yeah, I do think that his dad had been told of their suspicions and that he helped to get the confession...

[Niamh.]

...the letter she wrote to him was heartbreaking...and he effectively killed their son as well, Shanann so wanted him to have a son and I can’t imagine how confusing her life became in such a short time since she’d worn the ...oops we’ve done it again announcement t shirt...So, so unhappy and only wanting him to show her love again...:sad:...that’s why I feel that although it’s one of the most heartbreaking story I’ve ever known and so upsetting...she and the girls really deserved for their stories to be told like this, rather than just being a ‘news story’...Yeah it's awful. And what kind of a ****ed up world are we living in when her grieving family are being harrassed and people taking Chris" side, disgusting

[Ammi]

Yeah it's awful. And what kind of a ****ed up world are we living in when her grieving family are being harrassed and people taking Chris" side, disgusting

...I haven’t read about the harassment yet....I will do, though...it’s just so difficult to get into the mindsets with stuff like that..that even if killing his wife was somehow defended...?..he killed those two girls with such coldness of looking right into their eyes while he took their lives away from them...

[Crimson Dynamo]

watching this with our supper at 8!

[rusticgal]

I don't think you can use a polygraph as evidence in court because of that which is why the detectives were pushing for a confession so hard, I also think its why they made the suggestion to him that maybe Shanann had killed the girls, to make him feel like he can confess without confessing to being evil, kind of a thing? It was pretty clever I thought


No Niamh...they cannot be used.
His arrogance...he must have thought their was a chance he would pass it. However guilty or innocent you should always have a solicitor. The police must have been punching the air...

[Niamh.]

No Niamh...they cannot be used.

His arrogance...he must have thought their was a chance he would pass it. However guilty or innocent you should always have a solicitor. The police must have been punching the air...A solicitor would have made sure he didn't do it i reckon but its a catch 22, if he'd got himself a solicitor he would have looked guilty as sin

[Ammi]

...if anyone can bear to watch a full length documentary/movie on YouTube...I totally recommend this as well..it will break your heart but it’s also very
up-lifting...the very, very worst and the very, very best of people...it’s a few years since I watched but it’s a story that doesn’t really leave you easily...apparently Netflix did do their story about it also but that was a few years ago so I doubt that it would be showing on there now...


cDSgMlVWbfU

[armand.kay]

I watched this last night and didn’t know anything about the case prior and I was honestly in shock. I did not for one second think the husband could be involved. I was thinking up all these mysterious scenarios because I could not fathom how a man could murder his two daughters and wife out of the blue. This man is so sick and twisted and in my opinion he deserves to die. Anybody who can take the life of two children should not be allowed to live out the rest of their lives. It’s also very obvious that this was premeditated. I don’t believe his tears when he was asking himself why he couldn’t save his children. He knew he was going to murder them before she got back from her trip.

[rusticgal]

Exactly, so at the end of the day it’s irrelevant that he didn’t have a lawyer with him


Whether you are innocent or not you should always have a Lawyer present. There are plenty of innocent people that go to prison for something they did not commit....its just commen sense :shrug:

[AnnieK]

Whether you are innocent or not you should always have a Lawyer present. There are plenty of innocent people that go to prison for something they did not commit....its just commen sense :shrug:

Completely agree but I think it was down to his arrogance. They will have probably advised him to, most Americans would lawyer up quickly but he probably thought he could front it out.

[Babayaro.]

Watched this last night but was aware of the case at the time. I'm curious as to what it was that made him switch? Because to me, it seemed like a single moment of madness and rage as the viewers were not informed of any past violent behaviours from him.

Obviously the worst part was the murders itself, but the fact he tried to frame his wife for killing her own daughters was totally evil and cowardly

[Ammi]

Watched this last night but was aware of the case at the time. I'm curious as to what it was that made him switch? Because to me, it seemed like a single moment of madness and rage as the viewers were not informed of any past violent behaviours from him.

Obviously the worst part was the murders itself, but the fact he tried to frame his wife for killing her own daughters was totally evil and cowardly

...I didn’t feel as though it was rage..it felt extremely premeditated...he drove the girls out to the tanks to kill them with their mom’s dead body at their feet...that doesn’t sound like rage..

[Niamh.]

...I didn’t feel as though it was rage..it felt extremely premeditated...he drove the girls out to the tanks to kill them with their mom’s dead body at their feet...that doesn’t sound like rage..

Yeah it sounds the opposite of rage really doesn't it? It almost sounds unemotional and cold which is far more scary and sinister

[Babayaro.]

...I didn’t feel as though it was rage..it felt extremely premeditated...he drove the girls out to the tanks to kill them with their mom’s dead body at their feet...that doesn’t sound like rage..

Okay reading back, I didn't word my post very well lol

I agree with you that the actual murders were premeditated but I wonder how/when he came to the decision to kill them?? What was the final straw for him, etc? Because in the FB videos he seemed like just a regular Dad and had no past history of violence, according to what we were shown.

[Babayaro.]

Just shows that you never truly know someone

[rusticgal]

Completely agree but I think it was down to his arrogance. They will have probably advised him to, most Americans would lawyer up quickly but he probably thought he could front it out.

Yes Annie you are no doubt right.

[rusticgal]

Okay reading back, I didn't word my post very well lol

I agree with you that the actual murders were premeditated but I wonder how/when he came to the decision to kill them?? What was the final straw for him, etc? Because in the FB videos he seemed like just a regular Dad and had no past history of violence, according to what we were shown.


It is really bizarre....he could have just left them...no one had to be killed :shrug:

[Niamh.]

Just shows that you never truly know someone

Yeah, that's the scariest thing about it. Like I said before what would make a guy do what he did, all he had to do was say I'm leaving you and walk out the door, why would he kill them all? even if he really doesn't care about any of them, surely he'd realise the likelihood of getting caught, it's almost always the husband in cases like this so it must have crossed his mind that he would be looked at very carefully

[user104658]

We watched this on Friday and it made me saaad :(.

In terms of what made him do it, I have a STRONG suspicion that his girlfriend was lying when she said she had never indicated that him having a family was a problem. I don't think she was involved in any way, but I think he hid his circumstances from her for most of their relationship and then revealed that he actually wasn't separated etc. at the "weekend dinner" they had and she indicated that him having a family indeed was an issue and - for unfathomable reasons - that lead him down a path of "getting rid of the problem".

I might be totally wrong obviously but her reaction when they asked came off as defensive, understandably, as she would have been scared about being implicated more directly. So basically I don't at all think she said "get rid of your family" but perhaps did say that they couldn't be together because of his circumstances.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I just laughed at how the neighbour had him made in a second

[Niamh.]

We watched this on Friday and it made me saaad :(.

In terms of what made him do it, I have a STRONG suspicion that his girlfriend was lying when she said she had never indicated that him having a family was a problem. I don't think she was involved in any way, but I think he hid his circumstances from her for most of their relationship and then revealed that he actually wasn't separated etc. at the "weekend dinner" they had and she indicated that him having a family indeed was an issue and - for unfathomable reasons - that lead him down a path of "getting rid of the problem".

I might be totally wrong obviously but her reaction when they asked came off as defensive, understandably, as she would have been scared about being implicated more directly. So basically I don't at all think she said "get rid of your family" but perhaps did say that they couldn't be together because of his circumstances.

Quite possibly which there's nothing wrong with either, it is a lot to take on, an ex and kids etc. No sane person is going to think "better not say that in case he decides to slaughter the whole family" though

My own armchair psychology as well is telling me that he's a guy who gets totally obsessed with people and will go to great lengths to get them and that will override anything else in his life. From the bits Shanann had said about how they got together it sounded like he had to really pursue her hard at the start and she resisted the relationship for a while. Kind of Joe from You vibes

[Babayaro.]

It's just totally bizarre that he thought the only solution was to murder his entire family + unborn child :/

Instead of, say, get a divorce

[Crimson Dynamo]

It's just totally bizarre that he thought the only solution was to murder his entire family + unborn child :/

Instead of, say, get a divorce


Its about total control and completion id imagine

[Babayaro.]

I agree with a previous post that mentioned how well made the documentary was. It was virtually all real life footage which was impressive.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I agree with a previous post that mentioned how well made the documentary was. It was virtually all real life footage which was impressive.

most of the stuff was on youtube - i had watched most of it already. The TL had no clue about it so she was like F me this is mental:shocked:

[Babayaro.]

Imagine what was going through his poor Father's head when he confessed to murder :(

[armand.kay]

...I didn’t feel as though it was rage..it felt extremely premeditated...he drove the girls out to the tanks to kill them with their mom’s dead body at their feet...that doesn’t sound like rage..

Yes I agree I believe he had that spot picked out ages before he actually killed them. I don’t even trust his story I wouldn’t be surprised if there was no big altercation before he killed her

[armand.kay]

I honestly can’t get those little girls out of my mind.

[armand.kay]

I agree with a previous post that mentioned how well made the documentary was. It was virtually all real life footage which was impressive.

Yeah I actually thought it was fake at first

[AnnieK]

I was reading a little more about this case and came across this article. I know the DM is not the most popular of sites but it is recorded in other papers but, this is the most detailed showing just how premeditated and horrific these crimes were

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7520985/amp/Chris-Watts-chilling-letter-confessing-killed-family.html

Those poor babies :sad:

[Cherie]

I watched this last night, I remember the case, but didn’t follow it at the time

How dumb was he unenrolling the girls from school the morning he killed them and putting the house up for sale, I wondered why the police woman was so confident during the polygraph test, obviously they had that damning information

[Ammi]

...if anyone can bear to watch a full length documentary/movie on YouTube...I totally recommend this as well..it will break your heart but it’s also very
up-lifting...the very, very worst and the very, very best of people...it’s a few years since I watched but it’s a story that doesn’t really leave you easily...apparently Netflix did do their story about it also but that was a few years ago so I doubt that it would be showing on there now...


cDSgMlVWbfU

..l’m going to bring this forward because it’s such a recommended watch...it’s something that I watched several years ago and re-watched recently after American Murder...so far as premeditated/cold/evil etc ...it really is looking evil/‘the devil’ right in the face...but it’s also looking goodness and love in the face as well.../..heartbreakingly sad but uplifting...

[Niamh.]

I was reading a little more about this case and came across this article. I know the DM is not the most popular of sites but it is recorded in other papers but, this is the most detailed showing just how premeditated and horrific these crimes were

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7520985/amp/Chris-Watts-chilling-letter-confessing-killed-family.html

Those poor babies :sad:

This bit, ****ing hell what a monster, that was really difficult to read

He then relived for Cadle, in appalling detail, how he killed his eldest daughter Bella after she had watched him murder and dispose of her sister. He spoke of his surprise that: 'Little quiet Bella had a will to live.'

'Out of all three, Bella is the only one that put up a fight. I will hear her soft little voice for the rest of my life, saying, 'Daddy, NO!!! She knew what I was doing to her. She may not have understood death, but she knew I was killing her.'

And the way he refers to them as his babies and calls Celeste "CeCe" he doesn't have that right anymore

[UserSince2005]

So ****ing weird.
Murder cannot be justified but I could come to some sense of killing your wife in a fit of rage, but to drive your kiddies in the back of the car for an hour and then murder them is just so ****ed up.
Steroids do weird things to the brain.

For me the most interesting part of the documentary was watching the footage of his initial reaction to her disappearance.

[Niamh.]

So ****ing weird.
Murder cannot be justified but I could come to some sense of killing your wife in a fit of rage, but to drive your kiddies in the back of the car for an hour and then murder them is just so ****ed up.
Steroids do weird things to the brain.

For me the most interesting part of the documentary was watching the footage of his initial reaction to her disappearance.

Yeah the neighbour had his number instantly :laugh:

[Cherie]

How did he think he was going to sell the house while she was still a missing person?

He really came across as of very low intelligence

Killing them was all about releasing the assets which makes it even worse as that was going to take forever if they were never found

[Niamh.]

How did he think he was going to sell the house while she was still a missing person?

He really came across as of very low intelligence

Killing them was all about releasing the assets which makes it even worse as that was going to take forever if they were never found

Yeah he was really stupid, firstly he was always going to be looked at most intensely by the Police because he's the husband, anyone who has ever watched TV or read a newspaper knows that, how did he think they wouldn't find out he'd un-rolled his daughter from school or tried to put the house on the market or that they wouldn't find out he'd been seeing someone else?

[Niamh.]

Also apparently there's inconsistencies with the girl friends story too, she says they'd only been seeing each other for a couple of months and that Chris was more into her than the other way round but apparently they found search history on her phone from a year previous googling both Chris and Shanann's names

[Ammi]

...the whole cast is weird, his girlfriend didn’t particularly appear to me to be stunned by it all...but maybe that’s just how it was edited...

...and also how he completely couldn’t be with Shanann at all or show her any affection, seemed weird as well...how completely he’d fallen out of love with her to the point that he couldn’t touch her...

[Ammi]

...it wasn’t like he loved two people at the same time, he just completely lost his love for Shanann...I mean, completely...

[Niamh.]

Yeah, I was saying he reminded me a bit of Joe from the TV show You, have you watched that Ammi? He would get completely obsessed with a person but could also just switch once a new "love" came along

[Ammi]

...no I haven’t seen You...I’ll look it up if it’s on Netflix...but I just don’t understand how he could have gone from really feeling his family and being thrilled about her pregnancy and having a son...to killing them all in the way he did...his girlfriend is barely featured but I just feel that Mose specifics of his relationship with her is a big ‘piece of the jigsaw/mystery’ that we need to have as well..

[Niamh.]

Well he clearly didn't think or feel like a normal person, no normal person could behave the way he did and he comes across so unemotional and unempathetic as well. The most emotional he looked was when he was watching that CCTV video of his neighbours so a fear for himself

[Ammi]

..he was also quite contrived and manipulative in the interview when he knew that if his father thought that Shanann had killed the girls...?...he would keep him onside and keep his support...

[Ammi]

...ughhhh, you really so need to watch Dear Zachary, Niamh...as well as being on YouTube, it was on Netflix but I’m not sure if it’s still on there now though...but it brings a new meaning to ‘evil’...

[UserSince2005]

..he was also quite contrived and manipulative in the interview when he knew that if his father thought that Shanann had killed the girls...?...he would keep him onside and keep his support...

i think he was probs just embarrassed to admit he killed the two girls, its not something to be proud of.

He was just stupid narcissist.

[UserSince2005]

Has anyone watch evil genius on netflix?
its a slow start trying to work out who everyone is in the story, but its got some good twists and turns

[Niamh.]

...ughhhh, you really so need to watch Dear Zachary, Niamh...as well as being on YouTube, it was on Netflix but I’m not sure if it’s still on there now though...but it brings a new meaning to ‘evil’...

I will definitely, thanks
Has anyone watch evil genius on netflix?
its a slow start trying to work out who everyone is in the story, but its got some good twists and turns

Yeah i watched that, very interesting story (and weird)

[Cherie]

Also apparently there's inconsistencies with the girl friends story too, she says they'd only been seeing each other for a couple of months and that Chris was more into her than the other way round but apparently they found search history on her phone from a year previous googling both Chris and Shanann's names

that sounds extremely odd, but yeah the seeing each other for two months thing does seem a bit unrealistic, he did say in that DM article that he would take the person's name who supplied him with the drug to try and abort the baby to his grave, maybe she gave it to him?

[Niamh.]

that sounds extremely odd, but yeah the seeing each other for two months thing does seem a bit unrealistic, he did say in that DM article that he would take the person's name who supplied him with the drug to try and abort the baby to his grave, maybe she gave it to him?I'm watching a YouTube series called Unmasked about her with all the interviews and phone calls between her and investigating officer, she's sketchy as ****, definitely not telling the truth about what went on between herself and Chris

[Niamh.]

..l’m going to bring this forward because it’s such a recommended watch...it’s something that I watched several years ago and re-watched recently after American Murder...so far as premeditated/cold/evil etc ...it really is looking evil/‘the devil’ right in the face...but it’s also looking goodness and love in the face as well.../..heartbreakingly sad but uplifting...Halfway through this atm Ammi [emoji173] the guy who made this really manages to bring Andrew alive. What a complete psychopath that woman is, heartbreaking

[Niamh.]

...ughhhh, you really so need to watch Dear Zachary, Niamh...as well as being on YouTube, it was on Netflix but I’m not sure if it’s still on there now though...but it brings a new meaning to ‘evil’...ugh I have about 30 minutes left and I'm terrified she's going to kill Zachery

[Niamh.]

aw ****, ****, ****. Evil bitch

[Ammi]

...I think that it was his dad who said that it really was looking into the face of evil...but how inspirational were his parents.../...amazing people...

[Ammi]

...also, considering that it’s as a time before social media etc and the ease of taking vids on phones...there was some amazing footage of Andrew...as you say, really brought him alive...:lovedup:..

[AnnieK]

I read the story of Andrew and I can't bring myself to watch the video as I know how it ends.

[Josy]

I'm watching a YouTube series called Unmasked about her with all the interviews and phone calls between her and investigating officer, she's sketchy as ****, definitely not telling the truth about what went on between herself and ChrisI started watching that too shes definitely dodgy as hell

[Amy Jade]

I'm just watching and I'm impressed by how much is actual footage rather than just someone talking

[Cherie]

I started watching that too shes definitely dodgy as hell

He isn’t the sharpest, she could be the brains behind it all

[Amy Jade]

I'm only about 40 minutes in and I know the ending and I am obviously in no way defending the guy but I think Shannann was way too obsessed with social media so I am not shocked the love fell out of their marriage.

Like at one point after 5 weeks away iir she was more concerned with getting a video of him arriving at the airport than actually seeing him and then she complained he wasn't attentive. Well in all honestly if I was away from Tyler for 5 weeks and when my plane touched down and his response was 'let me film it' I'd be put out too?

[Niamh.]

I started watching that too shes definitely dodgy as hellI watched 4 of them and she's lied loads plus she does that thing of talking loads and loads about stuff unrelated for an age

[Niamh.]

I'm only about 40 minutes in and I know the ending and I am obviously in no way defending the guy but I think Shannann was way too obsessed with social media so I am not shocked the love fell out of their marriage.

Like at one point after 5 weeks away iir she was more concerned with getting a video of him arriving at the airport than actually seeing him and then she complained he wasn't attentive. Well in all honestly if I was away from Tyler for 5 weeks and when my plane touched down and his response was 'let me film it' I'd be put out too?Honestly though what does that have to do with her, her unborn son and two small daughters being murdered in cold blood?

[Niamh.]

I don't mean to be snappy Amy Jade but so what? So what if she's too in to social media, so what if Chris didn't like that? He doesn't like that therefore she deserves to be murdered along with her 3 babies? And if that's not what you are saying then why say it at all?

[Babayaro.]

Tbf to Amy, she was only saying that she wasn't shocked about the marriage falling apart due to Shannan's obsession with social media and constant need to film everything

Does she deserve to be murdered for it? Of course not

[Niamh.]

Tbf to Amy, she was only saying that she wasn't shocked about the marriage falling apart due to Shannan's obsession with social media and constant need to film everything

Does she deserve to be murdered for it? Of course not

Fair point, apologies Amy Jade. I have read some awful comments though saying Shanann was abusive towards Chris and it was understandable he snapped etc. There's some really terrible stuff being said and it's seems to be just because Chris is good looking

[Niamh.]

...also, considering that it’s as a time before social media etc and the ease of taking vids on phones...there was some amazing footage of Andrew...as you say, really brought him alive...:lovedup:..

I was kind of mad at you for making me watch it for a while it's such an awful story but I'm really glad I did now :laugh: His poor parents, they seem like just the nicest people in the whole world, how they get up everyday and keep moving is a miracle. I'm so glad they're really channeling that pain and anger though into something so worthwhile. It's an absolute disgrace that what happened to Zachery in particular was allowed to happen, it was so so preventable, the whole system failed that poor baby. I felt so bad for the dad as well when he said he really considered killing Shirley just to make Zachery safe

[Ammi]

I was kind of mad at you for making me watch it for a while it's such an awful story but I'm really glad I did now :laugh: His poor parents, they seem like just the nicest people in the whole world, how they get up everyday and keep moving is a miracle. I'm so glad they're really channeling that pain and anger though into something so worthwhile. It's an absolute disgrace that what happened to Zachery in particular was allowed to happen, it was so so preventable, the whole system failed that poor baby. I felt so bad for the dad as well when he said he really considered killing Shirley just to make Zachery safe


...yeah it really does show the absolute ‘evil’ in someone...and if that’s all it showed then I couldn’t have watched it either...but the total contrast of absolute ‘good’ was shown in his parents, so it had an uplifting feeling as well...to know there are people like them out there to balance the really awful stuff in the world...and also, a great tribute to Andrew himself, he deserves his life to be told as well because he seemed such a terrific guy...poor Zachary, I know...:sad:...just heart rendering and the family he should have known were the very best of families...

[Wizard.]

This whole thing was just awful I've watched a few videos about it too and apparently he says he could've killed anyone and been justified for it because of his love for Nicole? And then apparently when he arrived in Colorado Shannan had a headache and he said he was giving her painkiller but it was actually a drug that would've made her miscarry because Nicole said she wanted to give him his first son. But because he confessed everything they didn't even bother investigating her.

Although I do believe if it wasn't Nicole he would've met someone else and still done it, apparently he was bisexual too and had an affair with a man.

[Wizard.]

The thoughts of those two little girls though still alive having to travel with their dead mother, just horrific, what kind of a monster was he? And the motive, just so bizarre. I can't understand why he thought murdering his whole family was a better option than just leaving. So scary though, Reading her texts to her friend etc she really had no idea what kind of a man she had married or what he was capable of. Its a terrifying thing to realise that no matter how long you know a person, spend your life with them, can you ever truly know anyone?

So in America if he left his wife and kids he would have to pay so much child support that he would be broke and all his earnings would go to the children. Shannan would live in the house or at least get half of what it's worth and he would've had nothing to start a new life with his precious Nicole.

Also as he is a narcissist he would've been so concerned about what people would think of him leaving his family and pregnant wife that in his messed up head removing them from the scenario completely, thinking he could get away with it, would've left his image in tact.

I could never get over his daughter Bella singing that song about how her Daddy was her hero.

[Niamh.]

This whole thing was just awful I've watched a few videos about it too and apparently he says he could've killed anyone and been justified for it because of his love for Nicole? And then apparently when he arrived in Colorado Shannan had a headache and he said he was giving her painkiller but it was actually a drug that would've made her miscarry because Nicole said she wanted to give him his first son. But because he confessed everything they didn't even bother investigating her.

Although I do believe if it wasn't Nicole he would've met someone else and still done it, apparently he was bisexual too and had an affair with a man.

They probably couldn't pin anything on her anyway, I reckon she was just hinting and prodding without incriminating herself so much.

So in America if he left his wife and kids he would have to pay so much child support that he would be broke and all his earnings would go to the children. Shannan would live in the house or at least get half of what it's worth and he would've had nothing to start a new life with his precious Nicole.

Also as he is a narcissist he would've been so concerned about what people would think of him leaving his family and pregnant wife that in his messed up head removing them from the scenario completely, thinking he could get away with it, would've left his image in tact.

I could never get over his daughter Bella singing that song about how her Daddy was her hero.

He's not very clever though is he? If that was premeditated (and I think he's said that it was) you'd think he'd have had a better plan. The neighbours CCTV alone had him pretty much caught straight away because it showed Shan'ann coming home and never leaving again or the girls leaving after that night

[Niamh.]

Ugh how gross is this, who the hell does he think he is? :

"Chris Watts keeps pictures of Shanann, Bella, and Celeste on his cell walls and spoke to them at night. He wrote Celeste a letter on her birthday and had his parents read it at her gravesite. He described himself as Celeste’s “safe haven” despite having murdered her and thrown her body in an oil drum."

https://filmdaily.co/news/chris-watts-jake-patterson/

[Wizard.]

Ugh how gross is this, who the hell does he think he is? :

"Chris Watts keeps pictures of Shanann, Bella, and Celeste on his cell walls and spoke to them at night. He wrote Celeste a letter on her birthday and had his parents read it at her gravesite. He described himself as Celeste’s “safe haven” despite having murdered her and thrown her body in an oil drum."

https://filmdaily.co/news/chris-watts-jake-patterson/

the epitome of delusional and psychotic

[Amy Jade]

I'm only about 40 minutes in and I know the ending and I am obviously in no way defending the guy but I think Shannann was way too obsessed with social media so I am not shocked the love fell out of their marriage.

I don't mean to be snappy Amy Jade but so what? So what if she's too in to social media, so what if Chris didn't like that? He doesn't like that therefore she deserves to be murdered along with her 3 babies? And if that's not what you are saying then why say it at all?

of course two innocent sweet little girls and their poor mother and the child she was carrying never deserved to be murdered. I said so in the first paragraph and I've been posting here for years now, have I ever struck you as the type of person who says such a thing? my god.

My comment was purely on their marriage and how odd it was.

[Josy]

Is Dear Zachary on Netflix?

[Niamh.]

of course two innocent sweet little girls and their poor mother and the child she was carrying never deserved to be murdered. I said so in the first paragraph and I've been posting here for years now, have I ever struck you as the type of person who says such a thing? my god.



My comment was purely on their marriage and how odd it was.No I'm sorry Amy, I shouldn't have said that, I had just read a lot of comments on YouTube making excuses for Chris and blaming Shan'ann so that was in my mind

[Niamh.]

Is Dear Zachary on Netflix?I Don't know i watched it on YouTube

[Josy]

I Don't know i watched it on YouTubeJust found it on YouTube there lol

[Ramsay]

Dear Zachary is a very tough watch

[Ammi]

...yeah, Dear Zachary isn’t an easy watch, Josy...just to say...it really does depict evil in human...

[Josy]

Dear Zachary is a very tough watch...yeah, Dear Zachary isn’t an easy watch, Josy...just to say...it really does depict evil in human...Absolutely heartbreaking and yes definitely not an easy watch, the tears are steaming down my face

[Ammi]

Absolutely heartbreaking and yes definitely not an easy watch, the tears are steaming down my face

..:hug:..David and Kate Bagby are such incredibly inspirational people...I found this small update on their lives from January of this year...

https://www.thechronicleherald.ca/news/canada/after-newfoundland-woman-killed-their-son-and-grandson-california-couple-seeks-to-improve-bail-laws-393895/?itm_source=parsely-api

[Amy Jade]

No I'm sorry Amy, I shouldn't have said that, I had just read a lot of comments on YouTube making excuses for Chris and blaming Shan'ann so that was in my mind

youtube comments are the scurge, how anyone could excuse what he did is honestly beyond me, if you are unhappy you can leave those poor little girls especially did nothing but love him, anyone who can take a child's life is evil.

[Niamh.]

youtube comments are the scurge, how anyone could excuse what he did is honestly beyond me, if you are unhappy you can leave those poor little girls especially did nothing but love him, anyone who can take a child's life is evil.And not just any child but your own child, I just can't get my head around it and throwing their little bodies in oil tanks, its just so cold

[Niamh.]

Smithy you will like this, a really creepy coincidence involving the CCTV footage and AHS. When they're finished looking at the video an advert pops up on the screen (3.18) of a fetus which is actually an ad for AHS, the full ad is eerily similar to stuff Chris did :skull: Coincidence or a message from Shan'ann?

STIdWP5CM0E

[Smithy]

Smithy you will like this, a really creepy coincidence involving the CCTV footage and AHS. When they're finished looking at the video an advert pops up on the screen (3.18) of a fetus which is actually an ad for AHS, the full ad is eerily similar to stuff Chris did :skull: Coincidence or a message from Shan'ann?

STIdWP5CM0E

Mess lemme perch this later

[Niamh.]

Mess lemme perch this later

Just watch from 3.18 on wards

[Ammi]

....something that a friend said when he watched it...’maybe he was a master manipulator’....it was when we were talking about the woman he was seeing, Nichol and whether she knew more...?...but he wasn’t a master manipulator, was he...I mean, he couldn’t manipulate Shanann into not realising his affair, he was so obvious in that he refused all physical/intimate contact with her...and in the interview, it was a very short time until he admitted the murder of the girls as well ...so he couldn’t really keep up a ‘manipulation’ with his dad of his dad thinking that Shanann had killed the girls....so he was a pretty awful manipulator...and yet something as awful as this/his intentions...and Nichol had no inklings...?...

[The Slim Reaper]

I followed this when it happened and have watched all the bodycam footage and interviews. I don't think Nichol had anything to do with it, other than the affair of course.

In his prison interview they ask him about the theories, and you can just tell he's not hiding anything. He gave himself away through his actions the whole case, so no way he wouldn't have given himself away in this, too.

[Niamh.]

I followed this when it happened and have watched all the bodycam footage and interviews. I don't think Nichol had anything to do with it, other than the affair of course.

In his prison interview they ask him about the theories, and you can just tell he's not hiding anything. He gave himself away through his actions the whole case, so no way he wouldn't have given himself away in this, too.

I still think there was more to it with Nichol, she deleted all their texts and she was very evasive in her interviews, always spending ages talking about stuff that didn't matter but forgetting a lot of conversations she had with Chris. She's hiding something imo, it may not be to do with the murders even but she was definitely hiding something from the Police officers imo

[Ammi]

I followed this when it happened and have watched all the bodycam footage and interviews. I don't think Nichol had anything to do with it, other than the affair of course.

In his prison interview they ask him about the theories, and you can just tell he's not hiding anything. He gave himself away through his actions the whole case, so no way he wouldn't have given himself away in this, too.

...yeah that’s one thing we can say, I think...he was an awful manipulator from the off...his affair was so obvious because he didn’t manipulate is the thing...

[Niamh.]

....something that a friend said when he watched it...’maybe he was a master manipulator’....it was when we were talking about the woman he was seeing, Nichol and whether she knew more...?...but he wasn’t a master manipulator, was he...I mean, he couldn’t manipulate Shanann into not realising his affair, he was so obvious in that he refused all physical/intimate contact with her...and in the interview, it was a very short time until he admitted the murder of the girls as well ...so he couldn’t really keep up a ‘manipulation’ with his dad of his dad thinking that Shanann had killed the girls....so he was a pretty awful manipulator...and yet something as awful as this/his intentions...and Nichol had no inklings...?...

Yeah I agree with you, he wasn't clever or a manipulator imo It seemed like he didn't think the murders through at all

[The Slim Reaper]

I still think there was more to it with Nichol, she deleted all their texts and she was very evasive in her interviews, always spending ages talking about stuff that didn't matter but forgetting a lot of conversations she had with Chris. She's hiding something imo, it may not be to do with the murders even but she was definitely hiding something from the Police officers imo

If you suddenly suspected the man you were having an affair with, wiped out his family, I think it's probably 50:50 between those that would delete everything and those that wouldn't. I've no doubt she's hiding things. It's pretty natural. They were in a new relationship, so there's probably some really dodgy stuff that's personal between them, that none of us would want getting out in that situation.

She did go to the police voluntarily before they even knew about her. I think in cases this horrific, it's natural to look for other things because it just doesn't make sense that he did what he did.

[Niamh.]

If you suddenly suspected the man you were having an affair with, wiped out his family, I think it's probably 50:50 between those that would delete everything and those that wouldn't. I've no doubt she's hiding things. It's pretty natural. They were in a new relationship, so there's probably some really dodgy stuff that's personal between them, that none of us would want getting out in that situation.

She did go to the police voluntarily before they even knew about her. I think in cases this horrific, it's natural to look for other things because it just doesn't make sense that he did what he did.

I would like to think I'd definitely not delete stuff that could help Police convict him tbh

Regarding her going to Police before they knew about her, I've read reports that they did know about her before she came forward. Also, they were in a new relationship but she had googled both Chris and Shan'ann up to a year before the relationship started and before Chris even knew her which is really really odd :

The discovery documents examined by CrimeOnline included a “Phone Data Review,” which showed the internet search history of principals in the case, including Kessinger. The recovered phone data, which included some entries that had been deleted from her search history, appear to show that Kessinger did online searches for the names Shanann Watts and Chris Watts as far back as 2017, and on multiple occasions before both she and Chris Watts said their affair began. A records supervisor initially told CrimeOnline that an entry for a Google search of Shanann Watts in September 2017 was a “typo” in the report. But Weld County District Attorney Michael Rourke later said, in a December 2018 interview with CrimeOnline, that the items in the report accurately reflected what was found in the data review.
https://www.crimeonline.com/2020/10/02/chris-watts-mistress-does-nichol-kessinger-know-more-than-she-let-on/

[The Slim Reaper]

...yeah that’s one thing we can say, I think...he was an awful manipulator from the off...his affair was so obvious because he didn’t manipulate is the thing...

I don't think he was any kind of manipulator. He didn't cover his tracks in anyway - even the bedsheet he wrapped her in, he left at the work site. He didn't have any kind of plan for any of it. He may have been planning on working it out after work, but Shannan's nicole put an end to that.

The excuse he gave at the station was only his excuse because the detective gave it to him as part of the interrogation, and he latched on to it because he knew they didn't believe in his innocence. Even after the polygraph, all he had to do was walk out as a free man, and lawyer up. He was just too frazzled by that point to even know what he was doing.

[The Slim Reaper]

I would like to think I'd definitely not delete stuff that could help Police convict him tbh

Regarding her going to Police before they knew about her, I've read reports that they did know about her before she came forward. Also, they were in a new relationship but she had googled both Chris and Shan'ann up to a year before the relationship started and before Chris even knew her which is really really odd :

The discovery documents examined by CrimeOnline included a “Phone Data Review,” which showed the internet search history of principals in the case, including Kessinger. The recovered phone data, which included some entries that had been deleted from her search history, appear to show that Kessinger did online searches for the names Shanann Watts and Chris Watts as far back as 2017, and on multiple occasions before both she and Chris Watts said their affair began. A records supervisor initially told CrimeOnline that an entry for a Google search of Shanann Watts in September 2017 was a “typo” in the report. But Weld County District Attorney Michael Rourke later said, in a December 2018 interview with CrimeOnline, that the items in the report accurately reflected what was found in the data review.
https://www.crimeonline.com/2020/10/02/chris-watts-mistress-does-nichol-kessinger-know-more-than-she-let-on/

She deleted it before she knew he was guilty (it was on the first night), and I think it's a human thing to do. I'd like to think I'd have kept all the info too, but honestly, it's such a crazy pressurised situation, I just don't know how panic and everything sets in.

They obviously both lied about the start date of them seeing each other, and probably a lot of other things too, like the fact she said she didn't know they were pregnant - which is obvious bollocks.

They may have known about her, but she came forward before they needed to look for her. Even the police officer admitted that in one of her crazy interviews.

[Niamh.]

She deleted it before she knew he was guilty (it was on the first night), and I think it's a human thing to do. I'd like to think I'd have kept all the info too, but honestly, it's such a crazy pressurised situation, I just don't know how panic and everything sets in.

They obviously both lied about the start date of them seeing each other, and probably a lot of other things too, like the fact she said she didn't know they were pregnant - which is obvious bollocks.

They may have known about her, but she came forward before they needed to look for her. Even the police officer admitted that in one of her crazy interviews.

That just seems like self preservation though, she knew they would get around to her eventually, it looks better if you come forward yourself.

Chris still denies that they were seeing each other any earlier though (what difference does it make when they started the affair/why lie about that?) and I believe him because you could see how obsessed he was with her, he couldn't even pretend with Shan'ann once he started this thing with Nichol and I don't for a second believe he would have agreed to have a baby with Shan'ann (which he did) had he already been seeing Nichol. And he was actually asked about those google searches from the year before and he had no idea why she would have done that considering they didn't even know each other back then, nichol wasn't even working in Chris's company then. The only explanation Chris could think of was that she may have heard of Shan'ann because of her online work and presence

[The Slim Reaper]

That just seems like self preservation though, she knew they would get around to her eventually, it looks better if you come forward yourself.

Chris still denies that they were seeing each other any earlier though (what difference does it make when they started the affair/why lie about that?) and I believe him because you could see how obsessed he was with her, he couldn't even pretend with Shan'ann once he started this thing with Nichol and I don't for a second believe he would have agreed to have a baby with Shan'ann (which he did) had he already been seeing Nichol. And he was actually asked about those google searches from the year before and he had no idea why she would have done that considering they didn't even know each other back then, nichol wasn't even working in Chris's company then. The only explanation Chris could think of was that she may have heard of Shan'ann because of her online work and presence

You can look at everything she does as self preservation from the moment it kicks off, including deleting stuff from her phone. Even without the guilt of involvement she knows instantly that her life has changed forever, because she was the other women in a family wipeout case, and no one ever comes out clean. She looked up other cases where this happened on that night - including how much money one of them made from book sales.

There's something definitely off about her, but I don't believe she had any involvement in what happened, even just through suggestion.

[Niamh.]

You can look at everything she does as self preservation from the moment it kicks off, including deleting stuff from her phone. Even without the guilt of involvement she knows instantly that her life has changed forever, because she was the other women in a family wipeout case, and no one ever comes out clean. She looked up other cases where this happened on that night - including how much money one of them made from book sales.

There's something definitely off about her, but I don't believe she had any involvement in what happened, even just through suggestion.

I don't think she told him to kill his family however it's mentioned a lot by her to both Chris and a female friend of hers that she's a bit obsessed with "firsts" that Chris has already been married and has kids, she actually told Chris at one point that she wanted to give him his first son. I wonder if there was a lot of comments like that to Chris did he then get the idea that he should kill them all so Nichol could have his "firsts" instead? (obviously this is all speculation on my part and even if it's true wouldn't mean it's Nichols fault) But yeah i don't know, there's something really weird about her maybe not criminally weird but off putting certainly. I mean, if Chris's guess is right, that Nichol knew who Shan'ann was before she knew Chris, did she possibly fall for Chris from a far through Shan'ann's social media? Could she have purposely tried to get a job where he worked in order to pursue him? That would be messed up

[Ammi]

...(..I read..)..apparently he gets ‘fan mail’ in prison, which is something that’s quite common ...and he’s said that he thinks that one of the females writing to him is Nichol...so he may still be ‘fixated’ on her...

[Niamh.]

...(..I read..)..apparently he gets ‘fan mail’ in prison, which is something that’s quite common ...and he’s said that he thinks that one of the females writing to him is Nichol...so he may still be ‘fixated’ on her...

Apparently, he still says he loves her yeah.........all while having photographs of Shan'ann, Bella and Celeste in his cell. Sick ****er

[The Slim Reaper]

I don't think she told him to kill his family however it's mentioned a lot by her to both Chris and a female friend of hers that she's a bit obsessed with "firsts" that Chris has already been married and has kids, she actually told Chris at one point that she wanted to give him his first son. I wonder if there was a lot of comments like that to Chris did he then get the idea that he should kill them all so Nichol could have his "firsts" instead? (obviously this is all speculation on my part and even if it's true wouldn't mean it's Nichols fault) But yeah i don't know, there's something really weird about her maybe not criminally weird but off putting certainly. I mean, if Chris's guess is right, that Nichol knew who Shan'ann was before she knew Chris, did she possibly fall for Chris from a far through Shan'ann's social media? Could she have purposely tried to get a job where he worked in order to pursue him? That would be messed up

Just so many things that were left unanswered so we all fill in the blanks. I think because everything is so public, it's made it harder to accept that we don't know everything, when these cases are probably always left with loads of questions but we don't have a fraction of the info to go on.

[Niamh.]

Just so many things that were left unanswered so we all fill in the blanks. I think because everything is so public, it's made it harder to accept that we don't know everything, when these cases are probably always left with loads of questions but we don't have a fraction of the info to go on.

Oh I know that but these things are fascinating all the same, I can't help speculating :laugh:

[Niamh.]

Ok and this is a big speculation but I wonder was what she was hiding that she was the one who gave Chris both the idea and drug to try and cause Shan'ann to miscarry so that Nichol could have his "first son" instead. One story that both Chris and Nichols version of events match up is that they had an argument one time while Shan'ann was away for those few weeks, they argued in Chris and Shan'anns house, could she have discovered while there that Shan'ann was having a boy and maybe she had a meltdown about that. We know it was while Chris went to Shan'ann's parents that he gave her the first dose of that poison

[The Slim Reaper]

Oh I know that but these things are fascinating all the same, I can't help speculating :laugh:

Agreed. Anything to do with killers and their psychology, I'm there.

He obviously has some developmental issues and is probably along the sociopath spectrum somewhere. I just don't know how anyone could do this, but not to even have a cleanup plan suggests to me, he had it in his head, and then he snapped.

Thankfully if we ever go into the murdering business, our years of watching dexter will stand us in good stead.

[Niamh.]

Agreed. Anything to do with killers and their psychology, I'm there.

He obviously has some developmental issues and is probably along the sociopath spectrum somewhere. I just don't know how anyone could do this, but not to even have a cleanup plan suggests to me, he had it in his head, and then he snapped.

Thankfully if we ever go into the murdering business, our years of watching dexter will stand us in good stead.

I do think it was premeditated however he's either a total moron and had absolutely no plan about alibi's, getting the bodies out of the house without being obvious, excuses to tell her numerous friends, family & followers etc etc or (probably more likely, as you said) he was planning it but snapped too early and without preparation

[The Slim Reaper]

Ok and this is a big speculation but I wonder was what she was hiding that she was the one who gave Chris both the idea and drug to try and cause Shan'ann to miscarry so that Nichol could have his "first son" instead. One story that both Chris and Nichols version of events match up is that they had an argument one time while Shan'ann was away for those few weeks, they argued in Chris and Shan'anns house, could she have discovered while there that Shan'ann was having a boy and maybe she had a meltdown about that. We know it was while Chris went to Shan'ann's parents that he gave her the first dose of that poison

If I remember correctly, Shanann didn't even know she was having a boy that early as she wanted a surprise at their gender reveal party initially, so she gave her results to the other Nicole. it was only when they cancelled that party that she found out.

I may be misremembering things though.

[Niamh.]

If I remember correctly, Shanann didn't even know she was having a boy that early as she wanted a surprise at their gender reveal party initially, so she gave her results to the other Nicole. it was only when they cancelled that party that she found out.

I may be misremembering things though.

I thought she knew and the gender reveal party was for her friends and family? isn't that how they usually work? (not that I ever knew anyone who had one :laugh: )

[The Slim Reaper]

I thought she knew and the gender reveal party was for her friends and family? isn't that how they usually work? (not that I ever knew anyone who had one :laugh: )

That's why it stood out to me, because she wanted to wait.

I need to find this out now or it will bug me.

[Niamh.]

That's why it stood out to me, because she wanted to wait.

I need to find this out now or it will bug me.

I'm trying to find out now too. The most i can find is someone saying she had a baby boy picture frame in her office at home with the ultra sound picture in it, but that's just a person's comment on a youtube video

[The Slim Reaper]

I'm trying to find out now too. The most i can find is someone saying she had a baby boy picture frame in her office at home with the ultra sound picture in it, but that's just a person's comment on a youtube video

It must be from Nicoles police interviews so I'll have a look.

[Niamh.]

It must be from Nicoles police interviews so I'll have a look.

You're right actually, this was sent a week before she was murdered :

https://i.imgur.com/O9TtWrW.jpg

[Niamh.]

Although, just because she didn't know for sure if the baby was a boy or girl doesn't mean that my theory couldn't be true either :

Watts has also confessed that he slipped oxycodone to Shanann several weeks before the murders, hoping to cause her to miscarry.
I thought it would be easier to be with Nichol if Shanann wasn’t pregnant.
According to Cheryln Cadle, Watts told her that his girlfriend wanted to be the one to give him a son.
https://medium.com/honestly-yours/what-netflixs-american-murder-didn-t-tell-you-about-chris-and-shanann-watts-2a90a9a88745

[The Slim Reaper]

Good find. I thought I'd seen that was the case, but it's 2 years ago now. She was 15 weeks pregnant when they were murdered in August, and they were in SC in June I think, so they wouldn't have been able to tell the sex at 7 weeks.

[The Slim Reaper]

Although, just because she didn't know for sure if the baby was a boy or girl doesn't mean that my theory couldn't be true either :

Watts has also confessed that he slipped oxycodone to Shanann several weeks before the murders, hoping to cause her to miscarry.
I thought it would be easier to be with Nichol if Shanann wasn’t pregnant.
According to Cheryln Cadle, Watts told her that his girlfriend wanted to be the one to give him a son.
https://medium.com/honestly-yours/what-netflixs-american-murder-didn-t-tell-you-about-chris-and-shanann-watts-2a90a9a88745

I think that Cheryin - if it's the author I'm thinking of, has been largely discredited, and found to be making loads of stuff up - although again, I may be misremembering that too.

[Niamh.]

I think that Cheryin - if it's the author I'm thinking of, has been largely discredited, and found to be making loads of stuff up - although again, I may be misremembering that too.

I didn't hear anything like that anytime I've seen her book referenced, they were based on his letters to her

[The Slim Reaper]

I didn't hear anything like that anytime I've seen her book referenced, they were based on his letters to her

Her book has been pulled from loads of places like Amazon, because she was found plagiarizing other peoples work for her books.

3rN2cdllMm8

[Niamh.]

The letters from Chris are genuine though which is where that quote is from

[The Slim Reaper]

The interview I posted is about the letters book (I think).

[Niamh.]

The interview I posted is about the letters book (I think).

I can't watch it now (I'm at work) but I read that the letters were genuine but that there wasn't very many of them in the book

[The Slim Reaper]

I can't watch it now (I'm at work) but I read that the letters were genuine but that there wasn't very many of them

Not sure, but the women being interviewed is the one who had her work plagiarised for Letters to Christopher. Maybe the letters are genuine, and she's just embellished the parts that are filler.

[Niamh.]

Not sure, but the women being interviewed is the one who had her work plagiarised for Letters to Christopher. Maybe the letters are, and she's just embellished the parts that are filler.

I just listened to the first 2 minutes and she's saying that she took her voice and thoughts and acted if they were her own so i would think she's referring to her own commentary in the book rather than the letters. The letters are hand written and you can view them online so I would presume that those parts are genuine

[The Slim Reaper]

I would like to think I'd definitely not delete stuff that could help Police convict him tbh

Regarding her going to Police before they knew about her, I've read reports that they did know about her before she came forward. Also, they were in a new relationship but she had googled both Chris and Shan'ann up to a year before the relationship started and before Chris even knew her which is really really odd :

The discovery documents examined by CrimeOnline included a “Phone Data Review,” which showed the internet search history of principals in the case, including Kessinger. The recovered phone data, which included some entries that had been deleted from her search history, appear to show that Kessinger did online searches for the names Shanann Watts and Chris Watts as far back as 2017, and on multiple occasions before both she and Chris Watts said their affair began. A records supervisor initially told CrimeOnline that an entry for a Google search of Shanann Watts in September 2017 was a “typo” in the report. But Weld County District Attorney Michael Rourke later said, in a December 2018 interview with CrimeOnline, that the items in the report accurately reflected what was found in the data review.
https://www.crimeonline.com/2020/10/02/chris-watts-mistress-does-nichol-kessinger-know-more-than-she-let-on/

The police have come out and said Nicole searching that far back was a typo. They haven't offered any further corrections on what was wrong, or what they meant to say, just that it's wrong.

[Niamh.]

The police have come out and said Nicole searching that far back was a typo. They haven't offered any further corrections on what was wrong, or what they meant to say, just that it's wrong.

It was said it was a typo and then it was said that it wasn't a typo and that the dates were correct. I need to find that hang on

[Niamh.]

“It’s not a typographical error in the report. [The detectives] are reporting what was contained in the data from her phone. I don’t know the answer to the question of why or how those dates ended up in her phone.”

https://www.crimeonline.com/2020/10/02/chris-watts-mistress-does-nichol-kessinger-know-more-than-she-let-on/#:~:text=%E2%80%9CThe%20dates%20to%20which%20you,t ypographical%20error%20in%20the%20report.&text=%E2%80%9CNichol%20Kessinger%20told%20us%20tha t,in%202018%2C%E2%80%9D%20Rourke%20said.

[The Slim Reaper]

It was said it was a typo and then it was said that it wasn't a typo and that the dates were correct. I need to find that hang on



“It’s not a typographical error in the report. [The detectives] are reporting what was contained in the data from her phone. I don’t know the answer to the question of why or how those dates ended up in her phone.”

https://www.crimeonline.com/2020/10/02/chris-watts-mistress-does-nichol-kessinger-know-more-than-she-let-on/#:~:text=%E2%80%9CThe%20dates%20to%20which%20you,t ypographical%20error%20in%20the%20report.&text=%E2%80%9CNichol%20Kessinger%20told%20us%20tha t,in%202018%2C%E2%80%9D%20Rourke%20said.

Ahh ok, that makes sense then.

[Niamh.]

Have you heard that phone conversation where Chris is saying he's found god and that god has a plan for him outside of prison? Apparently he's currently looking for some loophole to get himself out.............don't ask me how he thinks that's even remotely possible considering he plead guilty and confessed on numerous occasions

[Niamh.]

This is an interesting video into the psychology if Chris Watts, if anyone is interested

Xq8mo1tSPCI

[Ammi]

...it was an interesting listen and also what a ‘rarity’ he is in that she’d only met one ‘Chris’ in her entire career...no one could ever know when/if they were in the presence of a Chris...there would be no signs as such, which is a terrifying thought...

[The Slim Reaper]

Have you heard that phone conversation where Chris is saying he's found god and that god has a plan for him outside of prison? Apparently he's currently looking for some loophole to get himself out.............don't ask me how he thinks that's even remotely possible considering he plead guilty and confessed on numerous occasions

Yeah. I think that's the realisation hitting him that he's stuck behind bars for another 40-60 years. His emotions have probably been in a mess, and he's been grieving himself; not for the family he murdered, but his lost relationship with nicky. As everything has calmed down, reality has deservedly kicked him in the balls, so it's probably a coping mechanism; believing that he can get out and gives him something to aim for.

[Niamh.]

Yeah. I think that's the realisation hitting him that he's stuck behind bars for another 40-60 years. His emotions have probably been in a mess, and he's been grieving himself; not for the family he murdered, but his lost relationship with nicky. As everything has calmed down, reality has deservedly kicked him in the balls, so it's probably a coping mechanism; believing that he can get out and gives him something to aim for.Not even the relationship with Nikki I think but his lost relationship with freedom