USA: Philadelphia man (with a Knife) shot dead by police

[arista]

His mother was behind him
if only she grabbed the knife from her son?


NBC Oct. 27, 2020, 11:16 AM GMT / Updated Oct. 27, 2020, 9:42 PM GMT
By Rachel Elbaum, Kurt Chirbas, Colin Sheeley and Julie Goldstein

[Police in Philadelphia shot and killed a Black man
on Monday, triggering protests that saw at
least 30 officers injured, officials said.
Police said they shot Walter Wallace Jr., 27, after
responding to a call about a man armed with a knife.
The responding officers ordered Wallace
“several times” to drop the knife and he
continued to “advance towards” them,
according to a statement.
They then fired their weapons “multiple times,”
shooting him in the chest and shoulder,
and he was pronounced dead at
the hospital just after 4 p.m., the statement added.

Wallace was recently married,
and had seven children and one on the way,
according to a statement from
his cousin Carnell Hurley made on
behalf of his family.
He was shot in front of his mother and brother, Hurley said.

Hurley said in the statement that Wallace
was “at least 20 feet away” from
the officers and they “shot a dozen shots.”]


https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/black-man-shot-dead-police-philadelphia-sparking-heated-protests-n1244888

[caprimint]

I mean it was either the police get killed or him :shrug:

[Ammi]

...I don’t understand why it so often seems to be shoot to kill...Surely tasers could have been used or a shot to disable him so an arrest could have been possible...

[Cherie]

Or shoot him in the leg

[arista]

...I don’t understand why it so often seems to be shoot to kill...Surely tasers could have been used or a shot to disable him so an arrest could have been possible...

Not all forces have Tasers

[Ammi]

Not all forces have Tasers

...what about shooting to disable and prevent, rather than kill, then...(...assuming there’s was no tasers available for this force...)...loss of life should always be a last resort, rather than a first reaction, which is sadly too often seen to happen...

[bots]

...what about shooting to disable and prevent, rather than kill, then...(...assuming there’s was no tasers available for this force...)...loss of life should always be a last resort, rather than a first reaction, which is sadly too often seen to happen...

you never shoot to disable Ammi, its next to impossible and requires extreme skill, not something most cops will be trained for. If they shoot, they intend to kill

[Ammi]

you never shoot to disable Ammi, its next to impossible and requires extreme skill, not something most cops will be trained for. If they shoot, they intend to kill

....but police officers swear an oath to disable, in effect...putting an armed weapon into the hands of a police officer without giving the training required to adhere to that oath wherever possible is really enabling the ‘killing of’ and very far from upholding law and order or even attempting...is the point...I mean, we wouldn’t accept that from a medical person who took an oath, would we...oh sod it, let them die...


‘I will respect the humanity of those whom I encounter, both victim and suspect alike. I will treat life as sacrosanct and will only use deadly physical force as a last resort. If I must employ deadly force, I will strive to preserve life once it has been applied.‘

[Parmy]

Live by the sword, you die by the sword I'm afraid.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Why shooting to wound doesn’t make sense scientifically, legally, or tactically

When I encounter civilian response to officer-involved shootings, it’s very
often ‘Why didn’t they just shoot him in the leg?’” Dr. Bill Lewinski, executive
director of the Force Science Institute, told Force Science News in a 2006
interview centered on Paterson’s proposed legislation. “When civilians judge
police shooting deaths–on juries, on review boards, in the media, in the
community–this same argument is often brought forward. Shooting to wound
is naively regarded as a reasonable means of stopping dangerous behavior.


“In reality, this thinking is a result of ‘training by Hollywood,’ in which movie
and TV cops are able to do anything to control the outcomes of events that
serve the director’s dramatic interests. It reflects a misconception of real-life
dynamics and ends up imposing unrealistic expectations of skill on real-life officers.”

“Hands and arms can be the fastest-moving body parts. For example, an average suspect can move his hand and forearm across his body to a 90-degree angle in 12/100 of a second. He can move his hand from his hip to shoulder height in 18/100 of a second.

“The average officer pulling the trigger as fast as he can on a Glock, one of the fastest- cycling semi-autos, requires 1/4 second to discharge each round.

“There is no way an officer can react, track, shoot and reliably hit a threatening suspect’s forearm or a weapon in a suspect’s hand in the time spans involved.

“Even if the suspect held his weapon arm steady for half a second or more, an accurate hit would be highly unlikely, and in police shootings the suspect and his weapon are seldom stationary. Plus, the officer himself may be moving as he shoots.


more details here: https://www.police1.com/patrol-issues/articles/why-shooting-to-wound-doesnt-make-sense-scientifically-legally-or-tactically-6bOdYvNUEECtIWRI/

[Crimson Dynamo]

this is also why forming certain opinions and organisations by sketchy videos by civilians is also a very bad idea...

[Nicky91]

it was self-defence by the police, case closed

[Ammi]

...the mayor has just asked for the case to be opened, Inspector Nicky...:laugh:..I’m sure that they’ll look at it a bit before they close it...I hope that’ll happen anyway...

[Nicky91]

...the mayor has just asked for the case to be opened, Inspector Nicky...:laugh:..I’m sure that they’ll look at it a bit before they close it...I hope that’ll happen anyway...

:umm2: why because of some loser protesters now


he is not supposed to have a knife on him out on the streets, he could've stabbed multiple people to death, he was a threat and he was taken down

[Oliver_W]

Jeez, so riots even kick off when the person shot was attacking the police with a knife?

[Crimson Dynamo]

Jeez, so riots even kick off when the person shot was attacking the police with a knife?

It tells you all you need to know about the true motivation...

[Nicky91]

It tells you all you need to know about the true motivation...

yep, everything to seek attention for likes and because those people are just feeling bored otherwise

[arista]

you never shoot to disable Ammi, its next to impossible and requires extreme skill, not something most cops will be trained for. If they shoot, they intend to kill



Yes it's the American Police Force

[Ammi]

Yes it's the American Police Force

...an American Police Force oath...

‘I will respect the humanity of those whom I encounter, both victim and suspect alike. I will treat life as sacrosanct and will only use deadly physical force as a last resort. If I must employ deadly force, I will strive to preserve life once it has been applied.‘

[bots]

...an American Police Force oath...

‘I will respect the humanity of those whom I encounter, both victim and suspect alike. I will treat life as sacrosanct and will only use deadly physical force as a last resort. If I must employ deadly force, I will strive to preserve life once it has been applied.‘

Ammi, someone who is repeatedly asked to drop a knife he is carrying that continues to advance toward the police is a last resort scenario.

I fully respect that people are unlawfully killed by police in america and they should be held accountable, but the reporting of this event doesn't suggest that is applicable in this case

responding to a call about a man armed with a knife.
The responding officers ordered Wallace
“several times” to drop the knife and he
continued to “advance towards” them,
according to a statement

[Ammi]

Ammi, someone who is repeatedly asked to drop a knife he is carrying that continues to advance toward the police is a last resort scenario.

I fully respect that people are unlawfully killed by police in america and they should be held accountable, but the reporting of this event doesn't suggest that is applicable in this case

...that still completely contradicts and betrays the oath, though because a more disabling shot could have been what happened...rather than a shoot to kill...the force could have also been armed with less lethal weapons such as tasers...(...if that’s not something they usually would have had anyway...)...Armed officers should be adequately trained in preserving life when they’re forced to open fire...whichever way it’s flipped, it’s a total disregard for life by the justice system in not providing training...hence a responsibility there...

[Ammi]

Ammi, someone who is repeatedly asked to drop a knife he is carrying that continues to advance toward the police is a last resort scenario.

I fully respect that people are unlawfully killed by police in america and they should be held accountable, but the reporting of this event doesn't suggest that is applicable in this case

...that still doesn’t justify ‘shoot to kill’ mentality, though...

[Nicky91]

Ammi, someone who is repeatedly asked to drop a knife he is carrying that continues to advance toward the police is a last resort scenario.

I fully respect that people are unlawfully killed by police in america and they should be held accountable, but the reporting of this event doesn't suggest that is applicable in this case

exactly, they gave him multiple warnings to stand down, he didn't and he approached them with the knife so yeah he was a threat

others may have been unlawfully killed by police, but here in this scenario they had to shoot to kill

[Liam-]

No deescelation, no attempts to disarm him, another tick in the trigger happy cops box

[Niamh.]

Ammi, someone who is repeatedly asked to drop a knife he is carrying that continues to advance toward the police is a last resort scenario.

I fully respect that people are unlawfully killed by police in america and they should be held accountable, but the reporting of this event doesn't suggest that is applicable in this case

It was a knife though not a gun, surely the Police should be trained to disable 1 guy rather than shoot to kill? If this kind of thing happened here in Ireland or in the UK, I'd be willing to bet this man wouldn't be dead now

[Ammi]

Ammi, someone who is repeatedly asked to drop a knife he is carrying that continues to advance toward the police is a last resort scenario.

I fully respect that people are unlawfully killed by police in america and they should be held accountable, but the reporting of this event doesn't suggest that is applicable in this case

...I fully respect also that a shot might have been necessary in this case, bots..(...although I do feel that a taser would have been more applicable..)..but a shot doesn’t have to be a shot to kill and the police force of all people should respect life enough to train for those shots...there is no ‘justice’ in shooting someone dead and upholding justice is what it’s about...

[Crimson Dynamo]

No one is shooting to kill they are shooting to stop a threat

One bullet in the leg can kill

5 to the torso may not

it depends on so many factor beyond anyone's control


They stopped the imminent threat to lives and well done to the brave officers who do this for their job

every day they clock in they could be killed

[Parmy]

No one is shooting to kill they are shooting to stop a threat

One bullet in the leg can kill

5 to the torso may not

it depends on so many factor beyond anyone's control




They stopped the imminent threat to lives and well done to the brave officers who do this for their job

every day they clock in they could be killed

:clap1:

[Denver]

Given police guns gives them the right to murder without repercussions

[Denver]

No one is shooting to kill they are shooting to stop a threat

One bullet in the leg can kill

5 to the torso may not

it depends on so many factor beyond anyone's control


They stopped the imminent threat to lives and well done to the brave officers who do this for their job

every day they clock in they could be killed

Yes because the best way to stop a threat is to shoot them in the heart instead of using a brain to disarm

[Crimson Dynamo]

VqOwFmBm4G8

[bots]

There’s some more from Claudia Lauer of the Associated Press on the family of Walter Wallace Jr, the 27 year old Black man who was shot dead by police in Philadelphia on Monday afternoon, leading to two nights of protest.

The family lawyer says they had called for an ambulance to get him help with a mental health crisis, not for police intervention.

Police have said he was wielding a knife and ignored orders to drop the weapon before officers fired shots. His parents said that officers knew their son was in a mental health crisis because they had been to the family’s house three times on Monday.

Cathy Wallace, his mother, said one of the times, “they stood there and laughed at us.”

The Wallace family’s attorney, Shaka Johnson, said the man’s wife, Dominique Wallace, is pregnant and is scheduled to have labor induced Wednesday. Johnson said Wallace had nine children, two of whom briefly spoke at a news conference late Tuesday, along with Walter Wallace’s mother and father.

“When you come to a scene where somebody is in a mental crisis, and the only tool you have to deal with it is a gun ... where are the proper tools for the job?” Johnson said, arguing that Philadelphia police officers are not properly trained to handle mental health crises.

Johnson said Wallace’s brother had called 911 to request medical assistance and ambulance.

[The Slim Reaper]

There was that video of the white guy aggressively approaching american police whilst wielding a knife aggressively. He wasn't killed. Let me see if I can find it.

[Redway]

it was self-defence by the police, case closed

You’re not serious.

[Nicky91]

You’re not serious.

no because sadly it isn't just that simple

also if they shot him in the leg or something, he could've still crawled forward and injured you for example in the leg or foot

this man disobeyed multiple warnings to stand down, but he kept approaching the officer with that knife

[Niamh.]

There’s some more from Claudia Lauer of the Associated Press on the family of Walter Wallace Jr, the 27 year old Black man who was shot dead by police in Philadelphia on Monday afternoon, leading to two nights of protest.

The family lawyer says they had called for an ambulance to get him help with a mental health crisis, not for police intervention.

Police have said he was wielding a knife and ignored orders to drop the weapon before officers fired shots. His parents said that officers knew their son was in a mental health crisis because they had been to the family’s house three times on Monday.

Cathy Wallace, his mother, said one of the times, “they stood there and laughed at us.”

The Wallace family’s attorney, Shaka Johnson, said the man’s wife, Dominique Wallace, is pregnant and is scheduled to have labor induced Wednesday. Johnson said Wallace had nine children, two of whom briefly spoke at a news conference late Tuesday, along with Walter Wallace’s mother and father.

“When you come to a scene where somebody is in a mental crisis, and the only tool you have to deal with it is a gun ... where are the proper tools for the job?” Johnson said, arguing that Philadelphia police officers are not properly trained to handle mental health crises.

Johnson said Wallace’s brother had called 911 to request medical assistance and ambulance.

Very sad and you know the first thing that's said when a white man shoots up a cinema or whatever is that they have mental health issues and here is a genuine case where the guy-who hadn't even hurt anyone- could have been helped.

[The Slim Reaper]

no because sadly it isn't just that simple

also if they shot him in the leg or something, he could've still crawled forward and injured you for example in the leg or foot

this man disobeyed multiple warnings to stand down, but he kept approaching the officer with that knife

Is this how you picture a dude shot in the leg?

https://media1.tenor.com/images/ca2d5e1992e7b6ecc3cd252edd189eff/tenor.gif?itemid=11745819

[Ammi]

There’s some more from Claudia Lauer of the Associated Press on the family of Walter Wallace Jr, the 27 year old Black man who was shot dead by police in Philadelphia on Monday afternoon, leading to two nights of protest.

The family lawyer says they had called for an ambulance to get him help with a mental health crisis, not for police intervention.

Police have said he was wielding a knife and ignored orders to drop the weapon before officers fired shots. His parents said that officers knew their son was in a mental health crisis because they had been to the family’s house three times on Monday.

Cathy Wallace, his mother, said one of the times, “they stood there and laughed at us.”

The Wallace family’s attorney, Shaka Johnson, said the man’s wife, Dominique Wallace, is pregnant and is scheduled to have labor induced Wednesday. Johnson said Wallace had nine children, two of whom briefly spoke at a news conference late Tuesday, along with Walter Wallace’s mother and father.

“When you come to a scene where somebody is in a mental crisis, and the only tool you have to deal with it is a gun ... where are the proper tools for the job?” Johnson said, arguing that Philadelphia police officers are not properly trained to handle mental health crises.

Johnson said Wallace’s brother had called 911 to request medical assistance and ambulance.


...so sad, which is why it can never be acceptable that police training isn’t given to aim to preserve life, not to take it as a first option...to hand over an armed weapon but not invest more in training in use must surely have culpability in cases like this...

[Cherie]

There’s some more from Claudia Lauer of the Associated Press on the family of Walter Wallace Jr, the 27 year old Black man who was shot dead by police in Philadelphia on Monday afternoon, leading to two nights of protest.

The family lawyer says they had called for an ambulance to get him help with a mental health crisis, not for police intervention.

Police have said he was wielding a knife and ignored orders to drop the weapon before officers fired shots. His parents said that officers knew their son was in a mental health crisis because they had been to the family’s house three times on Monday.

Cathy Wallace, his mother, said one of the times, “they stood there and laughed at us.”

The Wallace family’s attorney, Shaka Johnson, said the man’s wife, Dominique Wallace, is pregnant and is scheduled to have labor induced Wednesday. Johnson said Wallace had nine children, two of whom briefly spoke at a news conference late Tuesday, along with Walter Wallace’s mother and father.

“When you come to a scene where somebody is in a mental crisis, and the only tool you have to deal with it is a gun ... where are the proper tools for the job?” Johnson said, arguing that Philadelphia police officers are not properly trained to handle mental health crises.

Johnson said Wallace’s brother had called 911 to request medical assistance and ambulance.

that is beyond belief

[Crimson Dynamo]

If they are high on drugs one two or three bullets may not stop them.

But with 10 million interactions a year with USA citizens there will be

1. man with knife talked down

2. man with knife tazered

3. man with knife shot

4. man with knife tackled and disarmed

5. man with knife tackled by citizen

6. Man with knife run over by citizen

7. man with knife passes out

8. man with knife stabs himself

and so on and so on probably up to 10,000 or so


just try and think what 10,000,000 looks like with the most weaponised nation on earth

[Liam-]

Trigger happy cops shouldn’t be the people sent to deal with mental health emergencies, they’re not trained for it, as seen with that young boy they nearly killed because he was running away from them, state sponsored thugs with guns should not be allowed to choose whether someone in a medical state of emergency should live or die, end of.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Trigger happy cops shouldn’t be the people sent to deal with mental health emergencies, they’re not trained for it, as seen with that young boy they nearly killed because he was running away from them, state sponsored thugs with guns should not be allowed to choose whether someone in a medical state of emergency should live or die, end of.

yes it should be social work

but wait he is coming at the social worker with a knife

call da cops QUICK

[Kazanne]

Why are protesters looting ? isn't this protest supposed to against the killing of a man ?

[Denver]

Why are protesters looting ? isn't this protest supposed to against the killing of a man ?

Why did the women loot in protests over 100 years ago? Or the LGBT community?

[arista]

The Dad of the dead son
pleaded with the public - to not loot.
His son died, but stop looting

[arista]

Why are protesters looting ? isn't this protest supposed to against the killing of a man ?



Yes it upset
the Family, they asked for Criminal Looters to stop.

[bots]

Why did the women loot in protests over 100 years ago? Or the LGBT community?

and we used to throw feces at people we didn't like, it doesn't mean we should keep doing it

[Denver]

and we used to throw feces at people we didn't like, it doesn't mean we should keep doing it

Voices don't work as history has proven

[Crimson Dynamo]

twHpOyY43ZM


Protest about a legal act by doing illegal acts

you do the math

[Oliver_W]

Voices don't work as history has proven

There's nothing to voice in this case :shrug: Someone getting shot for attacking the police with a knife doesn't give a bunch of people, most of whom probably never even met him, to assault police officers and wreak havoc.

[Ammi]

District Attorney Larry Krasner told NBC10 most of the hundreds of people who were arrested for looting and vandalism in the city over the weekend were Philadelphians between the ages of 18 and 24 who weren't associated with the protests...


https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/most-looters-and-vandals-appear-to-be-young-philadelphians-not-associated-with-the-protests-da-says/2416086/


...no one is condoning the looting, which is separate from any protesting...

[Oliver_W]

District Attorney Larry Krasner told NBC10 most of the hundreds of people who were arrested for looting and vandalism in the city over the weekend were Philadelphians between the ages of 18 and 24 who weren't associated with the protests...


https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/most-looters-and-vandals-appear-to-be-young-philadelphians-not-associated-with-the-protests-da-says/2416086/


...no one is condoning the looting, which is separate from any protesting...

Then I look forward to BLM condemning their violent actions :hehe:

[bots]

any riots this close to an election are highly questionable politically. No-one can say with certainty who is behind it

[Ammi]

any riots this close to an election are highly questionable politically. No-one can say with certainty who is behind it

...*cough* Turning Point USA...who said that, I didn’t hear anything...

[arista]

Trigger happy cops shouldn’t be the people sent to deal with mental health emergencies, they’re not trained for it, as seen with that young boy they nearly killed because he was running away from them, state sponsored thugs with guns should not be allowed to choose whether someone in a medical state of emergency should live or die, end of.


Liam they arrive
there is no one they can trust..........
The Man goes Forward with the Deadly Knife
at them.

On that basis they told him to drop the weapon
he refused carried on walking forward
they are legal to shoot him dead.


USA Laws
are not like any other place.