Mary Wollstonecraft/Naked statue of seminal feminist thinker provokes anger...

[Ammi]

1326176586895384581

When campaigners unveiled a sculpture in honour of Mary Wollstonecraft, they expressed hope that it would “start a conversation”.

Unfortunately, the conversation revolved around why the sculptor, Maggi Hambling, had chosen to represent the “mother of feminism” as what one critic described as looking “like someone stuck a Barbie doll on top of a kebab”.

To the horror of academics, Hambling produced a naked “Everywoman” with a model’s physique, standing atop a silvery mass. It prompted many to ask why famous men are never commemorated without their clothes.

“Who on earth saw the design for this and thought, ‘Yes, the woman who wrote The Vindication of the Rights of Woman would love this’?” asked Dr Amanda Dillon of the University of East Anglia.

“Have we ever, EVER had a statue of a major male thinker that looked a) nothing like them and b) like a Pornhub Christmas decoration?” said Dr Louise Raw, the historian.

Prof Amanda Vickery, the historian and television presenter, tweeted: “Wollstonecraft insisted women were equal souls. WHY a nude?” And Emily Cock, lecturer at Cardiff University’s School of History, remarked: “Finally, public acknowledgement that women in the eighteenth century were stark naked and extremely small.”

Caroline Criado Perez, the feminist campaigner, called the piece “a colossal waste”, saying: This feels disrespectful to Wollstonecraft herself and isn’t that the most important part?”

Dr Una McIlvenna, a senior lecturer in history at the University of Melbourne, joking shared a picture on social media of a naked male model and captioned it: “Here’s a statue I just made to honour the memory of John Lennon.”

...full article....

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/mary-wollstonecraft-sculpture-naked-statue-001949559.html

[Niamh.]

Ugh I saw this, how ****ing disrespectful to who she was and what she stood for........and to women in general actually

[Niamh.]

This comment from Author Caitlin Moran :laugh:

“It’s not making me angry in any way because I just KNOW the streets will soon be full of statues depicting John Locke’s shiny testicles, Nelson Mandela’s proud penis, and Descarte’s adorable arse,” wrote author Caitlin Moran on Twitter.

https://news.artnet.com/art-world/mary-wollstonecraft-statue-uproar-1922522

[user104658]

https://i.imgur.com/Eyq6h5V.png

[Ammi]

...I could get quite behind this ‘let’s pull the statues down’, thing....

[Ammi]

https://i.imgur.com/Eyq6h5V.png

...is this you unzipped and ungimped...?...

[Ammi]

...I can’t even believe that I just asked that question of someone...

[Ammi]

...Maggi Hambling, the sculpture is a local lady to me...


https://www.eadt.co.uk/polopoly_fs/1.6925340!/image/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_630/image.jpg


...an article from one of the local media’s....

https://www.eadt.co.uk/news/mary-wollstonecraft-statue-row-maggi-hambling-response-1-6925341

[bots]

it's obviously been done to create controversy

[arista]

They appear to be Happy about this,
as it's now a Worldwide talking point.

[Ammi]

it's obviously been done to create controversy

...not according to the artist...it’s for Mary Wollstonecraft, not of her...dedicated to her....and because clothing is part of what defines someone...(...is what the artist feels...)...then the naked form makes her ‘Everywoman’...which she feels is apt...

[Crimson Dynamo]

take up with the "artist" lady who "made" it

btw its sh1t (like most art)

[Oliver_W]

“Have we ever, EVER had a statue of a major male thinker that looked a) nothing like them and b) like a Pornhub Christmas decoration?” said Dr Louise Raw, the historian.

Well, "doctor", there was a statue of a giant nude man, called ... The Thinker.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/_MoBd7rx1ryGdZXYBoTjfuh71E6_0Qilg2pe9yOp40tE5vbBcA dF6JwQTDb87uqZUGjVoo-i9nScNrawwFjUY2-dNMbMzh44g48Wqo39gk86uySzk1Ogk0I3

[Niamh.]

Well, "doctor", there was a statue of a giant nude man, called ... The Thinker.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/_MoBd7rx1ryGdZXYBoTjfuh71E6_0Qilg2pe9yOp40tE5vbBcA dF6JwQTDb87uqZUGjVoo-i9nScNrawwFjUY2-dNMbMzh44g48Wqo39gk86uySzk1Ogk0I3

Yes but he wasn't representing an actual real life male thinker was he?

[Oliver_W]

Yes but he wasn't representing an actual real life male thinker was he?

He was called Thinkie McThinkface :hmph:

[Niamh.]

He was called Thinkie McThinkface :hmph:

Winkie McThinkface more like :oh:

[user104658]

Well, "doctor", there was a statue of a giant nude man, called ... The Thinker.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/_MoBd7rx1ryGdZXYBoTjfuh71E6_0Qilg2pe9yOp40tE5vbBcA dF6JwQTDb87uqZUGjVoo-i9nScNrawwFjUY2-dNMbMzh44g48Wqo39gk86uySzk1Ogk0I3

Me on the toilet every morning pondering the latest SD threads.

[user104658]

Winkie McThinkface more like :oh:

Thinkie McWinkieface.

[UserSince2005]

definitely a feminist and not a gardener.

[Crimson Dynamo]

https://i.insider.com/5b461d6520e3a84a008b458d?width=700&format=jpeg&auto=webp

[user104658]

https://i.insider.com/5b461d6520e3a84a008b458d?width=700&format=jpeg&auto=webp

https://i.imgur.com/aGyXNVV.png

[Oliver_W]

https://static.standard.co.uk/2020/11/11/09/2020-11-11T084212Z_1689451397_RC2W0K9HRQEV_RTRMADP_3_BRITA IN-STATUE.JPG?width=990
https://static.standard.co.uk/2020/11/11/09/2020-11-11T083612Z_225531655_RC2W0K9XW9P2_RTRMADP_3_BRITAI N-STATUE.JPG?width=640

Covered up by a feminist t-shirt :laugh:

[Kizzy]

Do you know what? I think I get it.
Feminism should be about the power to see beyond the female form. That's what I take from it, covering it up is just playing to the view that women are ornamental and the form an example of the evolution in women's liberation she represents.
This embody feminism and this feminist in particular as unashamedly and unapologetically a woman .

[Scarlett.]

The other one seemed much more respectful tbh
https://www.hackneycitizen.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/wollstonecraftstatue1-620.jpg

[thesheriff443]

take up with the "artist" lady who "made" it

btw its sh1t (like most art)

Two bricks and your genitals, now that would be a work of art.

[thesheriff443]

I’ve got a lot of time for the female form.

Ask a thousand people to look at a blank piece of paper and say what they can see and each one will see something different.

[LaLaLand]

This is typical Maggi Hambling, she's not one to go the usual route.

I'm a big fan of Hambling and can kind of see her thinking here, but yeah... Not the best of decisions.

[LaLaLand]

Do you know what? I think I get it.
Feminism should be about the power to see beyond the female form. That's what I take from it, covering it up is just playing to the view that women are ornamental and the form an example of the evolution in women's liberation she represents.
This embody feminism and this feminist in particular as unashamedly and unapologetically a woman .

This is a great interpretation - agreed!

[Kizzy]

This is a great interpretation - agreed!

Wow thanks, was expecting a chorus of disapproval as per lol :D

[Ammi]

...I do get that the naked form gives an equality as it were...a male/female levelling that she wanted to give...clothing does create a defining...so I get the thoughts behind that..I just don’t like it aesthetically at all...it doesn’t ‘capture female’ for me in any way that would create a feeling of the power of woman...and also because one of the things that woman has always been greatly judged on is that physical form, rather than her whole self and in a way that man hasn’t....if this is a sculpture that was intended to represent an equality reached/...a ‘levelling’ to male....?...it just hasn’t for me....

[hijaxers]

Ugh I saw this, how ****ing disrespectful to who she was and what she stood for........and to women in general actually

Agreed Its bloody awful , put it straight into the melting pot !

[Mystic Mock]

Emily Cock.:laugh3:

I'm sorry I couldn't help it, that surname.:joker:

Being serious though I don't get why sculptors can't seem to get famous peoples looks correctly. I mean I've still got the image of that Cristiano Ronaldo statue a few years ago running inside my head.:joker:

[Niamh.]

Do you know what? I think I get it.
Feminism should be about the power to see beyond the female form. That's what I take from it, covering it up is just playing to the view that women are ornamental and the form an example of the evolution in women's liberation she represents.
This embody feminism and this feminist in particular as unashamedly and unapologetically a woman .Totally disagree

[Cherie]

https://i.imgur.com/aGyXNVV.png

:joker:

[Kizzy]

Totally disagree
Ok, like I said wasn't expecting anyone to agree. That's the only way I can see it as depicting someone or something, as a metaphorical representation.

[Niamh.]

Ok, like I said wasn't expecting anyone to agree. That's the only way I can see it as depicting someone or something, as a metaphorical representation.

As a representation of feminism though? It seems to fly in the face of it imo, obviously there's nothing wrong with the female form but a lot of the views of feminists is that women should not be objectified which happens to women far too much already

[Tom4784]

I saw a BBC article that put both arguments forward and I saw things I agreed with on both sides but mainly I just think it's a **** statue that looks unfinished. They should have just gone with a more direct representation of Mary, rather than an artistic interpretation.

[Crimson Dynamo]

https://i.imgur.com/aGyXNVV.png

:joker:

[Ammi]

...I was thinking about this again this morning and thinking how off the mark I feel it is, really...because the vein of it was always going to put the focus onto the nakedness, rather than the achievements of Mary Wollstonecraft...I feel as though a male statue could have had a naked form but still the focus naturally kept on him, on who he was and his great significance etc...that it wouldn’t have detracted...but with a female, somehow it does ...and that’s because ‘physical’ has been a huge part of the judgement of females through time...’oh look at Mary naked, what do we think...’...etc...shouldn’t at all be what any headline or reporting is with it...it should be ‘Mary achieved excellence in her passion for female equality...’....and this art piece is a tribute to that...statues have been such a talking point thing of recent times...should we have them/should we replace some etc...and all because of the layers of historical people, because of their depth and who they are and the paths of their lives ...but the talking point with this and the depth of Mary is that she’s naked and the discussion of why the artist has her naked...surely that’s what makes it an awful depiction as well...

[Kizzy]

As a representation of feminism though? It seems to fly in the face of it imo, obviously there's nothing wrong with the female form but a lot of the views of feminists is that women should not be objectified which happens to women far too much already

Where is she being objectified? I know she's naked but it's in no way a sexualised image, for me that flies on the face of feminism if you can never depict a naked female form because it's anticipated it will be criticised, discredited or ogled. Then what's the point?
Where's the strength...the unashamed power... the depth?
Personally I'm sick of these chocolate box representation's , to me they say very little about the style and substance of the subject.

[Elliot]

Where is she being objectified? I know she's naked but it's in no way a sexualised image, for me that flies on the face of feminism if you can never depict a naked female form because it's anticipated it will be criticised, discredited or ogled. Then what's the point?
Where's the strength...the unashamed power... the depth?
Personally I'm sick of these chocolate box representation's , to me they say very little about the style and substance of the subject.

Agree 100%

[Kazanne]

I have no issues about a statue to this lady by WHY does she have to be fully naked ? it wont be long before it's defaced etc.

[Kazanne]

As a representation of feminism though? It seems to fly in the face of it imo, obviously there's nothing wrong with the female form but a lot of the views of feminists is that women should not be objectified which happens to women far too much already

100% agree

[Niamh.]

Where is she being objectified? I know she's naked but it's in no way a sexualised image, for me that flies on the face of feminism if you can never depict a naked female form because it's anticipated it will be criticised, discredited or ogled. Then what's the point?
Where's the strength...the unashamed power... the depth?
Personally I'm sick of these chocolate box representation's , to me they say very little about the style and substance of the subject.

I've never said you can never depict a naked female, I've just said I didn't think in this case it was the right call, I think it detracts from the woman it's supposed to represent and takes focus off her achievements.

[user104658]

Where is she being objectified? I know she's naked but it's in no way a sexualised image, for me that flies on the face of feminism if you can never depict a naked female form because it's anticipated it will be criticised, discredited or ogled. Then what's the point?
Where's the strength...the unashamed power... the depth?
Personally I'm sick of these chocolate box representation's , to me they say very little about the style and substance of the subject.

There she goes again, Ms. Patriarchy telling women that the only way to empower themselves is to cater to the male gaze :idc:

[arista]

A Woman has put a T-Shirt over
that Naked lady in the park.

That Lady just said we do not get Karl Marx to get his willy out.


Ch5HD Live AM show.

[Niamh.]

A Woman has put a T-Shirt over
that Naked lady in the park.

That Lady just said we do not get Karl Marx to get his willy out.


Ch5HD Live AM show.

Exactly. This is the problem, it's not being prudish about nude statues or artwork or whatever, it's what this one is supposed to represent it cheapens and disrespects Mary Wollstonecraft and what she represented

[Ammi]

...’Today she remains an enduring symbol of the ongoing fight against misogyny and sexual injustice...’....

[Kazanne]

Exactly. This is the problem, it's not being prudish about nude statues or artwork or whatever, it's what this one is supposed to represent it cheapens and disrespects Mary Wollstonecraft and what she represented

Exactly, I don't think the woman herself would be very impressed either, besides the nakedness it's a bloody ugly statue. I didn't know either that her daughter was Mary Shelly, could have been nice to depict them together.

[Ammi]

Exactly, I don't think the woman herself would be very impressed either, besides the nakedness it's a bloody ugly statue. I didn't know either that her daughter was Mary Shelly, could have been nice to depict them together.

...I think that she died in childbirth with Mary or shortly after, Kaz...

[Ammi]

...Mary Shelley, I meant...both Mary’s obviously...

[Niamh.]

Exactly, I don't think the woman herself would be very impressed either, besides the nakedness it's a bloody ugly statue. I didn't know either that her daughter was Mary Shelly, could have been nice to depict them together.

Yeah that's true, both brilliant women

[bots]

the sculptor was making a statement with the statue rather than letting the persons life, that the statue depicts, make the statement

[Oliver_W]

the sculptor was making a statement with the statue rather than letting the persons life, that the statue depicts, make the statement

That's the thing though, it's like when Angela Raynor called that/those Tory MP/s scum, her doing so became the entire story. It took the narrative away, and all people were talking about was that she said a nasty word :eyeroll:

The statue does the same, it turns Wollstonecraft into "that woman with the naked statue" instead of who and what she is and achieved.

[Kazanne]

...I think that she died in childbirth with Mary or shortly after, Kaz...

Oh ,that's sad ,I do suppose this has us talking about her more, I knew nothing about her.

[Kazanne]

That's the thing though, it's like when Angela Raynor called that/those Tory MP/s scum, her doing so became the entire story. It took the narrative away, and all people were talking about was that she said a nasty word :eyeroll:

The statue does the same, it turns Wollstonecraft into "that woman with the naked statue" instead of who and what she is and achieved.

Yes,this exactly.

[user104658]

the sculptor was making a statement with the statue rather than letting the persons life, that the statue depicts, make the statementQuite right Bots, and her life was about feminism, which (as we know) is mostly about boobies and vaginas and other associated lady paraphernalia.

[Kizzy]

I've never said you can never depict a naked female, I've just said I didn't think in this case it was the right call, I think it detracts from the woman it's supposed to represent and takes focus off her achievements.

I don't. .. that's the thing about art I guess it's all about interpretation.

The attitude towards a naked female body from women describing themselves as feminists tells me her achievements may have been more progressive than ours.

[Tom4784]

It's the fact that it looks unfinished that bothers me the most, like they got a lump of metal, chiselled out a woman at the top and then called it a day.

Like you could have taken that and then chiselled out Mary writing and the naked woman could be flowing out of the pages and be seen as the artistic impression of freedom through her words, or something.

[Niamh.]

I don't. .. that's the thing about art I guess it's all about interpretation.

The attitude towards a naked female body from women describing themselves as feminists tells me her achievements may have been more progressive than ours.


Sorry, can you explain what you mean by this? Are you saying I'm not a feminist because I think this Statue is not an appropriate way to commemorate Mary Wollstonecraft? (I may have misunderstood your point here.....I hope I did :laugh: )

[user104658]

I don't. .. that's the thing about art I guess it's all about interpretation.

The attitude towards a naked female body from women describing themselves as feminists tells me her achievements may have been more progressive than ours.

Depicting a great historical intellect in the form of a fertility statue that suggests the standout feature of a woman is that she's "a birther and a nurser" isn't progressive, it's a misfire. Unless it's supposed to be ironic?

[user104658]

Sorry, can you explain what you mean by this? Are you saying I'm not a feminist because I think this Statue is not an appropriate way to commemorate Mary Wollstonecraft? (I may have misunderstood your point here.....I hope I did :laugh: )

Not Woke Enough as usual Niamh. 21st century feminism is about empowered sex work, titty statues and consensually choking on ****. Take THAT, patriarchy!

[Kizzy]

There she goes again, Ms. Patriarchy telling women that the only way to empower themselves is to cater to the male gaze :idc:

Not at all.. my point is we can't be truly progressive in the way she would have wanted if we are terrified of our bodies and refuse to expose it out of fear.
That for me is peak patriarchy, don't show your raw self that's what the suggestions that it detracts from her work show me.

[Niamh.]

Not Woke Enough as usual Niamh. 21st century feminism is about empowered sex work, titty statues and consensually choking on ****. Take THAT, patriarchy!

It's depressing

[Kizzy]

Depicting a great historical intellect in the form of a fertility statue that suggests the standout feature of a woman is that she's "a birther and a nurser" isn't progressive, it's a misfire. Unless it's supposed to be ironic?

Is that how you see a naked female as nothing but a walking womb? That's a shame.

[Niamh.]

Not at all.. my point is we can't be truly progressive in the way she would have wanted if we are terrified of our bodies and refuse to expose it out of fear.
That for me is peak patriarchy, don't show your raw self that's what the suggestions that it detracts from her work show me.

How on earth did you get "we're terrified of our bodies" from any of the posts on this thread though?

[Ammi]

....one of the things that the sculpture has said is...


“As far as I know, she’s more or less the shape we’d all like to be.”


....that really doesn’t sit well at all with me ...with so many young females having low body image...

[Ammi]

...this is Maggi Hambling’s sculpture of Oscar Wilde at Charing Cross...just for interest...


https://assets.londonist.com/uploads/2015/07/i875/oscar-wilde.jpg

[Niamh.]

And it would have been weird to have a statue commemorating Oscar Wild in the nude as well.........but that would never happen anyway

[user104658]

Not at all.. my point is we can't be truly progressive in the way she would have wanted if we are terrified of our bodies and refuse to expose it out of fear.

Literally nothing to do with people's issue with this statue, but the fact that you think it IS the issue is why you're so keen to be on that side of this argument, I suspect.

Most people have no problem with statues or art that depict nudity of females, males, or both at once. Heck, it would even be a different discussion if she had made or commissioned a statue herself. However IMO it only takes a brief skim of what she actually wrote about to cast doubt on this artists' decision being appropriate to the subject.

[user104658]

Is that how you see a naked female as nothing but a walking womb? That's a shame.

Obviously that is what I said, yes.

[Niamh.]

Literally nothing to do with people's issue with this statue, but the fact that you think it IS the issue is why you're so keen to be on that side of this argument, I suspect.

Most people have no problem with statues or art that depict nudity of females, males, or both at once. Heck, it would even be a different discussion if she had made or commissioned a statue herself. However IMO it only takes a brief skim of what she actually wrote about to cast doubt on this artists' decision being appropriate to the subject.

Exactly. The issue with this statue is it's an inappropriate and disrespectful way to honour this woman and it would never be done to a male "thinker"

I am absolutely comfortable with nude art/statues in general

[Ammi]

Writer Caitlin Moran claimed a better representation of a naked "everywoman" would be of "Wollstonecraft dying, at 38, in childbirth, as so many women did back then - ending her revolutionary work."

Writer Tracy King tweeted: "There is no reason to depict Mary naked unless you are trying to be edgy to provoke debate.
"Statues of named men get to be clothed because the focus is on their work and achievements.
"Meanwhile, women walking or jogging through parks experience high rates of sexual harassment because our bodies are considered public property."

Historian Simon Schama wrote that he "always wanted a fine monument to Wollstonecraft - this isn't it".

[user104658]

....one of the things that the sculpture has said is...


“As far as I know, she’s more or less the shape we’d all like to be.”


....that really doesn’t sit well at all with me ...with so many young females having low body image...

At the most basic level, it's just absolute nonsense to suggest that everyone has the same body ideal, or even close to it :think:.

[Oliver_W]

...this is Maggi Hambling’s sculpture of Oscar Wilde at Charing Cross...just for interest...


https://assets.londonist.com/uploads/2015/07/i875/oscar-wilde.jpg

That's awful, I can barely even tell what it's meant to be.

Modern Art is repulsive.

[Kizzy]

Literally nothing to do with people's issue with this statue, but the fact that you think it IS the issue is why you're so keen to be on that side of this argument, I suspect.

Most people have no problem with statues or art that depict nudity of females, males, or both at once. Heck, it would even be a different discussion if she had made or commissioned a statue herself. However IMO it only takes a brief skim of what she actually wrote about to cast doubt on this artists' decision being appropriate to the subject.
What was your 'nurser and birther' comment about then? if you're not fixated solely on the tits and fanny of this composition. The meaning is lost because you refuse to see past them.
That's how I see your comments, that's how I see the whole argument surrounding this piece.
I see a lot don't agree and that's fine. I'm not projecting anything into anyone. Not saying anyone isn't feminist enough or anything like that.
I just feel that as a radical feminist she would have appreciated the symbolism in this perhaps? It's only my opinion you understand.

[Kizzy]

Sorry, can you explain what you mean by this? Are you saying I'm not a feminist because I think this Statue is not an appropriate way to commemorate Mary Wollstonecraft? (I may have misunderstood your point here.....I hope I did :laugh: )

Maybe it was a bit blunt I meant basically my interpretation of her work would serve to free women from the worry that they had to temper anything to conform to an expected standard? Like the need to express feminism in a way that excludes a female form... the ultimate feminist idolatry.

I'm thinking this is coming from my pagan roots here, I'm passionate about the triple goddess and I see no harm, shame or embarrassment in the expression of femininity in feminism. That it can mean so many things and is for me a tool for empowerment not a symbol of subjugation.

[Kizzy]

Obviously that is what I said, yes.

You made reference to the genetalia. What else was I meant to take from your the ' male gaze' comment... that's a ridiculous phrase isn't it? all it is is is a romanticised way of saying if artwork representative of any person or subject has boobs don't blame us for ignoring that person/ subject and making that the sole focus. Nothing else is relevant.

'Male gazing' should be as outmoded as wolf whistling by now Imo.

[Kizzy]

Quite right Bots, and her life was about feminism, which (as we know) is mostly about boobies and vaginas and other associated lady paraphernalia.

...Dear me Oedipus, are we here to mansplain expressions of feminism? Oh goody!
Something to look forward to.

[Ammi]

...it’s a difficult one I think, I do completely see your thoughts and they do also make sense to me...I can’t quite get to that mindset with the statue, though...because visually, it’s focus is only a part of ‘every woman’...and that part that has been focused on is very much something that male/female has never been judged equally on in society...so to keep the focus there, as it were...feels far from empowerment and more ‘limiting’ of female...limiting also because the artist is claiming an ‘ideal or perfect form for female’....

...Maggi is an artist, I get that she wants people to give thought to her art...and you, Kizzy are someone who always gives great thought to things...but she’s also been given an opportunity to create something which is representative of all female/every woman...and not every woman will give that thought so ‘visual’ was always important as well in showing female achievements...and I don’t personally feel that this sculpture tributes ....

[Ammi]

...I completely believe in our inner goddesses also, Kizzy...:lovedup:..I think that’s it though and a great way for you to put it...with the statue...for me it doesn’t show any of those goddesses that we females are...it’s more of a ‘surface’ of how we’ve been judged and still can be...

...as you say, though...it’s art...it’s each of our interpretations...we just comparatively have so few female sculptures in comparison to male...so it would have been nice to have something that could have been more appealing to every woman as well...

[Kizzy]

Thank you Ammi I really appreciate that :)

I do see how on the surface it's problematic, for 2 very obvious reasons however if we never allow our selves to challenge people to see past those they never will ...
I don't see the form as perfect, however it is unmistakably female, in a very unapologetic way and I like that. I like the way it is emerging fully formed from an incomplete irregular but still recognisable mass. I'd like to say that's how she saw the future for women.
It may not be a physical representation of the woman herself but I see it as an abstract depiction of her hard work and resolution.

[Kizzy]

...I completely believe in our inner goddesses also, Kizzy...:lovedup:..I think that’s it though and a great way for you to put it...with the statue...for me it doesn’t show any of those goddesses that we females are...it’s more of a ‘surface’ of how we’ve been judged and still can be...

...as you say, though...it’s art...it’s each of our interpretations...we just comparatively have so few female sculptures in comparison to male...so it would have been nice to have something that could have been more appealing to every woman as well...
It's hard to say if it is a maiden, mother or crone lol its a bit enigmatic in that respect however it does give me a sense of strength, stoicism, determination and resolve. All of which I attribute to this fine woman it represents.
At least it's been a talking point and a jumping off point for discussions on feminism in a way that some bonnet and petticoats in bronze would never have done.

[Niamh.]

Well, I guess if I were a famous author or something like that and someone was going to make a statue of me, I'd be really angry if they made me nude and I would think it disrespectful and not representing my achievements

[Oliver_W]

...Dear me Oedipus, are we here to mansplain expressions of feminism? Oh goody!
Something to look forward to.

While you're obviously being sarcastic, it's hard to tell if you're genuinely taking the position you profess to be when using a ridiculous word like "mansplain" ...

[user104658]

What was your 'nurser and birther' comment about then?

The statue is made to be reminiscent of traditional fertility effigies and that conotation is impossible to miss. At the very least, it would take a lot of convincing for me to believe that the creator - a professional artist - missed that implication. It is deliberate. It may even have a message and a place in many artistic contexts. For this subject matter - if you've actually read anything she wrote on feminism - it is a complete gaff unless the intention was to be disrespectful of the person depicted and their writings.



'Male gazing' should be as outmoded as wolf whistling by now Imo.

Yes that's sort of the point.



...Dear me Oedipus, are we here to mansplain expressions of feminism?

Well if you females aren't going to do it, someone has to :fist:.

An Oedipus reference doesn't fit this scenario at all by the way, neither in the literature context or as the psychological complex. :think: bit ranty.

[Kizzy]

The statue is made to be reminiscent of traditional fertility effigies and that conotation is impossible to miss. At the very least, it would take a lot of convincing for me to believe that the creator - a professional artist - missed that implication. It is deliberate. It may even have a message and a place in many artistic contexts. For this subject matter - if you've actually read anything she wrote on feminism - it is a complete gaff unless the intention was to be disrespectful of the person depicted and their writings.



Yes that's sort of the point.





Well if you females aren't going to do it, someone has to :fist:.

An Oedipus reference doesn't fit this scenario at all by the way, neither in the literature context or as the psychological complex. :think: bit ranty.
Have you compared this piece with any fertility idols? Had you you'd see they are nothing alike... nothing.
The Oedipus reference is apt if, as you have done here you see a naked female form and instantly think 'mama'! It says more about you and your thought processes than the artist.
Hmm ...ranty? As in your suggesting my reaction is that if a hysterical female?.. not helping yourself here much TS.

[Kizzy]

While you're obviously being sarcastic, it's hard to tell if you're genuinely taking the position you profess to be when using a ridiculous word like "mansplain" ...

It's a private joke... but if the cap fits lol

[user104658]

Have you compared this piece with any fertility idols? Had you you'd see they are nothing alike... nothing.
The Oedipus reference is apt if, as you have done here you see a naked female form and instantly think 'mama'! It says more about you and your thought processes than the artist.
Hmm ...ranty? As in your suggesting my reaction is that if a hysterical female?.. not helping yourself here much TS.

The choice to display a prominent historical female thinker who wrote extensively on modesty, and appreciating the female mind over the female form, as a naked statue that accentuates the genitals and breasts, has clear connotations with "woman as the female form", Earth Mother, a vehicle for reproduction. As I said before - even if it can be interpreted differently - you're not going to convince me that a professional artist didn't anticipate that interpretation and therefore it is a conscious choice. It would be EXACTLY the same if an artist chose to depict a philosopher who talked of the nature of men as a bare-chested bodybuilder with his knob out. It has implications, they are open to interpretation, but are nonetheless deliberate on the part of the artist because they know what they're doing. If the subject is the artist thrmself, or the subject is a knowing participant, that's one thing but in this instance it's botched self-indulgence from the artist.

Your oedipus comments are massively off piste but they're just your attempt at creepy ad-hominem so we'll leave that where it is.

[Kizzy]

The choice to display a prominent historical female thinker who wrote extensively on modesty, and appreciating the female mind over the female form, as a naked statue that accentuates the genitals and breasts, has clear connotations with "woman as the female form", Earth Mother, a vehicle for reproduction. As I said before - even if it can be interpreted differently - you're not going to convince me that a professional artist didn't anticipate that interpretation and therefore it is a conscious choice. It would be EXACTLY the same if an artist chose to depict a philosopher who talked of the nature of men as a bare-chested bodybuilder with his knob out. It has implications, they are open to interpretation, but are nonetheless deliberate on the part of the artist because they know what they're doing. If the subject is the artist thrmself, or the subject is a knowing participant, that's one thing but in this instance it's botched self-indulgence from the artist.

Your oedipus comments are massively off piste but they're just your attempt at creepy ad-hominem so we'll leave that where it is.

Touchy.... you poked a stick at my thought processes I was just returning the favour.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/theconversation.com/amp/mary-wollstonecraft-statue-a-provocative-tribute-for-a-radical-woman-149888

As here her radical writing is expressed in much more dynamic terms than yours I'm inclined to agree with them, as well as reject your simplistic 'earth mother' interpretation.

[Niamh.]

https://www.crowdfunder.co.uk/statue-for-mary-wollstonecraft?fbclid=IwAR0lFyZ28Gh0A0xy33Lowxm3QI ka7CaVwu9_OpmICorhbosHX8ic9KVyrM4

[arista]

https://www.crowdfunder.co.uk/statue-for-mary-wollstonecraft?fbclid=IwAR0lFyZ28Gh0A0xy33Lowxm3QI ka7CaVwu9_OpmICorhbosHX8ic9KVyrM4


Will they reach the High amount?

[Niamh.]

Will they reach the High amount?

Only time will tell Arista