Prime Minister Johnson 'called Scottish devolution disaster'

[arista]

[Boris Johnson has come under fire for
reportedly telling a virtual meeting of Conservative MPs
that devolution had been a "disaster" in Scotland.
Mr Johnson also reportedly described it as
predecessor Tony Blair's "biggest mistake".

The SNP and Labour have both criticised Mr Johnson.

But government sources suggested the
prime minister had been making
"more of a reference" to the SNP's running
of Scotland than devolution in general.
Mr Johnson was in a Zoom meeting with
Tory MPs representing dozens of seats in
northern England on Monday when he
is said to have made the remarks.

The Sun newspaper reported the PM had told
the MPs "devolution has been a disaster north of the border".]


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54965585

[bots]

it depends on your viewpoint really. It has encouraged talk of independence rather than minimising it, so that is a disaster for the union

[joeysteele]

Well, he's trying to backtrack on what he said as usual.

It was inevitable that devolution was going to happen.
I think had it not, particularly moreso on what has happened since 2010.
Independence would be even more heavily supported now without devolution.

As a PM, Johnson just always comes out with utter nonsense when he's talking to his own supportive audiences.

Just more evidence of his not being fit to be a Prime Minister.

The line now is he's meaning the way the SNP and Nicola Sturgeon has handled power from devolution and getting into power.

To take a swipe at Nicola Sturgeon will do her no harm, nor the SNP.
He'll likely help the independence vote go higher.

Nicola Sturgeon is a world away from Johnson in that she's the one more fit to be a UK wide PM in my view.
Not him and his shockingly bad ill thought out silly headline grabbing utterances.

[James]

It's not exactly been a disaster but the way it was setup caused a division. Scotland and Wales got parliaments but nothing equivalent was put in place for England, so there is an imbalance there.

Also the Scottish parliament was given enough power that the Scottish government could look competent, but not enough power that the Scottish government could ever mess things up or do anything very controversial. No Scottish government has ever become unpopular because of that.

All that has just helped the SNP.

[Kizzy]

I'm thinking it's from a purely financial perspective, he can't now legally underfund Scotland due to the agreement. Think there's a word for it, is it the Barnet formula or something?

[user104658]

Yes the more robust and better organised NHS that hasn't been stripped into privatised oblivion like English services, and the transition to more empathic and fairer social support structures has been absolutely awful.

[user104658]

Scotland and Wales got parliaments but nothing equivalent was put in place for England, so there is an imbalance there.


I do agree with that to be fair, I think devolution of English regions isn't just reasonable, it's fast becoming essential for anywhere north of Cambridge.

[arista]

I do agree with that to be fair, I think devolution of English regions isn't just reasonable, it's fast becoming essential for anywhere north of Cambridge.


The Prime ministers comment
was taken out of context.

He means you no harm, TS.

[user104658]

The Prime ministers comment
was taken out of context.

He means you no harm, TS.

:shrug: From a Tory perspective it is a disaster because one of their primary goals is the ongoing covert privatisation of the NHS, and they haven't been able to do it in Scotland :joker:.

[arista]

I wish Scottish Folk on the Radio and TV
would stop saying they did not vote for Brexit.

It Does not work like that
the Whole of the UK voted for it.


Suck It Up

[Niamh.]

I wish Scottish Folk on the Radio and TV
would stop saying they did not vote for Brexit.

It Does not work like that
the Whole of the UK voted for it.


Suck It Up

No the UK is made up of 4 nations, 2 of them voted against and 2 of them voted for Brexit so the UK did not vote as a whole for Brexit

[arista]

No the UK is made up of 4 nations, 2 of them voted against and 2 of them voted for Brexit so the UK did not vote as a whole for Brexit


Sure but under our Voting rules
one side wins.


A few in Scotland voted Brexit.

[UserSince2005]

unchain the unicorn. preferable on a motorway with heavy traffic.

[joeysteele]

I wish Scottish Folk on the Radio and TV
would stop saying they did not vote for Brexit.

It Does not work like that
the Whole of the UK voted for it.


Suck It Up


That's easy to say with the vote very narrowly won.

However it cannot and shouldn't be denied that of the 4 Nations which are supposedly called equal Nations in the UK.
That N Ireland voted strongly to remain.
Scotland by a massive 62% to38%

However only the much greater populated England really carried the leave vote.
Virtually wiping out however the other 3 Nations of the UK voted.

Had all 4 Nations had around the same population, the vote would have been to remain on the voting figures.

That's why the division exists and will continue to.
It's also why I can see in perhaps 10 (+) years, the mood of the Country with all the newer voters, demanding a rethink on the 2016 decision.

This referendum highlighted even more the dismissal and dominance of only England over the other 3 Nations of the UK.

Yes, the result was to leave but it was not a UK result.
Wales surprisingly voted narrowly to leave, plus England voted to leave.
With England,only with it's much greater population, dictating the result.

That is why division will likely never be healed on this.
It will be likely always be an open sore that in time may need a further operation again.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Anyone who listened to Nicola today speaking with passion, care and concern about covid in scotland can see that she is the politician that Boris can never be and i bet it pisses him right off.

[Nicky91]

Anyone who listened to Nicola today speaking with passion, care and concern about covid in scotland can see that she is the politician that Boris can never be and i bet it pisses him right off.

Nicola is a amateur compared to the legend that is Boris

[arista]

"the vote very narrowly won."


A Million.
is not narrow, Joey

[joeysteele]

"the vote very narrowly won."


A Million.
is not narrow, Joey

51.9% to 48.1% out of all those millions is a narrow win arista.
In my book it certainly is, and while I accept the vote was to leave.

The detail behind that voting shows it is a narrow one.

The good convincing win was decades earlier when the Nation voted around 66% to 34% to be in the then EEC.
With ALL 4 Nations of the UK voting the same way too.

[joeysteele]

Nicola is a amateur compared to the legend that is Boris

Legend in a disaster sense in my view.
Sorry.

For me Nicola Sturgeon is the best leader and politician in the UK at present.
What a leader she'd have made as PM of the UK.

If anyone looks amateurish all through this pandemic it certainly isn't Nicola.
It's the unfortunately present incumbent of 10 Downing Street.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Legend in a disaster sense in my view.
Sorry.

For me Nicola Sturgeon is the best leader and politician in the UK at present.
What a leader she'd have made as PM of the UK.

If anyone looks amateurish all through this pandemic it certainly isn't Nicola.
It's the unfortunately present incumbent of 10 Downing Street.

:clap2:

[bots]

this is the same Nicola that suffered accute memory loss when told about the former SNP leaders antics

[Crimson Dynamo]

this is the same Nicola that suffered accute memory loss when told about the former SNP leaders antics

Salmon was cleared of all charges

[bots]

Salmon was cleared of all charges

she still suffered acute memory loss and lied about being informed about it

[Crimson Dynamo]

she still suffered acute memory loss and lied about being informed about it

she has a lot on her mind what with covid

[James]

Legend in a disaster sense in my view.
Sorry.

For me Nicola Sturgeon is the best leader and politician in the UK at present.
What a leader she'd have made as PM of the UK.

If anyone looks amateurish all through this pandemic it certainly isn't Nicola.
It's the unfortunately present incumbent of 10 Downing Street.

She could never PM of a country she wants to break up.

Wolf in sheep's clothing, in my opinion.

[joeysteele]

She could never PM of a country she wants to break up.

Wolf in sheep's clothing, in my opinion.

Obviously.
Her calibre of leadership is what I admire.

Had it been possible for her to be PM of the UK, then I think she'd have the conviction, passion and compassion to unite far more than the present PM ever could or in fact will.

She can contrast firmness with fairness and compassion, they're all qualities I admire in any politician.

In fact I actually thought too that Ruth Davidson was good in a leadership role too.

With so few ' quality ' leaders in all 4 Nations of the UK, for Scotland to have had 2 of the better candidates is quite something in politics.

However, no, you're right she couldn't be PM of the whole UK, which in my view then leaves UK politics the sadder for that fact.

[Oliver_W]

Sturgeon is clearly leaps and bounds ahead of BoJo, and I'll bet it boils his piss.

But further devolution would be crap, we've been essentially one country for ages now, no need to break it up.

[Cherie]

Sturgeon is clearly leaps and bounds ahead of BoJo, and I'll bet it boils his piss.

But further devolution would be crap, we've been essentially one country for ages now, no need to break it up.

Is she? the SNP can make decisions with no accountability.

she locked down in September as this was hailed as fantastic etc etc and despite that 2 million Scots are now under Tier 4 lockdown until 11th December so not sure what it is that is fantastic about her

[user104658]

Sturgeon is clearly leaps and bounds ahead of BoJo, and I'll bet it boils his piss.

But further devolution would be crap, we've been essentially one country for ages now, no need to break it up.

There is a clear and present need, and as I said I'd go further and devolve the English regions into pseudo-"states" with control of their own budgets.

Westminster policy is geared towards the functioning of the City of London and has been since the 80's, it clearly and demonstrably does not work for anywhere other than the South of England, and it can't really ever work, for obvious reasons. Scotland, and several large regions of England, have very different needs to London and the South. I get (to an extent) not supporting independence, but I can see no valid reason to oppose full devolution of regional budgets (up to and including health services, education, benefits & social support etc.)

Scotland is finally getting there with Social Security Scotland being in transition from the England-based DWP, still a few years until that's fully active, and I think it will make an absolutely massive difference. But again, I think there are several English regions that would be better served by similar devolved services in place of the massive, bloated country-wide systems.

[Oliver_W]

Is she? the SNP can make decisions with no accountability.
I didn't necessarily say she's good, just that she's much better than BoJo ;)

[user104658]

Is she? the SNP can make decisions with no accountability.

she locked down in September as this was hailed as fantastic etc etc and despite that 2 million Scots are now under Tier 4 lockdown until 11th December so not sure what it is that is fantastic about her

To be fair, that's not actually because it didn't work, it was working and cases were coming down, but they went ahead with harsher restrictions anyway which I personally think is complete overkill and I have my doubts about the overall effect. I think it will damage compliance, which has been good so far. The aim I think is to go in hard now to limit the effect of allowing Christmas gatherings. I do have my questions about this, I think it's a misfire to be honest, but it's not because earlier actions weren't effective or are in need of criticism.

[Oliver_W]

But again, I think there are several English regions that would be better served by similar devolved services in place of the massive, bloated country-wide systems.
I agree, parts of England such as Scot"land" and Devon are too different from London for their policies to apply ;)

[user104658]

I agree, parts of England such as Scot"land" and Devon are too different from London for their policies to apply ;)

Scotland has never been a part of England :idc:

[Oliver_W]

Scotland has never been a part of England :idc:

Sorry Braveheart :laugh:

[user104658]

Sorry Braveheart :laugh:

I mean it's slightly irritating but more than that it's just historically/geographically not correct - I suppose a unionist might argue that Scotland isn't a country, but that doesn't make Scotland a part of England... basically, if Scotland isn't a country but a region, then England also isn't a distinct country but a region (and Wales and NI too). UK would be the country. :shrug: you can't have it both ways! I'd almost be happy to say there's no such thing as Scotland if it means there's also no such thing as England :laugh:. We'll take the hit.

[Oliver_W]

I'd almost be happy to say there's no such thing as Scotland if it means there's also no such thing as England :laugh:. We'll take the hit.

DEAL!

but the whole of the UK is also called England ;)

[user104658]

DEAL!

but the whole of the UK is also called England ;)

No because then we'd have to use the English flag as our only flag instead of the Union Flag, and everyone would think we're all white supremacists because of the unfortunate links between the St George's Cross and racist hooliganism :worry:

[Oliver_W]

No because then we'd have to use the English flag as our only flag instead of the Union Flag, and everyone would think we're all white supremacists because of the unfortunate links between the St George's Cross and racist hooliganism :worry:

Fine, keep your dragon flag and shamrocks :hmph: