Alison Hammond is pre-Diabetic

[Denver]

She announced on this Morning that she is pre diabetic and will develop type 2 diabetes if she doesn't change her eating style, she wants people to help her out with it.

I'm glad she is putting it In the spotlight because people don't really talk about being Pre-Diabetic and it will hopefully help alot of people who have a diet based on a lot of sugar and other unhealthy stuff.

[The Slim Reaper]

Fair play for talking about it, but it can't really have come as a shock to her.

[Denver]

Fair play for talking about it, but it can't really have come as a shock to her.

I guess for alot of people you don't think about Diabetes when stuff your face with sweet treats until you get a health scare, I know a lot of people think its because if her weight but anyway can develop it no matter their weight

[Vanessa]

Probably too many sweets?
She can turn this around by eating healthier.

[Oliver_W]

Fair play for talking about it, but it can't really have come as a shock to her.

:joker:

Saucer of milk?

[user104658]

'tis not the sweeties with type 2 (although of course tonnes of sugar isn't good) - it's the empty carbs that will **** with your blood sugar. More protein, more fat, less stuffing your belly with bulk bread/pasta/potatoes and you can still enjoy 2 sugars in your coffee.

I like to harp on about this occasionally :joker:.

I'm not a low-carb advocate but make sure your carbs are good ones - fruit, green veg, etc.

Honestly the best diet advice I can give and you don't need a guide or a book for it. "Cut the bulky crappy starchy carbs, eat more fresh veg instead". It's that simple.

Also helps with bloat and achy joints (the latter was the main reason I looked into it, my joints are genetically - to be blunt - pish).

[Cherie]

Fair play for talking about it, but it can't really have come as a shock to her.

Correct

[The Slim Reaper]

:joker:

Saucer of milk?

I honestly wasn't coming from a mock her weight pov. It's 2020, everyone has the internet so there aren't really any excuses for not being aware of how her weight/size would affect the rest of her life, either directly, or through health associated issues.

[Ammi]

...the ‘pre’ is exactly that...preventable...and hopefully won’t develop if she follows a healthy eating diet and physical exercise routine that I presume she’s been given and will be monitored...I wish her well in a hopefully preventable lifestyle...:love:..

[Zizu]

Fair play for talking about it, but it can't really have come as a shock to her.



Or anyone else either ...


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[Zizu]

'tis not the sweeties with type 2 (although of course tonnes of sugar isn't good) - it's the empty carbs that will **** with your blood sugar. More protein, more fat, less stuffing your belly with bulk bread/pasta/potatoes and you can still enjoy 2 sugars in your coffee.

I like to harp on about this occasionally :joker:.

I'm not a low-carb advocate but make sure your carbs are good ones - fruit, green veg, etc.

Honestly the best diet advice I can give and you don't need a guide or a book for it. "Cut the bulky crappy starchy carbs, eat more fresh veg instead". It's that simple.

Also helps with bloat and achy joints (the latter was the main reason I looked into it, my joints are genetically - to be blunt - pish).



There’s the problem .. excluding all wheat based products and potatoes ??

I love chip butties !!


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[GoldHeart]

Probably too many sweets?
She can turn this around by eating healthier.

She does love her food, I hope she tries to change her diet she's such a lovely fun person . And her health is important.

[Kizzy]

There’s the problem .. excluding all wheat based products and potatoes ??

I love chip butties !!


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Have your chip butty... it's the sugar.

I have been pre diabetic before cut sugar and reversed it.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.diabetes.org.uk/guide-to-diabetes/enjoy-food/eating-with-diabetes/food-groups/sugar-and-diabetes%3famp

[GoldHeart]

Have your chip butty... it's the sugar.

I have been pre diabetic before cut sugar and reversed it.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.diabetes.org.uk/guide-to-diabetes/enjoy-food/eating-with-diabetes/food-groups/sugar-and-diabetes%3famp

Sugar , salt and alcohol definitely play a big part in it , so cutting down on those will help .

[Kizzy]

Sugar , salt and alcohol definitely play a big part in it , so cutting down on those will help .

Not sure about salt but deffo alcohol again there is a lot of sugar in that.

[AnnieK]

My Dad is in his 70s and at a health check last year they told him he was pre-diabetic. They sent him on a 10 week course where they told them pretty much what TS said above.....he switched up his diet, upped his daily exercise to help manage his weight and by the end of the course his blood was back in the normal level range.....and he had lost over a stone in weight. If he can do it at his age, Alison hopefully will.

[smudgie]

Time to cut the carbs.
Give those pancreas a break.

[armand.kay]

poor chic i hope she gets it together with her diet

[Zizu]

Time to cut the carbs.

Give those pancreas a break.



My pancreas hopefully gets a break everyday given I do intermittent fasting every day .. so it gets at least a 16 hour rest every 24 hours


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[user104658]

Have your chip butty... it's the sugar.

I have been pre diabetic before cut sugar and reversed it.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.diabetes.org.uk/guide-to-diabetes/enjoy-food/eating-with-diabetes/food-groups/sugar-and-diabetes%3famp

Not Kizzy advising pre-diabetic people to eat chip butties. Does the reign of terror know no end?

In all seriousness; the best option would be to cut out as much of both as possible, obviously you can't cut out bulky carbs and sit stuffing your face with chocolate and haribo, but you also can't expect to cut just sugar and continue eating as much bread and pasta as you like. The problem is how the body processes carbohydrates and sugar is just a high-energy carbohydrate. To get right into it, the reason I think you need to be "stricter" on basic carbs than on sugar is because it's easy to remember that sugar should just be a treat; so sugar in your morning coffee is fine, but not sugar in 4+ coffees throughout the day. A sugary snack with a movie is fine, but not every day of the week.

Bulk carbs on the other hand are a normalised part of our diet and people will happily have porridge for breakfast, a sandwich for lunch and pasta for dinner and think nothing of it or even that they've made healthy choices. But as soon as you have that carby breakfast your body is going to chase carbs all day - and that means blood sugar fluctuations which is exactly what you don't want.

But I also don't think "strict" faddy diets work because they aren't sustainable... so I wouldn't advocate for trying to "completely cut carbs" or nonsense like that. I think a good example would be... bacon and eggs (no carbs) is a better breakfast than a bacon sandwich (carbs) - BUT don't worry too much about throwing in the occasional sausage that has wheat in it.

Or... let's say you're getting an Indian as a treat... probably skip the garlic nan - but don't worry too much about the batter on the pakora. etc.

[Kizzy]

Not Kizzy advising pre-diabetic people to eat chip butties. Does the reign of terror know no end?

In all seriousness; the best option would be to cut out as much of both as possible, obviously you can't cut out bulky carbs and sit stuffing your face with chocolate and haribo, but you also can't expect to cut just sugar and continue eating as much bread and pasta as you like. The problem is how the body processes carbohydrates and sugar is just a high-energy carbohydrate. To get right into it, the reason I think you need to be "stricter" on basic carbs than on sugar is because it's easy to remember that sugar should just be a treat; so sugar in your morning coffee is fine, but not sugar in 4+ coffees throughout the day. A sugary snack with a movie is fine, but not every day of the week.

Bulk carbs on the other hand are a normalised part of our diet and people will happily have porridge for breakfast, a sandwich for lunch and pasta for dinner and think nothing of it or even that they've made healthy choices. But as soon as you have that carby breakfast your body is going to chase carbs all day - and that means blood sugar fluctuations which is exactly what you don't want.

But I also don't think "strict" faddy diets work because they aren't sustainable... so I wouldn't advocate for trying to "completely cut carbs" or nonsense like that. I think a good example would be... bacon and eggs (no carbs) is a better breakfast than a bacon sandwich (carbs) - BUT don't worry too much about throwing in the occasional sausage that has wheat in it.

Or... let's say you're getting an Indian as a treat... probably skip the garlic nan - but don't worry too much about the batter on the pakora. etc.

Did you see the link?... and my personal experience.

If all you are going to do is mock then take your own advice and don't quote me.

[Cherie]

Not Kizzy advising pre-diabetic people to eat chip butties. Does the reign of terror know no end?

In all seriousness; the best option would be to cut out as much of both as possible, obviously you can't cut out bulky carbs and sit stuffing your face with chocolate and haribo, but you also can't expect to cut just sugar and continue eating as much bread and pasta as you like. The problem is how the body processes carbohydrates and sugar is just a high-energy carbohydrate. To get right into it, the reason I think you need to be "stricter" on basic carbs than on sugar is because it's easy to remember that sugar should just be a treat; so sugar in your morning coffee is fine, but not sugar in 4+ coffees throughout the day. A sugary snack with a movie is fine, but not every day of the week.

Bulk carbs on the other hand are a normalised part of our diet and people will happily have porridge for breakfast, a sandwich for lunch and pasta for dinner and think nothing of it or even that they've made healthy choices. But as soon as you have that carby breakfast your body is going to chase carbs all day - and that means blood sugar fluctuations which is exactly what you don't want.

But I also don't think "strict" faddy diets work because they aren't sustainable... so I wouldn't advocate for trying to "completely cut carbs" or nonsense like that. I think a good example would be... bacon and eggs (no carbs) is a better breakfast than a bacon sandwich (carbs) - BUT don't worry too much about throwing in the occasional sausage that has wheat in it.

Or... let's say you're getting an Indian as a treat... probably skip the garlic nan - but don't worry too much about the batter on the pakora. etc.


sorry cant have bacon its full of salt and carciogenics :fist:

my motto is you can literally eat anything if you do it in moderation, and take a reasonable about of exercise

[user104658]

my motto is you can literally eat anything if you do it in moderation, and take a reasonable about of exercise

True but I think that's where I find the caveat;

1) A lot of people struggle to eat bulky carbs in moderation and make portion sizes far too big... again that's why I think it's the "thing to watch" over sugar, fat, salt etc. simply because most people hit a natural limit on sugary/fatty/salty stuff but carbs are very easy to eat 2x, 5x, 10x too much of and still be peckish for more :joker:.

2) ... if you're diabetic the "you can eat anything in moderation" rule that applies for most people goes out the window, it just doesn't really apply and you'll probably end up in a bloodsugar-related coma or dead. :umm2:

[user104658]

Did you see the link?... and my personal experience.

If all you are going to do is mock then take your own advice and don't quote me.

I did read the link but you'll note it says;

"Instead of chocolate bars, sweets, cakes and biscuits, choose healthier snacks such as unsweetened yogurts, unsalted nuts, seeds, fruits and vegetables. For example, try natural yogurt mixed in with chopped fruit or a small handful of nuts."

...so your own link quite clearly suggests replacing sugar and empty white carbs with fats, proteins and healthy fruit & veg carbs which is what I said above :think:.

I can't find the bit where it says "replace sugary snacks with chip butties" but to be fair I did only skim the article.

[Kizzy]

I did read the link but you'll note it says;

"Instead of chocolate bars, sweets, cakes and biscuits, choose healthier snacks such as unsweetened yogurts, unsalted nuts, seeds, fruits and vegetables. For example, try natural yogurt mixed in with chopped fruit or a small handful of nuts."

...so your own link quite clearly suggests replacing sugar and empty white carbs with fats, proteins and healthy fruit & veg carbs which is what I said above :think:.

I can't find the bit where it says "replace sugary snacks with chip butties" but to be fair I did only skim the article.

Yes snacks.. a chip butty isn't a snack, it's a lunch. Who said the bread had to be white?

No strangely the article didn't mention chip butties because it not weirdly obsessive about every carb, just cutting out the very obvious sugars in your diet would be enough to reverse pre diabetes.

'Tis not the sweeties' that's what you said, the article clearly states it very much is sweeties. My point is if you cut out the 2 sugars in your coffees and other sugary snacks the odd sarnie is irrelevant.
Nobody suggested living on chip butties :/

[Zizu]

sorry cant have bacon its full of salt and carciogenics :fist:



my motto is you can literally eat anything if you do it in moderation, and take a reasonable about of exercise



That’s the old fashioned theory ...
my mum was 86... her dad was 88 ...


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[Zizu]

Yes snacks.. a chip butty isn't a snack, it's a lunch. Who said the bread had to be white?



No strangely the article didn't mention chip butties because it not weirdly obsessive about every carb, just cutting out the very obvious sugars in your diet would be enough to reverse pre diabetes.



'Tis not the sweeties' that's what you said, the article clearly states it very much is sweeties. My point is if you cut out the 2 sugars in your coffees and other sugary snacks the odd sarnie is irrelevant.

Nobody suggested living on chip butties :/



Oddly enough I’ve dropped from 6 coffees (one sugar each ) down to just ONE coffee ( or tea ) per day !!


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[user104658]

Yes snacks.. a chip butty isn't a snack, it's a lunch. Who said the bread had to be white?

No strangely the article didn't mention chip butties because it not weirdly obsessive about every carb, just cutting out the very obvious sugars in your diet would be enough to reverse pre diabetes.

'Tis not the sweeties' that's what you said, the article clearly states it very much is sweeties. My point is if you cut out the 2 sugars in your coffees and other sugary snacks the odd sarnie is irrelevant.
Nobody suggested living on chip butties :/

For most people, it's not the sweeties because people don't eat a plate of sweets for their dinner. They do sit and eat a plate of empty savoury carbs for their dinner.

I'm not sure what's complicated about this.

[user104658]

Oddly enough I’ve dropped from 6 coffees (one sugar each ) down to just ONE coffee ( or tea ) per day !!


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I dropped from about 8 coffees a day ( :umm2: ) when I worked 12 hour retail management shifts to just two, a morning double espresso and an evening latte, now that I work office hours (currently from home). I have to say, I do feel quite a bit less jittery for it.

tbf like I said though, you don't have to have sugar in every cup, I used to have two sugars in my first morning coffee and then none in the rest. Have to have milk though. A co-worker tried to get me into "just coffee" but I can't do it. Not manly enough.

[Kizzy]

For most people, it's not the sweeties because people don't eat a plate of sweets for their dinner. They do sit and eat a plate of empty savoury carbs for their dinner.

I'm not sure what's complicated about this.
My God you are going to labour this point like you do every time someone dares to counter your view... based on nothing but your musings as per.
What is NOT complicated about this is the amount of sugar in grams per 100g, therefore you could have a sandwich for dinner and there would at most be the equivalent of perhaps 1 biscuit.
Not a plate of biscuits... yes starchy carbs have sugar in and, if you were a diabetic along with sugar intake you may have to monitor that more closely. However, if only in the pre diabetic state reducing actual sugar would be enough to avoid spikes and maintain normal blood sugar levels.

[Cherie]

That’s the old fashioned theory ...
my mum was 86... her dad was 88 ...


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It might be old fashioned but historically type 2 diabetes was not prevalent in the population and they ate carbs! ...over eating plays it’s part, the UK is one of the fattest nations in Europe and has the prevalence of diabetes to match it, Covid deaths and the correlation with the number of people with diabetes cannot be ignored

[user104658]

My God you are going to labour this point like you do every time someone dares to counter your view... based on nothing but your musings as per.

I'm going to continually correct your frequent misinterpretation and seeming inability to understand things I say and your insistance on "reframing them" as your own flawed interpretation, yes.

[user104658]

It might be old fashioned but historically type 2 diabetes was not prevalent in the population and they ate carbs! ...over eating plays it’s part, the UK is one of the fattest nations in Europe and has the prevalence of diabetes to match it, Covid deaths and the correlation with the number of people with diabetes cannot be ignored

It's down to cost and availability really; historically most people didn't over-eat anything because it wasn't there to over-eat. Things like high sugar content and (especially) HFCS in the US are massive problems when it comes to obesity, but carb-bulking is also a huge part of the problem no matter how much certain Kizzies want to insist that you can eat as many sandwiches as you want so long as you lay off the Haribo. It's widely accepted that huge servings of carb-based snacks are a major component of the obesity crisis, over and above just high sugar/high fat, because basically overloading on those empty carbs is what results in repeated hunger, much moreso than low-volume high-energy foods. Willpower is obviously part of the equation but instinct is a MASSIVE counter to willpower, and it's much harder for people to resist over-eating and snacking if their body is screaming at them that they need more carbs.

[Kizzy]

I'm going to continually correct your frequent misinterpretation and seeming inability to understand things I say and your insistance on "reframing them" as your own flawed interpretation, yes.

You are going to continue to labour your 'advice' that is contrary to that of the experts as seen in the link I posted
That's fine. I'll leave it there.

[user104658]

You are going to continue to labour your 'advice' that is contrary to that of the experts as seen in the link I posted

Except that it isn't. It may be additional, but it certainly isn't contradictory.

[Kizzy]

It's down to cost and availability really; historically most people didn't over-eat anything because it wasn't there to over-eat. Things like high sugar content and (especially) HFCS in the US are massive problems when it comes to obesity, but carb-bulking is also a huge part of the problem no matter how much certain Kizzies want to insist that you can eat as many sandwiches as you want so long as you lay off the Haribo. It's widely accepted that huge servings of carb-based snacks are a major component of the obesity crisis, over and above just high sugar/high fat, because basically overloading on those empty carbs is what results in repeated hunger, much moreso than low-volume high-energy foods. Willpower is obviously part of the equation but instinct is a MASSIVE counter to willpower, and it's much harder for people to resist over-eating and snacking if their body is screaming at them that they need more carbs.

Dear me...where is your evidence for your claims or have we to change your name to toy professor?...

I always back up my points with relevant material, where's yours??

And yes... if you lay off the haribo you can have a sandwich, nobody said anything about a full loaf! :/

[Kizzy]

Except that it isn't. It may be additional, but it certainly isn't contradictory.

You suggested sweeties are not the major factor here...imo and as stated in the information I posted they are.

[user104658]

Dear me...where is your evidence for your claims or have we to change your name to toy professor?...

I always back up my points with relevant material, where's yours??


Yet more ad hominem :idc:. Which prompts me to not really be all that arsed with digging deep for sources so I just clicked the first one on google.

https://www.diabetes.org.uk/guide-to-diabetes/enjoy-food/carbohydrates-and-diabetes

"All the carbohydrates you eat and drink are broken down into glucose. The type, and amount, you consume can make a difference to your blood glucose levels and diabetes management"

"For example, one person trying to lose weight and manage their blood glucose levels on a low-carb diet would restrict their carb intake, while another person who is happy with their weight may decide to eat more healthy carbs. The total amount of carbohydrate eaten will have the biggest effect on your glucose levels after eating"

"Learn about which foods contain carbohydrates, how to estimate carbohydrate portions and how to monitor their effect on blood glucose levels."

"Generally, lower GI foods can be useful for managing blood glucose levels. More importantly for overall health, choosing foods that are high in fibre and wholegrains instead of refined carbs, such as white bread"

"Try seeds, nuts and pulses as lower carb sources of fibre "

"For people with Type 2 diabetes who may be overweight or obese, reducing the calories you eat helps to lose weight. This can be done through different means including following a low carb diet or simply reducing the current amount of carbs you eat. People have successfully followed low carb diets to lose weight and manage their diabetes including lowering their HbA1c, cholesterol and blood pressure levels as well as reducing the amount of diabetes medications they take."


Literally the top result on Google for "carbs and diabetes".

[Kizzy]

Yet more ad hominem :idc:. Which prompts me to not really be all that arsed with digging deep for sources so I just clicked the first one on google.

https://www.diabetes.org.uk/guide-to-diabetes/enjoy-food/carbohydrates-and-diabetes

"All the carbohydrates you eat and drink are broken down into glucose. The type, and amount, you consume can make a difference to your blood glucose levels and diabetes management"

"For example, one person trying to lose weight and manage their blood glucose levels on a low-carb diet would restrict their carb intake, while another person who is happy with their weight may decide to eat more healthy carbs. The total amount of carbohydrate eaten will have the biggest effect on your glucose levels after eating"

"Learn about which foods contain carbohydrates, how to estimate carbohydrate portions and how to monitor their effect on blood glucose levels."

"Generally, lower GI foods can be useful for managing blood glucose levels. More importantly for overall health, choosing foods that are high in fibre and wholegrains instead of refined carbs, such as white bread"

"Try seeds, nuts and pulses as lower carb sources of fibre "

"For people with Type 2 diabetes who may be overweight or obese, reducing the calories you eat helps to lose weight. This can be done through different means including following a low carb diet or simply reducing the current amount of carbs you eat. People have successfully followed low carb diets to lose weight and manage their diabetes including lowering their HbA1c, cholesterol and blood pressure levels as well as reducing the amount of diabetes medications they take."


Literally the top result on Google for "carbs and diabetes".
You are fixating on carbs again... The issue we disagreed on was sugar, or 'sweeties'.
My point was and still is to reverse pre diabetes cutting sugar and sweets would be the initial step.

I can't believe you feel this is such a controversial opinion...
It doesn't mean I don't think that controlling carbs is important in the management of type 2 diabetes or obesity, but that's a different conversation.

[user104658]

You are fixating on carbs again... The issue we disagreed on was sugar, or 'sweeties'.

My point was and still is to reverse pre diabetes cutting sugar and sweets would be the initial step.



I can't believe you feel this is such a controversial opinion...

It doesn't mean I don't think that controlling carbs is important in the management of type 2 diabetes or obesity, but that's a different conversation.I think the latter is the bigger, harder and more important step because changing what you put in your tea and avoiding sugary snacks and drinks is a relatively "simple" change.

The "normal" western diet as standard is so packed full of empty bulky carbs in the form of bread, pasta, potatoes, white rice etc. that it's a harder message to get across and also a harder change to make, requiring adjustments to every single meal rather than just simple abstinence.

In other words, you'll have a much tougher time convincing someone that their pasta salad isn't good for them than you will with a Mars Bar.

Just as you haven't said "go eat a whole loaf of bread", I've obviously never said that unlimited sugar would be a good idea, on calorie count alone it would be terrible.

My point has been that - in general - most people at risk of diabetes do NOT gorge themselves silly on huge amounts of sugar every day. They DO regularly consume plates of starchy white carbs that are 2x, 3x, 4x + the right portion size.

Thus the important lifestyle change is learning how to moderate their non-sugar carb intake.

[Cherie]

I think the latter is the bigger, harder and more important step because changing what you put in your tea and avoiding sugary snacks and drinks is a relatively "simple" change.

The "normal" western diet as standard is so packed full of empty bulky carbs in the form of bread, pasta, potatoes, white rice etc. that it's a harder message to get across and also a harder change to make, requiring adjustments to every single meal rather than just simple abstinence.

In other words, you'll have a much tougher time convincing someone that their pasta salad isn't good for them than you will with a Mars Bar.

Just as you haven't said "go eat a whole loaf of bread", I've obviously never said that unlimited sugar would be a good idea, on calorie count alone it would be terrible.

My point has been that - in general - most people at risk of diabetes do NOT gorge themselves silly on huge amounts of sugar every day. They DO regularly consume plates of starchy white carbs that are 2x, 3x, 4x + the right portion size.

Thus the important lifestyle change is learning how to moderate their non-sugar carb intake.

:laugh: have we come full circle to old fashioned moderation

[user104658]

:laugh: have we come full circle to old fashioned moderation

Actually, no... :joker:... I still think people who have a real problem controlling their blood sugar are safer avoiding bulk carbs completely. Having a small amount of carbs makes you hungry for more carbs and people who are already at the point of being pre-diabetic or having Type 2 are almost always coming from a place of lifelong poor eating habits - taking that craving out of the equation is going to be much more helpful than relying on sheer willpower.

[Kizzy]

I think the latter is the bigger, harder and more important step because changing what you put in your tea and avoiding sugary snacks and drinks is a relatively "simple" change.

The "normal" western diet as standard is so packed full of empty bulky carbs in the form of bread, pasta, potatoes, white rice etc. that it's a harder message to get across and also a harder change to make, requiring adjustments to every single meal rather than just simple abstinence.

In other words, you'll have a much tougher time convincing someone that their pasta salad isn't good for them than you will with a Mars Bar.

Just as you haven't said "go eat a whole loaf of bread", I've obviously never said that unlimited sugar would be a good idea, on calorie count alone it would be terrible.

My point has been that - in general - most people at risk of diabetes do NOT gorge themselves silly on huge amounts of sugar every day. They DO regularly consume plates of starchy white carbs that are 2x, 3x, 4x + the right portion size.

Thus the important lifestyle change is learning how to moderate their non-sugar carb intake.
I don't think it is that simple tbh, for many just cutting out Mars bars will be enough and there would be no need whatsoever to forgo a pasta salad. For many that is taking reducing your food choices to an extreme and is entirely unnecessary.

[Cherie]

Actually, no... :joker:... I still think people who have a real problem controlling their blood sugar are safer avoiding bulk carbs completely. Having a small amount of carbs makes you hungry for more carbs and people who are already at the point of being pre-diabetic or having Type 2 are almost always coming from a place of lifelong poor eating habits - taking that craving out of the equation is going to be much more helpful than relying on sheer willpower.

Sorry I don’t agree, it’s much easier for most to cut down than cut out food types, that’s why calorie controlled diets work better than faddy ones like Atkins

[Cherie]

I don't think it is that simple tbh, for many just cutting out Mars bars will be enough and there would be no need whatsoever to forgo a pasta salad. For many that is taking reducing your food choices to an extreme and is entirely unnecessary.

I agree with Kizzy, don’t faint :hehe:

[user104658]

Sorry I don’t agree, it’s much easier for most to cut down than cut out food types, that’s why calorie controlled diets work better than faddy ones like AtkinsBut I'm advocating for cutting down bulk carbs while Kizzy is advocating for cutting out anything that contains sugar... The latter results in a far more restricted diet than the former and one that is far more prone to slipping.

I think you might be confusing cutting bulk empty starchy white carbs with "carb counting"/low-carbing/atkins which isn't what I'm talking about at all. :hee:

[Marsh.]

I don't think it is that simple tbh, for many just cutting out Mars bars will be enough

Unless they used to eat Mars bars literally all day long, cutting that out isn't going to have much impact.

[Cherie]

Actually, no... :joker:... I still think people who have a real problem controlling their blood sugar are safer avoiding bulk carbs completely. Having a small amount of carbs makes you hungry for more carbs and people who are already at the point of being pre-diabetic or having Type 2 are almost always coming from a place of lifelong poor eating habits - taking that craving out of the equation is going to be much more helpful than relying on sheer willpower.

But I'm advocating for cutting down bulk carbs while Kizzy is advocating for cutting out anything that contains sugar... The latter results in a far more restricted diet than the former and one that is far more prone to slipping.

I think you might be confusing cutting bulk empty starchy white carbs with "carb counting"/low-carbing/atkins which isn't what I'm talking about at all. :hee:


. i think you are the one that is confused :smug:

You have moved from avoiding altogether to cutting down in the space of a few hours

[smudgie]

Cutting carbs or ditching the Mars bars.

As a diabetic who monitors and controls her sugars..I suggest you cut the carbs.

[Kizzy]

But I'm advocating for cutting down bulk carbs while Kizzy is advocating for cutting out anything that contains sugar... The latter results in a far more restricted diet than the former and one that is far more prone to slipping.

I think you might be confusing cutting bulk empty starchy white carbs with "carb counting"/low-carbing/atkins which isn't what I'm talking about at all. :hee:

You're advocating cutting out chip butties, pasta salads.. they are meals. I'm suggesting stopping snacking, there's nothing wrong with that. There is lots of hidden sugar in juices, fizzy pop and alcohol too so you don't have to sit eating Mars bars all day, many people drink more sugar than they eat.

[Cherie]

Cutting carbs or ditching the Mars bars.

As a diabetic who monitors and controls her sugars..I suggest you cut the carbs.

As a matter of interest Smudgie have you cut them out altogether?

[bots]

Many carbs are good for you and are required by the body to function correctly. Also carbs differ very greatly in type. Things like oats and lentils are extremely good for you, stop you feeling hungry for longer and don't spike your blood sugar levels

[Zizu]

I gather the latest studies are suggesting that fat isn’t that bad for you compared to the real danger ... sugar .

Sugar is apparently the real KILLER out there .

Sadly it’s so addictive and so difficult to reduce dramatically never mind exclude totally .




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[user104658]

You're advocating cutting out chip butties, pasta salads.. they are meals. I'm suggesting stopping snacking, there's nothing wrong with that. There is lots of hidden sugar in juices, fizzy pop and alcohol too so you don't have to sit eating Mars bars all day, many people drink more sugar than they eat.

I agree on the fizzy juice I think that's one for everyone regardless, too many people drink it like water when really it should be an occasional thing, like with a meal out or whatever. And with alcohol I obviously agree for a whole host of health reasons both physical and otherwise. I'm not 100% anti-alcohol I think it's fine to have socially on special occasions (a birthday party, a wedding etc.) but I really think people "drinking for the sake of drinking" is one of the UK's biggest health problems. That's not a battle worth talking about though, I've come to accept that people love their 2 daily glasses of wine/weekend binge/both and will never see an issue with it.

When you talk about cutting out sugar though - what about fructose? Because I think "chip butty vs Mars bar" is a bit of a non-starter as an argument... No one thinks either is a good food choice... Surely.

But what about a bowl of pasta, vs an apple and a banana?

The latter is full of fructose and many who are cutting sugars would cut out fruit entirely.

[smudgie]

As a matter of interest Smudgie have you cut them out altogether?

No, everything in moderation.
Slow release carbs plus fruit and veg.
The size of your meal makes a massive difference as well.
Not a Mads bar fan but quite partial to a chocolate orange occasionally.

[Kizzy]

I agree on the fizzy juice I think that's one for everyone regardless, too many people drink it like water when really it should be an occasional thing, like with a meal out or whatever. And with alcohol I obviously agree for a whole host of health reasons both physical and otherwise. I'm not 100% anti-alcohol I think it's fine to have socially on special occasions (a birthday party, a wedding etc.) but I really think people "drinking for the sake of drinking" is one of the UK's biggest health problems. That's not a battle worth talking about though, I've come to accept that people love their 2 daily glasses of wine/weekend binge/both and will never see an issue with it.

When you talk about cutting out sugar though - what about fructose? Because I think "chip butty vs Mars bar" is a bit of a non-starter as an argument... No one thinks either is a good food choice... Surely.

But what about a bowl of pasta, vs an apple and a banana?

The latter is full of fructose and many who are cutting sugars would cut out fruit entirely.

Fruit is sugar the only benefits are the fibre, potassium and such so you would be cutting off your nose to spite your face to give those up entirely whereas all other sweeties and sugar laden snacks have nothing to offer.

You wouldn't sit and eat a whole bunch of bananas would you? Earlier you suggested yoghurt as part of your diet plan, to me this isn't really beneficial unless containing live culture it's just more sugar and more of a snack than part of a meal.

When considering fruit and yoghurt there are other benefits to offset the sugar, and if not snacking or drinking sugar pre diabetics can justify the trade. For me this is the perfect substitute , you're less likely to feel you're denied everything if things like the occasional piece of fruit or yoghurt is tolerated rather than go cold turkey.

[Cherie]

No, everything in moderation.
Slow release carbs plus fruit and veg.
The size of your meal makes a massive difference as well.
Not a Mads bar fan but quite partial to a chocolate orange occasionally.

Yes I would say that is the best approach

[Kizzy]

No, everything in moderation.
Slow release carbs plus fruit and veg.
The size of your meal makes a massive difference as well.
Not a Mads bar fan but quite partial to a chocolate orange occasionally.

By the same token if you were partial to a chip butty occasionally then you would be able to factor that in and it not be detrimental smudgie?

[user104658]

Fruit is sugar the only benefits are the fibre, potassium and such so you would be cutting off your nose to spite your face to give those up entirely whereas all other sweeties and sugar laden snacks have nothing to offer.



You wouldn't sit and eat a whole bunch of bananas would you? Earlier you suggested yoghurt as part of your diet plan, to me this isn't really beneficial unless containing live culture it's just more sugar and more of a snack than part of a meal.



When considering fruit and yoghurt there are other benefits to offset the sugar, and if not snacking or drinking sugar pre diabetics can justify the trade. For me this is the perfect substitute , you're less likely to feel you're denied everything if things like the occasional piece of fruit or yoghurt is tolerated rather than go cold turkey.Hmm. To be fair when it comes to not being denied things I'm more a fan of the 6/1 or 5/2 rule (aka eat what you want at the weekend even if it's a full domino's pizza and a family size bar of chocolate) BUT that's obviously not for people with diabetes or pre-diabetes, just as a general rule... So not so relevant in this thread, I suppose. I think it works well for people who generally want to eat healthily but still not feel frustrated with denial - the temptation to be unhealthy isn't so difficult to power through if it's just a case of "NO! You can have that on Saturday..."

[Kizzy]

Hmm. To be fair when it comes to not being denied things I'm more a fan of the 6/1 or 5/2 rule (aka eat what you want at the weekend even if it's a full domino's pizza and a family size bar of chocolate) BUT that's obviously not for people with diabetes or pre-diabetes, just as a general rule... So not so relevant in this thread, I suppose. I think it works well for people who generally want to eat healthily but still not feel frustrated with denial - the temptation to be unhealthy isn't so difficult to power through if it's just a case of "NO! You can have that on Saturday..."

That's probably how people become pre diabetic in the first place, binge eating and wildly spiking blood sugars. It's the opposite of everything else you've advocated in the thread :/

[smudgie]

By the same token if you were partial to a chip butty occasionally then you would be able to factor that in and it not be detrimental smudgie?

Yes, of course Kizzy.
Moderation s the magic word.

[Zizu]

Well the wife says I’m excluding bread from my diet starting today up to Christmas ...


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[user104658]

That's probably how people become pre diabetic in the first place, binge eating and wildly spiking blood sugars. It's the opposite of everything else you've advocated in the thread :/

It's not what I would advocate for people who are at Type-2/Pre-diabetes risk or are already overweight, it's perfectly safe for people who are in shape/good health and want to stay that way but also want to be able to "let their hair down".

Healthy people's blood sugar is self-regulating and doesn't spike. That's sort of the point, really.

[Kizzy]

It's not what I would advocate for people who are at Type-2/Pre-diabetes risk or are already overweight, it's perfectly safe for people who are in shape/good health and want to stay that way but also want to be able to "let their hair down".

Healthy people's blood sugar is self-regulating and doesn't spike. That's sort of the point, really.

I'm sorry I don't agree, binge eating or drinking at weekends will tax the body, however healthy you are if you over indulge then eventually it will have a detrimental affect.
Not everyone would class that behaviour as healthy.

[user104658]

I'm sorry I don't agree, binge eating or drinking at weekends will tax the body, however healthy you are if you over indulge then eventually it will have a detrimental affect.
Not everyone would class that behaviour as healthy.

I didn't say that the behaviour is healthy, it certainly isn't optimal, I said it's safe for healthy people.

[Kizzy]

I didn't say that the behaviour is healthy, it certainly isn't optimal, I said it's safe for healthy people.

And how do healthy people become unhealthy?... They binge eat at weekends. That kind of behaviour isn't safe for anyone long term.

[user104658]

And how do healthy people become unhealthy?... They binge eat at weekends. That kind of behaviour isn't safe for anyone long term.Fit and healthy people who are active and mostly eating healthily don't go to bed on a Saturday night trim and wake up fat with diabetes... We can't babystep people all of the time; people know when they're feeling less fit and gaining weight in plenty of time to act on that before it becomes an actual health problem (should they want to).

You're essentially saying that even fit, healthy weight people shouldn't enjoy unhealthy food... Ever. Weren't you criticising me for "extreme" diet ideas before? I can't think of anything more extreme than insisting that already-healthy individuals can't indulge occasionally. That also IMO is the absolute quickest route to frustration, broken willpower and total abandonment of general healthy eating.

[Kizzy]

Fit and healthy people who are active and mostly eating healthily don't go to bed on a Saturday night trim and wake up fat with diabetes... We can't babystep people all of the time; people know when they're feeling less fit and gaining weight in plenty of time to act on that before it becomes an actual health problem (should they want to).

You're essentially saying that even fit, healthy weight people shouldn't enjoy unhealthy food... Ever. Weren't you criticising me for "extreme" diet ideas before? I can't think of anything more extreme than insisting that already-healthy individuals can't indulge occasionally. That also IMO is the absolute quickest route to frustration, broken willpower and total abandonment of general healthy eating.

Yes.. I'm saying that if healthy people eat unhealthily 2 days out of 7 it will, over time, not overnight cause issues. I don't agree with you saying healthy people's blood sugars don't spike.. of course they will, if you eat well 5 days then eat a massive pizza and family size bar of chocolate that would cause a spike.

Lean healthy people are not wired differently, if you eat large amounts of food and sugar your blood sugars will spike. For me eating silly amounts of unhealthy foods like that some days will lead to craving those foods other days too and is long term not a good idea.

As smudgie said, and was my point from the start if you want a slice of pizza (or chip butty) or a bit of chocolate have some... denying yourself all week then eating the whole thing is counterproductive and basically is the bad eating habits that lead to health issues. And is effectively an example of broken willpower, as had you not denied yourself all week you perhaps wouldn't feel the need to eat a family sized bar on Saturday out of frustration?

[user104658]

Yes.. I'm saying that if healthy people eat unhealthily 2 days out of 7 it will, over time, not overnight cause issues. I don't agree with you saying healthy people's blood sugars don't spike.. of course they will, if you eat well 5 days then eat a massive pizza and family size bar of chocolate that would cause a spike.



Lean healthy people are not wired differently, if you eat large amounts of food and sugar your blood sugars will spike. For me eating silly amounts of unhealthy foods like that some days will lead to craving those foods other days too and is long term not a good idea.



As smudgie said, and was my point from the start if you want a slice of pizza (or chip butty) or a bit of chocolate have some... denying yourself all week then eating the whole thing is counterproductive and basically is the bad eating habits that lead to health issues. And is effectively an example of broken willpower, as had you not denied yourself all week you perhaps wouldn't feel the need to eat a family sized bar on Saturday out of frustration?Only if you're looking at it from the perspective of "binging out of frustration", rather than simply "not having to think about it too much on those days". Realistically if you're generally eating well you're not going to eat a large pizza and a family sized bar of chocolate without getting full or feeling sick, the point was more to illustrate that its OK to not think about this stuff for a couple of days a week, dine out with your family and order what you want (or a take-away in Covid times) without pouring over the menus for the healthy option, and have some snacks with a movie on the evening.

To be fair, I can also accept that my viewpoint on this has its limits as a 6'2 well built sexy feller; my calorie intake is relatively high as standard, I don't really need to count them at all and so that doesn't come into the equation like it would for, say, a 5'2 female. The difference isn't in eating more at weekends, it's just in not having to "be healthy" with fats, proteins, fruit & veg and nuts/seeds/pulses and swapping them out for naughty stuff. Like refined sugar and dirty empty carbs. Trough of macaroni cheese and a pack of tangfastics. Mmm.

[Kizzy]

Only if you're looking at it from the perspective of "binging out of frustration", rather than simply "not having to think about it too much on those days". Realistically if you're generally eating well you're not going to eat a large pizza and a family sized bar of chocolate without getting full or feeling sick, the point was more to illustrate that its OK to not think about this stuff for a couple of days a week, dine out with your family and order what you want (or a take-away in Covid times) without pouring over the menus for the healthy option, and have some snacks with a movie on the evening.

To be fair, I can also accept that my viewpoint on this has its limits as a 6'2 well built sexy feller; my calorie intake is relatively high as standard, I don't really need to count them at all and so that doesn't come into the equation like it would for, say, a 5'2 female. The difference isn't in eating more at weekends, it's just in not having to "be healthy" with fats, proteins, fruit & veg and nuts/seeds/pulses and swapping them out for naughty stuff. Like refined sugar and dirty empty carbs. Trough of macaroni cheese and a pack of tangfastics. Mmm.

Right, so we've gone from what's OK for pre diabetics, to healthy people, to you. OK, you do you.

[user104658]

Right, so we've gone from what's OK for pre diabetics, to healthy people, to you. OK, you do you.

No, once again I'd reiterate that for all healthy people the most sensible option is to follow a healthy diet most of the time but allow some leeway for "not thinking about it" every so often, and that it's generally easier to maintain that way than daily vigilance. I think it's easier to say "should I have this? Hmm OK it's the weekend" than "should I have this? Hmm well let me think about what else I've had today..." every day.

We don't have to agree :hee:.