Millwall fans boo thier own players for taking the knee.

[Beso]

https://youtu.be/f-A-ZiQsuUk

Disgusting, absolutely sick.

[Oliver_W]

:joker:

What're they playing at, it's the UK, not 18th century America...

[Mystic Mock]

I'm not 100% behind everything that BLM does if I'm being 100% honest, but booing it? No because the basic principles behind BLM are perfectly acceptable to support imo.

Trust some of the Millwall fans to give their club a bad name.

[joeysteele]

Well with so few of them there, it should be very easy to identify them and to ensure those so called fans don't get in again.

[Beso]

I'm not 100% behind everything that BLM does if I'm being 100% honest, but booing it? No because the basic principles behind BLM are perfectly acceptable to support imo.

Trust some of the Millwall fans to give their club a bad name.

But surely these must be life long fans first in line for entry on the first game back..its a bad look for the club that's for sure..I had 3 friends there today who ended up on TV.. they wernt even boing but were shown in a clip on the news..

[Alf]

Don't bring divisive politics to your place of work then, especially when you're working for the people of the community.

Take that sh!t to social media.

Get used to it, because as long as they keep kneeling, they're gonna get boo'd, that's just the way it is.

The only way to stop that, is to leave your divisive politics at home and get on with the job you're paid for, playing football.

[AnnieK]

I don't see how taking the knee is classed as divisive politics. Although its linked to BLM, which people believe is a political movement, football have been trying to eradicate racism for years...they now have some form of symbolism to show how against racism in the game they are. Unless you are happy for black players to be called monkeys or worse, I don't see how you can boo what is nothing more than a symbolic gesture against racism

[Beso]

Why even bother booing though, it's like a 3 second knee..then back up for the kick off..

I would be too busy munching a pie to even care about what was happening before kick off.

[Marsh.]

not 18th century America...

Is it exhausting being that ignorant or does it come natural?

[thesheriff443]

It’s a two way street at the end of end day, if people want to show their support for blm by going on one knee then people should be allowed to boo because they don’t agree with.

My personal opinion is going down on one knee bollox and just for show.

[AnnieK]

It’s a two way street at the end of end day, if people want to show their support for blm by going on one knee then people should be allowed to boo because they don’t agree with.

My personal opinion is going down on one knee bollox and just for show.

Football have been fighting against racism for years though....they now have a symbolic gesture to make a stand....how can that be bollocks??

[Marsh.]

It’s a two way street at the end of end day

In regards to racism, it really isn't.

[Shaun]

I'm not 100% behind everything that BLM does if I'm being 100% honest, but booing it? No because the basic principles behind BLM are perfectly acceptable to support imo.

Trust some of the Millwall fans to give their club a bad name.

The gesture is adopted by Kick It Out, so everyone booing it isn't even criticising BLM; they're criticising the ongoing football racism group. Not that I expect Millwall fans or your usuals on this thread to understand or care about such nuances.

[jet]

Why does everything have to be 'you can do this but you can't do that' and so devisive these days?
You can show support by taking the knee and you can boo because you don't agree with taking the knee for whatever reason. Both responses are called 'freedom of expression'. Humans just don't march in lockstep, they never have and they never will. The more they are pushed to conform one way or the other in current issues, the more deeply entrenched their own stance becomes. Human nature again.

[Shaun]

"Both responses are called freedom of expression" - in an environment catered to by a business. The football governing bodies are well within their rights to dictate what is and isn't allowed within a club's stadium, and if Millwall had any sense, they'll be issuing bans to idiots who follow suit. To even compare the two "responses" is just... alarming, though. One is a quiet gesture, the other is aggressive noise. One calls for racial equality, the other can't get to grips with what that means and reacts angrily to things they don't understand.

[arista]

https://youtu.be/f-A-ZiQsuUk

Disgusting, absolutely sick.




Yes they think its Trendy.


But BLM Political are dangerous

[Kizzy]

Where's the respect? Where's it written that you can't express support for anyone on a human level...it's not political in the slightest.
If you want to show support take the knee, if you don't. .don't. Why mock those that do? Baying like pack of baboons isn't going to stop them, and effectively this aggressively negative reaction by certain 'fans' compounds just why that support is needed.

[Marsh.]

Why does everything have to be 'you can do this but you can't do that' and so devisive these days?
You can show support by taking the knee and you can boo because you don't agree with taking the knee for whatever reason. Both responses are called 'freedom of expression'. Humans just don't march in lockstep, they never have and they never will. The more they are pushed to conform one way or the other in current issues, the more deeply entrenched their own stance becomes. Human nature again.

You're asking why does everything have to be so divisive and THEN suggesting it's perfectly fine for people to boo a call for racial equality? :facepalm:

[thesheriff443]

Football have been fighting against racism for years though....they now have a symbolic gesture to make a stand....how can that be bollocks??

Footballers receive a disgusting amount of money for kicking a ball when you have someone on minimum wage cleaning up another persons p1ss and sh1t

Stop the one knee bollox and donate money from their wages to actually fight racism in their local communitys.

Going down on s knee for a few seconds is not going to change anyone’s life.

[thesheriff443]

In regards to racism, it really isn't.

It’s better to see acts of racism than let it go un noticed and unchallenged.

[Marsh.]

It’s better to see acts of racism than let it go un noticed and unchallenged.

How is taking the knee letting it go unnoticed?

It's doing exactly what you suggest, publicly condemning it.

[Oliver_W]

People don't watch football games for boring "virtue signals" relating to foreign countries, especially when it's something the media didn't shut up about all summer.

[Marsh.]

People don't watch football games for boring "virtue signals" relating to foreign countries, especially when it's something the media didn't shut up about all summer.

Yet racism is a problem in football. Not heard you complain that you don't watch football for that.

[Oliver_W]

Yet racism is a problem in football.

How is it?

[AnnieK]

How is it?

Have you not heard of black players being racially abused by fans? Racism is a big problem in football, hence the Kick It Out campaign. Listen to the likes of Stirling, Rashford telling of the abuse they've had directed at them from fans and then tell them that racism isn't still rife in the game

[thesheriff443]

How is taking the knee letting it go unnoticed?

It's doing exactly what you suggest, publicly condemning it.

The fact that fans were booing will make the headlines not that the players took the iknee.

People need to see and hear Racism so it can be challenged.

[bots]

Taking the knee does nothing for me personally, but as long as there is racism in football, i see nothing wrong with drawing attention and support for the cause. The booing just shows that there is still a long way to go

[user104658]

Footballers receive a disgusting amount of money for kicking a ball when you have someone on minimum wage cleaning up another persons p1ss and sh1t



Stop the one knee bollox and donate money from their wages to actually fight racism in their local communitys.



Going down on s knee for a few seconds is not going to change anyone’s life.I agree with this actually Sheriff; I find the signals, salutes, symbols, chants and mantras utterly meaningless if they're being done in lieu of more meaningful words and actions. In fact, it plays into something else that I'm inherently against (tribal behaviours, group thinking, collectivism) and thus its not something I'd ever do. I wouldn't boo it, though. That's just more of the same to be honest.

That said, football fans never STOP singing, chanting and group gesturing so it's a bit hypocritical in this case, and I imagine most of them are booing because they don't like the message, rather than the method.

[Marsh.]

The fact that fans were booing will make the headlines not that the players took the iknee.

People need to see and hear Racism so it can be challenged.

Without the players taking the knee there wouldn't be something to boo. So, a poor defence of racism there.

[Marsh.]

How is it?

Oh is this the bit when you pretend racism isn't an issue?

Not interested, Oliver.

[thesheriff443]

Without the players taking the knee there wouldn't be something to boo. So, a poor defence of racism there.

There is no defence for racism but taking the knee won’t stop racism.

[Marsh.]

There is no defence for racism but taking the knee won’t stop racism.

Nobody's suggested it will.

If yoy've contorted a reason that the booing is a positive thing for anti-racism campaigning then there is no issue with taking the knee.

[thesheriff443]

Nobody's suggested it will.

If yoy've contorted a reason that the booing is a positive thing for anti-racism campaigning then there is no issue with taking the knee.

You said I had a poor defence for racism I’m not defending racism I’m saying when acts of racism are shown it does more for the fact racism is unacceptable that people taking the knee.

[Marsh.]

You said I had a poor defence for racism I’m not defending racism I’m saying when acts of racism are shown it does more for the fact racism is unacceptable that people taking the knee.

Yes, it is a poor defence. "Let it carry on so we know it's bad".

[Nicky91]

it is kinda unacceptable those fans are booing their own players for just doing a good thing, being against racism


i hope the UEFA hasn't seen this (cuz if so, and they are very much anti-racism, i can see the team being fined for the actions of the supporters, since UEFA wants best behaviour possible from all fans)


chants, singing, cheering is allowed, as long as it's not racist, homophobic or insulting with diseases or rude

[jet]

"Both responses are called freedom of expression" - in an environment catered to by a business. The football governing bodies are well within their rights to dictate what is and isn't allowed within a club's stadium, and if Millwall had any sense, they'll be issuing bans to idiots who follow suit. To even compare the two "responses" is just... alarming, though. One is a quiet gesture, the other is aggressive noise. One calls for racial equality, the other can't get to grips with what that means and reacts angrily to things they don't understand.

No moral comparison was being made. The footballers have a right to take the knee and some spectators have a right to show their disapproval.You don’t have to agree with peoples actions or opinions to believe they have the right to express them. Freedom of expression and freedom of speech (within the law or rules of a particular entity) are as vital to a democratic society as the right to strive for equality for all its citizens.

[thesheriff443]

Yes, it is a poor defence. "Let it carry on so we know it's bad".

There is no point having a conversation with you I shall be out and about today as always treating every one I meet as equal regardless of their skin colour.

[jet]

There is no point having a conversation with you I shall be out and about today as always treating every one I meet as equal regardless of their skin colour.

Well said sheriff. Have a good day! :clap2:

[Marsh.]

There is no point having a conversation with you I shall be out and about today as always treating every one I meet as equal regardless of their skin colour.

You're incapable it seems. How YOU treat other people was never the discussion.

Bye.

[Marsh.]

Well said sheriff. Have a good day! :clap2:

:joker: Obsessed.

[Marsh.]

No moral comparison was being made. The footballers have a right to take the knee and some spectators have a right to show their disapproval.You don’t have to agree with peoples actions or opinions to believe they have the right to express them. Freedom of expression and freedom of speech (within the law or rules of a particular entity) are as vital to a democratic society as the right to strive for equality for all its citizens.

Freedom of expression is not being able to be racist or support racism publicly and freely without consequence. Especially in someone else's space who do not tolerate it.

[Mystic Mock]

The gesture is adopted by Kick It Out, so everyone booing it isn't even criticising BLM; they're criticising the ongoing football racism group. Not that I expect Millwall fans or your usuals on this thread to understand or care about such nuances.

Sadly the Millwall fans are playing to a negative stereotype that's associated with their club.

And personally I don't get why people are so against not wanting to chant racist stuff at a player. Unless you're (not you specifically) are a racist.

[Kizzy]

Footballers receive a disgusting amount of money for kicking a ball when you have someone on minimum wage cleaning up another persons p1ss and sh1t

Stop the one knee bollox and donate money from their wages to actually fight racism in their local communitys.

Going down on s knee for a few seconds is not going to change anyone’s life.
Lots of people earn a lot of money, having money doesn't mean you can't express support..it isn't only poor people who get to show solidarity. Why the suggestion they throw money at an issue that is so mired in fundamental bias from the grass roots?
As in the actions of government, the media, the police.. there is discrimination from the top down, how can one guy throwing a couple of thousand quid address and tackle subjects like Windrush, stop and search, deaths in custody, demonisation... they can't, he'll be mocked as a virtue signaller or SJW and nothing will change.

Footballers are people first, just like the piss and shiz cleaners, they want change but they are not the change..That's why we have policy and law makers, that's their job.

[Zizu]

:joker:

What're they playing at, it's the UK, not 18th century America...



I’d honestly ban the whole crowd for the rest of the season .


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Mystic Mock]

I’d honestly ban the whole crowd for the rest of the season .


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

That's a bit harsh to the Millwall fans that didn't boo.

[Kizzy]

I agree with this actually Sheriff; I find the signals, salutes, symbols, chants and mantras utterly meaningless if they're being done in lieu of more meaningful words and actions. In fact, it plays into something else that I'm inherently against (tribal behaviours, group thinking, collectivism) and thus its not something I'd ever do. I wouldn't boo it, though. That's just more of the same to be honest.

That said, football fans never STOP singing, chanting and group gesturing so it's a bit hypocritical in this case, and I imagine most of them are booing because they don't like the message, rather than the method.

Historically how has any marginalised group facilitated change?
They have galvanised, protested, petitioned or in other way's adopted symbols of solidarity.

For me these have meaning, they are a precursor to real change and most progressive policies and systems of rights
we have today initially involved groups who garnered public support with chants and mantras.

So personally I think it's great to see higher profile people sending out this kind of message, they have a greater reach and fan base to raise awareness, this in turn puts pressure on the powers that be to address the status quo.

I agree that those booing aren't too bothered about the method shown here, as you say they just don't want to see support for this cause. We could suggest reasons why... but that would be speculation of course.

[Zizu]

That's a bit harsh to the Millwall fans that didn't boo.



They’ve tolerated all kinds of nonsense/abuse from their fellow fans for over 20 years.. maybe it’s time they did something about the problem themselves..

Presumably the ‘bad uns’ all have family , friends or work colleagues who go to the games and never cause any problems


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[Oliver_W]

It's a shame there's not an organisation other than BLM for celebs to get behind. When they trigger violent riots after a black guy was shot for running at the cops with a knife (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8882839/Protests-erupt-Philadelphia-police-shot-killed-knife-wielding-black-man-27.html), it's clear they just want an excuse to riot.

[Kizzy]

“The players have come out and said they don’t support the political aspect, but they do support the anti-discrimination aspect of it … The club does an enormous amount of work on anti-racism.”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/dec/06/millwall-fans-who-booed-players-taking-a-knee-should-be-respected-says-eustice

[Tom4784]

Milwall supporters are a bunch of racist violent scum anyway. I don't even follow football but that club's reputation is just that gross.

[Tom4784]

Don't bring divisive politics to your place of work then, especially when you're working for the people of the community.

Take that sh!t to social media.

Get used to it, because as long as they keep kneeling, they're gonna get boo'd, that's just the way it is.

The only way to stop that, is to leave your divisive politics at home and get on with the job you're paid for, playing football.

So basically, a bunch of racist snowflakes got upset over people kneeling, okay.

[joeysteele]

Freedom of expression is not being able to be racist or support racism publicly and freely without consequence. Especially in someone else's space who do not tolerate it.

I've said a piece on this incident earlier.
With so few there, it should be easy to identify the ones who booed.
Then just bar them coming again if they are going to act so disrespectfully.

It must be easy to find out who did at this time.

As to your post above Marsh, I agree 100% to what you've said.

[arista]

1335520396653817857

[arista]

1335490191277117441

[arista]

https://pbs.twimg.com/card_img/1333896070821273601/IuZ49Tn0?format=jpg&name=small

[Marsh.]

I've said a piece on this incident earlier.
With so few there, it should be easy to identify the ones who booed.
Then just bar them coming again if they are going to act so disrespectfully.

It must be easy to find out who did at this time.

As to your post above Marsh, I agree 100% to what you've said.

Spot on, Joey.

[Tom4784]

1335490191277117441

The Karen energy in this tweet is far too much.

Imagine being so opposed to racial equality.

[The Slim Reaper]

Brought to you by the anti-snowflake, free speech, Galahad coalition who spend half their time moaning about those things, and the other half acting like snowflakes and trying to censor the free speech of others.

https://media4.giphy.com/media/B1SGR1LN5kxHqfwzrr/giphy.gif

[arista]

The Karen energy in this tweet is far too much.

Imagine being so opposed to racial equality.


Sure
I can see your view on Martin.

[Shaun]

can we just stick to one topic of discussion rather than turn this into another snowball of "grrrr!!! BLM!!!!" ire? especially when the OP is about a gesture displayed by Kick It Out and No Room For Racism, and originally comes from Colin Kaepernick - independently of BLM?

Because the whole conversation is just muddled and nobody who's criticising the kneel seems to know who tf they're even criticising. Unless it's all anti-racist organisations, in which case... they're probably racist :unsure:

[arista]

can we just stick to one topic of discussion rather than turn this into another snowball of "grrrr!!! BLM!!!!" ire? especially when the OP is about a gesture displayed by Kick It Out and No Room For Racism, and originally comes from Colin Kaepernick - independently of BLM?

Because the whole conversation is just muddled and nobody who's criticising the kneel seems to know who tf they're even criticising. Unless it's all anti-racist organisations, in which case... they're probably racist :unsure:



No
BLM Political is Trouble.

[Oliver_W]

can we just stick to one topic of discussion rather than turn this into another snowball of "grrrr!!! BLM!!!!" ire? especially when the OP is about a gesture displayed by Kick It Out and No Room For Racism, and originally comes from Colin Kaepernick - independently of BLM?

Because the whole conversation is just muddled and nobody who's criticising the kneel seems to know who tf they're even criticising. Unless it's all anti-racist organisations, in which case... they're probably racist :unsure:

That's fair - I said I wanted to hear voices which aren't BLM, and that's what those guys are :)

[GiRTh]

As Shaun rightly points out, the 'kick it out' campaign was formed in 1993. However somehow it is now linked to BLM. :conf:

It seems like any anti -racism organisation can now be linked to BLM who many claim to be a violent organisation. Job done, the narrative has been changed. :thumbs:

[Dogeatdog]

Millwall have always had a negative stereotype attached to them and I think it’s a great shame to those fans who are more respectful and were just happy to support their team from the stands again rather than a TV screen.

[Beso]

Milwall supporters are a bunch of racist violent scum anyway. I don't even follow football but that club's reputation is just that gross.

My 3 friends who attended yesterdays game definitely ain't violent or racist.:shrug:

[The Slim Reaper]

watch to the end.

6PEnTVc7ktk

[UserSince2005]

kick the ball or **** off you brain dead imbeciles

[GiRTh]

kick the ball or **** off you brain dead imbecilesSimple as that eh?

With so many black players in the league if they all f&&k off then there wont be much of a league left but if you think thats a solution then good on you. :thumbs:

[Dogeatdog]

Milwall supporters are a bunch of racist violent scum anyway. I don't even follow football but that club's reputation is just that gross.

I disagree with you a bit here Dezzy I’ll be honest. All football clubs have their fair share of fans who are pretty awful and unpleasant and Millwall admittedly in the past have shown to have a wider portion of fans that fall into this category than some other clubs. I agree where you say that Millwall have a poor reputation but it doesn’t represent the whole fan base.

There are fans of Millwall who support the club, that are very respectful and don’t share the same views as those booing before yesterday’s game and don't follow and agree with the hooliganism that’s attached to the club so I think it’s unfair to tarnish those fans with that brush. Those people just want to support their club and enjoy watching a game of football.

[Kizzy]

kick the ball or **** off you brain dead imbeciles

Can you explain how the term 'brain dead' is applicable in this instance? ...
I'm going to presume you can't but have a go anyway.

[Stu]

Can you explain how the term 'brain dead' is applicable in this instance? ...
I'm going to presume you can't but have a go anyway.
I wouldn't read into it. I think it's just how people who are raised from the nip on American reality TV and giphy speak.

[GiRTh]

I disagree with you a bit here Dezzy I’ll be honest. All football clubs have their fair share of fans who are pretty awful and unpleasant and Millwall admittedly in the past have shown to have a wider portion of fans that fall into this category than some other clubs. I agree where you say that Millwall have a poor reputation but it doesn’t represent the whole fan base.

There are fans of Millwall who support the club, that are very respectful and don’t share the same views as those booing before yesterday’s game and don't follow and agree with the hooliganism that’s attached to the club so I think it’s unfair to tarnish those fans with that brush. Those people just want to support their club and enjoy watching a game of football.I appreciate what you're trying to say but arent you shocked and stunned that such a small sample of Millwall fans still contained this element. To the best of my knowledge this didnt happen at any other ground. I think its difficult to defend Millwall fans over this instance.

[Dogeatdog]

I appreciate what you're trying to say but arent you shocked and stunned that such a small sample of Millwall fans still contained this element. To the best of my knowledge this didnt happen at any other ground. I think its difficult to defend Millwall fans over this instance.

Oh yes definitely GiRTh, it’s such a disrespectful thing to do considering everything that has happened so far this year and it really does show that we are very far from kicking racism out of football at the moment, it was very disappointing to see those fans react this way yesterday. I do find it worrying that there is the possibility of this happening in other fixtures too judging by some comments I’ve seen from various posters on other sites where they believed the Millwall fans were right in what they did.

I’ve seen comments that it apparently happened in the West Ham game yesterday but I haven’t actually been able to find evidence of it happening so I don’t believe it to be true.

I just feel bad for the Millwall fans that disagreed with what happened yesterday since they will be tarnished with the same brush is all.

[Stu]

One would hope some of the more progressive of their contingent get tickets soon and use the opportunity to put out a positive message and perhaps give a clap to the display, because right now it's simply a case of Millwall taking the dubious mantle back from the Burnley sadact who put the White Lives Matter banner over Manchester.

Fingers crossed, eh.

[GiRTh]

Agree with both comments above. Its up to the other fans to say something. Before lockdown most clubs were quite good at rooting out this element from the stands, so the leagues and the clubs are going to have to get to work if they truly believe in the causes they're supporting.

[Ammi]

... addressing racism and discrimination in sport, isn’t that what Kick it Out stand for and strive for..?..there are obviously some football fans who don’t have that belief, but to actually take actions in booing that support of equality is just difficult to find any type of defence for or understanding of... when there was this same type effect toxicity in the Labour Party with anti semitism accusations, there were no boos for anyone speaking out about it...and I don’t understand why this would be any different or thought of in any different way to that...it’s a discriminative mindset that is marring the sport and has no place ...any stand or knee taken against it should have nothing but applause.../......support...

[arista]

Many of that Crowd
would see it as a BLM Political Group gesture.


But Sure some could also be racist.

[Zizu]

Surely they can identify the culprits from yesterday with so few attending ?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Mystic Mock]

They’ve tolerated all kinds of nonsense/abuse from their fellow fans for over 20 years.. maybe it’s time they did something about the problem themselves..

Presumably the ‘bad uns’ all have family , friends or work colleagues who go to the games and never cause any problems


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Oh fans going to Football games should definitely be reporting racism when they see it happen a lot more often than they do imo.

It's just I'm never a fan of collective punishment, I've said it when we had people like Gary Neville and Alan Shearer encouraging this logic when one Blues fan attacked Jack Grealish a couple of seasons ago, and I'll defend Millwall and the innocent fans that didn't boo in this incident. Punish the individual/individuals in these incidents, don't punish everyone involved with the club.

[Brother Leon]

Taking a knee never started as. BLM thing. The idiots here are starting to sound like the American ones who tried twist it into disrespecting the flag.

[Zizu]

Oh fans going to Football games should definitely be reporting racism when they see it happen a lot more often than they do imo.



It's just I'm never a fan of collective punishment, I've said it when we had people like Gary Neville and Alan Shearer encouraging this logic when one Blues fan attacked Jack Grealish a couple of seasons ago, and I'll defend Millwall and the innocent fans that didn't boo in this incident. Punish the individual/individuals in these incidents, don't punish everyone involved with the club.



Well with so few attending the club can easily identify the culprits.. let’s see if they bother ..




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[Alf]

I join the Millwall fans in booing.

Booo!

I can show you hundreds of Black lives that don't matter to the Black Lives Matter cult. Which makes them a scam.

[Alf]

Isn't this Sasha Johnson lady the leader of Black Lives Matter UK?

I mean, Jeremy Corbyn was quite extreme, but this political party leader is something else.

This is who and what you're supporting. I'm sure you're very proud of yourselves?


1335621140857950213

[arista]

The Next Millwall Match
will also have the Players on their Knee.


Confirmed: GMBHD itv.



BLM UK are Troublemakers
they have nothing positive to give the UK

[Ammi]

can we just stick to one topic of discussion rather than turn this into another snowball of "grrrr!!! BLM!!!!" ire? especially when the OP is about a gesture displayed by Kick It Out and No Room For Racism, and originally comes from Colin Kaepernick - independently of BLM?

Because the whole conversation is just muddled and nobody who's criticising the kneel seems to know who tf they're even criticising. Unless it's all anti-racist organisations, in which case... they're probably racist :unsure:

No
BLM Political is Trouble.

...you just keep repeating the same thing, Arista...’BLM are troublemakers’ are your thoughts ...but BLM has no bearing on this whatsoever...to boo a gesture that represents anti racism is just unfathomable as to why that would be done...for those who don’t wish to join the gesture, then that’s their prerogative...but to actually take the action of booing is to boo equality and anti discrimination in sport...

[arista]

[B]Please Note Ammi
I am talking about BLM Political group.


Black Lives Matter has increased racial tension, 55% say in UK poll
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/nov/27/black-lives-matter-has-increased-racial-tension-55-say-in-uk-poll


[The secretive British branch of Black Lives Matter
lost me before some of its supporters
started attacking statues,
including the iconic figure of
Churchill in Parliament Square,
and attempting to burn the Union flag on the Cenotoph.
Even before its followers proclaimed
on the Web that the movement’s true aim was,
among other, things to “dismantle capitalism”
and “abolish the police”.
It was the very title Black Lives Matter that put me off.]


https://www.thearticle.com/my-problem-with-black-lives-matter

[Ammi]

...please note, Arista...taking the knee, which was being booed by some Millwall fans, has no attachment to the BLM movement at all...it was an expression of support which was established by Kick it Out, to kick racism out of sport...you’re persistently and determinedly diverting away from the anti-racist support that was being shown and that was being booed as something negative...

[arista]

...please note, Arista...taking the knee, which was being booed by some Millwall fans, has no attachment to the BLM movement at all...it was an expression of support which was established by Kick it Out, to kick racism out of sport...you’re persistently and determinedly diverting away from the anti-racist support that was being shown and that was being booed as something negative...


Its Owned
by BLM USA Political Group.
And BLM UK Political Group

So any that take a Knee
are viewed by millions
as being POLITICAL.

That is now a Fact

[Ammi]

Its Owned
by BLM USA Political Group.
And BLM UK Political Group

So any that take a Knee
are viewed by millions
as being POLITICAL.

That is now a Fact

...it’s a fact that it’s being incorrectly attached to BLM by you, Arista ...and no use of capital letters is going to change that ..but you’re obviously determined to continue that inaccuracy so I’ll leave you to your day...

[Ammi]

...just continuing with this as you are, completely avoids looking at a racism which obviously still exists in sport and seems content to avoid that it does...and this was an opportunity to discuss it...

[arista]

...it’s a fact that it’s being incorrectly attached to BLM by you, Arista ...and no use of capital letters is going to change that ..but you’re obviously determined to continue that inaccuracy so I’ll leave you to your day...


You are wrong
BLM Political UK are not wanted

[user104658]

I really don't think it's as simple as them all being racists to be honest, I think it has more to do with them feeling "pushed into politics" no matter how hard they try to run away from it. No of course the reality is that Jo one can run from politics, we're all swimming in a big ol' soup of it ever day, and many of us embrace that for the purposes of rousing debate and have done for many years... But your average pie-munching footie fan? He's been living (he believes) a peaceful life free from having to think about all this politics stuff for a large chunk of his life. So, now he's mad that he's being "FORCED" to think about it on a Saturday afternoon "as well as every weekday in the papers".

I get it to an extent, in some cases we're expecting people who have never had to put their brain in anything over 2nd gear to suddenly start contemplating and empathising with a whole bunch of abstract reasoning and critical thought. It probably literally hurts. Many simply won't be able to do it. They don't understand what they're seeing, they don't like how it feels, they know it isn't about them so they worry that it might somehow be against them - that's part of tribalism and that's why they're booing.

[user104658]

...it’s a fact that it’s being incorrectly attached to BLM by you, Arista ...and no use of capital letters is going to change that ..but you’re obviously determined to continue that inaccuracy so I’ll leave you to your day...I disagree Ammi, it has been incorrectly semantically attached to BLM in the general public consciousness and that is what it is; pointing out that the link is incorrect changes nothing. They are linked, because they are linked... Perception is all that matters there. So, Arista is right to point out that people having a problem with the knee-taking symbolism is linked to their problems with BLM in general.

[joeysteele]

...it’s a fact that it’s being incorrectly attached to BLM by you, Arista ...and no use of capital letters is going to change that ..but you’re obviously determined to continue that inaccuracy so I’ll leave you to your day...

You are right all through again Ammi.

I find it incredible there's any defence of those who booed, or any attempt to dress up their ignorant reaction to the players of BOTH teams.
Indeed wider, all teams, as across the leagues, this is done.

To publicly boo and be disrespectful the way these individuals CHOSE to.
Shows disrespect to their team and club.
They should be identified and not permitted entry again.

It wasn't just showing disrespect to the Millwall team that they brought about, it was to ALL the players of all teams who make this gesture every week.
To show their hope to help highlight and remove racism from football.

To boo that, well some may try to dress it up and call it for other reasons.
However it's more than likely a little more sinister than that I'm afraid.

[Ammi]

...I understand and realise why you disagree, TS...but I disagree with your disagreement...:laugh:..and I’m just going to leave the non agreement place we’re at, there...if every stance against racism is ‘oh BLM and we don’t wish to give time to that’...then no discussions will ever branch and expand out beyond that starting point to address or challenge racism in any aspect of our society...(...and specific mindsets appear to be more persistently reoccurring in some areas even in 2020, so it’s beneficial to discuss that, to try to look at minimising/...preventing etc...)...I mean, that was why Kick it Out was formed...’well, BLM...well, BLM....well, BLM..’...etc etc ...is the most deliberate disabling and preventing diversion of discussing specifics in racism which have been brought up by the topic...

[Mystic Mock]

Well with so few attending the club can easily identify the culprits.. let’s see if they bother ..




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Hopefully they'll identify the troublemakers and improve their image a little bit.

[Alf]

...please note, Arista...taking the knee, which was being booed by some Millwall fans, has no attachment to the BLM movement at all...it was an expression of support which was established by Kick it Out, to kick racism out of sport...you’re persistently and determinedly diverting away from the anti-racist support that was being shown and that was being booed as something negative...Rubbish!

Read the second paragraph of this statement and then tell us again whom they were taking a knee for.


1335585559562031106

[Alf]

...it’s a fact that it’s being incorrectly attached to BLM by you, Arista ...and no use of capital letters is going to change that ..but you’re obviously determined to continue that inaccuracy so I’ll leave you to your day...No! Arista is not in the wrong, you are!

[Alf]

1335872756215406592

[arista]

No! Arista is not in the wrong, you are!


Also just now on Times Radio DAB Live

Trevor Phillips agree's BLM Political
need to say want they want.
He is well experienced Race Relations

[Niamh.]

I don't see how taking the knee is classed as divisive politics. Although its linked to BLM, which people believe is a political movement, football have been trying to eradicate racism for years...they now have some form of symbolism to show how against racism in the game they are. Unless you are happy for black players to be called monkeys or worse, I don't see how you can boo what is nothing more than a symbolic gesture against racism

Totally agree with Annie here, whatever people's opinions are on the BLM movement, a symbol for anti racism in football is very much needed

[The Slim Reaper]

I really don't think it's as simple as them all being racists to be honest, I think it has more to do with them feeling "pushed into politics" no matter how hard they try to run away from it. No of course the reality is that Jo one can run from politics, we're all swimming in a big ol' soup of it ever day, and many of us embrace that for the purposes of rousing debate and have done for many years... But your average pie-munching footie fan? He's been living (he believes) a peaceful life free from having to think about all this politics stuff for a large chunk of his life. So, now he's mad that he's being "FORCED" to think about it on a Saturday afternoon "as well as every weekday in the papers".

I get it to an extent, in some cases we're expecting people who have never had to put their brain in anything over 2nd gear to suddenly start contemplating and empathising with a whole bunch of abstract reasoning and critical thought. It probably literally hurts. Many simply won't be able to do it. They don't understand what they're seeing, they don't like how it feels, they know it isn't about them so they worry that it might somehow be against them - that's part of tribalism and that's why they're booing.

And yet they instantly came out with the rehearsed excuses that BLM is an extremist, Marxist organisation, as though the fans were debating the finer points of Das Kapital in between mouthfuls of steak and kidney.

[Ammi]

'You're losing the plot': Piers Morgan blasts Laurence Fox again as he compares taking the knee and Nazi salutes...


Piers Morgan has slammed controversial actor Laurence Fox again, this time over suggesting footballers taking the knee was comparable to tolerating a Nazi salute.

Millwall supporters were criticised over the weekend for booing their own players as they took the knee ahead of playing Derby, an action to show solidarity against racism and in support of Black Lives Matter.

Read more: Laurence Fox scolded by The Pogues over Fairytale of New York edit complaint

The booing fans were condemned by many, including the football club, but Lewis actor Fox tweeted a provocative image of the 1938 England football team lining up for a Nazi salute captioned: “It’s happened before...Appeasement is the incorrect choice.”

Outraged Good Morning Britain host Morgan replied: “You’re comparing taking the knee as a protest against racial injustice to appeasing Nazis? SERIOUSLY??? Get a grip Laurence - you’re losing the plot.”


...full article...

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/youre-losing-plot-piers-morgan-blasts-laurence-fox-again-compares-taking-knee-nazi-salutes-101418861.html

[Niamh.]

Who would have thought Piers would be the one you'd side with :laugh:

[Ammi]

...the cynic in me has a theory, though...that Laurence Fox deliberately baits Piers because of the exposure he knows it will give him and keep him talked about etc ....and he’s trying to carve a career in politics...Piers will always respond, so giving him exposure.../...shockingly cynical, I know...as if...

[Ramsay]

Good guy Piers, always rated him

[Niamh.]

...the cynic in me has a theory, though...that Laurence Fox deliberately baits Piers because of the exposure he knows it will give him and keep him talked about etc ....and he’s trying to carve a career in politics...Piers will always respond, so giving him exposure.../...shockingly cynical, I know...as if...

You would wonder what Laurence's game is, he doesn't need to get famous by doing this **** like Katie Hopkins, he already had a half decent acting career which he's probably ruined now

[Ammi]

Good guy Piers, always rated him

...hush yer face, you...:laugh:..I always rated him as well...around a 1.5 to a 2.00...

[Ramsay]

...hush yer face, you...:laugh:..I always rated him as well...around a 1.5 to a 2.00...

:laugh::laugh:

[Ammi]

You would wonder what Laurence's game is, he doesn't need to get famous by doing this **** like Katie Hopkins, he already had a half decent acting career which he's probably ruined now

...that’s the thing though...in his career, you really have to be quite stand-out because it’s such a competitive thing with so many outstanding actors...and I wouldn’t really say that he’s ever been in that outstanding bit...so getting parts must be quite a hard thing...whereas being deliberately controversial, can make you stand out...like it has for Katie...so get you a career that would fulfill what you hoped for...(...for some specific characters, of which, Lawrence has shown himself to be one...)...he’s much more well known now...and to him, maybe it’s like an acting job of playing a villain and his performance gets a completely new exposure on social media and the like...:laugh:....

[Cherie]

It's Millwall, if any Club were going to do it they were, feel sorry for their 'normal' fans as they all get tarred with the same brush

[Niamh.]

...that’s the thing though...in his career, you really have to be quite stand-out because it’s such a competitive thing with so many outstanding actors...and I wouldn’t really say that he’s ever been in that outstanding bit...so getting parts must be quite a hard thing...whereas being deliberately controversial, can make you stand out...like it has for Katie...so get you a career that would fulfill what you hoped for...(...for some specific characters, of which, Lawrence has shown himself to be one...)...he’s much more well known now...and to him, maybe it’s like an acting job of playing a villain and his performance gets a completely new exposure on social media and the like...:laugh:....

Well yeah but the whole "cancel culture" type mentality I would have thought would make people think twice about hiring a guy with his opinions

[Ammi]

Well yeah but the whole "cancel culture" type mentality I would have thought would make people think twice about hiring a guy with his opinions

...if he was planning on pursuing an acting career, for sure....but (..I think...)...atm, his plan seems to be full time politics, setting up his politics party...he’s gone from musician/songwriter to acting ...so this was the obvious next career to try on for fit...:laugh:...

[Niamh.]

...if he was planning on pursuing an acting career, for sure....but (..I think...)...atm, his plan seems to be full time politics, setting up his politics party...he’s gone from musician/songwriter to acting ...so this was the obvious next career to try on for fit...:laugh:...

Obviously yes :laugh:

[Ammi]

Obviously yes :laugh:

...and obviously the role model would always be Katie Hopkins...that would go without saying...

[Niamh.]

...and obviously the role model would always be Katie Hopkins...that would go without saying...

Well of course, such a pillar of society, up there with Donald

[Ammi]

Well of course, such a pillar of society, up there with Donald

...sorry, did we have a Donald...I know we have a Joe but I’m not sure that I recall a Donald...I’ll go off to google that, see which Donald’s I can find...

[Niamh.]

...sorry, did we have a Donald...I know we have a Joe but I’m not sure that I recall a Donald...I’ll go off to google that, see which Donald’s I can find...

:laugh:

[arista]

Ammi
Today
Now on BBC2HD Politics Live

Asks is taking the Knee
"Political"

[The Slim Reaper]

Ammi
Today
Now on BBC2HD Politics Live

Asks is taking the Knee
"Political"

Only if equality is viewed as a political issue, which it isn't.

[Stu]

Football has also - of course - been frequently political in the best possible way. It's a melting pot of high athleticism, dodgy hairstyles, and cultural zeitgeist cathartic release. This isn't anything new. If you want to have a discussion about your beautiful game being destroyed, there's this other thing that's fertile ground for debate. BAR? CAR? Something like that .

Taking the vocal initiative to actually boo your own team for performing an overtly respectful gesture before the game even starts is the remit of yob contrarians, those on varying rungs of the racism spectrum and the kind of disenfranchised Carling breath babies who get that tiny dick energy when they see someone with better clothes than them on the news or talking about charity.

[The Slim Reaper]

https://resources.premierleague.com/photos/2019/11/11/8a814390-d639-4784-91b3-ed2338ee73b1/Tottenham-Hotspur-poppy-shirt.png?width=930&height=620

[Tom4784]

The whole 'keep politics out of the game' reminds me of gamers who fall to pieces whenever there's a gay character in a game, or there's spotlight on a non-white character or if there is a female character that doesn't have tits bigger than the northern hemisphere and isn't dressed in a string bikini. They always describe it as 'politics' which often means 'I want my game to be filled with straight white dudes and women who only exist to be ogled at.' They'll claim that politics have no place in their games while playing Metal Gear Solid, Call of Duty: Cold War, or pretty much any JRPG in which you have to overthrow a government, unearth corruption in religion or just simply fight god, sometimes all three. That kind of political content is a-okay just as long as there isn't a gay in sight!

People who say keep politics out of football are very that, they don't mind players wearing poppies or supporting causes but as soon as a player takes a knee against racism, these people lose their racist minds.

[Alf]

Nail on head!



1335939901985071104

[Tom4784]

Breaking news! Racists are tired of being called racist!

[Kizzy]

You are wrong
BLM Political UK are not wanted

Shock news ...uprising of movement for the rights of black people makes middle aged white men uncomfortable.

Now any demonstration of support for black rights is repackaged as fundamentalism.

White people and the media don't get to dictate the narrative on everything Arista.

[Stu]

Brendan O’Neill is the charmer who called Greta Thunberg a weirdo with a monotone voice, for those keeping the score at home. He's also defended overtly racist taunting at football matches as being displays of passion, and famously penned a now redacted Huffington Post article entitled "If You Were Abused By Jimmy Savile, Maybe You Should Keep It to Yourself".

[Tom4784]

Ah, a guy that attacks kids just trying to save the planet, finds racism acceptable and thinks abuse victims should be silent?

His words should obviously be taken to heart and trusted!

[arista]

Nail on head!



1335939901985071104



Yes good Point Brendon
on Australia's SkyNews

[arista]

Brendan O’Neill is the charmer who called Greta Thunberg a weirdo with a monotone voice, for those keeping the score at home. He's also defended overtly racist taunting at football matches as being displays of passion, and famously penned a now redacted Huffington Post article entitled "If You Were Abused By Jimmy Savile, Maybe You Should Keep It to Yourself".



Yes Stu
he does not like her.

Also Trump hates her.

[arista]

Shock news ...uprising of movement for the rights of black people makes middle aged white men uncomfortable.

Now any demonstration of support for black rights is repackaged as fundamentalism.

White people and the media don't get to dictate the narrative on everything Arista.


Yes BLM UK are now going to make a Political Party


Ref: Politics Live BBC2HD

[Niamh.]

Yes Stu
he does not like her.

Also Trump hates her.

Imagine hating a teenage girl when you're the President of the USA :laugh:

[The Slim Reaper]

Imagine hating a teenage girl when you're the President of the USA :laugh:

Imagine being a grown ass man, defending and excusing the president hating a teenage girl.

[Shaun]

Nail on head!



1335939901985071104

Again, what does any of this have to do with taking the knee? I'm still yet to see any argument that the gesture is provocative, or kicking the hornets' nest.

The number of incidents involving fans (and indeed players, John Terry :eyes: Luis Suarez :eyes:) is astronomical, and clearly more needs to be done before we stamp racism out in football culture. Is taking the knee before the game really that jarring to you, arista/Alf?

You can argue about how unnecessary and ineffective it is, and complain that it's virtue-signalling or whatever, but if it gets conversations started and means that racists are banned from attending grounds and playing games, then it's a win/win.

To even go around thinking that the FA and Premier League want to directly influence the funding that police in the UK receive, or whatever other anti-BLM rhetoric you've picked up from Ben Shapiro and his scaremongering posse, is just insane.

[Kizzy]

Yes Stu
he does not like her.

Also Trump hates her.

Have you ever stopped to question why?

Because she has the power to cut through a solid block of spin like a hot knife through butter.

A bit like the act of taking a knee, it is not a statement that can be politicised... there are no words, it is just a action that shows awareness, the need for equality and justice.

Isn't that what we all want?

[arista]

Have you ever stopped to question why?

Because she has the power to cut through a solid block of spin like a hot knife through butter.

A bit like the act of taking a knee, it is not a statement that can be politicised... there are no words, it is just a action that shows awareness, the need for equality and justice.

Isn't that what we all want?


I do not need that Young Lady
to tell me anything.

All the Data is already around us
Via SkyNewsHD for example.

[jet]

Interesting article which addresses the divisive overuse of the word 'racist'.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/nov/07/time-to-retire-the-word-racist

It's time to put a moratorium on the word 'racist'
Reniqua Allen


In the late nineties, conservative John Bunzel, a former member of the US Commission on Civil Rights, wrote that President Clinton's Advisory Board on Race should call for an end of the "corrupted usage" of the word "racist" especially when used as an "accusation" or "smear word" because:

[It] breeds bitterness and polarization, not a spirit of pragmatic reasonableness in confronting our difficult problems.

While I agree with little else that he said in that article, 15 years later, the sentiment is hitting home. It's time to put a moratorium on the word "racist".
It's not that the word racist – meaning a belief that one's race is superior to another – doesn't adequately define the feelings of certain people in the world. Racial prejudice and racism, is certainly alive and often thought to be rising in America and Europe. But I refuse to believe the word "racist" is an adequate characterization of everyone and everything that it has been attributed to as of late.

n the past week alone the word "racist" has been used in reference to Halloween costumes, gun owners, Russian soccer fans, the upscale store Barney's, alleged text messages sent by an NFL player to his colleague, sunglasses, and reportedly angry fans after YouTube's first music awards. Looking back over the past few years, the word has described teens that called President Obama the "N word" online, the President himself, people mad at the new Miss America, Lena Dunham's show Girls, Lena Dunham herself, Jamie Foxx on Saturday Night Live, dogs, and folks that like white turkey meat over dark.
Were many of these stories reprehensible? Yes. Others were borderline ridiculous – dogs, seriously? But there's some kind of racial line that we are starting to blur and I'm less convinced that every racial misstep is the action of a "racist."

Sure, the Hollywood actress absolutely deserved to be called on her ill-advised blackface Halloween costume, the NFL player should have faced repercussions for his alleged use of racial slurs and the lack of diversity on Girls is a valid concern. But it doesn't mean that all of these folk should be cast off as "bad guys" and lumped in with the camp of people that thinks their sole race is superior.

Let me make it clear, I am not, and will not, defend any of these people and their actions. Many reveal very deep rooted bigotry, prejudice and problematic ideas about racial and ethnic groups; but the constant use of such incendiary and dramatic language often takes us away from the root of the problem, and takes us away from the fight for racial justice. I'm not advocating we take the racist moniker from those that truly deserve it, like Adolf Hitler and white supremacist David Duke. But the word racist has gone from being used to describe the harsh discrimination of the Jews, to a sort of catch all phrase for anything that is racially negative, stereotypical or just deviates from what we have deemed to be the "politically correct " racial transcript.

Joe Feagin a sociologist at the University of Florida says that today when we talk about race, we aren't really talking about "racism", that our conversations are "racist light" because we're ultimately alluding to a deficient character trait. He says:
Whites don't want to be called racist because it threatens our virtue. Since the 1950s whites learned that it's not a good thing. They know now that being called a racist is now connected with not being virtuous…it's just saying you're a nasty person.
"A lot of times when we talk about racism, we're talking about racial prejudice", says Lecia Brooks, a director at the Southern Poverty Law Center. She adds, "folks don't have the language to talk about racism. Language is important". Jennifer Roth-Gordon, a linguist at Arizona State agrees that the idea that one is a "racist" today is associated with an ignorance. But she says the word means a little more than just a simple prejudice. "Prejudice is a bias. Racism is a bias with prejudice and is institutional. Prejudice is a far more general term since there are people of color who are biased."

Roth-Gordon says a particular problem with the word is that it's often attributed to individual actions rather than a systematic deficiency. "Talking about individual racists or racism, lets us whites off the hook. We can go around and say 'tsk tsk', I would never do that." She says we have to stop focusing on the accusation and instead focus on the action. She points to video by hip-hop commentator, Jay Smooth (watch it here), on how to tell someone they sound racist. In it, he says you have to separate between "what they did" and "what they are", while keeping the conversation on what they said. It's an interesting strategy and one that many in the media and blogosphere (including myself) should take note of.

Still, I think we would all benefit from a moratorium on the word. Maybe if we stop the superfluous use of the "R" word we can all pause for a minute and admit to certain biases and prejudices without feeling like we're the lowest of the low and begin to work towards achieving real racial justice.
Paula Deen's very public shaming this summer is a prime example of jumping on the liberal feel-good bandwagon, without saying much about race. I will admit, it was refreshing to have a multiracial coalition angered by Deen's behavior; and it sparked an interesting debate. But have those same people, outraged at Deen's use of the N word, started calling more people with "black-sounding" names as much as whites when their company has a job open? Have they begun to pay Hispanic workers as much as everyone else? Have they clutched their purses any less when a black man walks down the street towards them?
Walmart, one of the companies that said they were dropping Deen's products, is the largest employer of blacks and Hispanics in America. Yet according to the union-sponsored Making Change at Walmart, a full time Walmart associate earns less than 70% of the federal poverty line for a family of four. People of color disproportionately make up their low wage jobs, with the average hourly associate making about $8.81 an hour, well below the amount experts say the average american family needs to live.
But no one is calling any of these folk racist.
Today the word racist, and the shaming that goes along with it, has turned too political. It is also too much about individual prejudice, when in reality, racial justice is something that we all should be fighting for together.
It's fine to reproach individuals like Paula Deen or point out racially charged tweets, but I wish people would act as equally as outraged over New York's Stop and Frisk policies, or the dismantling of the Voter Rights Act, or opposition to comprehensive immigration reform. Being a "racist" certainly can start with bias and ignorance, but it's more than just using the "N word", "twerking" or dressing up in a distasteful costume. It's time we all begin to understand that.

[Beso]

Breaking news! Racists are tired of being called racist!

No...true and honest fans are fed up being labelled the same as a stupid minority..like you did..

Which incidently is just like people saying all blacks eat takeaway chicken and stuff like that...

[Glenn.]

You have to take a hard look at yourself if you oppose this in any way.

[arista]

You have to take a hard look at yourself if you oppose this in any way.


It is a Political Move.

Discussed today on BBC2HD Politics Live

[Crimson Dynamo]

K931A1f_YQM

[Shaun]

Chairpersons, Management, staff and players come and go from football clubs, but the fans are there forever, because it's their club, in their community.

They pay to watch a game of football, they dont pay to watch activists push their agendas. Do it on their own time, not on the time of paying spectators at their local football club.

I hate to break it to you but fans do not own the club. You don't have a god-given right to dictate what your club deems acceptable just because your dad forced you to support them from the time you were in nappies. What's more, you don't represent all football fans either, so to try and speak for everyone is just daft.

[Marsh.]

Interesting article which addresses the divisive overuse of the word 'racist'.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/nov/07/time-to-retire-the-word-racist

It's time to put a moratorium on the word 'racist'
Reniqua Allen


In the late nineties, conservative John Bunzel, a former member of the US Commission on Civil Rights, wrote that President Clinton's Advisory Board on Race should call for an end of the "corrupted usage" of the word "racist" especially when used as an "accusation" or "smear word" because:

[It] breeds bitterness and polarization, not a spirit of pragmatic reasonableness in confronting our difficult problems.

While I agree with little else that he said in that article, 15 years later, the sentiment is hitting home. It's time to put a moratorium on the word "racist".
It's not that the word racist – meaning a belief that one's race is superior to another – doesn't adequately define the feelings of certain people in the world. Racial prejudice and racism, is certainly alive and often thought to be rising in America and Europe. But I refuse to believe the word "racist" is an adequate characterization of everyone and everything that it has been attributed to as of late.

n the past week alone the word "racist" has been used in reference to Halloween costumes, gun owners, Russian soccer fans, the upscale store Barney's, alleged text messages sent by an NFL player to his colleague, sunglasses, and reportedly angry fans after YouTube's first music awards. Looking back over the past few years, the word has described teens that called President Obama the "N word" online, the President himself, people mad at the new Miss America, Lena Dunham's show Girls, Lena Dunham herself, Jamie Foxx on Saturday Night Live, dogs, and folks that like white turkey meat over dark.
Were many of these stories reprehensible? Yes. Others were borderline ridiculous – dogs, seriously? But there's some kind of racial line that we are starting to blur and I'm less convinced that every racial misstep is the action of a "racist."

Sure, the Hollywood actress absolutely deserved to be called on her ill-advised blackface Halloween costume, the NFL player should have faced repercussions for his alleged use of racial slurs and the lack of diversity on Girls is a valid concern. But it doesn't mean that all of these folk should be cast off as "bad guys" and lumped in with the camp of people that thinks their sole race is superior.

Let me make it clear, I am not, and will not, defend any of these people and their actions. Many reveal very deep rooted bigotry, prejudice and problematic ideas about racial and ethnic groups; but the constant use of such incendiary and dramatic language often takes us away from the root of the problem, and takes us away from the fight for racial justice. I'm not advocating we take the racist moniker from those that truly deserve it, like Adolf Hitler and white supremacist David Duke. But the word racist has gone from being used to describe the harsh discrimination of the Jews, to a sort of catch all phrase for anything that is racially negative, stereotypical or just deviates from what we have deemed to be the "politically correct " racial transcript.

Joe Feagin a sociologist at the University of Florida says that today when we talk about race, we aren't really talking about "racism", that our conversations are "racist light" because we're ultimately alluding to a deficient character trait. He says:
Whites don't want to be called racist because it threatens our virtue. Since the 1950s whites learned that it's not a good thing. They know now that being called a racist is now connected with not being virtuous…it's just saying you're a nasty person.
"A lot of times when we talk about racism, we're talking about racial prejudice", says Lecia Brooks, a director at the Southern Poverty Law Center. She adds, "folks don't have the language to talk about racism. Language is important". Jennifer Roth-Gordon, a linguist at Arizona State agrees that the idea that one is a "racist" today is associated with an ignorance. But she says the word means a little more than just a simple prejudice. "Prejudice is a bias. Racism is a bias with prejudice and is institutional. Prejudice is a far more general term since there are people of color who are biased."

Roth-Gordon says a particular problem with the word is that it's often attributed to individual actions rather than a systematic deficiency. "Talking about individual racists or racism, lets us whites off the hook. We can go around and say 'tsk tsk', I would never do that." She says we have to stop focusing on the accusation and instead focus on the action. She points to video by hip-hop commentator, Jay Smooth (watch it here), on how to tell someone they sound racist. In it, he says you have to separate between "what they did" and "what they are", while keeping the conversation on what they said. It's an interesting strategy and one that many in the media and blogosphere (including myself) should take note of.

Still, I think we would all benefit from a moratorium on the word. Maybe if we stop the superfluous use of the "R" word we can all pause for a minute and admit to certain biases and prejudices without feeling like we're the lowest of the low and begin to work towards achieving real racial justice.
Paula Deen's very public shaming this summer is a prime example of jumping on the liberal feel-good bandwagon, without saying much about race. I will admit, it was refreshing to have a multiracial coalition angered by Deen's behavior; and it sparked an interesting debate. But have those same people, outraged at Deen's use of the N word, started calling more people with "black-sounding" names as much as whites when their company has a job open? Have they begun to pay Hispanic workers as much as everyone else? Have they clutched their purses any less when a black man walks down the street towards them?
Walmart, one of the companies that said they were dropping Deen's products, is the largest employer of blacks and Hispanics in America. Yet according to the union-sponsored Making Change at Walmart, a full time Walmart associate earns less than 70% of the federal poverty line for a family of four. People of color disproportionately make up their low wage jobs, with the average hourly associate making about $8.81 an hour, well below the amount experts say the average american family needs to live.
But no one is calling any of these folk racist.
Today the word racist, and the shaming that goes along with it, has turned too political. It is also too much about individual prejudice, when in reality, racial justice is something that we all should be fighting for together.
It's fine to reproach individuals like Paula Deen or point out racially charged tweets, but I wish people would act as equally as outraged over New York's Stop and Frisk policies, or the dismantling of the Voter Rights Act, or opposition to comprehensive immigration reform. Being a "racist" certainly can start with bias and ignorance, but it's more than just using the "N word", "twerking" or dressing up in a distasteful costume. It's time we all begin to understand that.

It takes a... special kind of thought process to get irate over the word racist rather than, you know, racist football fans.

[Mystic Mock]

Brendan O’Neill is the charmer who called Greta Thunberg a weirdo with a monotone voice, for those keeping the score at home. He's also defended overtly racist taunting at football matches as being displays of passion, and famously penned a now redacted Huffington Post article entitled "If You Were Abused By Jimmy Savile, Maybe You Should Keep It to Yourself".

The guy sounds like a charmer.:hehe:

[Tom4784]

No...true and honest fans are fed up being labelled the same as a stupid minority..like you did..

Which incidently is just like people saying all blacks eat takeaway chicken and stuff like that...

Wait..... Are you trying to make out that calling someone out on their racism is akin to racism itself?

_n5E7feJHw0

It's grim how some people are desperate to be oppressed.

[Tom4784]

Also if you get more offended over someone being accused of racism rather than the racism itself, you need to take a good look at yourself because that offense is projected. If you feel offended by someone calling a bunch of louts racist for booing players kneeling for racial inequality, that's because you'd most likely be a part of the booing mob.

[Kizzy]

I do not need that Young Lady
to tell me anything.

All the Data is already around us
Via SkyNewsHD for example.

The media only parrot what they are told to Arista, they are not environmentalists are they?

[Beso]

Wait..... Are you trying to make out that calling someone out on their racism is akin to racism itself?

_n5E7feJHw0

It's grim how some people are desperate to be oppressed.

You described all millwall fans being the same...that's the way a racist would think about different people.. they would put them all in the same bracket..

[Beso]

Also if you get more offended over someone being accused of racism rather than the racism itself, you need to take a good look at yourself because that offense is projected. If you feel offended by someone calling a bunch of louts racist for booing players kneeling for racial inequality, that's because you'd most likely be a part of the booing mob.

You called out all millwall fans..I pointed out I had three good friends at that match and none of them booed..yet you still couldnt see past the gammon..

[joeysteele]

I hope Millwall or no other club however will allow these ignorant individuals who booed any kind of satisfaction.

By giving in to their ignorance.
That would be really unfortunate.

[Dogeatdog]

Millwall and QPR players to stand arm-in-arm in 'show of solidarity' before Tuesday's match

Millwall players will not take a knee before Tuesday's Championship fixture against QPR but will stand arm-in-arm in a "show of solidarity for football's fight against discrimination".

It comes after some Millwall fans booed the players taking a knee before Saturday's defeat by Derby at The Den.

Players of both teams will collectively hold up an anti-racism banner.

Millwall's regular shirt sponsor will be replaced with the logo of anti-discrimination body Kick It Out.

In a statement, Millwall said: "Millwall believe that this gesture, which the club hopes to repeat with other visiting teams in the coming weeks and months, will help to unify people throughout society in the battle to root out all forms of discrimination.

"Millwall have a zero-tolerance policy against racial and all other forms of discrimination and want to again make clear to anybody who holds such views that you are not welcome at this football club. Millwall's stance, as always, is that anybody found guilty of racial abuse is banned for life."

The decision came after a meeting on Monday between both clubs, Kick It Out, Show Racism The Red Card, the Professional Footballers' Association (PFA), the Football Association (FA) and the English Football League (EFL).

Some QPR players will take the knee before Tuesday's game at The Den, despite having stopped the gesture earlier this season after director of football Les Ferdinand said its impact had "been diluted".

Players, officials and staff at Premier League and EFL games have been taking a knee pre-match since football restarted in June in order to show their support for the Black Lives Matter movement for racial equality.

The Den was able to host 2,000 home fans for the first time this season after the second national lockdown was lifted but the return of spectators was overshadowed by the booing, with which Millwall said they were "dismayed and saddened".

The Millwall Supporters' Club said the booing was not motivated by racism, but instead in opposition to the political views held by the Black Lives Matter organisation.

The FA has confirmed it is investigating the incident at Millwall, and a similar one at Colchester United's League Two game against Grimsby Town .

If it finds that the actions were discriminatory, the clubs could face fines.

Speaking on BBC Radio 5 Live's Monday Night Club, former England defender Micah Richards said booing is "not acceptable".

"Millwall fans, from their point of view, this whole movement is becoming political. They're saying they don't think the players at their club should want to kneel because of what Black Lives Matter represents in their mind," he said.

"If they're booing that, it's not acceptable, but it's free speech and that is their opinion, but I think people are taking Black Lives Matter in a different context and changing the actual narrative of what it's all about.

"When the players are taking the knee they are not saying black lives matter and they are any better than white lives, they are trying to say it's a stand for equality and unity and that is why they are taking the knee."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/55223935

[arista]

The media only parrot what they are told to Arista, they are not environmentalists are they?


Reports From Ch4HDnews
and SkyNewsHD and BBCnewsHD

Have all got Environmentalist Reporters
doing great top reports.

You learn faster
on a Live report.

[Kizzy]

Reports From Ch4HDnews
and SkyNewsHD and BBCnewsHD

Have all got Environmentalist Reporters
doing great top reports.

You learn faster
on a Live report.
Name an environmentalist reporter...

[Stu]

J3LOT9H4TpI

https://i.ibb.co/6sdVMsF/IMG-20201208-212157.jpg

[Kizzy]

Reports From Ch4HDnews
and SkyNewsHD and BBCnewsHD

Have all got Environmentalist Reporters
doing great top reports.

You learn faster
on a Live report.
Thank you for the PM... He is a journalist though NOT an environmentalist

[Cherie]

Tbf to the Millwallians they applauded the two teams linked holding a Kick it Out banner last night

[The Slim Reaper]

1336040854792900609

[Cherie]

1336040854792900609

:joker:

[Kizzy]

My daughter worked at Elland road (Leeds united) for a while and she said the Millwall fans were the worst of them all.

Yes...worse than Leeds fans too so they must have been shocking!

[Crimson Dynamo]

JHB schooling a poorly briefed woke chap on this subject.

_P3QlOzkUyk

[Beso]

Just seen a disgusting clip of an elderly female millwall fan getting her grandson to sing racist songs

[Stu]

Ridiculous. It's just working class release. There's no racism in football, and thus no need for this hours long pre match protest which regularly interferes with the play of the ball.

[Kizzy]

JHB schooling a poorly briefed woke chap on this subject.

_P3QlOzkUyk

Her personal opinion that the players taking the knee is political is counter to the fact that, as Jake stated the players expressesed it was not political in a statement released prior to the match.

What JHB thinks is or isn't appropriate does not usurp the right of the players to express their intent.

And should they wish to make political statements in the future that is their prerogative. What JHB or anyone feels about it is irrelevant.

[The Slim Reaper]

The wife of one of the booing fans phones in to bemoan the fact her husband was labelled as a racist, before the mask slips and she goes on to talk about replacement grievance :laugh:

1338460360114905089

[Kizzy]

Why did he not go on and explain why he booed? ...

My husband isn't racist ..but ...:/