France has a new bill Article24 that says you can not Film the Police

[arista]

This is to stop Harassment.



Paris is having a Demonstration
against this.
Police walk with them
and stop any damage

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-55135995


Live Report just on TRTworldHD

[Niamh.]

Not sure where I stand on this, I don't think you should be able to stop people filming them but I do think it should be illegal to post it on line. Footage should only be used as evidence of being mistreated, in the proper channels

[arista]

Not sure where I stand on this, I don't think you should be able to stop people filming them but I do think it should be illegal to post it on line. Footage should only be used as evidence of being mistreated, in the proper channels



Yes but they are Filming Police
Re-Editing it.


Its all getting dangerous.

[Vicky.]

Not sure where I stand on this, I don't think you should be able to stop people filming them but I do think it should be illegal to post it on line. Footage should only be used as evidence of being mistreated, in the proper channels
Same.
Was trying to find a way to word this.

[UserSince2005]

Unconstitutional, this won’t be enforced

[Kizzy]

Do their police wear body cams? I'm not sure how I feel about this, as we have seen sometimes it's necessary to record conduct for reasons of accountability.
Does that mean that if there was a case of unreasonable force clear and unedited footage of that by the public could not be used?

[user104658]

Not sure where I stand on this, I don't think you should be able to stop people filming them but I do think it should be illegal to post it on line. Footage should only be used as evidence of being mistreated, in the proper channelsI agree with that Neem. I think it should be fine to film it to provide evidence to their superiors/the authorities/a lawyer but it should be illegal to upload identifying footage online. I don't think it should be flat out illegal to post negative footage of the authorities but it should be required that faces/identifying features are blurred and no identifying info like names or badge numbers are given.

Also, I think police body cam footage should always be taken and freely available to the people involved and any legal representation, and if for some reason the camera "wasn't working" or the footage "went missing", the default should be to believe anyone who is saying there was poor conduct.

[Nicky91]

inbefore someone accidentally films the police driving into someone's street, while someone is filming for a special occasion

:skull:

hypothetically speaking, since this new bill states you can't film the police, this is one huge mess waiting to happen

[Alf]

Does the bill say that the Police can not film the citizens? If not, then the citizens should not comply with this new bill.

[arista]

[Article 24 of France’s new security bill
would make it a criminal offence for anyone
to disseminate images
that might “harm the physical or mental integrity” of police officers.
People found guilty could be punished
by a year in prison or a fine of up to €45,000.
Critics of the bill say it threatens to make
it more difficult for journalists and others
to report on police brutality or other infractions,
with journalists’ groups, human rights activists
and unions organising the protests in French cities.]


This is from Nov,
last year.
https://www.france24.com/en/france/20201121-new-french-law-banning-images-of-police-sparks-civil-rights-concerns-protests

[Alf]

[Article 24 of France’s new security bill
would make it a criminal offence for anyone
to disseminate images
that might “harm the physical or mental integrity” of police officers.
People found guilty could be punished
by a year in prison or a fine of up to €45,000.
Critics of the bill say it threatens to make
it more difficult for journalists and others
to report on police brutality or other infractions,
with journalists’ groups, human rights activists
and unions organising the protests in French cities.]


This is from Nov,
last year.
https://www.france24.com/en/france/20201121-new-french-law-banning-images-of-police-sparks-civil-rights-concerns-protestsPolice officers are servents of the public, they're there to serve the public. They shouldn't be given these authoritan powers over the public, the people are in charge, not Politicians or the Police, they work for the people.

[Alf]

My advice to all French citizens is to get your cameras out and point them at the Police. That will let them know who's in charge.

[Cherie]

Not sure where I stand on this, I don't think you should be able to stop people filming them but I do think it should be illegal to post it on line. Footage should only be used as evidence of being mistreated, in the proper channels

.

[Alf]

Why doesn't everyone compromise and agree to get rid of all cameras, including ones on phones, cctv ect?

[arista]

Why doesn't everyone compromise and agree to get rid of all cameras, including ones on phones, cctv ect?


CCTV
can save lives

Cameras on every Cop are needed


France putting in a Bill to stop any filming them
is their right.

[Alf]

CCTV
can save lives

Cameras on every Cop are needed


France putting in a Bill to stop any filming them
is their right.So what your saying is, some laws are only for the people and joining the Police force gives you an exemption from these laws?

I'm not on board with that. Laws should be the same for everybody.

[arista]

So what your saying is, some laws are only for the people and joining the Police force gives you an exemption from these laws?

I'm not on board with that. Laws should be the same for everybody.



France is Nothing like the UK.
They have a Terrible Terrorism problem

[Alf]

France is Nothing like the UK.
They have a Terrible Terrorism problemThen deal with the terrorism problem, don't slap authoritarian rules on the general public.

[arista]

Then deal with the terrorism problem, don't slap authoritarian rules on the general public.



The Public
are editing Police Videos they record

That is too dangerous.

[Captain.Remy]

I'm French and I don't know how I feel about it since I have other things to worry about with the whole pandemic and I'm not fully invested in the topic.

On one hand, I completely understand the policemen that face so many threats and violence on daily basis. The "Yellow vests" movement took things to another level with posting their identities online etc Death/Rape threats are made, some policemen and their families were attacked in their home.

On the other hand, I'm usually someone who says that you shouldn't be scared of something to be filmed/seen if you don't do anything wrong. Some policemen can see their behaviours and might think twice before using violence.
And we all know the police (around the world) is sometimes not blameless.

Cameras go both ways: if the protesters are for filming the police, then the police should do the same (ie the body cam debate that has been going on for quite some time too) because it can help with violence issues in both cases.

So basically, I'm for filming the police BUT faces need to be blurred when posted online (obviously not blurred if the videos are used as proofs in law cases). However, the police unions already said that nobody would respect that, hence their request to not be filmed at all. There is also the issue of editing videos to make a situation look like something it's not. It's a tough one tbh :shrug:

[arista]

[However, the police unions already said that nobody
would respect that, hence their request to not be filmed at all.]



Yes they must bring this Bill in.
to save the lives of the French Police.

[Captain.Remy]

Also, I support Macron but wtf is he doing with passing this bill in the middle of a pandemic thinking nobody would catch him doing it.
This is France, riots can start from the littlest thing, what was he thinking :joker:
And we have bigger fish to fry ie terrorism, the retirement reform etc I don't think it was the right time to go ahead with such law that needs full explanation on both ends in a serious framework.

[user104658]

[Article 24 of France’s new security bill
would make it a criminal offence for anyone
to disseminate images
that might “harm the physical or mental integrity” of police officers.
People found guilty could be punished
by a year in prison or a fine of up to €45,000.
Critics of the bill say it threatens to make
it more difficult for journalists and others
to report on police brutality or other infractions,
with journalists’ groups, human rights activists
and unions organising the protests in French cities.]


This is from Nov,
last year.
https://www.france24.com/en/france/20201121-new-french-law-banning-images-of-police-sparks-civil-rights-concerns-protestsSo it doesn't say they can't film them, it says they can't disseminate the footage (e.g. send it to friends or post it onto social media).

I dont have a massive issue with that to be honest, so long as people can still take footage to use as supporting evidence for themselves, to use in making a complaint or to show to lawyers/courts if taking legal action.

I can't think of any particularly good reasons to show unedited, identifying footage on social media.

I do still think it should be OK to show footage publicly so long as identities are obscured - or to give footage to the media on the understanding that they will do that.

[arista]

So it doesn't say they can't film them, it says they can't disseminate the footage (e.g. send it to friends or post it onto social media).

I dont have a massive issue with that to be honest, so long as people can still take footage to use as supporting evidence for themselves, to use in making a complaint or to show to lawyers/courts if taking legal action.

I can't think of any particularly good reasons to show unedited, identifying footage on social media.

I do still think it should be OK to show footage publicly so long as identities are obscured - or to give footage to the media on the understanding that they will do that.


Yes its an Old Link One from last year.


It was Live on TRTworldHD today


A BBC link
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-55135995


[There were huge protests across France on Saturday against Article 24
of the bill, which aims to regulate how people share film or photos of police.
There are fears the new law could stop people exposing police brutality.]

[Alf]

Remember when the Police were the only ones with the cameras and made TV shows like "Police, camera, action" to show everybody what criminals the general public are. Now the tables have turned since everyone has a camera on their phone. And now they don't like it.

[arista]

Remember when the Police were the only ones with the cameras and made TV shows like "Police, camera, action" to show everybody what criminals the general public are. Now the tables have turned since everyone has a camera on their phone. And now they don't like it.


Yes but France is having bigger problems
hence, the Article24 update, soon.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-55135995


[In short, the bill would ban the publication of any photo
or footage identifying the police in
any way that is considered malicious. ]
https://www.fr24news.com/a/2020/12/france-agrees-to-completely-rewrite-controversial-article-24-of-global-security-bill.html

[Ammi]

...it’s a bit confusing, so police are allowed to be filmed and even posted online etc...but not in any way which would be deemed inciting violence against them...?...there is a vid from a few months ago online of French police ‘beating’ someone inside their home or their workplace, I’m not sure which...the attack on the guy was quite prolonged and pretty damning and apparently because he’d gone out without a mask on..?..I don’t know what the truth of the story is or whether this new Bill and being pushed through has any bearing on that...or indeed whether that was more of an isolated incident or something that is more of a growing concern ...

[arista]

...it’s a bit confusing, so police are allowed to be filmed and even posted online etc...but not in any way which would be deemed inciting violence against them...?...there is a vid from a few months ago online of French police ‘beating’ someone inside their home or their workplace, I’m not sure which...the attack on the guy was quite prolonged and pretty damning and apparently because he’d gone out without a mask on..?..I don’t know what the truth of the story is or whether this new Bill and being pushed through has any bearing on that...or indeed whether that was more of an isolated incident or something that is more of a growing concern ...


Yes that story on the BBC link
is true, sadly
but this New Bill is nothing to do with that.



It is not Confusing
the new Law will tell you never to Film Police.

France is nothing like us.

[Ammi]

Yes that story on the BBC link
is true, sadly
but this New Bill is nothing to do with that.



It is not Confusing
the new Law will tell you never to Film Police.

France is nothing like us.

...that’s not clear, though...it does have some confusion because it’s being stated that people can film and even post images...but not in a way that to incite negativity/hostility toward the police...

[arista]

...that’s not clear, though...it does have some confusion because it’s being stated that people can film and even post images...but not in a way that to incite negativity/hostility toward the police...


Yes they had many cases of
negativity/hostility.



The Bill is to go through their Parliament
so until then, we do not know how it will go.

[Ammi]

...hence it’s confusing/not entirely clear atm...

[arista]

...hence it’s confusing/not entirely clear atm...


It will all be clear
after they vote on it.