Is the government doing a good job with its vaccination program?

[Beso]

.

[Kate!]

Yes I think so.

[Beso]

Yes I think so.

I've added a poll.

[GoldHeart]

Come back to me when we're half way through the year , hopefully things will get better.

[arista]

Yes So far
even Labour agree.

[Vanessa]

Brilliant.

[Scarlett.]

The NHS is doing a great job.

[Cherie]

It’s the one good thing they have done so far

[Cherie]

The NHS is doing a great job.

They have the vaccine to administer because of the government actually forward thinking for a change so one wouldn’t work without the other

[Beso]

Come back to me when we're half way through the year , hopefully things will get better.

The poll is only open for 5 days :bawling:

[Cherie]

The poll is only open for 5 days :bawling:

:joker:

[Smithy]

We’ll wait and see, it’s all well and good giving however many people their first dose, but if they **** up and miss giving people the second dose it’s all for nothing

[Cherie]

We’ll wait and see, it’s all well and good giving however many people their first dose, but if they **** up and miss giving people the second dose it’s all for nothing

People are already booked in for second doses, so unless there is a massive supply failure or people don't turn up I can't see how it can go wrong?

[Shaun]

With vaccination? Yes. That's one consolation I suppose.

[Smithy]

People are already booked in for second doses, so unless there is a massive supply failure or people don't turn up I can't see how it can go wrong?

Hmmmm well, I suppose I haven’t heard the words “massive failure” and “this government” in a sentence together during this pandemic, so yeah you’re right I’m sure it’ll be fine

[bots]

i've been pleasantly surprised at how well it has gone. Credit where it's due to all those involved.

[joeysteele]

Yes they are.
Which I'm happy is the case so too.
This, they've got right.

[DouglasS]

The U.K. government are world leading with their vaccine rollout. Astonishing work, Boris and his government should be rewarded for acting so diligently and being incredibly well prepared.

Other countries around the world are in awe at how well we have done and some are actually bitter about it.

[Tom4784]

They do seem to be picking up speed with vaccinations at least, but the government aside from the furlough scheme has **** the bed for the most part when dealing with this pandemic.

Given we've had access to the vaccine since December, it's grim it's taken this long to really get a lot of people vaccinated. They should have been ready to kick vaccinations into high gear from when we first got them.

[Crimson Dynamo]

seems to be a bit slow in Scotland

[Crimson Dynamo]

my mum hasnt even had a letter

[DouglasS]

They do seem to be picking up speed with vaccinations at least, but the government aside from the furlough scheme has **** the bed for the most part when dealing with this pandemic.

Given we've had access to the vaccine since December, it's grim it's taken this long to really get a lot of people vaccinated. They should have been ready to kick vaccinations into high gear from when we first got them.

You do realise we are the second fastest country in the world per population? There are 195 countries. I really don’t think we could have been any faster or done any better...

We pre ordered the first and third approved vaccines (out of about 30 at stage 3) straight away and have logistically managed to vaccine as many people as possible per the supply demands.

I feel it’s a bit pedantic to try and say we should have been faster or vaccinate more people.. I mean can you look at this chart and say that with a straight face... really.. no really? Don’t let any biases show


https://i.ibb.co/2nFTYjd/0-B28-BF1-D-8-DF3-421-B-ABEB-EE1203-AB7-EAF.jpg

[user104658]

Speed of roll out yes. 2nd dose shenanigans, not so great.

[Withano]

Yeh. Their poor leadership caused 100k deaths, but their reaction to the vaccine should hopefully stop killing the next 100k

[Cherie]

A brand new vaccination programme cannot be kicked off with speed, it’s has to be rolled out slowly in the first weeks to catch any issues with mass roll out, imagine mass vaccinating in week one and many having allergic reactions or worse

[Oliver_W]

Yeah they seem to be doing okay. It doesn't erase the terrible work they've done so far, and I wonder if they'll be trying as hard once the May council elections are done and dusted. "Ohhh, they're trying their best! Look at how well they're doing with the vaccine!! Maybe they're not so bad after all!!!"

[Cherie]

Yeah they seem to be doing okay. It doesn't erase the terrible work they've done so far, and I wonder if they'll be trying as hard once the May council elections are done and dusted. "Ohhh, they're trying their best! Look at how well they're doing with the vaccine!! Maybe they're not so bad after all!!!"

What the hell :laugh: you think this is about the May elections :facepalm:

[Oliver_W]

What the hell :laugh: you think this is about the May elections :facepalm:

Not necessarily :laugh: nor do I think they admittedly okay job they're doing with the vaccine is representative of how they've been doing up to this point. It's just, most governments start doing crowd-pleasers when a general election is round the corner. I could see the tories getting decimated in council elections if they'd continued to hopelessly flounder to the same degree...

[Gstar]

Vaccination programme: Maybe
Pandemic as a whole: No

[Tom4784]

You do realise we are the second fastest country in the world per population? There are 195 countries. I really don’t think we could have been any faster or done any better...

We pre ordered the first and third approved vaccines (out of about 30 at stage 3) straight away and have logistically managed to vaccine as many people as possible per the supply demands.

I feel it’s a bit pedantic to try and say we should have been faster or vaccinate more people.. I mean can you look at this chart and say that with a straight face... really.. no really? Don’t let any biases show


https://i.ibb.co/2nFTYjd/0-B28-BF1-D-8-DF3-421-B-ABEB-EE1203-AB7-EAF.jpg

The irony.

Tables don't matter to me, just because we're second doesn't mean there isn't room for improvement. we aren't perfect and excusing the need for improvement because we're doing better than most countries is pointless. We can always do better, and we should strive to do just that.

The only times we should be comparing ourselves to other countries is if they are doing something we could do to improve our situation, using other countries performances as an excuse to not do better is a terrible attitude.

[Samm]

Yes the vaccine programme is going well. However it’s one of the only elements during this crisis the government didn’t have complete control over. Oxford scientists were able to work amazingly to find a vaccine so quickly through a world effort. All the government have done is effectively bought enough doses and planned ahead because our death figure is the highest in Europe.

The government however DID have direct control over locking down the country sooner, limiting travel and closing borders, lifting lockdowns too early , the dreaded tier system and of course not forgetting eat out to help out.

[DouglasS]

The irony.

Tables don't matter to me, just because we're second doesn't mean there isn't room for improvement. we aren't perfect and excusing the need for improvement because we're doing better than most countries is pointless. We can always do better, and we should strive to do just that.

The only times we should be comparing ourselves to other countries is if they are doing something we could do to improve our situation, using other countries performances as an excuse to not do better is a terrible attitude.

The point is we are dominating... miles and miles ahead.. in terms of speed of the vaccine rollout and also in our supply.

It’s like critasizing countries like New Zealand And Australia saying they did a rubbish job because they weren’t covid free sooner..

it’s just quite silly to not be able to congratulate countries when they have done objectively well. I use data and charts because it uses data and it is comparable, it is better to use that rather than random bias opinions. This data isn’t bias, it is a breakdown of each country. The U.K. dominating in the vaccine efforts..

[DouglasS]

Yes the vaccine programme is going well. However it’s one of the only elements during this crisis the government didn’t have complete control over. Oxford scientists were able to work amazingly to find a vaccine so quickly through a world effort. All the government have done is effectively bought enough doses and planned ahead because our death figure is the highest in Europe.

The government however DID have direct control over locking down the country sooner, limiting travel and closing borders, lifting lockdowns too early , the dreaded tier system and of course not forgetting eat out to help out.

Downplaying the governments efforts :laugh:

This vaccination programme will probably be one of the most amazing and astonishing things a government has ever done

A vaccine rollout task is not some simple task. They got millions of supply of the first vaccine to be approved and ensured they were top of the list. They researched incredibly well. They had hospital storage space ready immediately across the entire country, they trained up thousands of people in advance across the country to help with mass vaccination. They heavily funded into the Oxford vaccine to help it progress as fast as it did so it would be one of the leading vaccines, they were also ready for the mass vaccination as soon as it got ready.

Just because you don’t like the tories doesn’t mean you should just downplay a great accomplishment, surely objectively speaking you can see this as a great achievement by the government and they have done really well in this aspect (quite a large aspect) of the pandemic

[Glenn.]

One ok thing against at least half a dozen life ending decisions...

[Saph]

vaccine the young people first so we can go out lmao

[Nicky91]

vaccine the young people first so we can go out lmao

no, not all young people (only those in a risk group, those who got asthma, other medical conditions)

[Oliver_W]

vaccine the young people first so we can go out lmao

Some nutters seem to think that once the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated, the young and healthy should wait for the rest of the world to be done..

[joeysteele]

Yes the vaccine programme is going well. However it’s one of the only elements during this crisis the government didn’t have complete control over. Oxford scientists were able to work amazingly to find a vaccine so quickly through a world effort. All the government have done is effectively bought enough doses and planned ahead because our death figure is the highest in Europe.

The government however DID have direct control over locking down the country sooner, limiting travel and closing borders, lifting lockdowns too early , the dreaded tier system and of course not forgetting eat out to help out.



You are right.
Also too they have in the main handed the responsibility of the vaccine roll out rightly to public health and the local sources.

This is what can bring the best possible success when you use the right sourcing rather than looking for private sources.

So across the board the vaccine roll out has been successful from to their credit on the vaccine, how the government decided to have it done.

There will be tests to come.
The problem arose of not carrying out the still recommended or not much longer second vaccine to be given.

The success of the second roll out of that will be equally as vital and important as this first roll out.

So as you say, it is something the government had little to no control over as to the vaccines.

Whereas too, your last paragraph cannot be disputed and along with other very serious things you as well as your list, definitely.
The government had full control on those things, not with hindsight either but actually with forewarning from January last year of what was to come.

Well said Samm.

[Samm]

You are right.
Also too they have in the main handed the responsibility of the vaccine roll out rightly to public health and the local sources.

This is what can bring the best possible success when you use the right sourcing rather than looking for private sources.

So across the board the vaccine roll out has been successful from to their credit on the vaccine, how the government decided to have it done.

There will be tests to come.
The problem arose of not carrying out the still recommended or not much longer second vaccine to be given.

The success of the second roll out of that will be equally as vital and important as this first roll out.

So as you say, it is something the government had little to no control over as to the vaccines.

Whereas too, your last paragraph cannot be disputed and along with other very serious things you as well as your list, definitely.
The government had full control on those things, not with hindsight either but actually with forewarning from January last year of what was to come.

Well said Samm.

Yep Joey! great point about the use of local sources, I really didn’t think of that. It begs the question then since so far the vaccine roll out has been so successful with this method. I wonder if our shockingly bad test and trace system would of been of “world beating” standard had the government sourced this through public health and local sources, instead of the private source they used!

[joeysteele]

Yep Joey! great point about the use of local sources, I really didn’t think of that. It begs the question then since so far the vaccine roll out has been so successful with this method. I wonder if our shockingly bad test and trace system would of been of “world beating” standard had the government sourced this through public health and local sources, instead of the private source they used!

Yes, I do myself personally believe test, track and trace would have had much more success under the full direction of more public health and local sourced action.

[Oliver_W]

I wouldn't necessarily mind the government using a private developer for the track and trace, but the one they chose was so crap and so expensive...

Like, Facebook and that app, square something? They can keep track of where you're going based on location data and public check-in points, how hard would it be to use that tech as a blueprint?

[user104658]

Some nutters seem to think that once the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated, the young and healthy should wait for the rest of the world to be done..

In theory if you wanted global eradication, the best path forward would be a global approach of vaccinating the elderly and vulnerable and then working down the groups in sync...

However, the sort of global organization effort needed for that doesn't exist and in the current world cannot exist, different countries are going to move at different rates, and (frankly) at least half of the global population is never even going to be offered vaccination. Global eradication is simply not possible and Covid will continue to circulate, thus, the next best option is to concentrate efforts locally to mitigate the worst of it, and probably constant vaccine development to tackle new emerging strains as they appear, if they're particularly worrying ones.

[The Slim Reaper]

The 1 year anniversary of this iconic speech given by Boris. He's doing his best...

1356905085285072902

[user104658]

The 1 year anniversary of this iconic speech given by Boris. He's doing his best...

1356905085285072902

The right of human populations, throughout the earth, to ... ... ... buy 'n' sell ****.

Isn't that just capitalism dogma in a nutshell. Elevation of what started as a way to barter goods and services to get stuff done a little more easily, into some sort of philosophically intrinsic aspect of human existence. It's just so ... ... empty.

[Oliver_W]

In theory if you wanted global eradication, the best path forward would be a global approach of vaccinating the elderly and vulnerable and then working down the groups in sync...

However, the sort of global organization effort needed for that doesn't exist and in the current world cannot exist, different countries are going to move at different rates, and (frankly) at least half of the global population is never even going to be offered vaccination. Global eradication is simply not possible and Covid will continue to circulate, thus, the next best option is to concentrate efforts locally to mitigate the worst of it, and probably constant vaccine development to tackle new emerging strains as they appear, if they're particularly worrying ones.

So the young and healthy are meant to sit around, twiddling our thumbs, waiting for people who might not even be offered a vaccination to catch up?
Nah.
The global approach should start at home.

[Tom4784]

The point is we are dominating... miles and miles ahead.. in terms of speed of the vaccine rollout and also in our supply.

It’s like critasizing countries like New Zealand And Australia saying they did a rubbish job because they weren’t covid free sooner..

it’s just quite silly to not be able to congratulate countries when they have done objectively well. I use data and charts because it uses data and it is comparable, it is better to use that rather than random bias opinions. This data isn’t bias, it is a breakdown of each country. The U.K. dominating in the vaccine efforts..

No, that's not the point, you've completely missed the point, actually.

It doesn't matter if we're 'dominating', if we can do better, we should do better. People are dying everyday, we shouldn't pat ourselves on the back until we bring that number down to 0.

It's nothing like Australia or New Zealand because they took pre-emptive measures that allowed them to damn near eradicate Covid in their countries and deal with it quickly when it came back. Boris and the government sleepwalked into this crisis despite knowing how bad it would be which is why our death and infection rates are awful. Your comparison lacks all context or relation to what I'm saying.

You see it as a competition, as long as we're doing the 'best' that's enough and it's not. This isn't a competition, it's a crisis and we shouldn't use leaderboards as an excuse to allow complacency. Leaderboard don't mean **** when we're still struggling to contain the virus.

Also, you really need to stop using 'bias' like it's some buzzword that instantly wins an argument for you, especially when you're too busy cheerleading a government with mostly failures under it's belt for this crisis. To accuse anyone of bias when you're waving a union jack at the UK being high up on a ****ing leaderboard while trying to shoot down suggestions that we could do better in the middle of a pandemic that is kicking our arses is just too much.

It's not bias on my end, it's being realistic. Your misplaced loyalty to a political party makes it impossible for you to criticise them or accept they can do no wrong even when it's proven they have (Re: Priti Patel). Honestly, you're just projecting.

[Vicky.]

Some nutters seem to think that once the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated, the young and healthy should wait for the rest of the world to be done..

Erm I would prefer a variation on this.

Once the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated, the young and healthy can wait for a vaccine if they wish, but otherwise, are free to make their own choice (especially now it seems that there is indeed some stopping of actually catching covid with the vaccines also, not just lower chance of bad illness). It remains a waste of money, time and vaccines to me, to vaccinate younger healthy people really. Yeah if they actively want it. But given it would likely be a 'stay in for another X month waiting for your vaccine' or 'take your tiny tiny risk of getting it badly and live again now'..I cannot imagine the young and fit vaccine line would be too long really. Its always been about the vulnerable. I find it a little depressing when younger people I know are absolutely terrified for their own risk, mainly due to the media repeating the same couple of outliers of younger fit people dying, and such. And while I am well aware that covid is not flu, the vaccine situation I tend to compare in my head, those thinking everyone in the country should get it..would they also push for those not in high risk groups to get the flu vaccine too? I would rather focus went on those who are higher risk, tbh.

I still think its likely a new vaccine may be needed semi regularly, maybe not as often as the flu one, but more than a one off. Focus should really be on getting that right for the people who need it, or would very much benefit from it. Figures dn't really bear out, that younger fitter people wold have much benefit really. There is not endless cash for this either, so in my mind funding should be directed to where its more needed.

[Cherie]

Indonesia are vaccinating the youngest first

Vaccination against COVID-19: why does Indonesia prioritize younger people?
Although the Southeast Asian country also chose to vaccinate, first, health professionals and workers on the so-called front line, they are followed by economically active groups between 18 to 59 years old, Reuters reported.

The reason is linked to the theory of herd immunity: Indonesia is committed to achieving herd immunity faster than other countries that have already started vaccinating their population, such as Argentina, the United States and the United Kingdom.

[Oliver_W]

and to be fair, a good way to stop new worldwide variants coming in would be to close the borders, as SAGE and Air Kier recommend. There's no need to keep allowing people in at this time.

[rusticgal]

I think they are doing a magnificent job....its so easy to sit back and critisise. No other Politician would have wanted to be in Boris's shoes leading his country through a pandemic...so all they do it fault him at any opportunity. Of course mistakes have been made..and sadly many lives lost...but we through money at creating a vaccine and when we got one we stuck our order in and now we are rolling it out with efficiency....:cheer2:

[Tom4784]

I think they are doing a magnificent job....its so easy to sit back and critisise. No other Politician would have wanted to be in Boris's shoes leading his country through a pandemic...so all they do it fault him at any opportunity. Of course mistakes have been made..and sadly many lives lost...but we through money at creating a vaccine and when we got one we stuck our order in and now we are rolling it out with efficiency....:cheer2:

You SHOULD sit back and criticise the government, not downplay it's incompetence and sneer at those who take issue with the government's lack of action when it counted.

The government works for it's people, the worship people have for Boris is nothing short of unnerving. He wasn't forced into that job, in fact he and other Tories manipulated events to get him that position. He played the game. He's not some hero, he's a leader that has constantly mishandled one of the greatest crises in recent memory. When the government do something wrong, hold them accountable, don't baby them because when they **** up, people die.

[Samm]

I think they are doing a magnificent job....its so easy to sit back and critisise. No other Politician would have wanted to be in Boris's shoes leading his country through a pandemic...so all they do it fault him at any opportunity. Of course mistakes have been made..and sadly many lives lost...but we through money at creating a vaccine and when we got one we stuck our order in and now we are rolling it out with efficiency....:cheer2:

The job of a PM isn’t something you apply for on indeed luv. He wanted it, he got it. So he should be responsible for everything in regards to public well being.

[The Slim Reaper]

The right of human populations, throughout the earth, to ... ... ... buy 'n' sell ****.

Isn't that just capitalism dogma in a nutshell. Elevation of what started as a way to barter goods and services to get stuff done a little more easily, into some sort of philosophically intrinsic aspect of human existence. It's just so ... ... empty.

Yup. Folks were already dying at this point, and Boris saw it as an opportunity to profit from.

[bots]

as we progress down the age groups there will be less and less people who wish to get the vaccine, so by the summer, most people in the uk who want the jab will have had their 2 shots.

I think we should quickly be able to donate excess vaccine to countries, getting everyone ready for next winter

[DouglasS]

I think they are doing a magnificent job....its so easy to sit back and critisise. No other Politician would have wanted to be in Boris's shoes leading his country through a pandemic...so all they do it fault him at any opportunity. Of course mistakes have been made..and sadly many lives lost...but we through money at creating a vaccine and when we got one we stuck our order in and now we are rolling it out with efficiency....:cheer2:
Can always rely on you rusti to talk sense
:clap1:

[hijaxers]

Yes Grim is getting his on Saturday morn , had a text yesterday .

[rusticgal]

The job of a PM isn’t something you apply for on indeed luv. He wanted it, he got it. So he should be responsible for everything in regards to public well being.


I didn’t say it was....and I didn’t say he shouldn’t :laugh:....luv



Giving credit where credit is due....

[Glenn.]

I didn’t say it was....and I didn’t say he shouldn’t :laugh:....luv



Giving credit where credit is due....

If you truly believe Boris has made a triumph of this then you have to live with that I suppose.

[Cherie]

Yes Grim is getting his on Saturday morn , had a text yesterday .

Great stuff Grimmy

[Marsh.]

The job of a PM isn’t something you apply for on indeed luv. He wanted it, he got it. So he should be responsible for everything in regards to public well being.

:clap1:

"Of course mistakes have been made..and sadly many lives lost... BUT.."

It seems you can't rightfully criticise when he makes the ultimate mistake of loss of life in a way that was easily avoidable had he listened to the advice he was given.

Nobody asked him to see into the future, they asked him to do his job and he failed.

[jet]

Can always rely on you rusti to talk sense
:clap1:

I second that...:clap1:

[rusticgal]

If you truly believe Boris has made a triumph of this then you have to live with that I suppose.


We can all look back and do things better....but sometimes we don’t get a second chance. Of course he has made mistakes...haven’t we all?

Thanks to Boris and his government, we have a vaccine because of the funding...we secured enough vaccine and we have reached our target of vaccinating so many and will continue to do so....

Yes...I can live quite happily with that.

[Glenn.]

We can all look back and do things better....but sometimes we don’t get a second chance. Of course he has made mistakes...haven’t we all?

Thanks to Boris and his government, we have a vaccine because of the funding...we secured enough vaccine and we have reached our target of vaccinating so many and will continue to do so....

Yes...I can live quite happily with that.

It’s just an awful shame that over 100,000 people can’t say the same. But yay! Well done Boris, you did ONE good thing right.

[Marsh.]

We can all look back and do things better....but sometimes we don’t get a second chance. Of course he has made mistakes...haven’t we all?

Ignoring expert advice and walking straight into a pandemic he KNEW was coming and led to over 100,000 deaths is a mistake only seen in hindsight and a "haven't we all?"? No. You're rewriting history there.

:crazy:

[DouglasS]

There were always going to be casualties people are acting like zero people should have died, it’s a pandemic... Boris can’t save everyone, but with this vaccine rollout he will bec saving thousands upon thousands of lives, which we will see from March onwards

[Samm]

We can all look back and do things better....but sometimes we don’t get a second chance. Of course he has made mistakes...haven’t we all?

Thanks to Boris and his government, we have a vaccine because of the funding...we secured enough vaccine and we have reached our target of vaccinating so many and will continue to do so....

Yes...I can live quite happily with that.

awh yeah just an odd 100,000 dead no matter, today I made a mistake in forgetting to charge my phone I guess it’s the same :love:

[Nicky91]

10 million vaccinations is better than our 200k vaccinated currently in netherlands

so UK government does phenomenally well compared to our flop Rutte and flop health minister De Jonge

[Cherie]

for the sake of mental health, people really need to take any positives and hold then rather than finding the negative in everything, just my humble opinion of course.

[Cherie]

awh yeah just an odd 100,000 dead no matter, today I made a mistake in forgetting to charge my phone I guess it’s the same :love:

:umm2:

[Nicky91]

for the sake of mental health, people really need to take any positives and hold then rather than finding the negative in everything, just my humble opinion of course.

well said Cherie, i fully agree

i admit these recent times have been quite draining on me mentally

[Oliver_W]

for the sake of mental health, people really need to take any positives and hold then rather than finding the negative in everything, just my humble opinion of course.

This. Of course any government (especially this one) can do better, but constantly moaning about how the UK's decent vaccination progress still isn't good enough is like yelling at a child for only getting a silver medal on sports day.

[Cherie]

10 million vaccinations is better than our 200k vaccinated currently in netherlands

so UK government does phenomenally well compared to our flop Rutte and flop health minister De Jonge

Have they paused vaccination Nicky as it seems to have been at that level for some days now?

[DouglasS]

It’s nice to see everyone in unison and agreement that the government is doing a fantastic job with the vaccine rollout :clap1:

[joeysteele]

Ignoring expert advice and walking straight into a pandemic he KNEW was coming and led to over 100,000 deaths is a mistake only seen in hindsight and a "haven't we all?"? No. You're rewriting history there.

:crazy:

This, really sums it up.

I do applaud the vaccine rollout certainly.
It is something that had to be got a right as is possible, no errors.

Injecting people with something totally new had to be done in as near all the right ways and BY the right sources too.

However, we've now lost more lives in the last 3 to 4 months, than were even lost from near a year ago until October.

So even had the first lockdown and losses been down to any hindsight, which I stress it WAS NOT, we had all the forewarnings from January 2020 as to what was happening in Italy and progressing through Europe too.
So it's an insult to those who've lost their lives unnecessarily to call it hindsight..
Totally insulting to them and their bereaved loved ones left too.

How then however to those claiming hindsight, when following the first lockdown, then only this government easing said lockdown, with all sorts of reckless opening up of things.
How can hindsight be the defence at all.

It can't and in my view, it's wrong to claim it can be.
Even worse is that people won't admit the wrongs and incompetence carried out by someone who has dismissed at times the vital scientific and health advice.
Has disregarded the representation of near all other parties in parliament too elected via their voters.

Who has set out to do things his way and his closest advisors way.
Which has been shown to demonstrate only a recklessly dangerous incompetence, that indeed has led to thousands of unnecessarily lost lives of loved ones.

That is at this PM's and his appointed Ministers doors.
As others said, he sought this job of PM, he got it.
No one forces him now to or forced him to do it.

My main concern is his dangerous incompetence gets defended.
In any other job, anyone presiding over the chaos and mess of things done badly and wrongly, plus lives lost too over a near year.
They'd be out and rapidly.
However only his Party can get him out.

At the very time the UK needed a fully genuinely compassionate, competent unifier to be leading us.
We got an arrogant, deluded, self styled buffoon playing a game of being at Prime Minister.
Sadly resulting in playing reckless games with his citizens lives too.

Which is the real, still as yet too, ongoing tragedy of this pandemic under this PM and his Ministers.

[Nicky91]

Have they paused vaccination Nicky as it seems to have been at that level for some days now?

umm idk, more like ordering some more doses (from Pfizer, and also now from Janssen-Johnson&Johnson)

and there was a recent data leak here at our GGD or national public health institute :skull:

[rusticgal]

Can always rely on you rusti to talk sense
:clap1:


:kiss:...:wavey:

[rusticgal]

I second that...:clap1:


:kiss:...:wavey:

[rusticgal]

This, really sums it up.

I do applaud the vaccine rollout certainly.
It is something that had to be got a right as is possible, no error.


Exactly....thats what we are discussing on this thread...

[rusticgal]

awh yeah just an odd 100,000 dead no matter, today I made a mistake in forgetting to charge my phone I guess it’s the same :love:


:huh:...ok

[Beso]

Can everyone who has made a comment please vote in the poll.

[rusticgal]

It’s just an awful shame that over 100,000 people can’t say the same. But yay! Well done Boris, you did ONE good thing right.


Its a pandemic...there are going to be casualties. This thread is about the success of the vaccine roll out and no one can dispute the fact he did a great job....you and yours are just bringing up other issues to start an argument.
Stick to the subject matter or start another thread if you want to list his failings..:laugh:

[joeysteele]

Exactly....thats what we are discussing on this thread...

I'm aware of that, thank you, however I think you will find other comments than mine, indicating on the vaccine yes, on other issues no.

I had only responded to Marsh on just that actually, obviously in agreement with him.

You yourself even raised by also openening up issues other than vaccines talking about hindsight on other issues of the pandemic anyway.

There's been no hindsight on vaccines which I do wholeheartedly still applaud the efforts on, by government, and rightly the public health and local sources who have been the ones ensuring an efficient roll out.
Hence my vote in the poll.

However, that won't change or alter my criticisms as to other aspects of the handling of the pandemic.
Of which the vaccine rollout is only ONE of the issues.
NOT the ONLY one.

[user104658]

Can everyone who has made a comment please vote in the poll.

You don't have an "in some ways" or "we don't know yet" option, so no.

I'm concerned that rushing out all of the first doses of Pfizer and supply issues will mean that people who got that vaccine won't get their 2nd dose, even at 12 weeks, and will potentially have to start over with a different vaccine. We also don't know if extending the 2nd dose interval from 3 weeks to 12 was fine/not a problem, or a huge error and we won't know for 6+ months.

Is the speed of the roll-out impressive? Yes. Have they "done a good job"? We don't know yet.

To use an allegory Parmy... let's say you go out on your daily telly fixing rounds and you fix LOADS of TVs... more than any other TV repairman in London. Have you "done a good job"? It might seems so since you fixed loads of TVs and lots of happy customers are sat at home watching EastEnders.

But then next week, all of those customers are back on the phone, furious because their TV went tits up again after 5 days... you rushed the job, bodged together a quick fix, but not a proper job that gave a lasting result.

Did you do a good job?

[user104658]

tl;dr a job done quickly is not always a job done well.

[joeysteele]

tl;dr a job done quickly is not always a job done well.

Very true that actually.

It's also not done well until it's completed fully and correctly too.

Thus far, I'd say handling it well is a more appropriate term.

Still a fair way to go however and particularly when it comes to all the second vaccinations too.

(We aren't though really in the right if we find faults with Johnson and/ or his government it seems).

[Beso]

You don't have an "in some ways" or "we don't know yet" option, so no.

I'm concerned that rushing out all of the first doses of Pfizer and supply issues will mean that people who got that vaccine won't get their 2nd dose, even at 12 weeks, and will potentially have to start over with a different vaccine. We also don't know if extending the 2nd dose interval from 3 weeks to 12 was fine/not a problem, or a huge error and we won't know for 6+ months.

Is the speed of the roll-out impressive? Yes. Have they "done a good job"? We don't know yet.

To use an allegory Parmy... let's say you go out on your daily telly fixing rounds and you fix LOADS of TVs... more than any other TV repairman in London. Have you "done a good job"? It might seems so since you fixed loads of TVs and lots of happy customers are sat at home watching EastEnders.

But then next week, all of those customers are back on the phone, furious because their TV went tits up again after 5 days... you rushed the job, bodged together a quick fix, but not a proper job that gave a lasting result.

Did you do a good job?



I cant be blamed for the failings of samsungs components. So if your scenario comes true then boris cant be blamed for the people passing these vaccines.

[Vicky.]

tl;dr a job done quickly is not always a job done well.

Quite

Though it is a refreshing change that they said they would do it quickly, and they are doing it quickest by the looks of it. Was kind expecting anther willy waggling contest, like with the nightingales..look how great we are, we built these, ner ner, better than elsewhere. Oh bugger. We cannot even use them as we ****ed over nurses so we have a huge shortage. But look, shiny pretty things that we built quickly, how amazing are we?!

[Cherie]

I cant be blamed for the failings of samsungs components. So if your scenario comes true then boris cant be blamed for the people passing these vaccines.

fair point :laugh:

Honestly I think no one thought they would roll it out so quickly and had no faith, when they said they would vaccinate first jabs to the first 4 priority groups by mid Feb, I was like..yeah right ...although as I understand it Scotland are lagging and dragging the rest down?

Funny how they are not an independent nation when things go wrong :hee:

[Marsh.]

There were always going to be casualties people are acting like zero people should have died, it’s a pandemic... Boris can’t save everyone, but with this vaccine rollout he will bec saving thousands upon thousands of lives, which we will see from March onwards

Nobody mentioned zero deaths. But you know that.
Why bother responding to what people actually said when you can change the argument, eh.

[Marsh.]

for the sake of mental health, people really need to take any positives and hold then rather than finding the negative in everything, just my humble opinion of course.

Oh definitely.

But people can do that without rewriting history and pretending the mistakes didn't happen. There's a difference.

[Marsh.]

This, really sums it up.

I do applaud the vaccine rollout certainly.
It is something that had to be got a right as is possible, no errors.

Injecting people with something totally new had to be done in as near all the right ways and BY the right sources too.

However, we've now lost more lives in the last 3 to 4 months, than were even lost from near a year ago until October.

So even had the first lockdown and losses been down to any hindsight, which I stress it WAS NOT, we had all the forewarnings from January 2020 as to what was happening in Italy and progressing through Europe too.
So it's an insult to those who've lost their lives unnecessarily to call it hindsight..
Totally insulting to them and their bereaved loved ones left too.

How then however to those claiming hindsight, when following the first lockdown, then only this government easing said lockdown, with all sorts of reckless opening up of things.
How can hindsight be the defence at all.

It can't and in my view, it's wrong to claim it can be.
Even worse is that people won't admit the wrongs and incompetence carried out by someone who has dismissed at times the vital scientific and health advice.
Has disregarded the representation of near all other parties in parliament too elected via their voters.

Who has set out to do things his way and his closest advisors way.
Which has been shown to demonstrate only a recklessly dangerous incompetence, that indeed has led to thousands of unnecessarily lost lives of loved ones.

That is at this PM's and his appointed Ministers doors.
As others said, he sought this job of PM, he got it.
No one forces him now to or forced him to do it.

My main concern is his dangerous incompetence gets defended.
In any other job, anyone presiding over the chaos and mess of things done badly and wrongly, plus lives lost too over a near year.
They'd be out and rapidly.
However only his Party can get him out.

At the very time the UK needed a fully genuinely compassionate, competent unifier to be leading us.
We got an arrogant, deluded, self styled buffoon playing a game of being at Prime Minister.
Sadly resulting in playing reckless games with his citizens lives too.

Which is the real, still as yet too, ongoing tragedy of this pandemic under this PM and his Ministers.

Spot on, Joey.

[Marsh.]

Exactly....thats what we are discussing on this thread...

Yet.... you saw fit to bring up Boris' actions at the start and completely rewrite what he did.

Odd.

[rusticgal]

Oh definitely.

But people can do that without rewriting history and pretending the mistakes didn't happen. There's a difference.


Whos pretending mistakes didnt happen?

[user104658]

I cant be blamed for the failings of samsungs components. So if your scenario comes true then boris cant be blamed for the people passing these vaccines.

You could be blamed for rushing the job so that you could get more done in a shorter time, though.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with the vaccines - I'm saying we don't know (yet) if the longer delay against manufacturer's instructions will have an impact on effectiveness, and we don't know (yet) if supply lines will hold up well enough for people to get their second dose in time.

It might be fine and then we can say they did a great job - but you don't declare a job well done when it's not finished yet. That's just basic common sense.

[Marsh.]

Whos pretending mistakes didnt happen?

You did when you said Boris' mistakes are easier to see in "hindsight". Which is flat out wrong.

They were such catastrophic mistakes because he DID have warnings he chose to ignore.

[bots]

You could be blamed for rushing the job so that you could get more done in a shorter time, though.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with the vaccines - I'm saying we don't know (yet) if the longer delay against manufacturer's instructions will have an impact on effectiveness, and we don't know (yet) if supply lines will hold up well enough for people to get their second dose in time.

It might be fine and then we can say they did a great job - but you don't declare a job well done when it's not finished yet. That's just basic common sense.

the latest test data shows that the AZ vaccine becomes more effective with a longer interval, it may not be the same for the other brands, time will tell

[rusticgal]

Yet.... you saw fit to bring up Boris' actions at the start and completely rewrite what he did.

Odd.


...where did I re-write what he did?

[Marsh.]

...where did I re-write what he did?

I've already shown you.

[Cherie]

You could be blamed for rushing the job so that you could get more done in a shorter time, though.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with the vaccines - I'm saying we don't know (yet) if the longer delay against manufacturer's instructions will have an impact on effectiveness, and we don't know (yet) if supply lines will hold up well enough for people to get their second dose in time.

It might be fine and then we can say they did a great job - but you don't declare a job well done when it's not finished yet. That's just basic common sense.

The question is about the here and now though, no one has a crystal ball

[rusticgal]

You did when you said Boris' mistakes are easier to see in "hindsight". Which is flat out wrong.

They were such catastrophic mistakes because he DID have warnings he chose to ignore.


....but I havent said he didnt make mistakes...so your accusations are wrong.

[Marsh.]

....but I havent said he didnt make mistakes...so your accusations are wrong.

That's not what I said.

I said you rewrote that his mistakes were only seen in hindsight, thus relieving him of blame. Which is plain wrong.

[DouglasS]

That's not what I said.

I said you rewrote that his mistakes were only seen in hindsight, thus relieving him of blame. Which is plain wrong.

You are making this up and insinuating things to come to your own conclusion on what Rusti has said.. . She just said in hindsight it’s always eaisier to see where you go wrong.. Which is true.

Also why are you turning this thread into negatives, this is about the amazing job done by Boris :clap1:

[Marsh.]

Wrong again, Jack. I'm responding to something rustic posted, she brought it into the thread.

But you knew that. :pat:

[rusticgal]

That's not what I said.

I said you rewrote that his mistakes were only seen in hindsight, thus relieving him of blame. Which is plain wrong.


You said I was 'pretending' mistakes didn't happen....its quite simple I didnt say that. If you want to bring my use of the word 'hindsight' into it it has no relevance to your accusation...because hindsight relieves no one of blame...again you twist words to suit your agenda and its tiresome..

[rusticgal]

Also why are you turning this thread into negatives, this is about the amazing job done by Boris :clap1:


Some people just are not big enough to give credit where credit is due...sad really, because there is no denying Boris and his Government have done a great job regarding the Vaccines.

[Marsh.]

Some people just are not big enough to give credit where credit is due...

Where is this exactly? I responded to something you brought up.

[Marsh.]

You said I was 'pretending' mistakes didn't happen....its quite simple I didnt say that. If you want to bring my use of the word 'hindsight' into it it has no relevance to your accusation...because hindsight relieves no one of blame...again you twist words to suit your agenda and its tiresome..

It has a big relevance. "It's easy to spot mistakes in hindsight" is insinuating he couldn't have seen them at the time, when he could.

You can twist it and make that my problem all you want, but those are your words.

[Tom4784]

At the end of the day, all the world leaders, Boris included, had reports about the threat of Covid back in January 2020. No one can truthfully claim he didn't see it coming and that hindsight is 20/20 when he was informed of the dangers and did nothing until his hand was forced.

The babying of Boris is an insult to those who have died due to his mismanagement. When will Tory supporters take their tongue out of his arsehole and hold him accountable?

[DouglasS]

At the end of the day, all the world leaders, Boris included, had reports about the threat of Covid back in January 2020. No one can truthfully claim he didn't see it coming and that hindsight is 20/20 when he was informed of the dangers and did nothing until his hand was forced.

The babying of Boris is an insult to those who have died due to his mismanagement. When will Tory supporters take their tongue out of his arsehole and hold him accountable?

Off topic a bit there, this thread is about the covid vaccination roll out

As I was saying, fantastic job Boris, Matt Hancock, lovely Priti and the whole government for going above and beyond

[rusticgal]

It has a big relevance. "It's easy to spot mistakes in hindsight" is insinuating he couldn't have seen them at the time, when he could.

You can twist it and make that my problem all you want, but those are your words.

You are seriously boring me now....Im moving on.

[Tom4784]

Off topic a bit there, this thread is about the covid vaccination roll out

As I was saying, fantastic job Boris, Matt Hancock, lovely Priti and the whole government for going above and beyond

And it has since moved on to the covid response in general, deal with it.

It's quite sad how tory supporters will seem to support any incompetence as long as it's dressed up in blue. If any party had committed the sins that the tories have, I'd condemn them all the same whether I voted for them or not, could you say you'd be as supportive if a non-tory party had responded to Covid like the tories did? Not if you were being honest with yourself.

[Beso]

At the end of the day, all the world leaders, Boris included, had reports about the threat of Covid back in January 2020. No one can truthfully claim he didn't see it coming and that hindsight is 20/20 when he was informed of the dangers and did nothing until his hand was forced.

The babying of Boris is an insult to those who have died due to his mismanagement. When will Tory supporters take their tongue out of his arsehole and hold him accountable?


Shall I put you down as a no?

[rusticgal]

Shall I put you down as a no?


:laugh:

[Nicky91]

Off topic a bit there, this thread is about the covid vaccination roll out

As I was saying, fantastic job Boris, Matt Hancock, lovely Priti and the whole government for going above and beyond

:clap1:

exactly, and they do a very good job with that

the numbers speak for itself, those who had their single dose highly doubt they will end up on the ICU which is good

[jet]

As I was saying, fantastic job Boris, Matt Hancock, lovely Priti and the whole government for going above and beyond

:clap1: They deserve a lot of praise for this. Great job Gov!

[Tom4784]

They don't deserve praise for cleaning up their mess, no.

[Captain.Remy]

I don't live in the UK anymore so I can't comment on what is happening right now. But I will say that from what we see and read from an outside country, the UK is seen as a very reactive country when it comes to vaccines. But really for the management of the pandemic itself, Boris is not really praised (not that most world leaders are praised for their incredible crisis management skills either)

But thankfully the roll out is good because you have all dealt with such a bad situation (not that it is glorious in France either having a curfew and a possible third lockdown...) due to mismanagement from the early days of the pandemic.
I think it's too early to say whether this is a success or not, time will tell because data is not solid yet and second doses have not all been given. Crossed fingers from a friendly country :love:

[Marsh.]

You are seriously boring me now....Im moving on.

A post with nothing of substance... again. Maybe don't post words you clearly don't understand the meaning of in future to avoid you spending 2 pages denying having used them.

[Beso]

Blame the people refusing to take the vaccine....the same people currently coughing over thier patients.

Blame the people refusing to cohere to guidlines.

Blame the minorities...


That's what question time said, anyway.

[user104658]

The question is about the here and now though, no one has a crystal ballMy point stands Cherie - if someone comes to put in a new kitchen I'm not going to say he's "done a great job" and hand over the cash until the job is finished. He might completely cock something up at the end and leave having done an absolutely **** job.

You can say "things are going well", "things are looking good" etc. but you can't say that a good job has been done when the job is not done at all.

You're right, no one has a crystal ball and that's why no one should be declaring a job well done until the job is done and there are still areas where this could fall apart; e.g. If there isn't enough supply for second doses.

[Cherie]

My point stands Cherie - if someone comes to put in a new kitchen I'm not going to say he's "done a great job" and hand over the cash until the job is finished. He might completely cock something up at the end and leave having done an absolutely **** job.

You can say "things are going well", "things are looking good" etc. but you can't say that a good job has been done when the job is not done at all.

You're right, no one has a crystal ball and that's why no one should be declaring a job well done until the job is done and there are still areas where this could fall apart; e.g. If there isn't enough supply for second doses.

The question is phrased in the present tense...are they ‘doing’ a good job

iI had someone fitting my kitchen and they were currently doing a great job and I was asked what kind of job were they doing...what would I say?

As it stands yes the kitchen fitter is doing a great job

Yes I could speculate that down the line he might blow the electrics but that would be speculation and unfair as currently there is no indication that might happen

If a surgeon operates on you and does a great job, but you pick up an infection when you get home it doesn’t take away that that initially the surgery went well :smug:

[Beso]

The question is phrased in the present tense...are they ‘doing’ a good job

iI had someone fitting my kitchen and they were currently doing a great job and I was asked what kind of job were they doing...what would I say?

As it stands yes the kitchen fitter is doing a great job

Yes I could speculate that down the line he might blow the electrics but that would be speculation and unfair as currently there is no indication that might happen

If a surgeon operates on you and does a great job, but you pick up an infection when you get home it doesn’t take away that that initially the surgery went well :smug:



You said it all for me.

[user104658]

The question is phrased in the present tense...are they ‘doing’ a good job

iI had someone fitting my kitchen and they were currently doing a great job and I was asked what kind of job were they doing...what would I say?

As it stands yes the kitchen fitter is doing a great job

Yes I could speculate that down the line he might blow the electrics but that would be speculation and unfair as currently there is no indication that might happen

If a surgeon operates on you and does a great job, but you pick up an infection when you get home it doesn’t take away that that initially the surgery went well :smug:

:shrug: we're not talking about a surgery that's complete and something might go wrong later, we're looking at a patient still on the table with their ribs cracked open. You can say that everything seems to be going fine, but you can't say it's a good job until you have some evidence that it's a good job.

In terms of vaccines, we know that they are currently doing a QUICK job, and we HOPE that the outcome is going to be good. Certainly, I'm not saying there's any evidence that the outcome won't be positive. I'm just saying there's no way to know either way. Saying they're "doing a good job" is at best observational guesswork. It's fine that some people are OK with that and comfortable declaring that a good job... but I personally want to see the outcome of "a good job" before I confidently declare it "a good job". Again I have no problem with others thinking this is a good job - I have a problem with certain people "pushing for an answer" to try to smugly railroad others into declaring it a good job, when there are perfectly valid reasons for not wanting to answer that question yet.

[smudgie]

Up to now it appears to be going well.

[Cherie]

:shrug: we're not talking about a surgery that's complete and something might go wrong later, we're looking at a patient still on the table with their ribs cracked open. You can say that everything seems to be going fine, but you can't say it's a good job until you have some evidence that it's a good job.

In terms of vaccines, we know that they are currently doing a QUICK job, and we HOPE that the outcome is going to be good. Certainly, I'm not saying there's any evidence that the outcome won't be positive. I'm just saying there's no way to know either way. Saying they're "doing a good job" is at best observational guesswork. It's fine that some people are OK with that and comfortable declaring that a good job... but I personally want to see the outcome of "a good job" before I confidently declare it "a good job". Again I have no problem with others thinking this is a good job - I have a problem with certain people "pushing for an answer" to try to smugly railroad others into declaring it a good job, when there are perfectly valid reasons for not wanting to answer that question yet.

My interpretation is the question is about the vaccine roll out?

In terms of orders of vaccine

In terms of investment in research

In terms of infrastructure

In terms of having humans vaccinating 7 days a week

Yes you can add in all sorts of of ifs and buts and what might happen

But in terms of the now..it’s going well


I thought you loved an analogy :laugh: seems not!

[Cherie]

Up to now it appears to be going well.

But but Smudge it could all go horribly wrong ...let’s focus on that :worry:

[smudgie]

But but Smudge it could all go horribly wrong ...let’s focus on that :worry:

Let’s not.:fist:

[user104658]

My interpretation is the question is about the vaccine roll out?

In terms of orders of vaccine

In terms of investment in research

In terms of infrastructure

In terms of having humans vaccinating 7 days a week

Yes you can add in all sorts of of ifs and buts and what might happen

But in terms of the now..it’s going well


I thought you loved an analogy :laugh: seems not!

Again it's fine for you to hold whatever opinion you hold about how well it is or isn't going, but my issue is with a number of people trying to "gotcha!" others into having or giving an answer to a question that there is no objective answer to, only opinion and speculation.

[Beso]

Janet Jackson will be one of those to refuse the vaccine

[Cherie]

Again it's fine for you to hold whatever opinion you hold about how well it is or isn't going, but my issue is with a number of people trying to "gotcha!" others into having or giving an answer to a question that there is no objective answer to, only opinion and speculation.

The problem is some members are not answering the question asked imo,

If I ask you how you are getting on right now are you going to tell me to hang on for 6 months and you will tell me how you are then :laugh:

[Cherie]

Janet Jackson will be one of those to refuse the vaccine

She might be worried about a wardrobe malfunction

[rusticgal]

My interpretation is the question is about the vaccine roll out?

In terms of orders of vaccine

In terms of investment in research

In terms of infrastructure

In terms of having humans vaccinating 7 days a week

Yes you can add in all sorts of of ifs and buts and what might happen

But in terms of the now..it’s going well


I thought you loved an analogy :laugh: seems not!


I loved it...

[Vicky.]

Well my answer is they appear to be doing a quick job. Which in theory should also be a 'good' job in this situation. But it won't be if problems emerge later down the line, as a result of the quick job. But I am impressed that they can actually manage to do smething they say they will. Rather than much much fluffing, followed by letdowns.

That I am impressed they can actually follow through on what they say, is sad..and concerning in itself really.

Currently, looking good though. Ignoring stupid vaccination centres and that, which is not the governments issue. Thats the fault of the centres.

[Beso]

No silly mistakes now and we are nearly there.

[Cherie]

The roll out of 2nd doses seem to be going well, not heard of anyone not getting it as yet?

My son is getting his 2nd 11th May Pfizer

[bots]

my brother and his wife both got their 2nd doze ahead of schedule

[Kazanne]

Oh how ,it must hurt some to admit they are doing a good job,lol , they are doing great, Ive had my second one as have most people where I live except the 20s/30s but even they have had some.

[arista]

Janet Jackson will be one of those to refuse the vaccine



Yes In the USA
loads are refusing,
Leaving the vaccinated to stay alive.

[Crimson Dynamo]

So far so good

[Cherie]

My son had his first end Feb so by given all over 70s were first jabbed by 15 Feb they must all be done by now I think..