View Full Version : Husband not guilty of murdering wife in lockdown
A man has been found not guilty of murdering his wife, just days into the first national Covid lockdown.
Anthony Williams, 70, said he "just flipped" and strangled his wife Ruth at their home in Cwmbran, Torfaen.
Williams, of Brynglas, Hollybush, denied murdering the 67-year-old in March 2020, but admitted manslaughter by diminished responsibility.
A jury at Swansea Crown Court took just over five hours to find the retired factory worker not guilty of murder.
Williams will be sentenced on Thursday.
The trial heard Williams strangled his wife of 46 years on the morning of 28 March after an argument.
The defence said Williams had not slept properly for several nights because of worries over coronavirus, money and his health.
He told police he had "choked the living daylights" out of Mrs Williams.
Williams had been suffering from depression and anxiety in the weeks before he killed his wife, the jury heard, and "just snapped" and attacked her when she told him to "get over it".
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-56071168
Cherie
15-02-2021, 06:01 PM
he attack began in the bedroom of their house at about 07:00 but continued downstairs after Mrs Williams fled.
She was found slumped in the porch of their home with a pair of keys in her hand, which the prosecution said showed she was trying to escape.
After the attack, Williams went to his next door neighbours' house and told them his wife was dead, telling them to "call the police, I've killed her".
not guilty...okay
he attack began in the bedroom of their house at about 07:00 but continued downstairs after Mrs Williams fled.
She was found slumped in the porch of their home with a pair of keys in her hand, which the prosecution said showed she was trying to escape.
After the attack, Williams went to his next door neighbours' house and told them his wife was dead, telling them to "call the police, I've killed her".
not guilty...okay
yeah, i couldn't believe the verdict either
Parmy
15-02-2021, 06:04 PM
Jesus.hes done well to dodge covid since then..perhaps prisons are the safest places these days.
Vicky.
15-02-2021, 06:04 PM
A refreshing change from 'sex game gone wrong' which usually is used (and accepted) when men strangle women. But crappy all the same. RIP:(
Crimson Dynamo
15-02-2021, 06:05 PM
"He told police he had "choked the living daylights" out of Mrs Williams."
|Im no detective but i feel this was a clue?
:think:
Cherie
15-02-2021, 06:18 PM
"He told police he had "choked the living daylights" out of Mrs Williams."
|Im no detective but i feel this was a clue?
:think:
yeah I mean the standard would have been 'I had no idea how much force I was exerting' :facepalm:
Not I knew I was killing her
I feel mental health is so over abused as an excuse now as well
user104658
15-02-2021, 07:06 PM
Ffs, even if they accepted the mental health problems when considering sentencing, how can it possibly be anything other than murder? You might as well say that murder doesn't exist, because truly "cold, calculated" killings are EXTREMELY rare. The distinction should be purely in the intent at the time... e.g. someone gets punched, falls and hits their head and dies - you could call that manslaughter. But wrapping your hands round someone's throat and squeazing until they're dead? How can that be anything but murder.
...I was going to comment on this earlier and then held back to think about it...I don’t know if manslaughter would be the same or equal to ‘diminished’ responsibility and is that’s what they’re saying and that he’s actually been charged with manslaughter...none of it felt quite clear so was going to see what I could Google, if anything...
...this is also quite odd...
‘The court also head from Williams' daughter Emma, who said she told her father she feared he was "spiralling out of control".
Ms Williams said her father told her he thought he was going to "lose the house and not be able to pay the bills" despite having no mortgage on their house and £148,000 in savings.’
...I mean, diminished responsibility could attempted to be claimed ...but surely manslaughter couldn’t be because of the force involved in strangling someone to their death...it could never have been an ‘accidental death’....
Vicky.
15-02-2021, 07:27 PM
As far as I knew it, manslaughter was killing someone by accident.
Marsh.
15-02-2021, 08:12 PM
The fact he tried it, she got away and fled downstairs and he caught up with her to finish the job yet it's diminished responsibility? :umm2:
Parmy
15-02-2021, 08:13 PM
The Arthur Fowler moment will be different in every scenario.
Unfortunatly he still had the strength, and obviously enough.
Will the death be put down to covid?
Parmy
15-02-2021, 08:16 PM
I dont wish to make light of this..it is a tragic tale.
But I've just watched old women cuddling rag dolls for comfort during lockdown on the one show.
Nobody should be judged during these times..everyone can crack in the end.
We were not there, so we shouldn't judge on this tragic life story
Marsh.
15-02-2021, 08:32 PM
Yeah bit of a difference between cuddling a doll and strangling your wife to death.
Parmy
15-02-2021, 08:36 PM
Yeah bit of a difference between cuddling a doll and strangling your wife to death.
All relevent to mental health.
An old woman missing hugs from her grandkids is a lot different to an old man losing it all. FACT
But..factor in the multitude of differing human natures and the FACT its all down to the mental strain of covid.!?
then it can all be put in the same category.
Marsh.
15-02-2021, 08:40 PM
All relevent to mental health.
An old woman missing hugs from her grandkids is a lot different to an old man losing it all. FACT
But..factor in the multitude of differing human natures and the FACT its all down to the mental strain of covid though!
Well maybe then it can all be put in the same category
Maybe. Doesn't sound very likely when he claimed to be scared of losing the house, but the mortgage is paid off and had a fortune in the bank. :think:
Cherie
15-02-2021, 09:07 PM
All relevent to mental health.
An old woman missing hugs from her grandkids is a lot different to an old man losing it all. FACT
But..factor in the multitude of differing human natures and the FACT its all down to the mental strain of covid.!?
then it can all be put in the same category.
Parm he was like 2 days in, he cracked pretty fast
user104658
15-02-2021, 09:10 PM
Maybe. Doesn't sound very likely when he claimed to be scared of losing the house, but the mortgage is paid off and had a fortune in the bank. :think:
To be fair, anxiety is a strange beast and I have seen people with extreme "finances related" anxiety even though their financial situation is perfectly secure. People can and do indeed snap for the strangest of reasons. I just don't think it means he didn't murder her. Like I said you could even factor these things into sentencing but... the charge itself here should have been murder.
user104658
15-02-2021, 09:12 PM
Parm he was like 2 days in, he cracked pretty fast
Again not to make excuses for him but I'd say for many people that first week of full lockdown was the worst, mental health wise. For many the strain has increased over time, for others that initial chaos and uncertainty was worse. Again though I highly doubt the issues weren't already there and very close to the surface. It may have been the final nudge over the edge but he didn't go from "sweet old man" to wife killer in 2 days, I agree.
..he said that he hadn’t coped well since his retirement a year earlier, he’d felt ok when he was working...so yeah, I think for sure, poor mental health...and the anxieties and depression/poor sleeping etc had been going on for weeks, so possibly before the lockdown because he was such a worrier and didn’t know if their finances in particular would be ok...was a man struggling and he and his wife didn’t discuss any of his anxieties....but it’s still murder and an incredible ruling to be anything else...
..Olga Freeman who took the life of her disabled son in August last year, we had a thread about that...she’s just been found guilty of manslaughter and detained in hospital indefinitely...a possible indication of a similar type sentencing ...
GoldHeart
15-02-2021, 09:36 PM
Ffs, even if they accepted the mental health problems when considering sentencing, how can it possibly be anything other than murder? You might as well say that murder doesn't exist, because truly "cold, calculated" killings are EXTREMELY rare. The distinction should be purely in the intent at the time... e.g. someone gets punched, falls and hits their head and dies - you could call that manslaughter. But wrapping your hands round someone's throat and squeazing until they're dead? How can that be anything but murder.
Plus strangulation and choking is one of the most cold heartless ways to kill someone, they literally wait until the person stops breathing / stops struggling it's similar to smothering someone with a pillow , which is obvious they mean to kill the person.
Jake.
16-02-2021, 10:22 AM
Absolutely ridiculous sentencing and I can’t believe the amount of people I’ve seen jumping to the defence of the man on social media.
Niamh.
16-02-2021, 10:29 AM
Absolutely ridiculous sentencing and I can’t believe the amount of people I’ve seen jumping to the defence of the man on social media.
I would say I was surprised but I'd be lying...........
The coverage of stuff like this is always pandering to the men who commit these horrific crimes, a man murder his wife and children and then commits suicide and the papers are full of what a great guy he was, how the community loved him etc, the victims are almost forgotten
user104658
16-02-2021, 11:11 AM
Absolutely ridiculous sentencing and I can’t believe the amount of people I’ve seen jumping to the defence of the man on social media.
It's a fairly commonly held belief that if someone is murdered or harmed by their partner, they "must have" done something to provoke or deserve it, even if that's just "failure to leave". But if friends and family of the perpetrator are saying they're shocked - then it has to be the former. Provocation.
The reason is pretty obvious - if people don't believe that it was provoked, then they have to believe that the victim didn't see it coming, and thus, it could happen to them without them seeing it coming. "That could never happen to ME, because..." ... they must be able to tell themselves.
So if friends and family of someone who chokes their wife to death say he's always been a nice man and a good person who would never just randomly do this, then he must indeed be that (they think), and yet he did it, so there must be "other reasons".
Niamh.
16-02-2021, 11:13 AM
It's a fairly commonly held belief that if someone is murdered or harmed by their partner, they "must have" done something to provoke or deserve it, even if that's just "failure to leave". But if friends and family of the perpetrator are saying they're shocked - then it has to be the former. Provocation.
The reason is pretty obvious - if people don't believe that it was provoked, then they have to believe that the victim didn't see it coming, and thus, it could happen to them without them seeing it coming. "That could never happen to ME, because..." ... they must be able to tell themselves.
So if friends and family of someone who chokes their wife to death say he's always been a nice man and a good person who would never just randomly do this, then he must indeed be that (they think), and yet he did it, so there must be "other reasons".
Which is in reality is victim blaming at it's worst.
Vicky.
16-02-2021, 11:23 AM
Yeah I hate the 'hardworking patient family guy, friendly to all, lovely bloke, we dont know what happened?!?!?!?!' type reporting that tends to go with stories like this. Not too much of a lovely patient family guy really, if you wipe your family out, surely.
...I still struggle with it being changed to manslaughter when strangulation in the force it would take to cause death could only be a deliberate act...surely at the very most it would have been defended as diminished responsibility but still murder...
user104658
16-02-2021, 11:27 AM
Which is in reality is victim blaming at it's worst.
Yep, and I do think that underlying fear it's a huge subconscious motivation behind most victim blaming; "I don't want to believe that this could happen to me or someone I love, so what did THEY do that caused it?"
Vicky.
16-02-2021, 11:31 AM
Yep, and I do think that underlying fear it's a huge subconscious motivation behind most victim blaming; "I don't want to believe that this could happen to me or someone I love, so what did THEY do that caused it?"
I definitely agree with this. Its 'safer' for people to think they could simply avoid the behaviours that 'cause' stuff like this, than it is to accept sometimes things are totally beyond your own control.
I think thats it with a lot of conspiracy theories too actually. Much easier for us to comprehend some plot or something, than accept sometimes bad **** just happens and noone could stop it either..
Niamh.
16-02-2021, 11:35 AM
Yep, and I do think that underlying fear it's a huge subconscious motivation behind most victim blaming; "I don't want to believe that this could happen to me or someone I love, so what did THEY do that caused it?"
hhhmmmm I'm not entirely sure I agree with that, I think it's a misogynistic motivation, be that conscious or unconscious (probably unconscious for the most part) it's the same with rape cases, I've often thought that a lot of times men want to understand the man more because what if something like that ever happened to them, what if they didn't read someones signals or were wrongly accused etc and in murder cases, the woman was probably manipulative and pushed him to it somehow. I still think in society people still want women to be at fault for causing a man to do something to do them (and It's not always just men who think that way)
*Obviously I don't think all men think like this either
Cherie
16-02-2021, 11:36 AM
she ran down the stairs, she was in the porch with keys trying to get out, how did the time it took him to get down the stairs, and how terrified she must have been not stop him in his tracks
and all she said was 'get over it'
I assume there is no history of domestic abuse which probably went in his favour but even so...
...it seems and reads less to me that his wife is thought to have done anything wrong to provoke in any way...but more the depression/anxieties etc that he was going through and had been for some time, being a reason for reducing the charge to manslaughter...and that should never be...and if she had killed him and it being the same circumstances etc...would it be viewed the same or more being, ughhhhh an act of evil...
Vicky.
16-02-2021, 11:42 AM
Jury trials are so flawed really. However, I dont see a realistic way to do it besides juries. Jurys are just as likely as anyone else to believe various myths to do with how criminals/victims act and such.
...we could speculate also...and as Niamh said... (...It's not always just men who think that way and not generalising all men..)...that it could be imagined to kill a wife, so the guy had to be under so much pressure and pushed too far when any poor guy could be understood to snap...but what reason would a wife have to ever kill her husband, a lovely guy like that...there is something about that woman and we need to look very closely at her etc...
Jury trials are so flawed really. However, I dont see a realistic way to do it besides juries. Jurys are just as likely as anyone else to believe various myths to do with how criminals/victims act and such.
...one of my friends had jury duty, it was quite a few years ago...but she expected it to be a more minor case...and then found that it was a very huge case in our area with a particularly brutal murder of a wife by her husband...she really was quite traumatised for such a long time with the things that were told in court...
vBulletin® v3.8.11, Copyright ©2000-2026, vBulletin Solutions Inc.