How much subtle misogyny are you guilty of?

[Redway]

This thread’s more directly related to the blokes but anyone’s welcome to answer.

And what I mean by the thread title is whether you’re truly 100% innocent when it comes to women’s threatened safety or if you’ve contributed subtly in the past even short of actual crime.

[user104658]

Less and less. Anyone who claims zero is frankly lying (or unaware of it).

If you laughed at a mate's dodgy joke when you were 16 - even if you "only did it to fit in" - you played a part.

Personally I would say that's what I'm most guilty of - laughing along (even with an eye-roll) to "locker room banter" even when I didnt find it funny, out of fear that other males would take the piss if I didn't.

Did that right up until my late 20's, being honest.

[bots]

not guilty of any subtle misogyny at all

[Beso]

Period jokes for me.

But I dont find any jokes inappropriate so I couldnt click that one.

[user104658]

Period jokes for me.

But I dont find any jokes inappropriate so I couldnt click that one.

Sorry didn't notice it was a poll. I voted "inappropriate jokes" as described above - and honestly call BS on any man who claims they haven't let those jokes slide or even pretended to chuckle along when they came from their friends or groups of blokes. The poll doesn't just say "have you made them yourself". People should speak up and I hope things are changing, I do now, but I can say for a fact that during my entire time at school and university, I can't think of ONE example of ANY guy sticking his neck out when other guys were making "edgy jokes" about women.

Also clicked dismissing feminism as being totally honest, it's only fairly recent that I was able to see many of the more insidious issues. I've always been pro-equality but I was on board the "... But we already pretty much have that?" train of thought.




... I did not click on dismissing opinions/mansplaining, although I know there are members who probably think I should :joker:. My reasoning for this is that I'm dismissive of male opinions too and would say misanthropy fits better there than misogyny.

I am however guilty of in the past not properly listening to the female perspective on issues that affect women more than men (*cough* transrightssorryniamhandvicky) - and trying hard not to do that on a lot of subject areas is a relatively new area of self-reflection for me. You can't logic your way through every issue that doesn't affect you the same way it affects others, doesn't matter if you got super-big-brain :hehe:

[Niamh.]

That's very honest of you TS

[user104658]

That's very honest of you TS

I actually talked myself into thinking I should have clicked "guilty of being dismissive" when writing the post but I had already voted :joker:. I don't know if I like the term "mansplaining" and I think it's too often misused so has become a bit meaningless (like a lot of words) but yeah I've been guilty of thinking that taking a "detached view" on something is always the best approach, and thus dismissing the female perspective on issues that primarily affect women, when it seems so very obvious that you just can't do that. I'd apply that to all sorts of areas of course; race, social status, mental health, disability etc.

[Niamh.]

Mansplaining is definitely a thing but I agree that it's so overused now it's pretty meaningless

[Redway]

For those who’ve disagreed with the concept of women and men getting paid the same for the same job, why is that something you’d object to? (This one’s for the honest ones.)

[Marsh.]

I am however guilty of in the past not properly listening to the female perspective on issues that affect women more than men (*cough* transrightssorryniamhandvicky) - and trying hard not to do that on a lot of subject areas is a relatively new area of self-reflection for me. You can't logic your way through every issue that doesn't affect you the same way it affects others, doesn't matter if you got super-big-brain :hehe:

This

[Elliot]

Trans voices are just as important if not more on an issue that directly pertains to the healthcare trans people should receive <3

[user104658]

Trans voices are just as important if not more on an issue that directly pertains to the healthcare trans people should receive &lt;3Yes (to equal, not "more") but at the time, what I was guilty of was listening to ONLY transpeople and assuming that they were the only group affected and thus the only group who needed to be considered, which has proven to be incorrect. I thought the concerns women had were "silly" and unfounded but over time have been proven to be woefully wrong, thug leading to an awareness that I should have taken more time to actually hear what people were saying at the time instead of dismissing it thinking I knew better (which is why I chose that answer).

I would briefly add that the conversations I'm thinking of had little to do with denying anyone access to appropriate healthcare, which should of course be a universal human right.

This thread could easily derail though so maybe best not to plough though this discussion here.

[Jessica.]

Ladies, while they're answering the poll we should say how many of the options we have been affected by. 8 for me.

[Kate!]

Ladies, while they're answering the poll we should say how many of the options we have been affected by. 8 for me.

8 for me also including being touched inappropriately. More than once. Some men seem unable to keep their hands off a pair of breasts.

[Alf]

And ultimately it was woman who invented life.How did you come to that conclusion?

Show me your workings out?

[Crimson Dynamo]

And ultimately it was woman who invented life.

that is not correct

life was not invented

[Crimson Dynamo]

Man was invented by God. Eve invented life.

that is a story written by a man

I am talking about scientific fact

[Kate!]

Its a true story though LT.

[Alf]

Adam came first, didn't he?

Then he took one of his ribs and made Eve, he probably only made Eve to do a bit of cooking, cleaning and washing up. I bet he regrets it now.

[Kate!]

Then Eve took away their innocence by eating from the apple and inviting Adam to do the same.

[Alf]

Then Eve took away their innocence by eating from the apple and inviting Adam to do the same.I thought that was Snow White?

[Captain.Remy]

I thought it was Adam and Steve, but k. :shrug:

[Kate!]

I thought that was Snow White?

No. Snow White ate a poisoned apple and went into a coma

[Alf]

No. Snow White ate a poisoned apple and went into a comaI thought that was Sleeping Beauty?

[GoldHeart]

I thought that was Sleeping Beauty?

Sleeping beauty pricked her finger on a spinning wheel , maleficent set her up / put her in a trance . Then the fairies put everyone else to sleep for 100 years , until a prince could save her.

Keep up Alf

[Kate!]

I thought that was Sleeping Beauty?

no Sleeping Beauty pricked her finger on a poisoned needle and fell into a deep sleep for 100 years.

[Redway]

that is a story written by a man

I am talking about scientific fact

XY comes from XX since female’s the default sex. That’s a scientific fact.

[thesheriff443]

For the record I love strong independent women I hate week men

[user104658]

XY comes from XX since female’s the default sex. That’s a scientific fact.This is true, it's (genuinely) why the ballsack has a "seam" up the middle - it's where the two sides of the labia join and seal together when male sex hormones are introduced during gestation. It's also why men have nipples (they start to develop before the fetus goes one way or the other). Fascinating stuff really.

[Babayaro.]

I would say out of those, it would be sometimes letting inappropriate jokes slide. I do make more of an effort nowadays to call a friend out on stuff like that, but know I should try harder

[Niamh.]

Ladies, while they're answering the poll we should say how many of the options we have been affected by. 8 for me.

12 for me

[Ammi]

...I had 9 very definite’s that I didn’t post the number yesterday but it was very valid for Jess to suggest that as well, that the ones felt should be noted also...

[Beso]

They must have designed the cricket ball on a ball sack.

[Ammi]

...to be honest, though...I’m not always entirely quite clear between misogyny and sexism...I mean some are more obvious but for instance, which would ‘inappropriate jokes’ be...?...

[user104658]

...to be honest, though...I’m not always entirely quite clear between misogyny and sexism...I mean some are more obvious but for instance, which would ‘inappropriate jokes’ be...?...

I don't actually think the distinction is all that important; it would only be to "lessen" one definition vs the other for the sake of the perpetrator and stop them launching into the defensive whining... which those that way inclined would probably do anyway whether you called it misogyny or sexism. I can't personally think of many examples of sexism that don't come from some level of unconscious misogyny.

[Niamh.]

...to be honest, though...I’m not always entirely quite clear between misogyny and sexism...I mean some are more obvious but for instance, which would ‘inappropriate jokes’ be...?...

I would say the two are a lot of times entwined but misogyny is more of an actual hatred for women. Like you could be sexist but not a misogynist but all misogynists are sexists (that sounds like one of those Maths/IQ test questions :laugh: ) These are the definitions

sexism
noun
prejudice, stereotyping, or discrimination, typically against women, on the basis of sex.

misogyny
noun
dislike of, contempt for, or ingrained prejudice against women.

[Ammi]

...yeah, I’m overthinking I guess but there are ‘levels’ which I wasn’t sure if there was a line, if that makes sense...

[Ammi]

...TS, I can’t talk to you very easily when you look like Piers Morgan with a screwed up face...

[user104658]

I would say the two are a lot of times entwined but misogyny is more of an actual hatred for women. Like you could be sexist but not a misogynist but all misogynists are sexists (that sounds like one of those Maths/IQ test questions :laugh: ) These are the definitions

sexism
noun
prejudice, stereotyping, or discrimination, typically against women, on the basis of sex.

misogyny
noun
dislike of, contempt for, or ingrained prejudice against women.

See even by the dictionary definitions I think it's largely the same thing... people don't engage in the former without some element of the latter. I guess going by those, they're actually just different aspects of the same thing; misogyny is just the feelings/beliefs in and of themselves from their conception, whereas sexism is the active form of actually engaging in misogynistic behaviours (rather than just thinking them).

[user104658]

...TS, I can’t talk to you very easily when you look like Piers Morgan with a screwed up face...

Funny story; the other day I forgot I had this avatar, saw my own avatar when I was scrolling down the page, and thought the post was LT. :joker: there must be some sort of strong cognitive link!

[Niamh.]

See even by the dictionary definitions I think it's largely the same thing... people don't engage in the former without some element of the latter. I guess going by those, they're actually just different aspects of the same thing; misogyny is just the feelings/beliefs in and of themselves from their conception, whereas sexism is the active form of actually engaging in misogynistic behaviours (rather than just thinking them).

Yeah, I suppose you could say misogyny is more of a conscious thing or that some people who behave in a sexist way don't think hard enough about why sexism comes from misogyny? I don't know. Neither is great is it?

[Ammi]

Funny story; the other day I forgot I had this avatar, saw my own avatar when I was scrolling down the page, and thought the post was LT. :joker: there must be some sort of strong cognitive link!

...see, it’s just so not you at all...poor LT, though, I don’t think it’s him either...

[Ammi]

...some of the definitions that I’m reading are suggesting that sexism deals with and defines more the inequalities of sexes, as in salaries not always been equivalent for an equivalent job...?..but misogyny goes deeper into a dislike of..?..well, hatred of I guess, technically...

[user104658]

...see, it’s just so not you at all...poor LT, though, I don’t think it’s him either...

Sometimes I think it is literally him Ammi... did Piers ever express being a Big Brother fan?

[Ammi]

Sometimes I think it is literally him Ammi... did Piers ever express being a Big Brother fan?

...LT is the one feeding the grapes to Piers is what was reported in the DM...allegedly...

[Alf]

I give up!

[Alf]

I'm just not allowed to be myself.

[Mystic Mock]

I don't think that I've been guilty of misogynistic behaviour, but then I am gonna say that because nine times out of ten people don't realise that they are prejudiced towards a group of people.

An interesting topic though Redway.

[Crimson Dynamo]

There’s a difference between a sexist and a misogynist


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/life/difference-sexist-misogynist/

[Mystic Mock]

Mansplaining is definitely a thing but I agree that it's so overused now it's pretty meaningless

Oh I agree.

I saw a woman on Twitter the once say that a guy was mansplaining to her just because he disagreed with her.:joker:

The original meaning of the word is getting lost.

Oh and I've just re-read the inappropriate jokes option, I've definitely let jokes of that nature slide in the past.

[Niamh.]

There’s a difference between a sexist and a misogynist


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/life/difference-sexist-misogynist/

You need to be subscribed to read that article

[Tom4784]

I feel like the only thing that could apply to me, really, is letting inappropriate comments slide in certain situations, but that goes for LGBT issues and everything else as well. Sometimes you have to pick your battles, sometimes you have to leave people to stew in their own idiocy.

[Alf]

ETsgJE3z3Hc

[Tom4784]

A male rent-a-gob that hasn't been relevant in years, an uncle tom of the gays, telling people that feminism is cancer. I have to laugh.

I really wish the right wing would be less gullible and be more aware of how easily they are swayed by someone telling them what they want to hear.

[Jessica.]

I'm just not allowed to be myself.

A lot of women can't be themselves in so many environments, during work, at activities, participating in their hobbies. If women are nice to men they think they're being lead on and if women are not nice then they're "hormonal", you have to walk a fine line every day of your life so it's pretty hard to be yourself.

[Alf]

A lot of women can't be themselves in so many environments, during work, at activities, participating in their hobbies. If women are nice to men they think they're being lead on and if women are not nice then they're "hormonal", you have to walk a fine line every day of your life so it's pretty hard to be yourself.And what do they do about it? Do they get pissed off and complain about it?

Well snap! So do I.