Bye Blair

[Wiglet]

Tony Blair leaves No10 Downing Street for the last time today as Prime Minster after ten years of leading this country.

He won THREE elections in a row which is a first for a Labour party and Blair is possibly one of the most memorable Labour leaders there has ever been and ever will be. Blair has made many decisions as Prime Minster of this country and there will no doubt be ones we agree and disagree with. But has he really been as successful as he claims to be?

What do you think?

[Wiglet]

No one cares for Mr Blair?:xyxwave::laugh::xyxwave:

[Sunny_01]

I think he has brought the government into the here and now!

I am not a huge fan of his, never have been and I really dont like a number of the things he has been involved in, lets hope Brown for now can be a little less of a yes man to Bush!

[Lauren]

Slightly off-topic, but relevant all the same.

Did anyone notice in Brown-noses introduction speech about how his sight was saved in one eye because of the NHS? Yes... the very same NHS that has now stopped all treatment for people starting to go blind, the very same NHS that Blair has caused to fail on a mass scale... the same NHS that turned down a man for treatment as he didn't have enough money to save his sight.

Nice to hear you had it good, Brown.

[spitfire]

He leaves with a lot of blood on his hands,hopefully brown will see sense and bring our boys home.I wont hold my breathe.


Good riddance Bliar.

[Lauren]

"hopefully brown will see sense"

Highly doubt it. He's old school Labour through-and-through... we won't see any major policy changes from Bliar apart from maybe "NHS Reform" (and if I do say so myself, the very idea is an absolute shambles in comparison to Conservatives NHYes campaign).
Perhaps will see differences in pensions (which is a good thing - though bets on Labour ruining it?).

[Slartibartfast]

His faults and mistakes have been well documented and I could go on for pages and pages about those but I'd at least like to give him some recognition for the good things he did achieve.

He was instrumental in bringing peace to Northern Ireland after years of failure/apathy by other british PMs.

He introduced the European Convention on Human Rights into domestic legislation ensuring real protection for people's rights.

The tax credits system, (despite it's well documented flaws) has increased the income of thousands of families and has made a massive impact on the government's pledge to eradicate child poverty by 2020. And according to a recent UNICEF report, children in the UK now rank in the highest categories across Europe for "educational wellbeing".

Under Blair, the UK was one of only three states in the EU to open it's labour markets to the new accession states that joined the EU in MAy 2004.The influx of eastern european workers has massively boosted the UK economy.

He also modernised government, including importantly the House of Lords through his attack on the hereditary peers. (the fact that it also redressed the heavy Tory bias in the Lords was a fortunate coincidence :tongue:)

See, he wasn't all bad!!

[Emilee]

I thought blair was a great priminister! his only downfall was ssending us to war in iraq.

I also like Gordon Brown.... he will be a good priminister,

[spitfire]

Originally posted by Emilee
I thought blair was a great priminister! his only downfall was ssending us to war in iraq.

I also like Gordon Brown.... he will be a good priminister, Nhs-down the pan,Immagration he didnt have a clue,Education down the pan blah,blah,blah.
His one legacy is relative peace in N.Ireland.

[Matt]

Originally posted by spitfire
Hopefully brown will see sense

...and hold an EU Treaty referendum.

:laugh2:

[Lauren]

The only thing I'm giving Blair credit for is Northern Ireland - he did spend a lot of time tackling that, and kudos to him. However, I also believe the time was right in NI and the conditions were perfect to bring about change and peace.

The education system has gone tits up, we now don't even know who we're sharing a country with - and more worryingly - neither do the government! There's people dying everyday because we're not getting enough treatment or budgets from the government. Infact, third world countries actually have better resources for non-terminal illnesses such as partially sightedness (I know I keep banging on about that, but how dare Brown actually advertise the fact that he got it for free!!).
Oh yeah, and accidentally allowing all those "harmless" criminals out to free up prison space - - here's a solution, lock them up and throw away the key.

[spitfire]

The prison thing really does get me.Why cant they build a new prison somewhere?Seriously,this really baffles me.
As for the reletive peace in Ulster,John Major paved the way IMO.

[Matt]

...or should we leave him to sell us down the river...

[spitfire]

Originally posted by Matt™
...or should we leave him to sell us down the river... Theyve been doing that since they go to power.Time for change i think.Change the whole system round and bring in PR.

[Matt]

Originally posted by spitfire
Originally posted by Matt™
...or should we leave him to sell us down the river... Theyve been doing that since they go to power.Time for change i think.Change the whole system round and bring in PR.

...not to the extent of the EU treaty.

This government is a shambles.

All they do is tax and spend.

[spitfire]

Originally posted by Matt™
Originally posted by spitfire
Originally posted by Matt™
...or should we leave him to sell us down the river... Theyve been doing that since they go to power.Time for change i think.Change the whole system round and bring in PR.

...not to the extent of the EU treaty.

This government is a shambles.

All they do is tax and spend. You will join Lauren and get my vote on the tibb bb award next week.Im so easily persuaded,just be anti-labour.:thumbs:

[Matt]

Its true though. They invest lots of money into the NHS and what do we see for it? Nothing.

I can't believe how anyone can believe their spin.

I am so anti-Labour, and if they hand our powers over to Brussels without a referendum then I will lose any ounce of faith I have in them.

We need to get Conservatives in at the next election.

[spitfire]

I agree matt,bring back the tories as they are the only alternative.I just wish it was the tories of old.

[Matt]

You know, how Labour won three elections in a row beats me.

[Kristen]

Aww I'll miss good old Tony. As Bridget Jones said 'he's the only British Prime Minster I could ever see myself having any sexual activity with' :laugh:
I actually have no interest in politics. I would prefer if the queen ran the country tbh.

[Matt]

"Good old" Tony?

:wink:

[spitfire]

Originally posted by KristenI would prefer if the queen ran the country tbh. She does,its her goverment.God save our Queen.:thumbs:http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/5496/gers2nd1.gif (http://imageshack.us)http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/9359/inlovegerscu0.gif (http://imageshack.us)

[Matt]

I know this is off topic, but:

Nice custom smilies, where did you get them?
------------------------------------------------------------

DOWN WITH LABOUR!

(Pointless filler to make this post less off topic)

[Kristen]

Originally posted by Matt™
"Good old" Tony?

:wink:

Well no offense to him but he's been around a long time :laugh:

[spitfire]

Originally posted by Matt™
I know this is off topic, but:

Nice custom smilies, where did you get them?
------------------------------------------------------------

DOWN WITH LABOUR!

(Pointless filler to make this post less off topic) Just from different forums,any smileys i like i always save,ive got tons of 'em.The 3rd one,im sure,is from a glsgow Rangers forum.:thumbs:

[Lauren]

Originally posted by Kristen
As Bridget Jones said 'he's the only British Prime Minster I could ever see myself having any sexual activity with'

Hell no! David Cameron... maybe, but only out of sense of duty!

http://www.conservatives.com/images/involved/donate_browntake.gif

[spitfire]

Originally posted by Lauren
Originally posted by Kristen
As Bridget Jones said 'he's the only British Prime Minster I could ever see myself having any sexual activity with'

Hell no! David Cameron... maybe, but only out of sense of duty!

http://www.conservatives.com/images/involved/donate_browntake.gif Maggie for mehttp://img175.imageshack.us/img175/6900/chuckleco1.gif (http://imageshack.us)

[Princess]

You people are all so swat! I didn't even know there was a new Prime Minister till I saw it on Sky News today while waiting for the Spice Girls new :blush: But then again I'm Irish,I'll just blame that...

[spitfire]

Stick to your posters then love.

[Lauren]

Originally posted by spitfire
Maggie for mehttp://img175.imageshack.us/img175/6900/chuckleco1.gif (http://imageshack.us)

Oh I'll be honest... Maggie for me too. No-one can resist that iron fist.

[Slartibartfast]

Wow, seems we have quite the bunch of right wingers on the forum!!

Some have said about bringing back the Tories, and I'm just wondering what aspects of the old Conservative party you would all like to see brought back? Sleaze? Sexual scandals? Cash for questions? Destruction of the unions? Or is it more that you want the rich to get richer while the poor once again suffer under a Tory regime??

I guess it would be better if Cameron had actually put forward some policies, then maybe I could see the merits of a Tory government. I looked at their NHYes campaign thinking they may have actually put forward a genuine policy solution for the HNS. But I was wrong. It is simply another anti-Labour rant without putting forward any actual solutions. It's easy being in opposition, all you have to do is moan and complain without providing any answers. :bored:

What we really need is a good strong british communist/socialist worker party, since basically both Labour and Tory have moved toward the centre in the last decade and there are no real lefty parties with a chance of making a difference. PR would redress the balance, but if you were in power having been elected on our current system, would you change it??

And to be honest, if you want to go green, then vote Green. :spin:

[Wiglet]

MAGGIE THATCHER!!!!!

Excuse the capitals but I was a little girl when she came into power and I was a little older when she left and actually she was a good solid leader but by golly she was scary:shocked::shocked::shocked:

Tony Blair.....I've read something Slarti said and one thing that I would disagree (actually there are a few items on Blair I disagree with) but this first is Blair is I do not agree that Blair is responsible for Northern Ireland, old American President Clinton was the one who was instrumental there.

Education....hmmmmm. Speaking as a school governor who listens every time to Brown state "Extra money, extra money", sorry everyone this aint true! This statement is repeated over and over again, money is robbed from Peter to pay Paul and it is an utter disgrace. Now I'm going to pay a compliment though because as I said earlier I was brought up in the 'Maggie era' and by golly that was hard. Teachers went on strike back then which I'm sure any teen who hates school are probably thinking "Fantastic" but it wasn't. It screwed up your coursework which thankfully was less then but still annoying. One day we decided to stage a walkout and one of the sixth formers called the press.......Happy days :wink:
Education is still suffering but massively better than 20 years ago, if only teachers would be left to teach more?

Iraq......:cloud: If only Tony did not drift so blindly behind Bush. That is my only anger here. In my clearer moments I acknowledge that there must be more the Goverments of our country and America must now that they are not telling us, however, when snippets are released it makes our undercover info look like it has been discovered by a three year old and underminds everything else.

Lots more I could talk about but I would be here all day. I voted TB in but he lost me in the last election. Sad really as I am more Labour than anything else!!!

[Lauren]

Excuse me? The Tories don't have any "real policies"?

http://www.conservatives.com/tile.do?def=policy.home.page

They publicise all of their policies for you to freely view them. Lets take "social justice challenge" policy as an example - they show a step-by-step phase of how to fight poverty in the UK, why it occurs, and what they can do to avoid it. And you say their main ideas are to "keep the rich, rich, and the poor, poor?"

Definitely challenges Blairs "trustworthy" relationship with Giddens and the third way - which he even admitted himself was a complete and utter failure (Social exclusion is now rife).

It's a very old misconception that the Tories aim to keep the rich rich, and the poor poor. Most of their policies are based around getting people into work, educating the masses to the best of their ability and emphasising the meritocracy of hard work - prove me wrong if you can.

Also, I want to go green but have real politicans, real values, real policies, real care, and real responsibility for the country - i.e. Conservatives.

[Shaun]

Originally posted by Lauren
Excuse me? The Tories don't have any "real policies"?

http://www.conservatives.com/tile.do?def=policy.home.page

That's all very well - but where are the health, education, defence, crime, economic...(the list goes on) policies?

Those 6 "policies" are ridiculous - I saw them there last year, haven't they done anything since?

I suppose I'll leave it until the manifestoes are published before I decide - but I sure as Hell do NOT want Cameron as Prime Minister. He just has no backbone whatsoever.

[Lauren]

A lot more policies/arguments were put forward in the PMQs with Brown.

Also, Cameron has a backbone but he's dwindling towards centre to pick up labour defectors. Once he's gained the support of them he'll be moving back way right. There's a stigma attached to way-right that wouldn't fair well in elections for Conservatives, so I can understand why he would do this.

He's pretty decisive and impulsive too (in the good way, unlike Blair was) and recently turned down to even meet with his EU commitee because he's decided he's not compromising on the subject, it's a dead cert no-no for him. That shows backbone.

Edit: The crime policy is the same as it's always been.... right realist, target hardening and surveillance. Basically, "get tough on crime".

[bananarama]

Originally posted by Slartibartfast
Wow, seems we have quite the bunch of right wingers on the forum!!

Some have said about bringing back the Tories, and I'm just wondering what aspects of the old Conservative party you would all like to see brought back? Sleaze? Sexual scandals? Cash for questions? Destruction of the unions? Or is it more that you want the rich to get richer while the poor once again suffer under a Tory regime??

I guess it would be better if Cameron had actually put forward some policies, then maybe I could see the merits of a Tory government. I looked at their NHYes campaign thinking they may have actually put forward a genuine policy solution for the HNS. But I was wrong. It is simply another anti-Labour rant without putting forward any actual solutions. It's easy being in opposition, all you have to do is moan and complain without providing any answers. :bored:

What we really need is a good strong british communist/socialist worker party, since basically both Labour and Tory have moved toward the centre in the last decade and there are no real lefty parties with a chance of making a difference. PR would redress the balance, but if you were in power having been elected on our current system, would you change it??

And to be honest, if you want to go green, then vote Green. :spin:


The first two thirds of your post is a good reminder for ones here that were to young to be affected by the consequences of 4 million unemployed.

However your reference to socialist worker party describes the old UNELECTABLE labour party....

Some say the Tories have policies. Yeh maybe maybe not. truth is all parties have policies but you never know if they will get implemented in full let alone work as expected.....That goes for the Tories every bit as much as labour or Liberal.....

The Tories will regain power sooner rather than later and that will be down to new younger voters who have no experience of the outright evil nature and selfishness of conservatism.

To be honest I don't have much regard for any of the UK parties. They are all a bunch of lying two faced control freak hypocrites.

What scares me is some young people on here think a Tory Government would somehow deliver a better Britain than Labour........You folk are deadly wrong.....

[Lauren]

Originally posted by bananarama
The Tories will regain power sooner rather than later and that will be down to new younger voters who have no experience of the outright evil nature and selfishness of conservatism.

Yes, because we're all so blinded with modern technology that we're unable to learn about the past.

How very patronising of you to even suggest that "younger voters" don't make an educated decision about whom they vote into power...I've studied British History and I'm first the admit that the Conservatives have had major downfalls in the past - but it would be downright stupid to suggest that this is due to modern policies and beliefs systems.
Out with New Left, in with New Right.

[bananarama]

Originally posted by Lauren
Originally posted by bananarama
The Tories will regain power sooner rather than later and that will be down to new younger voters who have no experience of the outright evil nature and selfishness of conservatism.

Yes, because we're all so blinded with modern technology that we're unable to learn about the past.

How very patronising of you to even suggest that "younger voters" don't make an educated decision about whom they vote into power...I've studied British History and I'm first the admit that the Conservatives have had major downfalls in the past - but it would be downright stupid to suggest that this is due to modern policies and beliefs systems.
Out with New Left, in with New Right.

No its not patronising. You cannot make an educated decision if you have not experienced the reality. Learning history is not the same as living through it..

Patronising or not wisdom comes with age and that is a reality.......

[Lauren]

Of course you can make an educated decision if you haven't experienced the reality. Have you heard of the term "verstehen" ?

Wisdom does come with age, but age does not come with wisdom.

[bananarama]

Originally posted by Lauren


Wisdom does come with age, but age does not come with wisdom.


In your case I am sure that will be very true indeed......


Here is a bit of my history. For half of my voting life I voted Tory. That was the only way as a younger person I learned the lesson that you cannot make educated decisions that are truly educated when half of what you need to know is missing. That other half is "Living the reality"

When you are young you have not had chance to do that. That is not patronising that once again is a reality.

[Lauren]

How long has it been since you voted Tory?

[bananarama]

Originally posted by Lauren
How long has it been since you voted Tory?

About five years after Thatcher was elected. Lessons were then being learned by then. Even more lessons after then.

Being in the civil service during the entire Tory period and having seen plenty of documentation not available to the public. Believe me lessons were learned.

How long did I vote tory for. Since the age of 21. I am now 66.

After giving up on the Tory I decided to try Labour....As indicated in my original post I am not well pleased with any current political entity....So i am not trying to push you into voting labour. All I am trying to show is that because you may believe this lot are bad that the other bunch will not be any better either. From my experience much worse......

As you age and try each one out you will learn the only thing any of them are interested in is control freak power trips.
You and I and all are just pawns in their power games.....

[Shaun]

Back on topic - although I am mostly conservative (but fairly near the centre), I will miss Blair - he was a great Prime Minister and I have a lot of respect for him.

[Matt]

Originally posted by bugsy2301
Back on topic - although I am mostly conservative (but fairly near the centre), I will miss Blair - he was a great Prime Minister and I have a lot of respect for him.

You do?

:rolleyes:

[spitfire]

Originally posted by bugsy2301
Back on topic - although I am mostly conservative (but fairly near the centre), I will miss Blair - he was a great Prime Minister and I have a lot of respect for him. A great PM,you are joking i guess.Why on earth will you miss him?

[Matt]

Originally posted by spitfire
Originally posted by bugsy2301
Back on topic - although I am mostly conservative (but fairly near the centre), I will miss Blair - he was a great Prime Minister and I have a lot of respect for him. A great PM,you are joking i guess.Why on earth will you miss him?

Never trust a politician...

Especially if his name is Tony Blair...

[Lauren]

bananarama... I've lived enough years on this Earth to recognise that Labour have not only not done a good job for me and my family, but they've actually done a bad job. Any alternative can only make things better.

Conservative policies have outlined things that appeal to me that Labour have abandoned in their quest to move centre. For me, that means Conservatives get my vote... they can't do any worse.

[Shaun]

Originally posted by spitfire
Originally posted by bugsy2301
Back on topic - although I am mostly conservative (but fairly near the centre), I will miss Blair - he was a great Prime Minister and I have a lot of respect for him. A great PM,you are joking i guess.Why on earth will you miss him?

I'm entitled to my own opinion thanks, and I won't be ridiculed for it.

I think the majority of Blair's actions were good - Northern Ireland, Sierra Leone, Kosovo, Iraq, and various reforms to the NHS and economy have generally made the country a better place.

And he was a confident and able leader, which is something I'm not sure I can say for Brown.

[rex3]

Well the prime reason to why i wont miss him, is maybeeeeee becuase he was in charge of thousands of DEATHS.

oh no, tho, i still think hes a good PM.... thats my opinion.

[Shaun]

The Iraqi's are killing themselves, we aren't.

Sure, we should have planned the war better, but to be honest we removed a corrupt and murderous tyrant from power and gave them democracy. It was totally unforeseen that this (almost civil war) arose, and Blair did NOT kill the civilians. Did he give instructions to our soldiers to kill them? No. They're responsible for the carnage, and they need to bloody grow up.

[rex3]

Admin deleted... insults against other forum users are against rules.

[bananarama]

Originally posted by Lauren
bananarama... I've lived enough years on this Earth to recognise that Labour have not only not done a good job for me and my family, but they've actually done a bad job. Any alternative can only make things better.

Conservative policies have outlined things that appeal to me that Labour have abandoned in their quest to move centre. For me, that means Conservatives get my vote... they can't do any worse.


:bigsmile: I have to smile. Because I know you will come sooner or later to the same conclusion about the Tories.

Can't be worse. :laugh: Sure sign of only a brief stay on the planet...

[Lauren]

Originally posted by bananarama
Originally posted by Lauren
bananarama... I've lived enough years on this Earth to recognise that Labour have not only not done a good job for me and my family, but they've actually done a bad job. Any alternative can only make things better.

Conservative policies have outlined things that appeal to me that Labour have abandoned in their quest to move centre. For me, that means Conservatives get my vote... they can't do any worse.


:bigsmile: I have to smile. Because I know you will come sooner or later to the same conclusion about the Tories.

Can't be worse. :laugh: Sure sign of only a brief stay on the planet...

The policies that apply to me, to my life... the tories are better at.

Young Carers/Carers, under the Labour government, are treat pathetically. They're forced into devoting spare time to something, and they're given around 13p/hour.... compare this, if you will, to foster carers who earn a LOT more, for doing a lot less, voluntary work.

I've been in contact with David Cameron's advisor and they sent me a very kind letter outlining their policies on such issues, and brought it up in the house of commons against Tony Blair, (whom had no answers, as per usual).

[Shaun]

In response to rex3:

I know enough not to be a jumped-up sensationalist like yourself - you have a signature asking why Arabs weren't also killed by Hitler, as if it'd have been justified to do so. I really don't think you have any right to judge anyone.

At no point was I insensitive. However, the same can't be said for Saddam Hussein, whose son, under his rule, subjected citizens to torture involving Iron Maidens, and who carried out genocide amongst the Kurds.

Whilst I understand that this whole mess wouldn't have happened if we hadn't gone there in the first place, I genuinely think that Iraq is freer. If you look in the North, democracy is prevailing and working - it is only in Baghdad and the south that the conflict between Sunnis and Shias is still ongoing.

The very fact that you ignore a member's tribute to the victims of 7/7 with some rubbish about Britain murdering the blacks and Iraqis is ridiculous - 7/7 had nothing to do with either of those two, and the Slave Trade ended 200 years ago, under an initiative TAKEN by the British.

Now try and construct an argument 'WITHOUT UNLEASHING THE FURY OF CAPS LOCK' and using pathetic insults.

[bananarama]

Originally posted by Lauren
Originally posted by bananarama
Originally posted by Lauren
bananarama... I've lived enough years on this Earth to recognise that Labour have not only not done a good job for me and my family, but they've actually done a bad job. Any alternative can only make things better.

Conservative policies have outlined things that appeal to me that Labour have abandoned in their quest to move centre. For me, that means Conservatives get my vote... they can't do any worse.


:bigsmile: I have to smile. Because I know you will come sooner or later to the same conclusion about the Tories.

Can't be worse. :laugh: Sure sign of only a brief stay on the planet...

The policies that apply to me, to my life... the tories are better at.

Young Carers/Carers, under the Labour government, are treat pathetically. They're forced into devoting spare time to something, and they're given around 13p/hour.... compare this, if you will, to foster carers who earn a LOT more, for doing a lot less, voluntary work.

I've been in contact with David Cameron's advisor and they sent me a very kind letter outlining their policies on such issues, and brought it up in the house of commons against Tony Blair, (whom had no answers, as per usual).


David Cameron's advisor. Kind letter. :bigsmile: The belly laughs are coming thick and fast now.

What is a politicians advisor!!! "A sales man" "A con man" "A man of spin". Just like Blair.........Politicians love making policies the public want to hear then like the Blair promises cannot deliver.....All a politition advisor will do is seduce you into voting for policies which being false Tory policies will fail as sure as day follows night.

At the end of the day..It's your life. Your decision. Enjoy.......

[natjake2504]

what

[Lauren]

Originally posted by bananarama
David Cameron's advisor. Kind letter. :bigsmile: The belly laughs are coming thick and fast now.


Politicians can spin, they can't lie.