What should I do

[Lewismacfarlane]

I have a friend who has been a great friend for nine years but her parents don't like her talking to me should I end the friendship

[rusticgal]

NOOO.... if you have a great friendship dont let anyone come between you. I feel for your friend though...everyone wants their parents to like their friends.

[Lewismacfarlane]

NOOO.... if you have a great friendship dont let anyone come between you. I feel for your friend though...everyone wants their parents to like their friends.

She was more than a friend we were together at one point

[Captain.Remy]

It depends on why they don’t like you. If you gave your friend heroine and now she’s not doing well, it’s understandable they don’t want her to talk to you.
But apart from that you should continue the friendship.

[Cherie]

Does it bother her that her parents don't like you? and do you know why they don't?

if she wants to be friends, then I don't see the issue, obviously if it is upsetting her and causing friction at home its a bit more difficult as you will worry it is causing her stress

9 years is a long time, is this a recent thing with the parents

[Lewismacfarlane]

They think im talking to her to much

[Lewismacfarlane]

I've never met her parents yet

[Captain.Remy]

Try to meet them for a coffee or something to clear the air and get to know each other? Communication is key and can help remove those misunderstandings or preconceived ideas. Give it a try and if unsuccessful, run away with your friend and never look back :shrug:

[The Slim Reaper]

are you sure it's not actually your friend that is looking to end the connection and is laying the groundwork through her folks?

Seems a weird thing to bring up 9 years into a friendship when you've never even met them.

Has she started a new relationship fairly recently?

[Cherie]

They think im talking to her to much

is she doing exams or something, it's none of their business really :laugh:

[Lewismacfarlane]

are you sure it's not actually your friend that is looking to end the connection and is laying the groundwork through her folks?

Seems a weird thing to bring up 9 years into a friendship when you've never even met them.

Has she started a new relationship fairly recently?

She isn't that kinda person she says im her best friend





As for the new relationship question don't think so

[Amy Jade]

Honestly I'd walk away but I'm terrible like that. I don't enjoy losing touch but if someone can't be arsed...bye.

[Oliver_W]

I think it calls for a frank conversation. Want to save your friendship? Let her know. Nine years is too much to throw away on a whim.

But it's also a long time to go without meeting someone's family tbh. Do you feel you're best friends? On Steph's show last week there was a feature about "frexits", or ending friendships. Is it possible she saw or heard of that, and you're someone she wants to trim?

[The Slim Reaper]

She isn't that kinda person she says im her best friend





As for the new relationship question don't think so

A best friend that's never met her parents?

Something seems off. I don't mean with you, either, I just mean there's information that she isn't telling you. How would even know how often/much you talk?

Of course, all this is just from a snippet, so I could well be wrong.

[user104658]

are you sure it's not actually your friend that is looking to end the connection and is laying the groundwork through her folks?

Seems a weird thing to bring up 9 years into a friendship when you've never even met them.

Has she started a new relationship fairly recently?

My daughter uses that one, "My parents said we're not allowed to be friends". :fist:

NO we pointed out that the kids treated her like **** half the time and that it wasn't OK that this kid didn't want her to have "other friends that she didn't know" (and they don't even go to the same school... so that included school friends :umm2: ) BUT we made it really clear that it was ultimately her choice.

But no she tells her she doesn't want to be her friend any more and then when the kid keeps demanding to know why, says "my parents say I'm not allowed" so now we get to be the horrible people who won't let their daughter be friends with a kid because her whole family is littered with drug addicts. HMPH.



...anyway OP how old is this friend? if she's 15+ it's a bit concerning if her parents tell her who she can and can't talk to :think:. Unless she's 16 or 17 and you're 40 or summat. In which case yes OK.

[Lewismacfarlane]

My daughter uses that one, "My parents said we're not allowed to be friends". :fist:

NO we pointed out that the kids treated her like **** half the time and that it wasn't OK that this kid didn't want her to have "other friends that she didn't know" (and they don't even go to the same school... so that included school friends :umm2: ) BUT we made it really clear that it was ultimately her choice.

But no she tells her she doesn't want to be her friend any more and then when the kid keeps demanding to know why, says "my parents say I'm not allowed" so now we get to be the horrible people who won't let their daughter be friends with a kid because her whole family is littered with drug addicts. HMPH.



...anyway OP how old is this friend? if she's 15+ it's a bit concerning if her parents tell her who she can and can't talk to :think:. Unless she's 16 or 17 and you're 40 or summat. In which case yes OK.
We're both 25



We lost touch for a while but got back in touch during lockdown

[The Slim Reaper]

I thought you were probably both around 18ish, but if she's 25, then what?

I would suggest it's one of the following things

1 - She used you through lockdown to help pass the time, but now things are getting back to normal she doesn't want the responsibility.

2) She likes you, and by referring to how much time others are noticing you're spending talking, she puts that out there without fear, to test the waters.

3) She's seeing someone else, and (either she or he) doesn't want an ex hanging around

4) There's a massive misunderstanding between the both of you that needs a conversation.

Have you been flirty at all?

[Lewismacfarlane]

I thought you were probably both around 18ish, but if she's 25, then what?

I would suggest it's one of the following things

1 - She used you through lockdown to help pass the time, but now things are getting back to normal she doesn't want the responsibility.

2) She likes you, and by referring to how much time others are noticing you're spending talking, she puts that out there without fear, to test the waters.

3) She's seeing someone else, and (either she or he) doesn't want an ex hanging around

4) There's a massive misunderstanding between the both of you that needs a conversation.

Have you been flirty at all?

Oh no I hope shs wasn't using me




I still have strong feelings for her

[The Slim Reaper]

Oh no I hope shs wasn't using me




I still have strong feelings for her

If I could give you a bit of advice, it would be that you need to have a chat with her. We can all speculate on here and make you feel great/bad depending on our replies, but there is only one person who give you a definitive answer.

Talk to her. If it's eating you up, then you need to find out the truth, even if it breaks your heart.

[Lewismacfarlane]

If I could give you a bit of advice, it would be that you need to have a chat with her. We can all speculate on here and make you feel great/bad depending on our replies, but there is only one person who give you a definitive answer.

Talk to her. If it's eating you up, then you need to find out the truth, even if it breaks your heart.

Its not just that but we are friends with the same crowd

[AnnieK]

If she is 25 that really is too old for her parent's to be sticking their oar in. I agree with Slim....there's something else going on. You will only know if uou have the conversation, however hard that is.

[The Slim Reaper]

Its not just that but we are friends with the same crowd

How did you lose touch if you're in the same friend group? How would cutting her off, as you said in OP, help that?

[Lewismacfarlane]

There is also the fact her dad is unwell

[Lewismacfarlane]

How did you lose touch if you're in the same friend group? How would cutting her off, as you said in OP, help that?

We lost touch because we stopped going to college on the same days

[Lewismacfarlane]

I think its best to not talk to her

[MTVN]

Sounds best to let this one go all things considered

[Lewismacfarlane]

Sounds best to let this one go all things considered

I don't really want to though

[AnnieK]

You need to talk to her Lewis and find out exactly what is going on. Does she want to stay friends. If so, you are both adults and need to deal with it together

[Lewismacfarlane]

You need to talk to her Lewis and find out exactly what is going on. Does she want to stay friends. If so, you are both adults and need to deal with it together

Yesterday we were talking just fine but today I've heard nothing

[Marsh.]

So sorry for your loss. :love:

[GoldHeart]

But why don't the parents approve? :conf:

[Ammi]

Yesterday we were talking just fine but today I've heard nothing

…you were talking fine yesterday, do you think that you could be overthinking a bit, Lewis because you’re aware that her parents don’t approve the friendship…?….that would be easy to do as you know there are some negative feelings that may influence her thoughts…?…I know it’s difficult because you’re both in the same friendship group as well, Lewis…but keeping worries like this inside isn’t generally a good thing and I think having a chat with her atm would probably be the best plan….on a positive, if her parents haven’t approved the friendship…she’s still remained friends with you for 9yrs…?…so it’s a pretty strong friendship that I don’t think will be influenced very easily…?….we are all just now experiencing some freedoms we haven’t had so much either so maybe she’s just catching up with other people as well and a bit more socially active…try not to worry and just approach a gentle chat with her…:hug:…

[Lewismacfarlane]

Its looking now like shes deleated me from social media

[thesheriff443]

There is a lot more going on in this friendship relationship thats not been said because it doesn’t add up.

I’m being a wanker here but are you or you friend on the spectrum autism Asperger’s ?
I’m saying this because of the parents being involved in a 25 year olds life.

[Vicky.]

I don't really want to though

Well then don't tbh. It's nowt to do with her parents really. How old are yas? I could understand a bit it you were 10. But something's a bit off to me here especially if you have never met them and there are no problems going on.

[thesheriff443]

Well then don't tbh. It's nowt to do with her parents really. How old are yas? I could understand a bit it you were 10. But something's a bit off to me here especially if you have never met them and there are no problems going on.

It’s a red flag for me concerning the parents, good parents want what’s best for their kids as we all do for them to be involved means something is not right.

[Ammi]

…you can try to contact her to try for a level of communication/explanation, Lewis…or maybe someone else in the friendship group that you have a particularly high level of trust with…?…but I also think that you may have to sadly start accepting that the friendship has no future and that it ending will lead you to opening new friendships as well and to feel happier within yourself….it’s causing you emotional uncertainty and it’s good for you to take steps in directions which will change that and allow other people into your life…:hug:…

[Lewismacfarlane]

It’s a red flag for me concerning the parents, good parents want what’s best for their kids as we all do for them to be involved means something is not right.

They even took her phone off of her

[Lewismacfarlane]

…you can try to contact her to try for a level of communication/explanation, Lewis…or maybe someone else in the friendship group that you have a particularly high level of trust with…?…but I also think that you may have to sadly start accepting that the friendship has no future and that it ending will lead you to opening new friendships as well and to feel happier within yourself….it’s causing you emotional uncertainty and it’s good for you to take steps in directions which will change that and allow other people into your life…:hug:…

I really don't want the friendship to end

[thesheriff443]

They even took her phone off of her

So the question is why?

[Ammi]

I really don't want the friendship to end

…I understand that, Lewis …but a friendship isn’t a ‘one person’ thing and atm it’s not something being pursued by her as well …so maybe just let it rest and give it space atm…

[Lewismacfarlane]

…I understand that, Lewis …but a friendship isn’t a ‘one person’ thing and atm it’s not something being pursued by her as well …so maybe just let it rest and give it space atm…

It's hard though

[Lewismacfarlane]

So the question is why?

She was still on her phone at 2 in the morning sometimes

[thesheriff443]

It's hard though

Straight question have you become obsessed with here?
Can you go through a day without you feeling the need to contact her?

[Ammi]

It's hard though

…I know and I feel for you…:hug:…but it will be harder I think if you don’t give that space and resting time for both of you ….we can’t force things that aren’t happening and it isn’t just your friendship but maybe some family issues as well that she needs to work out…?….a friendship is stepping back and allowing her to do that as well if that’s what now allows….

[thesheriff443]

…I know and I feel for you…:hug:…but it will be harder I think if you don’t give that space and resting time for both of you ….we can’t force things that aren’t happening and it isn’t just your friendship but maybe some family issues as well that she needs to work out…?….a friendship is stepping back and allowing her to do that as well if that’s what now allows….

Some great advice.

[Lewismacfarlane]

Straight question have you become obsessed with here?
Can you go through a day without you feeling the need to contact her?

Im not obsessed with her no

[thesheriff443]

Im not obsessed with her no

Then you need take a step back and let her have some space.

[Lewismacfarlane]

I just hope shes still my friend

[AnnieK]

As sherrif said give her some time and space and if she reconnects with you that is great...if not, sadly it could be time to accept that that friendship is over :hug:

[Ammi]

I just hope shes still my friend

…we don’t keep all of our friendships through life, none of us do …but we don’t tend to lose mutually healthy friendships either…it’s a time to be strong, Lewis…and if she needs and time, to allow for that because that’s the way to be able to see if it indeed is a long term healthy friendship…we have to step back to see these things at times…

[user104658]

She was still on her phone at 2 in the morning sometimes


She’s 25… if she wants to get jacked up on 10 espressos and stay in her phone for 2 days straight that’s none of her parent’s business. I’m afraid the only options here are that either she’s lying about it being her parents and she’s just making excuses, OR her parents are quite frankly worryingly controlling to the point of it being borderline abusive :umm2:.

My advice either way; if you’re always the one who initiates contact, stop messaging her first and see if she messages you at all. If she never messages you again then - and I hate to be blunt here - but she’s only been messaging at all to be polite. If she WANTS to talk to you she’ll send you a message.

I’d also suggest one of two things might be going on here. 1) you have stronger feelings for her than you’re saying and she’s noticed… or at least 2) she for whatever reason THINKS you have stronger feelings for her than you do.

Messaging back and forward every day is a lot for most adult “just friendships” honestly.

[Lewismacfarlane]

I understand that her father is unwell maybe that might have something to do with it

[user104658]

…we don’t keep all of our friendships through life, none of us do …but we don’t tend to lose mutually healthy friendships either…it’s a time to be strong, Lewis…and if she needs and time, to allow for that because that’s the way to be able to see if it indeed is a long term healthy friendship…we have to step back to see these things at times…


I wouldn’t even say we don’t lose mutually healthy friendships. Not “at random” obviously but with things like big life changes/relocations. I kept in touch with several good friends from uni for years after leaving… but it’s a good 5 years since I spoke to any of them. Now I’m sure if I ran into one of them we’d still in fact “be friends” and have loads to talk about, but yeah… over time people drift. We’ve all moved all around the country (and world). That’s just life.

[Ammi]

…I think in the end though, Lewis…whatever things she has to focus on with her family right now…it’s to step back and leave space for her to do that….

[user104658]

I understand that her father is unwell maybe that might have something to do with it


Again I’d say you’re over-thinking it, any personal or family reasons aren’t really any of your business if you’re just friends. Are you SURE you just see it as a friendship? Because honestly the way you’re talking about it, and the importance you’re placing on it, makes it sound like that’s not the whole story…

[Amy Jade]

She's 25 and her parents decide who she's friends with and take her phone away? sorry she sounds really immature.

I'm younger than her and my mum would never do either, sounds like she needs to grow up and move out if her parents are that overbearing.

[Lewismacfarlane]

I just sèe this as a friendship shes like a sister to me

[user104658]

I just sèe this as a friendship shes like a sister to me


If she sees it the same way she’ll also make the effort to stay in contact. If she doesn’t well then it’s not really what you want it to be and by clinging to it, all you’re doing is stopping yourself finding the relationships that are genuinely what you want.

[user104658]

She's 25 and her parents decide who she's friends with and take her phone away? sorry she sounds really immature.

I'm younger than her and my mum would never do either, sounds like she needs to grow up and move out if her parents are that overbearing.


Honestly it’s not something I can even imagine, at 25 I had a one-year-old and lived 4 hours drive from both of my parents :joker:.

Also they had little to zero interest in my private life from about the age of 12 :umm2:. NOT that I’m saying that’s normal either of course.

[Lewismacfarlane]

A friend has asked her if everything is ok between us but hasn't heard anything

[thesheriff443]

Honestly it’s not something I can even imagine, at 25 I had a one-year-old and lived 4 hours drive from both of my parents :joker:.

Also they had little to zero interest in my private life from about the age of 12 :umm2:. NOT that I’m saying that’s normal either of course.

That’s why I’ve asked about her being on the spectrum because experience tells me for parents to be that involved there is two possibilities
One, she has her parents in her life because she needs them
Two they they are control freaks

[Lewismacfarlane]

That’s why I’ve asked about her being on the spectrum because experience tells me for parents to be that involved there is two possibilities
One, she has her parents in her life because she needs them
Two they they are control freaks

I never thought of her being on the spectrum she has mentioned before about special needs

[Oliver_W]

At 25 you can have a spouse, a couple of kids, and a nice house with a mortgage. Just because someone still lives at home, doesn't give their parents the right to dictate their friendships, especially when they don't even go and visit them.

[Lewismacfarlane]

I kinda think im in the wrong here

[Ammi]

I kinda think im in the wrong here

…awwww, you’re not in the wrong, Lewis…:hug:…you’re concerned about a friendship that you value and don’t want to lose…but friendships are not always in our control by the very thing that there others and their situations and complications to consider in friendships as well…it’s not a thing of right or wrong with this, I don’t thing….I think it’s more just a friendship that may need to have time and space and patience right now to allow its future to be clearer for both of you…it’s a time that can focus on other friendships as well atm…don’t think right/wrong…think opportunities for friendship developments while this one sits a while and finds its own path…..:hug:…

[Amy Jade]

Honestly you're not wrong for trying to keep a friendship going but if she has special needs and her parents aren't okay with the friendship I think it's best to take a step back.

I'd be so over it if I were you, far too complicated for me to feel any investment, I hate friendships that you have to worry about this much.

[Amy Jade]

I just realised I sound like such an ice queen but I'm honestly not, I've just got a great group of friends and we are all really easy going and I can't be arsed with friendships you have to fight for

[Lewismacfarlane]

The other day we even spoke about meeting up soon after lockdown

[user104658]

I kinda think im in the wrong here

It's not about being in the wrong really but friendships are two-sided and you can't create more of a friendship than the other person wants :shrug:.

The other day we even spoke about meeting up soon after lockdown

Hmmm... do you mean meet up again, or have you actually never met this girl in person?

[Lewismacfarlane]

It's not about being in the wrong really but friendships are two-sided and you can't create more of a friendship than the other person wants :shrug:.



Hmmm... do you mean meet up again, or have you actually never met this girl in person?

Yeah i mean meet up again and have a catch up

[user104658]

Yeah i mean meet up again and have a catch up

Ahh good I was about to declare catfish :joker:.

So you had talked about meeting up after lockdown, and then soon after she started talking about "not being allowed" to talk to you so much?

[Lewismacfarlane]

Ahh good I was about to declare catfish :joker:.

So you had talked about meeting up after lockdown, and then soon after she started talking about "not being allowed" to talk to you so much?

We spoke about meeting up after lockdown but since then havent heard from her

[thesheriff443]

I never thought of her being on the spectrum she has mentioned before about special needs

Then that answers a lot of questions about her and her parents

If she has special needs then her and her parents are going to have a very close relationship

That most people wouldn’t understand.

[Lewismacfarlane]

Then that answers a lot of questions about her and her parents

If she has special needs then her and her parents are going to have a very close relationship

That most people wouldn’t understand.

I don't disagree with that but why make a judgement of not liking a child's friend before meeting them

[thesheriff443]

I don't disagree with that but why make a judgement of not liking a child's friend before meeting them

You refer to her as child in the above sentence, she maybe 25 but she might still be considered a child by her parents.

They are probably just trying to protect her.

[Lewismacfarlane]

You refer to her as child in the above sentence, she maybe 25 but she might still be considered a child by her parents.

They are probably just trying to protect her.

I know its just upsetting me right now

[thesheriff443]

I know its just upsetting me right now

Unfortunately that’s life , but if she has special needs it explains a lot and you should not be too hard on her her parents and your self.

[Lewismacfarlane]

Unfortunately that’s life , but if she has special needs it explains a lot and you should not be too hard on her her parents and your self.

Am a being hard on her parents

[thesheriff443]

Am a being hard on her parents

If you think they are being unfair it’s because she is their daughter who they still see as a child and not because they think you are a bad friend.

[Lewismacfarlane]

If you think they are being unfair it’s because she is their daughter who they still see as a child and not because they think you are a bad friend.

I didn't once say they were unfair

[user104658]

To be honest I have a suspicion you talked about meeting up, she got nervous and now she’s trying to take a step back and the parents thing is an excuse. If they’ve not had an issue with it for 9 years it seems a bit bizarre they’d suddenly take issue now.

A couple of potential reasons really. Maybe she does see it as more than a friendship but thinks you don’t and is nervous about that.

Maybe she DOES just see it as a friendship and thinks you want more and is nervous about THAT.

Or a hundred other reasons really.

I think at this point, as you are both adults (I find the whole parents thing and referring to her as their “child” a bit odd for people in their 20’s, I can’t lie about that) the only thing you can really do is have a mature and open conversation about it, and make your own stance clear (that you really do just see her as a good friend, if that is indeed the case :suspect: ) and see what she has to say. You have to do it yourself, not via a mutual friend. You’re not 15.

[thesheriff443]

I didn't once say they were unfair

At one point it came across as you thought it was the parents that where stopping her from being your friend

[thesheriff443]

To be honest I have a suspicion you talked about meeting up, she got nervous and now she’s trying to take a step back and the parents thing is an excuse. If they’ve not had an issue with it for 9 years it seems a bit bizarre they’d suddenly take issue now.

A couple of potential reasons really. Maybe she does see it as more than a friendship but thinks you don’t and is nervous about that.

Maybe she DOES just see it as a friendship and thinks you want more and is nervous about THAT.

Or a hundred other reasons really.

I think at this point, as you are both adults (I find the whole parents thing and referring to her as their “child” a bit odd for people in their 20’s, I can’t lie about that) the only thing you can really do is have a mature and open conversation about it, and make your own stance clear (that you really do just see her as a good friend, if that is indeed the case :suspect: ) and see what she has to say. You have to do it yourself, not via a mutual friend. You’re not 15.

But she still may have the mindset of a child even though she is 25 I would of thought you would be more up on that

[user104658]

Honestly I would say even if she is on the spectrum she is clearly not significantly disabled, she is still an adult and she still has the right to autonomy. Obviously they want to protect her and absolutely should be protecting her from actual RISK, I.e. dodgy people or people who are trying to take advantage, but I don’t think that should extend to not letting her conduct her own friendships. If she is an adult and clearly capable of engaging in adult communication then she doesn’t have a serious learning disability that would warrant them having strict control over every aspect of her life.

That’s just personal opinion as the parent of an LD child though. Independence should be encouraged, so long as there’s no actual obvious danger. Like if you were a much older man or something.

[thesheriff443]

I have a 26 year old that is worldly wise but still loves buying toys and comic books suitable for kids on infant school

[Lewismacfarlane]

I think this has been a problem for a while with her parent's

[user104658]

Honestly if she DOESN’T have a disability, and what she’s saying is true, I’m a bit concerned about these parents :think:

[thesheriff443]

I think this has been a problem for a while with her parent's

To be totally honest no one on here can give definite advice because we just don’t know the full story.

Ammi gave you same great advice like others on here

Give the girl some space and see what happens because if you keep on seeking her out that may destroy any possibility of a friendship.

[Lewismacfarlane]

Ive decided not to text her first and wait until she gets back to me

[Parmy]

You should speak to her parents like the grown up you are.

[Lewismacfarlane]

Just to fill people in i think shes now blocked me on social media

[thesheriff443]

Just to fill people in i think shes now blocked me on social media

She either has or she hasn’t
If she has a then that’s time to move on.

[Lewismacfarlane]

She either has or she hasn’t
If she has a then that’s time to move on.

Im sad but i think its for the best

[ThomasC]

There is a lot more going on in this friendship relationship thats not been said because it doesn’t add up.

I’m being a wanker here but are you or you friend on the spectrum autism Asperger’s ?
I’m saying this because of the parents being involved in a 25 year olds life.

Ridiculous.

To be on the spectrum you have to meet three criteria, communication, interaction and imagination. To have Asperger's you also have to meet that criteria, but it is not normally associated with a learning disability.

I don't see how you have come to that assumption based on being involved in someone's life who is 25 years old. Bizarre.

OP - This is a sad situation.

She doesn't like you in the way you want her to like you and my STRONG guess is that she has given you hints and you haven't taken them. All the rest is just bluff and excuses.

You are obsessing and overthinking. We've all been there to varying degrees.

I would suggest getting a hobby if you haven't already and do something to take your mind off of this situation.

She might be 25, but she's doing what girls do when they're not interested, albeit they probably wouldn't use their parents as a reason. You just haven't got the hint or been freaked enough to run the other way.

[thesheriff443]

Ridiculous.

To be on the spectrum you have to meet three criteria, communication, interaction and imagination. To have Asperger's you also have to meet that criteria, but it is not normally associated with a learning disability.

I don't see how you have come to that assumption based on being involved in someone's life who is 25 years old. Bizarre.

OP - This is a sad situation.

She doesn't like you in the way you want her to like you and my STRONG guess is that she has given you hints and you haven't taken them. All the rest is just bluff and excuses.

You are obsessing and overthinking. We've all been there to varying degrees.

I would suggest getting a hobby if you haven't already and do something to take your mind off of this situation.

She might be 25, but she's doing what girls do when they're not interested, albeit they probably wouldn't use their parents as a reason. You just haven't got the hint or been freaked enough to run the other way.

With all do respect I have a daughter who is 26 and has autism, for parents to be taking the phone away from a 25 year old that person must have issues in there life because parents don’t take phones away from 25 year old and 25 years would not let their parents take their phone away

[Crimson Dynamo]

is it me?

[ThomasC]

With all do respect I have a daughter who is 26 and has autism, for parents to be taking the phone away from a 25 year old that person must have issues in there life because parents don’t take phones away from 25 year old and 25 years would not let their parents take their phone away

And with all due to respect, there is possibly a multitude of reasons why, if it is true and I have big doubts, they would.

You seem to have put 2 and 2 together and come up with 22.

[thesheriff443]

And with all due to respect, there is possibly a multitude of reasons why, if it is true and I have big doubts, they would.

You seem to have put 2 and 2 together and come up with 22.

From what we where told I have come up with my opinion

[ThomasC]

From what we where told I have come up with my opinion

Yeah that's fair enough.

Like I say though, for someone to have an official diagnosis of Autism or Aspergers they have to meet the triard of impairments. Difficulties in communication, social imagination and social interaction. Whilst she may well have, what has been described could be anything. She might meet one, but not the other, in which case she would have pervasive development disorder not otherwise specified or A typical.

She might also have mental health problems. She might have suffered early trauma, neglect, been witness to substance abuse, domestic violence... she might have global development delay or some form of learning disability, she may have lived a sheltered life, she might be vulnerable due to z,y,z.

The point I'm making is that there is a whole dictionary of conditions which could fit what has been described.

I think if you tend to know more about one condition, it might be your go to without having thought more holistically about it. I understand why you would in this case, but would suggest you are likely to be way off the mark. Who knows.

[thesheriff443]

Yeah that's fair enough.

Like I say though, for someone to have an official diagnosis of Autism or Aspergers they have to meet the triard of impairments. Difficulties in communication, social imagination and social interaction. Whilst she may well have, what has been described could be anything. She might meet one, but not the other, in which case she would have pervasive development disorder not otherwise specified or A typical.

She might also have mental health problems. She might have suffered early trauma, neglect, been witness to substance abuse, domestic violence... she might have global development delay or some form of learning disability, she may have lived a sheltered life, she might be vulnerable due to z,y,z.

The point I'm making is that there is a whole dictionary of conditions which could fit what has been described.

I think if you tend to know more about one condition, it might be your go to without having thought more holistically about it. I understand why you would in this case, but would suggest you are likely to be way off the mark. Who knows.

You say I’m likely to be way off the mark but who knows

It’s just thread on tibb I’m not handing out professional advice just chewing the fat.

[ThomasC]

You say I’m likely to be way off the mark but who knows

It’s just thread on tibb I’m not handing out professional advice just chewing the fat.

True.

Hope your daughter is managing with her Autism well.

If you ever need any help let me know :blush:

[user104658]

Yeah that's fair enough.

Like I say though, for someone to have an official diagnosis of Autism or Aspergers they have to meet the triard of impairments. Difficulties in communication, social imagination and social interaction. Whilst she may well have, what has been described could be anything. She might meet one, but not the other, in which case she would have pervasive development disorder not otherwise specified or A typical.

Sorry Thomas but I’m afraid this is completely outdated, incorrect, and not at all the absolute diagnostic criteria for ASD. I have a 9 year old daughter who has been diagnosed ASD with learning disability since she was 4, and does not fit that criteria. Her diagnosis is autism - not PDD nor atypical. I can show you her letter of diagnosis if you want :joker:. She also attends specialist ASD school provision with multiple children who would not meet the “triad of impairments” criteria. Current ASD diagnosis by anyone who actually knows what they’re doing is person-centred and holistic, not checkbox-based and (to be blunt) the misconception of “required features” is outdated and offensive. The social features of autism in females is markedly different to males.

I should also mention that my wife is a registered mental health professional and has worked extensively alongside CAMHS. While it can be DIFFICULT to get a diagnosis of ASD without associated learning disability, anyone who insists that certain features “must” be present is either misinformed or simply making excuses, or un-confident about making an executive decision on diagnosis. An experienced paediatrician 100% can sign off on an autism diagnosis without checkbox criteria.

[edit] I forgot she’s 9 now not 8 :laugh: :umm2:

[user104658]

To add to that though, back on thread topic, I’m afraid I suspect the parents thing was an excuse in this case and she had some other reason. Not much to be done really, always a shame to lose a friendship but time to move on I’d say.

[ThomasC]

Sorry Thomas but I’m afraid this is completely outdated, incorrect, and not at all the absolute diagnostic criteria for ASD. I have a 9 year old daughter who has been diagnosed ASD with learning disability since she was 4, and does not fit that criteria. Her diagnosis is autism - not PDD nor atypical. I can show you her letter of diagnosis if you want :joker:. She also attends specialist ASD school provision with multiple children who would not meet the “triad of impairments” criteria. Current ASD diagnosis by anyone who actually knows what they’re doing is person-centred and holistic, not checkbox-based and (to be blunt) the misconception of “required features” is outdated and offensive. The social features of autism in females is markedly different to males.

I should also mention that my wife is a registered mental health professional and has worked extensively alongside CAMHS. While it can be DIFFICULT to get a diagnosis of ASD without associated learning disability, anyone who insists that certain features “must” be present is either misinformed or simply making excuses, or un-confident about making an executive decision on diagnosis. An experienced paediatrician 100% can sign off on an autism diagnosis without checkbox criteria.

[edit] I forgot she’s 9 now not 8 :laugh: :umm2:

Well I can't be bothered to screenshot literature for you. Whilst certain terminology is phased out, during assessment there are three main categories it is assessed on and as I'm sure you know there is no set test, it's subjective based on the assessor. It's not offensive at all, don't start getting all woke. In an ideal world there would be no labels. Just like high and low, things are phased out and it's now a continuim. If you've met one autistic person then you've met one autistic person.

Well you'd probably get a diagnosis of Asperger's. That's normally the difference.

And checkbox criteria. I'm not going on about that. It's like dementia, there's 3 types, but dementia is the umbrella.

[ThomasC]

https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/autism/hcp-dsm.html

DSM 5

[ThomasC]

https://www.autism.org.uk/advice-and-guidance/topics/diagnosis/diagnostic-assessment/adults

[user104658]

https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/autism/hcp-dsm.html

DSM 5


This is US diagnostic criteria which is hyper-medicalised and rigid because of health insurance implications. Note early and repeated use of “must”. There is a reason for that (financial). Comparatively;

https://www.scottishautism.org/about-autism/about-autism/autism-diagnosis

Notably;

”These examples are intended to be indicative rather than prescriptive and are given to illustrate the diversity within each area of the triad across the spectrum. It is also important to bear in mind that the impact from each area is not distinct”

And, more importantly,

”Development and debate in relation to diagnostic criteria is useful and necessary in terms of enhancing the current body of knowledge available to clinicians. From a practice perspective, particularly for novice practitioners, ambiguity can make an already complex condition appear even more complicated. Establishing criteria is clearly important, however diagnosis relies on accurate assessment, understanding and interpretation as individual presentation is rarely straightforward and can often be subtle.”

In other words, unlike the strict diagnostic requirements of insurance-based healthcare in the US, diagnostic criteria is a diagnostic tool in the UK and a holistic diagnosis can absolutely be made, with diagnostic criteria in mind, but not rigid nor essential to diagnosis. I’ve seen plenty of parents fobbed off with it, of course, which is why as a parent of a child with special needs it’s important to have your **** on point.

[user104658]

https://www.autism.org.uk/advice-and-guidance/topics/diagnosis/diagnostic-assessment/adults


“There are several diagnostic tools available, and diagnosticians aren't obliged to use a specific tool.”

Again immediately clear that diagnosis in the UK differs to the US, being a holistic assessment without rigid requirements.

[ThomasC]

This is US diagnostic criteria which is hyper-medicalised and rigid because of health insurance implications. Note early and repeated use of “must”. There is a reason for that (financial). Comparatively;

https://www.scottishautism.org/about-autism/about-autism/autism-diagnosis

Notably;

”These examples are intended to be indicative rather than prescriptive and are given to illustrate the diversity within each area of the triad across the spectrum. It is also important to bear in mind that the impact from each area is not distinct”

And, more importantly,

”Development and debate in relation to diagnostic criteria is useful and necessary in terms of enhancing the current body of knowledge available to clinicians. From a practice perspective, particularly for novice practitioners, ambiguity can make an already complex condition appear even more complicated. Establishing criteria is clearly important, however diagnosis relies on accurate assessment, understanding and interpretation as individual presentation is rarely straightforward and can often be subtle.”

In other words, unlike the strict diagnostic requirements of insurance-based healthcare in the US, diagnostic criteria is a diagnostic tool in the UK and a holistic diagnosis can absolutely be made, with diagnostic criteria in mind, but not rigid nor essential to diagnosis. I’ve seen plenty of parents fobbed off with it, of course, which is why as a parent of a child with special needs it’s important to have your **** on point.

Yes as it says, interpretation!! It's subjective, there's no such test.

And social imagination will include such things as restrictive and repetitive movements/tasks etc. 3 main headings broken down into so many traits you see on the spectrum.

I've worked with lots of Autistic people both in this country and abroad.

I'm not depriving anyone of any diagnostic. You need the label for the support, benefits, SOEN, SENCO, etc. DISCO etc, diagnostic tools will look at those main 3 categories.

I'm sure your daughter has varying traits, as does everyone on the spectrum....but I think you'll find that along the line they will fall into those categories somewhere.

[ThomasC]

Would you really give someone a diagnosis of autism if they came into your clinic with only social communication issues? Baring in mind they could be introverted, Shy, withdrawn, depressed and dyslexic?

And then again, social interaction?

Then jump to the conclusion it's Autism?

My point still stands and you'll find that given the correct assessment tools and knowledge of the assessor that they will draw from that to make a diagnosis and could conclude that they don't meet the criteria for an autistic diagnosis.

However, to eat my own words. Yes, it's not completely rigid....that has changed somewhat, but I would expect an assessor to find issues in all those areas, varying degrees, or to opt for a different diagnosis.

[user104658]

No, and I would probably agree on balance that autism is probably over-diagnosed, partly because of over-stretched services using it as a catch-all for more nuanced developmental conditions. But sadly CAHMS is so swamped and under funded that the time and resources are just not there. A separate issue really.

The main issue with the diagnostic triad though is that one aspect could present far less obviously than others, and that becomes more pronounced with age.

My own daughter was easier to get diagnosed because she has other associates learning disabilities, functional communication problems rather than behavioural, etc. BUT (to give examples) she actively seeks social interaction, is highly creative and engages in advanced imaginative play, despises routine and enjoys novelty… things that are generally contrary to the diagnostic criteria.

I do suspect that her “full” diagnosis is probably more complex if we were to investigate further, but we’ve not gone down that route as yet, as there’s not really been a need to. The main point I suppose is that her diagnosis IS, on paper, “just plain autism” and it was made by an experienced paediatric consultant holistically just before her 4th birthday, and was not strongly linked at all to the written diagnostic criteria. Unfortunately the “most common” route for kids in the UK is going undiagnosed until nursery or even early primary school and then having to go via the education system and CAHMS which is just… “not ideal” as things are currently.

[Ammi]

Im sad but i think its for the best

..thank you for the update, Lewis…I think that you’ve made the only decision that you could for you to be able move on…it doesn’t feel like a friendship that’s meant to be atm and not in your control to change that in any way…there are so many things that you can enjoy and control so just enjoy those…:hug:…

[ThomasC]

No, and I would probably agree on balance that autism is probably over-diagnosed, partly because of over-stretched services using it as a catch-all for more nuanced developmental conditions. But sadly CAHMS is so swamped and under funded that the time and resources are just not there. A separate issue really.

The main issue with the diagnostic triad though is that one aspect could present far less obviously than others, and that becomes more pronounced with age.

My own daughter was easier to get diagnosed because she has other associates learning disabilities, functional communication problems rather than behavioural, etc. BUT (to give examples) she actively seeks social interaction, is highly creative and engages in advanced imaginative play, despises routine and enjoys novelty… things that are generally contrary to the diagnostic criteria.

I do suspect that her “full” diagnosis is probably more complex if we were to investigate further, but we’ve not gone down that route as yet, as there’s not really been a need to. The main point I suppose is that her diagnosis IS, on paper, “just plain autism” and it was made by an experienced paediatric consultant holistically just before her 4th birthday, and was not strongly linked at all to the written diagnostic criteria. Unfortunately the “most common” route for kids in the UK is going undiagnosed until nursery or even early primary school and then having to go via the education system and CAHMS which is just… “not ideal” as things are currently.

Pervasive development disorder not otherwise specified was phased out not too long ago. Just double checked as things change constantly. However, this term only really came about in 2013 and for me is a good one because it gives the assessor a diagnosis where someone would meet some, but not all of a,y,z. Having said that I do believe it needs to be flexible, hence the ‘continuim’ because there are such varying degrees presented in so many differen5 ways.

You were lucky to get that diagnosis so quickly. IT can take up to 5 years.

Don’t get me started on underfunding. It really is dire. I see the pain and hear the pain a lot. I have to sit in meetings, where families are at crisis point and no one really has any options or you just repeat what has already been said, go through tick lists..... the crooks of it lies within funding. There aren’t the services or people to provide the needed help.

[Lewismacfarlane]

Im sad now that I've lost this friend

[ThomasC]

Im sad now that I've lost this friend

You need other avenues to explore.

You are focusing too much energy on this one person.

Do you have any hobbies or things you enjoy? Do you have other friends?

[Lewismacfarlane]

You need other avenues to explore.

You are focusing too much energy on this one person.

Do you have any hobbies or things you enjoy? Do you have other friends?

I have loads of friends

[ThomasC]

I have loads of friends

Can you try and arrange an outing to take your mind off of this?

You’ll look back soon and wonder what all the worrying was about.

[Lewismacfarlane]

Can you try and arrange an outing to take your mind off of this?

You’ll look back soon and wonder what all the worrying was about.

Im meant to be catching up with a friend soon actually

[Ammi]

…as Thomas has said, that’s a good channel for your emotional energy into other friendships, Lewis ….it’s ok to feel a bit sad over a lost friendship but it does give an opportunity also for other friendships to grow and become closer as well…?…and for opening possibilities…I hope you have a lovely catch up with your friends…:hug:…

…I think this last year, we’ve all had so much thought time and not enough contact time with our closest people and that’s about to change so enjoy all of those much needed catch ups…

[user104658]

You were lucky to get that diagnosis so quickly. IT can take up to 5 years.



We weren’t lucky, we were persistent and privileged (which I suppose is a form of luck, really) enough to be already well educated and well read when we took our concerns to a paediatric diagnostician. Though I suppose there’s also an element of luck in having one who was open to listening. Her verbal communication issues are very obvious though which makes things “easier”, much harder for people to get a diagnosis when there isn’t a “very visible” impairment like that, and as I said even worse when it’s got to the point of battling through the education system and CAHMS to even get near a consultant.

We had all of our i’s dotted and t’s crossed long before she even started nursery (they actually got some major upgrades because they got a nice big chunk of funding for her, lol) and have never needed a sniff of CAHMS. Which I am very glad about because it seems like it can be an absolute minefield.

[arista]

Im sad now that I've lost this friend


OK
but you have many others

[ThomasC]

We weren’t lucky, we were persistent and privileged (which I suppose is a form of luck, really) enough to be already well educated and well read when we took our concerns to a paediatric diagnostician. Though I suppose there’s also an element of luck in having one who was open to listening. Her verbal communication issues are very obvious though which makes things “easier”, much harder for people to get a diagnosis when there isn’t a “very visible” impairment like that, and as I said even worse when it’s got to the point of battling through the education system and CAHMS to even get near a consultant.

We had all of our i’s dotted and t’s crossed long before she even started nursery (they actually got some major upgrades because they got a nice big chunk of funding for her, lol) and have never needed a sniff of CAHMS. Which I am very glad about because it seems like it can be an absolute minefield.

Good to hear.

Yeah, a minefield indeed.