The term "African American" is very problematic

[Denver]

Ive been watching a lot of tiktoks of Black Americans and I don't understand the obsession with the Americans calling every black person African American? A huge percentage of the American race have not had an African relative in hundreds of years and a lot of them have no idea who there relatives are and don't follow African Traditions, Cultures, speak the language etc but think they own Africa.

And let's not start on the fact that Americans try to cancel White Africans because God forbid anyone who is black being born in Africa is not allowed to be African yet they are more African then most of the Black race if America most of who never traveled to the any African countries or could even name 5 of them.

Anyway the whole point of this post is to just discuss how toxic and problematic the American Culture is where everyone thinks they own the world when they don't even own a pot to piss in

[Denver]

So basically people really need to stop associating nationality with skin colour as they are 2 serperate things

[Crimson Dynamo]

Maybe just concentrate on the UK and let other countries work stuff out for themselves?

[Livia]

I'm pretty sure that "toxic and problematic" term was coined by Jesse Jackson.

[Marsh.]

where everyone thinks they own the world when they don't even own a pot to piss in

Aren't you being as presumptuous and generalising about an entire nation of people based on a minority, the same way you're criticising the Americans who get terminology wrong?

[Redway]

And aside from that no one calls white Americans (who aren’t indigenous to America either) European Americans. I agree.

[Livia]

"A group of black leaders, including the Rev. Jesse Jackson, says members of their race would prefer to be called African-Americans rather than blacks.

″Just as we were called colored, but were not that, and then Negro, but not that, to be called black is just as baseless,″ Jackson said at a news conference Monday after a meeting of the black leaders.

″To be called African-Americans has cultural integrity,″ he said. ″It puts us in our proper historical context. Every ethnic group in this country has a reference to some land base, some historical cultural base. African- Americans have hit that level of cultural maturity.″

[Crimson Dynamo]

Oop

[Denver]

"A group of black leaders, including the Rev. Jesse Jackson, says members of their race would prefer to be called African-Americans rather than blacks.

″Just as we were called colored, but were not that, and then Negro, but not that, to be called black is just as baseless,″ Jackson said at a news conference Monday after a meeting of the black leaders.

″To be called African-Americans has cultural integrity,″ he said. ″It puts us in our proper historical context. Every ethnic group in this country has a reference to some land base, some historical cultural base. African- Americans have hit that level of cultural maturity.″

It's bull **** though as black is a race African is a nationality and if you are born outside of an African country then you are not African, you have African descendants but are not African

[Livia]

It's bull **** though as black is a race African is a nationality and if you are born outside of an African country then you are not African, you have African descendants but are not African

How about Italian Americans? Or Irish Americans?

[Denver]

How about Italian Americans? Or Irish Americans?

Not even a thing, just because your grandfather 8x removed was born in Ireland it doesn't make you Irish and you are only seen as part of another nationality if its your birth grand parents or parents born there

[Livia]

Not even a thing, just because your grandfather 8x removed was born in Ireland it doesn't make you Irish and you are only seen as part of another nationality if its your birth grand parents or parents born there

What do you mean, not even a thing? Are you American? People take their heritage quite seriously there. Did you even read what Jesse Jackson said?

[Denver]

What do you mean, not even a thing? Are you American? People take their heritage quite seriously there. Did you even read what Jesse Jackson said?

If you Irish 10x removed and never been to Ireland or follow any culture and live a normal American life style then no you are not Irish what so ever, your sister descendants are bit not you and alot of the time they are very condescending to the nationality they wish to claim

[Livia]

If you Irish 10x removed and never been to Ireland or follow any culture and live a normal American life style then no you are not Irish what so ever, your sister descendants are bit not you and alot of the time they are very condescending to the nationality they wish to claim

The article went on to say...

Many of the leaders at the meeting, including representatives of the National Black Republicans Council, the National Black County Officials and the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, said the term African-Americans would be a psychological lift.

The Rev. Willie Barrow, president of Operation PUSH, said she will start using the term immediately.

″I’m African-American just like the Polish are Polish-American and Italians are Italian-American,″ she said. ″It’s something we’ve all agreed upon and it’s just great.″

Google it, it's a good read.

[Denver]

What do you mean, not even a thing? Are you American? People take their heritage quite seriously there. Did you even read what Jesse Jackson said?

Also in regards to heritage of 'african' Americans because of the way the slave trade went they know nothing about their descendents or where they even came from in Africa so you can't take a heritage you have no idea about seriously, Africa is a continent with over 50 countries and if you can't state what country you are from how can you claim to be african

[Livia]

Also in regards to heritage of 'african' Americans because of the way the slave trade went they know nothing about their descendents or where they even came from in Africa so you can't take a heritage you have no idea about seriously, Africa is a continent with over 50 countries and if you can't state what country you are from how can you claim to be african

I can't see why you're so twisted out of shape over a term chosen by black leaders. If Black people in the USA decide that they don't want to use this term anymore, then they should go about changing it. Until then I'm quite happy however they choose to describe themselves.

[Denver]

I can't see why you're so twisted out of shape over a term chosen by black leaders. If Black people in the USA decide that they don't want to use this term anymore, then they should go about changing it. Until then I'm quite happy however they choose to describe themselves.

It's disrespectful to the people who are born and raised in African countries when you can't even tell anyone anything about Africa and its very disrespectful to the white, mixed, Asian, Middle Eastern ect Africans who are constantly being told by African Americans that they are not allowed to call themselves African despite being born and living there while the Americans can't even name 5 countries or don't partake in any culture, Africa is a continent of countries and is defined by nationality and not race you can't call yourself African if you American born and raised with no real ties to Africa

[Livia]

It's disrespectful to the people who are born and raised in African countries when you can't even tell anyone anything about Africa and its very disrespectful to the white, mixed, Asian, Middle Eastern ect Africans who are constantly being told by African Americans that they are not allowed to call themselves African despite being born and living there while the Americans can't even name 5 countries or don't partake in any culture, Africa is a continent of countries and is defined by nationality and not race you can't call yourself African if you American born and raised with no real ties to Africa


If you have a problem with what a group of people in another country choose to call themselves then I really don't know what to tell you.

[Denver]

If you have a problem with what a group of people in another country choose to call themselves then I really don't know what to tell you.

What dobyou not understand? You can not and should not claim to be a citizen of another country that you are not and know nothing about

[arista]

Tik Tok

Is causing trouble or is just reflecting USA Youth changing.

[Livia]

What dobyou not understand? You can not and should not claim to be a citizen of another country that you are not and know nothing about

Oh please, do correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is this: You don't like African Americans calling themselves African Americans because they weren't born in Africa. It sounds so ridiculous maybe I am not understanding you.

[Livia]

Tik Tok

Is causing trouble or is just reflecting USA Youth changing.

Like I said, if there's a movement for African Americans to call themselves something else, that's very much up to them.

[Denver]

Oh please, do correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is this: You don't like African Americans calling themselves African Americans because they weren't born in Africa. It sounds so ridiculous maybe I am not understanding you.

You wouldn't like it if someone who spent their whole lives living in Iraq started to call themselves British even though they wasn't? You can't just say yu are a nationality it doesn't work like that

[Livia]

You wouldn't like it if someone who spent their whole lives living in Iraq started to call themselves British even though they wasn't? You can't just say yu are a nationality it doesn't work like that

You said African wasn't a nationality. Make your mind up.

Your analogy is quite tenuous, but to play along... If that person in Iraq was descended from Britons who were sold into slavery in Iraq, then I suppose I wouldn't have any problem with it at all. So don't you think it's a little disrespectful to people whose ancestors were taken to America, from Africa, in chains, to tell them they can't call themselves what they've chosen to call themselves? I'd keep my trunk out of their business.

[Marsh.]

Wait, I thought your issue was with people assuming that all black people in America are "African American" but your issue is with African Americans calling themselves African American? :conf:

[Marsh.]

It's disrespectful to the people who are born and raised in African countries when you can't even tell anyone anything about Africa and its very disrespectful to the white, mixed, Asian, Middle Eastern ect Africans who are constantly being told by African Americans that they are not allowed to call themselves African despite being born and living there while the Americans can't even name 5 countries or don't partake in any culture,

I'm sorry, where is this happening?

[Denver]

I'm sorry, where is this happening?

The amount of videos on social media of black Americans who have never left the country attacking white South africans by saying they will never be African because they are not black.

You can't claim a nationality for your self it just does not work like that

[bots]

of all the things to get outraged about at the moment, this is pretty low on the agenda. It doesn't even apply in the UK.

[Cherie]

Not even a thing, just because your grandfather 8x removed was born in Ireland it doesn't make you Irish and you are only seen as part of another nationality if its your birth grand parents or parents born there

Seriously Denver you should do a bit of research before you come out with this crap

Why do you think Biden has an interest in Northern Ireland? The Irish American vote is huge, most of these people have never set foot in Ireland but they are very proud of their roots

[Oliver_W]

Tbh I thought the term "African American" came because people were uncomfortable with the word black?

[Livia]

I thought I was alone here, that I was maybe missing some point. But... no.

[bots]

the same is true for Scottish Americans who come over here to soak up their ancestors history, find out what clan they are attached to etc.

Heritage, no matter how far back it goes, is a very big deal

[Cherie]

I thought I was alone here, that I was maybe missing some point. But... no.

I don’t know what the point is at all tbh

[Denver]

Seriously Denver you should do a bit of research before you come out with this crap

Why do you think Biden has an interest in Northern Ireland? The Irish American vote is huge, most of these people have never set foot in Ireland but they are very proud of their roots

They can't stake a claim in Africa when they don't even know what country they are stacking the claim in and people on mainland Africa actually don't like it

[user104658]

the same is true for Scottish Americans who come over here to soak up their ancestors history, find out what clan they are attached to etc.

Heritage, no matter how far back it goes, is a very big deal


We had an exchange student for a year in my Uni residence who had chosen to do his year abroad in Scotland because …. His family had Irish roots on his father’s side, but there were no exchange places for Irish Universities so he decided that Scotland was “close enough” :joker:.

[GoldHeart]

Tbh I thought the term "African American" came because people were uncomfortable with the word black?

Yeah but like the dated awful word "coloured" people eventually realised it's actually ok to actually say BLACK , it's strange that African American is still used . Obviously it's no where near as cringe as saying "coloured" though.

[Denver]

Also using Scottish and Irish heritage is a very poor example to back your argument up, neither is a continent with Iver 50 countries hundreds of traditions, religions, cultures, tribes ect and to just generalise Africa as black is a very bad thing to do

[Crimson Dynamo]

the crux of your thread premise is based on tiktok clips and

"I don't understand the obsession with the Americans calling every black person African American? "

there is no obsession

and

they dont


So really i am not sure what can be said?

[Denver]

the crux of your thread premise is based on tiktok clips and

"I don't understand the obsession with the Americans calling every black person African American? "

there is no obsession

and

they dont


So really i am not sure what can be said?

You name one black American that has never been referred to African American?

[Marsh.]

The amount of videos on social media of black Americans who have never left the country attacking white South africans by saying they will never be African because they are not black.

You can't claim a nationality for your self it just does not work like that

And you've researched their life and ancestry to assess they're not, in fact, African American?

[thesheriff443]

Denver i could turn round and say you shouldn’t be talking about African Americans because you are not one that’s how far you are stretching this

It’s just another band wagon that people jump

[Marsh.]

Also using Scottish and Irish heritage is a very poor example to back your argument up, neither is a continent with Iver 50 countries hundreds of traditions, religions, cultures, tribes ect and to just generalise Africa as black is a very bad thing to do

Nobody generalised Africa as "black".

[Denver]

And you've researched their life and ancestry to assess they're not, in fact, African American?

Most of them have no history of ancestory because records of slaves were never kept and you don't see all white people called European Americans or Asian people Asian Americans, 90% of America is not naturalised Americans so if they want to start calling one race from the continent they think they are from then they need to be doing it to all races or stop and the Americans need to stop acting like they have high authority over Africs when they know nothing about it

[Denver]

Nobody generalised Africa as "black".

Calling all black people African American is not generalising Africa as a black only continent ?

[Cherie]

Denver the black community have requested they be referred to as African American, take it up with Jesse et al..:shrug:

[Marsh.]

Most of them have no history of ancestory because records of slaves were never kept and you don't see all white people called European Americans or Asian people Asian Americans, 90% of America is not naturalised Americans so if they want to start calling one race from the continent they think they are from then they need to be doing it to all races or stop and the Americans need to stop acting like they have high authority over Africs when they know nothing about it

You're taking offence on behalf of a continent that hasn't taken offence.

[Marsh.]

Calling all black people African American is not generalising Africa as a black only continent ?

No.

And not all black people are referred to as African American.

[Denver]

Denver the black community have requested they be referred to as African American, take it up with Jesse et al..:shrug:

But not the black community who currently dont live in America and i have seen so many posts and videos of people who know which African country they came from but live in America who are totally against the term

[Denver]

No.

And not all black people are referred to as African American.

Name one black American who hasn't

[Marsh.]

Name one black American who hasn't

:joker:

You want me to provide proof but we're supposed to take your word for it?

[bots]

Also using Scottish and Irish heritage is a very poor example to back your argument up, neither is a continent with Iver 50 countries hundreds of traditions, religions, cultures, tribes ect and to just generalise Africa as black is a very bad thing to do

ok, call it europe, asia or whatever other continent you wish to pick

[Denver]

:joker:

You want me to provide proof but we're supposed to take your word for it?

Yu can do the research your self

[Marsh.]

But not the black community who currently live in America and i have seen so many posts and videos of people who know which African country they came from but live in America who are totally against the term

So.... there are, in fact, black Americans who don't use the term African American to describe themselves. :shrug:

[Marsh.]

Yu can do the research your self

Why should I? You created the thread. If you want the debate, bring the tools.

[Cherie]

But not the black community who currently live in America and i have seen so many posts and videos of people who know which African country they came from but live in America who are totally against the term

They need to take it up with those who have decided that is the way to go? i.e other people in the black community

[Denver]

So.... there are, in fact, black Americans who don't use the term African American to describe themselves. :shrug:

Just because they don't use it doesn't mean they are not called it

[Marsh.]

Just because they don't use it doesn't mean they are not called it

It doesn't mean they are either.

[Denver]

African Americans and Africans do not see eye to eye at all

[Cherie]

African Americans and Africans do not see eye to eye at all

Okay, thats not anyones problem but theirs, I am sure they don’t want white folk sticking their noses in

[bots]

African Americans and Africans do not see eye to eye at all

so what?

[Marsh.]

African Americans and Africans do not see eye to eye at all

You have to be specific. You're not allowed to just say "Africans", which country specifically? Not all Africans are black, Denver.

[Redway]

Wait, I thought your issue was with people assuming that all black people in America are "African American" but your issue is with African Americans calling themselves African American? :conf:

That’s exactly what I thought. If it’s the latter then I have to agree with Livia.

[bots]

all the people in 2 continents don't agree, what a shocker

[Denver]

You have to be specific. You're not allowed to just say "Africans", which country specifically? Not all Africans are black, Denver.

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMdPn2eAa/
https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMdPneduS/


Just a few videos on the subject will post more later

[Crimson Dynamo]

You name one black American that has never been referred to African American?

Bill Brown from Duluth

age 67 and originally from St Kitts

[Marsh.]

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMdPn2eAa/
https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMdPneduS/


Just a few videos on the subject will post more later

I find it amusing that you take issue with generalisations of whole countries and continents, but you do so based on a selection of tik tok videos. :laugh:

I'll leave you to your thread.

[Marsh.]

Bill Brown from Duluth

age 67 and originally from St Kitts

Do they know Lester Nygaard?

[Ammi]

…in fairness to Denver and doing a little Google…it does seem to be a topic that has many articles written about it…(…I’ll post a couple of links but there are quite a few…)…and a discussion that does seem to have some activity or has had…

https://fordhamobserver.com/30133/opinions/should-we-say-black-or-african-american/

https://newafricanmagazine.com/3168/

…anyway, I don’t have any thoughts on it atm but there does seem to be reasoning and discussions regarding it…

[user104658]

I don’t mean to be flippant but do you have any IDEA of the constant stream of absolute **** my daughter parrots from TikTok as “facts”?

They range from “poorly conceptualised” to “flawed” and right through to “utterly ludicrous to the point of being funny”.

[Crimson Dynamo]

African Americans and Africans do not see eye to eye at all

what a ridiculous generalisation

:facepalm:

[smudgie]

African American surely means someone whose roots are from the Continent of Africa.
As to not knowing which precise country they originate from makes no different, they are from the continent.
Africans were the natives of the country of Africa, and as such were only ever the black people.
White people born in Africa would be classed as whatever country they were born in.
Whites from South Africa would be South African or Afrikaners.
I have many cousins born in South Africa who would not consider themselves as African, on the other hand the younger generation wonder why they can’t be called African.:shrug:

[Cherie]

Who do you think should be sorting this out Denver?

[Cherie]

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMdPn2eAa/
https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMdPneduS/


Just a few videos on the subject will post more later

Gosh the lady in video 2 quickly gained an American accent if she arrived in 2017 :laugh:

[Niamh.]

People claiming ro be Irish American is a huge thing Adam

[Ammi]

People claiming ro be Irish American is a huge thing Adam

…as is Italian American…(…just to name two…)…

[Livia]

Yeah but like the dated awful word "coloured" people eventually realised it's actually ok to actually say BLACK , it's strange that African American is still used . Obviously it's no where near as cringe as saying "coloured" though.

Because black people chose it.

Read the thread.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I met a beautiful American woman on a plane once who said she always wanted to join the Mile High Club but only with a native American man with Scottish Ancestry!

She introduced herself as Claudia and I told her I was called Sequoia Tayanita McTavish

[Livia]

LOL....

[thesheriff443]

I met a beautiful American woman on a plane once who said she always wanted to join the Mile High Club but only with a native American man with Scottish Ancestry!

She introduced herself as Claudia and I told her I was called Sequoia Tayanita McTavish
The only time you been in a plane toilet getting hot and steamy is when you had to take a dump.

[Crimson Dynamo]

The only time you been in a plane toilet getting hot and steamy is when you had to take a dump.

i would never have an Ertha on a plane

no way hose

[bots]

i would never have an Ertha on a plane

no way hose

you prefer a douglas

[user104658]

African American surely means someone whose roots are from the Continent of Africa.
As to not knowing which precise country they originate from makes no different, they are from the continent.
Africans were the natives of the country of Africa, and as such were only ever the black people.
White people born in Africa would be classed as whatever country they were born in.
Whites from South Africa would be South African or Afrikaners.
I have many cousins born in South Africa who would not consider themselves as African, on the other hand the younger generation wonder why they can’t be called African.:shrug:


Exactly Smudgie - a white person in America with Ancestry from an African country (South Africa for example) is not African American because white South Africans do not have African heritage - they are, generally, ethnically European.

[GoldHeart]

Because black people chose it.

Read the thread.

I'm fully aware, I'm saying how it's STILL used.

[Livia]

I'm fully aware, I'm saying how it's STILL used.

Because to change it is not OUR call. I've said before... maybe you saw... if ever African Americans choose to call themselves something else, that's fine with me. Until then, African American it is.

[user104658]

You can end up with some confusion for the young'uns though - e.g. when she was about 8 my daughter was constantly referring to black BRITISH celebrities as "African American" :think: ...

Her intentions were pure.

[Livia]

You can end up with some confusion for the young'uns though - e.g. when she was about 8 my daughter was constantly referring to black BRITISH celebrities as "African American" :think: ...

Her intentions were pure.

When my eldest nieces were small they spoke with an American accent for a while because they were obsessed with Hannah Montana. Maybe we are the 51st state?!

[user104658]

When my eldest nieces were small they spoke with an American accent for a while because they were obsessed with Hannah Montana. Maybe we are the 51st state?!

It was VicTorious/Sam & Cat and iCarly here but yes she was obsessed with the idea of living in America and at one point identified as "American".

She's essentially a teen now so - naturally - it's switched to Anime and she is Japanese.

[Livia]

It was VicTorious/Sam & Cat and iCarly here but yes she was obsessed with the idea of living in America and at one point identified as "American".

She's essentially a teen now so - naturally - it's switched to Anime and she is Japanese.


LOL...