Mobile phone ban in Schools to start Jan/2022

[arista]

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/0F21/production/_119237830_the-i-nc.png

[user104658]

They should be in bags and turned off in school, or alternatively there should even be a “storage room” for them during the school day (mini lockers) but insisting on them being left home simply isn’t going to work. It’s 2021 and it’s neither sensible nor safe for teenagers to be out miles from home without any means of contact. It’s not like there are pay phones they can use.

If they implement this my daughter will be doing the same as she has been for the last year and a half at primary school; phone on silent, in a hidden inside zip pocket of her bag. She’s thankfully not dumb enough to get it out in school or blab about it to her pals.

[michael21]

Where dose it say that phone are ban in school from Jan 2022 :conf:

[Ammi]

…it’s smart phones specifically rather than mobile phones, I believe…children will still be contactable and be able to contact etc which is essential…but it’s more to prevent access to social media and the taking of highly expensive phones to school…

[bots]

some things are unenforceable and this is one of them. Wait till the government gets sued because some kid gets abducted all because they couldnt use their phone

[Ammi]

…can you imagine all of those alien beings sitting on their planets right now and shaking their heads in disbelief…oh look at those humans, it’s taken this time to create the technology to move forward in their safety …and they’re banning the use of it…yep, that’s our government….


…in any cases of abduction as bots said…?…technology available in phones has been hugely important…

[bots]

…can you imagine all of those alien beings sitting on their planets right now and shaking their heads in disbelief…oh look at those humans, it’s taken this time to create the technology to move forward in their safety …and they’re banning the use of it…yep, that’s our government….


…in any cases of abduction as bots said…?…technology available in phones has been hugely important…

it's not just the ability to call someone, its the tracking of the phone etc ... and that is best with a smart phone

[Ammi]

it's not just the ability to call someone, its the tracking of the phone etc ... and that is best with a smart phone

…yeah that’s what I say, the technology of phones had been hugely important in abduction cases and it’s now being suggested that, that be scrapped in favour of more dated and inferior ‘brick technology’ ….only for our children, though…?…those people who are the most precious in our lives…?….

…keeping phones in bags during school hours except when a specific reason has been agreed is a solution but preventing children from having smartphones for their journeys to and from school is not a solution, it’s a badly thought out foolishness…

[arista]

some things are unenforceable and this is one of them. Wait till the government gets sued because some kid gets abducted all because they couldnt use their phone


But as they leave the school
they get their phone back


No kid has been abducted in a school.

[arista]

They should be in bags and turned off in school, or alternatively there should even be a “storage room” for them during the school day (mini lockers) but insisting on them being left home simply isn’t going to work. It’s 2021 and it’s neither sensible nor safe for teenagers to be out miles from home without any means of contact. It’s not like there are pay phones they can use.

If they implement this my daughter will be doing the same as she has been for the last year and a half at primary school; phone on silent, in a hidden inside zip pocket of her bag. She’s thankfully not dumb enough to get it out in school or blab about it to her pals.



That will not happen.


That Commission will not get its wish

[Ammi]

…the time required for staff to take 800/900 or whatever phones per day on arrival to school and return them on departure is so unworkable and unfeasible….yet another badly thought out plan from a badly put together government…

[AnnieK]

But as they leave the school
they get their phone back


No kid has been abducted in a school.

Where will a school safely store 1000 mobile phones every day in a way that it will not disrupt the start and end of every day when the pupils drop off / pick up the phones?

It's a shame they can't use a signal jammer during the school day but obviously as they rely on technology they can't do that.

I don't know what the answer is but I do know when my son starts high school next September 2022 and has to take a bus to school he will sure as hell have a phone on him

[michael21]

But as they leave the school
they get their phone back


No kid has been abducted in a school.

I sure that not true what about that girl a couple of years back

[michael21]

Where will a school safely store 1000 mobile phones every day in a way that it will not disrupt the start and end of every day when the pupils drop off / pick up the phones?

It's a shame they can't use a signal jammer during the school day but obviously as they rely on technology they can't do that.

I don't know what the answer is but I do know when my son starts high school next September 2022 and has to take a bus to school he will sure as hell have a phone on him

Yes that is wise sure sometime technology is bad but other time it can help

[Ammi]

Where will a school safely store 1000 mobile phones every day in a way that it will not disrupt the start and end of every day when the pupils drop off / pick up the phones?

It's a shame they can't use a signal jammer during the school day but obviously as they rely on technology they can't do that.

I don't know what the answer is but I do know when my son starts high school next September 2022 and has to take a bus to school he will sure as hell have a phone on him

…no worries, he’ll miss his school buss, Annie as he’ll be queueing up to get his phone back at the end of the day…and we know those school buses have to leave on time …mind you, he probably wasn’t marked in as being at school anyway and marked as being absent while he was queueing up trying to hand his phone in, in the morning…

[ThomasC]

I sure that not true what about that girl a couple of years back

Weren't Sarah and Jessica Wells abducted from school?

I'm not sure if it was from school, but it was the caretaker..... It was only then that DBS checks were introduced.

As for phones in school....it's very hard to regulate. There's not a need for them during the school day unless in exceptional circumstances.

Schools will already have a policy for mobile phones and it should be up to the individual schools to review and implement this.

[bots]

But as they leave the school
they get their phone back


No kid has been abducted in a school.

Predators will take advantage of any weakness, it's what they do

[AnnieK]

Weren't Sarah and Jessica Wells abducted from school?

I'm not sure if it was from school, but it was the caretaker..... It was only then that DBS checks were introduced.

As for phones in school....it's very hard to regulate. There's not a need for them during the school day unless in exceptional circumstances.

Schools will already have a policy for mobile phones and it should be up to the individual schools to review and implement this.

Yeah he was the school caretaker but they weren't in school when he killed them.

[Zizu]

But as they leave the school
they get their phone back


No kid has been abducted in a school.


Who’s gonna have the job of collecting 1,200+ mobile phones - where on Earth will they be kept for safety (Covid19 and loss /damage) . It would take ages colllecting them in and distributing them ..

The ‘challenging ’ pupils would just swear that they hadn’t brought theirs in that day .


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Crimson Dynamo]

give them a basic nokia for school that only can make calls?

[rusticgal]

Great news....they are a massive distraction. They can collect their phones as they leave school...Im sure there is a system. My company issued every member of staff with a mobile phone and thats how we were allocated our jobs/breaks etc. We had many spares that were held in a 'mobile' locker which we could access by a security system. Something like this where they can be deposited at the beginning of the day and collected at the end.
I really dont know how we got home in one piece before mobiles were around...:laugh:


...if you think your child is unsafe walking to or from school then either take them and pick them up or get them to go with a friend. If someone is going to abduct them the first thing they are going to do is find and dump the mobile phone so they cant be tracked...

[Tom4784]

Deleted Post

[Legrand]

This is so ****ing stupid, whoever wants this implemented should go back to the Paleozoic era.

[rusticgal]

They should be in bags and turned off in school, or alternatively there should even be a “storage room” for them during the school day (mini lockers) but insisting on them being left home simply isn’t going to work. It’s 2021 and it’s neither sensible nor safe for teenagers to be out miles from home without any means of contact. It’s not like there are pay phones they can use.

If they implement this my daughter will be doing the same as she has been for the last year and a half at primary school; phone on silent, in a hidden inside zip pocket of her bag. She’s thankfully not dumb enough to get it out in school or blab about it to her pals.


There are obviously a lot of dumb kids out there who spoil it for others....

[Crimson Dynamo]

This is so ****ing stupid, whoever wants this implemented should go back to the Paleozoic era.

they are called teachers

[rusticgal]

they are called teachers



....and probably dealing with the same kind of response from kids caught on their phones in class :laugh:

[Crimson Dynamo]

....and probably dealing with the same kind of response from kids caught on their phones in class :laugh:

EXACTLY

[Beso]

It's obviously not working having them allowed at school. So it's worth trying to see what happens.

But after reading everyone's comments, I must admit after being staunchly for it, I'm actually a bit torn between the 2.

[AnnieK]

Like it or not, mobile technology is a massive part of daily life for kids and adults alike.

I agree that the use in the classrooms if not part of a lesson is a distraction but to ban them completely seems unenforceable to me.

Schools will be fighting a losing battle trying to keep them out...

[Crimson Dynamo]

Like it or not, mobile technology is a massive part of daily life for kids and adults alike.

I agree that the use in the classrooms if not part of a lesson is a distraction but to ban them completely seems unenforceable to me.

Schools will be fighting a losing battle trying to keep them out...

I am sure it is not beyond the wit of any school to make sure kids dont have a phone in class. Just because it will be difficult is not a reason not to do it.

I very much doubt that phones are an issue for bright and able kids but ARE an issue for those who struggle at school

[Beso]

Adults are not permitted to use them at many workplaces across the uk.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Adults are not permitted to use them at many workplaces across the uk.

and employers are within their rights to impose this (in every workplace)

[AnnieK]

I am sure it is not beyond the wit of any school to make sure kids dont have a phone in class. Just because it will be difficult is not a reason not to do it.

I very much doubt that phones are an issue for bright and able kids but ARE an issue for those who struggle at school

How will they make sure though? We were not allowed fags in school but a lot of people got them in, we were not allowed to pass notes, but we did. Kids having distracting things in school is not a new thing and its something schools have never been able to control. Kids get drugs, knives and all sorts of contraband in....how will they be able to stop phones? Are they going to physically search every pupil, install some kind of scanner?

A ban in the classrooms I agree with although its never going to be a reality I fear.

[AnnieK]

and employers are within their rights to impose this (in every workplace)

Oh absolutely, I don't think they should be used in school but I am saying logistically I don't know how it will be enforced

[Crimson Dynamo]

How will they make sure though? We were not allowed fags in school but a lot of people got them in, we were not allowed to pass notes, but we did. Kids having distracting things in school is not a new thing and its something schools have never been able to control. Kids get drugs, knives and all sorts of contraband in....how will they be able to stop phones? Are they going to physically search every pupil, install some kind of scanner?

A ban in the classrooms I agree with although its never going to be a reality I fear.

hopefully, any respectful parent will make sure they dont leave for school with one

parenting 101

[AnnieK]

hopefully, any respectful parent will make sure they dont leave for school with one

parenting 101

Same applies though....any respectful parent would make sure their kids don't leave with a packet of Bensons....but they do. Parents often have to leave before kids do.

Kids will always he sneaky....I know I was and I'm sure you were too :shrug:

Growing up 101

[The Slim Reaper]

Same applies though....any respectful parent would make sure their kids don't leave with a packet of Bensons....but they do. Parents often have to leave before kids do.

Kids will always he sneaky....I know I was and I'm sure you were too :shrug:

Growing up 101

Any parent who sends their kids to school without a mobile phone is negligent imo.

[The Slim Reaper]

…no worries, he’ll miss his school buss, Annie as he’ll be queueing up to get his phone back at the end of the day…and we know those school buses have to leave on time …mind you, he probably wasn’t marked in as being at school anyway and marked as being absent while he was queueing up trying to hand his phone in, in the morning…

He's a manc, so it's more likely he's in the Arndale, shoplifting :smug:

[AnnieK]

He's a manc, so it's more likely he's in the Arndale, shoplifting :smug:

I've taught him better than that.......


He'll be in Selfridges and Harvey Nics :tongue:

[Crimson Dynamo]

Same applies though....any respectful parent would make sure their kids don't leave with a packet of Bensons....but they do. Parents often have to leave before kids do.

Kids will always he sneaky....I know I was and I'm sure you were too :shrug:

Growing up 101

That is a very poor reflection on parents, i hold them to a higher bar

with respect

[AnnieK]

You don't mean it with respect at all :laugh:

As a parent yourself you know as well as anyone else that kids will be kids and even the best parents will never know everything they get up to.

My parent's were stricter than most and it was hard to get anything past my mother especially but I did.

[Crimson Dynamo]

You don't mean it with respect at all :laugh:

As a parent yourself you know as well as anyone else that kids will be kids and even the best parents will never know everything they get up to.

My parent's were stricter than most and it was hard to get anything past my mother especially but I did.

and its up to adults to protect them and make sure they get a good education

[AnnieK]

and its up to adults to protect them and make sure they get a good education

What do you think removing mobile phones will actually do? It's not going to make poor performers into model students or perform better, it's not going to stop bullying, it could even make some situations worse.

If you think that sending a kid to high school is bad parenting, I will wear that badge with pride. I will ensure he knows its not to be used in school and I will be pissed if he ever did but if he needs me or to call for help for any reason, I'm not leaving him without means.

[Beso]

Most bullying is done via mobile phone these days.

[AnnieK]

Most bullying is done via mobile phone these days.

Remove the mobile and what will happen? Kids walking home can't ring someone to tell them they are being followed by the bullies...and get a kicking :shrug:

[Crimson Dynamo]

What do you think removing mobile phones will actually do? It's not going to make poor performers into model students or perform better, it's not going to stop bullying, it could even make some situations worse.

If you think that sending a kid to high school is bad parenting, I will wear that badge with pride. I will ensure he knows its not to be used in school and I will be pissed if he ever did but if he needs me or to call for help for any reason, I'm not leaving him without means.

ask a teacher

[AnnieK]

ask a teacher

You're the one who seems to have the answers though so I'm asking you.

You said you hold parent's to higher standards and schools should have the wit to do it so you must have your reasons/opinions.

[Crimson Dynamo]

You're the one who seems to have the answers though so I'm asking you.

You said you hold parent's to higher standards and schools should have the wit to do it so you must have your reasons/opinions.

correct

i am not throwing in the towel because kids wont like it

that role is being performed by you?

and we are all wondering why?

[AnnieK]

correct

i am not throwing in the towel because kids wont like it

that role is being performed by you?

and we are all wondering why?

Who is "we all" there is only really you and I in this conversation?

I've asked how you think it will improve education....that's all?

I am not throwing in any towel :laugh: From a safety point of view in today's world, phones are a godsend. I would not leave home alone without my phone....why should I make an 11 12 /13 year old etc go take a bus to high school with no means of contacting someone if there is a problem?

As a responsible parent, I would call that safeguarding but if you call that throwing in the towel fair enough. I'm happy enough to wear that badge as I said

[Vicky.]

They should be in bags and turned off in school, or alternatively there should even be a “storage room” for them during the school day (mini lockers) but insisting on them being left home simply isn’t going to work. It’s 2021 and it’s neither sensible nor safe for teenagers to be out miles from home without any means of contact. It’s not like there are pay phones they can use.

If they implement this my daughter will be doing the same as she has been for the last year and a half at primary school; phone on silent, in a hidden inside zip pocket of her bag. She’s thankfully not dumb enough to get it out in school or blab about it to her pals.Agreed. Many need them with them, but shouldn't be fannying through the day with them..

[bots]

i am adamant that my lad will take his phone with him to school

[AnnieK]

i am adamant that my lad will take his phone with him to school

I'll make you a bad parent badge too BOTS, we can wear them when we throw in LTs metaphorical towel :thumbs:

[Vicky.]

But as they leave the school
they get their phone back


No kid has been abducted in a school.

Coming back from school tho..and even if it hasn't happened yet, potential is there which is enough to mitigate risk. It's not just abduction anyway. Could have any number of things they need to contact you about, or vice versa. Along with tracking as has been mentioned.

No phones at all in unenforceable as parents won't allow it tbh, for good reason. Off/silent through the day and if caught messing on class, detention or something I think most reasonable parents would agree to.

[AnnieK]

Coming back from school tho..and even if it hasn't happened yet, potential is there which is enough to mitigate risk. It's not just abduction anyway. Could have any number of things they need to contact you about, or vice versa. Along with tracking as has been mentioned.

No phones at all in unenforceable as parents won't allow it tbh, for good reason. Off/silent through the day and if caught messing on class, detention or something I think most reasonable parents would agree to.

100% agree

[Niamh.]

Who is "we all" there is only really you and I in this conversation?

I've asked how you think it will improve education....that's all?

I am not throwing in any towel [emoji23] From a safety point of view in today's world, phones are a godsend. I would not leave home alone without my phone....why should I make an 11 12 /13 year old etc go take a bus to high school with no means of contacting someone if there is a problem?

As a responsible parent, I would call that safeguarding but if you call that throwing in the towel fair enough. I'm happy enough to wear that badge as I saidWell I don't know about anyone else but I was sitting her wondering why you're always throwing towels Annie, so rude :oh:

[AnnieK]

Well I don't know about anyone else but I was sitting her wondering why you're always throwing towels Annie, so rude :oh:

What can I say.....I love the way towels fly :love:

[Niamh.]

What can I say.....I love the way towels fly :love:[emoji23]

[Beso]

If someone wants to abduct a kid so bad they will just pick them up and throw the phone away...

The reason people don't abduct so much these days is probably down to the advanced CCTV operation the conservative government has put together.

Bullies, well by the time your kid is phoning you they will already have been bullied.

[Beso]

Well I don't know about anyone else but I was sitting her wondering why you're always throwing towels Annie, so rude :oh:

Sheals flicking Lts naked butt with the wet end, the big bully that she is.:hehe:

[AnnieK]

If someone wants to abduct a kid so bad they will just pick them up and throw the phone away...

The reason people don't abduct so much these days is probably down to the advanced CCTV operation the conservative government has put together.

Bullies, well by the time your kid is phoning you they will already have been bullied.

It's not just bullying or abduction though....as I said I wouldn't leave home without my phone in case of an emergency so why should I send my kid out with no way of contacting anyone if he needed someone for any reason.

[Ammi]

…I don’t think that anyone is objecting to the ban of any use of mobile phones in school unless there was a specific emergency type reason that had been agreed…it’s more the travelling to and from school and there are lots of reasons why children can need a phone….for medical reasons for instance or they may not be going directly home…so a parent needs to know if their child has got to their destination okay…I mean even at primary school level, there are many reasons why some children need and have to have phones for their school journey and obviously much more so at higher school level …it’s really more, how the system of ‘no phones’ will work during the school day and I assume some schools will have lockers systems etc…but that’s something that the schools will all have to work out individually as there won’t be a one size fits all schools system for phone storage….

[Tom4784]

Deleted Post

[The Slim Reaper]

i am adamant that my lad will take his phone with him to school

https://i0.wp.com/biffbampop.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/adam1.jpg?resize=300%2C290

[AnnieK]

https://i0.wp.com/biffbampop.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/adam1.jpg?resize=300%2C290

I will stand and deliver my kid to school with his phone (when he is at high school and making his way to and fro alone) and am still waiting for LTs opinions on how banning them from school buildings will improve education. He's not very forthcoming with his opinion right now. But am hopeful he will have a good reason to suggest that its bad parenting to allow a child to take a phone to school.

[user104658]

Really at the end of the day, there’s no way to actually impose a ban anyway without repeatedly searching through kids stuff which is 1) not allowed and an invasion of privacy and 2) impossible in terms of time and resources… kids will just bring them anyway and keep them in their bag.

They weren’t allowed at my daughter’s primary school but most kids had them for the final two years… and by the end the teachers knew fine well they had them, it was just a sort of unspoken agreement of “we know it’s in your bag, but so long as it’s not seen on school grounds no one is going to say anything”.

It would just end up like that everywhere; people would have them in their bag on silent. How would anyone know?

The one thing they did come down on hard was if anyone was ever caught taking pictures/making videos in school. I think it happened twice in 2 years though.

[The Slim Reaper]

I will stand and deliver my kid to school with his phone (when he is at high school and making his way to and fro alone) and am still waiting for LTs opinions on how banning them from school buildings will improve education. He's not very forthcoming with his opinion right now. But am hopeful he will have a good reason to suggest that its bad parenting to allow a child to take a phone to school.

Well I admire your optimistic view on the fact you think you're having an honest and good faith discussion.

[AnnieK]

Well I admire your optimistic view on the fact you think you're having an honest and good faith discussion.

To spend a full evening discussing it, I am hopeful there is reasoning behind it. We are adults and discussing children, their safety and their education. I refuse to be cynical and think someone would invest time to just troll.an opinion on it. Hopefully LT will prove me right.

[rusticgal]

Only a **** parent would want their kids out and about without a phone because them having a phone would be 'throwing in the towel' in their eyes.


Pity the parents who can’t afford to supply their kids with a phone….:shrug:

[user104658]

LT has changed his mind because he realised that the school kids could use their phones to go on YouTube and learn how to peep out Orange marching tunes on their recorders in music class?

[Ammi]

Really at the end of the day, there’s no way to actually impose a ban anyway without repeatedly searching through kids stuff which is 1) not allowed and an invasion of privacy and 2) impossible in terms of time and resources… kids will just bring them anyway and keep them in their bag.

They weren’t allowed at my daughter’s primary school but most kids had them for the final two years… and by the end the teachers knew fine well they had them, it was just a sort of unspoken agreement of “we know it’s in your bag, but so long as it’s not seen on school grounds no one is going to say anything”.

It would just end up like that everywhere; people would have them in their bag on silent. How would anyone know?

The one thing they did come down on hard was if anyone was ever caught taking pictures/making videos in school. I think it happened twice in 2 years though.

…back in the day, not that long ago actually…we had a 3 tier system with a middle school before high school and that middle school life would begin in what is primary year 5 now…?…that was ‘big school’…:laugh:..now ‘big school’ is high school which begins in year 7 …but once at middle school, many children (…with parental consent…)….would travel to and from school independently of parents …when it was all changed to a two tier system, primary schools had to offer that same independence that had been previously given and incorporate it into their system for years 5 and...so children had the option (…with parental consent…)…of walking or cycling home without a parent…that’s another thing, a child could fall off their bike and need to contact someone….but anyway, yeah that’s when the ‘you can bring a phone into school, in fact we’d prefer you did’ policy began at our school for those children who were walking or cycling home without a parent…those phones are kept in the school office in a safe but that can be done on a small scale ….not obviously if most of the pupils are taking their phones in as in a high school…

[Beso]

Amazing how a thread can become so personal for no reason.

Worst of all though, we have non parents telling parents they are **** parents for deciding to not allow their kids to go to school with a mobile phone.


Absolutely disgusting

[AnnieK]

Amazing how a thread can become so personal for no reason.

Worst of all though, we have non parents telling parents they are **** parents for deciding to not allow their kids to go to school with a mobile phone.


Absolutely disgusting

We also have parents telling parents that they are below the bar for allowing their kids to take a phone for safety reasons without giving a valid opinion on why mobile phones should be left at home.

[Beso]

We also have parents telling parents that they are below the bar for allowing their kids to take a phone for safety reasons without giving a valid opinion on why mobile phones should be left at home.

I think you got a bit muddled up in your effort to defend yourself.


Lt seems to be talking about having phones in school ,and you agree with him on that, your issue seems to be about the journey to and from school, which isnt the same as what LT was saying.

That's how I read it anyway.

[Glenn.]

I don’t think anyone has an issue with banning phone usage in schools. Outright banning pupils having mobile phones on them at all is ridiculous and anyone that actually agrees with that is just trolling

[Beso]

How did kids ever survive in the 70s 80s and early 90s...the days of proper bullying and proper abduction..

How on earth did they survive.

[bots]

How did kids ever survive in the 70s 80s and early 90s...the days of proper bullying and proper abduction..

How on earth did they survive.

the world is a different place parm, the dangers and the tech are just not the same. If we keep looking backward we wouldnt progress at all

[Glenn.]

How did kids ever survive in the 70s 80s and early 90s...the days of proper bullying and proper abduction..

How on earth did they survive.

Well 5 kids alone were murdered by Ian Brady and Moira Hindley so them 5 didn’t

[Glenn.]

I also love the phrase ‘proper bullying’ such an intelligent way of dismissing other types of bullying.

[Ammi]

…I read an article earlier that said that this was in a consultation period so a ‘government ban’ hadn’t actually been decided yet and yet this has been reported as coming into effect in January…so that’s confusing, which is so often the way, I find…

…so far as phones are concerned in school…I feel that it’s something that should be a discretion of the head teacher situation and I generally don’t agree with a ‘cancel or taboo’ mentality either because it doesn’t teach young people to self discipline, remove a phone when a phone use has been abused and make clear rules regarding usage in school time…this would mean that mobile phones are blanket banned in schools so the inability to use and exercise good judgement and keep within school rules is taken away from a student …and then that student goes to uni/college etc with their phone and haven’t practised self discipline…

[AnnieK]

I think you got a bit muddled up in your effort to defend yourself.


Lt seems to be talking about having phones in school ,and you agree with him on that, your issue seems to be about the journey to and from school, which isnt the same as what LT was saying.

That's how I read it anyway.

LT said that "respectful" parents will ensure the kids don't leave the house with a phone.

I am in complete agreement that phones should not be on in the classroom, I have never disputed that.

[Beso]

Well 5 kids alone were murdered by Ian Brady and Moira Hindley so them 5 didn’t

Todays CCTV systems would have kept those numbers to one.

[Niamh.]

We also have parents telling parents that they are below the bar for allowing their kids to take a phone for safety reasons without giving a valid opinion on why mobile phones should be left at home.

.

It seems very selective reading on your part Parmnion tbqh

[Cherie]

Things to be thankful for

Kids no longer in school :worship:

[Niamh.]

Things to be thankful for

Kids no longer in school :worship:

:laugh: I have 2 more years to go

[Beso]

.

It seems very selective reading on your part Parmnion tbqh

What part?

The part regarding non parents telling parents they are **** parents for deciding what their kids need during a school day, or the other part...

Because one is far more serious than the other...

[Niamh.]

What part?

The part regarding non parents telling parents they are **** parents for deciding what their kids need during a school day, or the other part...

Because one is far more serious than the other...

Seems like reactionary posts to me

[Beso]

Seems like reactionary posts to me

Yeah...well dezzys seems like an over the top response, and a very insulting nasty one as well..

It offended me as a parent, and you should delete it.

[Niamh.]

Yeah...well dezzys seems like an over the top response, and a very insulting nasty one as well..

It offended me as a parent, and you should delete it.

Are you saying Dezzy can't have an opinion because he's not a parent? The forum doesn't work like that I'm afraid

[Beso]

Are you saying Dezzy can't have an opinion because he's not a parent? The forum doesn't work like that I'm afraid

Are you just nit picking at me, my non offensive post pointing out how the thread had turned into insulting Lt.

You decided to pick up on that post and ignore that part of it to point out I had missed something..

You chose to do all that than address dezzys post as a parent yourself??

That's very telling and just shows what a useless effort you mods put in these days.

May as well allow dezzy back on the team, which of course he still is anyway.

[Niamh.]

Are you just nit picking at me, my non offensive post pointing out how the thread had turned into insulting Lt.

You decided to pick up on that post and ignore that part of it to point out I had missed something..

You chose to do all that than address dezzys post as a parent yourself??

That's very telling and just shows what a useless effort you mods put in these days.

May as well allow dezzy back on the team, which of course he still is anyway.

No I'm not nit picking, I'm pointing out that the first person to make accusations about how good or bad a parent is on this thread was in fact LT, which you chose to ignore.

I won't comment on the rest of your post because it's quite petty and I'm not getting drawn in to that with you. Have a good day.

[user104658]

…I read an article earlier that said that this was in a consultation period so a ‘government ban’ hadn’t actually been decided yet and yet this has been reported as coming into effect in January…so that’s confusing, which is so often the way, I find…

…so far as phones are concerned in school…I feel that it’s something that should be a discretion of the head teacher situation and I generally don’t agree with a ‘cancel or taboo’ mentality either because it doesn’t teach young people to self discipline, remove a phone when a phone use has been abused and make clear rules regarding usage in school time…this would mean that mobile phones are blanket banned in schools so the inability to use and exercise good judgement and keep within school rules is taken away from a student …and then that student goes to uni/college etc with their phone and haven’t practised self discipline…


I’ve heard some schools of thought (escuse the noun) that suggest they could be incorporated into classes in creative ways as well, although personally I am against that but from another angle: I think it opens up an awful lot of inequality and competition between kids… some kids breezing through on new or newish “flagship” handsets whilst other frustratedly wait for their £50 Alcatel (or obsolete model phone) to load the app at all.

My wife (and to be fair to her, she is a heavy phone user for work) gets the “newest” flagship model every 2 years which means my eldest also gets a fairly new top brand phone every 2 years, but it’s really as a byproduct of my wife liking to get the newest one every upgrade. I’d be wary of a situation where kids start being EXPECTED to have a phone as part of school equipment.

There’s already been enough of that with the lockdown situation; some kids with geeky dads having no tech issues because they’re doing their school work on a 32” 4K screen on a gaming pc, while others are in the google classroom chat crying and frustrated because the ****ey Chromebook provided by the council won’t even load the work.

“Tech privilege” could quickly become a thing. It’s not even necessarily a money issue, my daughter has friends from properly well-off families who just “don’t do tech” and don’t allow the kids to have a pc / they themselves are happy with older phones so the kids have REALLY ancient ones. Usually the kids who were “later in life” to be honest and have parents already into their 50’s (and who are this a bit backwards and don’t really understand how integrated tech is into everything these days).

[Beso]

Interesting TS.

[user104658]

What part?

The part regarding non parents telling parents they are **** parents for deciding what their kids need during a school day, or the other part...

Because one is far more serious than the other...


To be fair, everyone can have an opinion on parenting because whilst not everyone HAS children, everyone HAS BEEN a child, so it is relevant to everyone. Like… they did have parents and had friends with parents and can make a judgement call on what was and wasn’t working.

I won’t disagree that becoming a parent offers a different perspective, just as hitting the different “stages” does (e.g. I had all sorts of ideas about what parenting a teen would be like that went out the window when one actually hit adolescence).

But being able to offer different perspectives doesn’t mean that someone with no kids has “no perspective” - especially when not all parents are in agreement.

As a rule of thumb, I think if someone with no kids is being repeatedly told the same thing by EVERYONE who does have kids then it would be sensible to listen. But if people who are parents are not in agreement on an issue then… :shrug: all perspectives are surely valid.

Obviously it’s rarely as simple as “good parents” and “bad parents”, just good and bad decisions, and all parents will have a mix of both.

[Cherie]

I’ve heard some schools of thought (escuse the noun) that suggest they could be incorporated into classes in creative ways as well, although personally I am against that but from another angle: I think it opens up an awful lot of inequality and competition between kids… some kids breezing through on new or newish “flagship” handsets whilst other frustratedly wait for their £50 Alcatel (or obsolete model phone) to load the app at all.

My wife (and to be fair to her, she is a heavy phone user for work) gets the “newest” flagship model every 2 years which means my eldest also gets a fairly new top brand phone every 2 years, but it’s really as a byproduct of my wife liking to get the newest one every upgrade. I’d be wary of a situation where kids start being EXPECTED to have a phone as part of school equipment.

There’s already been enough of that with the lockdown situation; some kids with geeky dads having no tech issues because they’re doing their school work on a 32” 4K screen on a gaming pc, while others are in the google classroom chat crying and frustrated because the ****ey Chromebook provided by the council won’t even load the work.

“Tech privilege” could quickly become a thing. It’s not even necessarily a money issue, my daughter has friends from properly well-off families who just “don’t do tech” and don’t allow the kids to have a pc / they themselves are happy with older phones so the kids have REALLY ancient ones. Usually the kids who were “later in life” to be honest and have parents already into their 50’s (and who are this a bit backwards and don’t really understand how integrated tech is into everything these days).

bit harsh, my phone is about 5 years old, only because I have no interest in phones, and I don't agree with changing a phone every 5 minutes, my eldest son who is very techy has a 5 year old phone as well, mainly because he is not into buying new stuff, his current coat he bought when he started Uni, which was 5 years ago now, when I suggest he gets a new coat he says what for, this one is fine :laugh: so its not all about being 'backwards' :hmph:

[user104658]

bit harsh, my phone is about 5 years old, only because I have no interest in phones, and I don't agree with changing a phone every 5 minutes, my eldest son who is very techy has a 5 year old phone as well, mainly because he is not into buying new stuff, his current coat he bought when he started Uni, which was 5 years ago now, when I suggest he gets a new coat he says what for, this one is fine :laugh: so its not all about being 'backwards' :hmph:


Ok fair enough it depends on what you use things for - I personally agree on phones, despite being techy, I’m not all that arsed for them and so long as they do the basics (WhatsApp, Tapatalk :hee:, banking apps) I don’t really care what phone I have… I’d rather spend available tech funds on a PC upgrade or a laptop than a phone (you could get a top of the line powerhouse of a laptop for the monthly cost of a flagship phone, which is pretty crazy).

But the overall message remains the same - if you want to do any “heavier” work on a phone then older or cheaper ones are frustrating and slow vs newer ones so if all the kids have different phones, it’s an inequality in terms of their learning. My daughter always has decent phones but it’s only because my wife gets herself new phones. I certainly wouldn’t want to feel “forced” into spending that sort of money every couple of years (or a large monthly contract outgoing) because it was necessary for school.

[bots]

my family get tech hand me downs from me all the time, and i'm an old fart TS (tsk tsk)

But yes, the world of tech is not an equal one at any demographic for any number of reasons and children's education should be equal opportunity as far as is possible

[ThomasC]

Any parent who sends their kids to school without a mobile phone is negligent imo.

Well, actually, I would find any parent sending their kid to school and not dropping them off negligent!! Unless they are getting school transport. I don't think at that age a child should be made to go get a bus on there own. Depending on age obviously but unless you're reaching 15/16 then I don't really think it's acceptable imo.



Really at the end of the day, there’s no way to actually impose a ban anyway without repeatedly searching through kids stuff which is 1) not allowed and an invasion of privacy and 2) impossible in terms of time and resources… kids will just bring them anyway and keep them in their bag.

They weren’t allowed at my daughter’s primary school but most kids had them for the final two years… and by the end the teachers knew fine well they had them, it was just a sort of unspoken agreement of “we know it’s in your bag, but so long as it’s not seen on school grounds no one is going to say anything”.

It would just end up like that everywhere; people would have them in their bag on silent. How would anyone know?

The one thing they did come down on hard was if anyone was ever caught taking pictures/making videos in school. I think it happened twice in 2 years though.

Searching children's stuff is actually allowed, but you have to have sufficient grounds.

[ThomasC]

I’ve heard some schools of thought (escuse the noun) that suggest they could be incorporated into classes in creative ways as well, although personally I am against that but from another angle: I think it opens up an awful lot of inequality and competition between kids… some kids breezing through on new or newish “flagship” handsets whilst other frustratedly wait for their £50 Alcatel (or obsolete model phone) to load the app at all.

My wife (and to be fair to her, she is a heavy phone user for work) gets the “newest” flagship model every 2 years which means my eldest also gets a fairly new top brand phone every 2 years, but it’s really as a byproduct of my wife liking to get the newest one every upgrade. I’d be wary of a situation where kids start being EXPECTED to have a phone as part of school equipment.

There’s already been enough of that with the lockdown situation; some kids with geeky dads having no tech issues because they’re doing their school work on a 32” 4K screen on a gaming pc, while others are in the google classroom chat crying and frustrated because the ****ey Chromebook provided by the council won’t even load the work.

“Tech privilege” could quickly become a thing. It’s not even necessarily a money issue, my daughter has friends from properly well-off families who just “don’t do tech” and don’t allow the kids to have a pc / they themselves are happy with older phones so the kids have REALLY ancient ones. Usually the kids who were “later in life” to be honest and have parents already into their 50’s (and who are this a bit backwards and don’t really understand how integrated tech is into everything these days).

You could say this about anything and everything.

It's life. You don't know what you don't have.

Parents should bring their children up to be thankful for what they have got not what they haven't.

As a child I wanted a lot of things and didn't get them. Tough titty.

[user104658]

You could say this about anything and everything.

It's life. You don't know what you don't have.

Parents should bring their children up to be thankful for what they have got not what they haven't.

As a child I wanted a lot of things and didn't get them. Tough titty.


I’m not talking about simple “mine is better than yours” competition, I’m saying that if they go down the route of actually using phones/apps as part of lessons (as has been suggested before) then there is a literal imbalance in terms of learning because of “tech inequality” - e.g. a kid with an iPhone 12 being half way through their work while the kid rocking a Galaxy S6 is still waiting for the app to finish installing.

[ThomasC]

I’m not talking about simple “mine is better than yours” competition, I’m saying that if they go down the route of actually using phones/apps as part of lessons (as has been suggested before) then there is a literal imbalance in terms of learning because of “tech inequality” - e.g. a kid with an iPhone 12 being half way through their work while the kid rocking a Galaxy S6 is still waiting for the app to finish installing.

Yeah, but this isn't going to happen and if it did then the school would probably provide the equipment.

Just as you wouldn't go into a science lesson and be asked to provide your own bunsen burner :joker:

[AnnieK]

Well, actually, I would find any parent sending their kid to school and not dropping them off negligent!! Unless they are getting school transport. I don't think at that age a child should be made to go get a bus on there own. Depending on age obviously but unless you're reaching 15/16 then I don't really think it's acceptable imo.





Searching children's stuff is actually allowed, but you have to have sufficient grounds.

What about parents who have to be at work before kids start school? Dropping them off is fantastic, in theory, but people have to work :shrug:

[ThomasC]

What about parents who have to be at work before kids start school? Dropping them off is fantastic, in theory, but people have to work :shrug:

Well they need to assess their situation.

A child's safety is more important than them getting in on time.

Speak to your employer. Change your job, make it work. Each organisation should have a policy and procedure on flexible working patterns in relation to childcare and/or adaptations. It's a privilege to have a child.

The amount of children I see walking alone who look knee high to a grasshopper is ridiculous.

[Tom4784]

Deleted Post

[Alf]

The object of School is to learn Maths, English and Science. You can't do that if you're giving all your attention to Tiktok, Snapchat and Facebook instead.

I can’t believe this rule is not already in place.

[ThomasC]

The object of School is to learn Maths, English and Science. You can't do that if you're giving all your attention to Tiktok, Snapchat and Facebook instead.

I can’t believe this rule is not already in place.

Well it already is.

All schools will have a policy on the use of mobile phones.

5 pages on this :joker:

It already happens, but children are children and will push boundaries.

[Crimson Dynamo]

https://schoolsweek.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/Anna-McShane-exp-140px.jpg

When I reflect on my own classroom experience – impromptu bag searches for
lost/stolen phones that pull in three members of staff; managing the fallout of a
sext; time spent liaising with police to circumvent a fight planned over a
WhatsApp message in the PE changing rooms; students late to class finishing a
level of their game – I know phones are an unnecessary distraction that takes
teachers away from what they are ultimately there to do.

Banning phones from the classroom shouldn’t be dismissed as a political dog
whistle but as a common-sense way to help get the best outcomes for pupils.
Just as taking children out of school for a holiday during term is now widely
seen as unacceptable, other avoidable distractions from learning should be
treated the same way.

Now is the time to remove all mobiles from every school, and to put this tired
old debate behind us for good.

https://schoolsweek.co.uk/no-ifs-no-buts-a-national-phone-ban-is-necessary-now/

[Tom4784]

Deleted Post

[Crimson Dynamo]

'I didn't have this technology in schools in my day, so you shouldn't either!!!'

This move is nothing more than a political dog whistle, a way to appeal to gammon while achieving absolutely nothing.

Smart people would make use of phones in education to help engage students, but the government is not run by smart people and it doesn't appeal to them either.

what a pity you did not read what the teacher said above you :joker:

"Banning phones from the classroom shouldn’t be dismissed as a political dog
whistle but as a common-sense way to help get the best outcomes for pupils."

oop

[Tom4784]

Deleted Post

[Alf]

That's her opinion, it's not fact. Is it time for me to yet again to teach the guy old enough to be my dad about the difference between fact and opinion and how to distinguish between the two?Is LT allowed to concentrate on his phone whilst you're teaching him?

[Crimson Dynamo]

Is LT allowed to concentrate on his phone whilst you're teaching him?

:joker:

[Crimson Dynamo]

That's her opinion, it's not fact. Is it time for me to yet again to teach the guy old enough to be my dad about the difference between fact and opinion and how to distinguish between the two?

the only person who said fact is you

do pay attention in class

[Tom4784]

Deleted Post

[Crimson Dynamo]

Bit of a flop attempt at a joke, considering kids don't sit in class on their phones but I'm sure you'll have your friends pretending to wheeze about how funny you are while everyone else cringes.



You quoted her opinion like it was a fact that shut down what I had to say, despite the fact that it had no real relevance beyond it her own opinion on the matter. I shouldn't have to explain something so simple. You probably didn't have mobile phones when you were in school so what's your excuse for being so incompetent at basic concepts such as reading comprehensions and differentiating between facts and opinions?

so you got called out and you decided to insult me

[Alf]

Bit of a flop attempt at a joke, considering kids don't sit in class on their phones but I'm sure you'll have your friends pretending to wheeze about how funny you are while everyone else cringes.



You quoted her opinion like it was a fact that shut down what I had to say, despite the fact that it had no real relevance beyond it her own opinion on the matter. I shouldn't have to explain something so simple. You probably didn't have mobile phones when you were in school so what's your excuse for being so incompetent at basic concepts such as reading comprehensions and differentiating between facts and opinions?I don't mind you criticising my jokes, I can take it, I'm a man.

[Tom4784]

Deleted Post

[Tom4784]

Deleted Post

[ThomasC]

ORDERRRRR

[user104658]

Well they need to assess their situation.

A child's safety is more important than them getting in on time.

Speak to your employer. Change your job, make it work. Each organisation should have a policy and procedure on flexible working patterns in relation to childcare and/or adaptations. It's a privilege to have a child.

The amount of children I see walking alone who look knee high to a grasshopper is ridiculous.


What a load of utter drivel, I suspect this is indeed one of the areas where people who have no experience of being a parent should perhaps listen to people with kids.

“Knee high to a grasshopper” I agree, I don’t think kids under 10 should be making their own way to or from school, but beyond that, phased independence is absolutely vital to normal childhood development. The idea that kids should be escorted to and from the school gate right up until age 15/16 and (presumably?) not allowed other independence outside of the house is completely ludicrous and unrealistic.

If you live in a particularly risky inner-city/town area then there are SOMETIMES other considerations, but really that’s the exception. There is absolutely nothing wrong with encouraging teenagers to responsibly make their way to and from school, and in fact I’d argue that those who are hand-held until 16 are going to find themselves woefully ill-prepared for the world in their later teens and early adulthood.

[ThomasC]

What a load of utter drivel, I suspect this is indeed one of the areas where people who have no experience of being a parent should perhaps listen to people with kids.

“Knee high to a grasshopper” I agree, I don’t think kids under 10 should be making their own way to or from school, but beyond that, phased independence is absolutely vital to normal childhood development. The idea that kids should be escorted to and from the school gate right up until age 15/16 and (presumably?) not allowed other independence outside of the house is completely ludicrous and unrealistic.

If you live in a particularly risky inner-city/town area then there are SOMETIMES other considerations, but really that’s the exception. There is absolutely nothing wrong with encouraging teenagers to responsibly make their way to and from school, and in fact I’d argue that those who are hand-held until 16 are going to find themselves woefully ill-prepared for the world in their later teens and early adulthood.

I said unless you're 15 or 16 so was suggesting younger.

Resilience helps children and young people develop, but it needs to age appropriate and safe.

I also said alone.

I don't need to be a parent to understand. I have more knowledge about developmental progress and experience looking after children and young people than your average because I do it day in day out and am trained to do so.

A lot of your words that you've written yourself not mine.

[ThomasC]

And there's more than other considerations.

Extremism, grooming, child sexual exploitation, gang rivalry, county lines etc etc.

So I wouldn't just say sometimes other considerations need to be made.

Hence, I wouldn't really advocate a 14 year old travelling to and from school ALONE. It would depend on circumstances, the area, location assessment, statistics, amount of released offenders within area, safer neighbourhood, mobile phone on them, check in etc. Also, their own maturity, stranger awareness and their level of development.

[user104658]

In an ideal world, perhaps not, the part that’s drivel is in trying to project an ideal world onto reality; a world where parents always have understanding employers, or can just “get another job” if they don’t, or that they “shouldn’t have had kids” if it wasn’t perfectly planned to the last detail (and in a world where circumstances don’t change).

I can tell that your position comes from a theoretical place of education/training because it bears very little practical utility in most people’s real-world scenarios. “Textbook”nonsense. It’s fine to have optimal theory, trying to insist on a world where optimal theory works in practice is flawed, as anyone with practical experience knows all too well.

It reminds me a touch of childless “super”nanny Jo Frost belching a load of utter ****e on television about how to manage toddlers by sticking them in the corner.

[AnnieK]

I know what a privilege children are. I spent years in a cycle of fertility treatments, failures, heartache before finally having my child after years of trying.

In an ideal world, I would wrap him up in cotton wool, hand deliver him to school and not let him out of my sight. I have an understanding employer, I have never missed a special assembly, sports day, performance etc but I also have to pay the mortgage, put food on the table, clothe him etc etc. During his primary years I have had to rely massively on my widowed dad to assist with school runs as as understanding as my employer is, its not feasible for me to be able to change my hours as there would have to be some kick back somewhere, less money, working in the evenings, weekend working.....and that's my "mum" time.

[Beso]

One rule for others, another for his friends.


Absolute bull****e.

[ThomasC]

In an ideal world, perhaps not, the part that’s drivel is in trying to project an ideal world onto reality; a world where parents always have understanding employers, or can just “get another job” if they don’t, or that they “shouldn’t have had kids” if it wasn’t perfectly planned to the last detail (and in a world where circumstances don’t change).

I can tell that your position comes from a theoretical place of education/training because it bears very little practical utility in most people’s real-world scenarios. “Textbook”nonsense. It’s fine to have optimal theory, trying to insist on a world where optimal theory works in practice is flawed, as anyone with practical experience knows all too well.

It reminds me a touch of childless “super”nanny Jo Frost belching a load of utter ****e on television about how to manage toddlers by sticking them in the corner.

RUDE!

With all due respect you don't know my background.

Text book and experience. My position comes from working practice, not just education and training. You can have both you know and I'm not a university student who has decided one day I want to work in a profession and had no experience actually doing it.

No, what Jo Frost does is teach negative and positive reinforcement which actually works very well..... although not for everyone, but that holistic working/not one size fits all etc. Maybe if more parents adopted it they wouldn't have such spoilt children.

Yes, I know it's not that easy trying to fit work around children. It never will be, but I know lots of people who do it to keep their children safe.

[ThomasC]

I know what a privilege children are. I spent years in a cycle of fertility treatments, failures, heartache before finally having my child after years of trying.

In an ideal world, I would wrap him up in cotton wool, hand deliver him to school and not let him out of my sight. I have an understanding employer, I have never missed a special assembly, sports day, performance etc but I also have to pay the mortgage, put food on the table, clothe him etc etc. During his primary years I have had to rely massively on my widowed dad to assist with school runs as as understanding as my employer is, its not feasible for me to be able to change my hours as there would have to be some kick back somewhere, less money, working in the evenings, weekend working.....and that's my "mum" time.

Yeah, but you've made it work and well done to you for it.

I just can't advocate young children walking alone unless measures are put in place and there would be an age I would say not at all.

There's a fine balance that needs to be struck.

[Beso]

Oh absolutely, I don't think they should be used in school but I am saying logistically I don't know how it will be enforced

Simple, parents keep the phone in a safe place at home, perched for the kids grubby fingers to grab as soon as they come through the door.

[Beso]

That's her opinion, it's not fact. Is it time for me to yet again to teach the guy old enough to be my dad about the difference between fact and opinion and how to distinguish between the two?

It is fact, schools have computers available to every child when needed at school.

They dont need their phones to learn.:nono:

[Beso]

What's the stats for kids being robbed of their phones on the way to and from school?

[ThomasC]

What's the stats for kids being robbed of their phones on the way to and from school?

Why don't you go and be silly in Chat & Games?

This is Serious Debates and you're well out of your league. :joker:

[Beso]

Why don't you go and be silly in Chat & Games?

This is Serious Debates and you're well out of your league. :joker:

Theres nothing silly about it at all.

Only a silly head wouldnt see what I mean by it..

Imo, mobile phones in the hand of a child going to and from school will actually place them in harm's way a lot more than if they didnt.:shrug:

[user104658]

RUDE!

With all due respect you don't know my background.

Text book and experience. My position comes from working practice, not just education and training. You can have both you know and I'm not a university student who has decided one day I want to work in a profession and had no experience actually doing it.

No, what Jo Frost does is teach negative and positive reinforcement which actually works very well..... although not for everyone, but that holistic working/not one size fits all etc. Maybe if more parents adopted it they wouldn't have such spoilt children.

Yes, I know it's not that easy trying to fit work around children. It never will be, but I know lots of people who do it to keep their children safe.


I know you don’t have children, and thus I know your experience and thoughts on how parenting should work - much like Jo Frost’s - are based solely in theory no matter how long you’ve been doing any job. Those are just the facts and doggedly attempting to argue otherwise is quite staggeringly arrogant. Not only that but you’ve also mentioned in other threads (home improvement thread) that you live with your parents so you neither have first hand experience of raising children, nor first hand experience of the juggling act of running a family home whilst parenting, and yet you’re handing out judgement on both?

You might want to reconsider who is being “rude”.

On top of that if you think Jo Frost uses effective techniques or that children “wouldn’t be so spoiled” if more people subscribed to her brand of parenting behaviourism, not only are you simply parroting theory, you’re parroting trash.

[Niamh.]

I know you don’t have children, and thus I know your experience and thoughts on how parenting should work - much like Jo Frost’s - are based solely in theory no matter how long you’ve been doing any job. Those are just the facts and doggedly attempting to argue otherwise is quite staggeringly arrogant. Not only that but you’ve also mentioned in other threads (home improvement thread) that you live with your parents so you neither have first hand experience of raising children, nor first hand experience of the juggling act of running a family home whilst parenting, and yet you’re handing out judgement on both?

You might want to reconsider who is being “rude”.

On top of that if you think Jo Frost uses effective techniques or that children “wouldn’t be so spoiled” if more people subscribed to her brand of parenting behaviourism, not only are you simply parroting theory, you’re parroting trash.Every child is different, what works well for one might not for another, different personalities etc

[ThomasC]

I know you don’t have children, and thus I know your experience and thoughts on how parenting should work - much like Jo Frost’s - are based solely in theory no matter how long you’ve been doing any job. Those are just the facts and doggedly attempting to argue otherwise is quite staggeringly arrogant. Not only that but you’ve also mentioned in other threads (home improvement thread) that you live with your parents so you neither have first hand experience of raising children, nor first hand experience of the juggling act of running a family home whilst parenting, and yet you’re handing out judgement on both?

You might want to reconsider who is being “rude”.

On top of that if you think Jo Frost uses effective techniques or that children “wouldn’t be so spoiled” if more people subscribed to her brand of parenting behaviourism, not only are you simply parroting theory, you’re parroting trash.

Theory and practice. Think you will find that they go hand in hand. I don't need to have children to understand the difficulties parents face. I provide solutions to them quite regularly and put support in place. I also happen to deal with some very complex cases and child protection

I can still have an opinion. That is what forums are for.

Theory links in with psychology so to have a grasp of it does help. I'm not just parroting theory. You're the one banging on about theory

Parenting isn't a one size fits all and so there isn't a certain way it 'should work' to quote you. There are safe ways though in the context of this thread.

Well I don't think a lot of children would be spoilt if there were consequences to behaviours or go off the rails because there are no consequences. I'm not on about children with disabilities. Completely different.

But you obviously know more than me because you have children.

[ThomasC]

Every child is different, what works well for one might not for another, different personalities etc

Spot on.

[ThomasC]

And juggling?

You're misinformed and making presumptions

I constantly have to juggle getting numerous children up for school and believe you me, I have a lot less time than you when I'm directing staff and having to deal with incidents.

Logistically, it's not really comparable to a home setting because you have procedures you wouldn't have.

So don't lecture me and think because I don't have children I don't understand or am not entitled to an opinion on it.

[user104658]

I didn't say you're not entitled to an opinion on it. I said you're not entitled to a judgement on it - because your professional experience does not mean you have any idea about the realities of parenting, and thus, you are in no position to be telling people how they should or shouldn't be parenting, lecturing parents that "their child's safety is more important than getting to work on time", telling parents that if their situation isn't ideal they should "just change jobs" and "make it work". Preaching to parents that "having children is a privilege" - from an outside perspective - in a thinly-veiled suggestion that if they can't shift everything around to fit your idea of what they should be doing, they're... what? Getting it wrong? Are undeserving of the privilege? And if not - why patronisingly mention that "it's a privilege" whilst handing out your unrealistic judgements and expectations?

I don't know what your job is but I sincerely, sincerely hope you're not dosing up parents with this pretentious, condescending hot air in person. If you are, please stop it. If people are struggling or asking for advice, by all means offer what you have. If people are being genuinely neglectful or abusive, by all means be a part of sorting that out. But passing judgement over minor things when you have literally zero experience of the realities and nuances of raising children? Nah. I have no time for this, sorry.

[ThomasC]

I didn't say you're not entitled to an opinion on it. I said you're not entitled to a judgement on it - because your professional experience does not mean you have any idea about the realities of parenting, and thus, you are in no position to be telling people how they should or shouldn't be parenting, lecturing parents that "their child's safety is more important than getting to work on time", telling parents that if their situation isn't ideal they should "just change jobs" and "make it work". Preaching to parents that "having children is a privilege" - from an outside perspective - in a thinly-veiled suggestion that if they can't shift everything around to fit your idea of what they should be doing, they're... what? Getting it wrong? Are undeserving of the privilege? And if not - why patronisingly mention that "it's a privilege" whilst handing out your unrealistic judgements and expectations?

I don't know what your job is but I sincerely, sincerely hope you're not dosing up parents with this pretentious, condescending hot air in person. If you are, please stop it. If people are struggling or asking for advice, by all means offer what you have. If people are being genuinely neglectful or abusive, by all means be a part of sorting that out. But passing judgement over minor things when you have literally zero experience of the realities and nuances of raising children? Nah. I have no time for this, sorry.

Well, yes I stand by that I think any child's safety is more important than getting to time on work. Really? Yes, change of job would probably be better, a lot of parents do it so they can work around their children. If not, as I said, you make it work. Having children is a privilege. A lot of people can't have children. You decide whether you want one or there are other unforeseen reasons. Different debate.

I never said anyone was getting anything wrong. Your words! I expressed my opinion on an age that I feel children should be taken to school and not left to walk ALONE.

I don't think they are unrealistic. All parents make sacrifices and try to do their best. I don't find a child's safety a minor issue. I would find a young person walking to school on there own with no measures in place concerning!

I can pass a judgement. You disagree, that's fine.

Zero experience and just professional?? I was raised with a family member who had extreme emotional behavioural difficulties. I lived it day in, day out. But what, I don't understand the juggles, can't emphasise and understand? I have raised children, not my own, but others neglected and in the care system. I've done a lot of the same things you would do as if they were your own. I've seen children past from pillar to post within the care system, foster families, residential etc.

And realities to posting on a forum are a tad different to dealing with something in a professional matter. Diplomacy and a way of going about it, but I'm child centres so yes it would be raised if I came across a situation where a vunersble child was going to school unaccompanied and look at solutions to that.

I'm glad you have no more time for this conversation because you have unfairly shut down my judgement and got on your high horse because you're a birth Father.

I don't need to justify myself to you. Crack on :dance:

[user104658]

There’s a lot of words there but the crux is … still … justification in passing judgement on things you have no personal experience of. I do disagree that you’re in a position to pass judgement, entirely.

If you have a clocking out time, you are not a parent, nor do you know what it is like to be a parent, anywhere even close to the point of being able to pass judgement on parents.

No one was talking about vulnerable children, unless you’re classifying all children as vulnerable. I can think of no job nor position you would have where you would have ANY right to be intervening, passing comment or “finding solutions” in a situation where the child had not already been classed as at risk or vulnerable and with damn good reason.

Maybe I’ve gone off the deep end on this one a little because - granted - I’m a bit tetchy lately but something about this just does not pass the vibe check at all and has properly gotten right on my tits.

[Tom4784]

Deleted Post

[arista]

Kids will be able to take their phones to the school.
That is essential, for total safety.

The Point next year, first month
is to have a class without Mobile phones in them.
All very logical.

[Ammi]

…there are lots of reasons why parents aren’t able to personally take their children to school…it’s not just something that’s job related….many parents have children at more than one school so aren’t able always able to do all school runs and younger siblings as well can create struggles….yeah, all children are different and family situations are as well so that has to be accommodated in judgement…and when a family needs wrap around care by a team, it’s the whole family, including the parents and it may be decided that walking to school is a good option for a child for whatever reason…

[thesheriff443]

Why can’t the phone just be put on flight mode while in school

Mobile phones dont stop kids getting run over, stabbed abducted murdered/raped
In fact I’d say phones and the internet causes more harm and death to kids than them not having one

[thesheriff443]

To give a real life example a couple of weeks ago a joint friend phoned my brother to say his daughter by an ex partner was being groomed through her phone.

[AnnieK]

I agree that you have to keep a close eye on mobile and internet usage but they are also a good thing. My son is an only one - because of mobile technology, he was able to still see and speak to his friends whilst we were in lockdown etc. I had held off actually getting him a phone (and was planning on not getting one before high school next year) but he was able to cope much better with the forced isolation being able to see and speak to his friends.

I go through his phone every night to ensure there is nothing sinister or out of line going on and I limit his time on there but I know once he goes to high school next September I will feel a whole lot more comfortable giving him a little more freedom if he has a phone on him and I can contact him / him me if needed.

[ThomasC]

Why can’t the phone just be put on flight mode while in school

Mobile phones dont stop kids getting run over, stabbed abducted murdered/raped
In fact I’d say phones and the internet causes more harm and death to kids than them not having one

6 of 1, half a dozen of the other comes to mind.

Phones can be great, but also cause a lot of problems.

Flight mode would rely on the children. It doesn't matter what policy is in place or if the government ban them, the more you tell someone not to do something, the more they probably will.

I standby that it's the schools who should implement their own policies on mobile phones which is what already happens. Government intervention will have little effect

To give a real life example a couple of weeks ago a joint friend phoned my brother to say his daughter by an ex partner was being groomed through her phone.

Unfortunate realities.

[ThomasC]

…there are lots of reasons why parents aren’t able to personally take their children to school…it’s not just something that’s job related….many parents have children at more than one school so aren’t able always able to do all school runs and younger siblings as well can create struggles….yeah, all children are different and family situations are as well so that has to be accommodated in judgement…and when a family needs wrap around care by a team, it’s the whole family, including the parents and it may be decided that walking to school is a good option for a child for whatever reason…

Yeah I agree and it's all blown out of proportion.

It's so individualistic to the person, but there's an age it just wouldn't be safe at all due to the developmental process. One 13 year old might not have the maturity of another 13 year old as we all progress at different levels.....down to the discretion of the parent within the scope of parental responsibility.

Unfortunately, we live in a world where some parents just don't care for whatever reasons.

[Ammi]

Yeah I agree and it's all blown out of proportion.

It's so individualistic to the person, but there's an age it just wouldn't be safe at all due to the developmental process. One 13 year old might not have the maturity of another 13 year old as we all progress at different levels.....down to the discretion of the parent within the scope of parental responsibility.

Unfortunately, we live in a world where some parents just don't care for whatever reasons.

…in my own experiences also, there are parents who do care but struggle in parenting…maybe their own mental health and well being is poor etc…?…which is why families need care and support at times…and why it’s important to know a whole story, you know…

[ThomasC]

…in my own experiences also, there are parents who do care but struggle in parenting…maybe their own mental health and well being is poor etc…?…which is why families need care and support at times…and why it’s important to know a whole story, you know…

Yeah without doubt.

We struggled massively and I’d say that is an understatement.

Not because my parents didn’t care though. To the contrary.

[user104658]

To give a real life example a couple of weeks ago a joint friend phoned my brother to say his daughter by an ex partner was being groomed through her phone.


While the immediate response to this is often “this is why kids shouldn’t have phones” my stance on it is actually the complete opposite. The tech exists and kids/young people having access to it is inevitable… so I think the younger you start having supervised access, having these conversations, explaining the risks and dangers in a “safe” environment… the safer kids are generally in the long run. If you stop a kid having any access to these things until they’re let’s say 13, which I know many parents do, you’re kind of throwing them in at the deep end totally naive to the absolute plethora of perverts and predators that are out there.

I’ve actually anecdotally seen this is practice already. I’d say we’re perhaps unusually open with our older daughter (12), we have mature discussions with her about all sorts of things, and very frank conversations about the risks of online strangers etc.

Her friend who lives round the corners (she she has known since they were toddlers) has always been very tech restricted until very recently. Couple of weeks ago, this girl is talking to some random, who ends up sending her nudes :facepalm:… she’s only 12 ffs… anyway she called my daughter upset, and my daughter oh-so-tactfully sighed and said, “Go and tell your mum and don’t talk to random people on discord, it was obviously going to be a paedo!!”. We obviously then asked her wtf was going on and made sure the girls mum actually knew.

But yes tl;dr teenagers are going to have online access and I think it’s ESSENTIAL to have them be “internet savvy” as older children before they reach that stage. If they go in knowledgeable they are far, far less likely to be duped or keep secrets.

[bots]

Britney's mother
has said Britney needs to pick her own Lawyer

is she going to be doing that on her mobile phone at school?

[arista]

is she going to be doing that on her mobile phone at school?




Posted on wrong thread