Gunman in Plymouth…

[Smithy]

https://twitter.com/brnewsflash/status/1425894863061626880?s=21

[bots]

1425894526468689926

[Denver]

There has been multiple fatalities but it is not terror related

[hijaxers]

5 fatalities ~ gunman shot dead , lord knows what this is about but its really awful and familes have lost innocent loved ones.

[Cherie]

5 fatalities ~ gunman shot dead , lord knows what this is about but its really awful and familes have lost innocent loved ones.

A domestic maybe?

[joeysteele]

Another senseless tragedy.
Just crazy.

[Mystic Mock]

Well you know the world is going bonkers when Plymouth is having a terrorist attack.

Imo shooting five people at random is a terrorist attack, whether it's ISIS related or not.

[GoldHeart]

Well you know the world is going bonkers when Plymouth is having a terrorist attack.

Imo shooting five people at random is a terrorist attack, whether it's ISIS related or not.

Agree
it's horrific , and plymouth of all places aswell .

[arista]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-58195419

[Police in Plymouth have confirmed
six people - including a suspected
gunman - have died in a firearms incident.
Devon and Cornwall Police were
called to Biddick Drive in the Keyham area at about 18:10 BST on Thursday.
Police said three females, two males and the suspect died.
All are thought to have died from gunshot wounds and
relatives have been informed.
An MP said one of those killed was under 10 years old and
more people were being treated in hospital.]


https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/BC2B/production/_119917184_mailpage1-nc.png

[arista]

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/FFBF/production/_119917456_mirrorfront13-nc.png

[arista]

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/23D3/production/_119917190_times.001.1gm-nc.png

[hijaxers]

A domestic maybe?

Could have started that way but i heard that 2 dog walkers were shot.

[Denver]

6 dead including a child

[Nicky91]

not being seen as a terror attack?



and on our news in my nation our reporter said they aren't ruling out that it was a terror attack


:conf:

[bots]

The gunman

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/4CE1/production/_119918691_mediaitem119918687.jpg

Eyewitness Sharron, who lives nearby and did not want to give her full name, said what happened was "horrendous and so sad".

"Firstly, there was shouting, followed by gunshots - three possibly four to begin with," she said.

"This was when the shooter kicked in the door of a house and randomly started shooting. He ran from the house shooting as he ran and proceeded to shoot at a few people in the linear park up from the drive."

She said the "shooter proceeded along Royal Navy Avenue still shooting".

Another witness, Robert Pinkerton, said he "walked around the corner" and "bumped into a bloke with a shotgun". He said the man was dressed all in black


from https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-58195419

[Oliver_W]

A domestic maybe?

I'd be interested to hear what his (apparent) motives were meant to be. "Nutter who goes crazy with a gun" and "domestic dispute gone too far" aren't teeechnicaaaally terror related. Was it one of these? Or was it driven by everyone's favourite bogeyman-de-jour Qanon?

[Livia]

I've not had the tv or radio on since yesterday... I'm only just hearing about this. It's more the kind of thing you're associate with the US. Horrible...

[Cherie]

I'd be interested to hear what his (apparent) motives were meant to be. "Nutter who goes crazy with a gun" and "domestic dispute gone too far" aren't teeechnicaaaally terror related. Was it one of these? Or was it driven by everyone's favourite bogeyman-de-jour Qanon?

The door of a home was kicked by the Gunman so I am thinking a custody dispute or something, just awful

[arista]

not being seen as a terror attack?



and on our news in my nation our reporter said they aren't ruling out that it was a terror attack


:conf:


Of course Nicky
at that time ,not much info.

[Smithy]

He was an Incel by the sounds of it, he had a YouTube channel where he posted rants about that sort of stuff

[user104658]

He was an Incel by the sounds of it, he had a YouTube channel where he posted rants about that sort of stuff

And this will still be deemed "not terrorism". The world needs to wake up and realise that attacks by these people are increasing, and are ABSOLUTELY terrorism.

These men are radicalised online, full to the brim with hatred (mostly for women, but also for anyone who isn't "one of them", as with any other terrorism) and commit horrific acts of violence. It's not "not terrorism" just because it's in the name of 4chan and not some deity or other.

[bots]

i think it was a terror attack from many different angles, but primarily because after shooting up the house, he then shot at bystanders in the street. That's the ultimate act of terrorism

[user104658]

It's really hard to get your head around when the person then shoots themself - as is often what happens. How do families of the victims you get closure on that? What do you do with that? All so pointless and meaningless, and it's just over, you just have to deal with it and move on because there's no justice to be had. Sickening.

[arista]

Live on all Media
Police Chief - Plymouth


Jake Davidson,22
used his pump action shotgun
he killed 5
and himself.


Left 2 people Injured in hospital.

[arista]

He was an Incel by the sounds of it, he had a YouTube channel where he posted rants about that sort of stuff


[Plymouth gunman was 23-year-old virgin
who posted rambling YouTube videos complaining
he was too 'fat and ugly' to have sex and
boasted about being a 'Terminator' before
'killing five including girl, five, and
family then shooting himself dead'

Jake Davison, 23, a bodybuilder obsessed with
not being attractive to women,
named locally as the killer
He spoke of affinity with 'incel' movement
whose misogynist members have carried out
mass murder in US
Gunman went on a rampage through
the streets of Plymouth last night killing
five people and then himself
He was seen kicked down the door
of a house in his street and then opening
fire on strangers in the street
Dozens of police remained at the scene
tonight trying to piece together the details
of Davison's bloodbath
A girl of five, two women and two men
died in the attack, as did Davison.
The majority were strangers to him]


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9890209/I-Terminator-Rambling-videos-fat-ugly-virgin-23-went-rampage-Plymouth.html

[bots]

one of the victims was a very young girl .... i just can't comprehend how someone could do that

[arista]

one of the victims was a very young girl .... i just can't comprehend how someone could do that



He was out of his mind.

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2021/08/13/08/46631509-9890209-image-a-1_1628840093943.jpg

[Ninastar]

What a ****. Glad he’s dead. I think all shooters/terrorists should just be killed on site rather than sending them to jail where they get the glory and fame they want

[arista]

One of them
Women he killed, he knew her.




He had a registered
fire arm.
To be confirmed which gun that was.


2 others are Injured
in Hospital now

[joeysteele]

Just so tragic.
It's sickening anyone loses life like this unnecessarily however a child too.

Really awful, heartbreaking.

[arista]

The Child he killed
was a 3 year old girl,

Just Confirmed on the news


The 2 Women were aged 51 & 56

The 2 Men were aged 43 & 59

[Cherie]

as the details of this are emerging it is so shocking people will be left scarred for life after what they witnessed, endured and heard.

[Tom4784]

Deleted Post

[Cherie]

One of them
Women he killed, he knew her.




He had a registered
fire arm.
To be confirmed which gun that was.


2 others are Injured
in Hospital now

Guessing it might be his Mum maybe

[Shaun]

Vermin. I can't really describe how angry and sickened I am by this...

[ThomasC]

Well you know the world is going bonkers when Plymouth is having a terrorist attack.

Imo shooting five people at random is a terrorist attack, whether it's ISIS related or not.

No, not necessairly.

Terrorism is normally political. This could have been mental health related.

And this will still be deemed "not terrorism". The world needs to wake up and realise that attacks by these people are increasing, and are ABSOLUTELY terrorism.

These men are radicalised online, full to the brim with hatred (mostly for women, but also for anyone who isn't "one of them", as with any other terrorism) and commit horrific acts of violence. It's not "not terrorism" just because it's in the name of 4chan and not some deity or other.

Incorrect, in my opinion.

Yes, attacks are increasing. It's not mostly against women. It's mostly against those who do not follow certain ideology regardless of sex..... ie religion based. FGM and religion based where the men are superior and women are just a commidity, yes, but in regards to terrorism I don't think you can say it's mainly women.

When a guy drove into people on the london bridge, he was aiming for people, not just women.

When Lee Rigby was slatered on our streets etc etc

Yes, online radicalism is huge. The people they recruit are vunerable themselves.

[bots]

The mother of the Plymouth gunman, Maxine Davison, and three-year-old Sophie Martyn have been named among the five victims of his shooting spree.

Ms Davison, 50, was shot and killed by her 22-year-old son Jake Davison at her home on Biddick Drive, Plymouth, on Thursday evening.

Davison went on to kill three-year-old Sophie, her father Lee Martyn, Stephen Washington and Kate Shepherd.

His attack lasted about six minutes before he turned the gun on himself.

In online videos Davison spoke of being "beaten down" and "defeated by life".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-58206101

[ThomasC]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ND9oW0VTIT4

This is mental health.

Psychosis and delusions of grandeur.

[Crimson Dynamo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ND9oW0VTIT4

This is mental health.

Psychosis and delusions of grandeur.

In that video he started off making a parallel about his struggle and that of humanity against the robots in terminator but ended by saying he imagined he was a terminator fighting to end humanity

the veil slipped

[ThomasC]

In that video he started off making a parallel about his struggle and that of humanity against the robots in terminator but ended by saying he imagined he was a terminator fighting to end humanity

the veil slipped

Well his thought process was very distorted.

It's an extreme case of mental health gone very wrong.

He acted out on his thoughts.

It's a tragedy for all involved.

[bots]

i don't understand people need to say ... nope that wasn't terrorism ... because, i'm sorry but it was an act of terror under any sensible definition. People wanting to classify it otherwise can precede it with political or religious if it fits better, but it's still an act of terror

[ThomasC]

i don't understand people need to say ... nope that wasn't terrorism ... because, i'm sorry but it was an act of terror under any sensible definition. People wanting to classify it otherwise can preceed it with political or religeous if it fits better, but it's still an act of terror

Well that's your opinion, but we have PACE and the criminal prosecution service for a reason and they would not be convicted of a terrorist related offence unless it was political.

Even the media and police have said this is not terrorist related.

Just because something causes 'terror' does not make it terrorism.

[hijaxers]

In that video he started off making a parallel about his struggle and that of humanity against the robots in terminator but ended by saying he imagined he was a terminator fighting to end humanity

the veil slipped

How the hell did this killer have a gun licence ?

[arista]

How the hell did this killer have a gun licence ?


Maybe 2 years back
he was a normal bloke

[hijaxers]

Maybe 2 years back
he was a normal bloke

Don't we all think the police are keeping a keen watch on people with gun licences ? esp if they show any signs of mental illness ~ this could have been stopped ~ no ones doing the checks obv.

[Crimson Dynamo]

maybe 2 years back
he was a normal bloke

he would have been 20 and so way should own a gun at that age

[arista]

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2021/08/13/18/46647865-0-image-m-19_1628874108172.jpg


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9891695/Girl-3-father-43-shot-Plymouth-incel-murdered-mum-51-hated.html

[The adopted three-year-old girl and her father, 43,
who were shot dead at random by 'incel' Plymouth gunman
as they walked home and were taken to hospital
where her mother works after rampage that left six dead
Jake Davison, 22, shot and killed mother, 50, at a
property in the Keyham area of Plymouth, Devon, last night
He then went outside and shot dead Sophie Martyn, 3, and
her father Lee, 43, with a pump-action shotgun
Davison then killed Stephen Washington, 59,
in nearby parkland, before shooting
dead Kate Shepherd, 66,
He also shot two other local residents
who are now being treated in
hospital for non-life
threatening injuries
Davison spoke of affinity
with 'incel' movement
whose misogynist members
have carried
out mass murder
YouTube and Facebook deleted his
hate-filled accounts - but only on the
day after he carried out massacre]

[arista]

Luke Pollard MP (Labour and Co-operative politician)
Live on Ch4HDnews
has says people look out for one and another
in Plymouth.

He says give the Police the space
to look into this crime.

[arista]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incel

The Incel group
Active in the Canada, USA, and UK

An expert (Ch4HDnews) says there are around 10,000
in the UK.


In the USA she says its 100,000's

[arista]

His Gun was taken off him late last year (after an Assault claim)
but that Pump Action Shot Gun was returned to him last month


Ch4HDnews Live.


Their reporter Clair Fallon
was brought up there.

[Babayaro.]

it was returned to him last month? ****ing hell man :facepalm:

[bots]

Having killed his mother, Davison left the property and immediately shot and killed Mr Martyn and his daughter on the street.

Stephen Washington, 59, was also killed, along with Kate Shepherd, 66, who was injured at the scene and died later at Derriford Hospital.

-------------------------------

I call that terrorism

[Cherie]

I thought pump action guns were illegal in the UK? What reason would someone have to hold one

[Tom4784]

Deleted Post

[Ashley.]

This is my hometown, where I live... and it is the sort of thing you expect to hear about in places like the US with relaxed laws and multiple shootings, but not here. I think a lot of people are staying inside today.

[user104658]

No, not necessairly.

Terrorism is normally political. This could have been mental health related.



Incorrect, in my opinion.

Yes, attacks are increasing. It's not mostly against women. It's mostly against those who do not follow certain ideology regardless of sex..... ie religion based. FGM and religion based where the men are superior and women are just a commidity, yes, but in regards to terrorism I don't think you can say it's mainly women.

When a guy drove into people on the london bridge, he was aiming for people, not just women.

When Lee Rigby was slatered on our streets etc etc

Yes, online radicalism is huge. The people they recruit are vunerable themselves.


As usual, you have literally no idea what you’re talking about, but on this occasion I can’t be bothered going too far into it. The PUA/MRA/Incel movements are no different to radical Islam or racial extremism, they do target women, repeatedly, it has been a growing problem for decades and this is 100% terrorism.

Just because it’s not a subsection of radicalised behaviour you were previously aware of doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. You would do well to actually read up on it, instead of dismissing it out of hand, because you aren’t aware of the issues women face.

[arista]

It's clear cut terrorism, really.


Yes Incel is Terrorism.

[arista]

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2021/08/13/21/46654243-0-image-m-9_1628888039637.jpg


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9891695/Girl-3-father-43-shot-Plymouth-incel-murdered-mum-51-hated.html

[rusticgal]

So so tragic…the lives he has ruined.

[Beso]

So so tragic…the lives he has ruined.

I dont get it at all gal, why?

[caprimint]

Disgusting and shocking crime. His mental health was obviously a complete mess judging by everything he said on Youtube

No, not necessairly.

Terrorism is normally political. This could have been mental health related.



Incorrect, in my opinion.

Yes, attacks are increasing. It's not mostly against women. It's mostly against those who do not follow certain ideology regardless of sex..... ie religion based. FGM and religion based where the men are superior and women are just a commidity, yes, but in regards to terrorism I don't think you can say it's mainly women.

When a guy drove into people on the london bridge, he was aiming for people, not just women.

When Lee Rigby was slatered on our streets etc etc

Yes, online radicalism is huge. The people they recruit are vunerable themselves.
I agree with all this

[user104658]

Do you think that an Islamic extremist making videos online saying that he’s going to blow people up in the name of an invisible man in the sky is demonstrating good mental health?

No of course not; it’s bat**** bonkers. But it’s still radicalisation, extremism and terrorism. Just like this.

He didn’t come up with this stuff himself, there are literally hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of these guys encouraging each other, winding each other up, and recruiting young confused people.

Just like any other terrorist group.

[arista]

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/14E58/production/_119929558_times1408.png

[arista]

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/19C0/production/_119929560_telegraph1408.png

[arista]

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/40D0/production/_119929561_mail1408.png

[arista]

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/67E0/production/_119929562_guardian1408.png

[arista]

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/B600/production/_119929564_express1408.png

[arista]

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/F233/production/_119930026_front14-1-1.png

[ThomasC]

It's clear cut terrorism, really.

:joker::joker::joker:

In your eyes, not the laws.

Nothing clear cut about it

[Cherie]

The picture of that family is heartbreaking, and to find out she was adopted so all the hoops they had to jump through to get her, just appalling

[ThomasC]

As usual, you have literally no idea what you’re talking about, but on this occasion I can’t be bothered going too far into it. The PUA/MRA/Incel movements are no different to radical Islam or racial extremism, they do target women, repeatedly, it has been a growing problem for decades and this is 100% terrorism.

Just because it’s not a subsection of radicalised behaviour you were previously aware of doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. You would do well to actually read up on it, instead of dismissing it out of hand, because you aren’t aware of the issues women face.

Do you think that an Islamic extremist making videos online saying that he’s going to blow people up in the name of an invisible man in the sky is demonstrating good mental health?

No of course not; it’s bat**** bonkers. But it’s still radicalisation, extremism and terrorism. Just like this.

He didn’t come up with this stuff himself, there are literally hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of these guys encouraging each other, winding each other up, and recruiting young confused people.

Just like any other terrorist group.

So basically you don’t want a debate. Well leave the forum then hunny as this is what serious debates is about.

You said it’s mostly aimed at women, I gave you examples of it not mainly being women, but that’s fine you dismiss that.

You need to look at the law as to what is classified terrorism. I’m sure that the police who study it have got it all wrong though :joker: seeing as they have not classed this as terrorism.

Intel, you’re putting 2 + 2 together to come up with 500. He killed men in this stack too.

Carry on though as you don’t want a debate. :dance:

[ThomasC]

Do you think that an Islamic extremist making videos online saying that he’s going to blow people up in the name of an invisible man in the sky is demonstrating good mental health?

No of course not; it’s bat**** bonkers. But it’s still radicalisation, extremism and terrorism. Just like this.

He didn’t come up with this stuff himself, there are literally hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of these guys encouraging each other, winding each other up, and recruiting young confused people.

Just like any other terrorist group.

He said hi,self he didn’t identify as Intel.

There are a lot of things which could have pushed him to do this and that might not include intel.

You should be a women’s activist seeing as you have such passionate views about mainly women this, mainly women that yet ignoring the bigger picture.

[bots]

he identified as part of a group that felt he had a right to have sex with women and took his revenge for not getting that on the biggest woman figure in his life, his mother. I don't know how much clearer it could be

That would have been bad enough, but the fact he then went on to murder random people passing in the street is another level. To deliberately murder a 3 year old little girl is just beyond words for me

[ThomasC]

he identified as part of a group that felt he had a right to have sex with women and took his revenge for not getting that on the biggest woman figure in his life, his mother. I don't know how much clearer it could be

That would have been bad enough, but the fact he then went on to murder random people passing in the street is another level. To deliberately murder a 3 year old little girl is just beyond words for me

I don’t actually know how clearer it could be.

From his video, he actually talks about being the terminator so I just don’t think it’s fair to say 100% this was intel related. I’m thinking holistically about this...domestic dispute, mental health.... we don’t know 100%...and in order to class something as terrorism, in the eyes of the law, there has to be grounds and reasonable suspicion....it’s just not 100 clear cut as to the motives and reasoning.

Mental health is a cross roads and we can take one path or the other, many cases, numerous paths.

I think he identified as many things and couldn’t see the wood through the trees.

Again, it could be intel, but then it could be narcissist personality disorder which includes delusions of grandeur... I understand the polices reasoning to not classify this as terrorism at this point

[Babayaro.]

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2021/08/13/21/46654243-0-image-m-9_1628888039637.jpg


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9891695/Girl-3-father-43-shot-Plymouth-incel-murdered-mum-51-hated.html

This really irks me.

‘Dog Walker’ ffs :facepalm: Can’t they have the decency to say their actual names instead of giving them a tag??

[Oliver_W]

Is it known if the other victims were connected to him in any way?

[Vanessa]

This is heartbreaking.
The father trying to save his little girl :bawling:

[arista]

This really irks me.

‘Dog Walker’ ffs :facepalm: Can’t they have the decency to say their actual names instead of giving them a tag??


Fast moving DM images

That image has changed again
with a ITVnews Video in the centre now

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/index.html

[arista]

This is heartbreaking.
The father trying to save his little girl :bawling:


Thats the trouble with pump action shot gun



Real sad
the 3 year old did not stand a chance

[user104658]

He said hi,self he didn’t identify as Intel.

There are a lot of things which could have pushed him to do this and that might not include intel.


You keep saying “intel”

It’s “incel”

You don’t even know the word, you have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about, this problem is massive, you apparently aren’t interested or don’t care (why would you, I suppose, you have the privilege of it not affecting you at all) but by denying this problem or refusing to even believe that there is one, you are part of the problem. So no, I don’t want to debate this topic with you.

You also say he "says he didn't identify as intel" (I assume you meant incel)

From the article;

"posted videos of himself working out and most recently ten-minute rants about life being 'rigged against you', humanity being on the 'brink of extinction' and being repulsive to the opposite sex."

This is 100% incel rhetoric and indoctrination. The article also clearly states that he himself identified as and referred to himself as "blackpill". If you don't know what that is, here you go;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incel#Red_pill

The "black pill" generally refers to a set of commonly-held beliefs in incel communities, which include biological determinism, fatalism, and defeatism for unattractive people.[88] Believers are referred to as being "blackpilled".[89] The black pill has been described by Vox correspondent Zack Beauchamp as "a profoundly sexist ideology that ... amounts to a fundamental rejection of women's sexual emancipation, labeling women shallow, cruel creatures who will choose only the most attractive men if given the choice".[35] The term was first popularized on the blog Omega Virgin Revolt, where it represented a belief that the entire social system was broken and that one's place in the system was not something any individual could change.[65][87] An incel who has "taken the black pill" has adopted the belief that they are hopeless, and that their lack of success romantically and sexually is permanent regardless of any changes they might try to make to their physical appearance, personality, or other characteristics.



When you clearly have so little idea of what the topic is that you can’t even spell the word.

Leading me to believe that you’d never even heard it until yesterday.


You should be a women’s activist seeing as you have such passionate views about mainly women this, mainly women that yet ignoring the bigger picture.

MRA rhetoric. Keep it.

[user104658]

.

You said it’s mostly aimed at women, I gave you examples of it not mainly being women, but that’s fine you dismiss that.
:


Just to clarify this part: I did not say that “terrorism mainly targets women”. I said that incel groups mainly (pretty much exclusively) target women with their hatred and violence. And that when these people take action, it is terrorism. I know that it isn’t “in the eyes of the law” - THAT IS THE PROBLEM. Swept under the carpet. Hopefully not for much longer.

You countered that by pointing out that religious terrorist groups are largely indiscriminate in their attacks, for some reason, which has absolutely no bearing on what I said.

[Denver]

I don’t actually know how clearer it could be.

From his video, he actually talks about being the terminator so I just don’t think it’s fair to say 100% this was intel related. I’m thinking holistically about this...domestic dispute, mental health.... we don’t know 100%...and in order to class something as terrorism, in the eyes of the law, there has to be grounds and reasonable suspicion....it’s just not 100 clear cut as to the motives and reasoning.

Mental health is a cross roads and we can take one path or the other, many cases, numerous paths.

I think he identified as many things and couldn’t see the wood through the trees.

Again, it could be intel, but then it could be narcissist personality disorder which includes delusions of grandeur... I understand the polices reasoning to not classify this as terrorism at this point

Why when White people shoot people its mental health but when a non white person shoots someone they are a terrorist, its clear cut racism.

Anyone who goes out of their way to terrorise people or places are terrorist

[user104658]

Anyone who goes out of their way to terrorise people or places are terrorist

I fully agree with this; any hatred-fuelled attack that has the goal of causing misery and midnless destruction is clearcut terrorism. Whether or not the terrorist has mental health problems is completely besides the point; as I said above, with the perpetrators of Islamic Extremist attacks - if you could take one alive and dig around for a while - you would almost certainly discover that their mental health is in tatters... because that's part of the radicalisation process. It's very difficult to radicalise mentally healthy people whether that's into an Islamic cell or an Incel group. "Are terrorists in general mentally healthy" is a totally separate debate; and the quick answer for me is "well obviously not" however that does not mean they are pathologically mentally ill. "Poor mental health" and "mental illness" aren't the same thing.

[ThomasC]

You keep saying “intel”

It’s “incel”

You don’t even know the word, you have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about, this problem is massive, you apparently aren’t interested or don’t care (why would you, I suppose, you have the privilege of it not affecting you at all) but by denying this problem or refusing to even believe that there is one, you are part of the problem. So no, I don’t want to debate this topic with you.

You also say he "says he didn't identify as intel" (I assume you meant incel)

From the article;



This is 100% incel rhetoric and indoctrination. The article also clearly states that he himself identified as and referred to himself as "blackpill". If you don't know what that is, here you go;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incel#Red_pill





When you clearly have so little idea of what the topic is that you can’t even spell the word.

Leading me to believe that you’d never even heard it until yesterday.




MRA rhetoric. Keep it.

You are free to believe what you want, obviously. I'm sure you have the privilege of it not affecting you either. I didn't say I didn't care, those were your words.

I'm just stating the other side of the argument that it might not be this.

Why when White people shoot people its mental health but when a non white person shoots someone they are a terrorist, its clear cut racism.

Anyone who goes out of their way to terrorise people or places are terrorist

No they're not as I have said many times in this thread.

Here we go, the racist card

Regardless of colour terrorism is political whether you're black, white or pink

I fully agree with this; any hatred-fuelled attack that has the goal of causing misery and midnless destruction is clearcut terrorism. Whether or not the terrorist has mental health problems is completely besides the point; as I said above, with the perpetrators of Islamic Extremist attacks - if you could take one alive and dig around for a while - you would almost certainly discover that their mental health is in tatters... because that's part of the radicalisation process. It's very difficult to radicalise mentally healthy people whether that's into an Islamic cell or an Incel group. "Are terrorists in general mentally healthy" is a totally separate debate; and the quick answer for me is "well obviously not" however that does not mean they are pathologically mentally ill. "Poor mental health" and "mental illness" aren't the same thing.

It's not clear cut at all

You obviously have no idea what you're talking about, to quote you

Go and read PACE.

[ThomasC]

Anyway, I'm bored of this forum generally.

Will follow Ammi.

Ta, ta

[Cherie]

Why when White people shoot people its mental health but when a non white person shoots someone they are a terrorist, its clear cut racism.

Anyone who goes out of their way to terrorise people or places are terrorist

There have been at least 3 random knife attacks in London which have not been deemed terrorist in nature but due to mental health issues so that’s not exactly true

[arista]

Some reports say he was on the Autistic Spectrum.
That would explain alot.

[arista]

Anyway, I'm bored of this forum generally.

Will follow Ammi.

Ta, ta


No Thomas keep posting
all views are valid

[user104658]

You are free to believe what you want, obviously. I'm sure you have the privilege of it not affecting you either. I didn't say I didn't care, those were your words.

I have two daughters and kids who are buying into this world have affected her already. She's 12 years old.




It's not clear cut at all

You obviously have no idea what you're talking about, to quote you

Go and read PACE.

I've already told you that I'm perfectly aware of the PACE definition and that I disagree with it and think it's part of the problem, I don't know how much clearer I could have been, but perhaps you didn't read or bother understanding it, much like you haven't read or understood anything about "intel" before flapping your gums on a topic you have literally zero knowledge of.

here it is again incase you're still here.

when these people take action, it is terrorism. I know that it isn’t “in the eyes of the law” - THAT IS THE PROBLEM. Swept under the carpet. Hopefully not for much longer.

[rusticgal]

This really irks me.

‘Dog Walker’ ffs :facepalm: Can’t they have the decency to say their actual names instead of giving them a tag??


As there is no picture of the 'Dog walker' victim....it could be that not all their relatives have been informed yet.

[rusticgal]

Anyway, I'm bored of this forum generally.

Will follow Ammi.

Ta, ta



Dont leave Thomas....use the ignore button and debate with the people you want to. :hug:

[arista]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E8u95I7WEAIC62K?format=jpg&name=900x900

[Cherie]

It seems he had issues going back for some years so who thought it was an idea to give him use of a gun

[Mystic Mock]

:joker::joker::joker:

In your eyes, not the laws.

Nothing clear cut about it

The definition of terrorism according to the Internet.

"The unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims."

The guy admits that he was an Incel, and then eventually kills 5 people with three of them being women. Plus he did use violence and intimidation against civilians.

Basically whichever way you look at it it's terrorism, and in my unofficial way of classifying terrorism, going around and shooting five people dead at what seemingly appears to be random with four of his victims should count as terrorism imo.

But under the UK law we aren't following the official definition of terrorism if we don't class this guy as a terrorist.

[Mystic Mock]

I have two daughters and kids who are buying into this world have affected her already. She's 12 years old.






I've already told you that I'm perfectly aware of the PACE definition and that I disagree with it and think it's part of the problem, I don't know how much clearer I could have been, but perhaps you didn't read or bother understanding it, much like you haven't read or understood anything about "intel" before flapping your gums on a topic you have literally zero knowledge of.

here it is again incase you're still here.

Your 12 year old Daughter has met Incel's? That's awful.

[GoldHeart]

6 dead including a child

Absolutely disgusting
And the gunman sounds like a lunatic geeez

[arista]

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/511B/production/_119936702_telegraph-nc.png

[arista]

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/10DD1/production/_119937096_express-nc.png

[thesheriff443]

Anyway, I'm bored of this forum generally.

Will follow Ammi.

Ta, ta

You came in like a breath of fresh air and your leaving like a silent fart

[user104658]

Your 12 year old Daughter has met Incel's? That's awful.

Well obviously not actual "incels" (at 12 you would hope that they are ALL celibate) but yes at least two boys with YouTube/TikTok accounts that are, essentially, full of frustration, hatred and ranting directed at women/girls. That's the worrying thing really - I doubt they're on redpill/blackpill forums themselves but the rhetoric is filtering down into "the mainstream". MRA stuff ("It's men who have it worst/women are unsympathetic") is absolutely ALL OVER TikTok for example. Most of them aren't the "hardcore" ones you'd find on 4chan or Reddit but they're picking up these ideas from other Social Media, and the terms/language being used is always the same, so it's coming from the same source (mostly Reddit).

[Niamh.]

Well obviously not actual "incels" (at 12 you would hope that they are ALL celibate) but yes at least two boys with YouTube/TikTok accounts that are, essentially, full of frustration, hatred and ranting directed at women/girls. That's the worrying thing really - I doubt they're on redpill/blackpill forums themselves but the rhetoric is filtering down into "the mainstream". MRA stuff ("It's men who have it worst/women are unsympathetic") is absolutely ALL OVER TikTok for example. Most of them aren't the "hardcore" ones you'd find on 4chan or Reddit but they're picking up these ideas from other Social Media, and the terms/language being used is always the same, so it's coming from the same source (mostly Reddit).That's so scary TS and I agree with your posts in here, this should absolutely be considered a terror attack, I think its important that it's considered that so that awareness of those kind of groups online is raised, they are grooming and radicilising men online and are dangerous

Sent from my SM-G780G using Tapatalk

[Alf]

As usual, you have literally no idea what you’re talking about, but on this occasion I can’t be bothered going too far into it. The PUA/MRA/Incel movements are no different to radical Islam or racial extremism, they do target women, repeatedly, it has been a growing problem for decades and this is 100% terrorism.

Just because it’s not a subsection of radicalised behaviour you were previously aware of doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. You would do well to actually read up on it, instead of dismissing it out of hand, because you aren’t aware of the issues women face.How many times a year do you and Dezzy come out with the line "You have no idea what you're talking about"

It's quite a few.

Why is it that you and Dezzy know everything about everything and you always like to remind us that you know things and nobody else does?

[user104658]

How many times a year do you and Dezzy come out with the line "You have no idea what you're talking about"

It's quite a few.

Why is it that you and Dezzy know everything about everything and you always like to remind us that you know things and nobody else does?

He didn't even know the word "incel", Alf, and repeatedly said "intel". He had no idea what he was talking about.

[Oliver_W]

Well obviously not actual "incels" (at 12 you would hope that they are ALL celibate) but yes at least two boys with YouTube/TikTok accounts that are, essentially, full of frustration, hatred and ranting directed at women/girls. That's the worrying thing really - I doubt they're on redpill/blackpill forums themselves but the rhetoric is filtering down into "the mainstream". MRA stuff ("It's men who have it worst/women are unsympathetic") is absolutely ALL OVER TikTok for example. Most of them aren't the "hardcore" ones you'd find on 4chan or Reddit but they're picking up these ideas from other Social Media, and the terms/language being used is always the same, so it's coming from the same source (mostly Reddit).

Idiot parents leaving their kids to be raised by the internet are responsible for so many damaged people tbh

[Crimson Dynamo]

In the chat rooms and forums dedicated to the extreme incel misogynistic subculture, Jake Davison was praised as a "saint" on Saturday night.

In a series of bizarre and invariably deeply offensive comments, the Plymouth mass shooting was hailed as marking the beginning of a new "season" of attacks by young men filled with hatred towards women.

One incel – an involuntary celibate – expressed disappointment that Davison's "score", or the number of people he had killed, was not higher.

Another warned that he feared Davison's murders could erode the rights of British incels to arm themselves to carry out more attacks. Many blamed women who had spurned Davison's advances as responsible for his actions.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/08/14/bizarre-onlineworld-incelwomen-hatershails-saint/

[Cherie]

In the chat rooms and forums dedicated to the extreme incel misogynistic subculture, Jake Davison was praised as a "saint" on Saturday night.

In a series of bizarre and invariably deeply offensive comments, the Plymouth mass shooting was hailed as marking the beginning of a new "season" of attacks by young men filled with hatred towards women.

One incel – an involuntary celibate – expressed disappointment that Davison's "score", or the number of people he had killed, was not higher.

Another warned that he feared Davison's murders could erode the rights of British incels to arm themselves to carry out more attacks. Many blamed women who had spurned Davison's advances as responsible for his actions.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/08/14/bizarre-onlineworld-incelwomen-hatershails-saint/


Unbelievable really

[Crimson Dynamo]

Unbelievable really

Its like from a novel and not real life

[bots]

they really must re-classify this type of attack as terrorism so that it gets the priority and action it needs

[Cherie]

It’s really sad that a group that was started innocently to find support has morphed into this level of evil

[Mystic Mock]

Well obviously not actual "incels" (at 12 you would hope that they are ALL celibate) but yes at least two boys with YouTube/TikTok accounts that are, essentially, full of frustration, hatred and ranting directed at women/girls. That's the worrying thing really - I doubt they're on redpill/blackpill forums themselves but the rhetoric is filtering down into "the mainstream". MRA stuff ("It's men who have it worst/women are unsympathetic") is absolutely ALL OVER TikTok for example. Most of them aren't the "hardcore" ones you'd find on 4chan or Reddit but they're picking up these ideas from other Social Media, and the terms/language being used is always the same, so it's coming from the same source (mostly Reddit).

Yikes!:worry:

[Mystic Mock]

That's so scary TS and I agree with your posts in here, this should absolutely be considered a terror attack, I think its important that it's considered that so that awareness of those kind of groups online is raised, they are grooming and radicilising men online and are dangerous

Sent from my SM-G780G using Tapatalk

I agree with both of you on this.

And tbh anybody that's grooming kids into the Incel ideology should be arrested imo.

[Livia]

The police must have a good idea who these people are and where they can be found, and of course they could trace them through the Internet. Round them up and make a bloody example of them. They have no right to a place in a decent society.

I've already had the police in touch with me about my shotgun, wanting to come and check it's being kept properly... not the first time they've checked either. I bet everyone with a licence is now going to get a knock on the door and looked at like they're some kind of moron. Let's hope they tighten the rules to get a licence.

[Mystic Mock]

This guy on Youtube covers Incels in this video, I thought that it was an interesting watch.

20ZvGkLL-V0

He isn't talking about this case specifically, but he tries to give an analysis on Incels in general and trying to get more insight into how they think.

[smudgie]

Involuntary celibate.
Does this mean they can’t get a shag, therefore they hate all women?

[GoldHeart]

Involuntary celibate.
Does this mean they can’t get a shag, therefore they hate all women?

Most of them seem to have that toxic mindset,but I think others just feel sorry for themselves.

[bots]

Involuntary celibate.
Does this mean they can’t get a shag, therefore they hate all women?

pretty much. Looking at most of them, their chances would improve markedly if they had a shower and a shave, but that would involve them making an effort

[Cherie]

Involuntary celibate.
Does this mean they can’t get a shag, therefore they hate all women?

Yes in a nutshell, if no one fancies them it’s the woman’s fault

[user104658]

Involuntary celibate.
Does this mean they can’t get a shag, therefore they hate all women?


In short, yes, but it’s more complex than that in that it attracts people who are just feeling a bit lost and sorry for themselves (and who would have perfectly normal love lives if they spent a little time on themselves, even just emotionally) and indoctrinates them into ideas that it’s hopeless, there’s no point trying to improve, women owe them something, that they’re doomed, and at the extreme end that they should be angry at women/the world (it often extends to hating men who do have partners, they are also targets of hatred) and that they should ultimately “do something about it”.

That’s what makes it radicalisation/extremism and the violent action terrorism. Yes it’s individuals with warped views and poor self esteem but that is taken by a group with a very clear ideology, their own terminologies, basically a religion in every sense other than being “mystical” and it’s weaponised.

Like I said I really see it as no different at all to other forms of violent extremism.

[Mystic Mock]

pretty much. Looking at most of them, their chances would improve markedly if they had a shower and a shave, but that would involve them making an effort

I really fit in with the Incels on the shave part.:joker:

I look like a ****ed up looking Country Singer at the moment.:joker:

I really don't get how not having sex with women seems to get them so bent out of shape? I know that it clearly bothers them, but it's not the end of the world if you don't get laid.

[arista]

[Five people shot by a gunman in Plymouth
were unlawfully killed, an inquest jury
has concluded.
Jake Davison killed his mother and four other people,
including a three-year-old girl, with a pump-action shotgun
in Keyham in August 2021.]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-64674901



[Jurors at a five-week inquest held at
Exeter Racecourse gave their conclusions
today]

[arista]

From Ch4HDnews

The Police never checked the Video
Davison Beating a kid up in a park.
Just before they handed his shotgun
back?


The Law on Gun Ownership
needs updating

[Oliver_W]

[Five people shot by a gunman in Plymouth
were unlawfully killed, an inquest jury
has concluded.

Gosh and there was me thinking there was the possibility he'd shot them lawfully...

[Mystic Mock]

Gosh and there was me thinking there was the possibility he'd shot them lawfully...

:joker:

[arista]

https://liveblog.digitalimages.sky/lc-images-sky/lcimg-4e44a407-a502-4092-b5d6-380eaa51c7b5.jpeg