Onlyfans bans explicit adult content ie: pornographic material

[Calderyon]

OnlyFans bans explicit content

Devin Coldewey@techcrunch / 10:09 PM GMT+3•August 19, 2021

OnlyFans has announced that it will ban sexually explicit content starting in October. The platform was not built specifically for porn but that has grown to be its most popular and visible use case, but pressure from “banking partners and payout providers” means the company will have to leave the adult content world behind and focus solely on SFW material going forward.

The news, first reported by Bloomberg, was confirmed by the company in a statement:

Effective 1 October, 2021, OnlyFans will prohibit the posting of any content containing sexually-explicit conduct. In order to ensure the long-term sustainability of the platform, and to continue to host an inclusive community of creators and fans, we must evolve our content guidelines. Creators will continue to be allowed to post content containing nudity as long as it is consistent with our Acceptable Use Policy.

These changes are to comply with the requests of our banking partners and payout providers.

We will be sharing more details in the coming days and we will actively support and guide our creators through this change in content guidelines.

OnlyFans did not respond to TechCrunch’s inquiries as to its definition of sexually explicit content or how it expected this would impact the company’s bottom line.

The OnlyFans platform has become the de facto standard for independent creators doing adult content. Over the pandemic it grew increasingly popular as the adult industry, like others, had its normal operations interrupted. It has proved an invaluable asset for many creators, professional and aspiring, who used the platform to directly monetize fans without interacting with notoriously predatory established adult industry companies.

But sex work has always been risky in online operations. The practical risk of hosting illegal content means platforms must exert constant vigilance for things like child sex abuse material, malicious content like revenge porn and unwanted leaks, and everyday internet threats like piracy.

At the organizational level, however, the companies may find it difficult to scale due to the trepidation of investors and banks, both of which tend to avoid the industry in general as a “vice,” much the way cannabis and sex toy startups have faced challenges. Pushback from financial backers and payment processors can effectively sink an entire business model.

OnlyFans in this case says openly that it is abandoning adult content due to exactly this type of pressure. While the company has recently debuted and promoted its OFTV app, a SFW alternative to the main OnlyFans site, and of course there are many creators on the platform who do not produce sexually explicit content, this will be an enormous blow to both the sex work industry and to the company itself. Affected creators were not notified ahead of time.

“This is going to shatter a lot of people’s main source of income, the foundation of their entire business,” said Tristan West, who as dreamboytristan is a top creator of adult content on OnlyFans. “Me and a lot of people have got to do a lot of work to secure our business, move our assets, move our content to another platform. It’s not the end of the world, but this is a huge setback.”

West noted that other platforms are finding ways to monetize adult content as well, such as Twitter adding its paid follows and sites like PornHub building out direct monetization opportunities as well. But OnlyFans holds all the cards and will need to make that transition possible.

“I’d like to see them do what’s needed — it’s weird that they haven’t come to us and talked to us in any way,” said West. “Offer a quick option to download all your content on OnlyFans — that’s your asset, that’s your business. That’s the bare minimum that they can do for creators.”

It’s a serious question whether OnlyFans will be able to survive this transition in any recognizable form. The choice to abandon their most lucrative and loyal segment of customers and creators may poison the well, with others declining to rely on a platform that failed to support others. Investors, once wary of the risk of putting money into a sex-adjacent product, may now be wary of paying to board a sinking ship. That $1 billion valuation may be farther away than ever.

The obvious and immediate answer from the tech community is to operate OnlyFans or something like it using cryptocurrencies, which are generally speaking not subject to these limitations. This may represent a way forward for the next platform, but for OnlyFans it may be too late to adapt.

“Thankfully, we have a couple months,” West said. “OnlyFans was the top platform in this market but they’re not the only one. It’s an opportunity for someone else to come around and do better for sex workers and online creators.”

This story is developing and may be updated in the near future with more information.

https://techcrunch.com/2021/08/19/onlyfans-bans-explicit-content/?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAAwgExdyXiss1PFN8ZGCxOUpCqGT kWd92lefZlmBmaFORQhSMj5nisdW4fkQMET4jNT3OSXMpS71q-XWNR3Aqal1NGP7S2lmn9gyfsw93d8mIcrlfkjSZ2aYfXO7msKn TF97CSxigY8kg7JVR1SZM9N1obSFYNOoK5LbyTdd0Wn0

Bye, bye OnlyFans.

[Tom4784]

Deleted Post

[user104658]

The entire culture is toxic and the whole concept should be banned. I wonder if in part it's because of all of the 15-year-old TikTok girls gathering huge followings at 15/16/17 and then starting an onlyfans the day they turn 18 (utterly, utterly ****ing gross).

Massive problem, massive threat to vulnerable girls and young women, mental health catastrophe, and simply bolsters (even celebrates?) the idea that women are a commodity for men to consume.

I know they can make a lot of money doing it. That makes it worse. I hope they do put an end to it, and I hope that anything that rises in the ashes of it gets shut down too.

[bots]

the owners are lucky they are not in jail for hosting under age content. There are plenty other sites where they at least have some processes in place to check ages.

[thesheriff443]

It depends how you view the women who do fans only, obviously every one should be at least 18 and checks should be done

There are vulnerable woman in all jobs but women that do fans only I would say are strong independent women that make a lot of money and are far safer than women working on the streets

You could argue it’s wrong but look at love island that is on mainstream television involving people going on a show to win a prize wearing next to nothing and having sex

Just to add I don’t go on fans only sites

[michael21]

All thoses youtubers will be broke now

[Nicky91]

poor Mihai :(

[Smithy]

Everyone will move to just for fans, they’re just shooting themselves in the foot

[Captain.Remy]

Back to retail for a lot of them then.
Also, sex work is work and Only Fans was a great platform for sex workers. They will have to find another place to host their content.
And Only Fans is about to know the same fate as Tumblr: the death of their website :skull:

[Oliver_W]

I've never been on OnlyFans but I assumed it was a platform exclusively for cam*****s :joker:

What will the "sex 'workers' " do now?!

[Niamh.]

The entire culture is toxic and the whole concept should be banned. I wonder if in part it's because of all of the 15-year-old TikTok girls gathering huge followings at 15/16/17 and then starting an onlyfans the day they turn 18 (utterly, utterly ****ing gross).

Massive problem, massive threat to vulnerable girls and young women, mental health catastrophe, and simply bolsters (even celebrates?) the idea that women are a commodity for men to consume.

I know they can make a lot of money doing it. That makes it worse. I hope they do put an end to it, and I hope that anything that rises in the ashes of it gets shut down too.

the owners are lucky they are not in jail for hosting under age content. There are plenty other sites where they at least have some processes in place to check ages.

Yep totally agree with these.

[Oliver_W]

The entire culture is toxic and the whole concept should be banned. I wonder if in part it's because of all of the 15-year-old TikTok girls gathering huge followings at 15/16/17 and then starting an onlyfans the day they turn 18 (utterly, utterly ****ing gross).

Massive problem, massive threat to vulnerable girls and young women, mental health catastrophe, and simply bolsters (even celebrates?) the idea that women are a commodity for men to consume.

I know they can make a lot of money doing it. That makes it worse. I hope they do put an end to it, and I hope that anything that rises in the ashes of it gets shut down too.

100% agreed.

[user104658]

Also, sex work is work and Only Fans was a great platform for sex workers. They will have to find another place to host their content.

The legitimisation of porn/sex work as "normal work" leads countless thousands of teenage girls and young women down a route that many of them end up regretting and with a myriad of mental health implications. They see these messages everywhere that it's a normal and empowering way to make money and at 18 years old they don't have the understanding, introspection or foresight to understand how they're going to feel about it by the time they're 30 (spoiler: for most, the answer is "not very good"). On top of that, legitimizing the culture of men (usually older men) leering at women (usually younger women) in exchange for cash is not empowering in the slightest, it's normalisation of the toxic commoditisation of women's bodies. There is literally nothing good about any of it, other than that some people make a living from it, for a short period of time, and then end up depressed and with few real career prospects other than actual prostitution because by the time they hit 25 their "fans" will have moved onto the latest 18 year old. The whole thing is so gross it actually makes me furious... the TikTok girl -> onlyfans -> next TikTok girl conveyor belt is an absolute disaster.

Absolutely no judgement on the women by the way; I fully understand why they're tempted into it. If you'd told me I could get naked on webcam at 18 and make a 6-figure-plus salary I'd have been right on there. In fact that's part of what concerns me. I didn't give a **** at that age. Eventually, you start to give a ****.

I'm also under no illusions that sex work can be eliminated because the world is what it is (i.e. often grim). But I completely reject the notion that it's in any way "empowering"... a sad illusion that serves no one but the consumer. I believe that makes me a "SWERF"? :shrug: hard to hear I suppose, for those involved in the industry and the slimes who are paying for it. The ones who would actually care if they thought it was exploitative anyway. Which isn't many of them.

100% happy judging the people paying for it. Pondlife.

[Niamh.]

Yeah great post TS, the line that this **** is "empowering" for women really rubs me up the wrong way too

[Niamh.]

Maybe if every little girl had a dad like this guy we'd have much more truly empowered women :love:

https://fb.watch/7vdxLuVA1t/

[thesheriff443]

Maybe if every little girl had a dad like this guy we'd have much more truly empowered women :love:

https://fb.watch/7vdxLuVA1t/

I’ve been saying this for years like kids shoes have to have stripper heals or shorts that show kids bum cheeks

Kids grow into adults but the clothing industry and makeup industry feed off of younger girls

[Niamh.]

I’ve been saying this for years like kids shoes have to have stripper heals or shorts that show kids bum cheeks

Kids grow into adults but the clothing industry and makeup industry feed off of younger girls

It shows you just how early the conditioning of girls starts

[thesheriff443]

It shows you just how soon the conditioning of girls starts

Of course it does

[Glenn.]

Everyone will move to just for fans, they’re just shooting themselves in the foot

This really

[user104658]

Everyone will move to just for fans, they’re just shooting themselves in the foot

This really

Maybe so for now but knocking a big player off the board is usually an indication that a "tide is turning". Pornhub's crackdown on anonymous uploading and "who can post porn" did have a decent knock-on effect on these sites generally (they're still awful, but the "amateur violence" is decreasing).

[Captain.Remy]

The legitimisation of porn/sex work as "normal work" leads countless thousands of teenage girls and young women down a route that many of them end up regretting and with a myriad of mental health implications. They see these messages everywhere that it's a normal and empowering way to make money and at 18 years old they don't have the understanding, introspection or foresight to understand how they're going to feel about it by the time they're 30 (spoiler: for most, the answer is "not very good"). On top of that, legitimizing the culture of men (usually older men) leering at women (usually younger women) in exchange for cash is not empowering in the slightest, it's normalisation of the toxic commoditisation of women's bodies. There is literally nothing good about any of it, other than that some people make a living from it, for a short period of time, and then end up depressed and with few real career prospects other than actual prostitution because by the time they hit 25 their "fans" will have moved onto the latest 18 year old. The whole thing is so gross it actually makes me furious... the TikTok girl -> onlyfans -> next TikTok girl conveyor belt is an absolute disaster.

Absolutely no judgement on the women by the way; I fully understand why they're tempted into it. If you'd told me I could get naked on webcam at 18 and make a 6-figure-plus salary I'd have been right on there. In fact that's part of what concerns me. I didn't give a **** at that age. Eventually, you start to give a ****.

I'm also under no illusions that sex work can be eliminated because the world is what it is (i.e. often grim). But I completely reject the notion that it's in any way "empowering"... a sad illusion that serves no one but the consumer. I believe that makes me a "SWERF"? :shrug: hard to hear I suppose, for those involved in the industry and the slimes who are paying for it. The ones who would actually care if they thought it was exploitative anyway. Which isn't many of them.

100% happy judging the people paying for it. Pondlife.

The background of it all is questionable on every level as you mentionned and I don't recall saying it was empowering or a good thing for everybody.
Some say it's better for these people to be in charge of their content from home rather than signing deals with production companies that don't treat them right. Some want sex work to be completely eradicated but to be honest it's never going to be therefore some want a safer working environment and so on...

Some end up regretting it, some don't. And for those who don't, it's legit work to them. Let's not judge them for their choices (not saying you do, I'm speaking in general terms). And it's not about just young girls also, boys get into this too at a very young age or older (Though the current system is tougher and more oriented towards girls than boys.)

I think a lot of people get into this industry thinking it's innocent or just fun and I would say it's also incumbent on these hosting platforms to really warn these people about what they are going to post.
Surely it doesn't replace family, their environment, their beliefs, the system that got them here but maybe some warnings could help to an extent. :shrug:

[Shaun]

I'm confused as to why this discussion is being centred around barely-legal women when... many other demographics use the platform

[Smithy]

Maybe so for now but knocking a big player off the board is usually an indication that a "tide is turning". Pornhub's crackdown on anonymous uploading and "who can post porn" did have a decent knock-on effect on these sites generally (they're still awful, but the "amateur violence" is decreasing).
Pretty sure JFF was launched after OF purely for porn content
I'm confused as to why this discussion is being centred around barely-legal women when... many other demographics use the platform

Bc this site is full of middle aged heterosexuals :laugh:

[user104658]

I'm confused as to why this discussion is being centred around barely-legal women when... many other demographics use the platform

You're "confused" about why the exploitation and commoditisation of teenage girls on a platform that enables/encourages is a massive part of the discussion, because "other people use it too"?

Are you "confused" about why Pornhub had to make sweeping changes to their posting policy due to a plague of underage porn and rape porn, because "it wasn't ALL kids and rape"?

I don't think it's particularly confusing, but maybe I'm just not seeing the bigger picture. After all, is it REALLY important to focus on the generation of young girls growing up in the belief that selling their body is an empowering career choice, when we should be acknowledging that there are also a couple of blokes selling foot pics to grubby old men?

I also don't think "Hey... it's not just girls, gay teenage boys are also selling sex pics to disgusting old men :) " is much of a selling point.

The whole thing is a load of whataboutery anyway; the vast (VAST) majority of "content creators" on onlyfans are women under the age of 25 and ignoring that by pointing out that there are "other demographics too" isn't going to fly.

[user104658]

Bc this site is full of middle aged heterosexuals :laugh:

Yes look at us fuddy-duddy old middle aged heteros, caring about underage girls being drawn into believing that selling their bodies to blokes is a viable and empowering a career choice. Pff. What a bunch of old stick-in-the-muds am I right? Young, hip, cool lads like yourself couldn't give a stuff about the exploitation of young women. What a massive shock! :idc:

[Smithy]

I think the point Shaun was making is that people of every age demographic and sexuality use only fans but you only seem to be focused on young girls, I have friends who make a fortune off of it and this effects their livelihoods :shrug:

[Swan]

So twitch is trying to be like only fans (without the porn aspect, even though anyone who knows twitch well knows these boundaries are pushed daily) and only fans is trying to be more like twitch. Weird.

[The Slim Reaper]

I think there are a few issues at play here, but first and foremost this genie isn't going back in the bottle, so for me it's about how best to manage it and provide assistance.

Also, I think it's also important to at least acknowledge that sex work is legitimate; not for everyone obviously, but if people of a legal age are choosing to do this, then it's none of my business.

That doesn't mean that they can't put rigorous background checks and support into it, such as forced unionisation based around protection, counselling, and mental health support.

[thesheriff443]

I think the point Shaun was making is that people of every age demographic and sexuality use only fans but you only seem to be focused on young girls, I have friends who make a fortune off of it and this effects their livelihoods :shrug:

As a soon to be 48 year old straight man I’m see as some sort of pervert if I say it’s a persons choice if they want to do this and don’t see those that do it as vulnerable, they are doing what they want to do

It seems woman in general are viewed by some as not being able to make up there own minds

[Glenn.]

Maybe so for now but knocking a big player off the board is usually an indication that a "tide is turning". Pornhub's crackdown on anonymous uploading and "who can post porn" did have a decent knock-on effect on these sites generally (they're still awful, but the "amateur violence" is decreasing).

Pornhub is still thriving though. And as JFF is purely for porn, I’m sure it will do fine.

[user104658]

I think the point Shaun was making is that people of every age demographic and sexuality use only fans but you only seem to be focused on young girls, I have friends who make a fortune off of it and this effects their livelihoods :shrug:

Your friends won't be able to make a fortune if action is taken to help prevent children and young people - mostly teenage girls - from being exploited and commoditised by the sex industry.

"Boo hoo hoo but how will I get to the diamonds if you won't let me send children into the mines any more. Sniffle."

[user104658]

Also, I think it's also important to at least acknowledge that sex work is legitimate; not for everyone obviously, but if people of a legal age are choosing to do this, then it's none of my business.

Nothing quite like a good sprinkling of blinkered liberalism I guess.

Apparent consent does not negate the presence or possibility of exploitation, and condoning the objectification of women (to the point of their bodies being rented out as a consumer product) on the basis that "it's their choice tho" is a massive, massive over-simplification.

But hey the genie's out of the bottle,

it's the oldest profession,

it's not going to change,

etc. etc. so I guess we'll just pretend it's not a problem.

[The Slim Reaper]

Nothing quite like a good sprinkling of blinkered liberalism I guess.

Apparent consent does not negate the presence or possibility of exploitation, and condoning the objectification of women (to the point of their bodies being rented out as a consumer product) on the basis that "it's their choice tho" is a massive, massive over-simplification.

But hey the genie's out of the bottle,

it's the oldest profession,

it's not going to change,

etc. etc. so I guess we'll just pretend it's not a problem.

It's not blinkered (or any other kind of) liberalism, it's pure realism. The main points I made were about the support structures we can put in place to both protect and support anyone doing it.

So what is your solution to prevent anyone doing this kind of work?

[user104658]

It's not blinkered (or any other kind of) liberalism, it's pure realism. The main points I made were about the support structures we can put in place to both protect and support anyone doing it.

So what is your solution to prevent anyone doing this kind of work?

Pointing out that it's obviously not going to be something that's "stopped" is realism yes (see above, re: "the world is grim") but acknowledging that and wanting to seek ways to make sure that anyone who ends up in that world is safe, is completely different to declaring it "none of anyone else's business" / "legitimate so long as people are of legal age" and simply "just not for everyone, but fine otherwise" is not realism, it's liberalism, and legitimization of that form doesn't just protect people who have already taken that path or who would have anyway, it encourages larger numbers of young people to see it as a legitimate career choice when they otherwise would not have, because they are being told from all angles that it's normal or even desireable. It tells increasing generationf of young women that the most valuable legitimate asset they have is their naked body, and that there isn't a problem with the huge numbers of people who are queueing up to buy it.

The numbers who move over into this from things likee TikTok is utterly horrendous - bringing along "customers" who have been following them since they were 15. And they don't see a problem with it when they're 18, or 20, or 25, because there's a lot of money in it and people in general don't do a whole lot of introspection in their late teens and early 20's... but the damage later on is often catastrophic.

[The Slim Reaper]

Pointing out that it's obviously not going to be something that's "stopped" is realism yes (see above, re: "the world is grim") but acknowledging that and wanting to seek ways to make sure that anyone who ends up in that world is safe, is completely different to declaring it "none of anyone else's business" / "legitimate so long as people are of legal age" and simply "just not for everyone, but fine otherwise" is not realism, it's liberalism, and legitimization of that form doesn't just protect people who have already taken that path or who would have anyway, it encourages larger numbers of young people to see it as a legitimate career choice when they otherwise would not have, because they are being told from all angles that it's normal or even desireable. It tells increasing generationf of young women that the most valuable legitimate asset they have is their naked body, and that there isn't a problem with the huge numbers of people who are queueing up to buy it.

The numbers who move over into this from things likee TikTok is utterly horrendous - bringing along "customers" who have been following them since they were 15. And they don't see a problem with it when they're 18, or 20, or 25, because there's a lot of money in it and people in general don't do a whole lot of introspection in their late teens and early 20's... but the damage later on is often catastrophic.

I put forward decent common sense suggestions for ways to address the issues you've raised, such as background checks (to prevent trafficking), and unionisation based around protection, support, and MH.

Which, unless we're going to not only allow, but promote full control over the body autonomy of adults, is the only sensible way to address the issue, and all the pretending you're the only person in this discussion to care, won't change that as a fundamental fact.

[Tom4784]

Deleted Post

[Oliver_W]

I have friends who make a fortune off of it and this effects their livelihoods :shrug:
They might have to start actual work :bawling:

The numbers who move over into this from things likee TikTok is utterly horrendous - bringing along "customers" who have been following them since they were 15. And they don't see a problem with it when they're 18, or 20, or 25, because there's a lot of money in it and people in general don't do a whole lot of introspection in their late teens and early 20's... but the damage later on is often catastrophic.
Parents who let their teenage children become TikTok "stars" with no supervision are up there with those who leave their sons to get radicalised online. Only difference is in the former case, it's "only" the daughter who ultimately suffers.

[Tom4784]

Deleted Post

[Smithy]

They might have to start actual work :bawling:
.

Sex workers aren’t real workers but I bet you watch porn

Hypocrite :shrug:

[Oliver_W]

Sex workers aren’t real workers but I bet you watch porn

Hypocrite :shrug:

I don't think clothing companies should be using what amounts to slave labour, but I still wear clothes.

[user104658]

I put forward decent common sense suggestions for ways to address the issues you've raised, such as background checks (to prevent trafficking), and unionization based around protection, support, and MH.

Which, unless we're going to not only allow, but promote full control over the body autonomy of adults, is the only sensible way to address the issue, and all the pretending you're the only person in this discussion to care, won't change that as a fundamental fact.

Again, you're overlooking a massive gulf between "banning and controlling" and "legitimising as a career choice". It's not just about direct harm to the individuals involved, the very core of the message - that naked bodies (especially young, especially female naked bodies) are a legitimate consumer product is harmful on a much wider level and shouldn't be normalised. Turning it into " a job like any other" - as many would see happen - is absolutely normalisation and that normalisation takes root very quickly in upcoming generations.

At no point have I said it should be made illegal or that body autonomy should be controlled, and pointing out the issues in normalising something and "making it mainstream" is not that.

To give a comparative example; casual low-level alcoholism and binge drinking is heavily normalised in the UK (and elsewhere) to the extent that regularly getting blind drunk is seen not only as "totally normal" but in fact as "a right of passage". That mindset is pretty much set in stone in this country at this point. It causes huge problems. Does that mean I think alcohol should be banned? Or that getting blind drunk should be illegal? No, but I'm also not going to sit here and pretend that drinking daily or throwing back 15 cans every Saturday "normal" or healthy life choice either.

[Tom4784]

Deleted Post

[user104658]

I think common sense is all that's required to make sure underaged people aren't abused or forced into sex work on these sites (if that's even a thing, I don't think I've heard of any cases personally). I don't know how OnlyFans works but obviously I think if anyone is gonna do sex work on there, their age must be checked and verified, but from what I understand, most people who do OnlyFans tend to be influencers and the like, people with some kind of a profile that makes it easy enough to check their ages.

I personally don't agree with judging thousands of adults for their own choices regarding their work, worse still, reducing the very serious issue of child abuse and trafficking to a stick to judge them with.

1) It has nothing to do with force or trafficking and no one has said that it does, so this is either a misunderstanding or a strawman. The discussion has quite clearly and explicitly been about the normalisation of sex work making it an attractive prospect to young people, no 3rd party has been mentioned, at any time.

2) Made clear several times that the biggest issue is teenage girls being followed on other platforms whilst they are underage and then being attracted to OnlyFans as soon as they turn 18.

3) I don't judge the people who are attracted to the profit-making potential of the platform at all and even said that if that sort of money had been a prospect for me at the same age I'd have been all over it. Again though I do absolutely, 100% and without question judge the sad pondlife who are paying the sub fees and facilitating the whole industry.

[The Slim Reaper]

Again, you're overlooking a massive gulf between "banning and controlling" and "legitimising as a career choice". It's not just about direct harm to the individuals involved, the very core of the message - that naked bodies (especially young, especially female naked bodies) are a legitimate consumer product is harmful on a much wider level and shouldn't be normalised. Turning it into " a job like any other" - as many would see happen - is absolutely normalisation and that normalisation takes root very quickly in upcoming generations.

At no point have I said it should be made illegal or that body autonomy should be controlled, and pointing out the issues in normalising something and "making it mainstream" is not that.

To give a comparative example; casual low-level alcoholism and binge drinking is heavily normalised in the UK (and elsewhere) to the extent that regularly getting blind drunk is seen not only as "totally normal" but in fact as "a right of passage". That mindset is pretty much set in stone in this country at this point. It causes huge problems. Does that mean I think alcohol should be banned? Or that getting blind drunk should be illegal? No, but I'm also not going to sit here and pretend that drinking daily or throwing back 15 cans every Saturday "normal" or healthy life choice either.

The entire culture is toxic and the whole concept should be banned.

We have areas of complete agreement, but again, all I would ask is that you try and provide a way that this work/platform/add your own descriptor, that pretty much everyone is aware of, can now be delegitimised to young, impressionable, underage people, planning their legal age career moves?

It can't, so this is where we are. Not hypothetically, or for better or worse, but in absolute reality. The only way I can possibly think of would be some kind of minimum age requirement; but this is actually where my socialism kicks in, with the recognition that there is no way capitalism would allow that.

[Tom4784]

Deleted Post

[Swan]

This gonna be a massive blow to Amouranth's income. She earns a bomb on twitch, licking microphones etc, but i know her only fans was earning her a **** ton also.

[user104658]

Sex work is work no matter how hard you clutch your pearls. It's also a slippery judgy slope. Work is work, and as long as people are doing it of their own accord and no one is getting hurt, then it's no one else's business. Making out that you don't consider work work because you don't like it is just boomer-ish behaviour, what next. You're gonna judge fast food workers next?

Sex work is something that is becoming normalised whether we like it or not. The only thing we can do is safeguard the workers to prevent abuse and the like, and make sure that people are doing it for their own reasons and not at the behest of anyone else.

I think the examples you've brought up are gross of underage people turning to OnlyFans as soon as they are of legal age, but as someone else said, the genie is out of the bottle. At that point, we can only hope that sex work is legitimised further so that workers can be protected and unionised.

Shoving it back into the dark just makes it so the wrong people do what they'll do easier.

The commoditisation of women's bodies is harmful to all women, you not understanding why that is and insisting that "no one else is getting hurt so it's no one else's business" does not mean it isn't happening. I am raising a teenage daughter in a world that's telling her it's "normal" for young girls to get naked for men for money. That the most valuable thing women have to offer the world of work is their body. It's massively harmful.

[Tom4784]

Deleted Post

[Barry.]

For I believe the 4th time - I judge the people spending the money, not those who put themselves on the platform. I have sympathy for the many who end up regretting it.
:

So why am I getting judge my dear?

[user104658]

So why am I getting judge my dear?

I'm assuming you mean for spending money on onlyfans? I don't think I can answer that without getting an infraction.

[user104658]

I'm going to leave this where it is for now, the topic clearly makes me genuinely angry and I will end up saying things that ... haven't been well thought through ... and also I think my feelings on this are pretty clear at this point, and not going to change, so any further response I give will only be repeating what's already been said. If it was ignored and misrepresented on the first round it's not likely to be taken on board on a do-over is it.

[bots]

it is the payment processors that are forcing this change on them, so i don't think other sites will have much success with it either unless they go to crypto currency and that just doesnt have the take up to make it viable

[thesheriff443]

thousands of adult men and women who make a living on OnlyFans to essentially have their income at risk, and it doesn't make it right to judge them for their own choices either.

We rarely agree but we are on the same page with this topic
People may not agree with it but it’s not their choice to make

[user104658]

We rarely agree but we are on the same page with this topic
People may not agree with it but it’s not their choice to make

Hmm but suggesting that criticising something and pointing out the ways in which it is harmful (whether that be to the individual or in a broader sense), or arguing that it's a good thing for it not to be facilitatied, is equivalent to trying to make people's choices for them. It's a non sequitur; I can't decide whether that's down to a misunderstanding of the logic or just deliberate strawmanning.

"If you criticise someone's choices you are trying to control them" is simply a false statement, usually one trotted out by people who don't like being criticised.

Likewise, "It's not their choice to make" does not preclude criticism and there's no reason that it should.

[user104658]

it is the payment processors that are forcing this change on them, so i don't think other sites will have much success with it either unless they go to crypto currency and that just doesnt have the take up to make it viable

Crypto would be a suitably seedy payment method I suppose.

[Oliver_W]

Sex work is work no matter how hard you clutch your pearls.
Nah.

Try telling that to women who're forced into sex work and basically enslaved by their pimps and abused by their Johns. They'll tell you how legitimate and "empowering" it is.

And when it comes to people sitting around taking explicit photos of themselves ... That's pushing the definition of "sex", and absolutely obliterating the definition of "work" :joker:

Sex work is something that is becoming normalised whether we like it or not
It's not something that should be enabled.

I'm sure we can all think of stupid decisions we've regretted from before we were 25ish, and now the door has been opened so that these decisions can easily include "degrading oneself for a money" or "allowing oneself to be treated like a commodity".

[Shaun]

You started off with this broad claim that the entire website is a toxic culture and mental health catastrophe - a predatory scam aimed at underage girls - and then got annoyed when people suggested that other people (adult men, adult women, sex workers, models, minorities who can't get much work in serious modeling fields because of predatory behaviour / attitudes towards trans people in those fields, people who are just... sexually liberal) use the platform, doubled down on the rhetoric that the website is luring in underage girls, and then decided you're annoyed because you're not being listened to?

Like... you just tarred everyone who's made money off of this, or donated to someone who uses it, with "they must have terrible mental health" and are now playing the victim and whining about the topic making you angry? lmao

I'm sure there are many creators on the platform who are in a position of low self-esteem, have intimacy issues, have maybe been abused, etc, but if they're of legal age I don't really understand a frame of mind where we have to completely outlaw them being unable to make money from some videos of themselves. I'm sure there are many users on here who would look down on such people as lazy, or slutty, or cheap, but... I'm sure there's people who look down on you for their own reasons too.

But no... carry on and just let them be prostitutes instead. That's much safer x

[user104658]

You started off with this broad claim that the entire website is a toxic culture and mental health catastrophe

The specific website? No. Young people getting the impression that home made porn/objectification and commidification is a good thing or a viable or healthy career choice no matter what site it's on or how it's sold? Absolutely yes.

a predatory scam aimed at underage girls

Didn't say that. Quote where I said the site actively targets anyone at all, or is a scam?

and then got annoyed when people suggested that other people (adult men, adult women, sex workers, models, minorities who can't get much work in serious modeling fields because of predatory behaviour / attitudes towards trans people in those fields, people who are just... sexually liberal) use the platform

I didn't get annoyed - I got annoyed that people apparently want to use that as justification to disregard the harm that it does to (mostly) young (mostly) women. Ignoring that young women make up the bulk of the platform and it's profitability is a bit annoying yes. Is it a comfortable lie you tell yourself? Or are you, in fact, perfectly aware that young women selling to men makes up 90%+ of the platform. Is that just... acceptable collateral for the groups you've mentioned, perhaps?

doubled down on the rhetoric that the website is luring in underage girls

It is. Though I was clear (multiple times) that they're 18 when they actually start on OnlyFans.

and then decided you're annoyed because you're not being listened to?

No I decided I was annoyed about being ignored and misrepresented, not because I'm "not being listened to" (suggesting I'm annoyed about not being agreed with?). But I'll give the benefit of the doubt; maybe it's a simple failure of comprehension rather than an agenda-driven strawman tactic.

Like... you just tarred everyone who's made money off of this, or donated to someone who uses it, with "they must have terrible mental health"

Tarred them as what? Quotes? Said they must have terrible mental health? Quote? You're making stuff up, again, which is what I found annoying. I said it leads to some pretty poor mental health outcomes, NOT that the people already have mental health problems when they get into it. Again, a misrepresentation OR simply not bothering to actually read and comprehend what was said? I don't know; but it's boring and irritating either way and that's why I'm annoyed.

"Donated to" --- :idc: you mean bought from but it's quite telling that you felt the need to phrase it this way. More palateable.

I'm sure there are many creators on the platform who are in a position of low self-esteem, have intimacy issues, have maybe been abused, etc, but if they're of legal age I don't really understand a frame of mind where we have to completely outlaw them being unable to make money from some videos of themselves. I'm sure there are many users on here who would look down on such people as lazy, or slutty, or cheap, but...

Again, none of this has anything to do with my issue with the platform, an issue that you've aptly demonstrated that you either don't understand or have no interest in understanding.

I'm sure there's people who look down on you for their own reasons too.

:worry: sh-sh-shurely not Shaun? ffs :hehe:

But no... carry on and just let them be prostitutes instead. That's much safer x

The girls who get into it as easy, quick money in their late teens are at little to zero risk of turning to other forms of prostitution. Because other forms of prostitution are not normalised as legitimate career choices for people in normal circumstances which is literally what my entire argument has been about.

[Nicky91]

crisp eating trailer trash are the only ones who use OnlyFans, so get rid

[user104658]

crisp eating trailer trash

:joker:

[thesheriff443]

Hmm but suggesting that criticising something and pointing out the ways in which it is harmful (whether that be to the individual or in a broader sense), or arguing that it's a good thing for it not to be facilitatied, is equivalent to trying to make people's choices for them. It's a non sequitur; I can't decide whether that's down to a misunderstanding of the logic or just deliberate strawmanning.

"If you criticise someone's choices you are trying to control them" is simply a false statement, usually one trotted out by people who don't like being criticised.

Likewise, "It's not their choice to make" does not preclude criticism and there's no reason that it should.

You are getting wound up over something that is not within your control
Someone can send a pick for free or charge what someone is willing to pay

If someone is will to spend their money on seeing someone naked that’s their choice and it doesn’t make them the devil.

[Calderyon]

crisp eating trailer trash are the only ones who use OnlyFans, so get rid

What does crisp eating have to do with anything?

[bots]

What does crisp eating have to do with anything?

crisp eating is the ideal accompaniment to having a fiddle

[user104658]

You are getting wound up over something that is not within your control

I won't disagree that it's a waste of time but I'm sure we've had this discussion before (although this thread isn't actually in debates); having a strong opinion on something and sharing it doesn't always have to be about thinking you can actually change it.

If someone is will to spend their money on seeing someone naked that’s their choice and it doesn’t make them the devil.

It makes them 1) comfortable in treating a woman's body as an object they can pay for and 2) pathetic... so I'm quite comfortable in making that "judgment" I'm afraid. I don't think any are "the devil" I think many of them are probably just a bit lonely and sad. And others just want to leer at young women like pieces of meat. I have much more judgement for the latter than the former, to be fair.

[thesheriff443]

I won't disagree that it's a waste of time but I'm sure we've had this discussion before (although this thread isn't actually in debates); having a strong opinion on something and sharing it doesn't always have to be about thinking you can actually change it.



It makes them 1) comfortable in treating a woman's body as an object they can pay for and 2) pathetic... so I'm quite comfortable in making that "judgment" I'm afraid. I don't think any are "the devil" I think many of them are probably just a bit lonely and sad. And others just want to leer at young women like pieces of meat. I have much more judgement for the latter than the former, to be fair.
You have a very simplistic view of what you consider to be right or wrong.

[user104658]

You have a very simplistic view of what you consider to be right or wrong.


In general, no, far from it. On this subject yes I am very clear on my stance.

[thesheriff443]

In general, no, far from it. On this subject yes I am very clear on my stance.

Have you ever had a lap dance paid or unpaid?

[user104658]

Have you ever had a lap dance paid or unpaid?


Unpaid yes, paid no. Believe it or not I’ve never paid a woman for any form of attention, sexual or otherwise. Shocking eh? Almost as though… they are people… and not a tin of beans :omgno:

[user104658]

Wait, that makes it sound like I do sex stuff with beans doesn’t it. :umm2:

[Beso]

crisp eating is the ideal accompaniment to having a fiddle

I once went to the doctors with an orange cock.

He said, what's your hobbies.

I said, watching porn and eating wotzits.


:joker:

[thesheriff443]

Unpaid yes, paid no. Believe it or not I’ve never paid a woman for any form of attention, sexual or otherwise. Shocking eh? Almost as though… they are people… and not a tin of beans :omgno:

Have you ever bought a top shelf magazine or looked at a free one?

[thesheriff443]

And what was you doing while having a lapdance was you looking up at the ceiling:laugh:

[user104658]

Have you ever bought a top shelf magazine or looked at a free one?

I watched free orb until about 5 years ago and thought nothing of it, because I wasn’t aware of the issues and hadn’t given it much thought. I don’t buy or watch porn of any kind now.

And what was you doing while having a lapdance was you looking up at the ceiling:laugh:


?

The issue is BUYING sex Sheriff, not engaging in sexual activity! Getting a free lapdance from a girlfriend isn’t visiting a stripper :think:.

If you had asked, “Have I ever gotten a lapdance from a stripper or visited a strip club” - the answer is no.

[thesheriff443]

I watched free orb until about 5 years ago and thought nothing of it, because I wasn’t aware of the issues and hadn’t given it much thought. I don’t buy or watch porn of any kind now.




?

The issue is BUYING sex Sheriff, not engaging in sexual activity! Getting a free lapdance from a girlfriend isn’t visiting a stripper :think:.

If you had asked, “Have I ever gotten a lapdance from a stripper or visited a strip club” - the answer is no.

A woman can send a pic for free and that’s ok but if a guy buys a pic it’s not

Something for you to consider women of all ages want and enjoy sex and enjoy a bit of diy.

If it’s between consenting adult regardless weather its for free or being paid for I don’t see an issue

[Ashley.]

Sites like OnlyFans can be empowering in the sense that it gives women control over how they are being perceived rather than otherwise being subjected to abuse that they did not consent to. And to be honest, I see what some people are saying - if sites like these can help to keep sex workers off the streets, in extremely unsafe conditions - then there's no doubt that transitioning to online work is a step up. But yes, these sites can conversely be damaging for younger women specifically and worrying hosts of illegal, predatory behaviour. That goes without saying.

[user104658]

A woman can send a pic for free and that’s ok but if a guy buys a pic it’s not



Yes. I honestly don’t understand why this would be a difficult concept to grasp… you understand that having sex with your wife or girlfriend (or heck, a total stranger if you’re both just in it for a good time) is completely different to paying someone for sex … right?

[thesheriff443]

Yes. I honestly don’t understand why this would be a difficult concept to grasp… you understand that having sex with your wife or girlfriend (or heck, a total stranger if you’re both just in it for a good time) is completely different to paying someone for sex … right?

Paying for it does make it wrong
Because in that case a woman can meet a total scumbag in a pub/ club and have sex with him but because he didn’t pay for it that makes it acceptable to you.

Sex between strangers is just that it’s a mutual agreement to have sex having money involved makes no difference in my mind.

[user104658]

Sites like OnlyFans can be empowering in the sense that it gives women control over how they are being perceived rather than otherwise being subjected to abuse that they did not consent to. And to be honest, I see what some people are saying - if sites like these can help to keep sex workers off the streets, in extremely unsafe conditions - then there's no doubt that transitioning to online work is a step up. But yes, these sites can conversely be damaging for younger women specifically and worrying hosts of illegal, predatory behaviour. That goes without saying.


I’m not going to argue that it’s safer for women than “traditional” sex work, including the porn industry, and thus preferable in that sense but I do think it’s being consistently ignored (perhaps wilfully) that at this point, the percentage of active only fans accounts that are made up of young women coming from TikTok, Instagram, twitch streaming, etc. far outweighs those coming from a background in other sex work or traditional porn… and that proportion is only going to continue to grow exponentially. 18 year old girls chewed up and spat back out in their early 20’s, because there’s a new 18 year old to subscribe to instead.

It’s just so grim I really do struggle to take on bird the arguments that brand it empowering. “Empowering” to be able to sell yourself for 3 or 4 years until there’s someone newer and younger? Just an utter mess. Like actual existential horror.

[Oliver_W]

You have a very simplistic view of what you consider to be right or wrong.

Some things simply are right or wrong. People -especially young women- being led to believe that it's a good thing to degrade themselves for money will never be a good thing.

[Oliver_W]

if sites like these can help to keep sex workers off the streets, in extremely unsafe conditions
How did we get to the point where the only possible career choices are stripping for a webcam or prostituting oneself?

[user104658]

Paying for it does make it wrong
Because in that case a woman can meet a total scumbag in a pub/ club and have sex with him but because he didn’t pay for it that makes it acceptable to you.

Sex between strangers is just that it’s a mutual agreement to have sex having money involved makes no difference in my mind.


It is specifically the fact that it’s paid for that makes it commodified though? People having sex for fun is not the same as having sex for money. I really don’t understand your argument here at all.

If a woman wants to set up a site to send pictures of herself naked to men for free, then yes that’s entirely up to her. It’s not the same, at all, as selling a subscription service. I don’t think it’s very realistic that thousands of 18 year olds are going to be swarming to do it though? The money (often large amounts of it) is the incentive.

[user104658]

Some things simply are right or wrong. People -especially young women- being led to believe that it's a good thing to degrade themselves for money will never be a good thing.


Well exactly.

“It’s better to sell yourself online than to take actual physical risks in person” - yes absolutely, no problem at all with that statement, of course it is

“it’s fine to sell yourself online, in fact it’s even empowering!” - not the same thing as the above is it. It moves beyond non-judgement and acceptance and into encouragement.

It’s like the age old debate over whether or not brothels should be legal. Prostitution is unfortunately always going to happen, so yes, decriminalising brothels is probably a good idea in terms of keeping women safer from violence and (some) exploitation.

Does that mean that you would encourage young women to work in a brothel it call it empowering? That you’d look at an 18 year old girl and say “Hmm let’s think about your strengths and prospects. Have you considered having men pay to **** you? Good money in that.”

Just… really.

[Marsh.]

Sex between strangers is just that it’s a mutual agreement to have sex having money involved makes no difference in my mind.

There obviously is a difference though.

Two strangers getting together because they want to have sex is different to two strangers getting together because only one wants sex and the other is desperate for some cash?

[Ashley.]

How did we get to the point where the only possible career choices are stripping for a webcam or prostituting oneself?

Original "brothels" date back multiple centuries and were built specifically for the enjoyment of powerful men. I don't understand why everybody is focusing so much on how oh so terrible it is for women to act that way as though prostitution has ever been any woman's first bloody choice.

[Elliot]

Such a stupid idea they’re literally killing their platform and ****ing over loads of people and for what? It’s not the celebrities making millions that are gonna suffer from this

[user104658]

Such a stupid idea they’re literally killing their platform and ****ing over loads of people and for what? It’s not the celebrities making millions that are gonna suffer from this


“For what??” = getting nervous about being charged with facilitating access to underage pornography. But hey who cares about a li’l child porn? It’s important that people without jobs can sell nudes for cash, child safety shmild safety.


The site, founded in 2016 by Essex businessman Tim Stokely, has come under fire in the past after a BBC News investigation found under-18s had used fake identification to set up accounts on the site. In June, BBC News found that under-18s sold explicit videos on the site, despite it being illegal for people to share indecent images of children.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-58273914

Grim.

But keep on defending it chaps I’m all ears.

[Niamh.]

Lots of men arguing why its great and empowering for women to sell their bodies mmhhmm

Sent from my SM-G780G using Tapatalk

[Niamh.]

College/University is also a good option

Sent from my SM-G780G using Tapatalk

[thesheriff443]

Lots of men arguing why its great and empowering for women to sell their bodies mmhhmm

Sent from my SM-G780G using Tapatalk

I’m not arguing I’m giving an opinion it’s a pitty we haven’t got any women on here that do it because they would say they actually enjoy it.

Some women do it to pay for their masters degrees

[user104658]

I’m not arguing I’m giving an opinion it’s a pitty we haven’t got any women on here that do it because they would say they actually enjoy it.

Some women do it to pay for their masters degrees


Well I’m convinced now, this is the argument that did it, I can really see it now and why it’s actually all a good thing.

[Mystic Mock]

the owners are lucky they are not in jail for hosting under age content. There are plenty other sites where they at least have some processes in place to check ages.

They host underage content?

Nobody tell Adam Johnson about this.:joker:

[Beso]

Lots of men arguing why its great and empowering for women to sell their bodies mmhhmm

Sent from my SM-G780G using Tapatalk

Perhaps you can access young men and teenage boys as well?

[Mystic Mock]

Maybe so for now but knocking a big player off the board is usually an indication that a "tide is turning". Pornhub's crackdown on anonymous uploading and "who can post porn" did have a decent knock-on effect on these sites generally (they're still awful, but the "amateur violence" is decreasing).

I still find the incest Porn the most shocking content of them all.D:

I remember sadly catching one where this family had this girl staying over for the night, and the older woman says to her "give Mother a kiss.":yuk:

The stuff of nightmares, I prefer my Vanilla Porn.

[Calderyon]

^ Seems to be more of a German thing.

[Mystic Mock]

We rarely agree but we are on the same page with this topic
People may not agree with it but it’s not their choice to make

I agree with this.

As long as it's not Child Porn obviously, I'll normally just leave people to their fetishes, if people want to pay for two consenting adults having sex with each other then go for it.

Even the horrible Incest video I was talking about earlier, as they're not really related I wouldn't complain to see it banned, I just personally find the video disgusting.

[Mystic Mock]

crisp eating trailer trash are the only ones who use OnlyFans, so get rid

What's wrong with Crisps?:nono:

[Niamh.]

Perhaps you can access young men and teenage boys as well?Hopefully not [emoji106]

Sent from my SM-G780G using Tapatalk

[Mystic Mock]

^ Seems to be more of a German thing.

I think they were either American or Canadian.

[Barry.]

So are we saying that porn sites are the devils too, where the performer is of age and willing to do the sex bad as well?

I’m still pretty young so I can help out a guy on onlyfans (the money is helping them live btw) so I don’t mind being label a “lonely and sad” by watching porn.

[Calderyon]

I think they were either American or Canadian.

Stepmom/MILF G&G fantasy. Probably Brazzers or RealityKings.

Spoiler only contains names of websites.

[Tom4784]

Deleted Post

[jet]

Bc this site is full of middle aged heterosexuals :laugh:

….some of us middle aged heterosexuals will have raised daughters, by the sound of it most of these girls are very young and ripe for exploitation; their ‘choices’ may not be the same considered choices they would have made if they were 25+ say….and if you ever had a teenage daughter would you be fine if she was objectified and oogled by some randy Joe needing a wank? If you did, I hope you’d feel very differently….

[Marsh.]

I think they were either American or Canadian.

Stepmom/MILF G&G fantasy. Probably Brazzers or RealityKings.

Spoiler only contains names of websites.

:joker:

[Marsh.]

….some of us middle aged heterosexuals will have raised daughters, by the sound of it most of these girls are very young and ripe for exploitation; their ‘choices’ may not be the same considered choices they would have made if they were 25+ say….and if you ever had a teenage daughter would you be fine if she was objectified and oogled by some randy Joe needing a wank? If you did, I hope you’d feel very differently….

Or they could have middle aged blokes like yourself telling them how slutty they look by showing some leg in a dress, like you do with other people's daughters. It seems women don't need to be doing porn or prostitution to be objectified.

[Oliver_W]

I'd much rather people go into OnlyFans and work for themselves than to put themselves at risk out on the streets.

There's no need for them to do either.

[user104658]

I'd much rather people go into OnlyFans and work for themselves than to put themselves at risk out on the streets. There's a reason why Onlyfans took off as it did, and that's likely because it puts a lot more control into the sex worker's hands than other sex industries might.

I’d agree if it was that simple but it’s not, it’s a false sentiment, because the simple fact that no matter how it STARTED we’re at the point where the vast majority of young girls on OnlyFans would NOT have gone into any other type of sex work or even have considered it for a second, those girls already the vast majority of the platform and it’s traffic, and the proportion is growing constantly.

They would be shocked at the idea of being “actual” sexworkers but will be active on OnlyFans “because everyone’s doing it” so they think nothing of it, it’s normalised as “legitimate work” making far more money than they could pursuing another career. Then they get spat back out with damaged career prospects and severely impacted self esteem in their early to mid 20’s because the “customers” (see above, re: pondlife) who were their “fans” when they were teens have shifted their sub fees to the newest, freshest 18 year old who has just graduated from SFW SoMed. The lucky ones will get some therapy and pull themselves together without being crippled too badly by regret and horrendous self-image of being past their prime before they even hit 30. And this is something that WOMEN FACE ALREADY just with the general background messages from society and the mainstream media.

Plenty will end up transitioning to the porn industry to keep the income stream going, or start offering “sessions with their biggest fans” (physical prostitution) to hold interest. So actually far from “keeping sex workers safe”, it’s sending young women who would never have gone down that route at all into a situation that frequently ends very badly.

If this was a few people on a platform that was a “legitimate safe alternative to street prostitution for sex workers” then you could put it down to them being unfortunate casualties of poor decisions, MAYBE, but when we’re at the point we’re at now - with the conveyor belt of teenage girls propping up the entire platform - justifying that because “a small proportion actually are better off having it” is really just making excuses to use those girls as cannon fodder. It’s not really justifiable. And that’s without reiterating that investigations have shown that teenage girls under 18 have managed to evade the checks and post sexually explicit content on the platform.

I’m not sure if people don’t believe this is happening or simply don’t care. Given how quickly and often issues that affect women are brushed aside in the pursuit of hyper-individualism, I often have to assume it’s sadly the latter.

[jet]

Or they could have middle aged blokes like yourself telling them how slutty they look by showing some leg in a dress, like you do with other people's daughters. It seems women don't need to be doing porn or prostitution to be objectified.

How you twist things. I once repeated light - heartedly something that the fashion advisors Trinny and Susannah had said….my understanding was that it was a ladies fashion ‘no - no’, yours is that it was ‘slutty’. Hmmm, very telling….

[bots]

the site isn't forcing people to put their stuff on there. It's an individual persons decision. If the person is over 18 then they are an adult and responsible for their own life choices, the same as they are in every other walk of life

[thesheriff443]

the site isn't forcing people to put their stuff on there. It's an individual persons decision. If the person is over 18 then they are an adult and responsible for their own life choices, the same as they are in every other walk of life

And here is the voice of reason!

[Oliver_W]

the site isn't forcing people to put their stuff on there. It's an individual persons decision. If the person is over 18 then they are an adult and responsible for their own life choices, the same as they are in every other walk of life

In things like this it's not just about the individual. Everyone who takes part of it is perpetuating something which shouldn't continue to exist.

[Oliver_W]

So are we saying that porn sites are the devils too, where the performer is of age and willing to do the sex bad as well?

I’m still pretty young so I can help out a guy on onlyfans (the money is helping them live btw) so I don’t mind being label a “lonely and sad” by watching porn.

Why not hire him to do your accounts, or pay him to do your online shopping? Find
something minor you can pay him to do, so instead of degrading himself he might gain some life skills and self worth.

[Liam-]

Why do people keep insisting that somebody who decides to do work on a site like OF can’t have any self worth and that they’re degrading themselves? The only people who are degrading them are the ones looking down on them for a career they’re choosing to partake in, I’d imagine it must take an awful lot of confident and self worth to be able to show yourself off the way they do, it’s about time people stopped feeling so high and mighty about themselves because they choose to live a different way to other people

[Beso]

the site isn't forcing people to put their stuff on there. It's an individual persons decision. If the person is over 18 then they are an adult and responsible for their own life choices, the same as they are in every other walk of life

An abusive boyfriend could be forcing some.

[Oliver_W]

An abusive boyfriend could be forcing some.

No need for such conjecture. Technically someone doesn't need to be forced, but a toxic culture can make it seem like a good idea.

[user104658]

the site isn't forcing people to put their stuff on there. It's an individual persons decision. If the person is over 18 then they are an adult and responsible for their own life choices, the same as they are in every other walk of life

Sociologically this is just a massive cop-out though isn't it. Who cares if young people are drinking themselves to death? Who cares if there's an ever-increasing problem with late teenagers/early-20's doing coke and MDMA (there is, by the way)? Who cares if all of the messaging around them is legitimising and encouraging these choices? They're 18, have at it, their decision.

This is why I mentioned hyper-individualism before. "It's wrong to ever even suggest that people are making poor decisions". That saying "This is a BAD IDEA, which has been well observed to often have VERY POOR OUTCOMES" is akin to "wanting it banned" or "judging the folks who do it already".

[user104658]

Why do people keep insisting that somebody who decides to do work on a site like OF can’t have any self worth and that they’re degrading themselves?

For the now 5th time, I haven't once said that the girls have poor self worth when they get into it or while doing it - in fact it often comes along with a massive self-esteem bost and is part of the draw for many of them - I said they are left with their self-esteem in tatters when the blokes who were telling them they were amazing yesterday think they're "past it" by their late 20's and move on to the next 18 year old.

Or maybe you'd like to argue that this isn't happening? :idc:

[Beso]

No need for such conjecture. Technically someone doesn't need to be forced, but a toxic culture can make it seem like a good idea.

Unless you, and everyone else who has posted in here works in the sex industry, we are all not needing such conjecture, thank you very much.:smug:

[Tom4784]

Deleted Post

[Tom4784]

Deleted Post

[Beso]

I agree with everything TS has said, apart from the suggestion that society makes women feel past it by the age of 30, I would 100 percent say that is 100 percent wrong.

[user104658]

Sex work will always exist, but the only way to protect sex workers is to bring it into the light and legitimise it, Onlyfans placed all the control in the hands of the workers. I'd much rather people sell nudes for cash rather than take the risks of less legitimate sex work.

You're repeatedly ignoring and refusing to even address or acknowledge the following even to try to dispute it;

- that there are countless thousands of girls coming up through things like TikTok and into OF because it's seen as "the totally normal next step"

- that the majority of those girls would not for one second have ever entered into any other form of sex work or pornography

- that these 18 year old girls have over the last 18 months to two years become the vast majority of what generates traffic for OF, not people using it as an alternative revenue stream over traditional sex work or transitioning from in-person prostitution

- that those girls (who would NOT have chosen sex work) often end up led into in-person prostitution with "high paying fans", or making more traditional pornography, to keep their subscribers interested and paying, as they need to make it more interesting to stop them unsubbing in favour of "newer girls".

- that it has been proven that not all of these girls are even 18, which is why it's being cracked down on.


So I can ONLY assume that these things are either too uncomfortable for you to try to defend (because they are gross), or that you think these girls are acceptable collateral damage in order for these platforms to still exist for the benefit and safety of the comparatively small number of people who were already in sex work before OF or would have gone into other sex work without it.

Which would be unsursprising quite frankly because women and girls are pretty much always the acceptable casualties of hyperindividualism. Sorry, "people who choose to live a different waaay".

[user104658]

What do drugs and alcoholism have to do with anything? It's a very Fox News way of trying to make a point. 'I dislike the concept of Onlyfans so I'm randomly going to link it to substance abuse to falsely bolster a point that is making less sense by the minute.'

"They're adults and it's their decision so don't criticise it".

It's exactly the same.

[Liam-]

For the now 5th time, I haven't once said that the girls have poor self worth when they get into it or while doing it - in fact it often comes along with a massive self-esteem bost and is part of the draw for many of them - I said they are left with their self-esteem in tatters when the blokes who were telling them they were amazing yesterday think they're "past it" by their late 20's and move on to the next 18 year old.

Or maybe you'd like to argue that this isn't happening? :idc:

And people lose confidence in themselves when their spouses run off with younger models, shall we crack down on marriages too?

[thesheriff443]

The very idea that young women can’t control themselves and are throwing themselves at the internet naked
Why don’t you ts, give women more credit

[Oliver_W]

but what alternative do you propose?

I hear McDonald's is hiring.

[user104658]

Hyperindividualism = "my individual happiness and the way I want to live my life is more important than any negative societal consequences of the things I want to do".

The insane irony of this is that supporters of the ideology often also declare themselves socialists, when it's just extreme libertarianism wearing a new hat.

And people lose confidence in themselves when their spouses run off with younger models, shall we crack down on marriages too?

No... but will we throw a party for the cheating spouse and congratulate him for "following his heart"?

[user104658]

The very idea that young women can’t control themselves and are throwing themselves at the internet naked
Why don’t you ts, give women more credit

It's not that they can't control themselves, it's that it's becoming "normal" ... because people are insisting on telling them that it's "normal". Or not even just normal ... "positive", "empowering". This is very, very basic social psychology (ans also, although Dezzy would like to insist otherwise, EXACTLY the same reason that Britain has a binge drinking problem).

[user104658]

I hear McDonald's is hiring.

I think this is a bit flippant, I fully accept that sex workers (actual sex workers, not 18 year old kids who still live at home and have been indoctrinated into getting naked for their Social Media fans) often find themselves with few alternatives to sex work.

But jesus ****ing christ if we're at the point of arguing that this fact isn't absolutely bleak, and a damning indication that we are failing young women to a shocking degree. "Oh well they have no alternative but to sell themselves to men, so good on them for doing that on their own steam! Empowering! Das feminism!". Just what? Are people actually listening to themselves when they say this? Are people actually at the point of being THIS deluded about the reality of these industries, and the implications of young women (and in fact young gay men) almost always being the "sellers", and men over 30 making up the vast majority of the "buyers".

Meh. I just don't believe that people don't, on some level, recognise this is HUGELY problematic.

[Barry.]

Why not hire him to do your accounts, or pay him to do your online shopping? Find
something minor you can pay him to do, so instead of degrading himself he might gain some life skills and self worth.

Babe you watch porn it’s the same thing. Pay them for their job!
Also we aren’t telling them what to do, they post the pictures, videos before you actually pay on onlyfans. They do what they want to do not what the people are asking them to

[The Slim Reaper]

Hyperindividualism = "my individual happiness and the way I want to live my life is more important than any negative societal consequences of the things I want to do".

The insane irony of this is that supporters of the ideology often also declare themselves socialists, when it's just extreme libertarianism wearing a new hat.



No... but will we throw a party for the cheating spouse and congratulate him for "following his heart"?

Socialism is actually pretty divided on the issue of sex work, but more importantly, it's actually divided within females themselves, so unless you are now inferring that women have zero interest in caring about themselves, then you're making points that don't tally up to reality

Extreme libertarianism is slavery and this ain't it. A modern socialist approach would be around unionisation (now I'm sure someone mentioned that earlier in the thread), and it's purely typical liberal centrist bull**** that has not a whiff of a solution to a problem. Put your cards on the table and tell us how you would address it, because I've seen you say it should be banned, then say you've never said it should be illegal, so provide a solution. Tell us that you want the state to dictate exactly what people can do with their bodies.

[Oliver_W]

Extreme libertarianism is slavery

:joker:

How'd you work that one out?

[The Slim Reaper]

:joker:

How'd you work that one out?

Because it's true. Libertarianism believes that you should be able to employ people on bed and board, zero wage contracts.

[user104658]

Socialism is actually pretty divided on the issue of sex work, but more importantly, it's actually divided within females themselves, so unless you are now inferring that women have zero interest in caring about themselves, then you're making points that don't tally up to reality

Extreme libertarianism is slavery and this ain't it. A modern socialist approach would be around unionisation (now I'm sure someone mentioned that earlier in the thread), and it's purely typical liberal centrist bull**** that has not a whiff of a solution to a problem. Put your cards on the table and tell us how you would address it, because I've seen you say it should be banned, then say you've never said it should be illegal, so provide a solution. Tell us that you want the state to dictate exactly what people can do with their bodies.

I'll concede that I made a flippant "ban this filth" comment early on driven largely by the fact that I find the whole thing repulsive (adult men paying girls fresh out of high school for porn... fight me on it being repulsive, I guess?) but I don't actually want the state to do anything.

I want people to stop sending the message that it's positive, empowering, or normal to sell porn subs as a choice that's "just the same as any other work", because it clearly is not, unless that other work also celebrates the objectification and commoditisation of women's bodies, results in some seriously grim outcomes for the young people who are drawn into it believing it to be positive, and (just a minor one) demonstrably facilitates and encourages the platforming of pornographic content featuring actual minors.

I can accept that it's a safer form of sex work for sex workers. I will completely conceed that that is true. What I'm being asked to do is ignore the fact that it is an absolute disaster for young girls who now think this is a normal income stream, have countless people (clearly) insisting that it is indeed a normal income stream, and that these girls now make up 90+% of the channel.

Do I now have to want something legislated against or banned to ask people to stop ****ing celebrating it?

[user104658]

Because it's true. Libertarianism believes that you should be able to employ people on bed and board, zero wage contracts.

Libertarianism as a basic political philosophy definition "believes" only in liberty as the core principle; autonomy, freedom of choice, individualism.

Interpertations of market libertarianism may have been used in certain real-world political examples to justify slavery (with a lot of word play and creative interpretation) but that's a totally separate thing. It's like pointing to the Soviet Union and saying "Look, that's socialism". Libertarianism espouses hyperindividualism by basic definition and that is exactly what a lot of modern supposedly "lefty" social thinking emphasises too.

I can't imagine anything much further from a caring or socialist concept than OnlyFans? It's a toxic stew of libertarian individualism and neoliberal freemarket capitalism. It's a right-wing (economically, that is, I'm not Godwining) wet dream. In what sense is it not that?


[edit to add] Yes a libertarian concept would be the ability to employ on zero wage contracts with the market itself naturally dictating what's required as compensation. That inevitably ends up being "very little" because the concept of trickle-down economics is inherently flawed. But the dream of someone who advocates libertarian economic values is NOT working on those contracts. What is it again ... ? What is the Libertarian economic ideal? :think:

Self-employment.

[The Slim Reaper]

I'll concede that I made a flippant "ban this filth" comment early on driven largely by the fact that I find the whole thing repulsive (adult men paying girls fresh out of high school for porn... fight me on it being repulsive, I guess?) but I don't actually want the state to do anything.

I want people to stop sending the message that it's positive, empowering, or normal to sell porn subs as a choice that's "just the same as any other work", because it clearly is not, unless that other work also celebrates the objectification and commoditisation of women's bodies, results in some seriously grim outcomes for the young people who are drawn into it believing it to be positive, and (just a minor one) demonstrably facilitates and encourages the platforming of pornographic content featuring actual minors.

I can accept that it's a safer form of sex work for sex workers. I will completely conceed that that is true. What I'm being asked to do is ignore the fact that it is an absolute disaster for young girls who now think this is a normal income stream, have contless people (clearly) insisting that it is indeed a normal income stream, and that these girls now make up 90+% of the channel.

Do I now have to want something legislated against or banned to ask people to stop ****ing celebrating it?

I mostly agree with your sentiments, but reality is one thing and wish fulfillment is another thing altogether (I'm talking about both of us here). I'd rather it wasn't a thing either, but it is, so for me, recognising the rights and deserved protection for all of the creators is a far more meaningful way to discuss it.

I completely understand as a father of a young woman, it is understandably a far more emotive debate for you than for me, so I can talk about all the rights and protections in the world, but if I have a daughter someday, then I have to be honest and recognise in myself, that I may have a far more aggressive stance.

That doesn't invalidate the opinions non parents, either. I don't think there is a right or wrong way to think about it - other than the lap dance sheriff weirdness from a couple of pages back.

I don't think there is a right or wrong way to think or feel about the subject, but I'm not sure that belittling everyone who sees it differently is the way forward either. It's a completely new thing for this and future generations so it's completely natural we haven't really got to grips with it.

[user104658]

Maybe it's a moot point anyway; what started with Pornhub now seems to be what's happening over at OF and as BOTS pointed out there's no real way to stop it. The legal/corporate world has figured out that it's impossible to guarantee that "open to all" explicit content platforms only host content that is legal, and the payment facilitators won't allow payments when there's a risk that it's funding illegal porn (rightly, in my opinion) ... the only payment option will be Crypto and at that point it might as well be deepweb.

[Tom4784]

Deleted Post

[Mystic Mock]

Stepmom/MILF G&G fantasy. Probably Brazzers or RealityKings.

Spoiler only contains names of websites.

I wanna say it might've been on XVideos, but they might've gotten the video off Brazzers.

[user104658]

Except it's not. Alcohol abuse can lead to death, and drugs are the same (also, they aren't legal).

An adult man or woman deciding they want to sell their nudes online in itself is not destructive behaviour, and you can't really doubt that OnlyFans seems to work out quite well for more than a good number of people who make money from it.

I “can’t really doubt that it works out quite well”? Do you mean in the sense that it’s possible for some (not most, by the way) to make good short-term money from an OnlFans account?

Because you’d need to show me some sort of evidence that there are often good long term outcomes. In fact, the overwhelming evidence is that sex work in general has absolutely abysmal long term outcomes, so why would Anyone assume that this variety suddenly has positive outcomes unless there’s some actual evidence of that? Short term financial gain is not any measure of a good outcome.

[user104658]

Oh hold on, scratch the entire question above, OnlyFans was founded in 2016 so the longest anyone has been using it for their work is 5 years.

You can’t possibly have any evidence of good long term outcomes, because there are no long term outcomes to be measured.

So the most sensible thing to do is assume that the long term outcomes are similar to the long term outcomes for people in traditional sex work or pornography. i.e. tonnes of evidence that it’s grim, and little to none that it’s positive, other than a handful of very high profile examples.

[thesheriff443]

Having met many many Lap dancers /strippers from all over the world some with kids they did what they did because they could earn enough in two nights to cover all their rent bills and child care costs for the whole month costs

[user104658]

Having met many many Lap dancers /strippers from all over the world some with kids they did what they did because they could earn enough in two nights to cover all their rent bills and child care costs for the whole month costs


“Men will pay a lot for access to women’s bodies” is not evidence of anything positive at all.

All you’re doing is painting an increasingly bleak picture of a world where men are desperate sadsacks with their cocks in their hands, and a huge chunk of women’s earning potential is in selling themselves as sex objects for those men’s enjoyment.

The fact that it’s true that many can earn more doing this than anything else is deeply, deeply depressing.

[thesheriff443]

“Men will pay a lot for access to women’s bodies” is not evidence of anything positive at all.

Listen you have never been in contact with any women that are part of the sex industry basically you haven’t got a clue what it’s like for women actually doing the job

Just someone reading stuff on the internet

Lap dancers are in full control of the situation it’s strictly no touching, and the bouncers take great pleasure in throwing some twat out that pushes his luck.

[Marsh.]

He's not saying they're literally dragged into the job though.

He's saying as a society, those kinds of jobs should not be encouraged. It's a shame of society that a young single mother would even need to work two nights as a lap dancer to pay her bills really.

The jobs will be there if people want to do them. But I imagine there's a disproportionate amount of people who are doing it out of desperation, having no other viable options. I'd be interested to see the figures of people who do those jobs because they want to do them, and not because they feel they have no other options.

[thesheriff443]

He's not saying they're literally dragged into the job though.

He's saying as a society, those kinds of jobs should not be encouraged. It's a shame of society that a young single mother would even need to work two nights as a lap dancer to pay her bills really.

The jobs will be there if people want to do them. But I imagine there's a disproportionate amount of people who are doing it out of desperation, having no other viable options. I'd be interested to see the figures of people who do those jobs because they want to do them, and not because they feel they have no other options.
It’s a false idea to think women don’t enjoy doing it
Women like and enjoy sex and for some doing as part of a job ticks there box’s

[user104658]

It’s a false idea to think women don’t enjoy doing it
Women like and enjoy sex and for some doing as part of a job ticks there box’s


You have absolutely no idea what contact I do or don’t have with whom because I haven’t told anyone what my career is for nearly two and a half years, nor what my qualifications are, nor the specifics of my wife’s work. Because I don’t want to partially doxx myself on this forum. But don’t assume.

Anyway…

You’re doing a better job of arguing against the pro-sex work people on the thread than I am sheriff so honestly I’m just going to let you have at it.

Please tell us more about all of the strippers and sex workers you know and how much they love it. I’m on the edge of my seat!

[Calderyon]

I wanna say it might've been on XVideos, but they might've gotten the video off Brazzers.

Probably seen it at some point.

[bots]

there are an awful lot of people that do jobs they would rather not do for all sorts of reasons, including financial, that have nothing to do with the porn industry. It's not possible to isolate the porn industry and treat it all as some unique thing when it covers a universe of different things. Some of it involves exploitation etc, but the vast majority of it these days is personal choice of the individual involved

[thesheriff443]

You have absolutely no idea what contact I do or don’t have with whom because I haven’t told anyone what my career is for nearly two and a half years, nor what my qualifications are, nor the specifics of my wife’s work. Because I don’t want to partially doxx myself on this forum. But don’t assume.

Anyway…

You’re doing a better job of arguing against the pro-sex work people on the thread than I am sheriff so honestly I’m just going to let you have at it.

Please tell us more about all of the strippers and sex workers you know and how much they love it. I’m on the edge of my seat!

If you want here more about strippers and sex workers go and pay for it like the rest, no wait you already know everything or think you do as usual and suddenly you and your wife work in the sex industry.

You was happy to watch porn for free but if someone pays for it they are sad and pathetic, you are a hypocrite.

[user104658]

If you want here more about strippers and sex workers go and pay for it like the rest, no wait you already know everything or think you do as usual and suddenly you and your wife work in the sex industry.

You was happy to watch porn for free but if someone pays for it they are sad and pathetic, you are a hypocrite.


You have the wrong end of several sticks there sheriff.

[Marsh.]

It’s a false idea to think women don’t enjoy doing it
Women like and enjoy sex and for some doing as part of a job ticks there box’s

None of that bears much relation to what I said. I didn't talk about whether "women" do or do not enjoy sex, I also didn't talk about "women" as though they're all going to have the exact same feelings on the topic. But ok.

If you feel "women have and enjoy sex" and "women have and enjoy sex on camera, with paying customers" are the same sentence then there's no point continuing the exchange.

[Barry.]

You was happy to watch porn for free but if someone pays for it they are sad and pathetic, you are a hypocrite.

Yes! Finally it has been said but I think this goes for one person in this thread though and not TS

[Marsh.]

there are an awful lot of people that do jobs they would rather not do for all sorts of reasons, including financial, that have nothing to do with the porn industry. It's not possible to isolate the porn industry and treat it all as some unique thing when it covers a universe of different things. Some of it involves exploitation etc, but the vast majority of it these days is personal choice of the individual involved

Do you have evidence to back that up?

Nobody's asking to eradicate "all jobs people would rather not do". We've all had the jobs we've had to take because needs must. But sex work is not comparable to working as a toilet cleaner or a server in McDonald's.

[Mystic Mock]

Oh hold on, scratch the entire question above, OnlyFans was founded in 2016 so the longest anyone has been using it for their work is 5 years.

You can’t possibly have any evidence of good long term outcomes, because there are no long term outcomes to be measured.

So the most sensible thing to do is assume that the long term outcomes are similar to the long term outcomes for people in traditional sex work or pornography. i.e. tonnes of evidence that it’s grim, and little to none that it’s positive, other than a handful of very high profile examples.

The only thing I'd say Toy Soldier is what would you realistically do to improve the sex industry? Like it or not it's not going away, and making it illegal would just put some of these people into more dangerous work within the sex industry.

I agree with you that the industry has problems (as most entertainment industries do) but how would you fix young people (but of legal age) from doing Porn?

[Mystic Mock]

Probably seen it at some point.

Hopefully you haven't.

[Calderyon]

Hopefully you haven't.

Probably have.

[Niamh.]

So from reading this thread, some men think that women go into the sex industry cos they love sex and all these random men they meet make them happy and pay them too. Bonus. The End. Wonderful

[Calderyon]

I still find the incest Porn the most shocking content of them all.D:

I remember sadly catching one where this family had this girl staying over for the night, and the older woman says to her "give Mother a kiss.":yuk:

The stuff of nightmares, I prefer my Vanilla Porn.

There is much, much more shocking than that, I'm afraid.

And that's actually a quite popular genre.

[thesheriff443]

So from reading this thread, some men think that women go into the sex industry cos they love sex and all these random men they meet make them happy and pay them too. Bonus. The End. Wonderful


No not at all!
Some on here talking like women are so weak they can’t think for themselves and and are forced into doing fans only or other sex based stuff or that it’s all about a mans needs

The majority of Woman like sex and some woman like porn

Some women go and see male strippers

The false idea that women are play things for men is bollox

[user104658]

The only thing I'd say Toy Soldier is what would you realistically do to improve the sex industry? Like it or not it's not going away, and making it illegal would just put some of these people into more dangerous work within the sex industry.

I agree with you that the industry has problems (as most entertainment industries do) but how would you fix young people (but of legal age) from doing Porn?


I can only repeat what I’ve said before - it’s not about making it illegal and I even agree with making it as safe as possible for the people who find themselves in that world. I just wish people would stop with the fantasy that it’s “just like any other job” or even that it’s a good thing, and actively encouraging young people to believe that selling nudes and explicit videos online is a normal next step at 18 if they have large TikTok or Instagram followings at 16, when actually they’re far, far too young to understand the long term consequences (the vast majority of the time they are not good, despite what people seem to want us all to believe, this is very well studied), and are dazzled by the attention and $$$ signs and an idea that “everyone is doing it”. People have gone into sex work for as long as civilisation has existed, that’s true, and it’s true that it’s never going to stop happening completely, and I again fully agree that people who are in that world should be as safe as possible, but we need to stop pretending that the HUGE increase in the number of teenage girls going into “home made porn” in the last few years thanks to platforms like OnlyFans either isn’t happening, or is somehow socially positive.

At the very, very least I would increase the age at which it’s legal to sell those sorts of pics and videos. Personally I’d love to say 25 but realistically even 21 would be far better than 18. I know people like to spam the absolute myth that people suddenly become fully fledged responsible adults on their 18th birthday for some arbitrary reason… but it’s a fairly obvious truth that people grow up a lot in the first few years of “becoming an adult”. An 18 year old is fresh out of high school and most have no idea at all about the world. How could they? I think far fewer teenage social media “stars” would go into selling nudes at 21 when they’ve actually been living as an adult for 3 years, than the number who do at 18 thinking it’s a fast track to good money fresh out of the classroom, and because they’ve seen so many other 18 year old girls do the same before them.

It would also partially limit the absolutely huge and disgusting issue of adults following kids from age 15/16 “waiting” for them to turn 18 and post nudes, and also some of the ambiguity of 16 and 17 year olds posting illegal content claiming to be 18.

So there you go I guess, those who have been asking for solutions. In my ideal world this would not be happening at all. If you want an actual simple pragmatic improvement in the grim real world - up the age requirement for being on these platforms to at least 21.

[user104658]

No not at all!
Some on here talking like women are so weak they can’t think for themselves and and are forced into doing fans only or other sex based stuff or that it’s all about a mans needs

The majority of Woman like sex and some woman like porn

Some women go and see male strippers

The false idea that women are play things for men is bollox


No one is saying women don’t like sex Sheriff, the difference between “enjoying sex” and “being a sex worker” should be pretty clear surely? You’re really not getting the point to be honest.

Yes women can think for themselves,

Yes women enjoy sex.

No women should not be thought of as sex objects. Which is why it shouldn’t be possible to buy them, like sex objects, or spreading the idea that selling their bodies like objects is empowering or good. Many men DO see women as objects and the fact that they’ll open their wallets and “buy them” instead of seeking a mutual, equal encounter with someone who wants the same as them without being paid for it is just more evidence of that.

No one is talking about women being forced into OnlyFans (although there are countless women across the world forced into all sorts of sex work) - this thread has quite clearly been about people being encouraged into low-level sex work by a general societal impression that it’s normal or even desirable as a money-making choice. If you think that people’s choices aren’t influenced by trends and normalisation… we’ll you just don’t understand social psychology. Which is fine but it is what it is.

As for it “all being about the man’s needs”? Well yes it is all about the buyer’s needs. The sex worker is providing a service that the man needs (actually let’s not say needs, it’s a “want”, not a “need”, framing it as a “need” is what leads to things like Incel).

“Some women like it too” is a total red herring. Yes many women watch porn. But the vast majority of buyers of sex worker services/subscription holders on sites like OnlyFans are adult men. And the vast majority of sellers are girls in their late teens and early 20’s. I’ve seen people on this thread alternately arguing that either that isn’t true, or suggesting that it isn’t a problem. Gobsmackingly, I would imagine some of those people even consider themselves feminist.

[Oliver_W]

So from reading this thread, some men think that women go into the sex industry cos they love sex and all these random men they meet make them happy and pay them too. Bonus. The End. Wonderful
Not to go off on a tangent but that's modern neoliberal "feminism" all over, which seems more anti-rights for women than anything else. How did we get to the point where feminists are supporting the idea of males being in women's spaces, including a fricken rufuge ...until fairly recently, Women's March propped up a "feminist" Who supports shariah law ... and they also seem to think sex work is something to be encouraged.

I'm not a woman and I don't particularly identify as a feminist, but I still think the movement needs a word with itself.

ANYWAY

would just put some of these people into more dangerous work within the sex industry.
Why would someone not being able to sell nudes online automatically mean they'd have to become prostitutes?

[Marsh.]

No not at all!
Some on here talking like women are so weak they can’t think for themselves and and are forced into doing fans only or other sex based stuff or that it’s all about a mans needs

The majority of Woman like sex and some woman like porn

Some women go and see male strippers

The false idea that women are play things for men is bollox

It's naive that you think sex work is about the woman enjoying sex when the vast majority of it is aimed squarely at the satisfaction of the bloke.

[Tom4784]

Deleted Post

[user104658]

Sex work will always be a thing, and the whole idea of 'sex work is work' is not to encourage people to do it, but to legitimise it so that it can be made safer for those who do it.


I understand it on that level but can you concede that things are not always taken at face value, and will be interpreted in different ways by different people? I’ve always supported decriminalisation for safety, and to reduce the risk of things like trafficking and sex slavery, which are still horrifyingly common, but the “TikTok situation” just can’t be ignored for much longer. It’s become the bulk of platforms like OnlyFans and it’s just seen as so normal but leads to so much regret.

One of the worst parts is that “everyone making amazing money” is actually a myth… it’s becoming an oversaturated market so what actually happens is that half of these people end up with their nudes/videos out there and a few hundred £ in their bank and that’s it. “The Dream” of buying a house and driving a brand new car turns out to be a complete fantasy.

[Niamh.]

Not to go off on a tangent but that's modern neoliberal "feminism" all over, which seems more anti-rights for women than anything else. How did we get to the point where feminists are supporting the idea of males being in women's spaces, including a fricken rufuge ...until fairly recently, Women's March propped up a "feminist" Who supports shariah law ... and they also seem to think sex work is something to be encouraged.



I'm not a woman and I don't particularly identify as a feminist, but I still think the movement needs a word with itself.



ANYWAY





Why would someone not being able to sell nudes online automatically mean they'd have to become prostitutes?Seems split into two groups now, liberal and Radical

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[Alf]

GB news had pornstar Brooklyn Blue on their show to discuss this.



1429501118850080773

[Crimson Dynamo]

money for old rope

never really is money for old rope

there is always a price to pay

[user104658]

money for old rope

never really is money for old rope

there is always a price to pay

Don't you make a living literally selling old rope though :think:.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Don't you make a living literally selling old rope though :think:.

vintage rope


Huge difference

but one has to........make ends meet

https://c.tenor.com/pgDYymTrrtAAAAAd/monkey-badum-tss.gif

[bots]

oops ....


OnlyFans has announced that it will delay making changes to policy on content creation, following a widespread backlash by its users.

The content subscription service announced plans last week to block sexually explicit photos and videos from October.

On Wednesday, it tweeted that it has "suspended the planned 1 October policy change".

It is currently unclear if the delay will be permanent.

OnlyFans wrote on twitter that it would "continue to provide a home for all creators".

"Thank you to everyone for making your voices heard," said the company.

"We have secured assurances necessary to support our diverse creator community and have suspended the planned 1 October policy change.

"OnlyFans stands for inclusion and we will continue to provide a home for all creators."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-58331722

[michael21]

oops ....


OnlyFans has announced that it will delay making changes to policy on content creation, following a widespread backlash by its users.

The content subscription service announced plans last week to block sexually explicit photos and videos from October.

On Wednesday, it tweeted that it has "suspended the planned 1 October policy change".

It is currently unclear if the delay will be permanent.

OnlyFans wrote on twitter that it would "continue to provide a home for all creators".

"Thank you to everyone for making your voices heard," said the company.

"We have secured assurances necessary to support our diverse creator community and have suspended the planned 1 October policy change.

"OnlyFans stands for inclusion and we will continue to provide a home for all creators."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-58331722

Yes there making to much money by truning a blind eye

[Glenn.]

A wise decision considering the major contributor of content is sex

[user104658]

Another win for patriarchal neoliberal consumerism. Well done progressives. At least we can get a chuckle from the sad irony, I guess.

[Cherie]

vintage rope


Huge difference

but one has to........make ends meet

https://c.tenor.com/pgDYymTrrtAAAAAd/monkey-badum-tss.gif

Hanging by a thread there LT

[The Slim Reaper]

Another win for patriarchal neoliberal consumerism. Well done progressives. At least we can get a chuckle from the sad irony, I guess.

They changed their policy after complaints from their customers. That's consumerist capitalism, not progressivism.

[thesheriff443]

Hanging by a thread there LT

With this u turn Cherie there is still time to get your canons out:laugh:

[user104658]

They changed their policy after complaints from their customers. That's consumerist capitalism, not progressivism.


Exactly the point Slim, not like you to have it sail over your head :think:

[Cherie]

With this u turn Cherie there is still time to get your canons out:laugh:

It’s more your thing isn’t it

[thesheriff443]

It’s more your thing isn’t it

Not on any fans only sites wouldn’t know even how to access it.

[user104658]

It’s more your thing isn’t it


Sheriff likes to buy his women on the flesh market Cherie, not online.

[thesheriff443]

Sheriff likes to buy his women on the flesh market Cherie, not online.

I don’t buy woman, that comment sums up you up.

[user104658]

I don’t buy woman, that comment sums up you up.


You very strongly implied that you do or have paid strippers and sex workers. My apologies if I got the wrong end of the stick.

[Glenn.]

Even if he has what’s it to anyone?

[thesheriff443]

You very strongly implied that you do or have paid strippers and sex workers. My apologies if I got the wrong end of the stick.

You got it wrong I’ve never paid for sex In my life, I’ve had lots of women but never paid to sleep with them and seriously at one stage considered doing escort work as a job.

Yes I’ve had lap dances in the the past but the reason I’ve met many strippers and lap dancer’s is I used to do door security for pubs and clubs hosting exotic dancers and lap dancers.

I will always question people who claim to be whiter than white because they are the ones usually hiding stuff.

[user104658]

Even if he has what’s it to anyone?

I mean there's a whole thread of posts, if you either didn't read those or didn't understand them, I'm not sure why I'd bother writing another post about it now :think:

[user104658]

You got it wrong I’ve never paid for sex In my life, I’ve had lots of women but never paid to sleep with them and seriously at one stage considered doing escort work as a job.

Yes I’ve had lap dances in the the past but the reason I’ve met many strippers and lap dancer’s is I used to do door security for pubs and clubs hosting exotic dancers and lap dancers.

I will always question people who claim to be whiter than white because they are the ones usually hiding stuff.

Hmm fair enough. I suppose the obvious next question then, is why not?

[GoldHeart]

I've never been on OnlyFans but I assumed it was a platform exclusively for cam*****s :joker:

What will the "sex 'workers' " do now?!

Why are people acting as if 'only fans' is the only platform they use.
Twitch alone does nothing about innapropriate content,and CHILDREN use that website for god sake :bored: .

[Oliver_W]

Why are people acting as if 'only fans' is the only platform they use.
Twitch alone does nothing about innapropriate content,and CHILDREN use that website for god sake :bored: .

It's an endemic, for sure.

[thesheriff443]

Hmm fair enough. I suppose the obvious next question then, is why not?

Because if you are having sex for free or in a relationship there is no need to pay for it.
Plus the idea that lap dancers will simply sleep with people for money is simply not true.

[Oliver_W]

Because if you are having sex for free or in a relationship there is no need to pay for it.
Plus the idea that lap dancers will simply sleep with people for money is simply not true.

Thanks for carrying out the market research :hehe:

[user104658]

Because if you are having sex for free or in a relationship there is no need to pay for it.

So if you can get it as a freebie you don't need to buy it, but if you can't, you do need to buy it?

[arista]

The Banks have said
it was not them telling the site to change......


R5
5AM Business Hour

Times Radio DAB

[thesheriff443]

So if you can get it as a freebie you don't need to buy it, but if you can't, you do need to buy it?

I’ve never needed to pay for sex but if I did I don’t see the problem

You do know it’s not only men that pay for sex?

[user104658]

I’ve never needed to pay for sex but if I did I don’t see the problem

I know you don't see the problem.

My question wasn't intended for you specifically, so to phrase it better:

Are you saying that people who can "get free sex" obviously have no need to pay for sex, but those who can't "get free sex" need to pay for it?

You do know it’s not only men that pay for sex?

Over 80% of prostitutes are female and of the 20% of prostitutes that are male, the vast majority of their clients are also male. Female clients make up less than 1% of the total. 99% male. False argument.

[Tom4784]

Deleted Post

[Oliver_W]

Good news for the content creators on that site, I'd rather sex workers work through Onlyfans than on the streets or in porn when it's someone else calling the shots.

So you just assume that without being able to strip for simps on camera, they'd automatically have to become prostitutes?

[Tom4784]

Deleted Post

[Oliver_W]

Things like Onlyfans is the best and safest option for sex workers, what I said is that I'd prefer they all do OF than work for others in porn or walk the streets, not that it would be their natural progression without OF.


If you don't think there's a natural progression, you may as well have said you'd rather they be on OF than juggle chainsaws while blindfolded. Selling nudes and prostitution may both fall under the banner of " 'sex' 'work' ", but otherwise they have little in common, apart from carrying long-term damage. And that includes to young males whose perceptions get warped by overdosing on porn.

It's just a deeply toxic "industry" all round.

[Tom4784]

Deleted Post

[user104658]

The thing is though there’s this massive misconception that OF is guaranteed big bucks if you’re willing to perform when it’s just not true, and that promise of cash that never materialised is what lures a lot of young women into it.

The actual facts broken down are that A VERY SMALL NUMBER of high-profile individuals can make crazy money from it, a chunk of others make what you’d consider a decent full time income from it and can live comfortably on it. The vast majority do not make big money from OF. Those who were already sex workers often consider it “supplemental income” and they’re still engaging in traditional sex work, and in fact use it to find more in-person clients. And a not insignificant number who went onto OF thinking they’d make big money from selling photos and videos find that they aren’t making that money - but have a message inbox full of bigger money offers for sex in person. Inevitably some are tempted into what can obviously be a very risky situation, especially for a 20 year old who has no real idea what they’re getting into.

And then of course there’s the majority. Who make next to no money from it, don’t get tempted into taking it further, and (as I said above) end up having made no more than a few hundred pounds from it but having to live with the anxiety of knowing that some random people on the internet have their nudes and can do whatever they want with them, because they naively thought they could make a fortune at 18 “like other girls did”.

It’s also been used BY pimps and traffickers to target girls - exactly those ones - the ones who came to the party thinking they were going to be loaded, ended up making very little, but are clearly “enthusiastic”. Prime targets for someone offering them a meet up, or offering them bigger cash to be in traditional porn.

[bots]

the ones that make money from it will be like the highly popular porn/cam models. It's like all these things, if you don't have a following you will earn nothing, and it's impossible to stand out from the crowd

[Oliver_W]

The thing is though there’s this massive misconception that OF is guaranteed big bucks if you’re willing to perform when it’s just not true, and that promise of cash that never materialised is what lures a lot of young women into it.

The actual facts broken down are that A VERY SMALL NUMBER of high-profile individuals can make crazy money from it, a chunk of others make what you’d consider a decent full time income from it and can live comfortably on it. The vast majority do not make big money from OF. Those who were already sex workers often consider it “supplemental income” and they’re still engaging in traditional sex work, and in fact use it to find more in-person clients. And a not insignificant number who went onto OF thinking they’d make big money from selling photos and videos find that they aren’t making that money - but have a message inbox full of bigger money offers for sex in person. Inevitably some are tempted into what can obviously be a very risky situation, especially for a 20 year old who has no real idea what they’re getting into.

And then of course there’s the majority. Who make next to no money from it, don’t get tempted into taking it further, and (as I said above) end up having made no more than a few hundred pounds from it but having to live with the anxiety of knowing that some random people on the internet have their nudes and can do whatever they want with them, because they naively thought they could make a fortune at 18 “like other girls did”.

It’s also been used BY pimps and traffickers to target girls - exactly those ones - the ones who came to the party thinking they were going to be loaded, ended up making very little, but are clearly “enthusiastic”. Prime targets for someone offering them a meet up, or offering them bigger cash to be in traditional porn.
Yup, so people basically have their nudes on the internet forever, tainting their lives and credibility... All for nothing.

[user104658]

the ones that make money from it will be like the highly popular porn/cam models. It's like all these things, if you don't have a following you will earn nothing, and it's impossible to stand out from the crowd


Tes and that sort of makes me think the biggest issue might just resolve itself over time. The more saturated the market becomes, the less it will seem like “everyone” is making big money from it, and so it will lose appeal as a guaranteed way to make money.

The fact that it’s a “market” at all is still deeply depressing, though. Sad that there are girls who are drawn into out out of a desire to profit or simple necessity… sad that there are so many men out there who want to buy it.