Should marijuana be legalised?

[Redway]

I’m sure this thread’s been done to death on here over the years but I recently stumbled across an interview with Pam St Clement who expressed pretty similar sentiments to my take on the issue (and I’m sure a lot of others share that sentiment as well). Said sentiment being that prohibition of the drug causes more harm than good and that it should be made legalised.

https://youtu.be/yedDB-WnMQk

[thesheriff443]

No it should be moved up a class it has clear links to mental health problems
It’s usually the starting point for drug user’s and drug sellers
It stinks
White people smoke it and talk like they are a Rastafarian straight out of Jamaica and talk complete bollox

[LaLaLand]

I don't know enough to vote for the first option but I do know it's incredible at aiding sufferers of various ailments and what not. Arthritis, Parkinson's, various pain disorders etc.

[Redway]

No it should be moved up a class it has clear links to mental health problems
It’s usually the starting point for drug user’s and drug sellers
It stinks
White people smoke it and talk like they are a Rastafarian straight out of Jamaica and talk complete bollox

The mental health issues are more the effect of unregulated street weed (with disproportionately high THC to CBD and possible contamination with other substances) than anything else. Pure cannabis (the type obtainable in countries where weed’s decriminalised/legalised) seems to be much better for those things.

I’d rather random people talking Rastafarian than going out picking fights with anyone with a pulse and stripping naked on the streets (the effects of alcohol) but that’s just me.

[Redway]

Also: weed having a certain dank smell isn’t tangible grounds for keeping it illegal (tobacco smells even worse and has long-known adverse health effects even in its pure regulated form and that remains legal).

I haven’t made this thread for the sake of arguing or to push a super-duper pro-weed narrative (I’m fairly indifferent about what other people choose to do or not do) but I just find it hard to find any arguments against its legalisation/decriminalisation that aren’t based solely on personal preference or ironic anecdotes about it being harmful for mental health (when it’s been more or less proven that illegalisation is a big contributing factor to it).

[thesheriff443]

The mental health issues are more the effect of unregulated street weed (with disproportionately high THC to CBD and possible contamination with other substances) than anything else. Pure cannabis (the type obtainable in countries where weed’s decriminalised/legalised) seems to be much better for those things.

I’d rather random people talking Rastafarian than going out picking fights with anyone with a pulse and stripping naked on the streets (the effects of alcohol) but that’s just me.

It’s interesting you mention alcohol because drug driving is just as serious and reckless as drink driving

A human brain does not work the same when it’s under the influence of drink or drugs

The idea that if smoking weed fills the world with chilled out people is nonexistent

Dealing and growing weed is highly profitable and run by gangs that use violence to keep or take control of areas

Only recently 3 people were convicted of murder after rivals broke into a grow house and a fight broke out, two people were killed with a cross bow and in the struggle one guy shot and killed his own brother

[Niamh.]

It’s interesting you mention alcohol because drug driving is just as serious and reckless as drink driving

A human brain does not work the same when it’s under the influence of drink or drugs

The idea that if smoking weed fills the world with chilled out people is nonexistent

Dealing and growing weed is highly profitable and run by gangs that use violence to keep or take control of areas

Only recently 3 people were convicted of murder after rivals broke into a grow house and a fight broke out, two people were killed with a cross bow and in the struggle one guy shot and killed his own brother

Legalising it would massively reduce that though. People wouldn't have to buy it from criminals anymore

[thesheriff443]

Legalising it would massively reduce that though. People wouldn't have to buy it from criminals anymore

That would not stop the problem

Fags are legal but people still buy and sell illegal fags

Then there would be people saying legal weed is not as strong or good as non illegal weed and create a black market

Plus you get the idiots that say smoking weed is better for you than fags when you break a fag and remove the filter to make a spliff

[Niamh.]

That would not stop the problem

Fags are legal but people still buy and sell illegal fags

Then there would be people saying legal weed is not as strong or good as non illegal weed and create a black market

Plus you get the idiots that say smoking weed is better for you than fags when you break a fag and remove the filter to make a spliff

I didn't say it would stop it but it would greatly reduce it imo Most people would opt for the legal option if the option was there, just like most people buy legal cigarettes rather than the black market cigarettes

[thesheriff443]

I didn't say it would stop it but it would greatly reduce it imo Most people would opt for the legal option if the option was there, just like most people buy legal cigarettes rather than the black market cigarettes

Unless it stops the illegal side of things you are just making a two tier problem

People that smoke weed are not all young single people many have families the money that is spent on weed is taken from the family pot, weed causes harm in a family setting

Weed is a drug like any other and like cocaine it’s marketed as a recreational drug

We should not be encouraging or giving people an option to do drugs

Because alcohol is legal and that destroys so many lives

[Niamh.]

Unless it stops the illegal side of things you are just making a two tier problem

People that smoke weed are not all young single people many have families the money that is spent on weed is taken from the family pot, weed causes harm in a family setting

Weed is a drug like any other and like cocaine it’s marketed as a recreational drug

We should not be encouraging or giving people an option to do drugs

Because alcohol is legal and that destroys so many lives

Practically everything "has an illegal side" you can buy most things on the black market.

Yes drugs and alcohol can cause issues if abused but it's very nanny state like to take away the choice for everyone because some people have addictive personalities :shrug:

***I don't smoke marijuana so this isn't coming from me wanting to smoke it :laugh:

[The Slim Reaper]

Niamh when she gets home, popping Marley on the stereo and putting on her beanie with dreads attached.

[The Slim Reaper]

It’s interesting you mention alcohol because drug driving is just as serious and reckless as drink driving

A human brain does not work the same when it’s under the influence of drink or drugs

The idea that if smoking weed fills the world with chilled out people is nonexistent

Dealing and growing weed is highly profitable and run by gangs that use violence to keep or take control of areas

Only recently 3 people were convicted of murder after rivals broke into a grow house and a fight broke out, two people were killed with a cross bow and in the struggle one guy shot and killed his own brother

Driving on weed is nowhere near as dangerous and reckless as alcohol.

[Niamh.]

Niamh when she gets home, popping Marley on the stereo and putting on her beanie with dreads attached.

:laugh:

[joeysteele]

I'm not 100% the way to thinking it should be legalised.
However if asked to make a decision now, I'd say yes.

[thesheriff443]

Driving on weed is nowhere near as dangerous and reckless as alcohol.

It’s a criminal offence so you are wrong

[The Slim Reaper]

It’s a criminal offence so you are wrong

Legality is a completely different metric to danger.

It's illegal to walk up to a stranger and punch them in the face, and also to stab someone in the neck, but those things are not equal when it comes to danger.

[Beso]

Yes it should, and it should be compulsory.

[user104658]

Decriminalised but not legalised. The idea that alcohol & tobacco being legal has "caused less harm than good" is nonsense and in fact serves AS evidence that legalising a drug normalises the use of that drug and increases uptake 100-fold.

Weed is used to self-medicate - always a bad idea.

It has quite serious links to depression and anxiety. This is often excused as "Oh it doesn't CAUSE those things, people use it to help with those things so that's why it's linked". This claim is usually made by people who don't want to stop using it. There are clear links to a worsening effect, escalating problematic use (i.e. being unable to lead a normal functioning life due to spending too much time inebriated) and a myriad of negative effects, especially over time.

In the above sense (when used to self-medicate) it absolutely is a foothold to harder drugs.

Driving on weed is nowhere near as dangerous and reckless as alcohol.

Myths like this exist which are EXTREMELY dangerous and I sincerely hope that anyone who drives high gets caught, today, and loses their license on the spot. DO NOT DRIVE HIGH. It is HUGELY dangerous and reckless. It is a depressant. In smaller amounts it lowers your reaction times significantly, just like driving on a small amount of alcohol. In larger amounts it completely removes your ability to operate the vehicle normally. Just like large amounts of alcohol. Don't do it - and don't spread the myth that it's "less reckless" than driving drunk.

The health and social implications of full legalisation (and thus commercialisation) are absolutely massive. It's fine as it is. Decriminalise possession and use, and small-scale dealing and even small-scale growing. Beyond that? No, we don't want a world where the majority of the adult population is smoking weed as well as getting drunk every weekend.

I'm not even being puritan about this - I smoked it numerous times as a teen/at University like pretty much everyone else. Keep it there where it belongs.

(100% legalise for legitimate medical use though, that's a separate debate)

[rusticgal]

Driving on weed is nowhere near as dangerous and reckless as alcohol.


But doesn't weed make you feel 'Drunk'?

[The Slim Reaper]

Myths like this exist which are EXTREMELY dangerous and I sincerely hope that anyone who drives high gets caught, today, and loses their license on the spot. DO NOT DRIVE HIGH. It is HUGELY dangerous and reckless. It is a depressant. In smaller amounts it lowers your reaction times significantly, just like driving on a small amount of alcohol. In larger amounts it completely removes your ability to operate the vehicle normally. Just like large amounts of alcohol. Don't do it - and don't spread the myth that it's "less reckless" than driving drunk.

The health and social implications of full legalisation (and thus commercialisation) are absolutely massive. It's fine as it is. Decriminalise possession and use, and small-scale dealing and even small-scale growing. Beyond that? No, we don't want a world where the majority of the adult population is smoking weed as well as getting drunk every weekend.

I'm not even being puritan about this - I smoked it numerous times as a teen/at University like pretty much everyone else. Keep it there where it belongs.

(100% legalise for legitimate medical use though, that's a separate debate)

I'm talking from personal experience. I believe I've spoken about this before, but they're not equal in anyway whatsoever. I'm not advocating that folks get off their tits and go joyriding, but I'm telling you there are very real differences between the experiences. I've driven on most substances, and alcohol and mushrooms are a level apart when it comes to reckless and danger.

I'm not proud of this, either; it's not a boast, I'm just telling you from my experience how different those experiences are.

[The Slim Reaper]

But doesn't weed make you feel 'Drunk'?

I'm sure most people have different experiences, but the high from weed is completely different from the buzz of alcohol.

[user104658]

I'm talking from personal experience. I believe I've spoken about this before, but they're not equal in anyway whatsoever. I'm not advocating that folks get off their tits and go joyriding, but I'm telling you there are very real differences between the experiences. I've driven on most substances, and alcohol and mushrooms are a level apart when it comes to reckless and danger.

I'm not proud of this, either; it's not a boast, I'm just telling you from my experience how different those experiences are.

Smoking weed doesn't lead to as many crashes as alcohol use because weed smoking doesn't increase risk-taking behaviours in the same way (and can actually result in people being over-cautious when driving) so that means they're far less likely to speed or to attempt a dumb overtaking manoeuvre (possibly even less likely than a sober person) and so it has a far less disastrous effect on "routine driving". HOWEVER, how it affects your reaction times on observing a hazard and your stopping distance in an unexpected scenario (such as an unseen pedestrian stepping out from behind something) is all that objectively matters and the difference is practically zero. Weed slows your reactions just as much as alcohol. You might be able to steer better and not have that typical "swerving about the road" that's a sign of a drunk driver, and not be tanking down a country road at 80 or YOLO overtaking on blind corners, but your reaction times and stopping distance is just as badly affected... so whilst you're not creating as many risky scenarios... your ability to react to a scenario caused by someone else is just as imparied and a pedestrian stepping out is just as dead.

[user104658]

I'm sure most people have different experiences, but the high from weed is completely different from the buzz of alcohol.

Again subjectively how it feels is not necessarily the reality of neurological effect; THC is not a stimulant. You don't get "high" on weed, it's chemically impossible, it's a depressive that produces dopamine, which is exactly what alcohol does. It's just a "cleaner" dopamine flood. You're still doped-up.

It's also the reason that - just like daily drinking - habitual regular use beats the **** out of your D1 dopamine receptors, making normal dopamine levels ineffective at regulating mood. i.e. it causes depression and anxiety and your only options are to

1) continue to flood with excess dopamine (continue daily drinking or smoking)

2) Compensate with serotonin increases (i.e. SSRI antidepressants, or obsessive exercise for tryptophan release. Often neither are enough.)

or 3) stop for long enough to (hopefully) allow the dopamine receptors to return to normal function (if they're not damaged beyond repair).

So again ... ... no to legalisation and normalisation.

[The Slim Reaper]

Smoking weed doesn't lead to as many crashes as alcohol use because weed smoking doesn't increase risk-taking behaviours in the same way (and can actually result in people being over-cautious when driving) so that means they're far less likely to speed or to attempt a dumb overtaking manoeuvre (possibly even less likely than a sober person) and so it has a far less disastrous effect on "routine driving". HOWEVER, how it affects your reaction times on observing a hazard and your stopping distance in an unexpected scenario (such as an unseen pedestrian stepping out from behind something) is all that objectively matters and the difference is practically zero. Weed slows your reactions just as much as alcohol. You might be able to steer better and not have that typical "swerving about the road" that's a sign of a drunk driver, and not be tanking down a country road at 80 or YOLO overtaking on blind corners, but your reaction times and stopping distance is just as badly affected... so whilst you're not creating as many risky scenarios... your ability to react to a scenario caused by someone else is just as imparied and a pedestrian stepping out is just as dead.

I didn't say it doesn't have any affect at all, I just said it was on a completely different level of danger, which I completely stand by without any hesitation. To this day, I'd hop in a car without any fear if one of my friends was driving baked, but I'd never get in the motor with a drunk driver. Maybe that complacency is also dangerous (it's not even remotely likely these days) but it's borne out of over a decade worth of unintentional testing.

[user104658]

I didn't say it doesn't have any affect at all, I just said it was on a completely different level of danger, which I completely stand by without any hesitation. To this day, I'd hop in a car without any fear if one of my friends was driving baked, but I'd never get in the motor with a drunk driver. Maybe that complacency is also dangerous (it's not even remotely likely these days) but it's borne out of over a decade worth of unintentional testing.

If one of my friends was trying to drive baked I'd throw his keys down a drain, report him, and hope he loses his licence for his own good and the good of every other road user and pedestrian... so I suspect this is one of the things we see quite differently.

[The Slim Reaper]

Again subjectively how it feels is not necessarily the reality of neurological effect; THC is not a stimulant. You don't get "high" on weed, it's chemically impossible, it's a depressive that produces dopamine, which is exactly what alcohol does. It's just a "cleaner" dopamine flood. You're still doped-up.

It's also the reason that - just like daily drinking - habitual regular use beats the **** out of your D1 dopamine receptors, making normal dopamine levels ineffective at regulating mood. i.e. it causes depression and anxiety and your only options are to

1) continue to flood with excess dopamine (continue daily drinking or smoking)

2) Compensate with serotonin increases (i.e. SSRI antidepressants, or obsessive exercise for tryptophan release. Often neither are enough.)

or 3) stop for long enough to (hopefully) allow the dopamine receptors to return to normal function (if they're not damaged beyond repair).

So again ... ... no to legalisation and normalisation.

But using those words to describe the difference to someone who obviously didn't really have a clue (Not using that in a demeaning way, rusti) is a completely reasonable thing to do as it used the commonly known parlance descriptors.

[The Slim Reaper]

If one of my friends was trying to drive baked I'd throw his keys down a drain, report him, and hope he loses his licence for his own good and the good of every other road user and pedestrian... so I suspect this is one of the things we see quite differently.

https://c.tenor.com/v0GELOU0b1sAAAAC/snitches-get-stitches.gif

[Calderyon]

Only for medicinal purposes.

[Marsh.]

Only for medicinal purposes.

.

[Redway]

Smoking weed doesn't lead to as many crashes as alcohol use because weed smoking doesn't increase risk-taking behaviours in the same way (and can actually result in people being over-cautious when driving) so that means they're far less likely to speed or to attempt a dumb overtaking manoeuvre (possibly even less likely than a sober person) and so it has a far less disastrous effect on "routine driving". HOWEVER, how it affects your reaction times on observing a hazard and your stopping distance in an unexpected scenario (such as an unseen pedestrian stepping out from behind something) is all that objectively matters and the difference is practically zero. Weed slows your reactions just as much as alcohol. You might be able to steer better and not have that typical "swerving about the road" that's a sign of a drunk driver, and not be tanking down a country road at 80 or YOLO overtaking on blind corners, but your reaction times and stopping distance is just as badly affected... so whilst you're not creating as many risky scenarios... your ability to react to a scenario caused by someone else is just as imparied and a pedestrian stepping out is just as dead.

Anyone dumb enough to attempt driving while high shouldn’t be smoking weed in the first place. The exact ways in which high driving might be worse than drunk driving are irrelevant because you shouldn’t be driving while intoxicated anyway. And in any case drunk driving causes more deaths than high driving and that’s the biggest quantitative measure of damage.

[Marsh.]

Yeah, one might be more dangerous than the other but both are dangerous and shouldn't be done.

[thesheriff443]

https://c.tenor.com/v0GELOU0b1sAAAAC/snitches-get-stitches.gif

The irony

[The Slim Reaper]

The irony

:joker:

[GoldHeart]

I've spoken about this before , but the actual cannabis plant isn't the problem .. it's how it's taken/ used which is.

Smoking it has zero health benefits other than to get stoned, so of course they think it calms them, but when it's smoked it stinks .

But if it was used the right way in Oil forms,or boiled in water then it would be far better ,and you wouldn't have the weird side effects IE paranoia , feeling sick , hallucinations , feeling drowsy etc .

The actual sativa seed is great for the skin and I've used it in face wash and lotions ,and it helps joint pains. You could even have a bath in it and it would be much healthier than smoking it.

[AnnieK]

I think it should definitely be decriminalised, wouldn't bother me if it were legal either. I don't smoke it any more but I have done a lot in the past. I have also driven stoned - back in the early 90s. I have been in cars with people off their faces on a whole range of drugs after clubs. We always felt like we weren't doing that much wrong as no-one drank alcohol but looking back - people were tripping their faces off :eek:

Today, things are very different with roadside swab tests but in the 90s you didn't really worry too much. Looking back, its a wonder there wasn't terrible consequences but it was never something we considered when piling out of a club and going on to the next meet up.

[bots]

i would increase the severity of sentences, not make it legal

[user104658]

i would increase the severity of sentences, not make it legal


I wouldn’t make the punishments more severe, weed is bought (by most) through a low-level local dealer who isn’t pushing hard drugs. If you make it too risky for Bob Next Door to sell a little bag of weed, it’ll go into the hands of those who are already selling hard drugs, and those people will try to tempt their buyers into trying other drugs.

[LaLaLand]

This just blew my mind the first time I saw it, like a miracle:

zNT8Zo_sfwo

[Livia]

Yes, legalise it across the board... and immediately for medical purposes. I would like to see all drugs decriminalised and available where they can be regulated and help given to people who need it. Take the criminals out of the equation.

[Redway]

Nice to see you around, Liv.

[Livia]

Nice to see you around, Liv.

Thanks, Red... nice to see you too x

[Tom4784]

Deleted Post

[user104658]

It does not help with anxiety. It causes or worsens anxiety and depression. This has not only been widely studied, but the actual neuropsychological mechanism for WHY it causes or worsens anxiety and depression is well understood.

"Weed helps anxiety" is one of the most dangerous myths around. Sure it helps alleviate anxiety in the short term. So does alcohol. Drinking or smoking weed to help with anxiety is a terrible idea and significantly worsens clinical, long-term anxiety and depression because of the effect it has on dopamine receptors.

Anyone who would recommend self-medication with weed for anxiety and depression is merrily waving that person off down a path of spiraling addictions.

I'm all for legalization in terms of further study for prescribed medical uses.

[Tom4784]

Deleted Post

[Beso]

It does not help with anxiety. It causes or worsens anxiety and depression. This has not only been widely studied, but the actual neuropsychological mechanism for WHY it causes or worsens anxiety and depression is well understood.

"Weed helps anxiety" is one of the most dangerous myths around. Sure it helps alleviate anxiety in the short term. So does alcohol. Drinking or smoking weed to help with anxiety is a terrible idea and significantly worsens clinical, long-term anxiety and depression because of the effect it has on dopamine receptors.

Anyone who would recommend self-medication with weed for anxiety and depression is merrily waving that person off down a path of spiraling addictions.

I'm all for legalization in terms of further study for prescribed medical uses.


Very true.

I get very anxious if I run dry.

[Redway]

Very true.

I get very anxious if I run dry.

Are you more of a kush or sativa guy?

[user104658]

Except in places where marijuana products are available for medical purposes, some people are prescribed such products for anxiety and the like

On prescription is a different thing though, prescribed meds are most often about harm reduction rather than proof that they're totally safe. Like I said, I'm all for medical legalisation. When it's for anxiety they'd probably be prescribed to people who are currently prescribed benzos, and would almost certainly be a far better choice, because long-term benzo use has serious health implications. It's possible that it would even be preferable to SSRI's because those have basically the exact same damaging neurological effect as THC does, except it's on serotonin neuroreceptors rather than dopamine receptors. So certainly scope for studying which one is "worse" and going with the one that causes least harm.

The important point though is that this would be prescribed medical use for harm reduction of a chronic anxiety disorder that needs some form of medication... at which point the question stops being "is it harmful" and becomes "which option is least harmful".

Completely different to people choosing off their own back to self-prescribe weed for anxiety (as people already do, obviously... lots of people smoke weed / drink alcohol / both to combat anxiety). That's almost certain to increase long-term symptoms. People think it makes them better because they feel better while they're doing it but that's a no-brainer, of course they feel better while they have an active buzz, that's completely different to something having a genuine therapeutic effect.

Basically, there's a good reason that you can't pop down to Tesco and grab a box of SSRI's or Benzodiazepines off the shelf next to the multivitamins.

[Beso]

Are you more of a kush or sativa guy?

I work hard all day so I like my sleep at night.:blush:

[Redway]

It does not help with anxiety. It causes or worsens anxiety and depression. This has not only been widely studied, but the actual neuropsychological mechanism for WHY it causes or worsens anxiety and depression is well understood.

"Weed helps anxiety" is one of the most dangerous myths around. Sure it helps alleviate anxiety in the short term. So does alcohol. Drinking or smoking weed to help with anxiety is a terrible idea and significantly worsens clinical, long-term anxiety and depression because of the effect it has on dopamine receptors.

Anyone who would recommend self-medication with weed for anxiety and depression is merrily waving that person off down a path of spiraling addictions.

I'm all for legalization in terms of further study for prescribed medical uses.

Nah. The only reason weed in its current form seems to trigger anxiety for some people is because of the influences of unchecked THC and not enough CBD (the true magic of cannabis) to mediate/temper out the effects of THC and that wouldn’t be an issue if weed was legalised. CBD is an anti-anxiety agent. An anti-psychotic agent. It has a metaphorical parallel with Xanax and setraline but it’s natural. It’s just that this current era doesn’t seem to have time for things that are natural because the pharmaceutical industry wants all the profit it can get.

And people are going to be there to abuse anything so you can bring up addiction as an anomaly whether you’re talking about weed, alcohol or doughnuts. People do medicate with CBD and they’re able to get relief for whatever they’re dealing with without all the attendant side-effects that come with pharmaceutical drugs.

You’re going to have to do a much better job if you want to make a tangible argument against the legalisation of cannabis. At the moment you’re just painting all stoners as overly self-indulgent people willing to spiral themselves down a rabbit hole akin to demoniac possession for the sake of a quick head-high or ill-advised self-treatment and there just isn’t any need.