Mens mental health.

[Beso]

Shall we discuss this?

[LaLaLand]

Sure. I’ve suffered for years and am always very vocal about it, needs to be done.

Always here if anyone wants to talk too!

[Crimson Dynamo]

its a no from me

[Beso]

It is a struggle Lalaland.

I'm at the stage where I need diagnosed with PTSD, but I am also the type of person who would just be happy and relieved to know that it is PTSD. Probably, (my assumed, to me depression) will stop me getting the tablets needed to aid my PTSD, due to the hassle of it all.

But I'm at an age where I reckon I can handle the fact that it's PTSD. So will just soldier on.

I do however realise that many men like me just cant talk to anyone about it (ive been lucky enough to have my mate michael, (an ex military guy, who suffers and is medicated for PTSD) popping in twice a week. Or my ex and her kid who I can chill out with at the weekends, but many men don't.

[Redway]

Honestly, most severe mental health conditions (schizophrenia, bipolar manic depression, etc.) are either (roughly) gender-equivalent or more common in men. Ditto for substance abuse, most personality disorders, OCD and neurodevelopmental conditions. These things are generally accepted.

As harsh as it sounds male ego needs to know its place. If certain blokes are too emotionally immature to open up about their common mental health experiences it’s on them more than anyone (I’m also coming at this topic from a cultural perspective so bear that in mind before you start coming for me).

[Redway]

I do sympathise with people without a solid support network or who can’t make the best utilisation of it for personal reasons (including you, parm.). I hope you’re able to get the help you need soon.

[Beso]

Honestly, most severe mental health conditions (schizophrenia, bipolar manic depression, etc.) are either (roughly) gender-equivalent or more common in men. Ditto for substance abuse, most personality disorders, OCD and neurodevelopmental conditions. These things are generally accepted.

As harsh as it sounds male ego needs to know its place. If certain blokes are too emotionally immature to open up about their common mental health experiences it’s on them more than anyone (I’m also coming at this topic from a cultural perspective so bear that in mind before you start coming for me).


That's a very harsh take on things (the last part) if you dont mind me saying.

Also, it's the stigma that stops men seeking help, and is the reason they turn to the only way they think is best for all. Suicide.

[Beso]

That's a very harsh take on things (the last part) if you dont mind me saying.

Also, it's the stigma that stops men seeking help, and is the reason they turn to the only way they think is best for all. Suicide.


Look at Robin williams, if he can, anyone can.

[Beso]

I do sympathise with people without a solid support network or who can’t make the best utilisation of it for personal reasons (including you, parm.). I hope you’re able to get the help you need soon.

Many people do have that network, but a vast majority of them push that network away or to the side because they feel it's a hassle for the network.

[Liam-]

Honestly, most severe mental health conditions (schizophrenia, bipolar manic depression, etc.) are either (roughly) gender-equivalent or more common in men. Ditto for substance abuse, most personality disorders, OCD and neurodevelopmental conditions. These things are generally accepted.

As harsh as it sounds male ego needs to know its place. If certain blokes are too emotionally immature to open up about their common mental health experiences it’s on them more than anyone (I’m also coming at this topic from a cultural perspective so bear that in mind before you start coming for me).

Just **** men and their issues right?

[Redway]

Just **** men and their issues right?

I’m a bloke myself so it’s not even that. Everyone has the right to access help when they need it.

But male ego in the contemporary sense is rooted in white male supremacy (and the racism thereof) so I’m obviously not here for that per se. That issue needs to be addressed as well. It’s not just about the illness. It’s also about toxic perceptions western society has made men internalise that needs to be dropped.

[Beso]

I’m a bloke myself so it’s not even that. Everyone has the right to access help when they need it.

But male ego in the contemporary sense is rooted in white male supremacy (and the racism thereof) so I’m obviously not here for that per se. That issue needs to be addressed as well. It’s not just about the illness. It’s also about toxic perceptions western society has made men internalise that needs to be dropped.

looking at it in cultural sense is separating the minds of men of different cultural backgrounds. We are all supposed to be the same!

Could you explain a bit about how your cultural background makes you take such a harsh and intolerable take on the overall problem of mens mental health.

It seems you dont see all men as equal when it comes to this subject, so can you explain a bit more please.

[Liam-]

I’m a bloke myself so it’s not even that. Everyone has the right to access help when they need it.

But male ego in the contemporary sense is rooted in white male supremacy (and the racism thereof) so I’m obviously not here for that per se. That issue needs to be addressed as well. It’s not just about the illness. It’s also about toxic perceptions western society has made men internalise that needs to be dropped.

Sorry, but if one of your first responses to the subject of men’s mental health is ‘their egos should know it’s place’ then you’re really part of the problem I’m afraid

[Strictly Jake]

Yeah it's definitely a topic that should always be discussed. I feel that a lot of men feel ashamed to talk about any feelings in general and including their mental health. In fact I'm now 31 and have struggled with mental problems since I was 16 but never felt comfortable to talk about it until it got to a severe point this year in which I was close to taking my own life and leaving behind my wife and kids who I love very much that's how bad it can affect people. So yes talking about it is really important and never be ashamed to be open about it

[Niamh.]

I think parents have a lot of responsibility here as well, if parents spoke openly and encouraged their sons to be more open to talk about their feelings and what's going on in their lives, it would be a good and really helpful way for them to carry that on as men in their later life

[Niamh.]

Yeah it's definitely a topic that should always be discussed. I feel that a lot of men feel ashamed to talk about any feelings in general and including their mental health. In fact I'm now 31 and have struggled with mental problems since I was 16 but never felt comfortable to talk about it until it got to a severe point this year in which I was close to taking my own life and leaving behind my wife and kids who I love very much that's how bad it can affect people. So yes talking about it is really important and never be ashamed to be open about itSo sorry to hear you went through that Jake, I hope you have people you feel comfortable talking to now? And if not in your life you know you can talk to us here [emoji173]

[Strictly Jake]

So sorry to hear you went through that Jake, I hope you have people you feel comfortable talking to now? And if not in your life you know you can talk to us here [emoji173]

Yeah once I reached out to my family and friends it was all so much better I got the help I needed and on pills that really help and I'm a much more positive and happy person now

It wasn't that long ago this all happened actually if you can recall I made a leaving thread and said I wasn't in a good place. I revealed more than I had to those closest to me as it felt safer as noone truly knows me on here and I got advice from a few members to talk to a GP and I did and it saved my life. So people may say this is a dead forum or whatever but it's important as you can share your feelings more easily sometimes

[Redway]

looking at it in cultural sense is separating the minds of men of different cultural backgrounds. We are all supposed to be the same!

Could you explain a bit about how your cultural background makes you take such a harsh and intolerable take on the overall problem of mens mental health.

It seems you dont see all men as equal when it comes to this subject, so can you explain a bit more please.

No-one’s exactly the same (there are too many people in the world for that to even vaguely hold true). Adopting such a pan-human approach is reductionist at best.

I’m not saying we can’t converge on plenty of common ground or that we’re not all at least fairly similar in certain fundamental ways but in other ways people diverge in a way that’s unique to their own experiences and cultural backgrounds.

There’s a lot to say for this line of discussion (naturally beyond the parameters of this thread) so I’m probably going to leave it here for now.

I’m not dismissing this thread as a whole, by the way. I actually do think it’s a good idea.

[Redway]

Sorry, but if one of your first responses to the subject of men’s mental health is ‘their egos should know it’s place’ then you’re really part of the problem I’m afraid

Lol. You don’t know the first thing about me and you don’t know where I’m coming from with my responses. Not being funny but you don’t get to tell me which problem-side I’m on. You don’t know me enough to make that call (if anything we’re actual virtual strangers).

[Niamh.]

Yeah once I reached out to my family and friends it was all so much better I got the help I needed and on pills that really help and I'm a much more positive and happy person now



It wasn't that long ago this all happened actually if you can recall I made a leaving thread and said I wasn't in a good place. I revealed more than I had to those closest to me as it felt safer as noone truly knows me on here and I got advice from a few members to talk to a GP and I did and it saved my life. So people may say this is a dead forum or whatever but it's important as you can share your feelings more easily sometimesThat's lovely to hear and I'm so glad you're feeling better [emoji173]

[rusticgal]

Yeah once I reached out to my family and friends it was all so much better I got the help I needed and on pills that really help and I'm a much more positive and happy person now

It wasn't that long ago this all happened actually if you can recall I made a leaving thread and said I wasn't in a good place. I revealed more than I had to those closest to me as it felt safer as noone truly knows me on here and I got advice from a few members to talk to a GP and I did and it saved my life. So people may say this is a dead forum or whatever but it's important as you can share your feelings more easily sometimes


It’s so good to talk…not everyone has someone to talk to. Even on here there are people that will listen.
So glad you got help and opened up…it’s not always an easy option.

[Cody92]

I struggle a lot with my mental health

Due to having dyspraxia which effects me in so many ways

I struggled with my mental health at times at uni Second year was when my mental health was just a nightmare where I considered suicide but luckily I’m still here today

[Beso]

No-one’s exactly the same (there are too many people in the world for that to even vaguely hold true). Adopting such a pan-human approach is reductionist at best.

I’m not saying we can’t converge on plenty of common ground or that we’re not all at least fairly similar in certain fundamental ways but in other ways people diverge in a way that’s unique to their own experiences and cultural backgrounds.

There’s a lot to say for this line of discussion (naturally beyond the parameters of this thread) so I’m probably going to leave it here for now.

I’m not dismissing this thread as a whole, by the way. I actually do think it’s a good idea.



I was more hoping for an explanation on why your cultural background makes you call someone weak for not opening up about things!

[Toy Soldier]

The absolute #1 problem for men's mental health is toxic patriarchy; other men making men feel weak/pathetic/embarrassed if they admit to anything other than stoicism. It's something that's improving but there's generations upon generations of damage done by the "men don't get emotional" concept. Sadly, it's an idea that women can latch onto as well, it's so deep rooted ... most people will say that they're fine with everyone sharing their emotions but in reality, it's often seen as unattractive in men. I know that sounds a bit MRA but it is actually the case. Certainly far from everyone thinks this way and there are huge variations across social groups and across cultures. But yeah, the idea that "men are tough and solid" is, ironically, the root of mental health issues in men and the reason that suicides are higher. It's not that more men than women are suicidal... it's that they feel too embarrassed to confide in anyone or seek help and just end up doing it.

[Niamh.]

The absolute #1 problem for men's mental health is toxic patriarchy; other men making men feel weak/pathetic/embarrassed if they admit to anything other than stoicism. It's something that's improving but there's generations upon generations of damage done by the "men don't get emotional" concept. Sadly, it's an idea that women can latch onto as well, it's so deep rooted ... most people will say that they're fine with everyone sharing their emotions but in reality, it's often seen as unattractive in men. I know that sounds a bit MRA but it is actually the case. Certainly far from everyone thinks this way and there are huge variations across social groups and across cultures. But yeah, the idea that "men are tough and solid" is, ironically, the root of mental health issues in men and the reason that suicides are higher. It's not that more men than women are suicidal... it's that they feel too embarrassed to confide in anyone or seek help and just end up doing it.

It doesn't at all, it's the truth

[Redway]

The absolute #1 problem for men's mental health is toxic patriarchy; other men making men feel weak/pathetic/embarrassed if they admit to anything other than stoicism. It's something that's improving but there's generations upon generations of damage done by the "men don't get emotional" concept. Sadly, it's an idea that women can latch onto as well, it's so deep rooted ... most people will say that they're fine with everyone sharing their emotions but in reality, it's often seen as unattractive in men. I know that sounds a bit MRA but it is actually the case. Certainly far from everyone thinks this way and there are huge variations across social groups and across cultures. But yeah, the idea that "men are tough and solid" is, ironically, the root of mental health issues in men and the reason that suicides are higher. It's not that more men than women are suicidal... it's that they feel too embarrassed to confide in anyone or seek help and just end up doing it.

I’m going to reply this properly a bit later on but you’ve hit the nail on the head. What I was also saying was that toxic patriarchy also has elements of white male supremacy and overall misogyny engendered in it (something that pisses me off a lot) but that’s a discussion for another day.

But having said that I feel like we need to clarify between mental health issues regarded as common and severe alike. The likes of schizophrenia (to name an example) are more associated than males than females. No one would make reference to such a condition in a gendered way or question a man’s strength. Ditto for bipolar disorder (at least the type marked by strong manic episodes) and similar conditions. I feel like men’s mental health is only a taboo when the issue of ‘common’ mental health issues [from phobias to (mild-ish) depression] is considered. (Emphasis on the mild because depression can be very severe.)

I just feel like the further up the mental ill-health spectrum you go, the less it is about opening up about feelings and the more it’s associated with the likes of psychosis and violence. Those are things that are generally associated with men more than women. “Anxiety and mild depression” aren’t the cornerstone of the mental illness experience. That’s just the common stuff that women seem to find it easier to open up about.

[Toy Soldier]

There's definitely a strong distinction between "poor mental health" and actual clinical/neurological conditions. Poor mental health is what I would call things like depression and anxiety, though I don't think the distinction is "seriousness", depression and anxiety can be extremely serious and debilitating all the way up to and including suicide. Likewise, neurological mental health problems can obviously range from extreme (permanent inpatient territory) right down to very manageable (usually with medication).

Also to complicate things further there's plenty of crossover; pathological mental health problems can create large amounts of depression and anxiety for obvious reasons, and behavioural depression and anxiety can in extreme cases lead to actual psychosis etc.

Really there's a never-ending push and pull in mental health services between psychiatrists (generally medical approach) and psychologists (generally behavioural approach) and the debate about which is best (or which combination of the two) is constant.

From what I know there's actually not a huge difference between the incidence of general psychosis between men and women. Schizophrenia specifically though is something like 70% male. I wonder though if some of the difference is down to different manifestation and the diagnostic criteria. You're right that really across all medicine there's what's termed the "white male default" ... which basically means that a lot of diagnostic criteria is based on "what that thing looks like in the average white bloke". My daughter for example is Autistic but we were very lucky to have a good paediatrician with a holistic approach, because she doesn't fit the "diagnostic criteria" in MANY ways, and that's true for a lot of her female classmates in special education. The "outline of what autism with learning disability looks like" is based on a) boys and yes b) white boys. Sadly that also means a lot of the "standard" education in LD services is geared towards that and significant adjustment is needed to fit anyone else. I think that probably applies all across clinical mental health so it's worth considering if it's really "more men are afflicted with X" and not simply "more men are diagnosed with X".

[Redway]

There's definitely a strong distinction between "poor mental health" and actual clinical/neurological conditions. Poor mental health is what I would call things like depression and anxiety, though I don't think the distinction is "seriousness", depression and anxiety can be extremely serious and debilitating all the way up to and including suicide. Likewise, neurological mental health problems can obviously range from extreme (permanent inpatient territory) right down to very manageable (usually with medication).

Also to complicate things further there's plenty of crossover; pathological mental health problems can create large amounts of depression and anxiety for obvious reasons, and behavioural depression and anxiety can in extreme cases lead to actual psychosis etc.

Really there's a never-ending push and pull in mental health services between psychiatrists (generally medical approach) and psychologists (generally behavioural approach) and the debate about which is best (or which combination of the two) is constant.

From what I know there's actually not a huge difference between the incidence of general psychosis between men and women. Schizophrenia specifically though is something like 70% male. I wonder though if some of the difference is down to different manifestation and the diagnostic criteria. You're right that really across all medicine there's what's termed the "white male default" ... which basically means that a lot of diagnostic criteria is based on "what that thing looks like in the average white bloke". My daughter for example is Autistic but we were very lucky to have a good paediatrician with a holistic approach, because she doesn't fit the "diagnostic criteria" in MANY ways, and that's true for a lot of her female classmates in special education. The "outline of what autism with learning disability looks like" is based on a) boys and yes b) white boys. Sadly that also means a lot of the "standard" education in LD services is geared towards that and significant adjustment is needed to fit anyone else. I think that probably applies all across clinical mental health so it's worth considering if it's really "more men are afflicted with X" and not simply "more men are diagnosed with X".

I already said depression can be extremely deep. That’s why I only talked about mild depression specifically when I mentioned depression. I did say that.

The severer endogenous forms of depression (I like to dub them as melancholia) are up there with other severe mental conditions. The only mild thing about depression is mild depression itself.

[Redway]

Whereabouts do you think your daughter would be on the ASD spectrum if it wasn’t for her learning difficulties, by the way?

[Toy Soldier]

Whereabouts do you think your daughter would be on the ASD spectrum if it wasn’t for her learning difficulties, by the way?


It’s very difficult to say because her main learning disability is verbal language, which makes it hard to know what else is inherent, and what is just down to the communication difficulty. She can have sensory and OCD issues but generally only when stressed. She doesn’t seem to have much of any intellectual disability (in terms of “mental age” etc.) as she has always had age-appropriate drawing skills, problem solving skills, personal interests etc. but again very difficult to assess because of her language issues.

[Cherie]

It’s very difficult to say because her main learning disability is verbal language, which makes it hard to know what else is inherent, and what is just down to the communication difficulty. She can have sensory and OCD issues but generally only when stressed. She doesn’t seem to have much of any intellectual disability (in terms of “mental age” etc.) as she has always had age-appropriate drawing skills, problem solving skills, personal interests etc. but again very difficult to assess because of her language issues.

Do you use Makaton to communicate?