Get your jab or lose your job.

[Beso]

About time they did this for care homes.

[michael21]

Yes

[arista]

Yes and Today they announce
all NHS Frontline workers
must get the jab
by Spring next year.

OK Alf.

[bots]

thursday is the deadline for care home workers to be vaccinated, so it is being done

[Cherie]

I hope Alf doesn't work in a care home :worry:

[arista]

Health Secretary is Live In Parliament (all 3 News Channels)
talking about
all NHS Staff must now get the jab.




Alf
you are wrong with your anti vax jive

All must get the Jab
or get sacked

[Alf]

Health Secretary is Live In Parliament (all 3 News Channels)
talking about
all NHS Staff must now get the jab.




Alf
you are wrong

All must get the Jab
or get sackedSo it's medical tyranny, what exactly am I wrong about then?

Let those people in care homes who need care, care for themselves then if it makes you happy.

Those care home workers will just find another job that doesn't require Dr Mengle's medicine. It's only the people in need of care that lose.

[arista]

Labour Health Secretary
asks him to meet with Union.

[arista]

So it's medical tyranny, what exactly am I wrong about then?

Let those people in care homes who need care, care for themselves then if it makes you happy.

Those care home workers will just find another job that doesn't require Dr Mengle's medicine.



No they have until 2022 Spring.

You Alf
are backing Crazy Folk.
Be Fair.

[Alf]

No they have until 2022 Spring.

You Alf
are backing Crazy Folk.
Be Fair.I'm backing my fellow freedom loving citizens, you're backing tyrants.

[arista]

I'm backing my fellow freedom loving citizens, you're backing tyrants.


No More have the Vaccine in the UK now,
than do not.


Alf, do you really like being the under class?

[michael21]

No More have the Vaccine in the UK now,
than do not.


Alf, do you really like being the under class?

You are wrong Alf is right that the way it has to be :cheer2:

[arista]

Alf
Anti Vax girlfriend
of Top actor is Dumped
down under.



[EXCLUSIVE: It's over! Simon Baker, 52, SPLITS
from his activewear designer girlfriend
Laura May Gibbs, 36 - as she attends
anti-vaccine mandate protest
A spokesperson for The Mentalist actor, 52,
confirmed the news, telling Daily Mail Australia
that he and Laura, 36, quietly parted ways
several months ago
Simon and Laura first sparked romance
rumours in February after they were
pictured frolicking in the surf together in Byron Bay
News of the couple's relationship came
weeks after Simon announced his split
from wife Rebecca Rigg on January 29
Simon met Rebecca in the
early '90s and they married in 1998 after five years
of living together.
They share three children, Stella, 27, Claude, 22, and Harry, 19
On Sunday Laura attended a rally
at the NSW-Queensland border protesting vaccine mandates]

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2021/11/09/00/50232257-10179905-It_s_over_Simon_Baker_53_has_split_from_his_active wear_designer_-m-32_1636418387774.jpg


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-10179905/Simon-Baker-SPLITS-activewear-designer-girlfriend-Laura-Gibbs.html

[michael21]

Yes and Today they announce
all NHS workers
must get the jab
by Spring next year.

OK Alf.

No you are wrong it's full time saff only from sky news website no less

Fake news from the green man

[Alf]

As my fellow Hull lass, Dewbs says "I think it's appalling" also Yellow hair says it well. You selfish lot chomping on your Deliveroo's while these care workers went out to work and now you want to fire them, disgraceful behaviour. You should be ashamed of yourselves.


1457792486936621059

[arista]

Yes Alf
Great News Channel.

Michelle Dewberry Fully Jabbed
bless her.

[Crimson Dynamo]

After the NHS it will be all customer-facing workers in retail and hospitality

[bots]

insurance companies will be adding vaccinated to their terms so that employers don't have any option but to make it mandatory

[Kazanne]

Isn't nursing and caring a vocation aswell as a job ? so imo, if you care for people you should have that jab to protect the vunerable after all we know thousands have died through Covid , how many have died from having the jab ? It just seems wrong not to want it.

[Alf]

Yesterday, today and tomorrow it's OK for them to go to work, but Thursday is somehow different.

[Alf]

insurance companies will be adding vaccinated to their terms so that employers don't have any option but to make it mandatoryWhat will happen when the homeless and starvation pandemic happens?

[bots]

Yesterday, today and tomorrow it's OK for them to go to work, but Thursday is somehow different.

they have been given months to get vaccinated. Thursday is the day the law comes into effect so, of course today and tomorrow are different to thursday, in exactly the same way as it works for any other law

[Crimson Dynamo]

I mean i could not go to the football unless i am double jagged so its started already

[Beso]

I mean i could not go to the football unless i am double jagged so its started already

Have you ever had to prove it LT.

When I was at the brighton newcastle game at the weekend nobody from the north east was being checked, unless the sniffer dogs can tell if you ain't?

[Crimson Dynamo]

Have you ever had to prove it LT.

When I was at the brighton newcastle game at the weekend nobody from the north east was being checked, unless the sniffer dogs can tell if you ain't?

Yes i have to show them my double jag confirmation letter before I show my ticket. The smallest boy does not as he is too young

[Beso]

Yes i have to show them my double jag confirmation letter before I show my ticket. The smallest boy does not as he is too young

That must take an age to get everyone in.

[Crimson Dynamo]

That must take an age to get everyone in.

We go in a side door so dont use turnstyles but lots have the app on their phone and just scan the barcode thing at the new machines

[Cherie]

Have you ever had to prove it LT.

When I was at the brighton newcastle game at the weekend nobody from the north east was being checked, unless the sniffer dogs can tell if you ain't?

It's not required in England, its a Scottish rule so far

[Alf]

1457662143499735042

[Alf]

0jxlQZdvA88

[Alf]

1458003474638061570

[Crimson Dynamo]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">When is it enough? <a href="https://t.co/NkKG04ltyf">pic.twitter.com/NkKG04ltyf</a></p>&mdash; Grace-Anne kelly (@GraceAnne_kelly) <a href="https://twitter.com/GraceAnne_kelly/status/1458056213841817602?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 9, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Crimson Dynamo]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Now understand why you shouldn’t trust the mainstream media ? <a href="https://t.co/J0vd6dMV59">https://t.co/J0vd6dMV59</a></p>&mdash; Matt Le Tissier🌸 (@mattletiss7) <a href="https://twitter.com/mattletiss7/status/1457781134436143113?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 8, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Beso]

I will stop taking my jabs when you have to pay for them..until then im gonna grab everything I can get.

[bots]

in a year or so it will be like taking a panadol, i don't think vaccination has a long term future

[Alf]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">When is it enough? <a href="https://t.co/NkKG04ltyf">pic.twitter.com/NkKG04ltyf</a></p>&mdash; Grace-Anne kelly (@GraceAnne_kelly) <a href="https://twitter.com/GraceAnne_kelly/status/1458056213841817602?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 9, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>When it's too late is when it will be enough for the fearful. They're too far gone, they believe government have authority over them and they have to do as they're told by people they don:t even know. Brainwashed.

[Beso]

I've chosen to take the vaccine, nobody forced me.

[Alf]

I've chosen to take the vaccine, nobody forced me.Exactly how it should be.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I've chosen to take the vaccine, nobody forced me.

that is like buying Heinz soup and saying the same thing

:laugh:

[joeysteele]

Isn't nursing and caring a vocation aswell as a job ? so imo, if you care for people you should have that jab to protect the vunerable after all we know thousands have died through Covid , how many have died from having the jab ? It just seems wrong not to want it.

I agree Kazanne

There was rightly a lot of criticism to the government for not protecting residents and staff of care homes last year.
The same re Hospitals.

Now the vaccines are available, Care staff and Hospital staff should have that fullest protection for themselves and those in their care.

I agree as you say, it just seems wrong not to want that protection of the vaccinations.

[Crimson Dynamo]

all care home residents will be double jagged and have had boosters already

[rusticgal]

It’s a tough one….it seems wrong that people who feel pressured into getting the jab so they either keep their job or be able to visit loved ones in homes etc….it’s forcing them to do something they don’t want to do or feel comfortable with.
On the other hand most of us feel we will do anything to help stop the spread of this awful virus…but we really don’t know the long term effects…short term yes…but long term no…

[rusticgal]

I've chosen to take the vaccine, nobody forced me.


Me too…but it’s got to a point that those that don’t want to have to in order to keep their jobs or not see loved ones in homes :shrug:

[bots]

we have to remember the outcry there was over the deaths in care homes at the start of the pandemic. If the government didn't make it mandatory for nhs and care home staff, there would be a huge backlash

[Toy Soldier]

This is not about “forcing people to have it”, they don’t “have” to have it but they do have to have it to work with vulnerable people. Things like this are not a strange or “new” requirement. For example you also need a Enhanced Disclosure document (to prove you’re not dodgy) to work with vulnerable people. No one is being “forced to give over an enhanced disclosure about themself” - but they do have to do it to work with vulnerable people.

They are free to not work with vulnerable people.

It is not “force”.

That simple.

If it was becoming a requirement to work in any random job then yes I can appreciate that’s a step too far, but healthcare? If you don’t believe in medical science you have no place in healthcare anyway.

[bots]

yes, thats a very good point. Think even about things like to be a life guard you need to be able to swim to a certain standard, to work as a paramedic you need to have medical qualifications. There are a huge number of jobs where there are already mandatory requirements. It's not unique at all

[Alf]

This is not about “forcing people to have it”, they don’t “have” to have it but they do have to have it to work with vulnerable people. Things like this are not a strange or “new” requirement. For example you also need a Enhanced Disclosure document (to prove you’re not dodgy) to work with vulnerable people. No one is being “forced to give over an enhanced disclosure about themself” - but they do have to do it to work with vulnerable people.

They are free to not work with vulnerable people.

It is not “force”.

That simple.

If it was becoming a requirement to work in any random job then yes I can appreciate that’s a step too far, but healthcare? If you don’t believe in medical science you have no place in healthcare anyway.Rubbish, the hospital staff have until April, which suggests they're safe enough to work for another 5 months. If they were a danger they would be let go with immediate effect. I hope they all strike for the Winter until these authoritarian mandates are scrapped. Then we'll see a pandemic.

Canada have already backed down from their mandates.

[AnnieK]

I can't fathom why they would NOT want a jab. There is now enough statistical information to prove that jabs lower your risk of serious illness....dealing with sick people I would like all the protection I could. Like construction workers are not allowed on site without a hard hat, steel toe caps and high vis....

[Alf]

I can't fathom why they would NOT want a jab. There is now enough statistical information to prove that jabs lower your risk of serious illness....dealing with sick people I would like all the protection I could. Like construction workers are not allowed on site without a hard hat, steel toe caps and high vis....It's simple, they don't believe what they're being told.

Can you fathom how the German people followed Hitler in the 1930s and into the 1940s? Can you fathom how they executed Jews without a second thought? It was through fear propaganda, similar to this.

[Alf]

They've divided us and now they're going in for the conquer.

[Toy Soldier]

Rubbish, the hospital staff have until April, which suggests they're safe enough to work for another 5 months. If they were a danger they would be let go with immediate effect. I hope they all strike for the Winter until these authoritarian mandates are scrapped. Then we'll see a pandemic.

Canada have already backed down from their mandates.


I didn’t say anything about how safe it is or isn’t, I said having a vaccine mandate to work with vulnerable people does not constitute an encroachment on individual freedoms. It’s a job requirement. Think of it like a qualification, I suppose. It’s like 3-C’s-at-GCSE Jimmy being told he can’t have a job as a research academic because he doesn’t have a degree and him saying “waaah but I want to be a research academic, why are you stealing muh freedoms”. Or a man with no arms being told he unfortunately can’t be a firefighter, and screaming “discrimination!”.

It’s not a freedoms issue. It’s a job requirement. If you can’t or don’t want to meet the job requirements, find another job.

That said it’s all probably an empty threat anyway - there’s already a dire shortage of healthcare staff, they can’t afford to fire too many. They might just make a few highly publicised examples and hope that it’s enough to convince the others.

[Alf]

I can't fathom why they would NOT want a jab. There is now enough statistical information to prove that jabs lower your risk of serious illness....dealing with sick people I would like all the protection I could. Like construction workers are not allowed on site without a hard hat, steel toe caps and high vis....The difference is, people see the benefits in wearing steel toe caps and Hard hats, they agree with that, and they're not injecting something into their bodies, but many, many people don't see this as logical.

[AnnieK]

It's simple, they don't believe what they're being told.

Can you fathom how the German people followed Hitler in the 1930s and into the 1940s? Can you fathom how they executed Jews without a second thought? It was through fear propaganda, similar to this.

I'm sure a construction worker doesn't think a piece of plastic on his will stop an iron girder killing him if it fell from a crane....but he still HAS to wear a hard hat on site.

[Alf]

I didn’t say anything about how safe it is or isn’t, I said having a vaccine mandate to work with vulnerable people does not constitute an encroachment on individual freedoms. It’s a job requirement. Think of it like a qualification, I suppose. It’s like 3-C’s-at-GCSE Jimmy being told he can’t have a job as a research academic because he doesn’t have a degree and him saying “waaah but I want to be a research academic, why are you stealing muh freedoms”. Or a man with no arms being told he unfortunately can’t be a firefighter, and screaming “discrimination!”.

It’s not a freedoms issue. It’s a job requirement. If you can’t or don’t want to meet the job requirements, find another job.

That said it’s all probably an empty threat anyway - there’s already a dire shortage of healthcare staff, they can’t afford to fire too many. They might just make a few highly publicised examples and hope that it’s enough to convince the others.Does Jimmy have to inject something into his body?

Would you inject heroin into you if it was mandated to keep your job, or would you be angry that you had to do that, and feel you're being oppressed?

[Toy Soldier]

Would you inject heroin into you if it was mandated to keep your job, or would you be angry that you had to do that, and feel you're being oppressed?

The fact that you’re equating a vaccine to heroin honestly is just a ludicrous example of why this isn’t a real debate of any kind. I largely agree that medical procedures shouldn’t be mandatory but this is just over-the-top nonsense. “And what if your employer said you had to shoot someone in the face - would you do that???”. Soldiers (real ones, not the friendlier, more handsome Toy versions) have to do that. So I choose not to become a soldier. I don’t say “uhh but actually I still want to be a soldier I can’t believe you won’t let me be a soldier who doesn’t shoot anyone!”

In fact you can use an example I’ve already used. Running into a burning building is literally a million times more risky than taking a vaccine. Would I run into a burning building if my boss told me to? No ****ing chance. Guess who does that. Firefighters. People who don’t want to run into burning buildings don’t get to be firefighters. People who don’t want to vaccinate against illnesses that could kill their patients don’t get to work in healthcare. This is not a complicated issue.

[Alf]

The people all over the World are protesting on mass against this and they're being ignored by the media, they're not protesting against hard hats, steel toe caps and GCSE's

Do the people rule or does the government and media rule?

[Alf]

The fact that you’re equating a vaccine to heroin honestly is just a ludicrous example of why this isn’t a real debate of any kind. I largely agree that medical procedures shouldn’t be mandatory but this is just over-the-top nonsense. “And what if your employer said you had to shoot someone in the face - would you do that???”. Soldiers (real ones, not the friendlier, more handsome Toy versions) have to do that. So I choose not to become a soldier. I don’t say “uhh but actually I still want to be a soldier I can’t believe you won’t let me be a soldier who doesn’t shoot anyone!”

In fact you can use an example I’ve already used. Running into a burning building is literally a million times more risky than taking a vaccine. Would I run into a burning building if my boss told me to? No ****ing chance. Guess who does that. Firefighters. People who don’t want to run into burning buildings don’t get to be firefighters. People who don’t want to vaccinate against illnesses that could kill their patients don’t get to work in healthcare. This is not a complicated issue.I'm equating heroin and the vaccine because you're equating an injection into your body with PPE and GCSE's, two can play at that game.

[Toy Soldier]

The people all over the World are protesting on mass against this and they're being ignored by the media, they're not protesting against hard hats, steel toe caps and GCSE's

Do the people rule or does the government and media rule?


The government’s mandate in a democracy is to cater to the majority not to pander to a vocal minority. Try this argument again when more than 50% of the population is anti vaccination - not 5%. They are not protesting “on mass”. They are protesting in small, loud, uninformed pockets.

[Toy Soldier]

I'm equating heroin and the vaccine because you're equating an injection into your body with PPE and GCSE's, two can play at that fame.


We’ll go with my firefighter example then and I’ll let you argue that taking a vaccine is more dangerous than entering burning buildings.

[Alf]

The government’s mandate in a democracy is to cater to the majority not to pander to a vocal minority. Try this argument again when more than 50% of the population is anti vaccination - not 5%. They are not protesting “on mass”. They are protesting in small, loud, uninformed pockets.I don't believe you're in the majority. Have you asked all the people that haven't even given an opinion?

Let's have a referendum on the mandates and find out. If at least 60,000 people who work in medical jobs are saying no, when you'd think they're all about health, then imagine what the rest of the 1000s of industries would add up to. You could never know because they arne't given a voice, so obviously you believe you're in the majority.

[Toy Soldier]

I don't believe you're in the majority. Have you asked all the people that haven't even given an opinion?

Let's have a referendum on the mandates and find out. If at least 60,000 people who work in medical jobs are saying no, when you'd think they're all about health, that imagine what the rest of the 1000s of industries would add up to. You could never know because they arne't given a voice, so obviously you believe you're in the majority.


I’ve already said I don’t agree with mandatory vaccine for non-healthcare employment so that’s not relevant? The only relevant question is whether or not healthcare staff, specifically, should have vaccines as a job requirement.

Again though I don’t think it’s even about majority pleb opinion. If you can’t give me a convincing argument for why people who don’t want to enter burning buildings should still be allowed to be firefighters, then you can’t give me a convincing argument for why people who don’t want to be vaccinated should still be allowed to work in care settings with vulnerable people.

[Alf]

I’ve already said I don’t agree with mandatory vaccine for non-healthcare employment so that’s not relevant? The only relevant question is whether or not healthcare staff, specifically, should have vaccines as a job requirement.

Again though I don’t think it’s even about majority pleb opinion. If you can’t give me a convincing argument for why people who don’t want to enter burning buildings should still be allowed to be firefighters, then you can’t give me a convincing argument for why people who don’t want to be vaccinated should still be allowed to work in care settings with vulnerable people.I don't really get your question, but I'll try and answer from how I think what you're saying.

Firefighters who don't want to enter burning buildings can tackle fires from the outside while the ones who will enter buildings go in. They could drive the truck, do investigations, and there will be other jobs that are required in the fire department that don't require they enter a building.

[Toy Soldier]

Firefighters who don't want to enter burning buildings can tackle fires from the outside while the ones who will enter buildings go in. They could drive the truck, do investigations, and there will be other jobs that are required in the fire department that don't require they enter a building.

I honestly didn’t think you’d actually try to argue that people who don’t want to fight fires should be allowed to be firefighters but it’s bizarre enough for me to have had enough of this conversation, sorry :joker:.

[Toy Soldier]

Just to be clear Alf, if a firefighter said they no longer wanted to tackle fires they’d be told to take a hike. They wouldn’t be given a desk job.

[Alf]

I honestly didn’t think you’d actually try to argue that people who don’t want to fight fires should be allowed to be firefighters but it’s bizarre enough for me to have had enough of this conversation, sorry :joker:.Well obviously I don't get what your question is that you're asking.

[joeysteele]

It's sad to think good care staff will be lost.
I don't understand why now, after all the time that's passed from the first vaccine, then the second and now to the booster.
Why those who can have it won't.

It's been stated by all the science and health advice, the strength of the protection gets less over time of the first vaccinations.
Hence the need for this booster.

On a personal level, I'm sorry but my Mum is not too well now, she has had all her vaccinations so she's protected more from covid.
I would not want, or let anyone near my Mum who wasn't vaccinated.

So overall I support the position of the vaccine is there, so it is a requirement for working in the care and hospital sectors.

I can accept some may not want anything injected into their bodies, they're unsure about.
Very sadly, that will mean then unless the government changes its mind.
They'll need to find another job.
It's a desperately sad situation however for me and mine, no one unvaccinated would I want around my Mum and in fact family.

[Alf]

Just to be clear Alf, if a firefighter said they no longer wanted to tackle fires they’d be told to take a hike. They wouldn’t be given a desk job.OK, I get it.

My answer again would be the same as the PPE.

Are they being made to inject something into their bodies to keep their jobs when they sign up? They know the dangers of the job when they sign up to being a firefighter, so unless when they signed up they were told that you must inject something into your body, then it's the same as the PPE argument.

[Toy Soldier]

Well obviously I don't get what your question is that you're asking.


Tackling fires is extremely risky.

Taking a vaccine is not very risky.

Firefighters have to be willing to tackle fires to be firefighters, or they are putting the public in danger.

Healthcare workers have to be willing to have certain vaccinations, or they are putting the public in danger.

People who don’t want to tackle fires because they’re worried about the danger should (obviously, I would have thought) choose a non-firefighting career.

People who don’t want to have a vaccine because they’re worried about the danger should choose a non-healthcare career.

Neither are being forced to do anything. No one is being forced into burning buildings. No one is being forced to take the vaccine.

[Alf]

It's sad to think good care staff will be lost.
I don't understand why now, after all the time that's passed from the first vaccine, then the second and now to the booster.
Why those who can have it won't.

It's been stated by all the science and health advice, the strength of the protection gets less over time of the first vaccinations.
Hence the need for this booster.

On a personal level, I'm sorry but my Mum is not too well now, she has had all her vaccinations so she's protected more from covid.
I would not want, or let anyone near my Mum who wasn't vaccinated.

So overall I support the position of the vaccine is there, so it is a requirement for working in the care and hospital sectors.

I can accept some may not want anything injected into their bodies, they're unsure about.
Very sadly, that will mean then unless the government changes its mind.
They'll need to find another job.
It's a desperately sad situation however for me and mine, no one unvaccinated would I want around my Mum and in fact family.But what you're saying is that even though your mum is fully vaccinated, you don't trust that the vaccines protect her, so you have no faith in the vaccines. These people also have no faith in the vaccines, and they believe it's more risky to take one then to not take one.

Hope your mum gets well soon.

[Toy Soldier]

OK, I get it.

My answer again would be the same as the PPE.

Are the being made to inject something into their bodies to keep their jobs? They know the dangers of the job when they sign up to being a firefighter, so unless when they signed up they were told that you must inject something into your body, then it's the same as the PPE argument.


You’re hyperfocussed on the “inject something into their bodies” aspect. This is an irrational fear and it’s objectively far (far) less risky than entering a burins building, or a huge number of other examples of job requirements.

You may have a point in terms of contracts - it may not be legal to fire someone for not having the vaccine if they were hired pre-mandate. However, there’s nothing stopping them adding a clause on new contracts. And fire-and-rehire is a time tested method of forcing employees to accept updated contract terms in this country. Unfortunately.

A really delicious irony is that EU employment law would have made it harder for them to fire people. Oh well.

[Alf]

For the record, all of my family are vaccinated. I'm not anti-vax, I'm just pro free choice on something like this.

[Toy Soldier]

But what you're saying is that even though your mum is fully vaccinated, you don't trust that the vaccines protect her, so you have no faith in the vaccines.


This is incorrect logic; everyone knows (it is in fact proven) that none of the vaccines are 100% guaranteed to stop illness or death and so no one can be considered 100% protected. That is in no way the same as having “no faith” in vaccines.

To use allegory again; if you strap on a parachute and jump out of a plane, do you believe there is NO chance of injury or death? That parachutes are 100% effective 100% of the time? Of course not, everyone realises there are still risks in skydiving. Does that mean those people have “no faith in parachutes”? Does it mean they should jump out of the plane without one, declaring that it makes no difference?

[Alf]

This is incorrect logic; everyone knows (it is in fact proven) that none of the vaccines are 100% guaranteed to stop illness or death and so no one can be considered 100% protected. That is in no way the same as having “no faith” in vaccines.

To use allegory again; if you strap on a parachute and jump out of a plane, do you believe there is NO chance of injury or death? That parachutes are 100% effective 100% of the time? Of course not, everyone realises there are still risks in skydiving. Does that mean those people have “no faith in parachutes”? Does it mean they should jump out of the plane without one, declaring that it makes no difference?I would never do a parachute jump unless there was no other choice, I've never even been on a plane in my life. The no other choice would be if I was on a plane and it was gonna crash, then I'd take the chance. Parachute jumps and sky diving are free choices.

[Toy Soldier]

For the record, all of my family are vaccinated. I'm not anti-vax, I'm just pro free choice on something like this.


I’m 100% against actual mandatory medical procedures and always will be, I would never support enforced vaccination of the whole population.

I just disagree that it being made a job requirement in a specific industry like healthcare is a removal of freedoms any more than any other job requirement. If someone doesn’t like the job requirements of a job (any job) they have the freedom to say “not for me, sorry” and find other employment. Trying to describe it as “being forced” is too problematic because all sorts of jobs have all sorts of requirements… the idea that “anyone should be able to have any job they want with no prerequisites” just isn’t feasible.

Legally (and practically) I think it’s probably not possible to fire all of the healthcare workers who refuse.

Morally I think that people who are in healthcare (or at the very least, working with the elderly) should either get vaccinated or voluntarily step away. The risk to the over-80’s with Covid is genuinely massive. It’s completely different to pretty much any other scenario.

[Toy Soldier]

I would never do a parachute jump unless there was no other choice, I've never even been on a plane in my life. The no other choice would be if I was on a plane and it was gonna crash, then I'd take the chance.


So you accept that you’re more likely to survive if you use a parachute than if you don’t, whilst agreeing that parachuting still has risks… or in other words, accepting that something isn’t a guarantee doesn’t mean you have “no faith” in that thing.

[Alf]

I’m 100% against actual mandatory medical procedures and always will be, I would never support enforced vaccination of the whole population.

I just disagree that it being made a job requirement in a specific industry like healthcare is a removal of freedoms any more than any other job requirement. If someone doesn’t like the job requirements of a job (any job) they have the freedom to say “not for me, sorry” and find other employment. Trying to describe it as “being forced” is too problematic because all sorts of jobs have all sorts of requirements… the idea that “anyone should be able to have any job they want with no prerequisites” just isn’t feasible.

Legally (and practically) I think it’s probably not possible to fire all of the healthcare workers who refuse.

Morally I think that people who are in healthcare (or at the very least, working with the elderly) should either get vaccinated or voluntarily step away. The risk to the over-80’s with Covid is genuinely massive. It’s completely different to pretty much any other scenario.I think that sacking the unvaccinated medical staff would do far more damage to the elderly, because there would be far less people caring for them. And the conspiracy theorist in me says that's what they want.

[joeysteele]

But what you're saying is that even though your mum is fully vaccinated, you don't trust that the vaccines protect her, so you have no faith in the vaccines. These people also have no faith in the vaccines, and they believe it's more risky to take one then to not take one.

Hope your mum gets well soon.

Thank you Alf.

Yes I get that, no one has said however the vaccines stop you getting it.
The vaccines should stop you getting seriously ill and therefore preventing unnecessary death and even hospitalisation.

However you can still get it.
Plus you're more likely to get it from someone unvaccinated probably.

So in a care or hospital setting, it can't be risked anyone not vaccinated putting those with other conditions adding covid to the pot too.

Same with my home situation at present.
I personally don't want anyone in my home and especially to have anything to do with my Mum's health, who hasn't had the available vaccinations.

As I said earlier I was screaming at the government for failing to protect those in care homes and hospitals as to not making sure residents and patients were protected with the maximum protection.
Equally so all the staff protected to the maximum too.

Now they are trying to ensure that, I can only support the harder stance they are taking on the vaccine.

[Beso]

Tackling fires is extremely risky.

Taking a vaccine is not very risky.

Firefighters have to be willing to tackle fires to be firefighters, or they are putting the public in danger.

Healthcare workers have to be willing to have certain vaccinations, or they are putting the public in danger.

People who don’t want to tackle fires because they’re worried about the danger should (obviously, I would have thought) choose a non-firefighting career.

People who don’t want to have a vaccine because they’re worried about the danger should choose a non-healthcare career.

Neither are being forced to do anything. No one is being forced into burning buildings. No one is being forced to take the vaccine.



Have more people been killed fighting fires this year or from taking the vaccine?

[Beso]

2 people in my office have caught covid since being double vaxed..both have been off for more than 2 weeks with one having to take more time off with serious long covid symptoms.

[bots]

Have more people been killed fighting fires this year or from taking the vaccine?

the chances of catching covid are much much higher than the chances of being trapped in a building on fire

[Toy Soldier]

Have more people been killed fighting fires this year or from taking the vaccine?

I don't know the figures for either but I do know that the question is wrong because it can only be accurately answered proportionately, not as a raw number; over 4 billion people are vaccinated, there are not 4 billion firefighters in the world.

So the question is "are you more likely to be killed or injured entering a burning building than to be killed or injured getting a vaccine" and the answer is a very obvious yes. You're more likely to be killed or injured driving to the supermarket than getting a vaccine.

And of course there are far more dangerous professions than firefighting. Deep Sea Fishing I believe has a staggeringly high deaths/injuries rate. So I guess we could use that example too. Can you say "I don't want to go on any boats but I still want to be a deep sea fisherman and you are removing my freedoms if you say I can't do that".

[Toy Soldier]

I think that sacking the unvaccinated medical staff would do far more damage to the elderly, because there would be far less people caring for them. And the conspiracy theorist in me says that's what they want.

The reality of the current NHS staffing crisis is that they really can't afford to fire all of those staff members, which is why I think it's an empty threat anyway. But that's a separate issue really... the question of "is it justified" vs "will they actually do it".

I think saying "you can't work with the elderly and vulnerable if you aren't vaccinated" is justified ... but in reality, I don't think they'll actually do it in this country. They're already horrifically understaffed.

[Liam-]

I wonder if these anti-vaxxers are so adamant not to have any injections when it comes to going on holiday?

[arista]

I wonder if these anti-vaxxers are so adamant not to have any injections when it comes to going on holiday?


Some will not Fly.
So yes they are Crazy Folk.

[arista]

2 people in my office have caught covid since being double vaxed..both have been off for more than 2 weeks with one having to take more time off with serious long covid symptoms.



Yes but because of the Jabs
it prevents them going in Hospital.

Off for 2 weeks

Could be 1 week with tests at the end.

[Toy Soldier]

I wonder if these anti-vaxxers are so adamant not to have any injections when it comes to going on holiday?

As pure guesswork; they were fine with it pre-covid and never gave it a second thought, but now they'd cry "my freedums". We'll probably also see a surge in the number not getting their kids vaxxed. Stuff that they'd never have bothered about before but now they've had a wee google and gone down a Reddit rabbithole.

[bots]

what i'm finding since covid hit is that there has been a sweeping generalised categorisation of anti vaxxers when the majority of people not getting vaccinated are merely vaccine hesitant which is a different thing entirely. The actual % of anti vaxxers is a tiny % of the population

[arista]

what i'm finding since covid hit is that there has been a sweeping generalised categorisation of anti vaxxers when the majority of people not getting vaccinated are merely vaccine hesitant which is a different thing entirely. The actual % of anti vaxxers is a tiny % of the population


Yes Alf


is tiny.

[Beso]

Yes but because of the Jabs
it prevents them going in Hospital.

Off for 2 weeks

Could be 1 week with tests at the end.

2 weeks and counting..

[arista]

Meanwhile Down Under Gets Tough
Call the Police permitted for Alf's flock

1458024707874332677

[rusticgal]

I can't fathom why they would NOT want a jab. There is now enough statistical information to prove that jabs lower your risk of serious illness....dealing with sick people I would like all the protection I could. Like construction workers are not allowed on site without a hard hat, steel toe caps and high vis....


There is a lot of scare mongering out there....about it not being fully tested on long term effects. There was a debate on LBC the other day saying that it will have an impact on heart conditions especially in men...
Although it is not guaranteed to stop you getting the virus it is supposed to lessen your chances of being hospitalised and thats certainly true with my husband and I and my 91 year old father who has just had it with very mild symptoms....I wonder if there are any stats saying how many double jabbed people have been hospitalised or actually died...

[rusticgal]

Yes Alf


is tiny.



:laugh:

[Toy Soldier]

There is a lot of scare mongering out there....about it not being fully tested on long term effects. There was a debate on LBC the other day saying that it will have an impact on heart conditions especially in men...

The thing to remember there though is that Covid itself can have an effect on the cardiovascular system and the chances of that are far higher than with the vaccine ... so unless unvaccinated people think they can simply avoid EVER catching Covid naturally (highly unlikely, it's not going anywhere) then their increased risk of heart problems is much higher without the vaccine than with it. That's what I think some people aren't factoring in, I guess. They're weighing up "the risks of vaccines" vs "the risk of nothing at all", when it needs to be weighed against "the risk that comes with catching Covid naturally".

Basically ALL of the risks of vaccination are also risks with natural Covid ... but they're even more likely.

[Alf]

As pure guesswork; they were fine with it pre-covid and never gave it a second thought, but now they'd cry "my freedums". We'll probably also see a surge in the number not getting their kids vaxxed. Stuff that they'd never have bothered about before but now they've had a wee google and gone down a Reddit rabbithole.Which proves that they're not anti-vaxers add to that they don't protest the flu jab pretty much confirms that. So the label "Anti-vaxers" is so wide of the mark.

So maybe you're wasting time on concentrating on the vaccine and not looking into what they're really protesting about.

I think it's fairly obvious that Elite Globalist tyranny is what they're protesting against.

They first started protesting against being forced to shut down people business's and made to stay in their homes with the Police set on them if they didn't, and wear a mask to buy their groceries and were stopped from travelling, nothing to do with a vaccine. They're now protesting against authoritarian mandates like this and the threats of identity certificates, and the totally blanent hypocrisy and propaganda from those pushing these things.

This is definitely about The people's freedoms vs the Globalist tyranny, choose your side wisely.

[Beso]

Do many anti vaxxers work in the care homes or for the NHS.

I doubt they do, so we need to address the elephant in the room and discuss why people of non english ethnicities will not take up the vaccine.

[Crimson Dynamo]

From Talkradio just now

90,000 NHS staff are not vaccinated

Govt figures suggest that this move will persuade 20,000 to get vaccinated by next April

So potentially 70,000 will be sacked


Protect the vulnerable
Save lives
Protect the NHS


:skull:

[AnnieK]

From Talkradio just now

90,000 NHS staff are not vaccinated

Govt figures suggest that this move will persuade 20,000 to get vaccinated by next April

So potentially 70,000 will be sacked


Protect the vulnerable
Save lives
Protect the NHS


:skull:

How many of that figure are frontline staff? I read a stat that 5% are unvaccinated but it didn't say if they were office support staff with no patient access or actual nursing / care / ward staff.

[Crimson Dynamo]

How many of that figure are frontline staff? I read a stat that 5% are unvaccinated but it didn't say if they were office support staff with no patient access or actual nursing / care / ward staff.

https://www.itv.com/news/2021-11-09/covid-vaccines-to-be-compulsory-for-nhs-staff-in-england

[Toy Soldier]

From Talkradio just now

90,000 NHS staff are not vaccinated

Govt figures suggest that this move will persuade 20,000 to get vaccinated by next April

So potentially 70,000 will be sacked


Protect the vulnerable
Save lives
Protect the NHS


:skull:

To put these numbers in perspective, the NHS employs just shy of 2 million people across the UK.

[Crimson Dynamo]

To put these numbers in perspective, the NHS employs just shy of 2 million people across the UK.

sacking 70,000 people

is sacking 70,000 people

70,000 families

what is the uptick?

can we see the number benefit?

[Crimson Dynamo]

and its 1.2 million

[Toy Soldier]

and its 1.2 million

https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/publicsectorpersonnel/bulletins/publicsectoremployment/latest

The NHS employed an estimated 1.85 million people in June 2021, an increase of 5,000 (0.3%) compared with March 2021 and an increase of 63,000 (3.5%) compared with June 2020; the response to the coronavirus (COVID-19) pandemic has driven the increase on the previous year.

I'm sure you'll know better than the ONS though LT.

[Crimson Dynamo]

https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/publicsectorpersonnel/bulletins/publicsectoremployment/latest



I'm sure you'll know better than the ONS though LT.

no I rely on the actual NHS

https://www.jobs.nhs.uk/about_nhs.html

[Toy Soldier]

no I rely on the actual NHS

https://www.jobs.nhs.uk/about_nhs.html


Even your own link says “over 1.3 million” whereas you said “1.2 million” so you clearly weren’t relying on that the first time at all were you.