Floridas ‘Don’t Say Gay’ bill

[Glenn.]

The Florida Senate Education Committee passed a controversial bill on Tuesday that would bar school districts from encouraging classroom discussion about sexual orientation or gender identity. The Parental Rights in Education bill, commonly referred to the "Don't Say Gay" bill by its critics, would apply to such topics in primary grade levels, as well as in cases where the discussions are deemed "not age-appropriate."

The bill, proposed by Republican State Senator Dennis Baxley, would extend to student support services, including counseling, and would require school district personnel to give parents all information related to a student's "mental, emotional or physical health or well-being," unless it's believed that such disclosure would result in abuse. Parents would be able to sue districts that do not follow these requirements.

The bill's purpose, according to its text, is to "reinforce the fundamental right of parents to make decisions regarding the upbringing and control of their children."

The bill must be considered by two more Florida Senate committees, which could make changes, before it can be presented to the full chamber and then to the Florida House. If Florida legislators pass the bill, it would go into effect on July 1, with all school district plans having to be updated by June 30, 2023.

Florida Governor Ron DeSantis, who supports the bill, said at a roundtable in Miami on Monday that he doesn't approve of "injecting these concepts about choosing your gender" at schools.

"We've seen instances of students being told by different folks in school, 'Oh, don't worry. Don't pick your gender yet. Do all this other stuff.' They won't tell the parents about these discussions that are happening," DeSantis said. "That is entirely inappropriate. Schools need to be teaching kids to read, to write. They need to them them science, history. We need more civics."

DeSantis said he doesn't think such conversations are "going on in large numbers," but that he wants "to make sure that our schools are really focusing on the basics."

"We don't want them to be engines to be putting things like the CRT [critical race theory] that we talked about, things that are divisive and are not accurate of course when you start talking about some of the stuff that they're teaching with it, and making sure that we're really focusing on the basics," he said.

A 2019 survey from The Gay, Lesbian and Straight Education Network (GLSEN) found that the school climate in Florida is "not safe" for most LGBTQ students as it is.

The vast majority of LGBTQ youth who responded to the survey said they regularly heard anti-LGBTQ remarks in schools, and about a quarter had experienced physical harassment at school. But 98% of respondents could identify at least one school staff member who was supportive.


Studies have shown that nationally, schools serve as a vital support system for LGBTQ youth.

The Trevor Project's 2021 National Survey on LGBTQ Youth Mental Health found that of the more than 82,000 youth who responded, only one-third considered their home LGBTQ-affirming, while 50% considered their school to be so.

The organization released a statement on Tuesday condemning Florida's proposed bill, saying it would result in "erasing LGBTQ identity, history, and culture — as well as LGBTQ students themselves." The organization also said it would effectively allow schools to "out" students to their parents without their consent.

"Banning speech about sexual orientation and gender identity in Florida classrooms would not only ben an infringement on civil rights, it would erase entire chapters of history, classic literature, and critical health information from textbooks, to say nothing of erasing students themselves," Sam Ames, the Trevor Project's director of advocacy and government affairs, said in a statement.

The bill has drawn significant backlash, including from the White House.

"I want every member of the LGBTQI+ community — especially the kids who will be impacted by this hateful bill — to know that you are loved and accepted just as you are. I have your back, and my Administration will continue to fight for the protections and safety you deserve," said a tweet from President Biden.

I want every member of the LGBTQI+ community — especially the kids who will be impacted by this hateful bill — to know that you are loved and accepted just as you are. I have your back, and my Administration will continue to fight for the protections and safety you deserve. https://t.co/OcAIMeVpHL

— President Biden (@POTUS) February 8, 2022
"Every parent hopes that our leaders will ensure their children's safety, protection, and freedom," a White House spokesperson said in a statement reported by The Associated Press. "Today, conservative politicians in Florida rejected those basic values by advancing legislation that is designed to target and attack the kids who need support the most — LGBTQI+ students, who are already vulnerable to bullying and violence just for being themselves."

Students and LGBTQ advocates have been protesting the measure for days across the state.

"It's a radical roll back of the calendar," Scott Galvin, executive director of Safe Schools South Florida, told CBS Miami last week. "It will stop teachers and schools from talking to kids about LGBTQ issues and it will stop them from talking about gay issues among themselves."


Poor kids

[Crimson Dynamo]

Sounds like parents are taking back control from woke rubbish

[Oliver_W]

Rubbish about "picking your gender" etc and adding nonsense like QI+ to the end of LGBT is what poisons the well. This wouldn't be suggested without "gender" ideology being so ghastly.

[Glenn.]

Imagine advocating for gay kids to be outed by their teachers though. That’s horrendous

[Liam-]

Bigots scared their children will grow up learning to be decent people unlike them

[UserSince2005]

good, classrooms should be about maths and such, not sex

[Withano]

How they gonna learn about any literature without sexuality. They gonna rewrite Romeo and Juliet to be best mates and avoid almost every film ever? I think it will just delay them emotionally, I can’t think of a single benefit.

[Crimson Dynamo]

'You're entering a very dangerous zone ... this isn't teaching'

The bill — which has been approved by the state Senate Education Committee —
advocates for parental rights in schools and states that schools may not encourage any
"discussion about sexual orientation or gender identity in primary grade levels or in a
manner that is not age-appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students.”

:clap1:

[Crimson Dynamo]

Tina Descovich, co-founder of Moms for Liberty, a group that supports the Florida bill,
denies it amounts to “discrimination.”


“It is allowing parents to raise their children.”


Descovich cited the example of a woman whose 13-year-old had met with school
counselors about their gender identity without notifying her, including to decide “which
restroom she was going to use”

“We think that is wrong,” Descovich told AFP.


“I think that that is a discussion for the home, and I think there’s age appropriate
discussions,” she added.

https://www.breitbart.com/news/dont-say-gay-sex-education-fuels-us-culture-wars/

[arista]

Yes a South School Boss
in Florida just Live on BBCnewsHD, Worldwide at night time.


He said Florida is not like other states


Good enough for a GMBHD itv debate
from 6AM

[Mitchell]

Rubbish about "picking your gender" etc and adding nonsense like QI+ to the end of LGBT is what poisons the well. This wouldn't be suggested without "gender" ideology being so ghastly.

I am part of the Qi+, and my sexuality isn’t nonsense, not quite sure why I’m surprised.

[Oliver_W]

I am part of the Qi+

Are you "queer" or intersex? What makes "queer" different from gay?

[Mitchell]

Are you "queer" or intersex? What makes "queer" different from gay?

I’m in the +

[Jordan.]

Rubbish about "picking your gender" etc and adding nonsense like QI+ to the end of LGBT is what poisons the well. This wouldn't be suggested without "gender" ideology being so ghastly.

"Homophobes were fine when it was only the gays to worry about :oh:"

[Oliver_W]

I’m in the +

Where in the +?

[Livia]

Rubbish about "picking your gender" etc and adding nonsense like QI+ to the end of LGBT is what poisons the well. This wouldn't be suggested without "gender" ideology being so ghastly.

Agree with this 100%.

[Toy Soldier]

The problem isn't the specifics of which areas are encouraged, the problem to come at it quite bluntly is the overall encouragement of the naval-gazing narcissism of identity politics as a whole. Not only that but the attachment of some sort of moral superiority to it. Total chaos.

[Crimson Dynamo]

"teens who "want" to change genders...95% of them are unbearably confused"

As per Jordan nails it.

j332podOqR8

[Toy Soldier]

The real sad irony that I've observed from my daughter's school is that some of the kids who are being let down and swept under the carpet the absolute worst, are the "plain" gay and lesbian kids just coming out and starting to understand their sexuality.

The conversation is completely dominated and drowned out by gender ideology. Completely.

[Oliver_W]

The real sad irony that I've observed from my daughter's school is that some of the kids who are being let down and swept under the carpet the absolute worst, are the "plain" gay and lesbian kids just coming out and starting to understand their sexuality.

The conversation is completely dominated and drowned out by gender ideology. Completely.

Yup.

Gender is a social construct, and shouldn't be given such "airtime". Narcissistic self-exploration about exactly how one should be labelled doesn't help anyone. there's definitely a problem when someone who doesn't align perfectly with stereotypes associated with their sex, he or she needs to be called something else.

[Niamh.]

Yup.

Gender is a social construct, and shouldn't be given such "airtime". Narcissistic self-exploration about exactly how one should be labelled doesn't help anyone. there's definitely a problem when someone who doesn't align perfectly with stereotypes associated with their sex, he or she needs to be called something else.

Not sure who posted this but I saw it online somewhere and I thought it was spot on :

Sexism = the women should do the dishes.

Feminism = men or women can do the dishes.

Gender ideology = whoever is doing the dishes is a woman.

[Liam-]

Not sure who posted this but I saw it online somewhere and I thought it was spot on :

Sexism = the women should do the dishes.

Feminism = men or women can do the dishes.

Gender ideology = whoever is doing the dishes is a woman.

Whoever posted that is clearly an idiot and doesn’t understand what transgender really is

[Crimson Dynamo]

Not sure who posted this but I saw it online somewhere and I thought it was spot on :

Sexism = the women should do the dishes.

Feminism = men or women can do the dishes.

Gender ideology = whoever is doing the dishes is a woman.

:joker:

[Liam-]

But yeah, let’s agree with things that are undoubtedly going to damage an entire community because some people aren’t comfortable with trans people, I mean if only gay and trans people just shut up and sat in the corner somewhere right? Then we wouldn’t be targeted constantly, obviously our fault, silly us.

[Niamh.]

Whoever posted that is clearly an idiot and doesn’t understand what transgender really is

From what I can see the trans lobby don't understand what a woman is either so I think it's pretty accurate.

[Oliver_W]

But yeah, let’s agree with things that are undoubtedly going to damage an entire community because some people aren’t comfortable with trans people, I mean if only gay and trans people just shut up and sat in the corner somewhere right? Then we wouldn’t be targeted constantly, obviously our fault, silly us.

Most of the vitriol seems to be a direct result of "activism" and look-at-me behaviour, so if LGBT people just tried to exist and live their lives, people wouldn't be reacting.

[Toy Soldier]

Whoever posted that is clearly an idiot and doesn’t understand what transgender really is

I think most people understand what actual transgenderism is, in concept. The culture, the cult of hyperindividualism, that has blown up over the last 5 years is something completely different and yes it is going to be damaging to the entire LGBTQ community. That's not "OK" but it's a fact.

I don't agree at all with this bull**** in florida, it's an absolute disaster for young people who are going to be hitting the age where they're trying to understand their sexuality, but at some point you have to put on your pragmatist hat and realise that it's a backlash to something that's gone completely off the rails.

The argument against it from those who are clearly more moderate, yet still supportive of it, is this blinkered "but this isn't happening, that isn't happening, that clearly won't happen" about things that are already happening :facepalm:.

[Glenn.]

Most of the vitriol seems to be a direct result of "activism" and look-at-me behaviour, so if LGBT people just tried to exist and live their lives, people wouldn't be reacting.

Imagine having to ‘try and exist and live their lives’

[Crimson Dynamo]

Imagine advocating for gay kids to be outed by their teachers though. That’s horrendous

Imagine having to ‘try and exist and live their lives’



Imagine all the people
Livin' life in peace

[Oliver_W]

Imagine having to ‘try and exist and live their lives’

It's very easy to do just that :shrug:

[Ninastar]

Elementary school aged kids shouldn’t be learning about LGBT opinions/issues imo

Also I was just in Florida last month and there was gay stuff everywhere. Granted it was Disney/Orlando but I saw pride things everywhere and also saw at least like 10+ gay couples. It was nice tbh.

I went with my partner and not one person gave us any abuse about being a gay couple. It was a super pleasant trip and I was nervous about going because I haven’t really done anything so ~public~ with her but honestly it was just like any other day

[Toy Soldier]

Imagine having to ‘try and exist and live their lives’

This is making life harder for them though. I don't like to "play the card" often but it's relevant here - my daughter (early teens) is gay, has gay friends, non-binary friends, etc. The school is very pro-LGBTQ+ and inclusive, hosts clubs, things like that which is all great.

Except here's the uncomfortable truth;

The gay kids don't use the LGBTQ+ clubs any more. Gay male kids have abandonned them entirely, lesbian kids have held out for longer but have given up. Because the clubs have been entirely taken over by, in the words of my daughter and her friends who are gay and have tried going along, "kids who are just looking for attention, changing their name and their pronouns every few days". They make their own groups and hang out elsewhere.

These are the messy kids from her primary school, who (and I'm not without sympathy here) come from very complex home backgrounds and have many complicated things going on. But when they were 7, they were telling people that their dad was secretly a millionare from Australia. When they were 10, they were telling everyone they had cancer. And now they're 13 and Polly is telling everyone she's now a he, and now Paul. Then people get used to them being Paul and are fine with it and the attention dies off - so they become "P", and genderless. And then everyone gets used to "P" and suddenly "P" has something else going on. This isn't one kid, this is a lot of kids... it's kids with issues.

I believe gender dysphoria is real. I believe transexuality is a real thing. I believe it's been hijacked by something completely different and in a panic to ensure we all stay "affirming and inclusive" that's being ignored... to the detriment of other LGBT kids, and ultimately to the detriment of those kids themselves, as their very real issues (that have NOTHING to do with their sexuality or gender identity) are buried and ignored under a torrent of performative nonsense. From teachers. Grown-ass adults. It's a ****ing disgrace.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Ben takes aim:

kOlj12AERiA

[Withano]

It's very easy to do just that :shrug:

Well… not if you’re about and they're self-identifying as something you don’t understand…

[Ninastar]

This is making life harder for them though. I don't like to "play the card" often but it's relevant here - my daughter (early teens) is gay, has gay friends, non-binary friends, etc. The school is very pro-LGBTQ+ and inclusive, hosts clubs, things like that which is all great.

Except here's the uncomfortable truth;

The gay kids don't use the LGBTQ+ clubs any more. Gay male kids have abandonned them entirely, lesbian kids have held out for longer but have given up. Because the clubs have been entirely taken over by, in the words of my daughter and her friends who are gay and have tried going along, "kids who are just looking for attention, changing their name and their pronouns every few days". They make their own groups and hang out elsewhere.

These are the messy kids from her primary school, who (and I'm not without sympathy here) come from very complex home backgrounds and have many complicated things going on. But when they were 7, they were telling people that their dad was secretly a millionare from Australia. When they were 10, they were telling everyone they had cancer. And now they're 13 and Polly is telling everyone she's now a he, and now Paul. Then people get used to them being Paul and are fine with it and the attention dies off - so they become "P", and genderless. And then everyone gets used to "P" and suddenly "P" has something else going on. This isn't one kid, this is a lot of kids... it's kids with issues.

I believe gender dysphoria is real. I believe transexuality is a real thing. I believe it's been hijacked by something completely different and in a panic to ensure we all stay "affirming and inclusive" that's being ignored... to the detriment of other LGBT kids, and ultimately to the detriment of those kids themselves, as their very real issues (that have NOTHING to do with their sexuality or gender identity) are buried and ignored under a torrent of performative nonsense. From teachers. Grown-ass adults. It's a ****ing disgrace.

How strange… I’m an ocean away from you and we have a similar situation here. My OH has kids and the oldest is a young teen and her friends are all super gay friendly and support the lgbt community, but apparently there’s a few kids who don’t identify as anything (which, fair goes to them) but they are also the bully of the classrooms…

In recent years (and this is just my opinion, not fact or anything) I’ve found that kids (and also internet culture) seem to think you can have an opinion on X if you aren’t X

And to me that isn’t right because you can believe in other causes that you aren’t a part of. It makes you an ally and our allies are just as important. We wouldn’t get anywhere in life without them.

Basically what I’m saying is that there’s this kid who identifies as X and they treat other kids like crap because the other kids ‘have no idea what it’s like to be a minority’

And it’s just crazy to me that it’s okay for kids to be taught and think this way

[Crimson Dynamo]

Well… not if you’re about and they're self-identifying as something you don’t understand…

like a cat?

[Oliver_W]

like a cat?

Well, quite :joker: people "identifying as" and trying to live as the sex they aren't is one thing, and a thing most people don't give a stuff about.
But trying to force the ideology into public discourse and especially schools is where the problem lies. Especially when it comes to stupid nonsensical labels.

[Toy Soldier]

I think that's the crux of it really. Gender identity is a philosophical ideology... In fact the entire concept of gender is, literally, a philosophical ideology. There is of course nothing WRONG with philosophical ideologies and all people hold all sorts of ideologies, but when it comes to an educational setting, they should only ever be DISCUSSED... Not dictated... And respectfully stated alternate viewpoints should always be OK. That's what we seem to have lost.