How Ukrainian women will suffer

[Niamh.]

Suddenly, images of Ukrainian women are all over the internet. Most of them are mothers, fleeing Russian convoys, carrying their children across borders. Many of them are leaving husbands and brothers behind to fight. But these heart-wrenching photographs, published by the mainstream media, are only part of the story. Ukrainian women will suffer in myriad ways before this war is over.

Pornhub has a new category: “Ukrainian girls and war rape videos”; it is dominated by Russian soldiers documenting disgustingly brutal crimes. Domestic violence and street harassment have already spiked. Female refugees are falling victim to pimps and traffickers; official channels — the police, hospitals, legal systems — won’t help them.

Where women are concerned, “the foreign coverage of the war is concentrated mostly on women fleeing with children”, Maria Dmytrieva tells me. The Ukrainian feminist activist — a key member of the Global Network of Women Peacekeepers — believes this coverage misrepresents the reality of war for women, and the ways in which women specifically become targets for attack.

We speak via Zoom, and as night falls, she sits in darkness, so as not to be spotted by saboteurs. Although the Russians had not yet arrived in her small town, a few miles outside Kyiv, like everybody else in Ukraine she is in a perilous position.

Maria has been involved in the campaign to end male violence in Ukraine for more than two decades. I have visited her in Ukraine on several occasions and have seen her make powerful men in senior government positions quake when she rails against injustices towards women and girls.

One study from 2019 found that 75% of women in Ukraine reported experiencing some form of violence since the age of 15, and one in three reported experiencing physical or sexual violence. According to a recent statement by the United Nations, crisis and displacement has recently put women in Ukraine at increased risk of sexual and physical violence and abuse. There are no figures as of yet to show the levels of violence experienced by women and girls since the Russian invasion, but plenty of evidence is being amassed by women’s NGOs.

In many ways, the experiences of women in Ukraine echo the plight of women in wars throughout history: we face reduced protections from violence and often an increase of domestic abuse. The situation is exacerbated, though, by the fact that Ukraine is being invaded by a country which effectively decriminalised domestic violence in 2017. It is well-documented that, post-conflict, when traumatised men return home, levels of violence against women increase. But if Russia wins, the right of Ukrainian men to beat their wives will be enshrined in the law of the land.

“So far we have felt as a nation, united around this common threat”, Dmytrieva told me. “But we are pretty much bound to have the growth of cases of domestic violence, of male violence against women, both during and after the war is over”.

Domestic violence is not the only threat to women in war. There is a “new wave of sexual violence”, with 11 reports from different women that they were raped by Russian soldiers in Kershon, confirmed by a local gynaecologist. Of those 11, only five survived. Other reports of sexual violation by troops are being picked up by the UK media, but, according to Dmytrieva, little is being done to help.

Rape victims will suffer consequences long after the conflict has ended — especially those whose violation is circulated on the internet. The existence of this sick revenge porn ensures that the women brutalised in it will never be able to return to a normal life. Even if they escape the conflict, it then ends, and they make it home, they are likely to be shunned by their families.

The videos are perfect ammunition for pimps and traffickers to use to control women and force them into prostitution. Displaced women and girls are often without any food, shelter or income, with many caring for children. Traffickers seize the opportunity to coerce women into selling sex, and soon they are trapped and held captive. “It is really terrifying how capitalism and imperialism are going hand in hand to exploit those who cannot defend themselves right now”, Dmytrieva tells me. “And it is truly terrifying to see that amongst all this surge in humanity in caring for other people, there are those who want to exploit this weakness and make money out of it. It is very disheartening”.

“Organised gangs [are] trying to abduct young women on the Ukrainian Polish border and we already have several cases in Germany where the girls have been abducted by pimps in the refugee camps”, Dmytrieva explains. Punters in Germany are delighted; feminist colleagues have seen screenshots of them “talking online with each other about how happy they are to have young fresh Ukrainian women crossing the German border”. With no home, no money, no job, no resources, and a very limited legal framework protecting them, these displaced women are among the most vulnerable in the world.

https://unherd.com/2022/03/how-ukrainian-women-will-suffer/?tl_inbound=1&tl_groups[0]=18743&tl_period_type=3&mc_cid=a6f7fb17b5&mc_eid=df5d7d0bd7&fbclid=IwAR0IA_HxQamUYIEFOB-ox3NdtFVGqmX7d6JDhhmPdWVIOEVf3FZkVAzHxAo

[bots]

it's abhorrent, there will be thousands of prince andrews queuing up to take advantage. People should apply the same sanctions to pornhub and the like that they have been doing so quickly elsewhere

[Niamh.]

it's abhorrent, there will be thousands of prince andrews queuing up to take advantage. People should apply the same sanctions to pornhub and the like that they have been doing so quickly elsewhere

It's disgusting and people wonder why Porn is so problematic for women and girls

[Cherie]

I heard this yesterday that at the borders where these women and children are crossing some people turning up to drive them to 'safety' are people traffickers and they authorities there have no database of who is who or where they are going.

it did occur to me as well a I have heard a few men ringing in LBC to say they had rooms they could offer and they were outraged that they couldnt just have someone come and live with them, but safeguarding has to come to play and while 99% may be genuine you will always get people who take advantage.

[Livia]

Time to start cutting off cocks as a deterrent when these people are caught. Paedophiles are the lowest form of life and pimps are right down there with them. I don't suppose any mentally ill men will be identifying as these particular women.

[Niamh.]

I heard this yesterday that at the borders where these women and children are crossing some people turning up to drive them to 'safety' are people traffickers and they authorities there have no database of who is who or where they are going.

it did occur to me as well a I have heard a few men ringing in LBC to say they had rooms they could offer and they were outraged that they couldnt just have someone come and live with them, but safeguarding has to come to play and while 99% may be genuine you will always get people who take advantage.

Yeah, they were talking about it here too because they are rolling out some sort of program where people can offer spare rooms to refugees but those offering rooms would need to be vetted, of course it's a lovely thing to do to help but we can't not safe guard these (mainly) women and children just because its a nice thing to do

[Cherie]

Surely Pornhub should be subject to the same outrage and pressure that Maccy Ds and Coca Cola came under to shut down anything Russian related

[Livia]

Surely Pornhub should be subject to the same outrage and pressure that Maccy Ds and Coca Cola came under to shut down anything Russian related

I've just searched Pornhub (it wasn't pretty...) for any trace of these images/vids and I can't see any. Maybe already taken down? Hope so.

[The Slim Reaper]

Time to start cutting off cocks as a deterrent when these people are caught. Paedophiles are the lowest form of life and pimps are right down there with them. I don't suppose any mentally ill men will be identifying as these particular women.

jesus ****ing christ.

[Kizzy]

The erosion of the rights of women is happening everywhere, even on international Women's day the government refused to look at the cost of childcare. Funding for domestic violence charities is cut and refuges closed even though domestic violence is almost endemic in this country. Convictions for rape are a joke as are investigations and sentences for child abuse. We have laws here but in all honestly they don't appear to be worth the paper they are written on.
The vulnerable will be exploited even easier in war time, it's good to see awareness of this happening in Ukraine being spread across the globe, and the methods used exposed. This way countries as seen can double down on safeguarding at borders.

[Oliver_W]

It's a similar situation with homeless women. Online discourse around this sort of thing sucks:
https://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=5355&stc=1&d=1646831834
And while at a glance it makes it look like homelessness is largely a male problem, the difference is because homeless women get snapped up by pimps, kept in a drugged up semi-catatonic state, and forced to be prostitutes. We could point to the fact there are more respurces out there to support homeless women, but thwy're still extremely vulnerable to exploitation.


Time to start cutting off cocks as a deterrent when these people are caught. Paedophiles are the lowest form of life and pimps are right down there with them. I don't suppose any mentally ill men will be identifying as these particular women.
When Ukraine says all men need to join the army:
https://c.tenor.com/4LvBFXNMkkkAAAAC/it-is-maam-its-maam.gif

[Beso]

The erosion of the rights of women is happening everywhere, even on international Women's day the government refused to look at the cost of childcare. Funding for domestic violence charities is cut and refuges closed even though domestic violence is almost endemic in this country. Convictions for rape are a joke as are investigations and sentences for child abuse. We have laws here but in all honestly they don't appear to be worth the paper they are written on.
The vulnerable will be exploited even easier in war time, it's good to see awareness of this happening in Ukraine being spread across the globe, and the methods used exposed. This way countries as seen can double down on safeguarding at borders.



And you were moaning about the Ukraine refugee crisis and. Britains slow intake...


Perhaps you and all the other people using this as a stick to bash the government with can now see why they do things differently to the rest of Europe.

This was absolutely glaringly obvious, and is why the uk prefer to check properly.

[Alf]

jesus ****ing christ.That's not his middle name.

[Kizzy]

And you were moaning about the Ukraine refugee crisis and. Britains slow intake...


Perhaps you and all the other people using this as a stick to bash the government with can now see why they do things differently to the rest of Europe.

This was absolutely glaringly obvious, and is why the uk prefer to check properly.

Nope.. I was commenting on our governments delay in deciding to accept refugees at all initially, let it be known Priti Patels hesitancy had nothing to do with safeguarding.

[UserSince2005]

they dont have their husbands to protect them, :sad:

[The Slim Reaper]

That's not his middle name.

Sounded better than Geoff - his actual middle name.

[Kizzy]

Sounded better than Geoff - his actual middle name.

Nope it's Henry.

Jesus H Christ.

[The Slim Reaper]

Nope it's Henry.

Jesus H Christ.

Now that's the kind of name that could produce a ML winner :smug:

[Beso]

Nope.. I was commenting on our governments delay in deciding to accept refugees at all initially, let it be known Priti Patels hesitancy had nothing to do with safeguarding.

In your opinion.

[The Slim Reaper]

In your opinion.

And factually, in the opinions of people who work in this sector.

There have even been reports (by the British Embassy no less) that officials are asking to see utility bills of people fleeing a war zone.

This is where the economic migrant/refugee/asylum seeker myth is revealed in all it's glory, as well as the post brexit nimbleness that leaving was supposed to afford us.

[Oliver_W]

What's wrong with verifying people's identities?

[The Slim Reaper]

Because if you're applying for a car loan, that's fair enough, if you've been forced out of your homes and country, then it's an invented barrier to make sure that we help as few people as possible.

Not surprising when the government is funded by Putin.

[bots]

verifying peoples identities on arrival helps in all sorts of ways. For example how else are families going to be re-united down the line. How else can vulnerable people be protected from traffickers.

We have proper services in this country and that requires proper registration. I can't believe people are actually arguing against it

[The Slim Reaper]

Pretending that it's normal for folks displaced by war, to have access to all the possessions they would normally have access to, is so unbelievably disingenuous.

[The Slim Reaper]

Actual war zone

1501579520633102349

How people who despise foreigners see evacuation in a war zone:

https://d13urrra316e2f.cloudfront.net/optimized/3X/6/8/68cc51414e40a04c3574b23b80be5758dce5ae37_2_401x500 .png

[arista]

[Mariupol. Direct strike of Russian troops at
the maternity hospital.
People, children are under the wreckage.
Atrocity! How much longer will the world
be an accomplice ignoring terror?]


We are not ignoring it, slim.


If only Ukraine was in NATO!

[MTVN]

Didn't pornhub change their rules so they screened everything and you had to be verified to upload videos? A 'war rape' category sounds more like something you'd see on the darkweb

It is something I was thinking about though, the mass exploitation opportunities from so many displaced people that are largely female and vulnerable. They'll be a lot of horrific abuse getting carried out that will fly under the radar

[thesheriff443]

Women are abused in times of war and peace.

Humans have been taking advantage of other humans since time began.

[thesheriff443]

There will be videos on porn sites claiming to be of Ukrainian women when in reality they are just women already involved in making porn videos.

[arista]

Women are abused in times of war and peace.

Humans have been taking advantage of other humans since time began.


Sadly
very true.

[Beso]

And factually, in the opinions of people who work in this sector.

There have even been reports (by the British Embassy no less) that officials are asking to see utility bills of people fleeing a war zone.

This is where the economic migrant/refugee/asylum seeker myth is revealed in all it's glory, as well as the post brexit nimbleness that leaving was supposed to afford us.

Why do you see asking for a utility bill as a negative?

It's obviously been spun..

The original question would have been do you have a passport?...then the questionnaire in wanting to help as much as they could, and knowing their plight, would say that a utility bill, or anything else similar will do, so they can rush them through.

Its pathetic and downright disgraceful leftist politics.

[thesheriff443]

There will be people trying to get in the country by claiming to be Ukrainian

[user104658]

Honestly though it's just a ****ing stupid question isn't it. "When you fled the country, did you happen to grab a utility bill on the way out?

Just nonsense.

Also... I don't know about other countries but... Who even gets physical utility bills these days?

[bots]

they will go down the list. Passport, driving license, id card, student card etc, then they will check against their family in the UK. Simple checks, that will cut out the majority of people trying to con their way in

There is nothing difficult in it really. Bear in mind that the people being processed are already in a safe country within europe, its not like we are bordering ukraine

[glib]

even on international Women's day the government refused to look at the cost of childcare

On ‘International Woman’s Day’ the government had bigger problems to sort than this :shrug:

[glib]

Surely Pornhub should be subject to the same outrage and pressure that Maccy Ds and Coca Cola came under to shut down anything Russian related

They probably are, it just isn’t reported in MSM because of the graphic details

[thesheriff443]

they will go down the list. Passport, driving license, id card, student card etc, then they will check against their family in the UK. Simple checks, that will cut out the majority of people trying to con their way in

There is nothing difficult in it really. Bear in mind that the people being processed are already in a safe country within europe, its not like we are bordering ukraine

Exactly, great post as always

[glib]

Had a look on this online only company’s front page. Articles straight away about why all the left wing are sexist, trans people are misogynistic, using preferred pronouns is sexist… the list goes on
Articles are even labelled ‘opinion’ or not. This was written by a self proclaimed hardcore feminist.

[The Slim Reaper]

they will go down the list. Passport, driving license, id card, student card etc, then they will check against their family in the UK. Simple checks, that will cut out the majority of people trying to con their way in

There is nothing difficult in it really. Bear in mind that the people being processed are already in a safe country within europe, its not like we are bordering ukraine

If they're at utility bills, how do you think that list is going? Not everyone was an evacuee before bombs started flying, so even expecting that folks will have passports is a complete stretch.

Already in a safe european country is irrelevant, and is along the lines of the made up nonsense that seemed to be created in anti-asylum seeking circles of "first safe country." Was never a thing then (proven in UK courts), and it's either not a thing or completely irrelevant now.

You know how the media manipulates the people in this country when poland have already taken in 1.2 million, and our hundred or so is deemed too many.

[glib]

You know how the media manipulates the people in this country when poland have already taken in 1.2 million, and our hundred or so is deemed too many.

Who said it was ‘too many’?

[The Slim Reaper]

Who said it was ‘too many’?

When we know what we've done to help out as a country (or not), and people are making excuses and commending our little effort, it's not because they think we should be making more of an effort.

[Kizzy]

On ‘International Woman’s Day’ the government had bigger problems to sort than this :shrug:

That's all issue's affecting women get ...dismissed with a pathetic shrug.

I of course appreciate the current situation facing the world, in which case you would expect things to be postponed and rescheduled for consideration. This was not the case. The war was used as an excuse to shelve a very important issue for the British workforce.

Am I surprised you dismiss this like it was something trivial because it is a female focused issue ( although it affects families not just women)? ... No.

[glib]

That's all issue's affecting women get ...dismissed with a pathetic shrug.

I of course appreciate the current situation facing the world, in which case you would expect things to be postponed and rescheduled for consideration. This was not the case. The war was used as an excuse to shelve a very important issue for the British workforce.

Am I surprised you dismiss this like it was something trivial because it is a female focused issue ( although it affects families not just women)? ... No.

well childcare issues also apply to dads, suppose you hadn’t considered that,, so don’t shrug this off as some sort of misogynistic act from Parliament, even with all the females, personal and professional, by Boris’ side (Carrie, Priti, , Nadine, Liz), nor suggest, unprovoked, that I’m misogynistic either. Because out of nowhere you’ve gotten personal, when this was a political discussion

Ukraine is more important right now whether you like it or not. We have female citizens, our own fighting out there, we’re trying to get them back. We have female Ukrainians trying to get in. We had Zelenskyy that very day, front page news, talking to Parliament, and to the nation itself.

It hasn’t been ‘shelved’, nor has the war been used as ‘an excuse’. If you want it debated so much, why not start a petition? I can’t believe you’re criticising the government for putting a war higher on its agenda than domestic policies that don’t affect everyone , like this war will. Put yourself in Boris’ shoes hun.

Are mums going to nuke the U.K. because on International Women’s Day Boris decided not to debate childcare issues? no.

[Kizzy]

well childcare issues also apply to dads, suppose you hadn’t considered that,, so don’t shrug this off as some sort of misogynistic act from Parliament, even with all the females, personal and professional, by Boris’ side (Carrie, Priti, , Nadine, Liz), nor suggest, unprovoked, that I’m misogynistic either. Because out of nowhere you’ve gotten personal, when this was a political discussion

Ukraine is more important right now whether you like it or not. We have female citizens, our own fighting out there, we’re trying to get them back. We have female Ukrainians trying to get in. We had Zelenskyy that very day, front page news, talking to Parliament, and to the nation itself.

It hasn’t been ‘shelved’, nor has the war been used as ‘an excuse’. If you want it debated so much, why not start a petition? I can’t believe you’re criticising the government for putting a war higher on its agenda than domestic policies that don’t affect everyone , like this war will. Put yourself in Boris’ shoes hun.

Are mums going to nuke the U.K. because on International Women’s Day Boris decided not to debate childcare issues? no.

You did see this right? .....
affects families not just women

Your comment was very dismissive..my reply reflected that. Who said the situation in Ukraine wasn't important. It was a petition... and I can criticise the government if I feel it's justified. All that was needed was a commitment to revisit this at a time when world events didn't (quite rightly) take precidence. That to me was the failure.

[GoldHeart]

I heard this yesterday that at the borders where these women and children are crossing some people turning up to drive them to 'safety' are people traffickers and they authorities there have no database of who is who or where they are going.

it did occur to me as well a I have heard a few men ringing in LBC to say they had rooms they could offer and they were outraged that they couldnt just have someone come and live with them, but safeguarding has to come to play and while 99% may be genuine you will always get people who take advantage.

Utterly horrific and scary , vulnerable people being taken advantage of.

Every time i watch the coverage of the war in Ukraine, things get worse & worse. maternity hospital bombed ..... there's no words . They literally don't give a damn who or what they destroy .... callous . SO many innocent civilians having to flee their homes.

[glib]

You did see this right? .....
affects families not just women

Your comment was very dismissive..my reply reflected that. Who said the situation in Ukraine wasn't important. It was a petition... and I can criticise the government if I feel it's justified. All that was needed was a commitment to revisit this at a time when world events didn't (quite rightly) take precidence. That to me was the failure.

I was replying to your claim that childcare is only a woman’s issue. Nowhere in what I replied to have you claimed it was a ‘family issue’

‘Dismissive’, yeah because, Ukraine, and Ukranian women trying to get here, are more important right now. That doesn’t mean you need to call me or Parliament misogynistic.

Has it been said anywhere ‘we won’t discuss childcare issues ever again’ …?

[user104658]

Parliament is misogynistic by default so I think it's fine to call parliament misogynistic. It's just a statement of fact.

[Niamh.]

I was replying to your claim that childcare is only a woman’s issue. Nowhere in what I replied to have you claimed it was a ‘family issue’

‘Dismissive’, yeah because, Ukraine, and Ukranian women trying to get here, are more important right now. That doesn’t mean you need to call me or Parliament misogynistic.

Has it been said anywhere ‘we won’t discuss childcare issues ever again’ …?

In the post you quoted of hers she literally said it was a family issue

[Oliver_W]

Parliament is misogynistic by default

How so?

[user104658]

How so?That's a 50,000 word post right there Oliver, it would essentially be impossible to go into. All I can really say is, with enough study of sociology, politics and history it becomes impossible to ignore that the very roots of "democracy", and really all politics, stretching back until the dawn of any sort of written record keeping, is unquestionably paternalistic, misogynistic and classist (and in my opinion the class system itself, and certainly the entire system of free market capitalism, is rooted in male instinct if you follow the thread far enough).

Not to be ironically classist about it but... It's not really something that it's possible to go into without vast amounts of background reading.

Once you see it though it becomes painfully obvious.

[bots]

parliament dates back centuries, so the fundamental constructs were formulated by men. A framework designed by men, for men. It's not difficult to understand that the only way to change that is to come up with a new framework that is not inherently biased

[Cherie]

The response is woeful.....

Priti has no answer to illegal mainly men crossing the channel, but women and children fleeing war and trying to come the legal routes...nah...bear in mind all of these people will have family members here already

[Oliver_W]

That's a 50,000 word post right there Oliver, it would essentially be impossible to go into. All I can really say is, with enough study of sociology, politics and history it becomes impossible to ignore that the very roots of "democracy", and really all politics, stretching back until the dawn of any sort of written record keeping, is unquestionably paternalistic, misogynistic and classist (and in my opinion the class system itself, and certainly the entire system of free market capitalism, is rooted in male instinct if you follow the thread far enough).

Not to be ironically classist about it but... It's not really something that it's possible to go into without vast amounts of background reading.

Once you see it though it becomes painfully obvious.

Parliament now is different to parliament then. Everyone who's in parliament is there because they stood, and were elected.

Maybe in some ways the world needs to wake up to the fact there are two genders and they both matter ... But when it comes to standing for election and actually voting, everyone is equal.

[Oliver_W]

The response is woeful.....

Priti has no answer to illegal mainly men crossing the channel, but women and children fleeing war and trying to come the legal routes...nah...bear in mind all of these people will have family members here already

Yeah it's bonkers innit, priorities totally screwed. She's unwilling to do anything to abate the migrant crisis largely consisting of fighting age men, but the refugees - mostly women and children as Ukraine's men are trying to defend their country - are getting bound in red tape?

[The Slim Reaper]

The problem with Priti Patel is that she's not tough enough on asylum seekers?

This is not a normal country.

[glib]

Parliament is misogynistic by default so I think it's fine to call parliament misogynistic. It's just a statement of fact.

Can you explain why then, it’s misogynistic, rather than just shrug it off?

[Cherie]

The problem with Priti Patel is that she's not tough enough on asylum seekers?

This is not a normal country.

The point is she says we have to have checks to protect the UK but she has still not managed to do that with the channel crossers, she lets them in...she needs to do the same with the women and children...checking can be done in this side as it is with the channel crossers

[The Slim Reaper]

The point is she says we have to have checks to protect the UK but she has still not managed to do that with the channel crossers, she lets them in...she needs to do the same with the women and children...checking can be done in this side as it is with the channel crossers

What would you like her to do with the channel crossers, that, under international law, are within their rights to arrive in a country and claim asylum?

I mean, she was looking at creating sonic boom machines to capsize them or send them back into the waves at one stage, and she's tried making rescuing them punishable with a sentence.

We did the least when in the EU, now we're trying to do even less, so what do you think is the silver bullet she's missing?

If you hate having refugees arrive here, maybe campaign against selling the bombs to countries that create a constant supply of refugees to begin with. Also a solid climate change policy, because as the planet continues to heat up, more and more people will be displaced.

[glib]

parliament dates back centuries, so the fundamental constructs were formulated by men. A framework designed by men, for men. It's not difficult to understand that the only way to change that is to come up with a new framework that is not inherently biased

So you’re using the ‘centuries old’ argument

the monarch controlled Parliament, who was in it etc in the 1800s, , so can you explain why Victoria never intervened if it was so misogynistic , in fact she presided over the extension of the reform act giving most males right to vote sometime in the 1860s or 1870s
She was 17 years too late actually for even a nod at female reform

The only female positive thing Victoria did I think was the bedchamber crisis, which was early on in her reign anyway

[Cherie]

What would you like her to do with the channel crossers, that, under international law, are within their rights to arrive in a country and claim asylum?

I mean, she was looking at creating sonic boom machines to capsize them or send them back into the waves at one stage, and she's tried making rescuing them punishable with a sentence.

We did the least when in the EU, now we're trying to do even less, so what do you think is the silver bullet she's missing?

If you hate having refugees arrive here, maybe campaign against selling the bombs to countries that create a constant supply of refugees to begin with. Also a solid climate change policy, because as the planet continues to heat up, more and more people will be displaced.

I don't hate anything about anything, just pointing out the inconsistencies of her approach

I have always said we should be giving refuge to the most vulnerable, you can check my post history if you care to

[glib]

The point is she says we have to have checks to protect the UK but she has still not managed to do that with the channel crossers, she lets them in...she needs to do the same with the women and children...checking can be done in this side as it is with the channel crossers

It’s not as simple at that,

[The Slim Reaper]

I don't hate anything about anything, just pointing out the inconsistencies of her approach

I have always said we should be giving refuge to the most vulnerable, you can check my post history if you care to

Her approach has been nothing but consistent, but I'm sorry it's still not consistent enough for you.

When the most vulnerable have been as consistently demonised by our media and politicians, then it's natural that acceptance of which kind of people fall into that category, isn't necessarily in line with the truth.

[user104658]

Parliament now is different to parliament then. Everyone who's in parliament is there because they stood, and were elected.



Maybe in some ways the world needs to wake up to the fact there are two genders and they both matter ... But when it comes to standing for election and actually voting, everyone is equal.It's nowhere near that simple, even if parliament was 50/50 men and women it would still be built on millenia of patriarchal power structures.

Something to consider, I suppose: Margaret Thatcher was by far - by FAR - a bigger representative of patriarchal power than John Major.

If you can understand that and understand why, that's a decent starting point.

[Cherie]

We could all be refugees soon except there will be no where to run to the way things are panning out

[Cherie]

Think I have closed the thread now I have turned into Zizu ...even my cup half full attitude is faltering :bawling:

[bots]

Chizu rises from the ashes like a phoenix :laugh:

[glib]

Think I have closed the thread now I have turned into Zizu ...even my cup half full attitude is faltering :bawling:

Niamh will determine when it’s closed, although she seems to enjoy watching drama unfold

[user104658]

Think I have closed the thread now I have turned into Zizu ...even my cup half full attitude is faltering :bawling:It is a bit dramatic Cherie, Russia have struggled more than they thought to even take Ukraine, there's literally zero chance of them staging an effective invasion of Europe let alone the UK (the hardest part of Europe to invade).

Unless you're talking about nukes but we're obviously nowhere near that sort of worry yet. The important thing to remember on that front is that despite what the tabloids say... Putin is not insane. Power hungry and without conscience, maybe, but he hasn't "gone mad", its a completely false narrative.

[Cherie]

Chizu rises from the ashes like a phoenix :laugh:

:laugh:

[Cherie]

It is a bit dramatic Cherie, Russia have struggled more than they thought to even take Ukraine, there's literally zero chance of them staging an effective invasion of Europe let alone the UK (the hardest part of Europe to invade).

Unless you're talking about nukes but we're obviously nowhere near that sort of worry yet. The important thing to remember on that front is that despite what the tabloids say... Putin is not insane. Power hungry and without conscience, maybe, but he hasn't "gone mad", its a completely false narrative.

I don't think he is mad either or ill, but he has seen how a virus can bring Western economies to their knees, who is to say he wont release one of those

[Alf]

That's a 50,000 word post right there Oliver, it would essentially be impossible to go into. All I can really say is, with enough study of sociology, politics and history it becomes impossible to ignore that the very roots of "democracy", and really all politics, stretching back until the dawn of any sort of written record keeping, is unquestionably paternalistic, misogynistic and classist (and in my opinion the class system itself, and certainly the entire system of free market capitalism, is rooted in male instinct if you follow the thread far enough).

Not to be ironically classist about it but... It's not really something that it's possible to go into without vast amounts of background reading.

Once you see it though it becomes painfully obvious.lANcZ8vhOjE

[bots]

It is a bit dramatic Cherie, Russia have struggled more than they thought to even take Ukraine, there's literally zero chance of them staging an effective invasion of Europe let alone the UK (the hardest part of Europe to invade).

Unless you're talking about nukes but we're obviously nowhere near that sort of worry yet. The important thing to remember on that front is that despite what the tabloids say... Putin is not insane. Power hungry and without conscience, maybe, but he hasn't "gone mad", its a completely false narrative.

unfortunately, i rate your position as somewhat optimistic. Nukes and other devastating ordinance could easily come into play from russia. Nukes are not the only catastrophic weapons they have available

[glib]

It is a bit dramatic Cherie, Russia have struggled more than they thought to even take Ukraine, there's literally zero chance of them staging an effective invasion of Europe let alone the UK (the hardest part of Europe to invade).

Unless you're talking about nukes but we're obviously nowhere near that sort of worry yet. The important thing to remember on that front is that despite what the tabloids say... Putin is not insane. Power hungry and without conscience, maybe, but he hasn't "gone mad", its a completely false narrative.

Putin isn’t power hungry but has invaded Ukraine to get power over Crimea? Right

[user104658]

unfortunately, i rate your position as somewhat optimistic. Nukes and other devastating ordinance could easily come into play from russia. Nukes are not the only catastrophic weapons they have availableThe point is that using them on the UK or any EU country would essentially be a Russian murder-suicide of the entire planet. He can't survive it and Russia can't survive it, so the only scenarios where he does it, are ones where he has nothing left to lose OR if he was indeed insane.

[user104658]

Putin isn’t power hungry but has invaded Ukraine to get power over Crimea? RightRead it again I think you missed a full stop.

[glib]

Read it again I think you missed a full stop.

Sorry have dyslexia

[Cherie]

Niamh will determine when it’s closed, although she seems to enjoy watching drama unfold

Leave our Neem alone :fist:

[Oliver_W]

We could all be refugees soon except there will be no where to run to the way things are panning out

Depends really. If the migrants from the middle east bring their culture with them, it won't be long until there's an ISIS here too.

Though you were probably referring to nuclear war :joker:

[Cherie]

Depends really. If the migrants from the middle east bring their culture with them, it won't be long until there's an ISIS here too.

Though you were probably referring to nuclear war :joker:

Nuclear, Biological, chemical...I feel Putin has spent the last two year not only putting on lockdown lbs but plotting

[Oliver_W]

Nuclear, Biological, chemical...I feel Putin has spent the last two year not only putting on lockdown lbs but plotting

Depending on who you ask he's either insane or cunning, conniving or impulsive, sick and dying or just power hungry, or the latest in the long line of Literally Hitlers :joker: I'm not sure how much time he's spent planning all this, but I'm still not sure if it'll be over soonish, create a new "crappy status quo" that drags on for ages and doesn't really touch us, or if it will end us all...

[bots]

somebody needs to coat putins underpants in nerve agent