Censorship - Have we become the Whitehouse era? (ironically)

[Swan]

Anything, everything, offence.....Banned/Cancelled

She tried to ban everything she didn't like, the epitome of Right wing politics in the 60's/70's/80's.

She was a ****head, granted. But her work is still being done, and ironically, spearheaded by the hard left!

I studied the censorship of video nasties, free speech, be free to watch and say what you like (with in reason).

Yes we progress, but free speech is dying, Mary would be proud!

[bots]

yeah, i think mary would be very happy with how things have gone since her time

[Cherie]

Funny how the wheel turns really, these would be her days for sure

[Beso]

Theres not much being cancelled on the TV these days, so no. I dont think we are

[The Slim Reaper]

Just out of curiosity, what exactly have the hard left cancelled?

You don't think the far right and it's government, with all of the power in the country have cancelled anything or is supressing speech in anyway?

[Oliver_W]

While people do seem to be following her example in trying to "cancel" things or people they disagree with, they're rarely successful tbh.

Like, the hatemob is always coming for JK Rowling whenever she points out that men (including transwomen) and women aren't exactly the same, but Wozarding World films and games are still coming out, the tourist traps are popular as ever... Dave Chapelle and Ricky Gervais just either ignore or mock people who come for them ...

offhand I can't even think of anyone who's been actively "canceled" by the online hatemobs, but it might feel like it happens if you read too much twitter or trash articles.

[Niamh.]

While people do seem to be following her example in trying to "cancel" things or people they disagree with, they're rarely successful tbh.

Like, the hatemob is always coming for JK Rowling whenever she points out that men (including transwomen) and women aren't exactly the same, but Wozarding World films and games are still coming out, the tourist traps are popular as ever... Dave Chapelle and Ricky Gervais just either ignore or mock people who come for them ...

offhand I can't even think of anyone who's been actively "canceled" by the online hatemobs, but it might feel like it happens if you read too much twitter or trash articles.

Kathleen Stock, Maya Forstater, Erika Christakis, Dr. Nicholas Christakis, Bret Weinstein (no relation to Harvey :p )

[The Slim Reaper]

So no ones been cancelled, and multi-millionaires and billionaires still have careers after being questioned on things they've said?

Wasn't she a christian fundie who's idea around cancellation was anything that went against a semi-literal reading of the bible?

Julian Assange has been imprisoned for doing journalism, but omg I can't believe someone called Jim Davidson a racist for his chalky character, the left is out of control.

There is a reason you're all being fed this complete fcuking nonsense whilst the government is destroying your living conditions, your freedoms, and your actual rights, not the inconsequential pretend ones that decree no one in power should ever be challenged about anything.

[user104658]

There is a reason you're all being fed this complete fcuking nonsense whilst the government is destroying your living conditions, your freedoms, and your actual rights, not the inconsequential pretend ones that decree no one in power should ever be challenged about anything.

How can you see this, but NOT see that the most affected by exactly what you're talking about are those who are armpit-deep in naval gazing identity politics and hyperindividualism? Like yes... I agree with you... I agree that it's deliberate... But you seem a little shy about telling off those whose attention has been the most successfully diverted inwards. I feel like you've been open enough about the reason for that to be fair (a hesitancy to risk being inadvertently "associated with the wrong side/actual bigots") but I also feel like it significantly erodes the point you're trying to make.

[Oliver_W]

Kathleen Stock, Maya Forstater, Erika Christakis, Dr. Nicholas Christakis, Bret Weinstein (no relation to Harvey :p )

Okay I stand corrected!

[The Slim Reaper]

How can you see this, but NOT see that the most affected by exactly what you're talking about are those who are armpit-deep in naval gazing identity politics and hyperindividualism? Like yes... I agree with you... I agree that it's deliberate... But you seem a little shy about telling off those whose attention has been the most successfully diverted inwards. I feel like you've been open enough about the reason for that to be fair (a hesitancy to risk being inadvertently "associated with the wrong side/actual bigots") but I also feel like it significantly erodes the point you're trying to make.

This whole cancellation bs is culture war/identity politics that doesn't actually exist.

I'm not really sure what you mean when it comes to "the most affected."

Who do you think I should be telling off and for what reason, exactly? No need to use language around the margins, just say.

The last part is pure projection. If you think I wouldn't say something because it wouldn't be popular, then that's just weird. About 95% of my opinions on here are in direct opposition to the forum orthodoxy.

[bots]

i think there has been an insidious change in society that has happened gradually over time. To the point where the only way you can identify it is by looking to the past and comparing to now. To many times I hear the statement, you would never get away with that today. If that's not censorship, i don't know what is

[Niamh.]

i think there has been an insidious change in society that has happened gradually over time. To the point where the only way you can identify it is by looking to the past and comparing to now. To many times I hear the statement, you would never get away with that today. If that's not censorship, i don't know what is

Have you read The Coddling of the American Mind BOTS? It's a really interesting read.

[The Slim Reaper]

i think there has been an insidious change in society that has happened gradually over time. To the point where the only way you can identify it is by looking to the past and comparing to now. To many times I hear the statement, you would never get away with that today. If that's not censorship, i don't know what is

I'm not sure that is an even remotely accurate description of censorship. Otherwise folks that say things such as "back in my day we didn't..." could also be classed as censoring. the statement "you'd never get away with owning slaves today" is not censorship of slavery.

It's also based on the false premise that everything that happened in the past was better. People still have exactly the same rights to be bigots, nice people, or anything in between, the only difference is that people might have to justify it these days.

Most of the people that have been called cancelled have bigger platforms than ever, either in newspapers, tv, or with regular appearances on rogans podcasts.

[Niamh.]

I'm not sure that is an even remotely accurate description of censorship. Otherwise folks that say things such as "back in my day we didn't..." could also be classed as censoring. the statement "you'd never get away with owning slaves today" is not censorship of slavery.

It's also based on the false premise that everything that happened in the past was better. People still have exactly the same rights to be bigots, nice people, or anything in between, the only difference is that people might have to justify it these days.

Most of the people that have been called cancelled have bigger platforms than ever, either in newspapers, tv, or with regular appearances on rogans podcasts.

The examples I gave of people who had been cancelled may have platforms now but being on platforms wasn't their job, most of them were College professors

[The Slim Reaper]

The examples I gave of people who had been cancelled may have platforms now but being on platforms wasn't their job, most of them were College professors

Well Weinstein, for example, has also been a staple on the alt-right media circuit for years. He resigned from his job as a professor.

I don't know all of the names on your list but I know some resigned and one actually won a tribunal for being fired, which shows that cancellation isn't as final as suggested. People are fired incorrectly and win tribunals everyday

[Niamh.]

Well Weinstein, for example, has also been a staple on the alt-right media circuit for years. He resigned from his job as a professor.

I don't know all of the names on your list but I know some resigned and one actually won a tribunal for being fired, which shows that cancellation isn't as final as suggested. People are fired incorrectly and win tribunals everyday

He resigned from his job as professor because he had to resign for his own safety and because his "cancellation" was preventing him from being able to do his job. What do you think about that whole Evergreen story? Also, what do you mean he's a staple on the alt right media circuit? Do you mean he is alt right or alt right people use his story to push their agenda?

Regarding Maya Forstater, yes she won her tribunal that doesn't cancel her cancellation, you asked for examples and I gave them to you :shrug:

[The Slim Reaper]

He resigned from his job as professor because he had to resign for his own safety and because his "cancellation" was preventing him from being able to do his job. What do you think about that whole Evergreen story? Also, what do you mean he's a staple on the alt right media circuit? Do you mean he is alt right or alt right people use his story to push their agenda?

Regarding Maya Forstater, yes she won her tribunal that doesn't cancel her cancellation, you asked for examples and I gave them to you :shrug:

He's telling you he resigned for his own safety. Either he was cancelled or he wasn't. You can't cancel yourself then cry that you've been cancelled. He had his job until he decided he didn't - he wasn't cancelled. No I meant that he's very popular on alt-right media, making many regular appearances. He's like a Dave Rubin with brains - he calls himself progressive or liberal, but isn't. He uses the self labelling to attack the positions he says he holds. It's a great little earner for the previous members of the self titled IDW group.

I don't know whether or not he is alt-right, I know he isn't progressive but pretends he is. He was a trump supporter.


Resigning isn't being cancelled. If you worked in a shop and all of your co-workers said you should resign, but the management didn't, have you been cancelled?

If you've been fired, then won at tribunal then maybe cancel culture isn't really the all consuming power it's being made out to be. As stated previously, people in all walks of life, lose their jobs for reasons not deemed legal. This shows that the system works (to a degree), way more than it proves anything about so-called cancellation.

[bots]

i cant believe that slim is arguing against the fact that we are being censored more these days when laws have been passed that we can now only protest quietly and thats but 1 small example

[The Slim Reaper]

i cant believe that slim is arguing against the fact that we are being censored more these days when laws have been passed that we can now only protest quietly and thats but 1 small example

No, I argued your definition of censorship was incorrect. The thread is about the hard left cancelling everything, but the governmental infringements on liberties and speech is authoritarian right. Two different things and issues altogether.

My first post in the thread makes a similar point as yours re the government.

[Cherie]

What about Kathleen Stock, I suppose technically you could say she wasn't cancelled but had to run the gamut of protesting students and abusive graffitti to work every day, I dont know in whose world that is acceptable for having an opinion on womens rights

[Niamh.]

He's telling you he resigned for his own safety. Either he was cancelled or he wasn't. You can't self cancel yourself then cry that you've been cancelled. He had his job until he decided he didn't - he wasn't cancelled. No I meant that he's very popular on alt-right media, making many regular appearances. He's like a Dave Rubin with brains - he calls himself progressive or liberal, but isn't. He uses the self labelling to attack the positions he says he holds. It's a great little earner for the previous members of the self titled IDW group.

I don't know whether or not he is alt-right, I know he isn't progressive but pretends he is. He was a trump supporter.


Resigning isn't being cancelled. If you worked in a shop and all of your co-workers said you should resign, but the management didn't, have you been cancelled?

If you've been fired, then won at tribunal then maybe cancel culture isn't really the all consuming power it's being made out to be. As stated previously, people in all walks of life, lose their jobs for reasons not deemed legal. This shows that the system works (to a degree), way more than it proves anything about so-called cancellation.

I've read a fair bit about the Evergreen thing, watched video footage etc, it's not just his words that I'm believing. He was seriously harassed there and the College really let him down imo. I disagree with you that making someones life so uncomfortable that they resign isn't a form of cancellation

Being able to bounce back or get some form of life back afterwards doesn't mean that cancel culture isn't a thing. I've personally never stated that it's all consuming or can never be rectified

[The Slim Reaper]

I've read a fair bit about the Evergreen thing, watched video footage etc, it's not just his words that I'm believing. He was seriously harassed there and the College really let him down imo. I disagree with you that making someones life so uncomfortable that they resign isn't a form of cancellation

Being able to bounce back or get some form of life back afterwards doesn't mean that cancel culture isn't a thing. I've personally never stated that it's all consuming or can never be rectified

It's pretty difficult to discuss cancelled folks who haven't been cancelled, but it's ok to disagree. We've both put our views forward and now there is nowhere else to go.

[Niamh.]

It's pretty difficult to discuss cancelled folks who haven't been cancelled, but it's ok to disagree. We've both put our views forward and now there is nowhere else to go.

:laugh: Fair enough

[The Slim Reaper]

:laugh: Fair enough

Just to add, Bret Weinstein was regularly pumping out anti-vax mis-information using his platform, directly leading to the direct death of at least one of his audience members, so these are the kind of people you end up being on the side of when you go down these rabbit-holes. Taking anything someone like Weinstein says, at face value, is a risk.

[Niamh.]

Just to add, Bret Weinstein was regularly pumping out anti-vax mis-information using his platform, directly leading to the direct death of at least one of his audience members, so these are the kind of people you end up being on the side of when you go down these rabbit-holes. Taking anything someone like Weinstein says, at face value, is a risk.

I'm not sure what his opinions on Vaccines have to do with what happened at Evergreen though. There's plenty of people who have opinions on vaccines that I disagree with, even people I know in real life, it doesn't make them alt right or bad people in general though, most of them really believe what they're saying and aren't trying to harm anyone

[The Slim Reaper]

I'm not sure what his opinions on Vaccines have to do with what happened at Evergreen though. There's plenty of people who have opinions on vaccines that I disagree with, even people I know in real life, it doesn't make them alt right or bad people in general though, most of them really believe what they're saying and aren't trying to harm anyone

I didn't say he was alt-right :shrug: I even said I don't know what his beliefs are, just that he's not what he's presenting them to be. I did say taking anything he says at face value is a risk.

It just so happened that the anti-vax nonsense was popular with his extremely right wing audience. He's an evolutionary biologist with a platform, so his anti-vax grift is not the same as any of our friends also being anti-vax.

I guess cancelling the lives of his audience is ok though, but cancelling his own job is not :laugh:

[Niamh.]

I didn't say he was alt-right :shrug: I even said I don't know what his beliefs are, just that he's not what he's presenting them to be. I did say taking anything he says at face value is a risk.

It just so happened that the anti-vax nonsense was popular with his extremely right wing audience. He's an evolutionary biologist with a platform, so his anti-vax grift is not the same as any of our friends also being anti-vax.

I guess cancelling the lives of his audience is ok though, but cancelling his own job is not :laugh:

https://i.gifer.com/O3BQ.gif

[Beso]

Cancel the platforms, not the people.

[Beso]

Chalky was an act, an act where a white man did a very good impression of a black man without the need for blackface. There was nothing racist about it. There is nothing racist in a white man doing a black mans voice.

It's ridiculous.

[The Slim Reaper]

Chalky was an act, an act where a white man did a very good impression of a black man without the need for blackface. There was nothing racist about it. There is nothing racist in a white man doing a black mans voice.

It's ridiculous.

He was a caricature of the stereotypical thick black man from times past. It wasn't just a voice.

Speers on the roof rack...

AjmsRsWl7jU

[Alf]

He was a caricature of the stereotypical thick black man from times past. It wasn't just a voice.

Speers on the roof rack...

AjmsRsWl7jUAnd Trigger in Only fools and horses was a caricature of a thick White man, what's your point?

[jet]

Just out of curiosity, what exactly have the hard left cancelled?

You don't think the far right and it's government, with all of the power in the country have cancelled anything or is supressing speech in anyway?

The conservatives are seeking to reform Labours old Human Rights Act...I hope this goes ahead...

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10653643/Free-speech-legal-supremacy-Dominic-Raab-unveils-plan-stop-democratic-debate.html#reader-comments
March 2022

Free speech to get legal supremacy, says Dominic Raab as he unveils plan to stop democratic debate being 'whittled away by wokery' in major victory over cancel culture
Deputy PM Raab warns democratic debate is being 'whittled away by wokery'
He says that the principle of free speech will become a legal 'trump card' after unveiling plans to replace Labour's Human Rights Act with a British Bill of Rights
The changes will protect media freedom and allow press to expose wrongdoing


Justice Secretary Mr Raab exclusively told the Mail about the proposed reforms
The proposed reforms will seek to reverse the corrosion of long-held freedoms by ‘cancel culture’, political correctness and creeping moves towards European-style privacy by the back door driven by judicial interpretations of the Human Rights Act, he says.
The changes will protect media freedom, allowing the Press to continue to expose corruption and wrongdoing, and allow individuals to speak their minds.
The landmark proposals, currently out for consultation, are expected to be included in the Queen’s Speech later this year.
Mr Raab, who is also the Justice Secretary, told the Mail: ‘Effectively, free speech will be given what will amount to “trump card” status in a whole range of areas……
……Harry Potter author JK Rowling and other public figures have been vilified for voicing concerns over an erosion of women’s rights by the transgender lobby, for example.
Only this week, the creator of comedy series Father Ted Graham Linehan declared that he had been ‘thoroughly cancelled’ and that trans activists had cost him his family and his marriage. Recent years have seen cancel culture extend across society, with growing numbers attacked in public life, on university campuses and on social media for expressing their views…etc…..

[user104658]

This whole cancellation bs is culture war/identity politics that doesn't actually exist.

I'm not really sure what you mean when it comes to "the most affected."

Who do you think I should be telling off and for what reason, exactly? No need to use language around the margins, just say.

The last part is pure projection. If you think I wouldn't say something because it wouldn't be popular, then that's just weird. About 95% of my opinions on here are in direct opposition to the forum orthodoxy.

I did say. The people who are armpit-deep in identity politics and hyperindividualism. This isn't some thinly veiled euphemism... Proponents of hyperindividualism are a quite clear cultural group. This is the best way I can put it. Others might call it "the woke left" - I'm actually trying to be more accurate.

[The Slim Reaper]

The conservatives are seeking to reform Labours old Human Rights Act...I hope this goes ahead...

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10653643/Free-speech-legal-supremacy-Dominic-Raab-unveils-plan-stop-democratic-debate.html#reader-comments
March 2022

Free speech to get legal supremacy, says Dominic Raab as he unveils plan to stop democratic debate being 'whittled away by wokery' in major victory over cancel culture
Deputy PM Raab warns democratic debate is being 'whittled away by wokery'
He says that the principle of free speech will become a legal 'trump card' after unveiling plans to replace Labour's Human Rights Act with a British Bill of Rights
The changes will protect media freedom and allow press to expose wrongdoing


Justice Secretary Mr Raab exclusively told the Mail about the proposed reforms
The proposed reforms will seek to reverse the corrosion of long-held freedoms by ‘cancel culture’, political correctness and creeping moves towards European-style privacy by the back door driven by judicial interpretations of the Human Rights Act, he says.
The changes will protect media freedom, allowing the Press to continue to expose corruption and wrongdoing, and allow individuals to speak their minds.
The landmark proposals, currently out for consultation, are expected to be included in the Queen’s Speech later this year.
Mr Raab, who is also the Justice Secretary, told the Mail: ‘Effectively, free speech will be given what will amount to “trump card” status in a whole range of areas……
……Harry Potter author JK Rowling and other public figures have been vilified for voicing concerns over an erosion of women’s rights by the transgender lobby, for example.
Only this week, the creator of comedy series Father Ted Graham Linehan declared that he had been ‘thoroughly cancelled’ and that trans activists had cost him his family and his marriage. Recent years have seen cancel culture extend across society, with growing numbers attacked in public life, on university campuses and on social media for expressing their views…etc…..

Do you have any opinions of your own to add, Jet? You do know that raab is on record as not actually supporting the human rights act at all, and doesn't even believe in economic and social rights?

We already discussed Linehan. His wife left him and he called that being cancelled. JK is a billionaire with a public and major platform. How in your opinion is that being cancelled?

[bots]

unfortunately, this tory government have a record of not being trustworthy, they may say it's for a particular reason and it's actually for some completely different agenda. Raab is among the worst of them too

[jet]

Do you have any opinions of your own to add, Jet? You do know that raab is on record as not actually supporting the human rights act at all, and doesn't even believe in economic and social rights?

We already discussed Linehan. His wife left him and he called that being cancelled. JK is a billionaire with a public and major platform. How in your opinion is that being cancelled?

I gave my opinion- that I hope Dominic Raabs proposal of reforming the Labours Human Rights act goes ahead.

[The Slim Reaper]

I did say. The people who are armpit-deep in identity politics and hyperindividualism. This isn't some thinly veiled euphemism... Proponents of hyperindividualism are a quite clear cultural group. This is the best way I can put it. Others might call it "the woke left" - I'm actually trying to be more accurate.



Your initial premise isn't wholly accurate from where I see it. For starters, identity politics isn't owned or even mainly used by the "woke left."

The clearest example is that Brexit itself was fought on identity political grounds, for the hyper-individualistic benefits of the few who pushed it, so we can discuss all areas of HI or we can't, but I reject the notion that the left is HI, whereas a country full of tories isn't.

I know it's difficult because I think you're speaking about a very specific area that i just refuse to get into on the forum, because as far as I've seen nothing good ever comes from these discussions. What I will say, is that if you want to go into these areas in pm, then I'd be open to that.

[Beso]

Bloody just say what you think a woman is kiers.

[Swan]

The Simpson is now Pin Protected on SKY. The fear of offence is driving draconian like censorship right now.

South Park, which airs at 10pm on Comedy Central, a Viacom owned company, now bleeps out the word "sh!t", it never used to. Meanwhile, on MTV, just now, was Rhianna dancing in a thong.

Malcolm in the Middle is also censored when shown on 4 Music.

Weird times.

[Mystic Mock]

Controversially I feel like we're getting closer to it in entertainment than people would like to admit.

Like when I watched the 90's Blade Movie recently they were having more violent action scenes and dialogue that were less safe than say the MCU or a lot of other Movies that I've watched in recent years.

And don't even get me started on American Live Action TV on how soft that **** has become.

I don't know if we're fully in the Mary Whitehouse era yet though, as I feel like society still has people be allowed to do certain things that she would not have approved of.

[Mystic Mock]

Just out of curiosity, what exactly have the hard left cancelled?

You don't think the far right and it's government, with all of the power in the country have cancelled anything or is supressing speech in anyway?

The far Right definitely got Holby City cancelled imo.

[Mystic Mock]

i think there has been an insidious change in society that has happened gradually over time. To the point where the only way you can identify it is by looking to the past and comparing to now. To many times I hear the statement, you would never get away with that today. If that's not censorship, i don't know what is

Well because by and large we should being more progressive and open to new things, not making people's lives more limited than they were 20 years ago.

[Mystic Mock]

The conservatives are seeking to reform Labours old Human Rights Act...I hope this goes ahead...

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10653643/Free-speech-legal-supremacy-Dominic-Raab-unveils-plan-stop-democratic-debate.html#reader-comments
March 2022

Free speech to get legal supremacy, says Dominic Raab as he unveils plan to stop democratic debate being 'whittled away by wokery' in major victory over cancel culture
Deputy PM Raab warns democratic debate is being 'whittled away by wokery'
He says that the principle of free speech will become a legal 'trump card' after unveiling plans to replace Labour's Human Rights Act with a British Bill of Rights
The changes will protect media freedom and allow press to expose wrongdoing


Justice Secretary Mr Raab exclusively told the Mail about the proposed reforms
The proposed reforms will seek to reverse the corrosion of long-held freedoms by ‘cancel culture’, political correctness and creeping moves towards European-style privacy by the back door driven by judicial interpretations of the Human Rights Act, he says.
The changes will protect media freedom, allowing the Press to continue to expose corruption and wrongdoing, and allow individuals to speak their minds.
The landmark proposals, currently out for consultation, are expected to be included in the Queen’s Speech later this year.
Mr Raab, who is also the Justice Secretary, told the Mail: ‘Effectively, free speech will be given what will amount to “trump card” status in a whole range of areas……
……Harry Potter author JK Rowling and other public figures have been vilified for voicing concerns over an erosion of women’s rights by the transgender lobby, for example.
Only this week, the creator of comedy series Father Ted Graham Linehan declared that he had been ‘thoroughly cancelled’ and that trans activists had cost him his family and his marriage. Recent years have seen cancel culture extend across society, with growing numbers attacked in public life, on university campuses and on social media for expressing their views…etc…..

The only thing I feel that the right need to be careful on is how far will this new law go if it gets passed through?

For example if someone said "I feel like raping someone tomorrow" because they haven't actually raped anyone, does that give that person a pass? Because I wouldn't feel comfortable with people getting away with saying stuff like that and being able to use the "free speech" card.