Log in

View Full Version : Gilead States of America


The Slim Reaper
03-05-2022, 09:59 AM
https://www.politico.com/news/2022/05/02/supreme-court-abortion-draft-opinion-00029473

Supreme Court has voted to overturn abortion rights, draft opinion shows

"We hold that Roe and Casey must be overruled," Justice Alito writes in an initial majority draft circulated inside the court.

The Supreme Court has voted to strike down the landmark Roe v. Wade decision, according to an initial draft majority opinion written by Justice Samuel Alito circulated inside the court and obtained by POLITICO.

The draft opinion is a full-throated, unflinching repudiation of the 1973 decision which guaranteed federal constitutional protections of abortion rights and a subsequent 1992 decision – Planned Parenthood v. Casey – that largely maintained the right. “Roe was egregiously wrong from the start,” Alito writes.

“We hold that Roe and Casey must be overruled,” he writes in the document, labeled as the “Opinion of the Court.” “It is time to heed the Constitution and return the issue of abortion to the people’s elected representatives.”

Deliberations on controversial cases have in the past been fluid. Justices can and sometimes do change their votes as draft opinions circulate and major decisions can be subject to multiple drafts and vote-trading, sometimes until just days before a decision is unveiled. The court’s holding will not be final until it is published, likely in the next two months.

The immediate impact of the ruling as drafted in February would be to end a half-century guarantee of federal constitutional protection of abortion rights and allow each state to decide whether to restrict or ban abortion. It’s unclear if there have been subsequent changes to the draft.

No draft decision in the modern history of the court has been disclosed publicly while a case was still pending. The unprecedented revelation is bound to intensify the debate over what was already the most controversial case on the docket this term.

The draft opinion offers an extraordinary window into the justices’ deliberations in one of the most consequential cases before the court in the last five decades. Some court-watchers predicted that the conservative majority would slice away at abortion rights without flatly overturning a 49-year-old precedent. The draft shows that the court is looking to reject Roe’s logic and legal protections.

“Roe was egregiously wrong from the start. Its reasoning was exceptionally weak, and the decision has had damaging consequences. And far from bringing about a national settlement of the abortion issue, Roe and Casey have enflamed debate and deepened division.”

Justice Samuel Alito in an initial draft majority opinion

A person familiar with the court’s deliberations said that four of the other Republican-appointed justices – Clarence Thomas, Neil Gorsuch, Brett Kavanaugh and Amy Coney Barrett – had voted with Alito in the conference held among the justices after hearing oral arguments in December, and that line-up remains unchanged as of this week.

The three Democratic-appointed justices – Stephen Breyer, Sonia Sotomayor and Elena Kagan – are working on one or more dissents, according to the person. How Chief Justice John Roberts will ultimately vote, and whether he will join an already written opinion or draft his own, is unclear.

The document, labeled as a first draft of the majority opinion, includes a notation that it was circulated among the justices on Feb. 10. If the Alito draft is adopted, it would rule in favor of Mississippi in the closely watched case over that state’s attempt to ban most abortions after 15 weeks of pregnancy.

A Supreme Court spokesperson declined to comment or make another representative of the court available to answer questions about the draft document.

POLITICO received a copy of the draft opinion from a person familiar with the court’s proceedings in the Mississippi case along with other details supporting the authenticity of the document. The draft opinion runs 98 pages, including a 31-page appendix of historical state abortion laws. The document is replete with citations to previous court decisions, books and other authorities, and includes 118 footnotes. The appearances and timing of this draft are consistent with court practice.

The disclosure of Alito’s draft majority opinion – a rare breach of Supreme Court secrecy and tradition around its deliberations – comes as all sides in the abortion debate are girding for the ruling. Speculation about the looming decision has been intense since the December oral arguments indicated a majority was inclined to support the Mississippi law.

Under longstanding court procedures, justices hold preliminary votes on cases shortly after argument and assign a member of the majority to write a draft of the court’s opinion. The draft is often amended in consultation with other justices, and in some cases the justices change their votes altogether, creating the possibility that the current alignment on Dobbs v. Jackson Women’s Health Organization could change.

The chief justice typically assigns majority opinions when he is in the majority. When he is not, that decision is typically made by the most senior justice in the majority.

‘Exceptionally weak’
A George W. Bush appointee who joined the court in 2006, Alito argues that the 1973 abortion rights ruling was an ill-conceived and deeply flawed decision that invented a right mentioned nowhere in the Constitution and unwisely sought to wrench the contentious issue away from the political branches of government.

Alito’s draft ruling would overturn a decision by the New Orleans-based 5th Circuit Court of Appeals that found the Mississippi law ran afoul of Supreme Court precedent by seeking to effectively ban abortions before viability.

Roe’s “survey of history ranged from the constitutionally irrelevant to the plainly incorrect,” Alito continues, adding that its reasoning was “exceptionally weak,” and that the original decision has had “damaging consequences.”

“The inescapable conclusion is that a right to abortion is not deeply rooted in the Nation’s history and traditions,” Alito writes.

Alito approvingly quotes a broad range of critics of the Roe decision. He also points to liberal icons such as the late Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg and Harvard Law Professor Laurence Tribe, who at certain points in their careers took issue with the reasoning in Roe or its impact on the political process.

Alito’s skewering of Roe and the endorsement of at least four other justices for that unsparing critique is also a measure of the court’s rightward turn in recent decades. Roe was decided 7-2 in 1973, with five Republican appointees joining two justices nominated by Democratic presidents.

The overturning of Roe would almost immediately lead to stricter limits on abortion access in large swaths of the South and Midwest, with about half of the states set to immediately impose broad abortion bans. Any state could still legally allow the procedure.

“The Constitution does not prohibit the citizens of each State from regulating or prohibiting abortion,” the draft concludes. “Roe and Casey arrogated that authority. We now overrule those decisions and return that authority to the people and their elected representatives.”

The draft contains the type of caustic rhetorical flourishes Alito is known for and that has caused Roberts, his fellow Bush appointee, some discomfort in the past.

At times, Alito’s draft opinion takes an almost mocking tone as it skewers the majority opinion in Roe, written by Justice Harry Blackmun, a Richard Nixon appointee who died in 1999.

“Roe expressed the ‘feel[ing]’ that the Fourteenth Amendment was the provision that did the work, but its message seemed to be that the abortion right could be found somewhere in the Constitution and that specifying its exact location was not of paramount importance,” Alito writes.

Alito declares that one of the central tenets of Roe, the “viability” distinction between fetuses not capable of living outside the womb and those which can, “makes no sense.”

In several passages, he describes doctors and nurses who terminate pregnancies as “abortionists.”

When Roberts voted with liberal jurists in 2020 to block a Louisiana law imposing heavier regulations on abortion clinics, his solo concurrence used the more neutral term “abortion providers.” In contrast, Justice Clarence Thomas used the word “abortionist” 25 times in a solo dissent in the same case.

Alito’s use of the phrase “egregiously wrong” to describe Roe echoes language Mississippi Solicitor General Scott Stewart used in December in defending his state’s ban on abortions after 15 weeks of pregnancy. The phrase was also contained in an opinion Kavanaugh wrote as part of a 2020 ruling that jury convictions in criminal cases must be unanimous.

In that opinion, Kavanaugh labeled two well-known Supreme Court decisions “egregiously wrong when decided”: the 1944 ruling upholding the detention of Japanese Americans during World War II, Korematsu v. United States, and the 1896 decision that blessed racial segregation under the rubric of “separate but equal,” Plessy v. Ferguson.

The high court has never formally overturned Korematsu, but did repudiate the decision in a 2018 ruling by Roberts that upheld then-President Donald Trump’s travel ban policy.

The legacy of Plessy v. Ferguson
Plessy remained the law of the land for nearly six decades until the court overturned it with the Brown v. Board of Education school desegregation ruling in 1954.

Quoting Kavanaugh, Alito writes of Plessy: “It was ‘egregiously wrong,’ on the day it was decided.”

Alito’s draft opinion includes, in small type, a list of about two pages’ worth of decisions in which the justices overruled prior precedents – in many instances reaching results praised by liberals.

The implication that allowing states to outlaw abortion is on par with ending legal racial segregation has been hotly disputed. But the comparison underscores the conservative justices’ belief that Roe is so flawed that the justices should disregard their usual hesitations about overturning precedent and wholeheartedly renounce it.

Alito’s draft opinion ventures even further into this racially sensitive territory by observing in a footnote that some early proponents of abortion rights also had unsavory views in favor of eugenics.

“Some such supporters have been motivated by a desire to suppress the size of the African American population,” Alito writes. “It is beyond dispute that Roe has had that demographic effect. A highly disproportionate percentage of aborted fetuses are black.”

Alito writes that by raising the point he isn’t casting aspersions on anyone. “For our part, we do not question the motives of either those who have supported and those who have opposed laws restricting abortion,” he writes.

Alito also addresses concern about the impact the decision could have on public discourse. “We cannot allow our decisions to be affected by any extraneous influences such as concern about the public’s reaction to our work,” Alito writes. “We do not pretend to know how our political system or society will respond to today’s decision overruling Roe and Casey. And even if we could foresee what will happen, we would have no authority to let that knowledge influence our decision.”

In the main opinion in the 1992 Casey decision, Justices Sandra Day O’Connor, Anthony Kennedy and Davis Souter warned that the court would pay a “terrible price” for overruling Roe, despite criticism of the decision from some in the public and the legal community.

“While it has engendered disapproval, it has not been unworkable,” the three justices wrote then. “An entire generation has come of age free to assume Roe‘s concept of liberty in defining the capacity of women to act in society, and to make reproductive decisions; no erosion of principle going to liberty or personal autonomy has left Roe‘s central holding a doctrinal remnant.”

When Dobbs was argued in December, Roberts seemed out of sync with the other conservative justices, as he has been in a number of cases including one challenging the Affordable Care Act.

At the argument session last fall, Roberts seemed to be searching for a way to uphold Mississippi’s 15-week ban without completely abandoning the Roe framework.

“Viability, it seems to me, doesn’t have anything to do with choice. But, if it really is an issue about choice, why is 15 weeks not enough time?” Roberts asked during the arguments. “The thing that is at issue before us today is 15 weeks.”

Nods to conservative colleagues
While Alito’s draft opinion doesn’t cater much to Roberts’ views, portions of it seem intended to address the specific interests of other justices. One passage argues that social attitudes toward out-of-wedlock pregnancies “have changed drastically” since the 1970s and that increased demand for adoption makes abortion less necessary.

Those points dovetail with issues that Barrett – a Trump appointee and the court’s newest member – raised at the December arguments. She suggested laws allowing people to surrender newborn babies on a no-questions-asked basis mean carrying a pregnancy to term doesn’t oblige one to engage in child rearing.

“Why don’t the safe haven laws take care of that problem?” asked Barrett, who adopted two of her seven children.

Much of Alito’s draft is devoted to arguing that widespread criminalization of abortion during the 19th and early 20th century belies the notion that a right to abortion is implied in the Constitution.

The conservative justice attached to his draft a 31-page appendix listing laws passed to criminalize abortion during that period. Alito claims “an unbroken tradition of prohibiting abortion on pain of criminal punishment…from the earliest days of the common law until 1973.”

“Until the latter part of the 20th century, there was no support in American law for a constitutional right to obtain an abortion. Zero. None. No state constitutional provision had recognized such a right,” Alito adds.

Alito’s draft argues that rights protected by the Constitution but not explicitly mentioned in it – so-called unenumerated rights – must be strongly rooted in U.S. history and tradition. That form of analysis seems at odds with several of the court’s recent decisions, including many of its rulings backing gay rights.

Liberal justices seem likely to take issue with Alito’s assertion in the draft opinion that overturning Roe would not jeopardize other rights the courts have grounded in privacy, such as the right to contraception, to engage in private consensual sexual activity and to marry someone of the same sex.

“We emphasize that our decision concerns the constitutional right to abortion and no other right,” Alito writes. “Nothing in this opinion should be understood to cast doubt on precedents that do not concern abortion.”

Alito’s draft opinion rejects the idea that abortion bans reflect the subjugation of women in American society. “Women are not without electoral or political power,” he writes. “The percentage of women who register to vote and cast ballots is consistently higher than the percentage of men who do so.”

The Supreme Court remains one of Washington’s most secretive institutions, priding itself on protecting the confidentiality of its internal deliberations.

“At the Supreme Court, those who know don’t talk, and those who talk don’t know,” Ginsburg was fond of saying.

That tight-lipped reputation has eroded somewhat in recent decades due to a series of books by law clerks, law professors and investigative journalists. Some of these authors clearly had access to draft opinions such as the one obtained by POLITICO, but their books emerged well after the cases in question were resolved.

The justices held their final arguments of the current term on Wednesday. The court has set a series of sessions over the next two months to release rulings in its still-unresolved cases, including the Mississippi abortion case.

The Slim Reaper
03-05-2022, 10:00 AM
I didn't realise how long the article was when I was copying, so apologies for the essay.

Niamh.
03-05-2022, 10:04 AM
I've been saying this about the States for the last couple of years, the roll back of women's rights over there is terrifying and to make it worse they're being taken away on both "sides" women's sports destroyed by the Democrats and Abortion being banned by the right

arista
03-05-2022, 10:04 AM
Yes but not till later on.

A USA Expert said Rich women will be able to travel to another state
so Slim, not so bad

Ref: Times Radio DAB AM

arista
03-05-2022, 10:05 AM
https://www.postapocalypticmedia.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/Screen-Shot-2018-07-05-at-9.04.35-PM.jpg

Cherie
03-05-2022, 10:06 AM
Horrifying

arista
03-05-2022, 10:07 AM
Horrifying


You would be OK
out there
you would travel to another state.

Niamh.
03-05-2022, 10:07 AM
You would be OK
out there
you would travel to another state.


That's not a solution ffs

arista
03-05-2022, 10:08 AM
That's not a solution ffs



Its better than nothing

AnnieK
03-05-2022, 10:08 AM
Yes but not till later on.

A USA Expert said Rich women will be able to travel to another state
so Slim, not so bad

Ref: Times Radio DAB AM

And so the poor people will just have to suck it up and bring a life into the world that they cannot afford to properly care for? Sounds like a great start to life :sad:

Niamh.
03-05-2022, 10:10 AM
And so the poor people will just have to suck it up and bring a life into the world that they cannot afford to properly care for? Sounds like a great start to life :sad:

Maybe all those men campaigning to ban abortion will adopt the babies? :think:

arista
03-05-2022, 10:11 AM
And so the poor people will just have to suck it up and bring a life into the world that they cannot afford to properly care for? Sounds like a great start to life :sad:


Yes the poor women
are stuck.

user104658
03-05-2022, 10:11 AM
I've been saying this about the States for the last couple of years, the roll back of women's rights over there is terrifying and to make it worse they're being taken away on both "sides" women's sports destroyed by the Democrats and Abortion being banned by the right

There's also the complex integration of law and language to contend with (Law, at it's core, is heavily dependent on wording and globally accepted definitions as a starting point). Current debates surrounding the definition of genders and especially gender fluidity makes it far easier to undermine established precedent as legal wording that was clear for decades shifts to being "open to interpretation".

I'm sure I'll be accused of having a one-track-mind here but the simple fact is that it's currently not possible to discuss issues affecting women without discussing the shifting gender paradigm. I strongly suspect there are intentional aspects of this.

arista
03-05-2022, 10:13 AM
https://media-cldnry.s-nbcnews.com/image/upload/t_fit-1000w,f_auto,q_auto:best/newscms/2021_17/3468338/210427-elizabeth-moss-handmaids-tale-jm-1716.jpg

user104658
03-05-2022, 10:14 AM
You would be OK
out there
you would travel to another state.


There are legal mechanisms that make it possible for states to make this illegal (travelling out of state specifically to get an abortion). You could MOVE to another state and have an abortion, but it might not be a good idea to come back, you'd have to permanently relocate or at least relocate for long enough to make it feasible that it was a "genuine move".

Niamh.
03-05-2022, 10:15 AM
There's also the complex integration of law and language to contend with (Law, at it's core, is heavily dependent on wording and globally accepted definitions as a starting point). Current debates surrounding the definition of genders and especially gender fluidity makes it far easier to undermine established precedent as legal wording that was clear for decades shifts to being "open to interpretation".

I'm sure I'll be accused of having a one-track-mind here but the simple fact is that it's currently not possible to discuss issues affecting women without discussing the shifting gender paradigm. I strongly suspect there are intentional aspects of this.

Oh 100% correct about that

arista
03-05-2022, 10:18 AM
There are legal mechanisms that make it possible for states to make this illegal (travelling out of state specifically to get an abortion). You could MOVE to another state and have an abortion, but it might not be a good idea to come back, you'd have to permanently relocate or at least relocate for long enough to make it feasible that it was a "genuine move".


Yes, but this USA lady expert
speaking on Times Radio DAB AM
said the Rich will go across to another state

Maybe they go in the boot?

arista
03-05-2022, 10:18 AM
https://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/7505811d7190374f923558841681a3ad23bbdb82/c=340-0-5660-4000/local/-/media/2017/04/20/USATODAY/USATODAY/636282979846305717-HMT-101-GK-1012-0011rt-f.jpg?width=960

user104658
03-05-2022, 10:23 AM
Yes, but this USA lady expert
speaking on Times Radio DAB AM
said the Rich will go across to another state

Maybe they go in the boot?

Pfffff. The rich will have it done on the hush by their decades-long family doctor in the comfort of their own home.

arista
03-05-2022, 10:27 AM
Yes TS
Fair point

The Slim Reaper
03-05-2022, 10:43 AM
I just can't believe what the far left has made these judges do. The same people that both support and have actioned this, have been adopted as the new champions for women in a different context. :think:

Republicans have been trying to cancel this since it was first made law, and all it required was the right ideology and numbers on the supreme court. If trans people didn't exist, this would have still happened, and there is no evidence to suggest or pretend otherwise.

user104658
03-05-2022, 10:57 AM
I just can't believe what the far left has made these judges do. The same people that both support and have actioned this, have been adopted as the new champions for women in a different context. :think:

Republicans have been trying to cancel this since it was first made law, and all it required was the right ideology and numbers on the supreme court. If trans people didn't exist, this would have still happened, and there is no evidence to suggest or pretend otherwise.

No one said otherwise and no one is in any doubts that it's the Republican/right/(church) elements of US politics who want this to be the case, it also (as always) has nothing to do with the strawman of "trans people not existing". It's about the openness and willingness to discuss issues affecting women without caveats and constraints and that is (without question) being eroded.

bots
03-05-2022, 10:57 AM
i was reading about this yesterday, and it came as quite a surprise to me that the original ruling back in the 70's only applied because a single judge changed their mind at the last minute to allow women to have an abortion.

The point i'm making is that what america is doing now is not something new. There has always been anger at that ruling. America really is quite a **** hole

The Slim Reaper
03-05-2022, 11:20 AM
No one said otherwise and no one is in any doubts that it's the Republican/right/(church) elements of US politics who want this to be the case, it also (as always) has nothing to do with the strawman of "trans people not existing". It's about the openness and willingness to discuss issues affecting women without caveats and constraints and that is (without question) being eroded.

There is complete openness when it comes to discussing issues affecting women; at least 5 judges in this story have had that debate and acted on their opinions and I'm pretty sure all 5 of those judges would align with the tibb majority when it comes to issues around gender. This action is purely about an outdated constitution and ideology, nothing else.

It's boogeymanning gender as a scary future wedge, when the actual reality of what is happening in real time is clear and obvious.

arista
03-05-2022, 11:28 AM
i was reading about this yesterday, and it came as quite a surprise to me that the original ruling back in the 70's only applied because a single judge changed their mind at the last minute to allow women to have an abortion.

The point i'm making is that what America is doing now is not something new. There has always been anger at that ruling. America really is quite a **** hole

Very True
I would call it
The Split Nation

USA state November Elections
can change it all.

arista
03-05-2022, 11:42 AM
Nice of the Old Ladies
on Loose Women ITV1HD
to start with slims debate

Swan
03-05-2022, 12:34 PM
Awful. I can't see this happening though. I feel the centralist's will play a big part, with the left, in not allowing this to go through.

bots
03-05-2022, 12:38 PM
Awful. I can't see this happening though. I feel the centralist's will play a big part, with the left, in not allowing this to go through.

there arent any centrists, its a certainty it will go through with the current configuration of the supreme court

arista
03-05-2022, 12:39 PM
Awful. I can't see this happening though. I feel the centralist's will play a big part, with the left, in not allowing this to go through.

November the State Elections
means it will happen.


Thats why some Left winger leaked it
a rare event.



Handmade Tales
is fantastic to watch.
Clever writer

The Slim Reaper
03-05-2022, 12:42 PM
November the State Elections
means it will happen.


Thats why some Left winger leaked it
a rare event.



Handmade Tales
is fantastic to watch.
Clever writer

You have no idea whether it was a left winger that leaked it - it could actually be an old school genuine conservative that has issues with it.

Unless the name of the person has leaked and I'm not aware.

bots
03-05-2022, 12:44 PM
November the State Elections
means it will happen.


Thats why some Left winger leaked it
a rare event.



Handmade Tales
is fantastic to watch.
Clever writer

this is the federal supreme court making the decision which is heavily biased toward pro life republicans, nothing to do with local elections. If after that, states decide to implement it, then thats their call

Livia
03-05-2022, 12:54 PM
After the US elected Trump I'm not going to be surprised at anything they do.

arista
03-05-2022, 12:57 PM
You have no idea whether it was a left winger that leaked it - it could actually be an old school genuine conservative that has issues with it.

Unless the name of the person has leaked and I'm not aware.


NBC said it was likely a Left winger leak


Trying to get the fight going

Crimson Dynamo
03-05-2022, 01:00 PM
'Right to abortion is not deeply rooted in our history'

Justice Alito said abortion was not mentioned in the US Constitution and the issue
should be decided by politicians.

He wrote: "The inescapable conclusion is that a right to abortion is not deeply rooted in
the nation’s history and traditions.

"The Constitution does not prohibit the citizens of each state from regulating or
prohibiting abortion.

"Roe and Casey arrogated that authority. We now overrule those decisions and return
that authority to the people and their elected representatives."

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/05/03/roe-wade-supreme-court-votes-overthrow-abortion-rights/

Swan
03-05-2022, 01:00 PM
there arent any centrists, its a certainty it will go through with the current configuration of the supreme court

There definitely are centralist's in the US. I know one personally who i speak to every single day. I also game with a lot of people from the US who are left leaning centralist's. They just aren't very vocal in the general scheme of things. But this will see them unite, with the left, against this, im sure.

Crimson Dynamo
03-05-2022, 01:02 PM
NBC said it was likely a Left winger leak


Trying to get the fight going

"Fellow Republican senator Josh Hawley said: "I will say, if this is the court’s
opinion, it’s a heck of an opinion. Voluminously researched, tightly argued, and
morally powerful."

He blamed Democrats for the unprecedented leak from the Supreme Court.


Mr Hawley said: "The Left continues its assault on the Supreme Court with an
unprecedented breach of confidentiality, clearly meant to intimidate."

DT

arista
03-05-2022, 01:03 PM
this is the federal supreme court making the decision which is heavily biased toward pro life republicans, nothing to do with local elections. If after that, states decide to implement it, then thats their call


Yes
but in November
it's expected to change some voters



There are even Pro Life Left Wingers
keeping out of sight, of course

bots
03-05-2022, 01:03 PM
There definitely are centralist's in the US. I know one personally who i speak to every single day. I also game with a lot of people from the US who are left leaning centralist's. They just aren't very vocal in the general scheme of things. But this will see them unite, with the left, against this, im sure.

but this is only about supreme court judges, they make the decision and i think the current make up is 6 pro life to 3 status quo

arista
03-05-2022, 01:04 PM
Thanks LT
for helping Slim.

Livia
03-05-2022, 01:04 PM
'Right to abortion is not deeply rooted in our history'

Justice Alito said abortion was not mentioned in the US Constitution and the issue
should be decided by politicians.

He wrote: "The inescapable conclusion is that a right to abortion is not deeply rooted in
the nation’s history and traditions.

"The Constitution does not prohibit the citizens of each state from regulating or
prohibiting abortion.

"Roe and Casey arrogated that authority. We now overrule those decisions and return
that authority to the people and their elected representatives."

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/05/03/roe-wade-supreme-court-votes-overthrow-abortion-rights/

The right to abortion is not deeply rooted in anyone's history. And that's because, in the words of John Lennon, "woman is the n***** of the world".

Crimson Dynamo
03-05-2022, 01:06 PM
The right to abortion is not deeply rooted in anyone's history. And that's because, in the words of John Lennon, "woman is the n***** of the world".

He also said:

Yellow matter custard
Dripping from a dead dog's eye
Crabalocker fishwife, pornographic priestess
Boy, you've been a naughty girl, you let your knickers down

arista
03-05-2022, 01:08 PM
He also said:

Yellow matter custard
Dripping from a dead dog's eye
Crabalocker fishwife, pornographic priestess
Boy, you've been a naughty girl, you let your knickers down



Great Song
in 5.1 sound

The Slim Reaper
03-05-2022, 01:09 PM
Thanks LT
for helping Slim.

How has he helped me?

arista
03-05-2022, 01:10 PM
How has he helped me?


Showing you
Left Wing Leak

The Slim Reaper
03-05-2022, 01:12 PM
The same court that said it didn't have the power to make people wear masks, suddenly finds the power to force a woman to carry a pregnancy to term - especially if they're poor and in republican states.

The Slim Reaper
03-05-2022, 01:18 PM
Showing you
Left Wing Leak

That's not what he did, he posted a comment by one of the leaders of the January 6th coup attempt, saying there is a LW attack on the court. It could well be a lw leaker for all any of us know, but it could also be a rw leaker, and until it's revealed, none of us know anything more than anyone else.

Niamh.
03-05-2022, 01:18 PM
The same court that said it didn't have the power to make people wear masks, suddenly finds the power to force a woman to carry a pregnancy to term - especially if they're poor and in republican states.

Its disgusting. All these people wanting women to be forced into having these babies they can't afford with no support will also be the first to vilify them when they end up on benefits to look after the children as well

arista
03-05-2022, 01:21 PM
Its Typical for America.

The Slim Reaper
03-05-2022, 01:24 PM
Its disgusting. All these people wanting women to be forced into having these babies they can't afford with no support will also be the first to vilify them when they end up on benefits to look after the children as well

Back street abortions will come back into fashion, which will end up killing and disabling the very people the folks killing this law, are saying they want to save/protect.

Niamh.
03-05-2022, 01:25 PM
It's been said many times around this topic but it seems to be "pro Birth" rather than "pro Life" a lot of these people are

Oliver_W
03-05-2022, 02:08 PM
The current Supreme Court is two-thirds Republican appointed. While at the same time, two-thirds of the SCOTUS women are Dems. A quick bit of research shows that both of the Dem women have at least some history of being anti-abortion before they joined SCOTUS...

The Democrats are closer to our Tories rather than being actually left wing, so what party the President who elevated them belongs to doesn't really mean much tbh.

(I wasn't trying to make any particular point with those numbers, just pondering)

Banning late term abortions is one thing, but banning them altogether? Nah mate.

The Slim Reaper
03-05-2022, 02:24 PM
The current Supreme Court is two-thirds Republican appointed. While at the same time, two-thirds of the SCOTUS women are Dems. A quick bit of research shows that both of the Dem women have at least some history of being anti-abortion before they joined SCOTUS...

The Democrats are closer to our Tories rather than being actually left wing, so what party the President who elevated them belongs to doesn't really mean much tbh.

The bit in bold isn't really true. Even those that are anti-abortion, still view the issue in wider terms than personal religion or ideology. Biden himself is anti-abortion (Catholicism), or he was until very recently, but he also understands it's not his place to hand over control of women's bodies to the government. There's a clear distinction between the judges nominated by both parties.

Judicial appointments are political in nature, so right wing repubs nominate extreme judges, and democrat centrists, nominate centrists.

user104658
03-05-2022, 03:04 PM
The Democrats are closer to our Tories rather than being actually left wing, so what party the President who elevated them belongs to doesn't really mean much tbh.

I see this a lot but the truth really is that the political cultures are just not that comparable... there are aspects of "the divide" that are along the same lines but in truth none of dems/republicans/labour/tories can be equated. America is politically skewed to the right at its very roots because of how it was founded and the constitution... Lockean philosophy is baked right into it and is essentially also at the core of capitalist thinking. What the US declares "lefty" is often barely left of center.

Niamh.
03-05-2022, 03:10 PM
Both our main parties in Ireland are pretty centre

user104658
03-05-2022, 03:19 PM
Both our main parties in Ireland are pretty centre

I used to think the same of the SNP but am coming to see that what I thought was centrism might actually just be populism. Sigh. I used to have plenty of praise but it's honestly been eroded down to "...well, they're still better than the Tories". But TBQFH that's only because I trust them to fight for Scottish interests whereas I know if the Tories had their way they'd drain everything north of Cambridge down south with a straw.

arista
03-05-2022, 03:26 PM
Biden was Live


Moaning

Alf
03-05-2022, 03:52 PM
I didn't realise how long the article was when I was copying, so apologies for the essay.Can't you condense it into one paragraph? Just take out the boring bits.

user104658
03-05-2022, 04:17 PM
Can't you condense it into one paragraph? Just take out the boring bits.

There's nothing in it about Trump or old DVD box sets Alf.

Alf
03-05-2022, 04:19 PM
There's nothing in it about Trump or old DVD box sets Alf.Not worth the time of day then, is it?

user104658
03-05-2022, 04:20 PM
Not worth the time of day then, is it?

A complete waste of half an hour!

Crimson Dynamo
03-05-2022, 04:23 PM
Can't you condense it into one paragraph? Just take out the boring bits.

1. Judges believe abortion is not a constitutional right

2. Ban on abortion is not constitutional

3. States should have final say on abortion

4. States have a right to decide what is and isn’t legal

5. Republicans hold sway in Supreme Court

6. Abortion battle moves from federal to state level

Alf
03-05-2022, 04:32 PM
1. Judges believe abortion is not a constitutional right

2. Ban on abortion is not constitutional

3. States should have final say on abortion

4. States have a right to decide what is and isn’t legal

5. Republicans hold sway in Supreme Court

6. Abortion battle moves from federal to state levelDevolution.

Liam-
03-05-2022, 04:37 PM
‘ The inescapable conclusion is that a right to abortion is not deeply rooted in the Nation’s history and traditions’ is one hell of a warning shot to any group that has ever had to fight for their rights and to be recognised as legitimate people

bots
03-05-2022, 04:40 PM
America isn't deeply rooted, so its a bit of a blinder of a statement .... just do away with it :laugh:

Beso
03-05-2022, 04:41 PM
I used to think the same of the SNP but am coming to see that what I thought was centrism might actually just be populism. Sigh. I used to have plenty of praise but it's honestly been eroded down to "...well, they're still better than the Tories". But TBQFH that's only because I trust them to fight for Scottish interests whereas I know if the Tories had their way they'd drain everything north of Cambridge down south with a straw.


The last bit sounds like the new abortion procedure for millions of americans.

user104658
03-05-2022, 04:44 PM
‘ The inescapable conclusion is that a right to abortion is not deeply rooted in the Nation’s history and traditions’ is one hell of a warning shot to any group that has ever had to fight for their rights and to be recognised as legitimate people

Liam is right, what if this madness spills over from just affecting women and starts affecting groups that people actually care about :worry:.

Liam-
03-05-2022, 04:52 PM
Normally I’d bite at your petty, argumentative attempts to twist my words, but I actually just can’t be bothered today, gonna give myself a day off, you should probably consider doing the same sometime, it must be exhausting being that passive aggressive constantly

user104658
03-05-2022, 04:56 PM
Normally I’d bite at your petty, argumentative attempts to twist my words, but I actually just can’t be bothered today, gonna give myself a day off, you should probably consider doing the same sometime, it must be exhausting being that passive aggressive constantly

What else would I do with my leisure time? :think:

Liam-
03-05-2022, 05:04 PM
Idk, maybe not take enjoyment from antagonising and demeaning people?

The Slim Reaper
03-05-2022, 05:12 PM
Anyone know what the fallacy is called, when someone misrepresents a proposition in order to knock it down?

user104658
03-05-2022, 05:15 PM
Idk, maybe not take enjoyment from antagonising and demeaning people?

If I was doing it for the sake of it (which it might seem because it was made flippantly), sure, but I stand by my point to be honest. I don't see any particular reason to make a thread about abortion rights about other issues, especially not when there's an undertone of "that making it even worse", which there was a little bit.

user104658
03-05-2022, 05:18 PM
Anyone know what the fallacy is called, when someone misrepresents a proposition in order to knock it down?

Your Logical Fallacy Is:

Attacking the Plastic man.

http://gadgetsin.com/uploads/2012/05/homeguard_toy_soldier_styled_book_end_3.jpg

The Slim Reaper
03-05-2022, 05:20 PM
Your Logical Fallacy Is:

Attacking the Plastic man.

http://gadgetsin.com/uploads/2012/05/homeguard_toy_soldier_styled_book_end_3.jpg

I was just asking a question. No one is attacking anyone, well, mostly at least...

Liam-
03-05-2022, 05:23 PM
If I was doing it for the sake of it (which it might seem because it was made flippantly), sure, but I stand by my point to be honest. I don't see any particular reason to make a thread about abortion rights about other issues, especially not when there's an undertone of "that making it even worse", which there was a little bit.

I mean, overturning this Supreme Court decision, on the basis of the words I quoted, is going to set a very clear precedent for all maligned groups of people, women obviously included, if you’ve read anything further into that then that’s most definitely a you problem, you seem to be spiralling, maybe you should take a break from the forum for your own sake?

user104658
03-05-2022, 05:29 PM
I mean, overturning this Supreme Court decision, on the basis of the words I quoted, is going to set a very clear precedent for all maligned groups of people, women obviously included, if you’ve read anything further into that then that’s most definitely a you problem, you seem to be spiralling, maybe you should take a break from the forum for your own sake?

I didn't even say you were wrong, it's just a little bit "all lives matter" isn't it.

Liam-
03-05-2022, 05:33 PM
I didn't even say you were wrong, it's just a little bit "all lives matter" isn't it.

Not at all, just a commentary on the future human rights abuses they’ll take part in with those words as their slogan, if they do manage to get this one through

user104658
03-05-2022, 05:49 PM
Not at all, just a commentary on the future human rights abuses they’ll take part in with those words as their slogan, if they do manage to get this one through

Sure but it's boogeymanning hypothetical issues as a scary future wedge, when the actual reality of what is happening in real time is clear and obvious.

The Slim Reaper
03-05-2022, 06:32 PM
Legal scholars in the states have said this ruling will more than likely have an adverse impact on the rights of others, believing gay marriage is up next.

Your point as I saw it, was that debates around definitions of gender/gender fluidity could potentially make it more likely that legal precedent wiil be undermined, on the very same day that one of the most fundamental rights of body autonomy has been taken away from women, without even a word about gender or gender fluidity. If they've done this without gender debates, why would they even need gender?


You're not making the killer points or gotcha's you believe you are.

user104658
03-05-2022, 10:53 PM
You're not making the killer points or gotcha's you believe you are.

What??!!?!?

arista
04-05-2022, 04:40 AM
https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/10E8C/production/_124406296_guardian0405.png

bots
04-05-2022, 05:21 AM
it highlights another massive fracture in american politics. The problem that they have is that the people living in the cities are completely differently politically oriented to those in rural areas and they are totally incompatible

The Slim Reaper
04-05-2022, 03:23 PM
Sitting republican congressman, currently under federal investigation for sex trafficking minors, and a friend to women.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FR7B9NrVUAAwQIq?format=jpg&name=small

arista
04-05-2022, 03:41 PM
[Sitting republican congressman]

Yes the Daily Show
last week pointed his many crimes out.

bots
04-05-2022, 03:43 PM
Amazon get a lot of stick over workers rights, but here is a positive example

--------------------------------------

Amazon will reimburse staff in the US who travel for a wide range of non-life threatening medical treatments including elective abortions.

A message to Amazon staff said that the firm will pay up to $4,000 (£3,201) in travel expenses each year for treatments not available nearby.

Several other companies have announced plans that ensure staff have access to abortions.

It comes amid rising restrictions for the procedure nationwide.

Amazon's new benefits are effective retroactively from 1 January.

According to the announcement, first reported by Reuters, the new benefits will apply to treatments that are not available inside a 100-mile (161km) radius of an employee's home and for which virtual options are not available.

An Amazon spokesperson confirmed the benefit expansion to the BBC and said it also includes bariatric care, oncology, congenital anomalies from within 24 months of birth, mental health treatments and in-patient substance abuse disorder services.

Amazon is one of the biggest private sector employers in the US, with 1.1m full and part-time workers in the country. It employs people nation-wide, with most workers in California, Texas, and Washington state - home to its global headquarters.

The benefits will be available to all employees enrolled in two different health plans offered by the company, including those working in offices or in warehouses.

The company also offers up to $10,000 (£8,002) for urgent, life-threatening medical issues.

While the expansion of benefits by Amazon is not aimed specifically at allowing access to abortions, it comes at a time when several Republican state governments have passed laws restricting abortion access in their jurisdictions.

Next month, the conservative-leaning Supreme Court will also rule on a case that could overturn Roe v Wade, a 1973 court ruling that legalised abortion in the US.

If the law is overturned, each US state could be permitted to determine its own abortion rules, with more than 20 states expected to limit abortion care or even ban abortions in most cases all together.

In Texas - which has one of the strictest abortion laws in the country and bans the procedure after six weeks of a pregnancy - a recent study found that some 1,400 Texans were traveling out of state for abortions monthly.

Companies including Yelp and Citigroup have recently said they will reimburse employees who travel to circumvent local abortion restrictions.

Citigroup said the policy was "in response to changes in reproductive healthcare laws in certain states".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-61301911

Cherie
04-05-2022, 03:45 PM
Sitting republican congressman, currently under federal investigation for sex trafficking minors, and a friend to women.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FR7B9NrVUAAwQIq?format=jpg&name=small

Nasty piece of work ...newsflash women do not need to be in a relationship to engage in sex and potentially get pregnant...you would think he would know that

arista
04-05-2022, 03:55 PM
Back in 2012

Joe Biden was against Abortion

Cherie
04-05-2022, 03:56 PM
What is a bumble match anyway?

bots
04-05-2022, 03:57 PM
it's a cross party issue. Biden has strong religious beliefs

Niamh.
04-05-2022, 04:00 PM
What is a bumble match anyway?

Isn't bumble an online dating app?

Cherie
04-05-2022, 04:01 PM
Isn't bumble an online dating app?

Oh that makes sense..

Someone needs to take away his phone before he makes a bigger fool of himself

bots
04-05-2022, 04:05 PM
i always think it's a good idea to get the nutters out in the open, then you know what you are dealing with and they have certainly been emboldened now

Niamh.
04-05-2022, 04:07 PM
Sitting republican congressman, currently under federal investigation for sex trafficking minors, and a friend to women.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FR7B9NrVUAAwQIq?format=jpg&name=small

That guy is an actual Politician? Is he saying that women who are protesting against banning abortion............need to get laid? Or have I read that wrong?

Cherie
04-05-2022, 04:15 PM
That guy is an actual Politician? Is he saying that women who are protesting against banning abortion............need to get laid? Or have I read that wrong?

He is saying that the majority of the protesters have no partners, and will never have any, so therefore they should not be protesting as the inference is they will never get pregnant therefore should have no voice

Crimson Dynamo
04-05-2022, 04:16 PM
That guy is an actual Politician? Is he saying that women who are protesting against banning abortion............need to get laid? Or have I read that wrong?

Not quite, he is dragging them for being spoilt middle class munters looking for a cause to make them feel important

The Slim Reaper
04-05-2022, 04:17 PM
That guy is an actual Politician? Is he saying that women who are protesting against banning abortion............need to get laid? Or have I read that wrong?

Your reading comprehension is grand :laugh:

Cherie
04-05-2022, 04:17 PM
i always think it's a good idea to get the nutters out in the open, then you know what you are dealing with and they have certainly been emboldened now

That is true

Cherie
04-05-2022, 04:18 PM
Not quite, he is dragging them for being spoilt middle class munters looking for a cause to make them feel important

That is not how I read it

Crimson Dynamo
04-05-2022, 04:21 PM
That is not how I read it

I think he was saying what I said and what you said

Ultimately it was aimed to belittle, hurt and make him feel better about himself

Not nice

Alf
04-05-2022, 10:34 PM
"I guess you're not ready for this yet but you kids are gonna love it"

Marty McFly aka Calvin Klein
1955

Alf
04-05-2022, 10:47 PM
Kamala is morphing into Greta. Either that or they have the same acting coach.

She can define what a woman is when the agenda suits.


1521963797438779400

Alf
04-05-2022, 11:18 PM
If only this guy was still around and in the spotlight today.



1521961379288207363

arista
05-05-2022, 06:56 AM
Yes Alf
Slim skips Joe Biden's past.

He was against abortions

Cherie
05-05-2022, 07:24 AM
I guess that's why not often seen Kamala was wheeled out for this one

Beso
05-05-2022, 07:52 AM
[Sitting republican congressman]

Yes the Daily Show
last week pointed his many yet to be proven crimes

Fixed for you.

Niamh.
05-05-2022, 09:03 AM
That guy is an actual Politician? Is he saying that women who are protesting against banning abortion............need to get laid? Or have I read that wrong?

He is saying that the majority of the protesters have no partners, and will never have any, so therefore they should not be protesting as the inference is they will never get pregnant therefore should have no voice

Not quite, he is dragging them for being spoilt middle class munters looking for a cause to make them feel important

Your reading comprehension is grand :laugh:

That is not how I read it

I think he was saying what I said and what you said

Ultimately it was aimed to belittle, hurt and make him feel better about himself

Not nice

What is the truth!!???

Either way that's pretty crass and unprofessional from someone with political power

Oliver_W
05-05-2022, 09:04 AM
The Dems hold the House, the Senate, and the Presidency - if they have the courage of their convictions, they'll do something about it.

Sitting republican congressman, currently under federal investigation for sex trafficking minors, and a friend to women.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FR7B9NrVUAAwQIq?format=jpg&name=small

Does he think that people should only protest for matters which directly affect themselves? I wonder what he thinks about ... Practically every historic protest movement to make a real difference?

arista
05-05-2022, 09:12 AM
Fixed for you.


Sure, he has to go to Court

The Slim Reaper
05-05-2022, 09:29 AM
The Dems hold the House, the Senate, and the Presidency - if they have the courage of their convictions, they'll do something about it.



Does he think that people should only protest for matters which directly affect themselves? I wonder what he thinks about ... Practically every historic protest movement to make a real difference?

In theory it sounds simple, but in reality is all they can really do is censure him, which is the equivalent of wagging a finger and frowning.

The Slim Reaper
05-05-2022, 09:34 AM
Yes Alf
Slim skips Joe Biden's past.

He was against abortions

The bit in bold isn't really true. Even those that are anti-abortion, still view the issue in wider terms than personal religion or ideology. Biden himself is anti-abortion (Catholicism), or he was until very recently, but he also understands it's not his place to hand over control of women's bodies to the government. There's a clear distinction between the judges nominated by both parties.

Judicial appointments are political in nature, so right wing repubs nominate extreme judges, and democrat centrists, nominate centrists.

Well this is somewhat awkward...

Beso
05-05-2022, 09:57 AM
Didnt Biden leak this

bots
05-05-2022, 10:07 AM
Biden is most probably a closet pro lifer. He knows he would lose a big proportion of his popularity if he confirmed that position now

Liam-
05-05-2022, 10:25 AM
Right wingers are really taking their hoods off for this now, trying to lay blame at the feet of the first ever black woman confirmed to scotus... even though she doesn’t take her seat until the summer, so it’s literally impossible for her to have leaked anything :joker:

Swan
05-05-2022, 10:29 AM
Biden is most probably a closet pro lifer. He knows he would lose a big proportion of his popularity if he confirmed that position now

I swear half of Biden's vote was a vote against Trump, and not necessarily a vote in favour of Biden. My best gaming friend who lives in Indiana (rep sate) only voted for Biden for that very reason.

Niamh.
05-05-2022, 10:31 AM
I swear half of Biden's vote was a vote against Trump, and not necessarily a vote in favour of Biden. My best gaming friend who lives in Indiana (rep sate) only voted for Biden for that very reason.

Shame that's how things are in the States, it was also similar when Trump got in, a lot of people voted for Trump because they hated Hilary

Alf
05-05-2022, 10:46 AM
I swear half of Biden's vote was a vote against Trump, and not necessarily a vote in favour of Biden. My best gaming friend who lives in Indiana (rep sate) only voted for Biden for that very reason.Trump won easy. The Deep state stole the election. Just like they did in Iraq, Afghanistan, Lebanon, Syria, Ukraine and probably others.

The truth will come out soon, because as Trump has always said "We caught them all, we have it on tape" Trump always turns out to be right.

bots
05-05-2022, 11:02 AM
as long as there are gullible people that believe every conspiracy theory going, people like trump will continue to take advantage

Oliver_W
05-05-2022, 11:04 AM
Right wingers are really taking their hoods off for this now, trying to lay blame at the feet of the first ever black woman confirmed to scotus... even though she doesn’t take her seat until the summer, so it’s literally impossible for her to have leaked anything :joker:

Who or what are you even referring to?

Alf
05-05-2022, 11:06 AM
as long as there are gullible people that believe every conspiracy theory going, people like trump will continue to take advantageTake advantage of what?

The guy didn't even take his salary for doing the job of President, he donated it to charities. The guy is a billionaire, he could retire and live the rest of his life in luxury. What is he taking advantage of and for what reason?

The Slim Reaper
05-05-2022, 11:10 AM
Trumps 4 year presidential salary came to about $1.5 million, he spent around £150m of taxpayer money on golf trips alone.

Oliver_W
05-05-2022, 11:12 AM
Take advantage of what?

The guy didn't even take his salary for doing the job of President, he donated it to charities. The guy is a billionaire, he could retire and live the rest of his life in luxury. What is he taking advantage of and for what reason?

Of course he'd take advantage of it, he's just another politician.

Alf
05-05-2022, 11:16 AM
Of course he'd take advantage of it, he's just another politician.He's not a politician. How many times do you see politicians swearing during their rally speeches? Trump does a few times every rally.

Oliver_W
05-05-2022, 11:38 AM
He's not a politician. How many times do you see politicians swearing during their rally speeches? Trump does a few times every rally.

He does lots of things other politicians don't :shrug: doesn't make him any better than the rest of 'em.