Dublin Pride has incorporated the Ukrainian flag into the Pride flag

[Oliver_W]

https://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=5443&stc=1&d=1654247262
https://dublinpride.ie/pride-2022/

:joker:

The Pride flag looked ugly enough with the triangle addition going down the side, wtf is that meant to be?

[Alf]

Flag shaggers

[Oliver_W]

Flag shaggers

Give or take a letter :hehe:

[Swan]

I don't understand the connection between the two at all.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I don't understand the connection between the two at all.

https://productchain.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/Bandwagon2_dreamstime_m_22808594.jpg

[Alf]

I don't understand the connection between the two at all.The television has told you that if you're in support of Ukraine (ignoring the Nazis elements of the country) then you good
Person, so everyone wants to show everyone else what a good person they really are by showing off the Ukraine flag at every opportunity.

There is no connection or logic behind the reason. It's just a vanity and ego project.

The talking heads in the television set have spoken. So let it be said, so let it be done

[user104658]

everyone wants to show everyone else what a good person they really are by showing of the Ukraine flag at every opportunity.

There is no connection or logic behind the reason. It's just a vanity and ego project.

I largely agree with this to be fair. I think most of the people waving Ukraine flags around couldn't really care less about Ukraine.

#JusticeForJohnny

Oh wait wrong thread for that one ... ...

[Oliver_W]

The television has told you that if you're in support of Ukraine (ignoring the Nazis elements of the country) then you good
Person, so everyone wants to show everyone else what a good person they really are by showing off the Ukraine flag at every opportunity.

There is no connection or logic behind the reason. It's just a vanity and ego project.

The talking heads in the television set have spoken. So let it be said, so let it be done

(absurdly large pic)

Well yeah. Lumping all issues or causes into one flag is a bit insulting to all those involved.

Trans people were already included in the rainbow flag, why did they need a dedicated section?

What do "black and brown" people have to do with LGBT? I can't imagine as a whole they're thrilled about lumped in with the gays, especially as they're GENERALLY more anti-LGBT than white people, on average.

So why is it all in one flag.?

[user104658]

It’s all a bit … incongruent, really. Ukraine is an ex-soviet state and, current events aside, it’s obviously much more culturally similar to Russia than it is Western Europe. In other words - their record on LGBT issues is … not great. Politically/legally it’s been improving, mostly because of their desire to join the EU, but culturally they’re not particularly accepting of LGBT at all. The sad irony is that an awful lot of the Ukrainian people this has been supposedly made in support of, would be absolutely horrified to see their country’s flag merged with the pride flag.

Just an awful lot of cultural ignorance really. And it all becomes sort of meaningless once you start trying to cram everything into one banner. In a decades time, straight people will say “hey what about us?” And in the name of inclusion that’ll be added to the flag too and it’ll just be an everyone-flag.

[bots]

i think they should add solidarity with vegans, extinction rebellion, insulation and green energy and that should be all the causes adequately covered

[Alf]

They just love them Nazis.


5SBo0akeDMY

[bots]

the majority of the forces fighting at that steel works were part of the far right fascist group and they were being hailed as heroes, so it's all a bit difficult

[user104658]

the majority of the forces fighting at that steel works were part of the far right fascist group and they were being hailed as heroes, so it's all a bit difficult


It’s hardly without precedent though, not massively different to the wests support of Islamic extremists in the Middle East when they were useful in removing institutions that the west wanted gone. And then, unsurprisingly, they were unable to (or more accurately didn’t even bother trying to) contain the spread of those groups in the chaos that followed.

If far right facism starts to take serious root in post-war Ukraine in 5 years time, the west will do the same shocked pikachu face that was feigned at the rise of Al Qaeda / ISIS etc.

[MTVN]

What do all the colours in the triangle represent?

[ThomasC]

The flag doesn't look great, but not really the point.

The point is one community is showing another community support. What the hell is wrong with that?

It's not a hard concept to grab at all in my opinion.

OK so Ukraine doesn't recognise same sex marriage and non binary gender is not recognised , conversion therapy is not banned and adoption is illegal. All extremely wrong! However, the country is at war and many people have lost their lives so regardless it might be nice to show support and this is what this flag does.

[Alf]

What do all the colours in the triangle represent?Mayonnaise


1532947131694211074

[ThomasC]

Well yeah. Lumping all issues or causes into one flag is a bit insulting to all those involved.

Trans people were already included in the rainbow flag, why did they need a dedicated section?

What do "black and brown" people have to do with LGBT? I can't imagine as a whole they're thrilled about lumped in with the gays, especially as they're GENERALLY more anti-LGBT than white people, on average.

So why is it all in one flag.?

Maybe because trans people are even more discriminated against than gay people?

I think the correlation is groups that are discriminated against. I think anything that can be done to have a world less free of discrimination against LGBTQ or the colour of your skin

[user104658]

The flag doesn't look great, but not really the point.

The point is one community is showing another community support. What the hell is wrong with that?

It's not a hard concept to grab at all in my opinion.

OK so Ukraine doesn't recognise same sex marriage and non binary gender is not recognised , conversion therapy is not banned and adoption is illegal. All extremely wrong! However, the country is at war and many people have lost their lives so regardless it might be nice to show support and this is what this flag does.


They didn’t add the Syrian or Iraqi flags when we were bombing them back to the Stone Age. I don’t think people showing support is a “problem” but when that support feels like empty populism I think it’s perfectly fair to comment on that. The show of support is not for the benefit of Ukrainian people… it’s to demonstrate that that person “is the sort of person who shows support for stuff” - or virtue signalling, for those inclined to use the buzz terms.

I’m not just talking about it being added to the LGBT flag, I’m talking about everyone who sticks a blue and yellow flag on their Twitter profile picture “because everyone else is doing it”.

[MTVN]

They didn’t add the Syrian or Iraqi flags when we were bombing them back to the Stone Age. I don’t think people showing support is a “problem” but when that support feels like empty populism I think it’s perfectly fair to comment on that. The show of support is not for the benefit of Ukrainian people… it’s to demonstrate that that person “is the sort of person who shows support for stuff” - or virtue signalling, for those inclined to use the buzz terms.

I’m not just talking about it being added to the LGBT flag, I’m talking about everyone who sticks a blue and yellow flag on their Twitter profile picture “because everyone else is doing it”.

Not sure Ireland had much to do with that tbf

They have accepted a lot of Ukrainian refugees though which is probably part of the reasoning for the show of support

[user104658]

Not sure Ireland had much to do with that tbf

They have accepted a lot of Ukrainian refugees though which is probably part of the reasoning for the show of support


I didn’t notice it was Ireland to be fair.

The rest of the point stands though - they weren’t adding Syrian or Iraqi flags OR accepting tonnes of refugees. That’s not to single out Ireland of course - the same is true of the whole of Europe. Visible support of Ukraine is “trendy”. That’s not to say that people SHOULDNT support civilian victims of war, wherever that war may be, of course they should, but… reasoning isn’t irrelevant.

[Jordan.]

Mayonnaise


1532947131694211074

Who's trying to make him eat a fake image?

[Alf]

Who's trying to make him eat a fake image?Go on his twitter and ask him.

[Jordan.]

Go on his twitter and ask him.

He's lying and you fell for it.

[MTVN]

I didn’t notice it was Ireland to be fair.

The rest of the point stands though - they weren’t adding Syrian or Iraqi flags OR accepting tonnes of refugees. That’s not to single out Ireland of course - the same is true of the whole of Europe. Visible support of Ukraine is “trendy”. That’s not to say that people SHOULDNT support civilian victims of war, wherever that war may be, of course they should, but… reasoning isn’t irrelevant.

It is trendy but then it's not the only thing on this flag that's an attempt at that. Some things just grab the publics attention and the Ukraine war is one of those although over time people will become desensitised to it unfortunately as always happens and those flags on twitter handles will fade away. I'd say that's partly why there's not similar shows of support to the countries you mentioned - because the Middle East has been a hotbed of conflict for years and years

[UserSince2005]

As a gay Ukrainian trans black pansexual I do appreciate the effort but it doesn't represent my veganism :conf2:

[Alf]

He's lying and you fell for it.I didn't fall for anything. I was simply giving a comical reply to MTVN's question.

[Oliver_W]

What do all the colours in the triangle represent?
The blue/pink/white is for trans people, because apparently they weren't already covered by the LGBT flag.

The black and brown is for "Black and Brown folx", because apparently they should be lumped in with LGBT people.

non binary gender is not recognised ,
Well that's fair, non-binary identities are a load of nonsense. No need for them to have any real recognition.

Maybe because trans people are even more discriminated against than gay people?
Are they? How so?

[ThomasC]

The blue/pink/white is for trans people, because apparently they weren't already covered by the LGBT flag.

The black and brown is for "Black and Brown folx", because apparently they should be lumped in with LGBT people.


Well that's fair, non-binary identities are a load of nonsense. No need for them to have any real recognition.


Are they? How so?

Because it's even less accepting than being gay or lesbian.

Re non binary, well I disagree. I think you're very ignorant on the subject and judgemental, close minded. Shame really. How about just accepting people for who they are and judging them on whether they're a nice person or not? How does it impact you? Doesn't really so let people be people...if someone wants to identify as a tiger I really couldn't give a toss, it's their life, not mine

[ThomasC]

Here lies a big part of the problem, people moaning and disagreeing with others lives which do not effect them.

Rather than being nice people, people are judgemental and offensive. Just because you don't understand something or disagree with it.

If it has a direct impact on your life then maybe it's fair, but it really doesn't.

Let people be happy to enjoy their lives how they want as long as they're not hurting anyone else. I think it quite telling on how people feel about themselves....you know that saying 'says more about you than them'.... Yeah I really think it does.

[GoldHeart]

Here lies a big part of the problem, people moaning and disagreeing with others lives which do not effect them.

Rather than being nice people, people are judgemental and offensive. Just because you don't understand something or disagree with it.

If it has a direct impact on your life then maybe it's fair, but it really doesn't.

Let people be happy to enjoy their lives how they want as long as they're not hurting anyone else. I think it quite telling on how people feel about themselves....you know that saying 'says more about you than them'.... Yeah I really think it does.

I think it comes back to a generation thing .

I say the same thing.
I personally have never cared what someone's race, sexuality,gender,or how they identify.

[Oliver_W]

Because it's even less accepting than being gay or lesbian.

Where? By whom?


Re non binary, well I disagree. I think you're very ignorant on the subject and judgemental, close minded. Shame really. How about just accepting people for who they are and judging them on whether they're a nice person or not? How does it impact you? Doesn't really so let people be people...if someone wants to identify as a tiger I really couldn't give a toss, it's their life, not mine
You can disagree all you like. Gender identity is a social construct, however you identify you're still male or female. Non-binary doesn't need legal recognition because it has no real existence. I don't care how nice or otherwise someone who identifies as non-binary is, their niceness doesn't make their luxury belief become true.

If someone identifies as a tiger,should we force them to eat raw meat they've hunted themselves? No, because they're not a tiger and would probably die from food poisoning. Of someone identifies as a "gender" he or she biologically isn't, should we pay along and let them into the opposite sex's sports and spaces, and allow the law to openly lie about someone having no gender? No, because gender isn't al.

We're all just apes in clothes.

[GoldHeart]

Where? By whom?


You can disagree all you like. Gender identity is a social construct, however you identify you're still male or female. Non-binary doesn't need legal recognition because it has no real existence. I don't care how nice or otherwise someone who identifies as non-binary is, their niceness doesn't make their luxury belief become true.

If someone identifies as a tiger,should we force them to eat raw meat they've hunted themselves? No, because they're not a tiger and would probably die from food poisoning. Of someone identifies as a "gender" he or she biologically isn't, should we pay along and let them into the opposite sex's sports and spaces, and allow the law to openly lie about someone having no gender? No, because gender isn't al.

We're all just apes in clothes.

Tbh I've noticed most 'non binary' people don't care which pronouns they get called when it comes to 'he & she' . It can get confusing to keep saying "they", and I've actually seen people still say male or female despite insisting they identify as neither so there you .

With the whole tiger thing , well there is people out there who have had their bodies modified to look more 'animal like' , I personally don't understand why or what the point is. But it's their bodies. They know the dangers & risks medically yet they chose to do it :shrug: .

[ThomasC]

Where? By whom?


You can disagree all you like. Gender identity is a social construct, however you identify you're still male or female. Non-binary doesn't need legal recognition because it has no real existence. I don't care how nice or otherwise someone who identifies as non-binary is, their niceness doesn't make their luxury belief become true.

If someone identifies as a tiger,should we force them to eat raw meat they've hunted themselves? No, because they're not a tiger and would probably die from food poisoning. Of someone identifies as a "gender" he or she biologically isn't, should we pay along and let them into the opposite sex's sports and spaces, and allow the law to openly lie about someone having no gender? No, because gender isn't al.

We're all just apes in clothes.

https://www.stonewall.org.uk/cy/node/24594

Also of you have a Google the research is out there. If you can't work out yourself why trans people are likely to be more discriminated against than gay or lesbian people then I don't know what else to say. I can't be bothered to educate you when you're a bigot as it really won't change your stance.

You say gender identity is a social construct, that is so behind the times. Times have evolved massively and I like to think we're more accepting these days.

Again, it really has no impact on your life.

Trans people being able to participate in sports events is another conversation, but I do agree with your point on that.

I just don't like how you completely dismiss how another person should feel or even acknowledge that it is a thing. They aren't harming no one so does it really matter? No it really does not. It's easy for you to be so ignorant when you're not that person.

Legal recognition and someone identifying as that can be two completing different things. Unless they have had an operation and then want to change their sex legally.

We shouldnt force them to do anything, if they want to do something then they can. It's not my life and it's not yours!!!

[ThomasC]

I think it comes back to a generation thing .

I say the same thing.
I personally have never cared what someone's race, sexuality,gender,or how they identify.

Agreed.

Yes generational, insecurity and ignorance......and people deflecting their sad lives... People who are genuinely happy don't need or try to pick fault in others lives because they're too busy focusing on their own and not caring.

Mirrors are great for reflecting.....often you have to look in one to see yourself

[Alf]

https://www.stonewall.org.uk/cy/node/24594

Also of you have a Google the research is out there. If you can't work out yourself why trans people are likely to be more discriminated against than gay or lesbian people then I don't know what else to say. I can't be bothered to educate you when you're a bigot as it really won't change your stance.

You say gender identity is a social construct, that is so behind the times. Times have evolved massively and I like to think we're more accepting these days.

Again, it really has no impact on your life.

Trans people being able to participate in sports events is another conversation, but I do agree with your point on that.

I just don't like how you completely dismiss how another person should feel or even acknowledge that it is a thing. They aren't harming no one so does it really matter? No it really does not. It's easy for you to be so ignorant when you're not that person.

Legal recognition and someone identifying as that can be two completing different things. Unless they have had an operation and then want to change their sex legally.

We shouldnt force them to do anything, if they want to do something then they can. It's not my life and it's not yours!!!But what if Oliver identifies as a bigot, shouldn't you respect him for that and let people be who they want to be?

[ThomasC]

But what if Oliver identifies as a bigot, shouldn't you respect him for that and let people be who they want to be?

Objection, irrelevant.

Don't play silly with me. :nono:

[Alf]

Objection, irrelevant.

Don't play silly with me. :nono:Some people think that others identifying as a tiger is playing silly.

[GoldHeart]

Some people think that others identifying as a tiger is playing silly.

It might seem silly,but there's literally a bloke somewhere who's had his tongue split & wants to look like a lizard.

There's another one somewhere who had his face modified to look like a cat . Like i said .. I'll never understand it but it's their bodies & their choice,and they know the medical risks.

[Alf]

On this forum I identify as Alf Garnett and he is one of the most famous, well known bigots in history.

Anyone who has a problem with me being bigotted from now on is oppressing me. Them's the rules, I didn't make the rules up.

[Beso]

It is trendy but then it's not the only thing on this flag that's an attempt at that. Some things just grab the publics attention and the Ukraine war is one of those although over time people will become desensitised to it unfortunately as always happens and those flags on twitter handles will fade away. I'd say that's partly why there's not similar shows of support to the countries you mentioned - because the Middle East has been a hotbed of conflict for years and years

Or it could be as simple as the colour of their skin is more acceptable to the LGBT community.

[Oliver_W]

You say gender identity is a social construct, that is so behind the times.



Which scientists agree with this?

Gender identity is literally a belief, there's nothing there.

[user104658]

“Identity” is a social construct full stop, so there’s no question of gender identity not being a social construct.

It’s an entirely benign statement to say so, but for some reason it’s taken as offensive. Social construct doesn’t mean “not real”.

[ThomasC]

Which scientists agree with this?

Gender identity is literally a belief, there's nothing there.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/old-school-parenting-modern-day-families/201907/time-move-beyond-gender-is-socially-constructed

A well known source again it is behind the times to view it as just a social construct, it's a lot more than that.

You're making yourself look silly now. Behave :nono:


Again

[ThomasC]

Stopping digging yourself into a hole. I've blown you out the water twice nice. Nice to see you didn't come back with the transgender article

Also love how you just quoted that part.

Here's some more links if you like;

https://qz.com/1190996/scientific-research-shows-gender-is-not-just-a-social-construct/

https://www.heritage.org/gender/commentary/transgender-ideology-riddled-contradictions-here-are-the-big-ones

https://erlc.com/resource-library/articles/3-fatal-flaws-in-the-gender-as-social-construct-position/

Would you like anymore or are you giving up with making yourself look like a baffoon?

[Beso]

Does the biological side of things cover the ages you are attracted to people sexually?

[Oliver_W]

Would you like anymore or are you giving up with making yourself look like a baffoon?
:joker:
All you did was post a few links to some blogs, probably the first ones you found on Google, without having read them. If you had read them, you might have noticed nuggets like It is counter to medical science to use chromosomes, hormones, internal reproductive organs, external genitalia, or secondary sex characteristics to override gender identity for purposes of classifying someone as male or female , which is obviously bonkers.

[ThomasC]

:joker:
All you did was post a few links to some blogs, probably the first ones you found on Google, without having read them. If you had read them, you might have noticed nuggets like It is counter to medical science to use chromosomes, hormones, internal reproductive organs, external genitalia, or secondary sex characteristics to override gender identity for purposes of classifying someone as male or female , which is obviously bonkers.

You asked which scientists agreed with it. I found you several links. Where else would I find this information from other than Google? I didn't need to read the whole article of every link to prove my point.

Still waiting to know how it impacts your life how someone else lives theirs?

[Oliver_W]

Still waiting to know how it impacts your life how someone else lives theirs?

I never said I had a personal problem with people acting like something they're not. I dislike the negative effects that come from transwomen in women's spaces and sports, but I bear them no personal ill-will.

[user104658]

https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/old-school-parenting-modern-day-families/201907/time-move-beyond-gender-is-socially-constructed



A well known source again it is behind the times to view it as just a social construct, it's a lot more than that.



You're making yourself look silly now. Behave :nono:





Again



Stopping digging yourself into a hole. I've blown you out the water twice nice. Nice to see you didn't come back with the transgender article

Also love how you just quoted that part.

Here's some more links if you like;

https://qz.com/1190996/scientific-research-shows-gender-is-not-just-a-social-construct/

https://www.heritage.org/gender/commentary/transgender-ideology-riddled-contradictions-here-are-the-big-ones

https://erlc.com/resource-library/articles/3-fatal-flaws-in-the-gender-as-social-construct-position/

Would you like anymore or are you giving up with making yourself look like a baffoon?



None of these are research papers? These are articles and opinion pieces, not scientific studies or research.

[ThomasC]

None of these are research papers? These are articles and opinion pieces, not scientific studies or research.

https://scholar.google.co.uk/scholar?q=social+construct+and+transgender+issues&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart#d=gs_qabs&t=1654455527697&u=%23p%3DbgkxbkozzIcJ

We conclude by considering the possibilities for the clinical encounter to subvert dominant gender ideology by authorizing more fluid gender identities and sexed bodies.

https://scholar.google.co.uk/scholar?q=social+construct+and+transgender+issues&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart#d=gs_qabs&t=1654455664479&u=%23p%3DscqGpS27A4kJ

This article describes the emergence of transgender theory from feminist and queer theories that used social constructivist approaches to challenge essentialist ideas that maintained the oppression of certain gender and sexual identities.

https://scholar.google.co.uk/scholar?q=social+construct+and+transgender+issues&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart#d=gs_qabs&t=1654455835975&u=%23p%3DlyXI3QgQcKcJ

The discussion advances a critical analysis of the dominant gender paradigm using two alternative theoretical perspectives on gender—queer theory and social constructionism.



So I will go back to original comment where I basically say that social construct is behind the times in matters relating to transgender. There's a lot more to it.

The problem is social constructionism or how people think, the problem is not with transgender people, but instead others ignorant views.

I didn't once say social constructs don't exist, but what I am saying is that they can be behind the times......you have to read between the lines.