Archie Battersbee, aged 12 took part in a online challenge, now deceased

[arista]

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/B006/production/_124726054_hi075971431.jpg
[Archie Battersbee suffered brain damage
in an incident at home on 7 April and
has not regained consciousness]

In a High Court, the next 3 days
his parents are trying to stop the Hospital
from turning off the Life Support.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-61441444


https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2022/06/06/13/58741673-10889023-image-a-1_1654518534809.jpg


[Parts of Archie Battersbee's brain have
'died and are decaying':
Parents of 12-year-old boy are told in court
of his 'grave prognosis' as they fight to
stop life support machine being turned off
Archie Battersbee suffered
'catastrophic' brain damage in an
incident at home
He has not regained consciousness
since he was found unresponsive last month
Bosses at Royal London Hospital,
Whitechapel, believe it 'highly likely' he is dead
Mrs Justice Arbuthnot ruled on Friday
that Archie should undergo further scans
A specialist today said parts of his
brain have 'died' and prognosis 'very grave']


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10889023/Results-scans-boy-brain-damage-hard-bear-judge-told.html


I would hate to be the Judge
on this sad case.


It was Reported on Ch5HDnews

[Kate!]

Absolutely heartbreaking ��

[arista]

In Court Today
The Judge Looked at what the Family say

Sadly tomorrow
The Lady Judge may decide


Ref:Ch5HDnews

[Beso]

Dont switch it off, let the family look at his beautiful face for longer.

[user104658]

Is there any report on what the "online challenge" was? Not to be morbid but it's important to report these things, so that parents can have a talk with their kids about these dangerous crazes that go around and explain how dangerous they can be.

There was one a couple of years back that had teenagers eating spoonfuls of pure caffeine powder. Resulted in several cardiac arrests.

The "Cinnamon challenge" can be dangerous too and has put people in respiratory distress.

[arista]

Dont switch it off, let the family look at his beautiful face for longer.

Yes The Mother was Crying
she says give him a fair chance

[Cherie]

I didn’t realise this was caused by an online challenge, I recall at the time they said it was an accident, her beautiful boy, they need to give Mum and Dad more time to come to terms with what is going on, I think he might be their only child as well? The key word in the article for me is he is ‘unlikely’ to recover which indicates there is hope

[hijaxers]

What a deeply devastating outcome for this lovely boy and his family , I fear the worst for today, whatever happens its such a tragedy over a stupid online challenge ~ all parents beware !

[arista]

Is there any report on what the "online challenge" was? Not to be morbid but it's important to report these things, so that parents can have a talk with their kids about these dangerous crazes that go around and explain how dangerous they can be.

There was one a couple of years back that had teenagers eating spoonfuls of pure caffeine powder. Resulted in several cardiac arrests.

The "Cinnamon challenge" can be dangerous too and has put people in respiratory distress.


No to dangerous
to talk about, I assume.

[arista]

The Judge has delayed her Decision
until this Friday.

[AnnieK]

Having read the reports, I think it is some form of asphyxiation challenge. Some horrific online stuff out there that kids are too young to know the risks about. I am very wary of what my son does online - he is not allowed to have his phone etc upstairs - I don't necessarily check up on what he is watching but he is always around when he's on his phone so I know he's not up to anything too dodgy (I think)

https://www.newsweek.com/what-tiktok-trend-blackout-1580014

[hijaxers]

Is there any report on what the "online challenge" was? Not to be morbid but it's important to report these things, so that parents can have a talk with their kids about these dangerous crazes that go around and explain how dangerous they can be.

There was one a couple of years back that had teenagers eating spoonfuls of pure caffeine powder. Resulted in several cardiac arrests.

The "Cinnamon challenge" can be dangerous too and has put people in respiratory distress.



It involved putting a ligature around his neck.

[UserSince2005]

what a waste, was it sexual? I know this type of thing is very common, shocking for a 12 year old to be participating in such activity.

[Mystic Mock]

Honestly a terrible situation for the family to be in.

Hopefully a miracle will happen and he pulls through.

[arista]

The Mother was Live on This Morning

First Story
He had something tied tight round his neck

In Hospital for 8 Weeks.


One Expert who gave Evidence
in Court for them,
said another case a
Girl just need nourishment
to recover.

[arista]

It is now today the Judge will rule on the Hospital
the Family say he has gripped their hand,

SkyNewsHD Live
GBnewsHD Live

[arista]

High Court has ruled to stop the life support.


The Mother is now on appeal

[arista]

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2022/06/13/12/59009549-0-image-m-13_1655120292078.jpg

[arista]

[Judge rules 12-year-old Archie Battersbee
is 'brain stem dead' and his life support SHOULD end
despite his family's desperate plea - as his
mother says: 'I know my son is still in there'

Hollie Dance, 46, had made an
emotional last-ditch appeal for a
High Court judge to save her son
Archie Battersbee has not regained
consciousness since incident at Essex home
where he was discovered
He was found unresponsive with
a ligature around his neck by his family
and has been in a coma since]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10911203/Judge-rules-Archie-Battersbees-life-support-end.html

[user104658]

It's a heartbreaking situation - obviously any parent is going to cling to hope if they can tell themselves that their child is still alive. The sad reality of course is that they will be certain that he has no hope of recovery but again, expecting any parent to accept that is huge.

The morals of it are very complicated. I feel like in moral terms, if he's truly braindead then he isn't suffering... if they're arguing that he may be suffering then he isn't braindead. And so, what harm is there continuing like this a little longer. Sadly the parents are more likely to at some point accept the truth as time passes. If it's purely a resources issue that just starts to become really awful.

[ThomasC]

Having read the reports, I think it is some form of asphyxiation challenge. Some horrific online stuff out there that kids are too young to know the risks about. I am very wary of what my son does online - he is not allowed to have his phone etc upstairs - I don't necessarily check up on what he is watching but he is always around when he's on his phone so I know he's not up to anything too dodgy (I think)

https://www.newsweek.com/what-tiktok-trend-blackout-1580014

Yes I heard this.

Terribly sad.

I think the parents are in a state of shock and denial.

He's been described as brain stem dead. If it's the brain stem then yeah unfortunately he's dead or dying and will not survive

Too many of these crazy challenges. I remember AJ off strictly and his girlfriend doing one to record to show their followers on Instagram. It involved setting fire to a wine bottle to make a vase. The whole thing ignited and set alight to Abbie his girlfriend.

These challenges are often an accident waiting to happen.

[arista]

[He's been described as brain stem dead. If it's the brain stem then yeah unfortunately he's dead or dying and will not survive]


Another Doctor says he could be saved

[ThomasC]

[He's been described as brain stem dead. If it's the brain stem then yeah unfortunately he's dead or dying and will not survive]


Another Doctor says he could be saved

Well I really hope that is the case.if he's had an MRI though and the brain stem is damaged then the outlook unfortunately is extremely bleak.

The brain stem connects the brain to the entire body and is responsible for message input and output. It controls breathing, heart rate, motor function, involuntary

[Beso]

It's an evil old world where you cant ease your own suffering by going down the assisted suicide route..but a judge can rule that someones life support be switched off.

[arista]

It's an evil old world where you cant ease your own suffering by going down the assisted suicide route..but a judge can rule that someones life support be switched off.


Yes, the Hospital Doctors take that choice.

[bots]

life isn't fair

[arista]

[Archie Battersbee treatment should stop, judge rules

Treatment for a brain-damaged boy
in a coma should stop, a judge has ruled.
Archie Battersbee, 12, was found unconscious
at his home in Southend, Essex, on 7 April.

Doctors treating him at the
Royal London Hospital in
east London told the High Court
it was "highly likely" he was
"brain-stem dead" and asked
for his life support to end.

Archie's mother Hollie Dance said she
was "devastated" and the family planned to appeal.
The court previously heard that Archie suffered
brain damage during an incident at home,
which his mother believed may
have been related to an online challenge.

He has not regained consciousness since.

Archie's mother, and his father Paul Battersbee,
disagreed with the hospital and have been
supported by the Christian Legal Centre
campaigning organisation.]


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-61731843

[arista]

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/D371/production/_124792145_hi076067934.jpg

["Basing this judgement on an MRI test
and that he is 'likely' to be dead,
is not good enough.
This is believed to be the first time that
someone has been declared 'likely'
to be dead based on an MRI test."

She said she felt "sickened" that the
hospital and judge had not taken
into account the wishes of the family
and added she did "not believe Archie has
been given enough time".

"His heart is still beating, he has gripped
my hand, and as his mother,
I know he is still in there," she said.

"Until it's God's way I won't accept
he should go.
I know of miracles when people
have come back from being brain dead.

"We intend to appeal and will
not give up on Archie."]

[arista]

Dr. Hilary Live on GMBHD itv

Pointed out his heart is still beating
but turn the Life Support Off
it will stop.

[ThomasC]

Dr. Hilary Live on GMBHD itv

Pointed out his heart is still beating
but turn the Life Support Off
it will stop.

Yes his heart is still beating because that is what the life support machine is doing,,keeping his heart moving, but his brain is dead. Once they turn that machine off his heart will stop, they are just artificially keeping him alive.

Life can change in the split of a second. There's no words really, but it's just so sad

[bots]

it's very sad, but being blunt about it, the machine will be better utilised on someone with a chance of survival, and thats what it comes down to in the end

[ThomasC]

it's very sad, but being blunt about it, the machine will be better utilised on someone with a chance of survival, and thats what it comes down to in the end

Agreed.

[user104658]

it's very sad, but being blunt about it, the machine will be better utilised on someone with a chance of survival, and thats what it comes down to in the end

See that's where I think there's a slight moral issue though; I'm not saying keep the machines on indefinitely, however if the reason for turning them off is because they're needed elsewhere rather than to reduce suffering EVEN IF there is no chance of recovery, then I think it's a shame that we're in that situation and can't give the family a little more time to come to terms with their loss before forcing the issue. "Lack of resources" doesn't seem a good enough reason to force traumatic action on the family. He isn't suffering so there's no moral reason not to keep the machines on, from that angle.

Again I'm not saying keep the machines on indefinitely, just that (in a perfect world) they could be given more time and counselling to understand what's happened, what brain death means, to come more to terms with the fact that he will never wake up etc. before "brute force" taking control of the situation.

[Niamh.]

The whole thing is just so heartbreaking, those poor people

[rusticgal]

This is such a tragedy. Any parent would fight and have hope but sometimes you have to listen to the experts and think what is best for your son.

[Oliver_W]

See that's where I think there's a slight moral issue though; I'm not saying keep the machines on indefinitely, however if the reason for turning them off is because they're needed elsewhere rather than to reduce suffering EVEN IF there is no chance of recovery, then I think it's a shame that we're in that situation and can't give the family a little more time to come to terms with their loss before forcing the issue. "Lack of resources" doesn't seem a good enough reason to force traumatic action on the family. He isn't suffering so there's no moral reason not to keep the machines on, from that angle.

Again I'm not saying keep the machines on indefinitely, just that (in a perfect world) they could be given more time and counselling to understand what's happened, what brain death means, to come more to terms with the fact that he will never wake up etc. before "brute force" taking control of the situation.

Well yeah. Clinging onto blind hope aside,I'm not entirely sure his family fully grasps what braindeath means, as in, what's going on with him physically and neurologically, and what things would be like for him if he woke up.
I'm not saying potential brain damage means someone's life isn't worth living, by the way.

[Niamh.]

This is such a tragedy. Any parent would fight and have hope but sometimes you have to listen to the experts and think what is best for your son.

I mean tbf he probably isn't suffering he's not conscious so probably has no idea what's going on

[bots]

every parent wishes for a miracle in this situation, so facts don't really enter into it. Realistically, the process of acceptance could take months or years to reach, and thats why it's necessary to be blunt some times

[ThomasC]

See that's where I think there's a slight moral issue though; I'm not saying keep the machines on indefinitely, however if the reason for turning them off is because they're needed elsewhere rather than to reduce suffering EVEN IF there is no chance of recovery, then I think it's a shame that we're in that situation and can't give the family a little more time to come to terms with their loss before forcing the issue. "Lack of resources" doesn't seem a good enough reason to force traumatic action on the family. He isn't suffering so there's no moral reason not to keep the machines on, from that angle.

Again I'm not saying keep the machines on indefinitely, just that (in a perfect world) they could be given more time and counselling to understand what's happened, what brain death means, to come more to terms with the fact that he will never wake up etc. before "brute force" taking control of the situation.

They are being given more time though as they are appealing it. There will be counseling and a family liaison officer.

Also, it's not a case of turning them off because they're needed elsewhere and that is certainly not what BOTS is saying, but rather that inevitably his life is extinct and the machine could be used with someone else. If there's a chance of survival them he would be kept on the machine for as long as needed or put into a coma.

There will become a time though where it will need to be switched off. It's not even just about the use of the machine, but the resources, time, cost and bed. We have an amazing NHS, but it is stretched, underfunded and under resourced.

You say rather than to reduce suffering. He isn't suffering.

I think it's a hard one because the grieving process can be extremely long and it's just not viable to keep a machine on for an extended period of time of there's no chance of recovery... Like I say, they're being given time... Will that time ever be enough, no it won't unfortunately

[ThomasC]

Well yeah. Clinging onto blind hope aside,I'm not entirely sure his family fully grasps what braindeath means, as in, what's going on with him physically and neurologically, and what things would be like for him if he woke up.
I'm not saying potential brain damage means someone's life isn't worth living, by the way.

Yeah and as you know brain damage and brain dead are different.

Depending on the extent of the brain damage is a question as to whether that life is worth living.

I have looked after people with brain damage and they are pretty much in a vegetated state and you are just caring for someone who isn't there.... The lights are on and no one is home.

I advocate for euthanasia in extreme cases, but it's extremely complicated and another debate.

Having said that, I express strongly that it depends on the extent of the brain damage and I'm not blanket talking all those with brain damage...but it can leave some with little to no quality of life

[user104658]

Yeah there are obviously different degrees of brain damage - e.g. plenty of ex-professional-fighters, or people arfter having a tumor removed or aneurism, actually have some degree of brain damage that just manifests as things like slurred speech, memory problems, etc. and in fact there might be no obvious symptoms at all. In this case though it sounds like even on the slimmest of chances of him breathing on his own, he would be in a permanent coma or persistent vegetative state which is effectively not even consciousness.

[ThomasC]

Yeah there are obviously different degrees of brain damage - e.g. plenty of ex-professional-fighters, or people arfter having a tumor removed or aneurism, actually have some degree of brain damage that just manifests as things like slurred speech, memory problems, etc. and in fact there might be no obvious symptoms at all. In this case though it sounds like even on the slimmest of chances of him breathing on his own, he would be in a permanent coma or persistent vegetative state which is effectively not even consciousness.

Yep, brain is divided into 4 sections all responsible for different cognitive functions.

Frontal, occipital, perefial and I can't think of the 4th.

Frontal lobe damage is more common than others

[user104658]

Yep, brain is divided into 4 sections all responsible for different cognitive functions.

Frontal, occipital, perefial and I can't think of the 4th.

Frontal lobe damage is more common than others


Frontal, parietal, temporal and occipital plus the cerebellum and then all the “stuff inside” that I couldn’t possibly name. Full disclosure I scraped a pass on neuropsychology/brain anatomy hence then focussing on social psychology rather than physical psychology :joker:

[arista]

The Mum claims he gripped her hand

[bots]

you can imagine anything if you want it enough

[user104658]

you can imagine anything if you want it enough

It's very similar to the story a few years ago with the little boy who the parents wanted to take to America for treatment - which is sadly something people have to be aware of both in terms of private healthcare providers who will offer hope in return for insane sums of money when in reality there's no real chance of success... or also offers of experimental treatments for free where the reality of it is really that they're looking for test subjects for data purposes and again have no real hopes of a successful outcome. Desperate parents are "easy targets" for both groups. Not that there isn't good reason for medical research but people need to go into something like that with their eyes fully open, not being promised a shot at a miracle.

[arista]

BBC1 AM

Is doing a big story on Archie
showing more videos
from when he was fit.

And an interview with his Mother.

The Appeal is going through
this week,
they may hear today.

[arista]

The Mother
has been granted an Appeal.


All Media.

[Cherie]

The Mother
has been granted an Appeal.


All Media.

that is great news, they need time to come to terms with what has happened and hope for a miracle :fc:

[arista]

[Archie Battersbee parents
win appeal to reconsider case]

[The parents of a 12-year-old boy at the
centre of a life-support dispute have won
an appeal for his case to be heard again.

Archie Battersbee was found unconscious
at his home in Southend, Essex, on 7 April.

A High Court judge previously ruled Archie
was dead and told doctors they could end
his life-support treatment.]

[The Court of Appeal has ordered
a new hearing at the High Court to determine
if it is in Archie's best interests.]


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-61980761

[Cherie]

In cases like this I don’t think life support should be turned off until the family come to terms with it and agree with the decision, otherwise as well as losing a child they will be left with what if’s

[Niamh.]

In cases like this I don’t think life support should be turned off until the family come to terms with it and agree with the decision, otherwise as well as losing a child they will be left with what if’s

I agree. The story is just heartbreaking

[Liam-]

In cases like this I don’t think life support should be turned off until the family come to terms with it and agree with the decision, otherwise as well as losing a child they will be left with what if’s

Without sounding too harsh, patients shouldn’t be kept on life support indefinitely if there’s absolutely no chance of recovery, especially if there are other people that could use the equipment that’s been used on them, yes it’s ridiculously sad, but doctors know more than all of us about this stuff, it’s literally their job to come to these conclusions

[arista]

[Archie Battersbee's 'delighted' parents say
'we've got everything we wanted'
after winning new hearing as Appeal Court
orders judge to reconsider whether
doctors can turn off tragic
12-year-old's life support]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10964171/Archie-Battersbees-parents-fight-today-overturn-High-Courts-ruling-stop-life-support.html

[Cherie]

Without sounding too harsh, patients shouldn’t be kept on life support indefinitely if there’s absolutely no chance of recovery, especially if there are other people that could use the equipment that’s been used on them, yes it’s ridiculously sad, but doctors know more than all of us about this stuff, it’s literally their job to come to these conclusions

I might agree with you if we were a year in, this happened in April, and doctors are human and have been known to be wrong on occasion, and their choice of language is that it is ‘unlikely’ he will recover which leaves room for doubt. It is too soon imo

[Mystic Mock]

[Archie Battersbee's 'delighted' parents say
'we've got everything we wanted'
after winning new hearing as Appeal Court
orders judge to reconsider whether
doctors can turn off tragic
12-year-old's life support]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10964171/Archie-Battersbees-parents-fight-today-overturn-High-Courts-ruling-stop-life-support.html

Hopefully he'll pull through.

[bots]

the decision has to be consistent and reflect best medical knowledge at the time of the incident. It's a dreadful circumstance for any parent to have to face and I fully support the parents right to appeal any decision.

[arista]

The High Court has ruled his life support machine
can now be turned off

[arista]

[Life-support treatment for 12-year-old
Archie Battersbee can end, a judge has ruled.
Archie was found unconscious at home
in Southend, Essex, on 7 April.

Doctors at the Royal London Hospital said
he was "brain stem dead" and it was in
his best interests to stop treatment.

Hollie Dance, Archie's mother,
said the family planned to appeal against
the latest decision.

"Archie would want us to
keep on fighting... and we will keep
on fighting," she said.]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-62175556

[arista]

Hopefully he'll pull through.


No change

[Mystic Mock]

No change

That's awful.

Hopefully the only bit of good that might come out of this is that the Police as well as the parents will be more on the lookout for these "challenges."

[Cherie]

More stress for the family

[bots]

they will keep appealing until it gets to the top court, and who can blame them

[joeysteele]

In cases like this I don’t think life support should be turned off until the family come to terms with it and agree with the decision, otherwise as well as losing a child they will be left with what if’s

I agree with this.

Heartbreaking and an awful situation this is but your last line is really strong.

[arista]

The Mother
spoke to Ch5HDnews

Saying if her son comes back as disabled,
it does not mean she will stop loving him.

[arista]

The Judge in charge has said no to her appeal


time is sadly running out

[arista]

[Archie Battersbee: Parents lose appeal over life support]

All arguments were dismissed by the Court of Appeal.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-62292655

[bots]

european court of human rights is the last option

[Mystic Mock]

[Archie Battersbee: Parents lose appeal over life support]

All arguments were dismissed by the Court of Appeal.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-62292655

That's sad news.

Understandably though the likelihood of him recovering at this point is slim, and the Hospital will probably want to use the machine on a patient that's more likely to recover.

[arista]

[Family of brain-damaged Archie Battersbee
blocked from taking case to UN by Court of Appeal

Archie has relied on mechanical ventilation
since being admitted to hospital on 7 April.]

https://news.sky.com/story/family-of-brain-damaged-archie-battersbee-blocked-from-taking-case-to-un-by-court-of-appeal-12660018

[Mystic Mock]

Is he still on life support?

Because I'm hoping for some Hollywood style miracle for the kid at this point.

[arista]

Is he still on life support?

Because I'm hoping for some Hollywood style miracle for the kid at this point.


Yes, still on that machine.
Sadly, no change.

[UserSince2005]

taking it to the UN!
These parents need to learn when enough is enough.
They think theyre smarter than the doctors?
And the NHS should send the bill to them when the plug is pulled.

[arista]

United Nations have now issued an injunction
to stop turning off the machine


SkyNewsHD Live

[arista]

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2022/07/29/14/60756283-11061949-Paul_Battersbee_and_Hollie_Dance_outside_the_Royal _Courts_of_Jus-a-16_1659101014249.jpg
The Parents.

[joeysteele]

I honestly don't blame them for wanting to exhaust all avenues of possibility to keep him with them.
This is always a heartbreaking and cruel situation to be in for anyone, never mind parents.

I'd support them all the way myself.

It's hard to let go of anyone in this situation.
The turmoil their minds must be in is likely beyond imagining.



.

[joeysteele]

I just hope one day they can find some peace whatever the outcome.


.

[UserSince2005]

There’s only one outcome to all this. The plug will be pulled sooner or later. Right now they are just bed blocking someone else from getting the treatment they need

[UserSince2005]

There’s only one outcome to all this. The plug will be pulled sooner or later. Right now they are just bed blocking someone else from getting the treatment they need

[Zizu]

It’s all so very sad


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[joeysteele]

It’s all so very sad


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Desperately so Zizu.

[Mystic Mock]

Yes, still on that machine.
Sadly, no change.

It's honestly such a sad situation for everyone involved.

[Mystic Mock]

taking it to the UN!
These parents need to learn when enough is enough.
They think theyre smarter than the doctors?
And the NHS should send the bill to them when the plug is pulled.

I'm hoping that this is some wicked form of Dark Comedy?

[bots]

it's not going to change though, the child isn't going to recover, the focus should be on saving the living

[arista]

Sad News

Possibly tomorrow after 2PM
they could turn the machine, keeping the lad alive, off.


[Archie Battersbee: Government backs
UN bid to stop boy's life support treatment being ended]


https://news.sky.com/story/archie-battersbee-government-backs-un-bid-to-stop-boys-life-support-treatment-being-ended-12663116

[bots]

the life support is not keeping him alive because he is brain stem dead.

[Crimson Dynamo]

so sad

poor family

[arista]

the life support is not keeping him alive because he is brain stem dead.


Yes sad.


Just pumping his Heart



No wonder they are at this tragic Conclusion

[bots]

i know how i would feel as a parent, but the sad fact is that the parents are making it into their own living hell by prolonging something that is inevitable

[AnnieK]

i know how i would feel as a parent, but the sad fact is that the parents are making it into their own living hell by prolonging something that is inevitable

They are, but as a parent what else would you do? I know if it were mine, I couldn't say yes switch him off. He is gone, and as an outsider its easy to say its inevitable but I am sure if you are living it, it isn't that black and white

[joeysteele]

They are, but as a parent what else would you do? I know if it were mine, I couldn't say yes switch him off. He is gone, and as an outsider its easy to say its inevitable but I am sure if you are living it, it isn't that black and white

My feelings exactly Annie.

It's desperately sad but one thing his family can't be left thinking is that they didn't explore and go down every avenue possible.

They are being asked to agree to stop their son's heart beating.
I cannot even try to imagine the trauma in their minds and emotions too.
Just contemplating that.

To them, his heart is beating, it was when he was taken unconscious to hospital.
They don't see it as it's only machinery keeping his heart going.

I'd be supporting THEIR wishes at present.
It's heartbreaking

[Redway]

They are, but as a parent what else would you do? I know if it were mine, I couldn't say yes switch him off. He is gone, and as an outsider its easy to say its inevitable but I am sure if you are living it, it isn't that black and white

100%, Annie. It’s devastating all-round.

[arista]

The Appeal Court Hearing is at 11AM
this morning


[The Court of Appeal hearing is scheduled
for 11:00 BST - three hours before care
is due to end at 14:00.]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-62373605


https://news.sky.com/story/archie-battersbee-government-backs-un-bid-to-stop-boys-life-support-treatment-being-ended-12663116

[arista]

Large Photo
Mum with Archie
a year or so back

https://e3.365dm.com/22/06/2048x1152/skynews-archie-battersbee-hollie-dance_5798657.jpg?20220608145456

[Mystic Mock]

They are, but as a parent what else would you do? I know if it were mine, I couldn't say yes switch him off. He is gone, and as an outsider its easy to say its inevitable but I am sure if you are living it, it isn't that black and white

Exactly this.

We as outsiders can see it from a more clinical point of view.

[Gusto Brunt]

The NHS doctors, chiefs and Judges who want this boy's life support turned off, are a disgrace.

The amount of money the NHS wastes every day is a crime in itself.

They say turn off the kid's life support. Basically, they're saying he doesn't matter. His life is worthless. But if he'd been someone like a Royal, life support would never be turned off.

There are loads of cases worldwide where people have thought to have 1% survival but have miraculously recovered.

It's all about money. :mad:

[arista]

The Barts Hospital
is to turn the Life Support Machine off today
they have stated

[bots]

12:00 tomorrow is the new time set

[arista]

12:00 tomorrow is the new time set


Yes, the new time granted.




No idea what they can change?

[bots]

Yes, the new time granted.




No idea what they can change?

it's to give the family time to say goodbye in a dignified manner

[arista]

it's to give the family time to say goodbye in a dignified manner


That sounds OK
so long as they accept the new time,

[hijaxers]

Sadly the family have lost in court ~ so it will be inevitable now.

[joeysteele]

I'm actually stunned by the Judges decision today.

I can't see what the problem could or should have been to give the time for the UN appeal to look into this.
It seems odd Judges went against that.

I know it's life support but it is ONLY 3 months about since he was found unconscious.
That's not a greatly long period as to life support.

My heart totally goes out to the family.
To end Archie's existence while they clearly are not ready to accept that .
Plus still in likely intense shock and emotional trauma too.
Sorry, I think the medical team and Judges are WRONG to not allow them the time to exhaust all possible avenues of appeal.

This UN one would have probably been the last channel they could have gone down.

Why Judges would dismiss that seems to me extremely ill judged all through.

Bless the lad.
How the family move on from this when they are so traumatised is beyond me.
Bless them too.
They must be really physically, emotionally and mentality exhausted.

[Kazanne]

I'm actually stunned by the Judges decision today.

I can't see what the problem could or should have been to give the time for the UN appeal to look into this.
It seems odd Judges went against that.

I know it's life support but it is ONLY 3 months about since he was found unconscious.
That's not a greatly long period as to life support.

Me heart totally goes out to the family.
To end Archie's existence while they clearly are not ready to accept that .
Plus still in likely intense shock and emotional trauma too.
Sorry, I think the medical team and Judges are WRONG to not allow them the time to exhaust all possible avenues of appeal.

This UN one would have probably been the last channel they could have gone down.

Why Judges would dismiss that seems to me extremely ill judged all through.

Bless the lad.
How the family move on from this when they are so traumatised is beyond me.
Bless them too.
They must be really physically, emotionally and mentality exhausted.

I agree Joey,If it was one of mine I would never want to give up,where theres life theres hope and you do hear of people coming round after a year or more,I would never want to be full of "What ifs" I feel so sorry for them,that his life has been taken out of their hands.

[joeysteele]

I agree Joey,If it was one of mine I would never want to give up,where theres life theres hope and you do hear of people coming round after a year or more,I would never want to be full of "What ifs" I feel so sorry for them,that his life has been taken out of their hands.


Hello Kazanne :wavey:

That's exactly it, they will be full of what ifs.
All through their lives now.

Long after these medics have got their way.
I agree too 3 months is no way a long time and in my view nothing like enough for the family.

I think the courts thus far and the Judges have acted very insensitively and wrongly on this traumatic and heartbreaking case.

[Cherie]

It’s far too short a time ...awful for the family

[Crimson Dynamo]

Imagine the poor Mum the second she awakes tomorrow

and realises

horrific :sad:

[Liam-]

The poor lad has been brain dead since April/May, he’s already dead, keeping him on life support doesn’t make any logistical sense and I know, obviously and understandably that his parents won’t be thinking logically at this time, but I unfortunately think they are being exploited by people who want exposure, they are obviously in the denial phase and who can blame them? But the attacks on the staff who, without a doubt in my mind, have worked tirelessly to do everything that they can possibly do for their son, are completely unwarranted, publicly calling this decision an ‘orchestrated execution’ is beyond insulting and dangerous.

It’s obviously an excruciating time for them and no parent should have to go through losing a child, but they’ve already lost him and now someone who actually needs the equipment can have the chance to make the recovery this boy won’t

[AnnieK]

Imagine the poor Mum the second she awakes tomorrow

and realises

horrific :sad:

I doubt she'll sleep. It will be the longest and shortest hours of her life. I can't imagine what I would do. I know I'd want to go with him.

I completely understand that medically it looks hopeless, but who wouldn't look for a miracle if it were their child.

Such a hopeless time for them.....they will feel its a countdown to their own execution. To knowingly watch the machinery be removed that is keeping your child alive must be the single worst thing a human could ever see. I would feel I had failed him on every level and then allowed his death.

I am sure it is terribly difficult for the medical staff, their jobs are to preserve life so to not be able to save a child must be gut wrenching for them too.

Such a sad, painful situation for everyone.

[bots]

the problem is that archie is brain stem dead. There isn't any coming back from that. He isn't being kept alive now because the reality is that he is dead. They can keep a heart pumping but there is no chance of recovery

[Mystic Mock]

This is an awful situation for both the parents and the Doctors to be in.

[rusticgal]

the problem is that archie is brain stem dead. There isn't any coming back from that. He isn't being kept alive now because the reality is that he is dead. They can keep a heart pumping but there is no chance of recovery

…and sadly that is the reality. However as a parent you cling to whatever hope you can..it’s human nature…but there will be little or no quality of life.
It’s just tragic..

[arista]

Supreme Court has now Stopped the Machine turn off
for today.

All Media.

[UserSince2005]

He'll never know that BB will be back :sad:

[arista]

He'll never know that BB will be back :sad:


He is aged 12.

[Alf]

A great mother.

Whatever happens the mother has done everything and more to save her son.

[arista]

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/D371/production/_124792145_hi076067934.jpg

[joeysteele]

I find this case devastating and heartbreaking.
I'd have to support his family.

After the time passed they shouldn't be left with ANY, 'what ifs'.

[bots]

there aren't any what ifs joey, the lad is brain stem dead. It's devastating for the parents, and they are being egged on and funded by a group that has their own agenda.

[UserSince2005]

They’re still finding ways to prolong this agony? Would someone just turn the machine off and give this poor boy some rest.

[joeysteele]

there aren't any what ifs joey, the lad is brain stem dead. It's devastating for the parents, and they are being egged on and funded by a group that has their own agenda.

There's is one now very big, what if.

The Court after the government asked the court to hear the appeal from the UN source.
Then refused time for that.

That, what if, will now likely haunt the Mother and family forever.

It may well be hopeless but I can't see what possibly another period of time given for that UN to fully look at the case, I can't see the justification to refuse that.
If only for the family's needs.

That outside UN source reaching probably the same conclusion could have however helped the Mother and family to now accept this heartbreaking loss slightly more.

That will now likely be the biggest 'what if' of Archie's Mother and family's lives for all time.

[Liam-]

there aren't any what ifs joey, the lad is brain stem dead. It's devastating for the parents, and they are being egged on and funded by a group that has their own agenda.

Yep, unfortunate people are exploiting their grief and it’s sad, I find it even worse that a lot of the public are buying into it and feeding the false hope

[Liam-]

https://twitter.com/skynews/status/1554492888393859072?s=21

[arista]

Yes, the Family want him moved to a hospice?

[arista]

Later today or tomorrow
they can turn off the machine

[Liam-]

I’m afraid to say that at this point, they are very clearly putting their grief ahead of their sons dignity

[Kazanne]

Kate Garraway said this morning that she fought for her husband and look what happened there ,strange things happen in these circumstances sometimes, you just never know.

[arista]

"the lad is brain stem dead"


Has any ever come back from that?

[joeysteele]

Absolutely devastating and heartbreaking but I hold only admiration for the family trying to take on this Trust.

A much better way is needed to deal with these tragedies other than the Courts.

I'll never understand why even despite the apparent hopelessness of the case.
Why the UN appeal route couldn't have been seen through.
For both of the Trust and family.

As the one last avenue of even just for the family to be sure.
Because clearly the family have now no faith in the Trust.
Plus now they're likely feeling there's no justice for ordinary families in this situation against the powerful machinery of Hospitals and Trusts.

Heartbreaking for the parents and family.
That ALL their pleas are dismissed by Trusts and backed up by a legal system that seems inadequate.

I do understand this is a hopeless and tragic situation for Archie.
Whatever the rights and wrongs may be deemed to be.
However for me, his parents are his parents, they are his next of kin.
When he cannot speak for himself, they are his voice.

To override that in my view is cruelty.
The cruelty to his family is now to be severely increased further.

Bless Archie on this heartbreaking tragic end to his life.
My heart too goes out to his family.
My admiration for their efforts is immeasurable.
I hope they can come to terms with this tragedy and one day get to grieve as near is possibly able for them to.

[bots]

Kate Garraway said this morning that she fought for her husband and look what happened there ,strange things happen in these circumstances sometimes, you just never know.

not when someone is brain stem dead Kaz, that is the last place you will see life as someone passes. If there is no life there, then it's over. They have all sorts of specialised equipment for testing, it's not something that is ever in doubt and it is always final

[Liam-]

Kate Garraway said this morning that she fought for her husband and look what happened there ,strange things happen in these circumstances sometimes, you just never know.

Her husband wasn’t dead

[Crimson Dynamo]

A person who's brain dead is legally confirmed as dead.

[AnnieK]

not when someone is brain stem dead Kaz, that is the last place you will see life as someone passes. If there is no life there, then it's over. They have all sorts of specialised equipment for testing, it's not something that is ever in doubt and it is always final

Yeah she said she never actually faced the question but had prepared for the fight but said she had questioned whether she would be fighting for him or herself.

I hope to God never to have to face such a thing or anyone I know....watching a loved one pass its brutal and devastating but I don't know how you come back from it being your kid. :sad: I know people do get through it, buts its something I wouldn't wish on anyone

[arista]

['They're executing my child': Archie Battersbee's
mother vows to 'fight to the bitter end' after
Supreme Court judges' 'shameful' decision to allow
medics to turn off life support of her 'brain dead' 12-year-old son]

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2022/08/02/17/60991219-11073609-image-a-19_1659459433933.jpg

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11073609/Archie-Battersbees-life-support-switched-off.html

[Kazanne]

not when someone is brain stem dead Kaz, that is the last place you will see life as someone passes. If there is no life there, then it's over. They have all sorts of specialised equipment for testing, it's not something that is ever in doubt and it is always final

It's awful for the family they must be clinging to everything, If he is brain stem dead I guess there is no hope but as a parent it would be so hard to accept.:wavey:

[Crimson Dynamo]

['They're executing my child': Archie Battersbee's
mother vows to 'fight to the bitter end' after
Supreme Court judges' 'shameful' decision to allow
medics to turn off life support of her 'brain dead' 12-year-old son]

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2022/08/02/17/60991219-11073609-image-a-19_1659459433933.jpg

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11073609/Archie-Battersbees-life-support-switched-off.html

They are not executing anyone. Language like that serves no purpose other than a salacious tabloid..

[bots]

As a very vulnerable person, she has been brainwashed by religious nutters. They need to be shut down so that they cant inflict this sort of pain on anyone else

[joeysteele]

The NHS doctors, chiefs and Judges who want this boy's life support turned off, are a disgrace.

The amount of money the NHS wastes every day is a crime in itself.

They say turn off the kid's life support. Basically, they're saying he doesn't matter. His life is worthless. But if he'd been someone like a Royal, life support would never be turned off.

There are loads of cases worldwide where people have thought to have 1% survival but have miraculously recovered.

It's all about money. :mad:


As I read back through this thread and came across this post of yours.

I have to say I agree with all of you say, particularly your 3rd points.


.

[bots]

people really aren't understanding that the poor lad is dead, he isn't in a coma, he can't recover

[Liam-]

Any abuse or harm that comes the way of the doctors and nurses who have no doubt worked their fingers to the bone to do everything in their power to help these people’s child, despite the medical outcome being what it is, will be the direct responsibility of this boys parents and the people behind the scenes hyping them up and deliberately feeding them false hope for their own agendas.

They need people to help them with their grief, not to fight a battle that’s already been lost.

[Liam-]

people really aren't understanding that the poor lad is dead, he isn't in a coma, he can't recover

You can guarantee they haven’t even bothered to read about any of the facts of this poor boys condition, just another bandwagon to jump on, an obviously very sad and emotionally charged one, but a bandwagon all the same

[arista]

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2022/08/01/16/60840473-11069567-Doctors_have_been_given_permission_to_turn_off_Arc hie_s_life_sup-m-97_1659368716878.jpg

[arista]

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2022/08/01/16/59017707-11069567-Archie_has_not_regained_consciousness_after_he_was _found_unrespo-m-95_1659368082183.jpg

Better times

[joeysteele]

people really aren't understanding that the poor lad is dead, he isn't in a coma, he can't recover

Of course we do.
Those of us on the outside of this tragedy.

However it's fairly clear his Mother and family are in both shock at the tragedy that brought him to hospital.
Plus now they're told by hospital and courts they NEED to and MUST agree to take away what's keeping him breathing.

I have no idea how I'd feel in their tragic heartbreak but if I had a son, I'd want to be doing likely all they have tried to do.
No matter the hopelessness.

When you're in dep shock and emotional trauma, probably understanding isn't the strongest thing about anyone.
To criticise the Mother and family in their distress and shock only would add on more agony.
The timing needs to be right for both.
That's what it seems is NOT really being understood.

[Gusto Brunt]

It's murder in my eyes. It's simply not long enough since the accident on April 7th.

[bots]

It's murder in my eyes. It's simply not long enough since the accident on April 7th.

the boy is dead already, to use phrases like murder is absurd

[Gusto Brunt]

the boy is dead already, to use phrases like murder is absurd

Dead when they switch off life support.

[Liam-]

He’s already dead, the only thing keeping his heart beating is the machine, you can’t kill someone that is already dead, he’s been dead for months, his parents have been aware that he’s dead for months, they are stripping the poor boy of every ounce of dignity while they fight for their ‘right’ to not have to grieve, at this point, it’s selfish

[rusticgal]

Dead when they switch off life support.


….because it’s only the life SUPPORT machine that is actually keeping him alive. If you cannot survive without a life support machine then you are dead. It’s tragic but it’s simple.
We can only hope he continues to breathe unaided…but I really think the experts know this is just not going to be the case. No professional Doctor would make this decision if there was a glimmer of hope :shrug:

[arista]

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/157BD/production/_126179978_metro030822pdf.png.webp

[arista]

The Machine is due to be turned off
at 11AM today.

Unless another 9AM legal
court, can delay it.


GMBHD itv Live

[Mystic Mock]

The Machine is due to be turned off
at 11AM today.

Unless another 9AM legal
court, can delay it.


GMBHD itv Live

The poor family having to go through this.

[joeysteele]

The poor family having to go through this.

An absolute living nightmare Mock.

Bless Archie as I said before.
I'll always though admire the family's efforts here.
While in shock and the emotional trauma they're in too.

His Mother gave birth and life to him.
How can she while in shock and deep emotional stress come to terms with this unless she was left believing she'd done everything possible.

I certainly won't condemn her.
If I'd been in Archie's condition as a child I've no doubt both my parents and family would have acted the same as Archie's.

This case is really tragic.
There needs to be much better ways to progress to anyone's final breath.
Than how this has gone.
Courts are bound by law not emotion.
Courts shouldn't be the way but hospitals and Trusts need to be more publicly accountable too.

So some other means of resolving deadlock on when life support ends, really needs looking at as to where time is given.
Not indefinite time but certainly more time for loved ones to accept and come to terms with the situation.

I know Trusts can be too clinical and even cold.
Not the medics but sadly the Trusts can often help fuel division not heal it.

[arista]

Again European Court
Delay.

No Turn Off
from his life support, today,


[Archie's mother said she was "relieved" the new application was made.]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-62403993

[Liam-]

Those Christian ‘lawyers’ and the media have a lot to answer for over this, taking advantage of a grieving family to push their own agendas, it’s sickening

[bots]

Some background on the CLC

Some people will not have come across the Christian Legal Centre (CLC) until the Alfie Evans case. Others will know something of their history. What the Alfie Evans case has done is cast light on what one might call the modus operandi of the CLC and some serious and pressing questions about the roles of those involved and, where they are actually lawyers, their professional ethics.

I don’t propose to comment on the desperately sad Alfie Evans case itself. The poor child has now died. One cannot attach any blame for what has happened to the parents, either. Faced with a tragic and appalling situation, it is hardly surprising that they would turn to any people who seemed to be offering possible alternatives.

Nor do I propose to comment on the political and religious views espoused by the CLC (and their ‘parent’, Christian Concern), save to note for anyone who has not encountered them that they are against the following: baking Gay cakes, being a gay couple staying in a B&B, abortion (in any circumstances), registrars having to conduct gay marriages, embryonic human stem cell research, being transexual (at any age), and for being able to wear visible religious jewellery in a job which required no visible jewellery. One suspects that if if they could find a legal argument for banning divorce or masturbation, no matter how poor the argument, the High Court would be being asked to rule.

But, on to the practice questions.

Who are CLC?

They are a private limited company. They are NOT a legal practice, or ABS. They are NOT a charity (so no loophole there).

[Update: The memorandum of association sets out the CLC are a non-profit company. There is therefore a question whether they can carry out reserved legal activities under the s.23 Legal Services Act 2007 exemption (which was intended for Law Centres and Trade Unions). As a side point, the memorandum states that the minimum number of directors required is two. As far as I can see, there has been only one director since 2013.]

The majority of shares/voting rights are held by Mrs Andrea Rose Minichiello Williams, who is also the sole director. She lists her occupation as ‘Barrister’. We’ll come back to that.

Why is this important? Well, it means that CLC have no right or ability whatsoever to act for or represent clients in litigation in the courts. (the issue might be a bit different in the tribunals, but we’ll leave that aside.)

There is a lot more on them at the link below, but they are basically dodgy af


https://nearlylegal.co.uk/2018/04/on-the-naughty-step-the-questionable-ethics-of-the-christian-legal-centre/

[Gusto Brunt]

I heard countries like Japan and Turkey have been in contact with the parents and they think they could help Archie.

It would be criminal if any UK court or doctor refused to send Archie out to another country for treatment.:fist:

[UserSince2005]

I heard countries like Japan and Turkey have been in contact with the parents and they think they could help Archie.

It would be criminal if any UK court or doctor refused to send Archie out to another country for treatment.:fist:

turkey? the only thing they could do is get him some Turkey teeth so he can die with a smile.

[bots]

If Japan can truly bring the dead back to life, I can see them being in very high demand in the future

[Liam-]

Even if they decided to do the trip to ‘help’ him, he wouldn’t make the trip, there is nothing anybody can do for him, the medical evidence shows that his brain is completely, irreversibly dead, his organs are shutting down, his parents and the media are purposefully misrepresenting this poor boys prognosis, he is already dead, the abuse his body is being put through now because of his parents is completely selfish and unfair, it’s time to start treating him with the respect he deserves in death

[Mystic Mock]

An absolute living nightmare Mock.

Bless Archie as I said before.
I'll always though admire the family's efforts here.
While in shock and the emotional trauma they're in too.

His Mother gave birth and life to him.
How can she while in shock and deep emotional stress come to terms with this unless she was left believing she'd done everything possible.

I certainly won't condemn her.
If I'd been in Archie's condition as a child I've no doubt both my parents and family would have acted the same as Archie's.

This case is really tragic.
There needs to be much better ways to progress to anyone's final breath.
Than how this has gone.
Courts are bound by law not emotion.
Courts shouldn't be the way but hospitals and Trusts need to be more publicly accountable too.

So some other means of resolving deadlock on when life support ends, really needs looking at as to where time is given.
Not indefinite time but certainly more time for loved ones to accept and come to terms with the situation.

I know Trusts can be too clinical and even cold.
Not the medics but sadly the Trusts can often help fuel division not heal it.

I agree with you 100% Joey.

I also think whoever started this challenge needs to be investigated by the Police.

[arista]

Thank You bots

For posting the background of the Religion CLC.

[arista]

European Court of Human Rights
has denied the Battersbee family appeal.

[arista]

[The European Court of Human Rights
says it will not interfere with the decisions
of the national courts to allow the withdrawal
of Archie Battersbee's life-sustaining treatment.]

https://news.sky.com/story/european-court-will-not-interfere-with-decision-to-withdraw-archie-battersbees-life-support-12665026

[arista]

Archie's Life Support Machine
is now due to start turning off at 11AM.

[joeysteele]

I do hope the Court does one thing more compassionately and rule the family can have Archie in a Hospice for the end of this tragic heartbreaking situation.

To FORCE his Parents and family to have to see him go in this Hospital which has brought such hurt and emotional stress to them.
Would in my view be a gross act of cruelty.

[AnnieK]

I do hope the Court does one thing more compassionately and rule the family can have Archie in a Hospice for the end of this tragic heartbreaking situation.

To FORCE his Parents and family to have to see him go in this Hospital which has brought such hurt and emotional stress to them.
Would in my view be a gross act of cruelty.

I hope so too. I guess a lot will ride on if they can stabilise him enough to move him. It could be traumatic for the family if he were to pass on the journey.

Hospice care is amazing and so much more comfortable for everyone.

Such a heartbreaking time for the whole family, my heart breaks for them

[joeysteele]

I hope so too. I guess a lot will ride on if they can stabilise him enough to move him. It could be traumatic for the family if he were to pass on the journey.

Hospice care is amazing and so much more comfortable for everyone.

Such a heartbreaking time for the whole family, my heart breaks for them


Yes I agree Annie.

Hospice care and also attitude to the loved ones too, is a much more compassionate and in my view appropriately right environment at these tragic and heartbreaking losses of vital members of families.

I can well understand Archie's Parents and Family wanting him now away from that place.

[arista]

No Hospice
it is too dangerous to move him,
The pipe in his throat is damaging him.


A Doctor has reported.

[joeysteele]

No Hospice
it is too dangerous to move him,
The pipe in his throat is damaging him.


A Doctor has reported.

Is that the DOCTORS and hospital view or has the Court ruled yet ??
I'd better put the news on and catch up.

No surprise that this Hospital would be trying to block any move anywhere after recent events.

They're going to remove it anyhow.

[arista]

Is that the DOCTORS and hospital view or has the Court ruled yet ??
I'd better put the news on and catch up.

No surprise that this Hospital would be trying to block any move anywhere after recent events.

They're going to remove it anyhow.


I do not think a High Court
can agree on his safety and care.


The Doctors & the Hospital
are above that.

[joeysteele]

I do not think a High Court
can agree on his safety and care.


The Doctors & the Hospital
are above that.

Nonsense.

I'm watching GB news now.
The presenter who had her husband suffer a sports injury to the brain.
Has said 4 months is NOT a long period re brain injuries.

That's right.

Why are the Hospital not being more understanding rather than being always obstructive.

[arista]

Nonsense.

I'm watching GB news now.
The presenter who had her husband suffer a sports injury to the brain.
Has said 4 months is NOT a long period re brain injuries.

That's right.

Why are the Hospital not being more understanding rather than being always obstructive.


Yes Great Story they have
but in the case of this 12 year old
is not the same.

[joeysteele]

Yes Great Story they have
but in the case of this 12 year old
is not the same.

It's not that wildly different either.

[Liam-]

Archie hasn’t got a brain injury, his brain is literally dead, the scenarios are completely different, read the court documents that describe, in vivid detail, this boys medical status, the poor kid is being treated like a bloody show pony at this point, it’s about time people put his dignity ahead of everything else

[bots]

We had this situation with that other poor lad a few months ago and the Christian Legal Centre were involved in that too and advised their client wrongly creating an almighty mess

Parents do lose their right to determine what happens to the child when it is not in the best interests of the child. That is the simple truth that is always applied in these situations.

No-one can deny that hospice care would be preferable to hospital care if it is appropriate, but that only applies in certain circumstances, not all. I don't think anyone on this forum is qualified to answer that question, we can only offer an opinion, that's the simple reality

[Liam-]

I think the fact of the matter is that his parents and the family, that Christian group, the media and all of their social media backers are not thinking or doing anything with Archie as their main priority, this isn’t about the rights of parents in denial not wanting to accept that their kid is dead, this whole thing is about a child needing to be treated fairy and with the dignity anybody deserves when they pass, what they are continuing to put this boys body through, while only doing what’s in their best interest, rather than his, is to me disgusting and selfish.

And to openly accuse the people who would have spent months bending over backwards to give their son the best care possible, despite him already being dead, of abuse is reprehensible I’m afraid

[rusticgal]

I do hope the Court does one thing more compassionately and rule the family can have Archie in a Hospice for the end of this tragic heartbreaking situation.

To FORCE his Parents and family to have to see him go in this Hospital which has brought such hurt and emotional stress to them.
Would in my view be a gross act of cruelty.


How can you say the Hospital has bought so much hurt and emotional stress...they have clearly done everything they can for the little boy and the courts have proved that the decision that had to be made about Life Support being withdrawn was the correct one...a decision they most likely have to make on a daily basis much to the detrement of families.
If anything the family here have shown little respect for the Professionals who have done everything they can for their son...to call them all excecutioners is just beyond belief.

[arista]

3:30PM, the Next Court announcement
appeal for hospice

[joeysteele]

3:30PM, the Next Court announcement
appeal for hospice

The law doesn't get it right every time.
Sadly they likely won't this time either.
For Archie's family they should but I doubt they will.

It wouldn't surprise me to one day find out this is more the hospital Trust's directive here.
I haven't much faith in Hospital Trust's.
In fact if I had power I'd clear out all the Trust managements and their overstaffed offices.

Thankfully these cases are rare but for me the Courts should never be the way to break deadlock with hospitals which become embroiled in the grievances of loved ones.
The loved ones, who are there in the hospital day after day, night after night , on the receiving end and know better than anyone the wrongs they are seeing and hearing.

[Liam-]

Sorry, but you’re completely wrong on this one I’m afraid

[joeysteele]

Sorry, but you’re completely wrong on this one I’m afraid

If you're addressing me, I'm sorry but I don't think you have it right actually.

I'm happy to take the family's position here.
It's not just the Mother's position it's the family.

You and others can think me wrong, however that doesn't make me so.

In these cases there's no real winners.
IF this was my son however, I'd be doing much the same as Archie's Mother, Father and family.
That's my position.
Rightly or wrongly.

[bots]

it's a very emotive subject and that's why it's good to have the court system and the multiple avenues of appeal. At some point however, emotion has to be taken out of the decision. Multiple different courts under multiple jurisdictions have all found against the parents. There has to be acceptance of that situation at some point

[Liam-]

I think it’s morally wrong to put the feelings of his parents, above the boys rights to dignity in death, because this is what it’s all about, it’s not about doing what’s best for him, it’s about doing what the parents think is best for their own emotions.

They are being taken advantage of by a Christian group who are only interested in pushing their own religious agenda and the right wing press who wants to further erode the public trust in the NHS so they’re Tory overlords can continue demolishing it, it’s time to let these parents grieve properly without turning this poor kids situation into a bloody spectacle

[arista]

3:30PM Hearing is delayed

[Liam-]

it's a very emotive subject and that's why it's good to have the court system and the multiple avenues of appeal. At some point however, emotion has to be taken out of the decision. Multiple different courts under multiple jurisdictions have all found against the parents. There has to be acceptance of that situation at some point

This is why these procedures exist, because people who have a say in how a person is treated medically shouldn’t have unwavering power, especially when it’s clear that they are not acting in the best interests of the patient.

The attacks on the staff that have looked after this boy for months from his parents, the family and social media supporters have been actually disgusting, his mother has accused them of starving him because he was losing weight, they’ve accused them of ‘choreographed execution’ and today she’s in the media accusing them of giving him no care whatsoever, she’s a grieving mother who’s having her strings pulled and the show has gone on for too long, she now needs to spend her time with her son before the machine is turned off rather than trying to lay blame at everyone’s feet, it’s shameful

[Gusto Brunt]

This is something you couldn't make up.

Archie's mum and dad want to move him to a hospice but doctors - get this - have said there is significant risk to Archie if an attempt to move him is made.

Hang on, are these the same doctors who want to switch off life support meaning death to Archie??

Unbelieavable.

[joeysteele]

This is something you couldn't make up.

Archie's mum and dad want to move him to a hospice but doctors - get this - have said there is significant risk to Archie if an attempt to move him is made.

Hang on, are these the same doctors who want to switch off life support meaning death to Archie??

Unbelieavable.

Yes, they are.
I'll echo your last word there, unbelievable.

[rusticgal]

This is something you couldn't make up.

Archie's mum and dad want to move him to a hospice but doctors - get this - have said there is significant risk to Archie if an attempt to move him is made.

Hang on, are these the same doctors who want to switch off life support meaning death to Archie??

Unbelieavable.


Well unless you are a medical professional then you would not know the significance of the comment.
I guess maybe there is a possibility that moving him could mean his Life Support system would not work effectively enough to get him to the Hospice without his organs failing....
I am no medical expert but it could be a complex move.

[arista]

They won't move him
it is too dangerous.

[Liam-]

I say at this point, just let them take him and when his parents finally realise that he’s not breathing on his own, in the back of a bus and he has an even more undignified death than the one they’ve already forced him to have, they’ll have nobody to blame but themselves

[rusticgal]

They won't move him
it is too dangerous.

Its not so much its dangerous...its just that they are letting it be known that this isnt as simple as it sounds for the parents to have him where they want him when he comes off the ventilator.

[arista]

Its not so much its dangerous...its just that they are letting it be known that this isnt as simple as it sounds for the parents to have him where they want him when he comes off the ventilator.


It is not the Hospital
at fault,

He did the Online Challenge
and sadly it has more or less killed him

[bots]

it comes down to the dignity of the patient in the end, and the reason this has gone to court is because the patient can't speak for himself. This case is going down a similar path to that of Alfie and it's the same religious fanatics driving it. They nor the lads parents are considering his dignity now, and are irrationally lashing out at anyone that says what they are doing isn't right

[Kazanne]

They won't move him
it is too dangerous.

Why is it dangerous arista if hes already dead ?

[Nicky91]

yes its a dangerous online challenge

i feel sad for the parents, but he just shouldn't have been doing that


could've been prevented :(

[Crimson Dynamo]

Brain death is legal death

If someone's brain dead, the damage is irreversible and, according to UK law, the person has died.

It can be confusing to be told someone has brain death, because their life support machine will keep their heart beating and their chest will still rise and fall with every breath from the ventilator.

But they will not ever regain consciousness or start breathing on their own again. They have already died.

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/brain-death/#:~:text=Brain%20death%20(also%20known%20as,is%20l egally%20confirmed%20as%20dead.

[bots]

Why is it dangerous arista if hes already dead ?

it's not dangerous in the traditional sense of the word, it's not going to change the final outcome. At this point, i can envisage a scenario where the lad is live on tv with his parents at his bedside showing how much they care where the hospital don't. I hope i'm proved wrong, but thats why i am talking about patient dignity

[arista]

Why is it dangerous arista if hes already dead ?

Because the pipes down his throat
damage so much.


That is what a Doctor said.

[AnnieK]

Because the pipes down his throat
damage so much.


That is what a Doctor said.

If he's brain dead though, he won't feel it.

Sadly, its also a waste of resources to move him and the cost involved will be quite high. The trust will be thinking of that too. A lot of things cone down to money.

I feel for the parent's massively and am sure if I were in their shoes I would be feeling and doing the same. They will be existing on next to no sleep, be consumed with grief and getting advice from dubious (from the looks of them) sources. However, I agree they are lashing out at the wrong people, the medical staff will have lost sleep over this too I'm sure....they train to save people, not to let them die :sad:

At this point, I am sure the family will be better trying to be with Archie as much as possible and to just show him their love.

I can't blame the parents, I can't blame the medical staff and I can't blame the courts. The situation is heartbreaking. I have had very strong conversations with my son who is almost the same age as Archie....as these crazes terrify me and sadly end like this far too often

[Kazanne]

If he's brain dead though, he won't feel it.

Sadly, its also a waste of resources to move him and the cost involved will be quite high. The trust will be thinking of that too. A lot of things cone down to money.

I feel for the parent's massively and am sure if I were in their shoes I would be feeling and doing the same. They will be existing on next to no sleep, be consumed with grief and getting advice from dubious (from the looks of them) sources. However, I agree they are lashing out at the wrong people, the medical staff will have lost sleep over this too I'm sure....they train to save people, not to let them die :sad:

At this point, I am sure the family will be better trying to be with Archie as much as possible and to just show him their love.

I can't blame the parents, I can't blame the medical staff and I can't blame the courts. The situation is heartbreaking. I have had very strong conversations with my son who is almost the same age as Archie....as these crazes terrify me and sadly end like this far too often

Sadly I agree Annie about the money part,sad times.

[rusticgal]

I read that Archie suffered a Cardiac Arrest moving him for a scan...so I guess any sort of move will risk them not having their final wish.

[Liam-]

Just because he won’t feel the trauma his body goes through in the move, doesn’t mean they should disrespect his body in death by doing it

[UserSince2005]

have turned the bloody thing off yet?

[joeysteele]

Sadly I agree Annie about the money part,sad times.

The Trust is who will be concerned on costs.

The Doctors clearly have believed they've done all they could.

Again I still feel and this case has really upset and saddened me.
I still think I'd be doing much the same as the family.
If it were my son or even in fact a relative or close friend of mine

Tragic and heartbreaking.
A living nightmare for them.

[arista]

Yesterday's Decision
is now due around 10AM

[AnnieK]

Whatever the decision today, I hope the parent's are able to accept it. These constant legal battles are taking away time they could be spending with him and I think in time they could regret that.

Whatever happens, it will be a heartbreaking day for them.

[Oliver_W]

Frankly it's almost ghoulish that a dead body with brain necrosis and body breaking down is being kept going.

[bots]

they lost their son on the day of the accident. What they don't seem to have grasped is that it is the NHS staff that have maintained the lads "life" to the point that there is nothing more they can do for him. There will always be conflicting views on what is best for the lad and that is what the court is there to resolve. The court doesn't make a decision based on emotion, it decides based on facts.

[joeysteele]

I will keep Archie and his family in my thoughts today.

The medics too, they I know hate losing any patients never mind a child of 12.

However, in situations like this when conflict occurs.
There needs to be a better way to deal with that.
Courts deal in law.
There is no law on grief and grieving.

If the Court refuses transfer then I hope some way Archie's family can cope with not having him In a more appropriate environment and just be there as they lose him officially to the end.

For me this is one of the most tragic and heartbreaking cases.
Bless Archie and my thoughts are with his family.
I'd never want to give up without trying everything for any child of mine or any other of my loved ones.

It's a heartbreaking situation and leaving no real winners.
I hope his Parents and family can find some peace now eventually.
For both them and their soon to be officially lost son Archie.

[arista]

Live at the High Court

Archie will not be moved.
while on the life support shutdown

SkyNewsHD Live
GBnewsHD Live

[arista]

BBCnewsHD has caught up

[UserSince2005]

tot up the bill please. i want to know how much this has all cost us.

[arista]

tot up the bill please. i want to know how much this has all cost us.


No, they will not do that.

[AnnieK]

They are lodging another appeal.

[rusticgal]

I dont know if they are being led on by greedy Lawyers or what....however didnt the husband collapse 2 weeks ago under the pressure. They need to now just accept the decisions in the knowledge that they tried their best...and now let Archie rest...its all starting to look a bit ugly.

[AnnieK]

I dont know if they are being led on by greedy Lawyers or what....however didnt the husband collapse 2 weeks ago under the pressure. They need to now just accept the decisions in the knowledge that they tried their best...and now let Archie rest...its all starting to look a bit ugly.

I agree now. I think they have done all that is possible and every court and every expert have now said the same. I understand they want to do all they can but they are now wasting the precious time they have left with their boy. I think they are being badly advised now, it is time to spend every minute with their beautiful boy and let him go.

Heartbreaking

[Crimson Dynamo]

who started this ridiculous tiktok dare anyroad?

[rusticgal]

I agree now. I think they have done all that is possible and every court and every expert have now said the same. I understand they want to do all they can but they are now wasting the precious time they have left with their boy. I think they are being badly advised now, it is time to spend every minute with their beautiful boy and let him go.

Heartbreaking


The thing is with every passing day his body is deteriorating.

[bots]

I don't think the parents are being rational at this point, and I can sympathise with that. I think they picked the wrong advisors and it has turned something that should be private into a media circus

[UserSince2005]

who started this ridiculous tiktok dare anyroad?

its all a load of baloney, i haven't see any tiktok challenges where to have to strangle yourself.

I dont know what was going through archies mind and why he was trying to strangle himself but the whole tiktok thing is a load of rubbish

[Liam-]

The family need to stop being selfish now and out the needs and dignity of this kid before themselves, the spectacle they’ve created around their sons dead body is frankly, nauseating

[AnnieK]

its all a load of baloney, i haven't see any tiktok challenges where to have to strangle yourself.

I dont know what was going through archies mind and why he was trying to strangle himself but the whole tiktok thing is a load of rubbish

Considering 7kids have died doing the challenge its pretty real I'd say.

Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. There are multiple lawsuits ongoing with TikTok because of it.

[arista]

Considering 7kids have died doing the challenge its pretty real I'd say.

Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. There are multiple lawsuits ongoing with TikTok because of it.



Yes Shocking to have 7 kids dead from this challenge

[UserSince2005]

Considering 7kids have died doing the challenge its pretty real I'd say.

Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. There are multiple lawsuits ongoing with TikTok because of it.

Why wasn’t he filming himself at the time? His parents have just jumped to the conclusion because they clearly can’t accept reality.

[AnnieK]

Why wasn’t he filming himself at the time? His parents have just jumped to the conclusion because they clearly can’t accept reality.

How do you know he wasn't? They've never given many details other than he was found with a ligature around his neck. There must be a reason they've linked it to that challenge. :shrug: You said you've never heard of it so there must be something linking it to him otherwise where have they got it from?

[joeysteele]

The family need to stop being selfish now and out the needs and dignity of this kid before themselves, the spectacle they’ve created around their sons dead body is frankly, nauseating

I don't go with all you've said there but I can't say it's not right.

I still sympathise with the Parents and family but I agree it's time to stop the challenges now.

The Courts haven't ever ruled in favour of them.
I think it was right to try to have him moved to a hospice.
However once that was ruled against , I do think they should accept that ruling.

The life support is to end.
He is where he is.
At least they can be with him once his life is officially lost.
They can always hold onto that.

I do agree too that some of the advice has been more unhelpful than not.
I haven't agreed with all you've said on this but I do personally generally respect your views and have taken a lot on board you've said both on this and many other topics too.

[UserSince2005]

How do you know he wasn't? They've never given many details other than he was found with a ligature around his neck. There must be a reason they've linked it to that challenge. :shrug: You said you've never heard of it so there must be something linking it to him otherwise where have they got it from?

The first thing they would have said is that he was filming him if he was. He was clearly a boy with many problems, he was diagnosed with anxiety.

[UserSince2005]

Having read a bit I think this was most likely suicide and the thread title should be changed

[Liam-]

How do you know he wasn't? They've never given many details other than he was found with a ligature around his neck. There must be a reason they've linked it to that challenge. :shrug: You said you've never heard of it so there must be something linking it to him otherwise where have they got it from?

Tbf, his mother has come out with multiple different explanations of what happened that lead up to this and TikTok have come out and say there are no ‘challenges’ on the app that include asphyxiating yourself with a ligament, only ones that are about holding your breath, the amount of different accounts does really throw the explanations into doubt I’m afraid to say

[UserSince2005]

They need to let the poor boy rest now.

[Liam-]

Has anybody seen that picture of the MP using the boys corpse as a photo opportunity? It’s sickening

[Crimson Dynamo]

They need to let the poor boy rest now.

its not about resting they need to stop inflating his chest with air pretending he is alive. he isnt

[Oliver_W]

Having read a bit I think this was most likely suicide and the thread title should be changed

Having read a bit on a quite different forum on which I am a non-registered lurker, I agree that this being suicide seems fairly possible.

[rusticgal]

It’s just a tragedy whether it was suicide or a challenge…I think there is maybe more to it as details have never been revealed.
He needs to be at rest…and the fighting needs to stop. Just let him be at peace.

[arista]

Having read a bit I think this was most likely suicide and the thread title should be changed


No Evidence of that.

It was an Exciting online Challenge
that, a tough young man
thought had no danger.


He was sadly wrong.

[arista]

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/10F7E/production/_126220596_dailyexpress-nc.png

[Mystic Mock]

Has anybody seen that picture of the MP using the boys corpse as a photo opportunity? It’s sickening

I hope that this is a joke?

If it's true then that MP should be ashamed.

[arista]

The Life Support
is to start turning off today, 10AM

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2022/08/05/22/61117295-0-image-m-9_1659733886721.jpg

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11085871/Archie-Battersbees-mum-whats-fuelled-loving-fight-life-support-switched-off.html

[Gusto Brunt]

I've never seen so much determination from doctors and Judges to actually make someone dead. Quite scary actually.

[Oliver_W]

No Evidence of that.
Nothing solid, but that forum had a lot of details they gathered, which makes a compelling case - there were a number of suicide-baiting posts on his social media, coupled with a crappy home and school life and a number of mental health issues, disinterested parents... I'm not gonna say he was attempting suicide, but it looks possible.

I've never seen so much determination from doctors and Judges to actually make someone dead. Quite scary actually.
He's been dead since before he even arrived in hospital.

[AnnieK]

A very sad day for all involved, family and medi al staff.

[bots]

someone with no brain function is not alive

[arista]

someone with no brain function is not alive


Yes, it is all very sad.

[Alf]

I've never seen so much determination from doctors and Judges to actually make someone dead. Quite scary actually.Some people actually listen and do what they say when they tell you to wear a mask and inject yourself with big pharmas vaccines.

[thesheriff443]

its not about resting they need to stop inflating his chest with air pretending he is alive. he isnt

If his heart is still beating he is alive but brain dead.

[thesheriff443]

Some people actually listen and do what they say when they tell you to wear a mask and inject yourself with big pharmas vaccines.

That’s a stupid post.

[Cherie]

As his mother said this morning she did everything she could for her son, and I think hand on heart that is what any one of us would do if we were faced with a similar situation, she will have no regrets as she and her partner fought for him every step of the way

[Alf]

That’s a stupid post.To some yes, to others no.

[joeysteele]

A very sad day for all involved, family and medi al staff.

Devastating and heartbreaking.