Legal smoking age in England could be raised to 21?

[Kate!]

The legal smoking age in England could reportedly be raised from 18 to 21 after a “radical” review into plans to make the country smoke-free by 2030.

An independent review commissioned by the health secretary, Sajid Javid, and led by Javed Khan, the former chief executive of the children’s charity Barnardo’s, is also expected to support new taxes on tobacco company profits, according to*the Telegraph.

Thoughts?

[Swan]

Yes i agree with the legal age of smoking should be raised to 21. I think the same about alcohol too.

[bots]

i think smoking will fade out all on its own with the current measures. I can't remember the last time i was in the company of a smoker

[user104658]

i think smoking will fade out all on its own with the current measures. I can't remember the last time i was in the company of a smoker

That's because they're all vaping, which is potentially no better.

[Liam-]

Good, that’ll do until it’s rightfully banned all together

[GoldHeart]

Remember when it use to be 16... madness . And as mentioned ,I think more people seem to vape now.

[Swan]

Remember when it use to be 16... madness . And as mentioned ,I think more people seem to vape now.

They served me in most shops when i was 13 for ciggies. Early 00's. I've cut right down now, but yeah, insanity.

[GoldHeart]

They served me in most shops when i was 13 for ciggies. Early 00's. I've cut right down now, but yeah, insanity.

I've heard older generations talking about ..how they began smoking at 9 years old :shocked: . Think of their poor little lungs .

[ThomasC]

That's because they're all vaping, which is potentially no better.

4 chemicals, if you want to call vegetable glycol and propolyn glycol chemicals opposed to 4,000 chemicals :shrug:

[Alf]

Everyone is addicted to coffee and tattoo's these days. I'll stick to the ciggies. I'm old skool

[ThomasC]

You do realise that the government got 10.27 billion last year in tax from smokers?

It funds more than costs to treat from illness arising from smoking. It's a gigantic cash cow.

I think it's bull****, just more cancel culture and PC. We've gone from not allowing smoking in pubs, to not having pictures on packets, to cigs not allowed to be displayed, to banning menthol.

I'm an adult so feck right off!! People will do what they want at the end of the day, as much as you try to discourage kids from starting.

It's same with sugar tax, why should I have to suffer because some can't stop filling their holes? Same with drinking!

Not my problem some can't moderate their intake.

Madness.

What next?

[Alf]

You could build a new hospital a year on the tax from smoking.

Smoking is patriotic. I'm doing my duty for my country. You can thank me if you like?

[ThomasC]

I love my vape, but I'm partial to a cigarette and if I'm drinking then I smoke otherwise I vape. I was 30-40 a day in Vegas on the slots.

I'm like a dragon.

[ThomasC]

You could build a new hospital a year on the tax from smoking.

Smoking is patriotic. I'm doing my duty for my country. You can thank me if you like?

Not after your unsavoury comment on my occupation thread :nono:

Little toerag

[Niamh.]

i think smoking will fade out all on its own with the current measures. I can't remember the last time i was in the company of a smokerI agree with this, it's rare to be out with a smoker these days and definitely much less younger people smoke these days too (although I agree with TS that a lot are vapping instead and we don't know the long term implications of that yet) also it's crazy expensive to smoke here now too €15 for a pack.

PS. I'm off them 5 months now [emoji1696] just went cold turkey this time and didn't tell anyone. It hasn't been too bad actually

[Kate!]

I agree with this, it's rare to be out with a smoker these days and definitely much less younger people smoke these days too (although I agree with TS that a lot are vapping instead and we don't know the long term implications of that yet) also it's crazy expensive to smoke here now too €15 for a pack.

PS. I'm off them 5 months now [emoji1696] just went cold turkey this time and didn't tell anyone. It hasn't been to bad actually

Well done Niamh x

[ThomasC]

It really irritates me when the vaping Goonies come out.

I just find the whole comparison so illogical....

It might not be really healthy, but comparing it to smoking is like comparing a gorilla and an ant.

[Niamh.]

Well done Niamh xThanks, need to cut out the **** food now as well that I was using to comfort myself [emoji28]

[Alf]

Smokers are discriminated against. We're a minority. We're forced to go outside in the rain and snow at the pub and at work. They don't let us smoke on the bus or in stadiums. It's evil.

[Niamh.]

It really irritates me when the vaping Goonies come out.

I just find the whole comparison so illogical....

It might not be really healthy, but comparing it to smoking is like comparing a gorilla and an ant.

No need to be so rude Thomas. Vaping is something new and the long term effects aren't known yet, that's just reality.

[ThomasC]

I agree with this, it's rare to be out with a smoker these days and definitely much less younger people smoke these days too (although I agree with TS that a lot are vapping instead and we don't know the long term implications of that yet) also it's crazy expensive to smoke here now too €15 for a pack.

PS. I'm off them 5 months now [emoji1696] just went cold turkey this time and didn't tell anyone. It hasn't been too bad actually

Well done, I sort of quit like years a go and mostly just vape now but will occasionally have a cigarette if around friends that smoke otherwise just vape

[Niamh.]

Well done, I sort of quit like years a go and mostly just vape now but will occasionally have a cigarette if around friends that smoke otherwise just vapeI would love to just have an occasional cigarette but I just can't do that, I'm too all or nothing when it comes to smoking

[ThomasC]

No need to be so rude Thomas. Vaping is something new and the long term effects aren't known yet, that's just reality.

You're very sensitive lately :nono:


So serious.

It's not that new.

It's the tar that causes the most harm on cigarettes.

Whilst maybe not being healthy and potentially could cause damage, people compare them on the scale of smoking which is ridiculous imo.

[Niamh.]

You're very sensitive lately :nono:





So serious.



It's not that new.



It's the tar that causes the most harm on cigarettes.



Whilst maybe not being healthy and potentially could cause damage, people compare them on the scale of smoking which is ridiculous imo.I don't care what adults do and if it gets you off or gets smoking down fair enough but it is the "trendy new version" of smoking to teenagers who have never smoked

[ThomasC]

I would love to just have an occasional cigarette but I just can't do that, I'm too all or nothing when it comes to smoking

I'm like that with food, can't be in the house or I'll eat it, bad food that is. I'm focused at the minute so doing well

I don't care what adults do and if it gets you off or gets smoking down fair enough but it is the "trendy new version" of smoking to teenagers who have never smoked

I think raising the smoking age will not do much.

Even those under 18 find ways to smoke, fake ID, others buying them.

It's also at the detriment, not the increase in age, but other changes that impacts on adults.

Education and ID checks, parental guidance can help to a degree. Peer pressure will always be a thing.

Same with sugar tax and drink.

Tricky one really. It may reduce, but not eradicate the problem of under age smokers.....

[ThomasC]

Alcohol drinkation tax hasn't even come in yet...

Already taxes higher, well manufacturers on soft drinks with sugar....

Sunak’s five-point plan, which takes effect in 2023, will simplify the tax brackets at an overall cost to the Treasury of £555m by 2027. The plans will cut the cost of a range of drinks but increase the duty levied on wine with alcohol content above 11%, such as high-strength ciders and fortified like port and Buckfast.


So because I like a high strength cider I am going to be penalised!

Edit, well not ciders because that would be ridiculous strength, blow me socks off...but I am partial to a bottle of rose.

[GoldHeart]

Alcohol drinkation tax hasn't even come in yet...

Already taxes higher, well manufacturers on soft drinks with sugar....

Sunak’s five-point plan, which takes effect in 2023, will simplify the tax brackets at an overall cost to the Treasury of £555m by 2027. The plans will cut the cost of a range of drinks but increase the duty levied on wine with alcohol content above 11%, such as high-strength ciders and fortified like port and Buckfast.


So because I like a high strength cider I am going to be penalised!

Edit, well not ciders because that would be ridiculous strength, blow me socks off...but I am partial to a bottle of rose.

The highest strength cider I've ever had ..was over 7% alcohol I think. Frosty jack will send you wobbly,if you guzzle too much of it :skull: LOL.

[ThomasC]

The highest strength cider I've ever had ..was over 7% alcohol I think. Frosty jack will send you wobbly,if you guzzle too much of it :skull: LOL.

Ahhh, trip down memory lane and not a good one either. I regularly use to drink frosty jack's. Ewww, what was I thinking. Cheap and nasty.

[UserSince2005]

It should be illegal in public. Fed up of getting fumes in my face as I walk down the street.

[Beso]

https://images.app.goo.gl/BKwosMTyMrwKMCCW8

[ThomasC]

It should be illegal in public. Fed up of getting fumes in my face as I walk down the street.

Cross the pavement? It's a public street meaning it's not just yours, it's the publics'

[MTVN]

You do realise that the government got 10.27 billion last year in tax from smokers?

It funds more than costs to treat from illness arising from smoking. It's a gigantic cash cow.

I think it's bull****, just more cancel culture and PC. We've gone from not allowing smoking in pubs, to not having pictures on packets, to cigs not allowed to be displayed, to banning menthol.

I'm an adult so feck right off!! People will do what they want at the end of the day, as much as you try to discourage kids from starting.

It's same with sugar tax, why should I have to suffer because some can't stop filling their holes? Same with drinking!

Not my problem some can't moderate their intake.

Madness.

What next?

:clap1:

[Redway]

That's because they're all vaping, which is potentially no better.

I only vape CBD.

[Redway]

Good, that’ll do until it’s rightfully banned all together

Why so rightfully though? Why is it the business of non-smokers what smokers choose to do and put in their lungs?

[thesheriff443]

It should be illegal in public. Fed up of getting fumes in my face as I walk down the street.

People can get that close with your big head in the way luv.

[thesheriff443]

Well done niamh
Smokers are easy targets, the air that none smokers breath is full harmful toxins that are produced by people making millions who will continue to do so unregulated

[ThomasC]

People can get that close with your big head in the way luv.

:joker:

[ThomasC]

I only vape CBD.

I should give this a go.

It's suppose to have major benefits.

It might calm me down :joker:

I bought some ages a go but it was a liquid you sprayed on your tongue and was unflavoured....it was vile.

[user104658]

To be fair I largely agree that adults can do what they want with their lungs so long as they're fully informed of the risks, and it doesn't affect others. I smoked (socially, not habitually) through my late teens and Uni, so I'd say about 15 (estimated based on buying a pack of 20 and usually giving a few away) a week for 7 years, which I guess is a fair number of cigarettes. I also wouldn't say I regret it. I enjoyed that period of my life for what it was and got it out of my system :joker:.

[user104658]

What DOES need tackling is the vape issue with kids and young teens. Yes some kids started smoking young but the vape issue is on another level - my daughter has only just started high school and so many kids (12 and 13 year olds) are doing it. FAR more than were smoking at that age when I was young, half my daughters year group seem to be doing it, and we have no idea what the long term consequences are. There are cheap, colourful disposable fruity ones that seem to be practically aimed at kids :think:.

[Oliver_W]

Tbh I think America has the right idea when it comes to allowed ages for things - 21 for smoking and alcohol, 18 for sex.

What DOES need tackling is the vape issue with kids and young teens. Yes some kids started smoking young but the vape issue is on another level - my daughter has only just started high school and so many kids (12 and 13 year olds) are doing it. FAR more than were smoking at that age when I was young, half my daughters year group seem to be doing it, and we have no idea what the long term consequences are. There are cheap, colourful disposable fruity ones that seem to be practically aimed at kids :think:.

I once saw (what I assume was) a joke article that said kids were taking up cigarettes to get them off vapes :joker:

[ThomasC]

What DOES need tackling is the vape issue with kids and young teens. Yes some kids started smoking young but the vape issue is on another level - my daughter has only just started high school and so many kids (12 and 13 year olds) are doing it. FAR more than were smoking at that age when I was young, half my daughters year group seem to be doing it, and we have no idea what the long term consequences are. There are cheap, colourful disposable fruity ones that seem to be practically aimed at kids :think:.

What's the lessee of the two evils;?

Just to throw some research out there;

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/e-cigarettes-around-95-less-harmful-than-tobacco-estimates-landmark-review

https://www.cancerresearchuk.org/health-professional/awareness-and-prevention/e-cigarette-hub-information-for-health-professionals/safety

Although I can't argue that we don't know enough about them although I think it's fair to say they are LESS harmful than traditional cigarettes.

Nicotine is the addiction substance. Just because you vape it doesn't have to contain nicotine. The most harmful of chemicals is tar which you don't get with e cigarettes. Just compare the chemicals in the two, 4 or 4000.

Education plays a big role because there are certain chemicals found in eliquids such as diacytal which can cause lung damage. This is banned in the UK in e liquids, but it's good to have an awareness as there are unregulated liquids.

Vapes have always been quite colourful and more are brought to market as it's supply and demand. For a lot of people it's a hobby from buying mods, making liquids, making coils....and the vast around of liquids and adaptations you can buy.

There's even talk about them being a a smoking cessation aid

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/e-cigarettes-could-be-prescribed-on-the-nhs-in-world-first

A lot like to jump on the bandwagon with this subject, all high and mighty not having the first clue about e cigarettes. Not saying you but just generally.

[ThomasC]

Key findings of the review include:

the current best estimate is that e-cigarettes are around 95% less harmful than smoking
nearly half the population (44.8%) don’t realise e-cigarettes are much less harmful than smoking
there is no evidence so far that e-cigarettes are acting as a route into smoking for children or non-smokers

I do appreciate this is from 2015, but it proves a point I'm making

[ThomasC]

E-cigarettes are a relatively new product – they aren’t risk free and we don’t yet know their long-term impact. We strongly discourage people who haven’t smoked from using them.

However, there are misconceptions among a large proportion of the public that e-cigarettes are equally or more harmful than smoking[1] Research to date actually indicates that they are less harmful as they don’t contain tobacco or involve combustion.

Here you will find a summary of the current available information on the relative safety of e-cigarettes compared to tobacco.

[bots]

What DOES need tackling is the vape issue with kids and young teens. Yes some kids started smoking young but the vape issue is on another level - my daughter has only just started high school and so many kids (12 and 13 year olds) are doing it. FAR more than were smoking at that age when I was young, half my daughters year group seem to be doing it, and we have no idea what the long term consequences are. There are cheap, colourful disposable fruity ones that seem to be practically aimed at kids :think:.

Ministers are not expected to green-light Mr Khan's recommendations straight away.

They will consider them as part of a wider package of measures they are looking to introduce this year to improve the health of the nation and tackle inequalities.

Mr Khan is also expected to recommend:

a levy on the tobacco companies' profits
greater promotion of vaping as an alternative to smoking
extra investment in NHS stop-smoking services
It will be up to the devolved nations to decide whether they follow suit.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-61718468

---------------------------------------------

vaping is considered much safer than smoking by health professionals and government so I think you are on a lost cause there

[ThomasC]

Ministers are not expected to green-light Mr Khan's recommendations straight away.

They will consider them as part of a wider package of measures they are looking to introduce this year to improve the health of the nation and tackle inequalities.

Mr Khan is also expected to recommend:

a levy on the tobacco companies' profits
greater promotion of vaping as an alternative to smoking
extra investment in NHS stop-smoking services
It will be up to the devolved nations to decide whether they follow suit.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-61718468

---------------------------------------------

vaping is considered much safer than smoking by health professionals and government so I think you are on a lost cause there

What a breath of fresh air.

I concur

[Niamh.]

I'm like that with food, can't be in the house or I'll eat it, bad food that is. I'm focused at the minute so doing well



I think raising the smoking age will not do much.

Even those under 18 find ways to smoke, fake ID, others buying them.

It's also at the detriment, not the increase in age, but other changes that impacts on adults.

Education and ID checks, parental guidance can help to a degree. Peer pressure will always be a thing.

Same with sugar tax and drink.

Tricky one really. It may reduce, but not eradicate the problem of under age smokers.....

Yes I agree really, I don't think raising the age will have any effect at all. Underage smoking as it is, is at an all time low (I'm guessing here but I think I'm probably right?)

[Niamh.]

Well done niamh
Smokers are easy targets, the air that none smokers breath is full harmful toxins that are produced by people making millions who will continue to do so unregulated

Thank you

[user104658]

What's the lessee of the two evils;?

Just to throw some research out there;

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/e-cigarettes-around-95-less-harmful-than-tobacco-estimates-landmark-review

https://www.cancerresearchuk.org/health-professional/awareness-and-prevention/e-cigarette-hub-information-for-health-professionals/safety

Although I can't argue that we don't know enough about them although I think it's fair to say they are LESS harmful than traditional cigarettes.

Nicotine is the addiction substance. Just because you vape it doesn't have to contain nicotine. The most harmful of chemicals is tar which you don't get with e cigarettes. Just compare the chemicals in the two, 4 or 4000.

Education plays a big role because there are certain chemicals found in eliquids such as diacytal which can cause lung damage. This is banned in the UK in e liquids, but it's good to have an awareness as there are unregulated liquids.

Vapes have always been quite colourful and more are brought to market as it's supply and demand. For a lot of people it's a hobby from buying mods, making liquids, making coils....and the vast around of liquids and adaptations you can buy.

There's even talk about them being a a smoking cessation aid

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/e-cigarettes-could-be-prescribed-on-the-nhs-in-world-first

A lot like to jump on the bandwagon with this subject, all high and mighty not having the first clue about e cigarettes. Not saying you but just generally.

It's not a straight comparison though because I'm not saying that vaping is as bad as smoking per-individual, the evidence we have thus far is that it's much safer (but worth bearing in mind that there is no data over the long term, and there won't be for several decades, because vaping is still relatively new).

If you were to say "what's worse, five 12 year olds in the year group smoking or five 12 year olds in the year group vaping?" I'd agree with you that it's better for them to be vaping every time. I also highly doubt it's a "gateway to smoking" - I imagine they'll just continue vaping. If it was a FEW more vaping then I'd even still consider that balance. But that's not what I'm observing. I'd say when I was at at the beginning of high school (age 12) there were a tiny handful of kids in the year group (of about 150 kids) smoking. My daughter is 12 now and it's more like 1/3 of her entire year group that's vaping regularly so 50+ kids.

This is imperfect science; different schools on different sides of the country and 20 years apart... perhaps her school is demographically different to how mine was... but I don't think that accounts for the massive difference in numbers. It's becoming increasingly normalised for young teens (children) to vape. There's no data at all on the health effects in children.

As above - I don't really care at all what adults do, so long as it isn't affecting the health of others and they have the facts. I'm not saying "ban them for the sake of the children!" - I'm just saying more needs to be done to tackle the increasing problem of school-age kids using them. Heavier fines/punishments for any adult found to be selling or supplying to kids, for example.

[ThomasC]

It's not a straight comparison though because I'm not saying that vaping is as bad as smoking per-individual, the evidence we have thus far is that it's much safer (but worth bearing in mind that there is no data over the long term, and there won't be for several decades, because vaping is still relatively new).

If you were to say "what's worse, five 12 year olds in the year group smoking or five 12 year olds in the year group vaping?" I'd agree with you that it's better for them to be vaping every time. I also highly doubt it's a "gateway to smoking" - I imagine they'll just continue vaping. If it was a FEW more vaping then I'd even still consider that balance. But that's not what I'm observing. I'd say when I was at at the beginning of high school (age 12) there were a tiny handful of kids in the year group (of about 150 kids) smoking. My daughter is 12 now and it's more like 1/3 of her entire year group that's vaping regularly so 50+ kids.

This is imperfect science; different schools on different sides of the country and 20 years apart... perhaps her school is demographically different to how mine was... but I don't think that accounts for the massive difference in numbers. It's becoming increasingly normalised for young teens (children) to vape. There's no data at all on the health effects in children.

As above - I don't really care at all what adults do, so long as it isn't affecting the health of others and they have the facts. I'm not saying "ban them for the sake of the children!" - I'm just saying more needs to be done to tackle the increasing problem of school-age kids using them. Heavier fines/punishments for any adult found to be selling or supplying to kids, for example.

Can't disagree with any of that.

I think if children weren't vaping they do something else
.. trend setting, peer pressure. I know I started smoking at school to fit in as it was a social aspect and smokers would meet in a certain area.

It's not ideal, but there's worse things children could be doing, not necessarily saying it's right, but when trying to maybe strike a balance as a parent.... If my child was vaping, I would rather that than them be prostituting, taking drugs, drinking in massive excess, anti social behaviour, exclusion, theft, assault to just name a few.

Yes, more could be done, but a big problem is that children will get hold of them regardless. A colleague of mine found about 12 vape pens in her son's draw.

[Redway]

To be fair I largely agree that adults can do what they want with their lungs so long as they're fully informed of the risks, and it doesn't affect others. I smoked (socially, not habitually) through my late teens and Uni, so I'd say about 15 (estimated based on buying a pack of 20 and usually giving a few away) a week for 7 years, which I guess is a fair number of cigarettes. I also wouldn't say I regret it. I enjoyed that period of my life for what it was and got it out of my system :joker:.

No. 15 a week is hardly anything at all. I wouldn’t beat yourself up for being a normal young person either way.

[Redway]

Tbh I think America has the right idea when it comes to allowed ages for things - 21 for smoking and alcohol, 18 for sex.



I once saw (what I assume was) a joke article that said kids were taking up cigarettes to get them off vapes :joker:

Do you seriously think it’s good practice to arrest 20-year-old students for wanting a night out where they’re allowed to act like at least semi-adults and not be capped at Capri Sun?

[user104658]

When it comes to sex, I'm in favour of a staggered system, which would roughly be, not legal at all under 14 (decriminalised if BOTH are under 14 or close in age, but not legal) then 2 year age gap maximum under 18. So you can have sex at 16, but not with someone over 18.

At 18 then up to the individual (although in my personal opinion, over-25's hooking up with under-20's is questionable, but I don't think it should be illegal).

Basically, I think there should be a system that allows for teenagers hooking up (because frankly, it's just going to happen) BUT that doesn't allow for adults exploiting under-18's... whilst also avoiding daft situations like a 17 year old facing legal trouble for being with a 15 year old.

There'd also need to be some common sense at the top end but full adults (over 21) being with 16 and 17 year olds should just be a flat "no" and considered statutory rape. The system as it is now is wide open to exploitation with 30+ year old men (and older) shacking up with 16 year old girls (and boys for that matter, gay teens being exploited by older men is also a huge problem). It's gross.

[ThomasC]

When it comes to sex, I'm in favour of a staggered system, which would roughly be, not legal at all under 14 (decriminalised if BOTH are under 14 or close in age, but not legal) then 2 year age gap maximum under 18. So you can have sex at 16, but not with someone over 18.

At 18 then up to the individual (although in my personal opinion, over-25's hooking up with under-20's is questionable, but I don't think it should be illegal).

Basically, I think there should be a system that allows for teenagers hooking up (because frankly, it's just going to happen) BUT that doesn't allow for adults exploiting under-18's... whilst also avoiding daft situations like a 17 year old facing legal trouble for being with a 15 year old.

There'd also need to be some common sense at the top end but full adults (over 21) being with 16 and 17 year olds should just be a flat "no" and considered statutory rape. The system as it is now is wide open to exploitation with 30+ year old men (and older) shacking up with 16 year old girls (and boys for that matter, gay teens being exploited by older men is also a huge problem). It's gross.

We have such a young age at which young people can be criminalised when you look at other countries. Age of criminality is 10 here.

I wouldn't raise the age lower, there have been talks about raising it higher if anything.

A system in which allows for teenagers to hook up, but doesn't allow for CSE? Well, that's just wishful thinking and if you lower the age of legal sex it would cause even more problems.

Adults over 21 being with 16/17 year olds, well you say should be a flat out 'no' and considered rape. Of course this is your opinion because if they're both consenting then it's completely legal.

You say the system is well open to exploitation as it is at the minute...I'd ask why you would consider lowering the age of sex then? Not that I really feel it would make much of a difference.

I think what can make the difference, if anything, is education, resilience, boundaries, parenting, safe sex, sexual education, open and honest dialogue, good mental health, ...... vulnerability from low self, esteem, mental health issues, trauma is an opening for CSE.

[user104658]

We have such a young age at which young people can be criminalised when you look at other countries. Age of criminality is 10 here.

I wouldn't raise the age lower, there have been talks about raising it higher if anything.

A system in which allows for teenagers to hook up, but doesn't allow for CSE? Well, that's just wishful thinking and if you lower the age of legal sex it would cause even more problems.

Adults over 21 being with 16/17 year olds, well you say should be a flat out 'no' and considered rape. Of course this is your opinion because if they're both consenting then it's completely legal.

You say the system is well open to exploitation as it is at the minute...I'd ask why you would consider lowering the age of sex then? Not that I really feel it would make much of a difference.

I think what can make the difference, if anything, is education, resilience, boundaries, parenting, safe sex, sexual education, open and honest dialogue, good mental health, ...... vulnerability from low self, esteem, mental health issues, trauma is an opening for CSE.

In short, because younger teenagers are always going to experiment and there's nothing really wrong or unusual about that so long as it's with other teenagers and not with adults. In practice the system already more or less functions this way, it would be VERY unusual for anything to come of two underage people "breaking that law" and for the mostpart even, say, a 17 year old is highly unlikely to have criminal charges pursued against them for sexual activity with someone three months off their 16th birthday - even though it is technically statutory rape. Whereas, an 18+ year old is (quite rightly) likely to be facing some serious questions for sleeping with someone under 16.

As for 16/17 year olds with over 21's, I know it IS legal currently and I'm not saying we should just consider it statutory rape regardless of the law, I'm saying "if I was to write the law" there would be some mechanism that makes some activity under 18 legal with similarly-aged people, but the FULL age of adult consent 18 (rather than 16). SOME 16 year olds are more mature than others but the reality is, many 16 year olds are still very "young" and I have serious misgivings about any adult who would sleep with a 16 year old. Again I know it's not illegal, I'm just saying... if a full adult would sleep with a 16 year old, I'd be keeping a strong eye on them around any adolescent aged 13+.

I largely agree that the risk factors for grooming are individual circumstances rather than laws though; emotionally healthy 16 year old girls are not sleeping with 40 year old men and can only really have been successfully groomed to that extent if no one was paying attention. IMO.

However, I'd not be adverse to a law-change that would mean "groomers" (at the very least, adults over 30) could be charged for pursuing anyone under 18. Dodgy AF.

[bots]

how did we get on to age appropriate relations and groomers in a smoking thread :fist:

[user104658]

how did we get on to age appropriate relations and groomers in a smoking thread :fist:

Well you could argue that it's a thread about "legal ages"/age of understanding and consent more than specifically about smoking I guess... it's really all the same discussion - at what age do we accept that people become fully aware of and responsible for their bodies and health. And should that age be different for different things (and why).

To be fair I think it's a hard sell to say that 18 year olds can have a mortgage, join the army, drive, consume alcohol etc. but are too young to smoke until they're 21 :think:. Unless maybe there's some sort of research showing that there are additional health concerns under that age.