UK :16 kids die of Strep A. bacterial infection

[arista]

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2022/12/02/12/65171823-0-image-m-23_1669984543943.jpg


[A fourth primary school pupil in the UK
has died of Strep A bacterial infection
Muhammad Ibrahim Ali, four, died after
suffering cardiac arrest in November
The news comes after two primary school
pupils died in the last three weeks*
Friends and family today paid tribute
to Hanna Roap, 7, a pupil from Wales]

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2022/12/02/12/65171899-11494315-image-a-68_1669984663608.jpg

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11494315/Strep-primary-school-pupil-dies-viral-infection-outbreak-Britains-schools.html

Sad news for the parents.

[user104658]

Both of my kids have had Scarlet Fever - my eldest in 2018 and my youngest in 2019. Thankfully caught both early with antibiotics and no complications - however my eldest was the "illest" I've seen either of them so far when she had it. Lost a load of weight and very pale (chalk white as opposed to any variety of scarlet!)/big dark circles under her eyes for weeks. Not a pleasant thing to experience as a parent.

[arista]

Both of my kids have had Scarlet Fever - my eldest in 2018 and my youngest in 2019. Thankfully caught both early with antibiotics and no complications - however my eldest was the "illest" I've seen either of them so far when she had it. Lost a load of weight and very pale (chalk white as opposed to any variety of scarlet!)/big dark circles under her eyes for weeks. Not a pleasant thing to experience as a parent.

Thats good.

[arista]

BBC London News says 6 kids have sadly Died.

[Zizu]

BBC London News says 6 kids have sadly Died.


So expert saying to keep an eye on poorly kids .. it presents as flu-like but if a red rash appears on the chest / arms get them medical assistance immediately.. early antibiotics are crucial


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[rusticgal]

Both of my kids have had Scarlet Fever - my eldest in 2018 and my youngest in 2019. Thankfully caught both early with antibiotics and no complications - however my eldest was the "illest" I've seen either of them so far when she had it. Lost a load of weight and very pale (chalk white as opposed to any variety of scarlet!)/big dark circles under her eyes for weeks. Not a pleasant thing to experience as a parent.


Scarlet fever is certainly going around everywhere…

[Cherie]

So expert saying to keep an eye on poorly kids .. it presents as flu-like but if a red rash appears on the chest / arms get them medical assistance immediately.. early antibiotics are crucial


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Or a strawberry tongue

[arista]

https://liveblog.digitalimages.sky/lc-images-sky/lcimg-c560bd18-94b1-4aa8-96b6-c33d30969861.jpeg

[user104658]

Or a strawberry tongue

Yep that was the main symptom for my eldest that prompted the doctor visit - REALLY strange looking - she didn't even feel ill at that point which is why it was caught so early, but she got very ill for about 7 or 8 days.

Youngest it was big bright red cheeks. She was fine with it though unlike eldest, not very ill, the main challenge was getting antibiotics into her. Went through about 5 jars of nutella.

[arista]

https://liveblog.digitalimages.sky/lc-images-sky/lcimg-9d9673f7-c60d-4cea-9128-2f5e39022f90.jpeg

[arista]

https://liveblog.digitalimages.sky/lc-images-sky/lcimg-ac0c251c-1767-4ad5-a222-9d1e61cbc0ba.jpeg

[Mystic Mock]

Hopefully it'll be under control soon.

A shame for the parents that lost their kids though.

[arista]

This is an immunity problem,
due to kids not mixing during Covid-19.


And worse some younger doctors are not
aware of the signs of this killer

[user104658]

This is an immunity problem,
due to kids not mixing during Covid-19.


And worse some younger doctors are not
aware of the signs of this killer

Well it's a combo of the two really. Strep is a common infection, it's just rare (these days) for it to be serious because of early exposure and immunity. Kids lived in a bubble through covid and some of that natural immunity has been compromised for some.

Doctors know what a strep infection looks like, it's just that they don't expect it to progress to something more serious and it can progress quickly.

It may just be coming back a bit non-covid related though - my eldest having scarlet fever it was pre-covid and the GP was quite surprised by it back then - quite an experienced doctor and he commented that it was only his second time diagnosing scarlet fever.

It's quite a hefty (long) dose of antibiotics but knocks it out quite quickly, there were only a few more days of symptoms from starting the antibiotics but the full course was I think 10 days. The risk is not getting started on antibiotics quickly enough and sepsis setting in. Hopefully the awareness campaign will make parents, doctors, teachers etc. more vigilant about prescribing quickly and stop there from being more deaths.

[arista]

BBC text
[Penicillin or alternative antibiotics
could be given to all children in
primary schools where there has been
a case of Strep A, the i reports.
The paper says entire groups can be treated,
as a preventative measure, even if the children
are not showing any symptoms.]

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/10549/production/_127898866_inewspaper-nc.png.webp

[arista]

https://liveblog.digitalimages.sky/lc-images-sky/lcimg-f95bd798-159d-4b47-a0b4-1e82dab7b224.jpeg

[arista]

https://liveblog.digitalimages.sky/lc-images-sky/lcimg-22430939-cd53-4cd5-9ed2-c401c1d15db7.jpeg

[arista]

The total of 15 kids
now have sadly, died.

https://news.sky.com/story/strep-a-deaths-in-children-rise-to-15-across-uk-12764165

[Strictly Jake]

Genuinely getting a bit stressed by this. My son has just recovered from hand foot and mouth disease too. There's a lot of weird stuff going around. Think it's because this is sort of how COVID started with its initial spread numbers started low then went to high numbers quickly. Prob don't need to be worried but I am

[Cherie]

Genuinely getting a bit stressed by this. My son has just recovered from hand foot and mouth disease too. There's a lot of weird stuff going around. Think it's because this is sort of how COVID started with its initial spread numbers started low then went to high numbers quickly. Prob don't need to be worried but I am

Just familiarise yourself with the symptoms Jake and try not to worry

https://www.publichealth.hscni.net/news/public-urged-be-alert-signs-group-strep

[arista]

Great Link to post
Cherie.

[user104658]

For me the concerning thing is not the strep itself - if you know what you're looking for and get the antibiotics in good time, there's no real issue.

The concerning thing is the reported shortage of antibiotics and people - for want of a better term - "panic buying" (or "panic prescribing") them. There is apparently a looming antibiotics shortage... and that is when it starts to be worrying. These infections can be fought effectively with antibiotics, but you do NEED the antibiotics, there's a reason that "Scarlet Fever" was a very scary thing to hear before penicillin.

[hijaxers]

For me the concerning thing is not the strep itself - if you know what you're looking for and get the antibiotics in good time, there's no real issue.

The concerning thing is the reported shortage of antibiotics and people - for want of a better term - "panic buying" (or "panic prescribing") them. There is apparently a looming antibiotics shortage... and that is when it starts to be worrying. These infections can be fought effectively with antibiotics, but you do NEED the antibiotics, there's a reason that "Scarlet Fever" was a very scary thing to hear before penicillin.

I had Scarlet fever when i was in junior school ~ i was off school for 3 wks and it was horrible.

I heard this morning that there is a shortage of the liquid type suitable for smaller children, which is concerning, i think most are aware of thee symptoms now andd keeping an eye out.

Very sad Christmas for all the parents who have lost a child.

[arista]

For me the concerning thing is not the strep itself - if you know what you're looking for and get the antibiotics in good time, there's no real issue.

The concerning thing is the reported shortage of antibiotics and people - for want of a better term - "panic buying" (or "panic prescribing") them. There is apparently a looming antibiotics shortage... and that is when it starts to be worrying. These infections can be fought effectively with antibiotics, but you do NEED the antibiotics, there's a reason that "Scarlet Fever" was a very scary thing to hear before penicillin.


Not of the Tablet form
but the Liquid Form is now in short supply,
of course the liquid form is easier to use with
young children.

Ref: GMBHD itv Live report.

[user104658]

Not of the Tablet form
but the Liquid Form is now in short supply,
of course the liquid form is easier to use with
young children.

Ref: GMBHD itv Live report.

From experience, the easiest antibiotic to get into a kid is capsule form, broken open and stirred into a little bowl of nutella, golden syrup and icing sugar. Turns into a sort of nutella fudge. Job done.

[Strictly Jake]

It's at my sons nursery!! Yep gonna keep him off til after Xmas I think

[Niamh.]

It's at my sons nursery!! Yep gonna keep him off til after Xmas I think

oh my god, definitely keep him home Jake

[arista]

It's at my sons nursery!! Yep gonna keep him off til after Xmas I think

I assume they informed you.

[joeysteele]

Hopefully it'll be under control soon.

A shame for the parents that lost their kids though.

Tragic as to the losses of life.

Let's hope it is over soon.

[arista]

Sadly another young child has died of Strep A
in Sussex, this time.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-63922734

[Zizu]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20221209/ea8f11737981fc0976115119f5812cc7.jpg


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[Oliver_W]

Just pointing out that not just those who have (or are) kids beed to worry - the total death toll is apparently about 60, across all ages :(

[user104658]

I do think it's worth pointing out that strep infections are extremely common and always have been extremely common... it's not like Covid or pox etc. that "has an outbreak"... for example, the majority of tonsilitis is caused by Strep A bacteria (and a tonne of other generic sore throats).

Strep A is not the unusual part of the equation here - it's the fact that more children's immune systems don't seem to be able to tackle normal, common strep A infections and they're developing sepsis (it's the sepsis that causes deaths).

The graph I think does illustrate quite clearly that Covid lockdowns are part of the equation here... massive drop off in 2020/2021 and then a corresponding leap upwards in 2022.

This is a complex scenario really where it's hard to know what to do. People are now (understandably) "germ-terrified" after Covid and the compulsion (again an understandable one) is to wrap up our kids and keep them safe from those bugs. But there's clear evidence that that germ-avoidance has lead to decreased immune system development that puts kids, especially, at far more risk when they do catch something.

In short - the more we keep very young children away from mild infections that develop their fledgling immune systems, the more risk they're at in mid to late childhood.

But of course after the last few years, no parent of young children wants to hear "your children literally have to get sick sometimes for their own safety".

[user104658]

Just pointing out that not just those who have (or are) kids beed to worry - the total death toll is apparently about 60, across all ages :(

As usual the risk categories are the very young, the very old and the immune-compromised - bacterial infections like strep can be particularly nasty for the immune compromised because the bacteria multiplies exponentially.

Again I think worth reiterating that the issue at play here is not the strep itself... it's not a "new" or "worse" strep - it's the same strep that every single one of us will have had numerous times. Any time you've had a sore throat, it might have been strep.

The issue is 1) lack of previous exposure is making kids more susceptible to invasive strep (blood infection/sepsis) and 2) there's something like 3x or 4x higher case numbers (for the same reason) which will of course increase death stats.

Some more things to keep in mind;

1) Yes the fatality rate from invasive strep (sepsis) is quite high at around 9%

BUT

2) The chances of a strep A infection (even scarlet fever) developing into invasive strep is still very low if treated properly.

and 3) (I think this is the big one) the risk can be almost entirely eliminated if antibiotics are introduced quickly after onset. That's the one that's different from something like Covid - it's not a matter of just saying "oh no" and waiting it out - being vigilant and starting treatment ASAP (i.e. before sepsis) is very important.

[MTVN]

Just pointing out that not just those who have (or are) kids beed to worry - the total death toll is apparently about 60, across all ages :(

What

So the majority of deaths are not in children yet they're the only ones being reported

[Zizu]

What

So the majority of deaths are not in children yet they're the only ones being reported


Typical British media scaremongering


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[MTVN]

As usual the risk categories are the very young, the very old and the immune-compromised - bacterial infections like strep can be particularly nasty for the immune compromised because the bacteria multiplies exponentially.

Again I think worth reiterating that the issue at play here is not the strep itself... it's not a "new" or "worse" strep - it's the same strep that every single one of us will have had numerous times. Any time you've had a sore throat, it might have been strep.

The issue is 1) lack of previous exposure is making kids more susceptible to invasive strep (blood infection/sepsis) and 2) there's something like 3x or 4x higher case numbers (for the same reason) which will of course increase death stats.

Some more things to keep in mind;

1) Yes the fatality rate from invasive strep (sepsis) is quite high at around 9%

BUT

2) The chances of a strep A infection (even scarlet fever) developing into invasive strep is still very low if treated properly.

and 3) (I think this is the big one) the risk can be almost entirely eliminated if antibiotics are introduced quickly after onset. That's the one that's different from something like Covid - it's not a matter of just saying "oh no" and waiting it out - being vigilant and starting treatment ASAP (i.e. before sepsis) is very important.

But I imagine it's quite hard to know if something is just a nasty sore throat that will get better or something that urgently needs antibiotics, especially when access to healthcare is so poor right now

[user104658]

What

So the majority of deaths are not in children yet they're the only ones being reported

Not to be brutally blunt but ... elderly people being finished off by strep is a regular occurrence and always has been, it's not really news.

But I imagine it's quite hard to know if something is just a nasty sore throat that will get better or something that urgently needs antibiotics, especially when access to healthcare is so poor right now

True that's why awareness is the big one here, and yes you're right the parts of this that I find really worrying are the issues with GP access in recent years, and the possibility of shortages of antibiotics. If parents know what they're looking for, can quickly get a face-to-face, and the antibiotics are ready and waiting at the pharmacy straight away then I don't think children are at huge risk. If they can't see a doctor, or can't get access to antibiotics quickly, then that can change alarmingly fast.

Ultimately the systematic destruction of healthcare/the NHS is going to be the major factor here. Again.

Postcode lottery will also come into play; e.g. I live somewhere that I'm confident that I could call my GP and have a phone appointment within an hour, face-to-face within a few hours, and a prescription in my hands today. The situation in large population centres (where some GP's have thousands upon thousands of people on their books per GP) isn't great. Days or longer to get a face to face appointment... if you can get though on the phone at all. :umm2: