Mother sues her 4 year old son's school for making him take part in LGBT parade'

[Crimson Dynamo]

Engaged Mother sues her four-year-old son's school in first case of its kind in UK
for 'making him take part in LGBT parade'

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2023/02/01/18/67216321-0-image-a-2_1675274684148.jpg

Izzy Montagu, 38, said she was told by the headteacher of Heavers Farm
Primary School in South Norwood, southeast London, that her son could not
opt out of the event in June 2018.

The school sent a letter to parents on 19 June inviting them to partake in a
Pride march and 'celebrate the differences that make them and their family
special.' :umm2:

A week later Mrs Montague contacted the school 'and asked for her son to be
excused attendance on 29 June as they were concerned of him being
involved of a public display of adherence to views which she did not accept.'


Mrs Montague's request was refused by the headteacher Ms Susan Papas so
the parent replied with a lengthy email on 13 July, Central London County
Court heard.

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2023/02/01/18/67216323-0-image-a-3_1675274690765.jpg

Mrs Montague, supported by the Christian Legal Centre, is suing the school
on the grounds of direct and indirect discrimination, victimisation and breach
of statutory duty under the Education Act 1996 and the Human Rights Act
1998.

It is the first time that a UK court will scrutinize the legality of imposing LGBT
ideology on primary schools.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11702239/Christian-mother-sues-four-year-old-sons-school-saying-LGBT-parade.html

top comment: Good luck to her, I hope she wins

[hijaxers]

Engaged Mother sues her four-year-old son's school in first case of its kind in UK
for 'making him take part in LGBT parade'

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2023/02/01/18/67216321-0-image-a-2_1675274684148.jpg

Izzy Montagu, 38, said she was told by the headteacher of Heavers Farm
Primary School in South Norwood, southeast London, that her son could not
opt out of the event in June 2018.

The school sent a letter to parents on 19 June inviting them to partake in a
Pride march and 'celebrate the differences that make them and their family
special.' :umm2:

A week later Mrs Montague contacted the school 'and asked for her son to be
excused attendance on 29 June as they were concerned of him being
involved of a public display of adherence to views which she did not accept.'


Mrs Montague's request was refused by the headteacher Ms Susan Papas so
the parent replied with a lengthy email on 13 July, Central London County
Court heard.

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2023/02/01/18/67216323-0-image-a-3_1675274690765.jpg

Mrs Montague, supported by the Christian Legal Centre, is suing the school
on the grounds of direct and indirect discrimination, victimisation and breach
of statutory duty under the Education Act 1996 and the Human Rights Act
1998.

It is the first time that a UK court will scrutinize the legality of imposing LGBT
ideology on primary schools.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11702239/Christian-mother-sues-four-year-old-sons-school-saying-LGBT-parade.html

top comment: Good luck to her, I hope she wins

So do i , making children take part compulsorily is not on and how dare the headmistress become a dictator and force her child. Good on you Izzy i really hope you win.

As i have said before my daughter is happily married to her wife so don't start jumping on me.

[Jordan.]

So do i , making children take part compulsorily is not on and how dare the headmistress become a dictator and force her child. Good on you Izzy i really hope you win.

As i have said before my daughter is happily married to her wife so don't start jumping on me.

Even more sad you support someone who opposes your daughters happiness.

[GoldHeart]

Do they really think bullying and forcing parents to make their kids take part in LGBT parades ... will be a good way to show acceptance??????!!!. What planet are these schools and teachers on . Shoving ideology will just make people push back further. Some families are more religious or conservative, or maybe they just don't want their kids taking part as it's not part of the curriculum . I hope she wins aswell .

This should NOT be compulsory to take part in , you're supposed to have rights to refuse it . We really have gone backwards ... and as i keep saying this is NOT progressive in anyway, and just does more damage .

[Crimson Dynamo]

Even more sad you support someone who opposes your daughters happiness.

:facepalm:

[rusticgal]

I think these things should be structured into secondary school education when children can make their own decisions as to whether they want to take part.

[GoldHeart]

Even more sad you support someone who opposes your daughters happiness.

Your comment is so short sighted ... i cannot even :bored: . What's worse is , you probably think it would be ok if parents remove their kids from R.E subject as they see it as "Religion being forced on them " or something. Surely people should have a right to not take part in something, and it's even more ridiculous with LGBT than R.E.... as at least R.E is an ACTUAL SCHOOL LESSON :shrug: .

[Liam-]

For as long as I went to school and all the kids in the family went through school, nativity plays were compulsory, if the doors are being opened to sue schools for things that parents don’t agree with it’s only going to be a slippery slope with how everything is being politicised these days, climate change? Science deniers. Cooking classes with meat? Vegans.

The Christian legal centre has been getting themselves involved in a lot of stuff lately to try and push their own agendas on the country, worrying

[Zizu]

I think these things should be structured into secondary school education when children can make their own decisions as to whether they want to take part.


Agreed


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Jordan.]

Your comment is so short sighted ... i cannot even :bored: . What's worse is , you probably think it would be ok if parents remove their kids from R.E subject as they see it as "Religion being forced on them " or something. Surely people should have a right to not take part in something, and it's even more ridiculous with LGBT than R.E.... as at least R.E is an ACTUAL SCHOOL LESSON :shrug: .

That was all your own words, don't try and think for me.

[Glenn.]

What is it she doesn’t agree with?

[Liam-]

Faguettes

[arista]

What is it she doesn’t agree with?

African Church
Bans all Gays and any
Teachings of anything to do with Gays

[Glenn.]

Imagine having a mother like that. Poor child.

[Glenn.]

Oh she’s the one that was on GMB and said being gay was a choice. I’m afraid someone that holds dangerous and stupid views like that does not deserve the time of day.

[GoldHeart]

Oh she’s the one that was on GMB and said being gay was a choice. I’m afraid someone that holds dangerous and stupid views like that does not deserve the time of day.

And you think somehow forcing LGBT ideology on her kid will help matters??? . You're never going to agree with everyone, there's plenty of stuff we all disagree on in life . But you can't go around dictating people.... whilst trying to indoctrinate aswell .

[GoldHeart]

And why does a child as young as 4 need to be 'taught' these things ? .

[Jordan.]

And you think somehow forcing LGBT ideology on her kid will help matters??? . You're never going to agree with everyone, there's plenty of stuff we all disagree on in life . But you can't go around dictating people.... whilst trying to indoctrinate aswell .

What's LGBT ideology?

[Glenn.]

And you think somehow forcing LGBT ideology on her kid will help matters??? . You're never going to agree with everyone, there's plenty of stuff we all disagree on in life . But you can't go around dictating people.... whilst trying to indoctrinate aswell .

Oh do be quiet. The woman is an ignorant homophobe. A born again Christian. Wouldn’t be so bad if she was actually religious. She’s made a choice to be religious.

Forcing LGBT ideologies? Are you for real? It isn’t something you can push onto anyone :joker:
I think anything that brings children up to be accepting of all life’s different types of people and unique families is what’s the main goal. Anyone that isn’t stupid can see that.

Like I said, the woman is an ignorant homophobe using religion to back up her appalling views.

[Jordan.]

Oh do be quiet. The woman is an ignorant homophobe. A born again Christian. Wouldn’t be so bad if she was actually religious. She’s made a choice to be religious.

Forcing LGBT ideologies? Are you for real? It isn’t something you can push onto anyone :joker:
I think anything that brings children up to be accepting of all life’s different types of people and unique families is what’s the main goal. Anyone that isn’t stupid can see that.

Like I said, the woman is an ignorant homophobe using religion to back up her appalling views.

You never see these people protesting that children be sheltered from heterosexual relationships, you have to wonder what makes them think learning of homosexuality is any different.

[Mystic Mock]

And why does a child as young as 4 need to be 'taught' these things ? .

The argument that they'll make is that if you expose the child to interacting with LGBT people, then it increases the likelihood of the child being more accepting of gay people or Bisexuals when they're older, and again will likely interact with the LGBTQ community at some point in their life.

I can definitely see where the School is coming from tbf, it's kinda similar to when I was at School in Birmingham and they would have us all from all sorts of different backgrounds so that we'd be more accepting of each other, admittedly because we were all kids back then we all said things that we should never have said (myself included) but I honestly feel that the exposure to different races, Religions and other factors did help me be more accepting of other types of people as I've got older, and I will presume the same for others in my class at the time as well that they grew from the experience of a more multi-cultural School.

I'm thinking that kind of logic is what Schools are going with when they're having kids interact with Drag Queens and attending an LGBTQ parade, it's to try and stop children from either being scared of this particular group, and it's probably also to stop them from repressing their sexuality if they turn out to be Gay when they're older.

[Zizu]

And why does a child as young as 4 need to be 'taught' these things ? .


That’s my stance as well


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Zizu]

The argument that they'll make is that if you expose the child to interacting with LGBT people, then it increases the likelihood of the child being more accepting of gay people or Bisexuals when they're older, and again will likely interact with the LGBTQ community at some point in their life.

I can definitely see where the School is coming from tbf, it's kinda similar to when I was at School in Birmingham and they would have us all from all sorts of different backgrounds so that we'd be more accepting of each other, admittedly because we were all kids back then we all said things that we should never have said (myself included) but I honestly feel that the exposure to different races, Religions and other factors did help me be more accepting of other types of people as I've got older, and I will presume the same for others in my class at the time as well that they grew from the experience of a more multi-cultural School.

I'm thinking that kind of logic is what Schools are going with when they're having kids interact with Drag Queens and attending an LGBTQ parade, it's to try and stop children from either being scared of this particular group, and it's probably also to stop them from repressing their sexuality if they turn out to be Gay when they're older.


I still feel that this kind of thing could wait until the high school phase


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[bots]

hang on a minute. 4 years old means that the child is at nursery school, probably privately run, outside of the education system. So this story is just alarmist nonsense. A nursery school can't demand anything of a parent

[AnnieK]

At my son's primary school, most activities like this were non compulsary....same with religious celebrations. He had a Jehovah's witness in his class who was excused from all Christmas and Easter related activities. I've not read the article but does it give reasons why the child was not guven permission to be excused from this. Pkus at 4, surely you'd just keep them at home rather than go through the the arse ache of suing?

I'm sure the Pride event was just a fun day....it won't have been highly sexualised either

Sounds like a fuss about nothing to me

[MTVN]

June 2018? This was nearly 5 years ago

Wonder why she's still going on about it

[Cherie]

For as long as I went to school and all the kids in the family went through school, nativity plays were compulsory, if the doors are being opened to sue schools for things that parents don’t agree with it’s only going to be a slippery slope with how everything is being politicised these days, climate change? Science deniers. Cooking classes with meat? Vegans.

The Christian legal centre has been getting themselves involved in a lot of stuff lately to try and push their own agendas on the country, worrying

Only if you sent your kids to a Christian school :shrug: they wouldn’t be compulsory in a Sikh school for example

[Oliver_W]

You never see these people protesting that children be sheltered from heterosexual relationships, you have to wonder what makes them think learning of homosexuality is any different.
Nearly every living person is a result of a heterosexual relationship. Most people are straight, or at least on the straighter end of the Kinsey scale.

And why does a child as young as 4 need to be 'taught' these things ? .
Teaching acceptance is fine. For younger children, the best venues for this would be stuff like reading stories where a character has two dads or two mums. Or maybe using gay celebrities as an example. But drag and Pride parades are unnecessary for this, as the message gets buried in the spectacle and it carries the risk of exposing them to (actual) inappropriate material.

[Cherie]

Nearly every living person is a result of a heterosexual relationship. Most people are straight, or at least on the straighter end of the Kinsey scale.


Teaching acceptance is fine. For younger children, the best venues for this would be stuff like reading stories where a character has two dads or two mums. Or maybe using gay celebrities as an example. But drag and Pride parades are unnecessary for this, as the message gets buried in the spectacle and it carries the risk of exposing them to (actual) inappropriate material.

Agree, there is no need for 4 years olds to be involved in a make believe Pride March, they are not proud of their sexuality, they dont have a sexuality at that age they are just kids

[arista]

[/B]

Agree, there is no need for 4 years olds to be involved in a make believe Pride March, they are not proud of their sexuality, they dont have a sexuality at that age they are just kids

Too young
it is all wrong

[Zizu]

[/B]

Agree, there is no need for 4 years olds to be involved in a make believe Pride March, they are not proud of their sexuality, they dont have a sexuality at that age they are just kids


Exactly !


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Livia]

Who is teaching our children, and what are they teaching them?

[GoldHeart]

You never see these people protesting that children be sheltered from heterosexual relationships, you have to wonder what makes them think learning of homosexuality is any different.

Well what do you mean by "heterosexual relationship" , a child as young as 4 doesn't need to know anything about that sort of thing regardless of sexuality & gender. I'm also against sex education being taught to them at that age .

[GoldHeart]

Also why was this made COMPULSORY :suspect:, as mentioned based on different religions & beliefs ...kids have not taken part in nativity, singing , and other celebrations etc etc .

And now hearing about the type of innapropriate crap that's being put on YouTubekids which is meant to be 'child friendly ', this all sounds like pushing & forcing an agenda on young kids. And has very little to do with just acceptance.

[Crimson Dynamo]

meanwhile the teachers are on strike....

(13 weeks holiday pa)

[Glenn.]

Well what do you mean by "heterosexual relationship" , a child as young as 4 doesn't need to know anything about that sort of thing regardless of sexuality & gender. I'm also against sex education being taught to them at that age .

Children growing up to know that there are more relationships that heterosexual relationships and that it’s normal mean fewer children growing up to be ignorant homophobes. Imagine having a problem with children learning about gay people

[GoldHeart]

Children growing up to know that there are more relationships that heterosexual relationships and that it’s normal mean fewer children growing up to be ignorant homophobes. Imagine having a problem with children learning about gay people

You're actually sending LGBT backwards , the progressive side never listens to anyone who doesn't agree 100% with them.

You talk about acceptance & learning ....and originally the left side almost fooled me into thinking it's just teaching kids "some families have 2 mummy's " & "some families have 2 daddies" , I didn't have a problem if that was all they were saying. But what will a child as young as 4 get out of a pride parade! ? , Or LGBT lessons in general? .

It's going about things the wrong way,but the people who are in charge of these ideas don't give a damn anyway ... about people's concerns. Instead they'll probably just use one of their buzzwords like " terf" or "bigot" against parents or anyone who disagrees .

[Oliver_W]

meanwhile the teachers are on strike....

(13 weeks holiday pa)

Teachers don't get paid for holidays, just FYI.

Monthly salary, sure, but the pay is pro rata.

[Liam-]

Seeing people going down the right wing wormhole live is fascinating, but entirely predictable, starts with questions about trans people and leads to wanting to ‘protect’ kids from the ‘gay agenda’ it’s just proving the point of what the anti-trans movement has been about the entire time and where it was always going to end up, it’s sad

[Glenn.]

You're actually sending LGBT backwards , the progressive side never listens to anyone who doesn't agree 100% with them.

You talk about acceptance & learning ....and originally the left side almost fooled me into thinking it's just teaching kids "some families have 2 mummy's " & "some families have 2 daddies" , I didn't have a problem if that was all they were saying. But what will a child as young as 4 get out of a pride parade! ? , Or LGBT lessons in general? .

It's going about things the wrong way,but the people who are in charge of these ideas don't give a damn anyway ... about people's concerns. Instead they'll probably just use one of their buzzwords like " terf" or "bigot" against parents or anyone who disagrees .

What exactly are you suggesting these kids are experiencing :umm2:

[GoldHeart]

What exactly are you suggesting these kids are experiencing :umm2:

Why don't you watch youtubekids to find out , you'll see all the lovely content on there ... that's supposed to be 'child friendly ' :pat:. Or why don't you watch the video on social media where kids are collecting tips for drag queens??. I guess that's all normal??? :hee: .

[Glenn.]

Why don't you watch youtubekids to find out , you'll see all the lovely content on there ... that's supposed to be 'child friendly ' :pat:. Or why don't you watch the video on social media where kids are collecting tips for drag queens??. I guess that's all normal??? :hee: .

Well you’re so het up over it maybe you can provide some for me.

[Liam-]

I hope you get equally as outraged about parents forcing their kids to go to church? I mean, we all know that history so they can’t be considered safe spaces for children

[Glenn.]

I hope you get equally as outraged about parents forcing their kids to go to church? I mean, we all know that history so they can’t be considered safe spaces for children

Of course they don’t.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Its chilling that an adult teacher (probably on strike today) could think that a "pride march" is suitable for small children

In fact its worrying

[Redway]

Trying to sue the school over that is absolutely stupid and O.T.T. (sorry, Izzy) but I ain’t here for 4-year-olds being forced to partake in a pride parade. That’s as ridiculous as the parent’s reaction.

[Redway]

Even more sad you support someone who opposes your daughters happiness.

To be honest, it’s not really about supporting or being opposed to LGBT people and their rights. It’s about the freedom of 4-year-olds (who should barely even know what sexuality in any shade is about) not being restricted for the sake of a parade that doesn’t even concern 14-year-olds (not really), let alone actual little kids.

[Liam-]

I want to know whether it was an actual ‘parade’ or not though or if it’s being exaggerated to whip up even more anger like these people tend to do a lot

[Redway]

Imagine having a mother like that. Poor child.

I half-agree with much of what you say generally but this ain’t on. If you say that then you’re essentially pitying a good four-fifths of black children worldwide because most black parents are still very anti-gay and low-key homophobic.

[Liam-]

Of course they don’t.

Nope, because straight people aren’t considered natural dangerous to vulnerable people, everybody can see how thinly veiled the bigotry is except the people that are getting sucked into the toxicity of it all

[Beso]

I hope you get equally as outraged about parents forcing their kids to go to church? I mean, we all know that history so they can’t be considered safe spaces for children

So you are admitting it is wrong, and as bad as forcing religion on children?

[bots]

this is being funded by the same legal team that encouraged that grieving mother to keep her dead son on life support long past the time he was brain dead. That should tell everyone all they need to know

[GoldHeart]

I hope you get equally as outraged about parents forcing their kids to go to church? I mean, we all know that history so they can’t be considered safe spaces for children

I swear you have selective vision & hearing ,I literally said there's kids with different beliefs who will not take part in religious stuff or celebrations.

[Liam-]

this is being funded by the same legal team that encouraged that grieving mother to keep her dead son on life support long past the time he was brain dead. That should tell everyone all they need to know

Yep, agenda pushing rigorous cranks out to target anything they see as ‘immoral’

[Redway]

And you think somehow forcing LGBT ideology on her kid will help matters??? . You're never going to agree with everyone, there's plenty of stuff we all disagree on in life . But you can't go around dictating people.... whilst trying to indoctrinate aswell .

Exactly. What’s more offensive than anything the mother’s said or done is a lack of appreciation and acknowledgment of cultural nuances on this thread by people who are supposed to be some of the most anti-racist people on this forum. Most black children come from the most loving homes but the situational cultural context is by-and-large a bit different and certain values (especially as far as active religion goes) are held more conservatively and intensely so black people generally are far more likely to be homophobic and anti-gay than white people and everyone knows that deep down. I’m not saying it applies to the vast, vast majority of black parents or that it might not need challenging on a cultural level (I’m not getting into that) but there’s no point naively pretending that two Jamaican parents or a family of strict Deeper Life Bible Church members are going to be about the LGBT propaganda like that. It’s a bit different with second-gen./millennial folk but you can’t force that type of ideology or practice unquestionably on the typical first-generation black family to accept for their kids. You just can’t and that’s that. It doesn’t make the parents bad or thoroughly-bigoted people. It makes them people who hold different cultural and religious values.

[Cherie]

Exactly. What’s more offensive than anything the mother’s said or done is a lack of appreciation and acknowledgment of cultural nuances on this thread by people who are supposed to be some of the most anti-racist people on this forum. Most black children come from the most loving homes but the situational cultural context is by-and-large a bit different and certain values (especially as far as active religion goes) are held more conservatively and intensely so black people generally are far more likely to be homophobic and anti-gay than white people and everyone knows that deep down. I’m not saying it applies to the vast, vast majority of black parents or that it might not need challenging on a cultural level (I’m not getting into that) but there’s no point naively pretending that two Jamaican parents or a family of strict Deeper Life Bible Church members are going to be about the LGBT propaganda like that. It’s a bit different with second-gen./millennial folk but you can’t force that type of ideology or practice unquestionably on the typical first-generation black family to accept for their kids. You just can’t and that’s that. It doesn’t make the parents bad or thoroughly-bigoted people. It makes them people who hold different cultural and religious values.

:clap1: and the ironic thing is this is generally accepted in other faiths but not in Christianity

[GoldHeart]

[/B]

:clap1: and the ironic thing is this is generally accepted in other faiths but not in Christianity

Cherie
Christianity & Catholicsm is always an easy target , just look at how Sam Smith & Madonna mocks it .

[Liam-]

Poor Christian’s, the real victims of the world :bawling:

[Glenn.]

I half-agree with much of what you say generally but this ain’t on. If you say that then you’re essentially pitying a good four-fifths of black children worldwide because most black parents are still very anti-gay and low-key homophobic.

I despise all homophobia so yes.

[Cherie]

Cherie
Christianity & Catholicsm is always an easy target , just look at how Sam Smith & Madonna mocks it .

Yip soft touch...

[Cherie]

Poor Christian’s, the real victims of the world :bawling:

Are you sure that’s not the gays :laugh:

[GoldHeart]

Poor Christian’s, the real victims of the world :bawling:

Surely you'd feel the same about Islam & Judaism :hee:, too scared you'll be called "islamphobic" & "antisemitic" ?.

[Liam-]

Surely you'd feel the same about Islam & Judaism :hee:, too scared you'll be called "islamphobic" & "antisemitic" ?.

What?

[Redway]

I despise all homophobia so yes.

So most black parents are terrible just because the unique cultural and religious values they align with don’t approve of homosexuality as a lifestyle? Got it.

[GoldHeart]

What?

You know exactly what I'm saying.
Islam & Judaism hold similar views if not more strict :hee: .

[GoldHeart]

So most black parents are terrible just because the unique cultural and religious values they align with don’t approve of homosexuality as a lifestyle? Got it.

Exactly
You can't force people to change their culture & views they've held all their lives.

[Liam-]

You know exactly what I'm saying.
Islam & Judaism hold similar views if not more strict :hee: .

Okay? And I think anybody that hides behind religion to justify their bigotry are assholes, you’ve got this massive chip on your shoulder all of a sudden and I don’t know what you want me to say

[Glenn.]

So most black parents are terrible just because the unique cultural and religious values they align with don’t approve of homosexuality as a lifestyle? Got it.

Homosexuality isn’t a lifestyle so they hide behind religion. I feel immensely sorry for the children born to these people especially those who are gay themselves. Not quite sure what point your trying to make?

Should we accept homophobia because of someone’s religion?

[GoldHeart]

Homosexuality isn’t a lifestyle so they hide behind religion. I feel immensely sorry for the children born to these people especially those who are gay themselves. Not quite sure what point your trying to make?

Should we accept homophobia because of someone’s religion?

So refusing a child as young as 4 years old to take part in LGBT lessons/ pride parades is "homophobia" ,so the parent doesn't have rights anymore by sounds of it !??. What a lovely world we live in :bored: .

At the end of the day it's the parents choice, it's wrong to force this . And if you want acceptance ... like I said it's going about it the wrong way.

There's books now teaching kids to run to school counselors & teachers , to talk about their 'gender' & 'sexuality'....very harmful imo , it's encouraging kids to hide stuff from their parents.
Like the word of parents don't mean anything ... like what the actual hell ??, until you're 18 you are still a minor .

[Glenn.]

So refusing a child as young as 4 years old to take part in LGBT lessons/ pride parades is "homophobia" ,so the parent doesn't have rights anymore by sounds of it !??. What a lovely world we live in :bored: .

At the end of the day it's the parents choice, it's wrong to force this . And if you want acceptance ... like I said it's going about it the wrong way.

There's books now teaching kids to run to school counselors & teachers , to talk about their 'gender' & 'sexuality'....very harmful imo , it's encouraging kids to hide stuff from their parents.
Like the word of parents don't mean anything ... like what the actual hell ??, until you're 18 you are still a minor .

It’s not the rights of the parents that’s the issue you fool. It’s the reasons for the refusal in this case because of the mothers appalling homophobia. That’s the homophobic part.

Parents have a responsibility to bring their children up to be respectful of all walks of life.

I’m done talking to you know. I have no idea what the hell your problem is and why you’ve turned into this. I don’t know whether you’re just bored and feel like going against your entire personality or what but I’m not entertaining it.

[Liam-]

Counsellors and teachers are there to educate and care for the children while they’re in school, if a child is having thoughts and feelings they don’t feel safe or comfortable sharing with their parents for whatever reason, then children should be told that they can open up to people they feel comfortable with, just sounds like you want children to suffer in silence to me

[GoldHeart]

It’s not the rights of the parents that’s the issue you fool. It’s the reasons for the refusal in this case because of the mothers appalling homophobia. That’s the homophobic part.

Parents have a responsibility to bring their children up to be respectful of all walks of life.

I’m done talking to you know. I have no idea what the hell your problem is and why you’ve turned into this. I don’t know whether you’re just bored and feel like going against your entire personality or what but I’m not entertaining it.

Go on discord and slag all the tibbers down then ,see if I care . You are really rude when you talk to people on here ,I've never called you names. You need to control your anger issues :hee: .

My personality is the same,my eyes have been opened that's all.

I still say the parent has a right to refuse this type of teaching in school , especially when the kid is as young as 4 .

[Glenn.]

Go on discord and slag all the tibbers down then ,see if I care . You are really rude when you talk to people on here ,I've never called you names. You need to control your anger issues :hee: .

My personality is the same,my eyes have been opened that's all.

I still say the parent has a right to refuse this type of teaching in school , especially when the kid is as young as 4 .

Ok parm. This obsession with discord is so funny. Like imagine thinking a vibrant free community full of all walks of life, discuss this cesspit of bigotry and hatred. Surely you just see why they prefer to spend their time there rather than here?

I’ll let you get on with trolling with the rest of of middle aged men

[GoldHeart]

Counsellors and teachers are there to educate and care for the children while they’re in school, if a child is having thoughts and feelings they don’t feel safe or comfortable sharing with their parents for whatever reason, then children should be told that they can open up to people they feel comfortable with, just sounds like you want children to suffer in silence to me

You're just twisting things , I never said a child should suffer in silence. And yes there is instances where children confide in teachers & counsellors ...as they can't speak to their parents, or they might be getting abused by their family etc. But that's not what I'm saying.

I'm talking about discussions about gender & sexuality, there seems to be this thing now where a teacher will know more about the kid than the parent themself...and that's wrong. Surely the teacher should encourage both parent & child to talk to eachother .

[GoldHeart]

Ok parm. This obsession with discord is so funny. Like imagine thinking a vibrant free community full of all walks of life, discuss this cesspit of bigotry and hatred. Surely you just see why they prefer to spend their time there rather than here?

I’ll let you get on with trolling with the rest of of middle aged men

I use discord but I don't spend my time on there worried about what other tibbers are doing.

I don't know why you're calling me "Parm" , you're obviously obsessed with him.

As for "other middle aged men" , well first off I'm a WOMAN and I'm nowhere near middle aged...but ok :idc:.

[Glenn.]

I use discord but I don't spend my time on there worried about what other tibbers are doing.

I don't know why you're calling me "Parm" , you're obviously obsessed with him.

As for "other middle aged men" , well first off I'm a WOMAN and I'm nowhere near middle aged...but ok :idc:.

Neither does anyone else

Parm is obsessed with that discord server that’s why I called you parm. I think you may of seen it as a gotcha but failed.

You might not be a middle age man but you debate like one

[Liam-]

You're just twisting things , I never said a child should suffer in silence. And yes there is instances where children confide in teachers & counsellors ...as they can't speak to their parents, or they might be getting abused by their family etc. But that's not what I'm saying.

I'm talking about discussions about gender & sexuality, there seems to be this thing now where a teacher will know more about the kid than the parent themself...and that's wrong. Surely the teacher should encourage both parent & child to talk to eachother .

And if a child is uncomfortable talking to their parents or guardians about those things for whatever reason, whether it be abuse, or bigotry, then teachers and councillors they feel comfortable with are the next best options, if you don’t want them to be able to do that, then yes, you most certainly do want them to suffer in silence

[GoldHeart]

Neither does anyone else

Parm is obsessed with that discord server that’s why I called you parm. I think you may of seen it as a gotcha but failed.

You might not be a middle age man but you debate like one

All you've done is talk to me like trash .

Saying I debate " like a middle aged man " ...is ridiculous lol . I don't agree with you , therefore you spit your dummy out .

[Glenn.]

All you've done is talk to me like trash .

Saying I debate " like a middle aged man " ...is ridiculous lol . I don't agree with you , therefore you spit your dummy out .

Talk to you like trash? Calling you up on your ignorance isn’t talking to you like trash. I don’t agree with anything you say because it’s wrong and very damaging.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Neither does anyone else

Parm is obsessed with that discord server that’s why I called you parm. I think

he isnt

can you back up that wayward statement??

i

[Glenn.]

Didn’t he make a thread about discord like three days ago :skull:

[Redway]

Seeing people going down the right wing wormhole live is fascinating, but entirely predictable, starts with questions about trans people and leads to wanting to ‘protect’ kids from the ‘gay agenda’ it’s just proving the point of what the anti-trans movement has been about the entire time and where it was always going to end up, it’s sad

No-one on this thread’s being right-wing, not even LeatherTrumpet. It’s more a case of not thinking a 4-year-old should have to take part in an LGBT parade if they don’t want to or their parents would rather they didn’t. 4-year-olds don’t need to know about any of that stuff.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Didn’t he make a thread about discord like three days ago :skull:

did he?

apols if i missed this

but making one thread?

[Glenn.]

No-one on this thread’s being right-wing, not even LeatherTrumpet. It’s more a case of not thinking a 4-year-old should have to take part in an LGBT parade if they don’t want to or their parents would rather they didn’t. 4-year-olds don’t need to know about any of that stuff.

Again it’s not the not wanting her child to attend the parade it’s the reasons for her not wanting her child to. She’s been on tv with her backwards opinions about homosexuality. That’s the issue here

[Redway]

Homosexuality isn’t a lifestyle so they hide behind religion. I feel immensely sorry for the children born to these people especially those who are gay themselves. Not quite sure what point your trying to make?

Should we accept homophobia because of someone’s religion?

It’s not even about religion so much as it is overall culture. I’m not here to say whether it’s right or wrong but if you know anything about the different shades of black culture beyond Brian Belo-type figures you’d know and even straight-up acknowledge here how different the experience is and you’d be allowed. Under a colour-blind illusion we like to pretend that we’re all exactly the same and have exactly the same values but we don’t and we’re not. And to tell you the truth black kids don’t need your sympathy (unless they align much more with the gay side of things and their parents wouldn’t or don’t like it). They just need you to put things into context and stop applying the same cultural standards that you would to your average contemporary English family with people who migrated from Montego Bay, Ilorin, Umuahia and Sudan. Unique cultural values are values and they can’t be forced to change.

I’m not trying to fall out with you, Glenn (I respect you and stuff), but at the end of the day these kids are eating jollof rice, plantain porridge and oxtail curry whereas you likely grew up on mushy peas, fish fingers and black pudding more than anything else. They do not need copious amounts of sympathy from you just for having parents who disagree with homosexuality.

[Redway]

You may not think it’s very politically correct and colour-blind (what we being colour-blind for in the first place?) to be saying all this, Glenn, but it’s the truth and you should know it.

[Redway]

I hope you get equally as outraged about parents forcing their kids to go to church? I mean, we all know that history so they can’t be considered safe spaces for children

You’re talking about Catholic churches. Many kids find comfort in Assemblies of God and St Stephen’s and Sunday-school (and it’s not like St Stephen’s hasn’t christened some of the best people and most adorable babies) so you’re going to have to vex for Virgin Mary alone.

[Crimson Dynamo]

To ignore this womans cultural christianity and judge her through a UK lens is very harsh. sorry but im with Redway here.

[Redway]

To ignore this womans cultural christianity and judge her through a UK lens is very harsh. sorry but im with Redway here.

Thank you.

[GoldHeart]

It’s not even about religion so much as it is overall culture. I’m not here to say whether it’s right or wrong but if you know anything about the different shades of black culture beyond Brian Belo-type figures you’d know and even straight-up acknowledge here how different the experience is and you’d be allowed. Under a colour-blind illusion we like to pretend that we’re all exactly the same and have exactly the same values but we don’t and we’re not. And to tell you the truth black kids don’t need your sympathy (unless they align much more with the gay side of things and their parents wouldn’t or don’t like it). They just need you to put things into context and stop applying the same cultural standards that you would to your average contemporary English family with people who migrated from Montego Bay, Ilorin, Umuahia and Sudan. Unique cultural values are values and they can’t be forced to change.

I’m not trying to fall out with you, Glenn (I respect you and stuff), but at the end of the day these kids are eating jollof rice, plantain porridge and oxtail curry whereas you likely grew up on mushy peas, fish fingers and black pudding more than anything else. They do not need copious amounts of sympathy from you just for having parents who disagree with homosexuality.

:clap1:

[Redway]

It’s a bit like forcing a Jewish kid to sit through a triggering anti-Semitic recount of the Holocaust as part of a history lesson just to make everyone aware that different opinions exist. Sorry but … yeah, no.

[GoldHeart]

It’s a bit like forcing a Jewish kid to sit through a triggering anti-Semitic recount of the Holocaust as part of a history lesson just to make everyone aware that different opinions exist. Sorry but … yeah, no.

Exactly
The way I see it .... nobody should be forced to do any of this. And it's more absurd it's being pushed for a child as young as 4 years old !.

The only things that SHOULD be COMPULSORY in school is grammar & learning how to read etc .

[Liam-]

It’s a bit like forcing a Jewish kid to sit through a triggering anti-Semitic recount of the Holocaust as part of a history lesson just to make everyone aware that different opinions exist. Sorry but … yeah, no.

Teaching kids about human differences is like forcing a Jewish kid to hear antisemitism is a wild comparison, even for you

[Liam-]

This forum is ****ing mad at time I swear

[Oliver_W]

Teaching kids about human differences is like forcing a Jewish kid to hear antisemitism is a wild comparison, even for you

Can you think of ways to teach about differences which don't include parades or drag?

[GoldHeart]

Can you think of ways to teach about differences which don't include parades or drag?

View youtubekids and you'll see what I'm talking about.

[Oliver_W]

View youtubekids and you'll see what I'm talking about.

"Go onto the internet.com to find out more"

[Redway]

Teaching kids about human differences is like forcing a Jewish kid to hear antisemitism is a wild comparison, even for you

What’s ‘even for me’ supposed to mean?

[GoldHeart]

What’s ‘even for me’ supposed to mean?

They can't debate without throwing insults at members on here .

[Redway]

No, what’s that supposed to mean, Liam?

[Redway]

They can't debate without throwing insults at members on here .

O-ho. That’s the one, apparently.

[thesheriff443]

Strangers thinking they have more rights to what a child is exposed to than the actual child’s parents.

The sense of entitlement is deranged

[GoldHeart]

Strangers thinking they have more rights to what a child is exposed to than the actual child’s parents.

The sense of entitlement is deranged

Welcome to 2023 unfortunately

[Beso]

Neither does anyone else

Parm is obsessed with that discord server that’s why I called you parm. I think you may of seen it as a gotcha but failed.

You might not be a middle age man but you debate like one

I couldn't give 2 ****s about you washerwomen over on discord, I was invited to join but turned it down because I'm to obsessed with it.

[Beso]

And if a child is uncomfortable talking to their parents or guardians about those things for whatever reason, whether it be abuse, or bigotry, then teachers and councillors they feel comfortable with are the next best options, if you don’t want them to be able to do that, then yes, you most certainly do want them to suffer in silence

Doctors and police are the next best option..not teachers.

[Beso]

did he?

apols if i missed this

but making one thread?

I made a thread about other internet sites and the title included discord..I think the thread was deleted because glenn and others couldnt help arguing and name calling each other in the thread.


Perhaps a mod can elaborate because I wasnt around when it kicked off.

[GoldHeart]

Doctors and police are the next best option..not teachers.

When I was a kid .... there was good & bad teachers .But I tell you something , I'm glad I don't have kids if these are the types of teachers around today . I wouldn't be able to deal with this type of nonsense.

[Mystic Mock]

To ignore this womans cultural christianity and judge her through a UK lens is very harsh. sorry but im with Redway here.

I agree that she has her own cultural values that may differ to the average person that lives in the UK.

But ultimately she lives in the UK, so she does kind of have to accept that UK Schools aren't Homophobic.

[Mystic Mock]

It’s a bit like forcing a Jewish kid to sit through a triggering anti-Semitic recount of the Holocaust as part of a history lesson just to make everyone aware that different opinions exist. Sorry but … yeah, no.

Tbh they'll learn about the Holocaust deniers very early on in their lives I would imagine.

[Redway]

Tbh they'll learn about the Holocaust deniers very early on in their lives I would imagine.

I was using that as a very extreme example, Mock. I don’t want my earlier post to be taken out of context or more literally than it should be.

[Redway]

I agree that she has her own cultural values that may differ to the average person that lives in the UK.

But ultimately she lives in the UK, so she does kind of have to accept that UK Schools aren't Homophobic.

That’s a point but ultimately that child was 4 years old, Mock. 4.

[Mystic Mock]

I was using that as a very extreme example, Mock. I don’t want my earlier post to be taken out of context or more literally than it should be.

Oh I understand that.

I just honestly think it's sad that there are even Holocaust deniers in the first place.

[Mystic Mock]

That’s a point but ultimately that child was 4 years old, Mock. 4.

Out of interest was it open to being a sexual/abusive situation? Because normally Schools are extra vigilant when it's really young kids around the Nursery age group in particular.

Or at least they was back when I attended Primary School, and yes I'm aware that I sounded like a boomer.:laugh:

[Cherie]

I agree that she has her own cultural values that may differ to the average person that lives in the UK.

But ultimately she lives in the UK, so she does kind of have to accept that UK Schools aren't Homophobic.

When people come to the UK from other nations they dont just magically drop everything they knew and values they hold, and this goes for children of migrants as well, its much more nuanced than that

[bots]

on the one side you have a bunch of religious fanatics with an agenda, on the other you have a controlling, woke school. Neither is a palatable option to me

[Crimson Dynamo]

whT6Y-NMl2U

[Liam-]

When I was a kid .... there was good & bad teachers .But I tell you something , I'm glad I don't have kids if these are the types of teachers around today . I wouldn't be able to deal with this type of nonsense.

You’re glad you don’t have kids because teachers are willing to help and understand children when other people aren’t? Now that, is nonsense

[Redway]

You’re glad you don’t have kids because teachers are willing to help and understand children when other people aren’t? Now that, is nonsense

And hey, people absolutely deserve to be heard and understood but kids who are half a step above nursery-age are just too young to be forced to join a pride parade.

[user104658]

Realistically they have no idea what it's about either way at that age. It's just a colourful parade. they have no idea what it's about or what a sexual relationship is at that age. The idea that children are "born with a gender" is quite obviously nonsense as genderised traits are arbitrary and social-defined, and the science is inconclusive on sexual orientation but (IMO) not really all that relevant... whether sexuality is ingrained at birth or develops over time, it isn't (or shouldn't be unless something is very wrong) present at 4 years old.

Kids are just kids and any attempt to make them "part" of LGBTQ is something being applied by adults. That shouldn't be happening, but if they're just there as observers? I don't see anything wrong with that on balance.

So long as it's not a full adult-style parade where sometimes people are not fully dressed.

[user104658]

Although as an addendum to that: Parent's choice, always, no questions asked. Schools and governments should not be interfering in parenting unless there's clear abuse or neglect. It's just too much of a slippery slope.

[user104658]

Oh and also to the idea that "people had to do the nativity, no questions asked" that's clearly not right, as even in the early 90's when I was a small school kid I quite clearly remember a handful of kids not taking part on ANY Christmas activities or school assemblies on religious grounds and as the parent's choice. My class had one kid who was allowed to do "general" Christmas stuff like Santa and Elves and Christmas trees etc. but nothing about God/Bebe Jesus, and one who wasn't allowed to be involved in any of it at all. Which I do find a bit sad. Like I don't believe in spooks and fairies either but just let your kids make a lollipop stick Mary ffs, they're not going to come home quoting scripture.

[Oliver_W]

Realistically they have no idea what it's about either way at that age. It's just a colourful parade.

Agreed. Even if we pretend that Pride parades never contain stuff which is inappropriate for children, they're not the best way to teach acceptance as it's just a mess of noise and colour.