Tucker Carlson said he hates Trump 'passionately', lawsuit reveals

[GiRTh]

Fox News host Tucker Carlson said in a text message after the 2020 election that he "passionately hated" Donald Trump, according to new court filings.

Mr Carlson's message to a colleague in January 2021 emerged as part of a defamation lawsuit by Dominion Voting Systems against Fox News.

The electronic voting firm accuses the network of promoting baseless claims of vote-rigging in the election.

The latest filings in the case suggest Mr Carlson expressed his dislike of the outgoing US president two days before Trump supporters stormed the US Capitol to derail lawmakers from certifying Joe Biden's election win.

"We are very, very close to being able to ignore Trump most nights," he wrote in a text sent on 4 January 2021. "I truly can't wait."

"I hate him passionately," he added.

Mr Carlson, the top-rated host on the conservative network, also appeared to denigrate the Trump presidency in these private messages, despite lauding his achievements on air.

"That's the last four years. We're all pretending we've got a lot to show for it, because admitting what a disaster it's been is too tough to digest. But come on. There isn't really an upside to Trump."

Dominion argues in its lawsuit that top executives and some hosts at the conservative cable network knew that the conspiracy claims pushed by Donald Trump and his allies on Fox News programmes were false but still put them on air.

Previous filings have revealed that even Rupert Murdoch, the billionaire owner of Fox News, acknowledged some of the network's stars endorsed false claims that the 2020 election was stolen.

Fox hosts endorsed false election claims - Murdoch
In a statement provided to the BBC's US partner CBS News on Tuesday night, Fox News said: "Thanks to today's filings, Dominion has been caught red-handed again using more distortions and misinformation in their PR campaign to smear Fox News and trample on free speech and freedom of the press."

A jury trial is expected to begin in Delaware in April.

The text message revelations come amid a fresh round of criticism that Mr Carlson misrepresented exclusive security-camera footage given to Fox to downplay the severity of the riot two years ago at Congress.

Mr Carlson showed the previously unseen clips on Monday night and argued it "does not show an insurrection or a riot in progress", but rather "mostly peaceful chaos".

Criticism of the segment came from Democrats as well as top Republicans in Washington, the head of Capitol police, and the family of the police officer whose death was mentioned by Mr Carlson on the show.

Tucker Carlson said he hates Trump 'passionately', lawsuit reveals (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-64886188)

Wow.

[Oliver_W]

I don't know enough about Carlson to know why that's significant?

[bots]

can't stand the guy, never watch any media he is on

[user104658]

I don't know enough about Carlson to know why that's significant?

He's basically the face of Fox News / MAGA culture / champion of Trump supporting hicks across America... totally "team Trump" when on the air. This basically shows that he (and Fox News in general) is utterly full of **** and just appealing to what's popular with their viewers.

Not a surprise to most people.

In short; it's like Piers Morgan getting his WhatsApp leaked, and it being full of texts saying "Can't ****ing stand the Monarchy, thank god the Queen is dead now and that might be the end of them in a few years."

Or an email from Nigel Farage saying "Brexit probably wasn't a very good idea after all!"

[arista]

Yes FoxNews
now backing the Florida Leader
who still has not said he will run

[Crimson Dynamo]

News media making content to get more views to make more money?

This is a shock

[user104658]

News media making content to get more views to make more money?

This is a shock

Not a shock to anyone with half a brain but you have to remember we're talking about Fox News viewers here LT... they've put a tonne of stock in what Tucker has said on all sorts of topics over the years.

Turns out he doesn't believe half of it himself.

That is pretty major.

[Liam-]

Keeping in mind Tucker and his producer or whoever said under oath in court that reasonable people would never take anything said on his show as fact, this doesn’t surprise me in the slightest, they’re just grifters of the highest order, stoking flames and hatred amongst groups of people for their own personal, financial gain, they’re gonna lose billions to dominion in that defamation lawsuit and I hope they lose even more after that, that ‘news’ network is a scourge on society

[GiRTh]

Not a shock to anyone with half a brain but you have to remember we're talking about Fox News viewers here LT... they've put a tonne of stock in what Tucker has said on all sorts of topics over the years.

Turns out he doesn't believe half of it himself.

That is pretty major.
Also, it displays that thing that is so hard to prove in court - Intent. They knew they were bull****ting their viewers.

I agree this is big

[Swan]

I don't watch Tucker, only ever see clips of him, i really can't abide that gormless grin he seems set on when listening to people talk.

[Oliver_W]

I don't watch Tucker, only ever see clips of him, i really can't abide that gormless grin he seems set on when listening to people talk.

I don't think I've even heard his voice, I've just seen his face with that "Intense and Serious" stare in the thumbnail for YouTube vids that get shared around :joker:

[Alf]

And yet he's not bias against Trump in his journalism.

That's a real journalist for you right there.

[Alf]

The real story here, what this story is trying to cover up and discredit the real story is that Tucker has just got the biggest scoop in American journalism in years and years, and they don't only want to discredit him and take him down because he exposes the deep state, but they're jealous of his scoop too.

He's obviously just shown the "January the fix"

[bots]

Alf and the conspiracy nonsense again. This is about fox news and the lies they peddled

[Alf]

Also, it displays that thing that is so hard to prove in court - Intent. They knew they were bull****ting their viewers.

I agree this is big:laugh:

Behave yourself, I've had bigger sh!ts

[Alf]

Alf and the conspiracy nonsense again. This is about fox news and the lies they peddledListen, I called out Fox news as corrupt after they were the ones that called the election for Biden first. You sided with them against me then.

But here, Tucker exposes the January 6th lies and suddenly the next day they make a move on atticking him personally.

Senate leader Chuck Schumer publicly begged Rupert Murdoch to censor Tucker. That goes against the first ammendment right there.

They're panicking because the walls are closing in on them.

Smell those smelling salts.

[Alf]

This is why deep state politicians and controlled news are going after Tucker. He did this bit of journalism to them.


1632914315069083649

[Alf]

Here is Chuck Schumer begging Rupert Murdoch to take Tucker of air for exposing their January 6th lies.

He's calling for the news to be censored from the American people.



1633503758154956800

[Alf]

These are the same people that went on air every night for 3 years with the fake Russia, Russia, Russia hoax. All because Trump (the peacetime President) wouldn't step in line and bow down to them.

[user104658]

Those videos have been kicking around literally since a few weeks after it happened Alf. I don't know who told you they were new but - again - you're just repeating falsehoods.

Note that I'm not saying that "Shaman" wasn't scapegoated - I'm just saying these "escorted around by the police" Capitol videos have been public for over 2 years.

[Alf]

Those videos have been kicking around literally since a few weeks after it happened Alf. I don't know who told you they were new but - again - you're just repeating falsehoods.

Note that I'm not saying that "Shaman" wasn't scapegoated - I'm just saying these "escorted around by the police" Capitol videos have been public for over 2 years.Not these particularly videos haven't.

House leader Kevin McCarthy just gave them to Tucker.

It may even be possible that the footage we saw was made in Hollywood. I'm not saying that's what happened, but don't rule it out, it's possible.

[Alf]

Those videos have been kicking around literally since a few weeks after it happened Alf. I don't know who told you they were new but - again - you're just repeating falsehoods.

Note that I'm not saying that "Shaman" wasn't scapegoated - I'm just saying these "escorted around by the police" Capitol videos have been public for over 2 years.Don't know who you've been listening to to make you think I'm repeating falsehoods. Here is House speaker Kevin McCarthy answering the press questions about him just giving this footage to Tucker.

I'm always here to help you out with the facts.


1633276405046730752

[Oliver_W]

Yeah to be fair I thought I heard about new footage being recently released?

[user104658]

Yeah to be fair I thought I heard about new footage being recently released?

There may be some new footage but there were reports, photos and footage of police (supposedly) escorting people, including the "Shaman", around the Capitol as far back as 2021. In fact - I'd swear some of it was posted on here at the time.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I got sent a long clip of Mike Graham and Kevin O'Sullivan talking about Khan the London Mayor today (about his ridiculous tirade calling people far right (tom take note)

Both thought the mic was off but it was not

What was refreshing was that apart from liberal use of feck and c un t what they talked about was exactly what they say on Talk TV

Tucker take note..

[The Slim Reaper]

https://media.tenor.com/ipgt_R7A5lsAAAAM/jordan-laughing-michael-jordan.gif

News media making content to get more views to make more money?

This is a shock

Does this mean you now disavow all the tucker vids you've posted?

https://media.giphy.com/media/p0RDMJGgMXF96/giphy.gif

[Crimson Dynamo]

https://media.tenor.com/ipgt_r7a5lsaaaam/jordan-laughing-michael-jordan.gif



does this mean you now disavow all the tucker vids you've posted?

https://media.giphy.com/media/p0rdmjggmxf96/giphy.gif

as much as all the twitter and guardian ones you have?

[The Slim Reaper]

as much as all the twitter and guardian ones you have?

I also post my own opinions, which is why there hasn't ever been a topic I've posted on, where I've relied on a video of someone saying something for me, because I was too scared or ashamed to post my own thoughts.

:smug:

[Alf]

Worse than 9/11



HmsbTNuxk1w






I give you exhibit A. Biden's press Secretary, speaking on behalf of Brandon.


1633590394792599552

[Alf]

Just tell me if this makes sense to you?

This is from the Attorney General.

Who are the five? Where is the investigation into these five deaths?

Are we just suppose to deny reality? Are you onside for doing that or do you desire the truth in life?



1633638329521405959

[Alf]

Watch

They think they've got a gotcha and way to debunk Tucker here. But listen to them, they're telling you what they're capable of doing and I have no doubt have done for years. That's how they all stay rich and in power.


1633646806457368576

[Alf]

Also just look how in panic for themselves they are because of Tuckers scoop.

They're supposed to be bringing you the news and instead they're just making up ways how they can debunk Tucker.

It's right in front of your eyes, you just need to wake up and see it.

[Alf]

Tucker invites those critics of his on to his show to have their say. Of course, they refuse. Why? This is their opportunity to win the argument against Tucker, one on one for us all to witness. Why wouldn't you want that if you have the truth?

They don't want to debate him, they just want him silenced instead. That should tell you all you need to know.



1633658143795482629

[Alf]

This thread title tells you that "Tucker hates Trump passionately" but here is Tucker tonight praising Trump policies.

Do you believe what they tell you or do you believe what you see with your own eyes?



1633651460830375936

[Alf]

While Tucker is actually bringing us some bombshell news based in reality. This is what CNN are going with.

They're this confident that you're that brainwashed in fantasy that they've pumped into you, that you will buy this from them. The question is, are they right?


1633535841321783296

[Alf]

Worse than 9/11


1633040647165984770

[arista]

Russell Brand
has given, a Interview with Tucker Carlson
on FoxNation the online channel.


Tucker showed a clip on his FoxNewsHD show.



When Bill O'Reilly was big on FoxNews
Russell was outside their building in NYC.
Moaning about Fox News.



[In April 2017, The New York Times
reported that Fox News and O'Reilly had s
ettled five lawsuits involving women who
accused O'Reilly of misconduct.
After the settlements were reported,
The O'Reilly Factor lost more than
half its advertisers within a week;
almost 60 companies withdrew their
television advertising from the show
amid a growing backlash against O'Reilly.
On April 11, O'Reilly
announced he would
take a two-week vacation and
would returnto the program on April 24;
he normally took a vacation around Easter.
On April 2017, Fox News announced
that O'Reilly would not be
returning to the network]


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_O%27Reilly_(political_commentator)

[user104658]

This thread title tells you that "Tucker hates Trump passionately" but here is Tucker tonight praising Trump policies.

Do you believe what they tell you or do you believe what you see with your own eyes?


I think the point might have gone over your head here Alf. Tucker has been praising and complimenting Trump on the air and in public, whilst admitting in private that he doesn't actually like Trump at all and it's all for the benefit of the viewers.

That's... what the thread is about... :umm2:

[Crimson Dynamo]

shocking footage :shocked:

cuMwJhCQFZY

[user104658]

I swear to god, we've seen loads of this footage before, including the QAnon Shaman stuff. IS this the Mandella effect - have I popped into another universe?? THis all came out within the first 6 months of 2021! Why is it being reported like it's revelatory stuff in 2023!

[The Slim Reaper]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FrIjv5lXoAEfoaK?format=jpg&name=small

If I get caught doing the crimes, you can get caught doing crimes, we can all get caught doing the crimes

https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/2017-10/11/15/asset/buzzfeed-prod-fastlane-02/anigif_sub-buzz-17192-1507748668-1.gif

[Alf]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FrIjv5lXoAEfoaK?format=jpg&name=small

If I get caught doing the crimes, you can get caught doing crimes, we can all get caught doing the crimes

https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/2017-10/11/15/asset/buzzfeed-prod-fastlane-02/anigif_sub-buzz-17192-1507748668-1.gifHe's been caught doing crimes?

[The Slim Reaper]

He's been caught doing crimes?

He was caught pretty red handed stealing nuclear secrets.

The porn star payoff has already provided a conviction and trump was down as a co-conspirator. unable to be prosecuted because of the job he had at the time.

He was recorded telling someone to "find" votes

So yeah, I reckon he has.

Whether he faces punishment is a totally different story.

[Liam-]

Don’t forget the tax fraud scheme in New York, that’s one of my personal favourites

[Alf]

He was caught pretty red handed stealing nuclear secrets.

The porn star payoff has already provided a conviction and trump was down as a co-conspirator. unable to be prosecuted because of the job he had at the time.

He was recorded telling someone to "find" votes

So yeah, I reckon he has.

Whether he faces punishment is a totally different story.Nuclear secrets :laugh:

It's quite obvious they were looking for his copy of Hunter Biden's laptop and any more dirt he had on them.

[The Slim Reaper]

Don’t forget the tax fraud scheme in New York, that’s one of my personal favourites

Have a feeling these things will be easier to pass along blame if he insulated himself enough. His CFO is sitting in jail at the moment because trump insulates himself pretty well in the main. He may end up throwing one of his kids in jail to take the fall for him, but he won't have any 2nd thoughts about doing that.

[Alf]

Don’t forget the tax fraud scheme in New York, that’s one of my personal favouritesRun that one past us again. It's hard to keep up with all the accusations.

[The Slim Reaper]

Nuclear secrets :laugh:

It's quite obvious they were looking for his copy of Hunter Biden's laptop and any more dirt he had on them.

Why would him having a copy of what is claimed to be HB's laptop, matter? There are already copies out and about. At least come up with a coherent conspiracy we can get behind.

As an aside, one of the weirdest things about his laptop is the desperation of conservatives to see pictures of HB's schlong. Truly, truly weird.

[Alf]

Why would him having a copy of what is claimed to be HB's laptop, matter? There are already copies out and about. At least come up with a coherent conspiracy we can get behind.

As an aside, one of the weirdest things about his laptop is the desperation of conservatives to see pictures of HB's schlong. Truly, truly weird.Well the FBI have had a copy since 2019. They've hid it, even denied it existed in the run up to the election as well as telling social media sites to cover up or deny any suggestion of it.

Then that same FBI raided Trump as well as Guiliani (did Guiliani have nuclear secrets too)

That's why they'd want it, so it can never get out.

But don't just get stuck on the laptop, I did say "other things he had on the deep state"

It certainly wasn't nuclear secrets, unless you think the media tells you the truth?

I've seen his schlong, he's a big chap. It's depressing that you only think Conservatives are concerned about this laptop. You're making Conservatives sound like the good guys.

[The Slim Reaper]

Well the FBI have had a copy since 2019. They've hid it, even denied it existed in the run up to the election as well as telling social media sites to cover up or deny any suggestion of it.

Then that same FBI raided Trump as well as Guiliani (did Guiliani have nuclear secrets too)

That's why they'd want it, so it can never get out.

But don't just get stuck on the laptop, I did say "other things he had on the deep state"

It certainly wasn't nuclear secrets, unless you think the media tells you the truth?

They didn't deny it's existence if I remember correctly, it had been passed around so many people that it became unusable, and no one has still managed to explain what crimes were on it, other that the drug use which he is currently beeing prosecuted for.

Wasn't giulliani raided for crimes of election fraud? Pretty sure he was, but cba to look it up.

The actual deep state in the US is geared towards interfering in other countries, not their own. Law enforcement always skews massively right amd you believe they were all trying to bring down Trump?

remember what i said in my Lineker reply to you about working class people on the sides of billionaires?

[Alf]

They didn't deny it's existence if I remember correctly, it had been passed around so many people that it became unusable, and no one has still managed to explain what crimes were on it, other that the drug use which he is currently beeing prosecuted for.

Wasn't giulliani raided for crimes of election fraud? Pretty sure he was, but cba to look it up.

The actual deep state in the US is geared towards interfering in other countries, not their own. Law enforcement always skews massively right amd you believe they were all trying to bring down Trump?

remember what i said in my Lineker reply to you about working class people on the sides of billionaires?Billionaires provide work for working class people to earn a living. Trumps done that for years. When he was President he put money in working class people's pockets. Less tax, cheaper gas, cheaper food, no wars to pay for. Then they stole the election from him and now the World has gone to sh1t.

[The Slim Reaper]

Billionaires provide work for working class people. Trumps done that for years. When he was President it put money in working class people's pockets. Less tax, cheaper gas, cheaper food, no wars to pay for. Then they stole the election from him and now the World has gone to sh1t.

You don't believe that. He increased the debt by over a trillion (I'm not a debt hawk) for a tax cut that overwhelmingly favoured billionaires (or folks who play billionaires on TV), Incidentally, republicans are now using the fact the debt is so high to try and kill all of the programs that benefit working class and poor people, such as social security, medicare, medicaid, veterans benefits, and on and on.

Gas prices have never had anything to do with who sits in the oval office.

Why aren't you fighting your own government rather that playing out the grievances of a man who wouldn't spit on you if you were on fire?

if you keep thinking trickle down will work, then there is a 40 year long experiment in the US and UK to prove that it doesn't.

[Alf]

You don't believe that. He increased the debt by over a trillion (I'm not a debt hawk) for a tax cut that overwhelmingly favoured billionaires (or folks who play billionaires on TV), Incidentally, republicans are now using the fact the debt is so high to try and kill all of the programs that benefit working class and poor people, such as social security, medicare, medicaid, veterans benefits, and on and on.

Gas prices have never had anything to do with who sits in the oval office.

Why aren't you fighting your own government rather that playing out the grievances of a man who wouldn't spit on you if you were on fire?

if you keep thinking trickle down will work, then there is a 40 year long experiment in the US and UK to prove that it doesn't.I was against my Government for the entirity of Covid and still am. I'm against my government on the illegal migration that they've overseen. I don't see you joining me in those issues. They're issues that the people could fight together. And I didn't even mention there, that this or the past few Governments constant attempts to scupper Brexit, which the people voted for.

[Alf]

1635811473946562561

[The Slim Reaper]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Frf8SM5WIAIyiQ1?format=jpg&name=small

[bots]

so is he going to be arrested on tuesday?

[The Slim Reaper]

He certainly believes so.

[Liam-]

Cornered rats and all that

[The Slim Reaper]

Nice to know he now accepts he lost the election - former president

[Tom4784]

Apparently all the messages has only led to a 13% decrease in belief that the election was stolen. Idiots are easily brainwashed to believe a lie even when there's proof to the contrary in front of their faces.

[bots]

they will arrest him monday or Wednesday now, certainly not tuesday :laugh:

[Crimson Dynamo]

https://twitter.com/DonaldJTrumpJr/status/1637088291248918532?s=20

[bots]

the big difference is that the majority of the population are not career criminals

[arista]

https://twitter.com/DonaldJTrumpJr/status/1637088291248918532?s=20


Yes, he wants a Crowd in NYC.

[letmein]

The Kremlin airs Tucker non-stop in Russia.

https://amp.theguardian.com/media/2022/mar/14/kremlin-memos-russian-media-tucker-carlson-fox-news-mother-jones

[letmein]

Worse than 9/11



HmsbTNuxk1w






I give you exhibit A. Biden's press Secretary, speaking on behalf of Brandon.


1633590394792599552


Cp0qGzR1H_E

[Alf]

After the Reichstag fire on February 27, 1933, Hitler ordered the arrest of anyone with ties to the Communist Party.


After The Capital insurrection on January 6, 2021, Biden ordered the arrest of anyone with ties to the MAGA movement.


Will Gary Lineker call out the similarities?

[Alf]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Frf8SM5WIAIyiQ1?format=jpg&name=smallI guess that will make Trump America's Nelson Mandela.

[Tom4784]

I love watching that grotesque pig spiral.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I love watching that grotesque pig spiral.

he was the most powerful man in the world. your guy could not even get close to beating Boris Johnson

f me

:laugh2:

[user104658]

"First, they came for our corrupt billionaires - and I said said nothing... as I was not a corrupt billionaire."

[arista]

The Online Paper:

https://liveblog.digitalimages.sky/lc-images-sky/lcimg-dee77388-427d-4703-a52c-ff2e91f8ec1b.png

[Mystic Mock]

Apparently all the messages has only led to a 13% decrease in belief that the election was stolen. Idiots are easily brainwashed to believe a lie even when there's proof to the contrary in front of their faces.

Unfortunately with Trump he has crafted a cult around him who see him as a God-like figure, rather than supporters who respect him as a Politician but that's really it.

Obviously not all Trump supporters will fit my generalization, but I would say that a bulk of his supporters fit my generalization.

[arista]

they will arrest him monday or Wednesday now, certainly not tuesday :laugh:



CNN HD Inside Politics Live USA Feed on UK TV

Stated there is no Arrest schedule
for this week.

Was this all Trump getting Support
for any later future event?

[Oliver_W]

He's basically the face of Fox News / MAGA culture / champion of Trump supporting hicks across America... totally "team Trump" when on the air. This basically shows that he (and Fox News in general) is utterly full of **** and just appealing to what's popular with their viewers.

Not a surprise to most people.

In short; it's like Piers Morgan getting his WhatsApp leaked, and it being full of texts saying "Can't ****ing stand the Monarchy, thank god the Queen is dead now and that might be the end of them in a few years."

Or an email from Nigel Farage saying "Brexit probably wasn't a very good idea after all!"
On the one hand, I think a lot of actual conservatives and "proper" Republicans dislike Trump, because he doesn't seem to believe a word he says he says, he's not a real Republican.

Buuuut, it sounds like Carlson was a "Trump Supporter" rather than a Republican ... ?

[Tom4784]

he was the most powerful man in the world. your guy could not even get close to beating Boris Johnson

f me

:laugh2:

Imagine jumping to the defense of Donald Trump, just tell everyone you have no self respect and be done with it.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Imagine jumping to the defense of Donald Trump, just tell everyone you have no self respect and be done with it.

Ok i just imagined it

what now?

:spin:

[Tom4784]

Ok i just imagined it

what now?

:spin:

This is the part where you admit you don't have self-respect because you hero worship a known charlatan knowing who he is, just because you think he props up and validates your stupidity.

Dignity to a right winger is as foreign a concept as intelligence to them.

[Crimson Dynamo]

This is the part where you admit you don't have self-respect because you hero worship a known charlatan knowing who he is, just because you think he props up and validates your stupidity.

Dignity to a right winger is as foreign a concept as intelligence to them.

dont forget reading comprehension

[Oliver_W]

dont forget reading comprehension
You're also frothing at the mouth, throwing your toys out the pram, and hypnotised by Murdoch.

[Tom4784]

dont forget reading comprehension

You are ultimately incapable of thinking for yourself. Everything you say and believe in comes from youtube grifters profiting off your clicks because it's easy to get you to believe anything just as long as it makes you feel validated. You exist just to spout off lines from people who ultimately don't believe it but will make money from you regardless. It's sad that you're a middle aged man with no sense of self, no beliefs that you haven't been told to believe in, no opinions that don't belong to someone else. You're just empty, aren't you?

You're also frothing at the mouth, throwing your toys out the pram, and hypnotised by Murdoch.

You're just another Darren Grimes, another Dan Wootton. A pet gay for the right wing to make them feel better for themselves only to be discarded when they ultimately have no use for you anymore. You're a lamb cosying up to a pack of wolves.

[Crimson Dynamo]

You are ultimately incapable of thinking for yourself. Everything you say and believe in comes from youtube grifters profiting off your clicks because it's easy to get you to believe anything just as long as it makes you feel validated. You exist just to spout off lines from people who ultimately don't believe it but will make money from you regardless. It's sad that you're a middle aged man with no sense of self, no beliefs that you haven't been told to believe in, no opinions that don't belong to someone else. You're just empty, aren't you?



I dont think you can call billionaire Andrew Tate a grifter, he has 10 supercars and 3 girlfriends

And NIgel has a lovely house in Kent

so that has back fired for you

:smug:

[Oliver_W]

You're just another Darren Grimes, another Dan Wootton. A pet gay for the right wing to make them feel better for themselves only to be discarded when they ultimately have no use for you anymore. You're a lamb cosying up to a pack of wolves.

Nope. I'm not right wing. I'm not left wing either, even calling myself "centrist" would be too much conviction :laugh:

But I'm not cosying up to anyone.

[user104658]

I dont think you can call billionaire Andrew Tate a grifter, he has 10 supercars and 3 girlfriends

He's not a billionaire and I doubt he's ever had a genuine girlfriend who wasn't with him for the supercars... and he made what money he does have (certainly not billions :joker: ) from pimping and pyramid schemes so ... yes he is a grifter. A very successful one (up until he got busted), granted, but a grifter nonetheless.

[Nicky91]

Ok i just imagined it

what now?

:spin:

:clap1: :clap1:

[Tom4784]

I dont think you can call billionaire Andrew Tate a grifter, he has 10 supercars and 3 girlfriends

And NIgel has a lovely house in Kent

so that has back fired for you

:smug:

Andrew Tate's not a billionaire, nowhere near, and Nigel's the biggest grifter of them all, again, not a billionaire.

It's embarrassing how you're gargling on their ballsacks, and for what? You'll never have what they have... Well, not that the sex trafficker has much now, but still. It's weird how you're bigging up a sex trafficker though, your kind are usually all about making out that LGBT folks are groomers and abusers and you're gassing up an actual sex trafficker. Bit weird, that.

Blowing the rich will not make you rich, you can deepthroat (not that you'll have to with many of these people, SDE all around) every milquetoast right wing grifter around, you're just being a sad little drone throwing money at someone who sees you as an easy mark.


Nope. I'm not right wing. I'm not left wing either, even calling myself "centrist" would be too much conviction :laugh:

But I'm not cosying up to anyone.

I've known so many people like you, and it's always the same, you act above it all like you aren't part of any side but in truth, you'll always take a specific side, you will always support the right wing while pretending you aren't. You're pretending you aren't one side of the other because you think it makes you look wise and smart, but it just shows a lack of awareness on your part, a lack of awareness that everyone can see.

[Crimson Dynamo]

He's not a billionaire and I doubt he's ever had a genuine girlfriend who wasn't with him for the supercars... and he made what money he does have (certainly not billions :joker: ) from pimping and pyramid schemes so ... yes he is a grifter. A very successful one (up until he got busted), granted, but a grifter nonetheless.

https://media1.giphy.com/media/HWF20s0ZQ7gq7YJCIZ/giphy.gif

[Oliver_W]

I've known so many people like you, and it's always the same, you act above it all like you aren't part of any side but in truth, you'll always take a specific side, you will always support the right wing while pretending you aren't. You're pretending you aren't one side of the other because you think it makes you look wise and smart, but it just shows a lack of awareness on your part, a lack of awareness that everyone can see.
I'm not the one who constantly presumes to know what others are thinking.

I don't act like or think I'm anything, thanks. Making fun of the way you continuously use stock phrases isn't siding with the left or right.

If anything my posts have skewed to the left.

[Tom4784]

I'm not the one who constantly presumes to know what others are thinking.

I don't act like or think I'm anything, thanks. Making fun of the way you continuously use stock phrases isn't siding with the left or right.

If anything my posts have skewed to the left.

I'm not presuming what you are thinking, I've just known enough people like you to know how you tick and I've rarely been proven wrong yet in that regard. There's no such thing as actual centrism or not choosing one side or the other because to not choose is to accept the current status quo, which puts you on one side, it's just you don't want to admit it.

I'm not using stock phrases, I'm just pointing out truths that you dislike because ultimately it goes against your true alignment. Pointing out how much this country loves being pissed on by Rupert Murdoch is just a pathetic truth of the people, not a stock phrase.

Saying you skew to the left doesn't mean much if you always stand with the right.

[Oliver_W]

Saying you skew to the left doesn't mean much if you always stand with the right.
I don't though.

[Crimson Dynamo]

https://twitter.com/edwardrussl/status/1637330851330670592?s=20

[user104658]

I'm not presuming what you are thinking, I've just known enough people like you to know how you tick and I've rarely been proven wrong yet in that regard. There's no such thing as actual centrism or not choosing one side or the other because to not choose is to accept the current status quo, which puts you on one side, it's just you don't want to admit it.

I'm not using stock phrases, I'm just pointing out truths that you dislike because ultimately it goes against your true alignment. Pointing out how much this country loves being pissed on by Rupert Murdoch is just a pathetic truth of the people, not a stock phrase.

Saying you skew to the left doesn't mean much if you always stand with the right.

I think this is a misunderstanding of avoiding political polarity though - it's not about walking a central tightrope on every issue it's about trying to look at each issue individually rather than where the "expected position" falls on the tribal political spectrum.

You've said the same about me plenty of times (secretly aligning with the right and trying to cover it) when it doesn't really flesh out in practice - I quite openly and clearly lean towards the "standard folks on the left" position on pretty much every topic other than gender ideology/identity politics. My stance on those things isn't informed by the right-leaning media whatsoever and is based mostly in the psychology and sociology of gender norms as a whole (and why they're BS). But having that stance on gender (apparently) makes me some sort of hateful right-wing shill who has been taken in by the lies and slander of the MSM ... even though my stance on basically every other social and economic topic skews slightly left. This idea that there needs to be a homogeny of opinion on every topic "or else" one is immediately lumped into the opposing group is just daft. Case in point really; there are, conversely, DEFINITELY some on this forum who have me categorised as a hand-wringing soft lefty liberal.

[user104658]

https://twitter.com/edwardrussl/status/1637330851330670592?s=20

The media will report on what sells - you're the one who taught me that LT. It's not a conspiracy, it's just clicks :hee:.

Also it's a bit daft as the Chinese spy balloon was widely reported on across the MSM and the banking collapse is all over the financial press - where anyone who finds it relevant will be reading about it. It means nothing to Joe Hick in his trailer, so it's not in his newspaper.

The Airborne Toxic Event is a bit of a weird one.

[Crimson Dynamo]

The media will report on what sells - you're the one who taught me that LT. It's not a conspiracy, it's just clicks :hee:.

Also it's a bit daft as the Chinese spy balloon was widely reported on across the MSM and the banking collapse is all over the financial press - where anyone who finds it relevant will be reading about it. It means nothing to Joe Hick in his trailer, so it's not in his newspaper.

The Airborne Toxic Event is a bit of a weird one.

i just like that pic

[Tom4784]

I think this is a misunderstanding of avoiding political polarity though - it's not about walking a central tightrope on every issue it's about trying to look at each issue individually rather than where the "expected position" falls on the tribal political spectrum.

You've said the same about me plenty of times (secretly aligning with the right and trying to cover it) when it doesn't really flesh out in practice - I quite openly and clearly lean towards the "standard folks on the left" position on pretty much every topic other than gender ideology/identity politics. My stance on those things isn't informed by the right-leaning media whatsoever and is based mostly in the psychology and sociology of gender norms as a whole (and why they're BS). But having that stance on gender (apparently) makes me some sort of hateful right-wing shill who has been taken in by the lies and slander of the MSM ... even though my stance on basically every other social and economic topic skews slightly left. This idea that there needs to be a homogeny of opinion on every topic "or else" one is immediately lumped into the opposing group is just daft. Case in point really; there are, conversely, DEFINITELY some on this forum who have me categorised as a hand-wringing soft lefty liberal.

Well, that's a fine load of whiney bull**** with a whole lot of mental gymnastics to paint yourself as a victim and some sort of enlightened thinker when you're nothing of the sort. It's just the same kind of bull**** with all centrists really. It's all about their own self-image and making themselves look good above all else.

As I said in the past, I'd rather just skip the pageantry and get to the point where centrists drop their masks.

[Alf]

The right is the best.

Team Right for the win.

[user104658]

Well, that's a fine load of whiney bull**** with a whole lot of mental gymnastics to paint yourself as a victim and some sort of enlightened thinker when you're nothing of the sort. It's just the same kind of bull**** with all centrists really. It's all about their own self-image and making themselves look good above all else.

As I said in the past, I'd rather just skip the pageantry and get to the point where centrists drop their masks.

If the point needed proving any further, there it is :shrug:.

I could equally say that tribally-focussed culture warriors are more concerned with image -- not self image, but their image in the eyes of the collective they've chosen to align with, and so they'' (ironically, given the left's current focus on individualism) forego anything resembling original thought in favour of toeing the palatable prescribed rhetoric of their peers.

If I was "just concerned with looking good" I would slap on the blinkers and dogmatically repeat the same social justice rhetoric as everyone else instead of pointing out where I find it inaccurate and think it falls flat. I'm all for people disagreeing with that if they can do it with any sort of backing and not just an angry screech. It highlights the glaring lack of any real viable counter-point. "I know why you're wrong but I can't be bothered to evidence that, bigot!". You'd paint yourself as part of the solution with that stance ... or maybe not, maybe just go with the "Pfft, I am too jaded to concern myself with thoughts of solutions, I'm happy just making the bigots uncomfortable :smug: " ... and then accuse OTHERS of self-aggrandising pageantry for trying to have an actual discussion? Really an unfathomable lack of self awareness.

[Beso]

Yes, right wing is the way forward.

The left are tied up with meaningless hogwash in their attempts at using the lgbt for their own gains.

Once its over they will stop cosying up to the nazi lgbt lot.

[user104658]

Yes, right wing is the way forward.

The left are tied up with meaningless hogwash in their attempts at using the lgbt for their own gains.

Once its over they will stop cosying up to the nazi lgbt lot.

Hard-right thinking has proven to be as unworkable in the real world as hard-left, the only reasonable and rational answers are robust socialist policies supporting strong consumer-driven economies (for the economics side) and rational discourse and compromise (for the social side) but look what happens when people try to make a call for those things :joker:. "Uhh that's too sensible you're just trying to look good, you communist nazi woke bigot!"

[Tom4784]

If the point needed proving any further, there it is :shrug:.

I could equally say that tribally-focussed culture warriors are more concerned with image -- not self image, but their image in the eyes of the collective they've chosen to align with, and so they'' (ironically, given the left's current focus on individualism) forego anything resembling original thought in favour of toeing the palatable prescribed rhetoric of their peers.

If I was "just concerned with looking good" I would slap on the blinkers and dogmatically repeat the same social justice rhetoric as everyone else instead of pointing out where I find it inaccurate and think it falls flat. I'm all for people disagreeing with that if they can do it with any sort of backing and not just an angry screech. It highlights the glaring lack of any real viable counter-point. "I know why you're wrong but I can't be bothered to evidence that, bigot!". You'd paint yourself as part of the solution with that stance ... or maybe not, maybe just go with the "Pfft, I am too jaded to concern myself with thoughts of solutions, I'm happy just making the bigots uncomfortable :smug: " ... and then accuse OTHERS of self-aggrandising pageantry for trying to have an actual discussion? Really an unfathomable lack of self awareness.

More bull**** prompted by the fact you're hurt that I'm not wowed by your shallow centrism.

Trying to make out that I'm tribalistic and lack self awareness is ultimately an own goal on your part. You have to keep making out that 'both sides' are beneath you to inflate your ego when in truth you identify with one side more than the other but it's all about your self-image so you delude yourself about your views to try to seem like you're operating from a neutral perspective when you aren't.

At the end of the day, I know bull**** when I see it, and centrists reek of it, and they always have. It's all about them trying to impress people with a level of intellect that isn't there. Centrists are just people suffering with delusions of grandeur and main character syndrome.

And transphobia is bigotry, if I was to take what you wrote before about gender and changed the words to equal terms representing race, you would be seen as a racist, what makes you think that it's not bigotry to approach gender in a similar fashion? Ego, that's what.

You're also engaging in more pageantry for the right wing side by making out that any opposition to transphobia is somehow not valid and is just pageantry in itself. Because any views that oppose yours can't be valid, right? Really an unfathomable lack of self awareness.

[Alf]

I wouldn't stand for that, Toy Soldier. He's done you up like a kipper there.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Not TS getting exposed for being a closet right-winger disguised as a "centrist"

:omgno:

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/MOM_nE-k3qo/maxresdefault.jpg
The good Doctor is laughing

[user104658]

More bull**** prompted by the fact you're hurt that I'm not wowed by your shallow centrism.

Trying to make out that I'm tribalistic and lack self awareness is ultimately an own goal on your part. You have to keep making out that 'both sides' are beneath you to inflate your ego when in truth you identify with one side more than the other but it's all about your self-image so you delude yourself about your views to try to seem like you're operating from a neutral perspective when you aren't.

At the end of the day, I know bull**** when I see it, and centrists reek of it, and they always have. It's all about them trying to impress people with a level of intellect that isn't there. Centrists are just people suffering with delusions of grandeur and main character syndrome.

And transphobia is bigotry, if I was to take what you wrote before about gender and changed the words to equal terms representing race, you would be seen as a racist, what makes you think that it's not bigotry to approach gender in a similar fashion? Ego, that's what.

You're also engaging in more pageantry for the right wing side by making out that any opposition to transphobia is somehow not valid and is just pageantry in itself. Because any views that oppose yours can't be valid, right? Really an unfathomable lack of self awareness.


I just can't get ahead around you, of all people, chastising people for thinking that "any opposing views can't be valid" when you are literally the worst for that very thing on this forum and frankly one of the worst for it I've ever encountered. I take on all sorts of views on this forum; you brand anyone who doesn't hold the same views as you as either stupid, a bigot, or disingenuous. You're an aggressive zealot Dezzy and it's basically impossible for anyone to engage with in any meaningful way - and that's why no one really even tries at this point. I could try to engage with why I think race and gender are inherently different - because gender itself is a social construct, and one founded in oppression of women - but I know there's little if any point.

I don't make out that "both sides are beneath me" and I frequently take a side, I'm just willing to listen to moderate views on both. I'm not interested in dogma and extremism "on either side" because, yes, it's anti-intellectualism and a waste of everyone's time.

[Tom4784]

I just can't get ahead around you, of all people, chastising people for thinking that "any opposing views can't be valid" when you are literally the worst for that very thing on this forum and frankly one of the worst for it I've ever encountered. I take on all sorts of views on this forum; you brand anyone who doesn't hold the same views as you as either stupid, a bigot, or disingenuous. You're an aggressive zealot Dezzy and it's basically impossible for anyone to engage with in any meaningful way - and that's why no one really even tries at this point. I could try to engage with why I think race and gender are inherently different - because gender itself is a social construct, and one founded in oppression of women - but I know there's little if any point.

I don't make out that "both sides are beneath me" and I frequently take a side, I'm just willing to listen to moderate views on both. I'm not interested in dogma and extremism "on either side" because, yes, it's anti-intellectualism and a waste of everyone's time.

I've never once said your views aren't valid, I've never even said the same even to the likes of LT, whose opinions are basically whoever's videos he's watching at the time. You're confusing my opposition for me saying your views aren't valid and that's entirely on you. Kind of like how you're making out that I'm an extreme zealot for not buying into your own hype. Shall we talk about extremes, shall we?

The GCs very recently had a rally, lead by Posie Parker that saw nazis stand with them, doing nazi salutes for the cameras. To me, siding with nazis is extreme. If Nazis began to support something I believed in, I'd probably reconsider my position and truly assess if I was in the right, it's the shame the GC crowd are too extreme and radicalised to do the same.

But no, I'm the extreme one for not thinking the sun shines out your arse.

[Alf]

Who are the GCs?

Has Gemma Collins got her own political movement going?

[Crimson Dynamo]

https://www.thepinknews.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/posieparkermainimage.jpg?w=995

[user104658]

The GCs very recently had a rally, lead by Posie Parker that saw nazis stand with them, doing nazi salutes for the cameras. To me, siding with nazis is extreme. If Nazis began to support something I believed in, I'd probably reconsider my position and truly assess if I was in the right, it's the shame the GC crowd are too extreme and radicalised to do the same.

See I am perfectly aware of that and have talked about the far right and religious evangelical hijacking of women's concerns in the gender ideology landscape. I've talked about it on here. Recently.

I just don't believe that seeing and accepting that right wing opportunists using the debate to their own ends - as they will with anythibg they can - automatically means that the inverse stance must automatically be 100% correct. Because that isn't rational, or anything even approaching rational. It's reactionary.

[Alf]

"if you're 21 and not a Liberal, then you don't have a heart. If you're 40 and not a Conservative, then you don't have a brain"

I think that was Winnie who sad that.

Maybe TS is going through a transitional period?

[Cherie]

Who are the GCs?

Has Gemma Collins got her own political movement going?

Gammon control?

[Beso]

Hard-right thinking has proven to be as unworkable in the real world as hard-left, the only reasonable and rational answers are robust socialist policies supporting strong consumer-driven economies (for the economics side) and rational discourse and compromise (for the social side) but look what happens when people try to make a call for those things :joker:. "Uhh that's too sensible you're just trying to look good, you communist nazi woke bigot!"




Does that have pink hair?

[Beso]

Not TS getting exposed for being a closet right-winger disguised as a "centrist"

:omgno:

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/MOM_nE-k3qo/maxresdefault.jpg
The good Doctor is laughing



Well he did take a break from the forum because he was becoming that way.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Well he did take a break from the forum because he was becoming that way.

:joker:

[Beso]

Gammon control?

Led by nosey Posie Parker

[Oliver_W]

The GCs very recently had a rally, lead by Posie Parker that saw nazis stand with them, doing nazi salutes for the cameras. To me, siding with nazis is extreme.
Do you expect a bunch of middle-aged women to forcibly remove a bunch of violent males from a public place? Just because the "GCs" had someone glomping onto their event, doesn't mean they support one another.

[Cherie]

Do you expect a bunch of middle-aged women to forcibly remove a bunch of violent males from a public place? Just because the "GCs" had someone glomping onto their event, doesn't mean they support one another.

Because no demonstration ever has had others jumping on board to promote their own agendas....

Can you elaborate what GC stands for, I googled it but all I could get was Glasgow Coma....

[Oliver_W]

Because no demonstration ever has had others jumping on board to promote their own agendas....

Can you elaborate what GC stands for, I googled it but all I could get was Glasgow Coma....

Gender Critical, aka people (usually women) who think that gender is a social construct, and shouldn't trump biological sex when it comes to dictating sex-based rights.

[Tom4784]

Do you expect a bunch of middle-aged women to forcibly remove a bunch of violent males from a public place? Just because the "GCs" had someone glomping onto their event, doesn't mean they support one another.

Look up the event, you had GCs taking pictures with the nazis, and not all GCs are women. There's a deeply ironic photo of a male GC with their hands on a woman's throat in front of a sign that says something like 'let women speak', which doesn't apply to all women it seems....

There was also a heavy police presence so making out that the GCs were a bunch of 'helpless women' doesn't make your point stand up. Nazis showed up to support the GC agenda and the GCs didn't mind it until after the event when it went viral and it made them look bad rubbing shoulders with nazis.

Because no demonstration ever has had others jumping on board to promote their own agendas....

Again, if nazis show up in support of your beliefs, that alone should be enough to maybe reconsider your views. It's not the first time that GC and Nazi ideology has overlapped and it won't be the last.

[GoldHeart]

Because no demonstration ever has had others jumping on board to promote their own agendas....

Can you elaborate what GC stands for, I googled it but all I could get was Glasgow Coma....

I googled it aswell , But i got something called 'Google classroom' instead .

[Cherie]

Gender Critical, aka people (usually women) who think that gender is a social construct, and shouldn't trump biological sex when it comes to dictating sex-based rights.

I googled it aswell , But i got something called 'Google classroom' instead .

Cheers Oliver

[Oliver_W]

There was also a heavy police presence so making out that the GCs were a bunch of 'helpless women' doesn't make your point stand up.

I've not been following Posie as closely as you, was this while she was in America?

[Crimson Dynamo]

Gender Critical, aka people (usually women) who think that gender is a social construct, and shouldn't trump biological sex when it comes to dictating sex-based rights.

so, adults in other words

[user104658]

Posie Parker has distinct Nazi vibes and happily flirts with the far-right, there's really no denying that. She's a liability.

Any mob gathering demonstration is going to be hijacked by extremists though - that's an inevitability... the double standard is rather interesting though... I vividly remember that when the BLM marches and demonstrations were used as a cover for mindless violence and looting, there was a clear understanding that those people were not a genuine part of the original demonstration, and were there for their own ends and thus it shouldn't take away from the genuine message of real BLM protesters. When "M.A.P" paedophiles corrupt and use the language of LGBT oppression to attempt to legitimise themselves, we must all understand that they are a fringe extreme and that most people don't agree with those abhorrent views. I agree with ALL of this, by the way.

And yet when the Nazis turn up to piggyback on women's genuine concerns, "everyone should reconsider what they're supporting"? No everyone should be aware of and call out the extremists who want to disingenuously hijack a movement for their own purposes.

There is literally no difference between saying "If nazis show up in support of your beliefs, that alone should be enough to maybe reconsider your views" and "If paedophiles show up in support of your beliefs, that alone should be enough to maybe reconsider your views". Which many people do - completely wrongly.

So no.

We should just accept that the Nazis and Paedophiles are opportunistic vultures and not representative.

I'm DEEPLY concerned about the way these things are being leveraged by the far right and the evangelists to pull more people over into their thinking. To the extent that at this point I genuinely think it's the larger concern (because as we know, those people do NOT actually give a stuff about the rights of women or children, and those will be out the window as soon as they've served their purpose).

To put it in simple terms; despite being accused of "my real feelings being clear" as to which side I come down on, take a look at the current SNP situation. I'm worried about who the future leader of scotland will be. I think we have terrible choices. But I would take Humza Yousaf (fully on board the identity politics train) over Kate Forbes (thinly-veiled evangelist nutjob) ANY day of the week.

I just wish there was a better set of options.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Posie Parker has distinct Nazi vibes and happily flirts with the far-right, there's really no denying that. She's a liability.

Any mob gathering demonstration is going to be hijacked by extremists though - that's an inevitability... the double standard is rather interesting though... I vividly remember that when the BLM marches and demonstrations were used as a cover for mindless violence and looting, there was a clear understanding that those people were not a genuine part of the original demonstration, and were there for their own ends and thus it shouldn't take away from the genuine message of real BLM protesters. When "M.A.P" paedophiles corrupt and use the language of LGBT oppression to attempt to legitimise themselves, we must all understand that they are a fringe extreme and that most people don't agree with those abhorrent views. I agree with ALL of this, by the way.

And yet when the Nazis turn up to piggyback on women's genuine concerns, "everyone should reconsider what they're supporting"? No everyone should be aware of and call out the extremists who want to disingenuously hijack a movement for their own purposes.

There is literally no difference between saying "If nazis show up in support of your beliefs, that alone should be enough to maybe reconsider your views" and "If paedophiles show up in support of your beliefs, that alone should be enough to maybe reconsider your views". Which many people do - completely wrongly.

So no.

We should just accept that the Nazis and Paedophiles are opportunistic vultures and not representative.

I'm DEEPLY concerned about the way these things are being leveraged by the far right and the evangelists to pull more people over into their thinking. To the extent that at this point I genuinely think it's the larger concern (because as we know, those people do NOT actually give a stuff about the rights of women or children, and those will be out the window as soon as they've served their purpose).

To put it in simple terms; despite being accused of "my real feelings being clear" as to which side I come down on, take a look at the current SNP situation. I'm worried about who the future leader of scotland will be. I think we have terrible choices. But I would take Humza Yousaf (fully on board the identity politics train) over Kate Forbes (thinly-veiled evangelist nutjob) ANY day of the week.

I just wish there was a better set of options.

Hopefully Kate will win

https://www.newstatesman.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2023/02/GettyImages-1206551640.jpg

[Oliver_W]

Posie Parker has distinct Nazi vibes and happily flirts with the far-right, there's really no denying that. She's a liability.
Yeah? I've seen an odd livestream of hers, she certainly has a certain charisma, but I don't care enough about her specifically to seek her out beyond that.

In your opinion, is she enough of a liability to counteract the positives of shining a light on the women's issue?

[user104658]

In your opinion, is she enough of a liability to counteract the positives of shining a light on the women's issue?

On her own no, the overall weight of the alt-right and the bible thumpers unfortunately yes. Like I said, they'll drop women's rights like a cold bag of sick as soon as they've got what they need and flip it right back round.

[Niamh.]

On her own no, the overall weight of the alt-right and the bible thumpers unfortunately yes. Like I said, they'll drop women's rights like a cold bag of sick as soon as they've got what they need and flip it right back round.

Yeah I think so too. I know others like Julie Bindel have their issues with Kelly Jay over her willingness to "get into bed" with the right as well. Personally my favourite person to listen to speak on these issues is Helen Joyce.

[Oliver_W]

I guess it's the difference between pro-woman and anti-trans. There might be some intersection, but that doesn't mean they agree on everything.

[Crimson Dynamo]

the news media like to frame any woman who speaks up for womens rights as "anti-trans"

[Tom4784]

Posie Parker has distinct Nazi vibes and happily flirts with the far-right, there's really no denying that. She's a liability.

Any mob gathering demonstration is going to be hijacked by extremists though - that's an inevitability... the double standard is rather interesting though... I vividly remember that when the BLM marches and demonstrations were used as a cover for mindless violence and looting, there was a clear understanding that those people were not a genuine part of the original demonstration, and were there for their own ends and thus it shouldn't take away from the genuine message of real BLM protesters. When "M.A.P" paedophiles corrupt and use the language of LGBT oppression to attempt to legitimise themselves, we must all understand that they are a fringe extreme and that most people don't agree with those abhorrent views. I agree with ALL of this, by the way.

And yet when the Nazis turn up to piggyback on women's genuine concerns, "everyone should reconsider what they're supporting"? No everyone should be aware of and call out the extremists who want to disingenuously hijack a movement for their own purposes.

There is literally no difference between saying "If nazis show up in support of your beliefs, that alone should be enough to maybe reconsider your views" and "If paedophiles show up in support of your beliefs, that alone should be enough to maybe reconsider your views". Which many people do - completely wrongly.

So no.

We should just accept that the Nazis and Paedophiles are opportunistic vultures and not representative.

I'm DEEPLY concerned about the way these things are being leveraged by the far right and the evangelists to pull more people over into their thinking. To the extent that at this point I genuinely think it's the larger concern (because as we know, those people do NOT actually give a stuff about the rights of women or children, and those will be out the window as soon as they've served their purpose).

To put it in simple terms; despite being accused of "my real feelings being clear" as to which side I come down on, take a look at the current SNP situation. I'm worried about who the future leader of scotland will be. I think we have terrible choices. But I would take Humza Yousaf (fully on board the identity politics train) over Kate Forbes (thinly-veiled evangelist nutjob) ANY day of the week.

I just wish there was a better set of options.

I think that's a bit of a copout saying that events can be hijacked since all it does is absolve these GCs of their connections to nazis. The GCs at that event didn't mind them being there. It's not like when, using your example, when peadophiles try to hijack pride events and they get thrown out and reported immediately. The GCs welcomed the support of the nazis until they realised it made them look bad after the fact, LGBT people will throw out and beat the **** out of any peadophile that tries to attach their noncery to the rainbow flag.

Your attempt at the BLM comparison fails for the same reason, BLM supporters did not stand with the looters. You've named two instances of an extreme group trying to hijack an event or protest to protect the instance of which the extreme element was welcomed with open arms until the GCs realised later that they looked bad for doing so.

And yes, considering you made out I have no self awareness, I do look at the people who agree with me when deciding if I'm on the right path or not. GCs and the far right are deeply tangled at this point, pretty much all the main voices of the GC movement are just puppets for the far right, Posie Parker, Julie Bindel, JK Rowling, etc. If I went to an event where nazis were standing beside me and were welcomed with open arms, I would rapidly consider my beliefs and the company I keep.

[Tom4784]

I guess it's the difference between pro-woman and anti-trans. There might be some intersection, but that doesn't mean they agree on everything.

Most of them are simply anti-trans, and they use women as a shield for their hate.

There's a reason why most of these 'defenders' of women are often oddly silent when the right wing acts out against women. They don't want to bite the hand that feeds them.

[user104658]

Pretty much all the main voices of the GC movement are just puppets for the far right, Posie Parker, Julie Bindel, JK Rowling, etc. If I went to an event where nazis were standing beside me and were welcomed with open arms, I would rapidly consider my beliefs and the company I keep.

I mean putting Julie Bindel in the same category as Posie Parker is a bit of a stretch, she's a Radical Feminist who advocates for women who have murdered their abusive male partners... the alt right would never align with such "misandry". JK Rowling I genuinely believe started with good intentions and was led down a path of tribalism with the back-and-forth, the rest (the idea that she secretly always had nefarious intent) is a very flimsy retcon.

ANyway - this sort of falls into the same logic as people on the right who term Antifa a "group or movement" though - that all people who are against fascism are part of some tangible group called "Antifa" and "Antifa" does bad things.

The comparison here would be, that you seem to think that anyone who has ideas and opinions about gender, or thoughts and concerns about women and children's safeguarding, are part of a tangible "GC movement" that has shared goals and some sort of leadership structure, which is obviously not the case.

What percentage of people with views on gender that fall outside of what's considered "right and good" are attending events of any kind, let alone events alongside alt-right mouthpieces? People do speak out against those that are hijacking, people do distance themselves from that by not going to these events.

There are plenty of people - myself included - who want measured progress for all with safeguarding and respectful consent forefront of the research and discussions. Whether you believe that or not isn't really all that relevant, you've made it abundantly clear that you don't and that you believe that everyone with concerns is secretly harbouring a heart full of hatred against a certain demographic for ... no apparent reason whatsoever ... but it's not the case and reality doesn't form itself around your opinions or anyone else's. Yes there are bigots - massive ones like Posie Parker and many of the other YouTube drones - smaller scale ones plenty of whom I've seen on this forum - but it's not "It's all good no debate or you're a bigot". It's such black and white thinking, it bears no resemblance at all to how any real society works.

[user104658]

Most of them are simply anti-trans, and they use women as a shield for their hate.

The big names on youtube (a lot of them men) yes, the vast majority of people who are not "in the public eye" and have concerns about women's rights, women's spaces and child safeguarding ... this is simply flat-out false. Even if you believe they're wrong about their concerns, it's not true to say that they're "pretending to have them" and using it a shield for random, directionless "hate". It's fairytale "good-and-evil" thinking with no rational foundation.

[Niamh.]

I mean putting Julie Bindel in the same category as Posie Parker is a bit of a stretch, she's a Radical Feminist who advocates for women who have murdered their abusive male partners... the alt right would never align with such "misandry". JK Rowling I genuinely believe started with good intentions and was led down a path of tribalism with the back-and-forth, the rest (the idea that she secretly always had nefarious intent) is a very flimsy retcon.

ANyway - this sort of falls into the same logic as people on the right who term Antifa a "group or movement" though - that all people who are against fascism are part of some tangible group called "Antifa" and "Antifa" does bad things.

The comparison here would be, that you seem to think that anyone who has ideas and opinions about gender, or thoughts and concerns about women and children's safeguarding, are part of a tangible "GC movement" that has shared goals and some sort of leadership structure, which is obviously not the case.

What percentage of people with views on gender that fall outside of what's considered "right and good" are attending events of any kind, let alone events alongside alt-right mouthpieces? People do speak out against those that are hijacking, people do distance themselves from that by not going to these events.

There are plenty of people - myself included - who want measured progress for all with safeguarding and respectful consent forefront of the research and discussions. Whether you believe that or not isn't really all that relevant, you've made it abundantly clear that you don't and that you believe that everyone with concerns is secretly harbouring a heart full of hatred against a certain demographic for ... no apparent reason whatsoever ... but it's not the case and reality doesn't form itself around your opinions or anyone else's. Yes there are bigots - massive ones like Posie Parker and many of the other YouTube drones - smaller scale ones plenty of whom I've seen on this forum - but it's not "It's all good no debate or you're a bigot". It's such black and white thinking, it bears no resemblance at all to how any real society works.

Julie Bindel has specifically spoken out about Posie and aligning too closely with the right. Her and Helen Joyce even had a debate about it (I've posted it below)

Ctcm4cS6NvA

[Tom4784]

I mean putting Julie Bindel in the same category as Posie Parker is a bit of a stretch, she's a Radical Feminist who advocates for women who have murdered their abusive male partners... the alt right would never align with such "misandry". JK Rowling I genuinely believe started with good intentions and was led down a path of tribalism with the back-and-forth, the rest (the idea that she secretly always had nefarious intent) is a very flimsy retcon.

ANyway - this sort of falls into the same logic as people on the right who term Antifa a "group or movement" though - that all people who are against fascism are part of some tangible group called "Antifa" and "Antifa" does bad things.

The comparison here would be, that you seem to think that anyone who has ideas and opinions about gender, or thoughts and concerns about women and children's safeguarding, are part of a tangible "GC movement" that has shared goals and some sort of leadership structure, which is obviously not the case.

What percentage of people with views on gender that fall outside of what's considered "right and good" are attending events of any kind, let alone events alongside alt-right mouthpieces? People do speak out against those that are hijacking, people do distance themselves from that by not going to these events.

There are plenty of people - myself included - who want measured progress for all with safeguarding and respectful consent forefront of the research and discussions. Whether you believe that or not isn't really all that relevant, you've made it abundantly clear that you don't and that you believe that everyone with concerns is secretly harbouring a heart full of hatred against a certain demographic for ... no apparent reason whatsoever ... but it's not the case and reality doesn't form itself around your opinions or anyone else's. Yes there are bigots - massive ones like Posie Parker and many of the other YouTube drones - smaller scale ones plenty of whom I've seen on this forum - but it's not "It's all good no debate or you're a bigot". It's such black and white thinking, it bears no resemblance at all to how any real society works.

On reflection, JK Rowling was always a dickhead. The only east asian character in the book just happens to be called Cho Chang? And plenty of jewish commentators and voices have pointed out that the goblins are basically riddled with anti-semite tropes. I think she just hid it well when she was pretty much universally beloved and spiralled when her mask slipped a bit. The only credit I'll give her is that she was likely more radicalised by the company she keeps, that doesn't excuse her being a dickhead though.

The antifa example is as misguided and foolish as your attempt to make out that Posie Parker welcoming nazis to her protests is no different to LGBT throwing out peadophiles from LGBT events. Centrists are so ****ing pointless.

Oh, the whole safeguarding kids bull**** that, if this was a few decades ago, you'd been spouting the same **** about gay people. A few decades from now, your views on trans people will be seen in a similar light. A trans child is not undergoing operations to transition, they aren't doing anything to themselves that can't be reversed at any time. Who exactly are you safeguarding by pouring doubt on them? It's certainly not the trans kids who will suffer for it. As for women, look at crime rates, a cisgender person is more likely to harm a trans person than the other way around. As for things like the prison debate, transwomen prisoners are not allowed with cisgendered women prisoners if they are convicted of a violent crime.

The rate of suicide of and hate crimes towards trans people is skyrocketing all the time, and there's a clear correlation between more trans people dying and more anti-trans rhetoric and hatred becoming common place. I don't really care about your concerns of safeguarding against transpeople, when it's rare that a transperson has the chance to grow old.

All your handwringing is just tiresome to behold. It serves no one but your own ego.

[Tom4784]

Julie Bindel considers bisexuality to be a 'fashion accessory' and is pretty much anti-LGBT while Helen Joyce has said that less people should transition and that trans people are a huge problem to a sane world, in her words.

The same trans people that will rarely live to see old age, due to suicide or violence against them.

The calls are coming from inside the house.

[user104658]

The antifa example is as misguided and foolish as your attempt to make out that Posie Parker welcoming nazis to her protests is no different to LGBT throwing out peadophiles from LGBT events. Centrists are so ****ing pointless.

Would you like to make an attempt at explaining why defining Antifa as an organised group is any different to defining "GC" as an organised group? It's literally identical. "You're part of the GC mob" / "You're part of that Antifa lot". Literally exactly the same thing. I assume you can see that or you'd at least have given a token argument for why it's different, other than "LOL no! Wrong! Stupid!"


Oh, the whole safeguarding kids bull**** that, if this was a few decades ago, you'd been spouting the same **** about gay people. A few decades from now, your views on trans people will be seen in a similar light. A trans child is not undergoing operations to transition, they aren't doing anything to themselves that can't be reversed at any time. Who exactly are you safeguarding by pouring doubt on them? It's certainly not the trans kids who will suffer for it.

I have no issues with kids and gender experimentation so long as gender ideology is allowed to be properly discussed rather than a dogmatic zeitgeist of one-sided opinion pushed as fact, and also so long as it's not used to brush aside the possibility of other issues for the children in question. 90+% of kids swapping gender around the age of puberty are female-to-male, many (most) don't go on to transition as adults, and many have other unrelated mental health issues that end up being completely brushed under the carpet and unaddressed which is absolutely shameful. Again, this is where it comes down to being heavily interwoven with female oppression; the reasons young girls are rejecting their female bodies are complex, tragic and rooted in patriarchy. But "who cares" about that, right? Even the very respectable, very well educated professionals who try to examine this phenomena are doxxed, harassed, bullied and have their places of employment harassed to fire them by hoards of slack-jawed terminally online 20 year olds. It's gross.

As for women, look at crime rates, a cisgender person is more likely to harm a trans person than the other way around.

Cisgendered people are more likely to harm transgender people than the other way around - perfectly true. What part of that means that cisgendered men won't abuse poorly-thought-out safeguarding changes made for trans women in order to access women's spaces with ill intent? Both things can be true and that's why it needs more thought, it's not "one or the other". I have always said that the following two statements are BOTH true of the "bathrooms debate";

- The individuals MOST at risk in any scenario, are trans women in male bathrooms (cis male perp). Being blunt, "passing" trans women are at high risk of sexual assault, "not-so-passing" trans women are at risk of violent attack. I genuinely consider male bathrooms a 100% unsafe place for a trans woman to be. I'm not debating that -- and I don't know the right answer to that issue, other than self-contained toilets becoming the norm.

- The demographic with the HIGHEST NUMBER OF PEOPLE at risk by the numbers are women. ALSO from cis male perps, NOT from trans women, but some Trans Rights Activists are seeking fundamental safeguarding changes that would allow male-presenting individuals access to women's spaces, placing women at increased risk. There's an adamant denial that this is the case, or that this is a risk, but it's BS. Of course it's a risk, of course it's a loophole, and of course there are predatory men out there who would (will, and already do) exploit it.

Like I said I have no idea what the answer is because the reverse also allows male-presenting people access to women's spaces - since trans men would still be using female change spaces - again NOT saying that I think trans men are a risk - but predatory cis males could access those spaces by simply claiming to be trans men.

I don't know the answers. I just want people (professionals) to be able to discuss the question without harassment and threats and that's currently not happening.



I don't really care about your concerns of safeguarding

That much is abundantly clear; you only care about safeguarding of one small niche of the population at all, and women/children are not relevant to that.

[user104658]

The same trans people that will rarely live to see old age, due to suicide or violence against them.

Do you have any evidence whatsoever to back up this claim? Before you insist that I "google it" .. I have, and I can't find anything that makes this an even vaguely plausible statement.

[Cherie]

Do you have any evidence whatsoever to back up this claim? Before you insist that I "google it" .. I have, and I can't find anything that makes this an even vaguely plausible statement.

The only murder that immediately springs to mind is Brianna Ghey but given the trial hasn’t taken place yet we don’ know why she was murdered

Ava White was murdered for asking someone to stop filming her so it doesn’t take much

[GoldHeart]

The only murder that immediately springs to mind is Brianna Ghey but given the trial hasn’t taken place yet we don’ know why she was murdered

Ava White was murdered for asking someone to stop filming her so it doesn’t take much

Stabbings are a regular thing, it's horrific but there isn't always a reason other than senseless violence.

Just 2 days ago another kid was stabbed in Leeds at a house party .

[Zizu]

Stabbings are a regular thing, it's horrific but there isn't always a reason other than senseless violence.

Just 2 days ago another kid was stabbed in Leeds at a house party .


What about the ‘particular’ kind of stabbing that’s prevalent between rival gang members nowadays !!

Truly horrific!

:::

Some stabbing are intended meant to kill, though; gang member sometimes go in for “bagging”, which is when they stab the victim in the rectum, so that they need a colostomy bag for the rest of their life. This is meant to be the most humiliating punishment.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[GoldHeart]

What about the ‘particular’ kind of stabbing that’s prevalent between rival gang members nowadays !!

Truly horrific!

:::

Some stabbing are intended meant to kill, though; gang member sometimes go in for “bagging”, which is when they stab the victim in the rectum, so that they need a colostomy bag for the rest of their life. This is meant to be the most humiliating punishment.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Yeah Gang stabbings is a huge problem. And it a reoccurring thing.

As for the 'particular' stabbing , that is absolutely disgusting and grim.

[GoldHeart]

Here we go again with the "JK Rowling is a Nazi" narrative .

I think it says more about you if when you see goblin bank tellers in a fantasy story,that you immediately think "antisemitic " . Absolutely ridiculous.

And JK Rowling stood up to the troll that was peddling that harmful lie , once she mentioned lawyers and him being held accountable for his accusations. He suddenly apologised publicly like a wimp with his tail between his legs:hee: .

[Tom4784]

That much is abundantly clear; you only care about safeguarding of one small niche of the population at all, and women/children are not relevant to that.

Because if it's only happening to what you consider 'a small niche' of the population then it doesn't matter, I guess. Who cares how many trans people die, just as long as you can demonise them to fuel your hysteria?

After all, if you don't think trans people need binning, then you obviously hate women and children, right?

Do you have any evidence whatsoever to back up this claim? Before you insist that I "google it" .. I have, and I can't find anything that makes this an even vaguely plausible statement.

You've already decided it's not true, and I've grown quite tired of straight people expecting me to be a prop to their character development. It's a well known thing in the community that you have few older LGBT of the first three letters and less still of the T. The aids crisis, hatecrimes, and suicide have contributed to that. Over half of trans youth today has had suicidal thoughts, and there's a large number of those people who have and will attempt suicide before the age of 20. You don't get many older transpeople because so many of them die of suicide before they have the chance to grow old. Many trans youth today won't see old age either, not that you care, given that it's just a 'small niche' of the population after all.

[Tom4784]

Here we go again with the "JK Rowling is a Nazi" narrative .

I think it says more about you if when you see goblin bank tellers in a fantasy story,that you immediately think "antisemitic " . Absolutely ridiculous.

And JK Rowling stood up to the troll that was peddling that harmful lie , once she mentioned lawyers and him being held accountable for his accusations. He suddenly apologised publicly like a wimp with his tail between his legs:hee: .

I mean, many jewish commentators have commented on the tropes present in the goblins so good luck of trying to uno reverse accuse them of anti-semitism? Good luck with that, do try it though, it'll be hilarious to see you screeching 'NO, U' to jewish people pointing out anti-semitic tropes.

Also the guy you're talking about was not a troll, he literally just pointed out things that many articles had written about JK Rowling. He did not harass or troll anyone but she silenced him through the threat of wielding her wealth like a weapon. She decided to say '**** freedom of speech' and threatened to destroy him because she's rich. She also has a history of setting her rabid, hideous fanbase on people she doesn't like, even if those people have never engaged her in anything. You are clapping like a seal for a bully that hates freedom of speech, that paints an image of who you are that is far from pretty.

[Crimson Dynamo]

"her rabid, hideous fanbase"

= normal people and not a tiny micro minority of shrieking pink-haired trans mob fascists who don't own property, pay tax and have no investment in society

lol

get a grip :joker:

[GoldHeart]

They're goblin characters in a bank in a fantasy fictional world,there was nothing offensive about them. And keep getting personal that's fine with those blinkers firmly on your head ,and cloth covering your ears.

If you think it's ok to call JK Rowling a "Nazi" just because ...... then that's on you. Loads of people have all the freedom of speech when they send her hate and all jumped on the bandwagon in their cult fashion. Clapping like a seal is exactly what all these people are doing. So you're just projecting your own behaviour there.

If this person truly believed JK Rowling was a 'nazi' then why did he immediately backpedal like a pathetic weasel. If all the evidence is there that JK Rowling is this 'horrible antisemitic person ' , then surely a threat of a lawsuit wouldn't matter to him ? . To me it showed he had nothing to back up his accusations so he scurried away like a scared little pest .

If JK Rowling is so dangerous then why has her franchise blocked her ,and trying to erase her ?. Twitter was flooded with the most vulgar comments towards her , funny how non of them were scared of her :hee:.

[Oliver_W]

I mean, many jewish commentators have commented on the tropes present in the goblins so good luck of trying to uno reverse accuse them of anti-semitism?

They're non-human creatures. There's nothing specifically "Jewish" about them at all.

[Crimson Dynamo]

" many jewish commentators have commented on the tropes present "

looking forwards to the list tomoz

[GoldHeart]

They're non-human creatures. There's nothing specifically "Jewish" about them at all.

If anything the people complaining are the ones pushing that harmful stereotype.
Why do they instantly think "Jewish people " .....when they see goblins handling money :umm2::suspect: ,it says more about them than JK Rowling .

[Oliver_W]

" many jewish commentators have commented on the tropes present "

looking forwards to the list tomoz

"Google it, I'm not here to educate you."

[Niamh.]

Also I read that Irish people should be offended by her using the name Seamus Finnigan, no idea why unless you think naming an Irish character with a common Irish name is offensive. It isn't.

[GoldHeart]

Also I read that Irish people should be offended by her using the name Seamus Finegan, no idea why unless you think naming an Irish character with a common Irish name is offensive. It isn't.

This is how stupid it's become now ,I hadn't actually heard about the Irish name wow :rolleyes: .

[Niamh.]

This is how stupid it's become now ,I hadn't actually heard about the Irish name wow :rolleyes: .Also apparently because he blows stuff up regularly when doing spells, she's doing the Irish IRA trope.... ffs [emoji28]

[GoldHeart]

Also apparently because he blows stuff up regularly when doing spells, she's doing the Irish IRA trope.... ffs [emoji28]

:umm2::facepalm: people need serious help for their minds to even go there in the first place, there's something wrong with them.

[Tom4784]

They're goblin characters in a bank in a fantasy fictional world,there was nothing offensive about them. And keep getting personal that's fine with those blinkers firmly on your head ,and cloth covering your ears.

If you think it's ok to call JK Rowling a "Nazi" just because ...... then that's on you. Loads of people have all the freedom of speech when they send her hate and all jumped on the bandwagon in their cult fashion. Clapping like a seal is exactly what all these people are doing. So you're just projecting your own behaviour there.

If this person truly believed JK Rowling was a 'nazi' then why did he immediately backpedal like a pathetic weasel. If all the evidence is there that JK Rowling is this 'horrible antisemitic person ' , then surely a threat of a lawsuit wouldn't matter to him ? . To me it showed he had nothing to back up his accusations so he scurried away like a scared little pest .

If JK Rowling is so dangerous then why has her franchise blocked her ,and trying to erase her ?. Twitter was flooded with the most vulgar comments towards her , funny how non of them were scared of her :hee:.

The only person in this topic calling her a nazi is literally you and you're huffing on your own fumes getting increasingly mad about it.

There are jewish people who take issue with how the goblins are presented. There's been a lot of discussion on it and you are losing your **** over it in a way that comes across as deranged. Would you be saying the same if her views didn't make you feel like they validated your own? I don't think you would.

Most of this post is just your typical 'no, u' projection that I've come to expect from the likes of you.

Also you have no idea what freedom of speech is and what it entails and it shows.

'WHY DID HE BACKPEDAL?!?!!'

Okay, i'm going to put this in as simple terms as possible so that even you can understand.

Guy makes a tweet criticising JK's actions. JK's feelings are hurt by being criticised and so she throws her wealth and lawyers about to force an apology for something that ultimately is no different to what many articles say about her. The guy, who I believe was a teenager, is facing financial ruin for criticising a billionaire and is made to backpedal. Clapping seals like yourself cheer on your bully in charge, making out that JK terrorising people with wealth and the law to shield herself from just criticism is a good thing.

Get some self respect.

[Tom4784]

"Google it, I'm not here to educate you."

If you want to cover your eyes and make out that something doesn't exist because you can't see it, do so. Your main character syndrome doesn't matter to anyone else but you.

[Tom4784]

:umm2::facepalm: people need serious help for their minds to even go there in the first place, there's something wrong with them.

JK Rowling must be to terfs, what Elon Musk is to incels. They're both weirdly protective over their beloved billionaires.

[Livia]

Women don't have cocks. End of discussion.

[GoldHeart]

The only person in this topic calling her a nazi is literally you and you're huffing on your own fumes getting increasingly mad about it.

There are jewish people who take issue with how the goblins are presented. There's been a lot of discussion on it and you are losing your **** over it in a way that comes across as deranged. Would you be saying the same if her views didn't make you feel like they validated your own? I don't think you would.

Most of this post is just your typical 'no, u' projection that I've come to expect from the likes of you.

Also you have no idea what freedom of speech is and what it entails and it shows.

'WHY DID HE BACKPEDAL?!?!!'

Okay, i'm going to put this in as simple terms as possible so that even you can understand.

Guy makes a tweet criticising JK's actions. JK's feelings are hurt by being criticised and so she throws her wealth and lawyers about to force an apology for something that ultimately is no different to what many articles say about her. The guy, who I believe was a teenager, is facing financial ruin for criticising a billionaire and is made to backpedal. Clapping seals like yourself cheer on your bully in charge, making out that JK terrorising people with wealth and the law to shield herself from just criticism is a good thing.

Get some self respect.

Lol You know full well the guy called her a nazi, so why are you now trying to make out i'm the one calling JK Rowling a nazi ??. I'm quoting what he said and you know that you silly sausage.

Why are people taking issue with how the goblins are presented? , what have the goblins got to do with Jewish people?. you can say they take offence till you're blue in the face. But i'm still not getting a clear answer to how fictional characters are offensive to a community of people?.It just seems like another way to cancel JK Rowling . And if anything it's just reinforcing negative stereotypes , the very same stereotypes that people are complaining about which makes no sense.

If he can't handle Rowling retaliating then maybe he shouldn't be on twitter doing what he's doing, he clearly wanted a reaction and he cried when it wasn't the reaction he expected . Maybe he should go back to the school playground and leave the adults to it , as he's clearly too childish. But i'm sure he'll cheer up when he knows he has some supporters who validate his nonsense.

"simple terms" , of course we can't all be as bright and stunning and clever as you . What would we all do on TIBB without your knowledge and bravery. Us mere peasants don't understand anything, you're perfect you have no faults and you never do anything wrong, you never make mistakes Mr saint with a halo . We must bow down and accept any name you give us from "bigot" to "terf" to "cis". You know best !. Enjoy your hill :hee: .

[Tom4784]

Lol You know full well the guy called her a nazi, so why are you now trying to make out i'm the one calling JK Rowling a nazi ??. I'm quoting what he said and you know that you silly sausage.

Why are people taking issue with how the goblins are presented? , what have the goblins got to do with Jewish people?. you can say they take offence till you're blue in the face. But i'm still not getting a clear answer to how fictional characters are offensive to a community of people?.It just seems like another way to cancel JK Rowling . And if anything it's just reinforcing negative stereotypes , the very same stereotypes that people are complaining about which makes no sense.

If he can't handle Rowling retaliating then maybe he shouldn't be on twitter doing what he's doing, he clearly wanted a reaction and he cried when it wasn't the reaction he expected . Maybe he should go back to the school playground and leave the adults to it , as he's clearly too childish. But i'm sure he'll cheer up when he knows he has some supporters who validate his nonsense.

"simple terms" , of course we can't all be as bright and stunning and clever as you . What would we all do on TIBB without your knowledge and bravery. Us mere peasants don't understand anything, you're perfect you have no faults and you never do anything wrong, you never make mistakes Mr saint with a halo . We must bow down and accept any name you give us from "bigot" to "terf" to "cis". You know best !. Enjoy your hill :hee: .

The guy criticised her and she responded by silencing him, and you cheer that on because you are easily impressed and because you don't value freedom of speech unless it benefits you. You are actively cheering on a billionaire for threatening teenagers with lasting financial ruin for criticising her. It's insane.

You are the only one making out that she's a nazi just so you can get mad about it. I brought up the fact that jewish commentators thought that the goblins were riddled with anti-semetic tropes and you went on a weird rampage about nazis. You brought it up and now you're trying to shove that down my throat although it's all your ****ing words.

The whole 'calling out stereotypes is the same as reinforcing them!' logic continues to be anything BUT logic. It's also hypocritical since you wouldn't stay silent about stereotypes if applied to you but you will act that people who point out anti-semitic stereotypes are somehow in the wrong.

Ah yes, because JK Rowling, who still earns millions, who still lives in a castle and will never have to work a day in her life again with no worries whatsoever, has been cancelled... It's so weird how her little cultish followers just cannot handle her facing any criticism at all.

I can't believe you still don't understand the issues surrounding JK Rowling using her power and privilege to silence criticism through threats of legal action. I cannot make it any more simple for you to understand than I already have. You lack the capacity and the rationality to see what the problem is.

You can spiral and screech all you want and make out that your failures are somehow my responsibility but at the end of the day you are looking ridiculous. Transphobes need counselling and therapy, I swear.

[GoldHeart]

Just as i thought you can't actually tell me why the goblins are offensive :conf:. you just keep saying the same thing over again like a broken record, ranting away frothing at the mouth without saying anything of substance.

I think i might buy Hogwarts Legacy :smug: .

I think you should buy this https://www.amazon.co.uk/Delusional-Disorder-Paranoia-Related-Illnesses/dp/0521029805/ref=asc_df_0521029805/?tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=241181689605&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=12265428761059839179&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9046356&hvtargid=pla-492227010854&psc=1&th=1&psc=1

[Oliver_W]

Just as i thought you can't actually tell me why the goblins are offensive :conf:

He won't and he can't, I doubt even he knows "why" they are.

In his mind, it's enough that he told us someone said that they were, that's all the proof we're supposed to need.

He'd never sink to actually substantiating something he said, we're all just meant to believe him, and if we don't ... "google it"

[Cherie]

Also I read that Irish people should be offended by her using the name Seamus Finnigan, no idea why unless you think naming an Irish character with a common Irish name is offensive. It isn't.

Also apparently because he blows stuff up regularly when doing spells, she's doing the Irish IRA trope.... ffs [emoji28]

:joker:

We love being told what we should be offended by usually by idiots who never go beyond their bedroom

[user104658]

Because if it's only happening to what you consider 'a small niche' of the population then it doesn't matter, I guess. Who cares how many trans people die, just as long as you can demonise them to fuel your hysteria?

After all, if you don't think trans people need binning, then you obviously hate women and children, right?

This is a massive misrepresentation of anything that's been said by anyone in this thread. There's no hysteria or even high emotion other than your own. I don't think you "hate" women and children, I just think you're largely indifferent to concerns that aren't directly related to those who you consider to be "the worst off", so you haven't actually given them a second thought.



You've already decided it's not true, and I've grown quite tired of straight people expecting me to be a prop to their character development. It's a well known thing in the community that you have few older LGBT of the first three letters and less still of the T. The aids crisis, hatecrimes, and suicide have contributed to that. Over half of trans youth today has had suicidal thoughts, and there's a large number of those people who have and will attempt suicide before the age of 20. You don't get many older transpeople because so many of them die of suicide before they have the chance to grow old. Many trans youth today won't see old age either, not that you care, given that it's just a 'small niche' of the population after all.

So "no", then. The available stats on violence against trans people and suicide don't confirm your insistence that it's "rare" for trans people to reach old age because of suicide and murder at all, because you made it up based on a supposition, and not any sort of actual statistics.

Violence against trans people is a huge problem, and suicidality in the demographic is indeed very high as well. No one is pretending it isn't a problem, or that it isn't worth addressing, but your suggestion that most trans people die early violent deaths is simply false or a massive exaggeration for effect. You didn't say these deaths are statistically high amongst trans people compared to other demographics (true), you said that it's "rare" for trans people to make it through life without being murdered or killing themselves (verifiably untrue).

Maybe if you'd focussed a little more on critical thinking, compromise and the ability to cobble together a sound argument that isn't just "getting really angry and aggressive at everyone because that'll show 'em", and a little less on "your character development"...

[user104658]

Also I read that Irish people should be offended by her using the name Seamus Finnigan, no idea why unless you think naming an Irish character with a common Irish name is offensive. It isn't.

To be honest there are some slightly "iffy" tropes in the books but here's what baffles me (well, it doesn't, it's pretty clear what's going on).

1) People who used to love and express loving Harry Potter now pretending that it was always a problem and they just "didn't notice" until they had an issue with JK rowling's position on gender. They were innocently trudling along, enjoying the wizard books, for years... never once mentioning an issue... and then JK Rowling took a stance they didn't agree with and suddenly she was always a problematic Nazi and they "knew it all along". I mean what's the answer there? Were these people being willfully ignorant before, if all of this is so clear? Or is it, perhaps, that they didn't give a toss about these issues until an issue they care about came up, and the rest is just exaggeration for leverage...

2) People pretending that they don't know that you have to take literature (and all media) in a "come as you are" form based on when it was written - in this case, the 90's and 00's - and not assess it based on current social norms of the present day ... or else you wouldn't be able to read or watch much that wasn't made in the last 5 years. They do of course know this and accept it for plenty of other entertainment ... just not from someone they have an axe to grind with. It's just hypocrisy, there are COUNTLESS authors with far more problematic back catalogues than Rowling but you won't hear a peep about them because it's not about that. It's just ammo for the gender ideology wars. Not one of them genuinely gives a stuff about "Jew coded Goblins" or that there's a character called Cho Chang :idc: ... or at least, they didn't until the last few years. The books have been around for 2 decades.

[Oliver_W]

The Cho Chang "problem" is daft to begin with, I can think of plenty of people with Surnames As First Names.

Even if it is actually "problematic" it's more the fault of the editors than a woman who wrote a character before the days where everything is googleable.

The Goblins With Gold trope is pretty old, and there's nothing in JK's interpretation which makes them Jew-coded.

[Niamh.]

To be honest there are some slightly "iffy" tropes in the books but here's what baffles me (well, it doesn't, it's pretty clear what's going on).

1) People who used to love and express loving Harry Potter now pretending that it was always a problem and they just "didn't notice" until they had an issue with JK rowling's position on gender. They were innocently trudling along, enjoying the wizard books, for years... never once mentioning an issue... and then JK Rowling took a stance they didn't agree with and suddenly she was always a problematic Nazi and they "knew it all along". I mean what's the answer there? Were these people being willfully ignorant before, if all of this is so clear? Or is it, perhaps, that they didn't give a toss about these issues until an issue they care about came up, and the rest is just exaggeration for leverage...

2) People pretending that they don't know that you have to take literature (and all media) in a "come as you are" form based on when it was written - in this case, the 90's and 00's - and not assess it based on current social norms of the present day ... or else you wouldn't be able to read or watch much that wasn't made in the last 5 years. They do of course know this and accept it for plenty of other entertainment ... just not from someone they have an axe to grind with. It's just hypocrisy, there are COUNTLESS authors with far more problematic back catalogues than Rowling but you won't hear a peep about them because it's not about that. It's just ammo for the gender ideology wars. Not one of them genuinely gives a stuff about "Jew coded Goblins" or that there's a character called Cho Chang :idc: ... or at least, they didn't until the last few years. The books have been around for 2 decades.

The Jew Goblin trope though? Do you think that was JK Rowlings plan, because she secretly hates Jews? It doesn't seem likely to me. The whole book series is full of mythical creatures, I'm pretty sure the aim with having Goblins as the bankers is because Goblins are supposed to be grumpy and greedy. Goblins existed as mythical creatures with that reputation long before nazis or whoever used them as some sort of hate propaganda against Jewish people. Are people never allowed use Goblins as characters in anything anymore now in that case?

Thing is it would never even have occurred to most people to compare them either until someone started the whole theory which seems counterproductive in stopping racism and hatred to me :shrug:

[user104658]

The Goblins With Gold trope is pretty old, and there's nothing in JK's interpretation which makes them Jew-coded.

I agree with that, there is some substance to the idea but goblins are obviously an extremely common fantasy element, you could perhaps say she's "guilty" (as with many authors... games... movies...) of lazily copying cut-and-paste fantasy creatures (goblins, giants, dragons, giant spiders... heck, wizards themselves...) from standard fantasy settings but the idea that she came up with Goblins herself or was aware of any link to Jewish people is just extremely far-fetched. Could you say she could have been more careful? I guess... but she had no idea how wide-reaching the books would be at that point, and again, you'd have to say the same thing about COUNTLESS other books, movies and games with fantasy settings.

[GoldHeart]

The Cho Chang "problem" is daft to begin with, I can think of plenty of people with Surnames As First Names.

Even if it is actually "problematic" it's more the fault of the editors than a woman who wrote a character before the days where everything is googleable.

The Goblins With Gold trope is pretty old, and there's nothing in JK's interpretation which makes them Jew-coded.

Like I said , it says more about the people causing an uproar who are associating it with a 'Jewish trope' , funny how only now there's an outrage ...yet at the time it was ok.

Same thing with Roald Dahl , now people are pointing out his illustrations and dialogue are "offensive" suddenly.

[Tom4784]

Just as i thought you can't actually tell me why the goblins are offensive :conf:. you just keep saying the same thing over again like a broken record, ranting away frothing at the mouth without saying anything of substance.

I think i might buy Hogwarts Legacy :smug: .

I think you should buy this https://www.amazon.co.uk/Delusional-Disorder-Paranoia-Related-Illnesses/dp/0521029805/ref=asc_df_0521029805/?tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=241181689605&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=12265428761059839179&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9046356&hvtargid=pla-492227010854&psc=1&th=1&psc=1

What's in it for me to prove anything to you? You're a drone that can't think for themselves and will make out that something isn't true unless someone goes out of their way to prove it to you. A zealot is a zealot, you'll believe your feelings over the facts and so why waste my time trying to convince you of anything? You aren't worth the effort, only the derision.

If you want to delude yourself into thinking that some Jewish people haven't taken issue with the goblins in HP then that's on you, your delusions don't matter to anyone but yourself. You are entitled to your own foolishness.

He won't and he can't, I doubt even he knows "why" they are.

In his mind, it's enough that he told us someone said that they were, that's all the proof we're supposed to need.

He'd never sink to actually substantiating something he said, we're all just meant to believe him, and if we don't ... "google it"

Again, whether a bunch of people covering their eyes and thinking that something they can't see see doesn't exist believes me or not is irrelevant. Your belief is not required, your input ultimately changes nothing. You are free to be as ignorant as you please.

This is a massive misrepresentation of anything that's been said by anyone in this thread. There's no hysteria or even high emotion other than your own. I don't think you "hate" women and children, I just think you're largely indifferent to concerns that aren't directly related to those who you consider to be "the worst off", so you haven't actually given them a second thought.





So "no", then. The available stats on violence against trans people and suicide don't confirm your insistence that it's "rare" for trans people to reach old age because of suicide and murder at all, because you made it up based on a supposition, and not any sort of actual statistics.

Violence against trans people is a huge problem, and suicidality in the demographic is indeed very high as well. No one is pretending it isn't a problem, or that it isn't worth addressing, but your suggestion that most trans people die early violent deaths is simply false or a massive exaggeration for effect. You didn't say these deaths are statistically high amongst trans people compared to other demographics (true), you said that it's "rare" for trans people to make it through life without being murdered or killing themselves (verifiably untrue).

Maybe if you'd focussed a little more on critical thinking, compromise and the ability to cobble together a sound argument that isn't just "getting really angry and aggressive at everyone because that'll show 'em", and a little less on "your character development"...

Just more waffle that ultimately translates into 'I love hearing the sound of my own voice'.

You know what's funny? You tried to make out that I was someone that lacked self awareness, but you in this thread have thrown out the usual excuses to prevent yourself from looking critically at your own view and who else supports it. 'B-But anyone can hijack an event!' Yet I'm the one that lacks self awareness, apparently.

'Violence against trans people and high suicide rates is an issue, but I'm immediately going to downplay both because they don't fit with my world view beyond this basic statement to cover my ass'. Trans people are a 'small niche' after all, and you've made it clear how little you think they matter. How many suicidal trans kids is okay with you, what's the benchmark number of dead children that will make you actually care? That's a rhetorical question, btw, just before you type out another 50 paragraphs of self important waffle.

Your last paragraph, I don't compromise with bigots so why are you trying to make out that I should? No rights have ever been assured or protected by compromising them. Gay rights began with a brick, and we'd have never gotten as far as we have by being asking for rights from those who would do us harm. I'm not going to go around hugging transphobes to make them feel better about themselves when violence and suicide rates against the people they hate is on the ****ing rise. You just keep pushing the narrative that LGBT people should just be accessories to make you feel better about your views, and god forbid they don't support those views. I'm not here for your ****ing benefit, you are not the ****ing main character of the world.

[GoldHeart]

"self important waffle" :joker:, some people really need to look in the mirror 🪞 , before they throw that stone around in their pretty little glass house :hee: .

You only care about the people who agree with you ,I guess the LGBTQ people who disagree with you don't matter ?. Also if love and acceptance is true...why are detransioners called 'quitters' ,and given zero compassion? . And why does the movement try and hide them / brushing their experiences under the carpet??.

The ones who acknowledge them are told to "shut up" or labelled "transphobe" ..... simply for having concerns and asking questions. As we're not allowed to do that anymore .

[user104658]

What's in it for me to prove anything to you? You're a drone that can't think for themselves and will make out that something isn't true unless someone goes out of their way to prove it to you. A zealot is a zealot, you'll believe your feelings over the facts and so why waste my time trying to convince you of anything? You aren't worth the effort, only the derision.

If you want to delude yourself into thinking that some Jewish people haven't taken issue with the goblins in HP then that's on you, your delusions don't matter to anyone but yourself. You are entitled to your own foolishness.



Again, whether a bunch of people covering their eyes and thinking that something they can't see see doesn't exist believes me or not is irrelevant. Your belief is not required, your input ultimately changes nothing. You are free to be as ignorant as you please.



Just more waffle that ultimately translates into 'I love hearing the sound of my own voice'.

You know what's funny? You tried to make out that I was someone that lacked self awareness, but you in this thread have thrown out the usual excuses to prevent yourself from looking critically at your own view and who else supports it. 'B-But anyone can hijack an event!' Yet I'm the one that lacks self awareness, apparently.

'Violence against trans people and high suicide rates is an issue, but I'm immediately going to downplay both because they don't fit with my world view beyond this basic statement to cover my ass'. Trans people are a 'small niche' after all, and you've made it clear how little you think they matter. How many suicidal trans kids is okay with you, what's the benchmark number of dead children that will make you actually care? That's a rhetorical question, btw, just before you type out another 50 paragraphs of self important waffle.

Your last paragraph, I don't compromise with bigots so why are you trying to make out that I should? No rights have ever been assured or protected by compromising them. Gay rights began with a brick, and we'd have never gotten as far as we have by being asking for rights from those who would do us harm. I'm not going to go around hugging transphobes to make them feel better about themselves when violence and suicide rates against the people they hate is on the ****ing rise. You just keep pushing the narrative that LGBT people should just be accessories to make you feel better about your views, and god forbid they don't support those views. I'm not here for your ****ing benefit, you are not the ****ing main character of the world.

You're the only one mentioning "main characters" Dezzy - and you've accused multiple people of it with very little foundation. It's quite an obvious projection at this point? You've just told me not to bother with a long reply, that it was a rhetorical question, because you aren't interested in a long answer. I've never thought you were here for my benefit - but I'm not writing any of this for your benefit either, Dezzy? So why wouldn't I reply? I genuinely don't care if you even read it; your responses to me (and everyone else) are the same every time. Overly aggressive, telling people they're self-important bigots, letting us know that you're just here to tell everyone what's what, and even suggesting that you're "making people feel bad". I don't see how you possibly could be when the responses are just a rehash of the same insults you throw around in every reply, and entirely predictable.

You do lack self-awareness. I haven't made excuses, my views on this change and progress on his topic quite a bit actually, and I've criticised the people piggybacking suppoort on the issue to for their own ends in this thread only for you to claim that I don't do it :think:. Does there have to be an element of righteous fury for you to accept it as valid?

No number of kids killing themselves is an acceptible. My daughter has trans friends. They're great kids. They all sadly have some very clear issues that have nothing to do with gender (mostly family issues). There are a number of complex mental health comorbidities that come along with and often precede questioning gender identity, that come long before and extend far beyond "people are mean about it". I strongly believe that the best way to keep people safe is to get the actual work done in understanding that. You want to oversimplify it into something basic and pretend that if everyone just stops talking about it, everyone will be happy & fine. That thinking is by far the more dangerous thinking -- luckily, experts and professionals do actually understand that. I just hope your ilk aren't successful in bullying all of those professionals out in favour of non-expert peer support. Which has its place, but not front and centre.

Hope you enjoyed my TED talk.

[user104658]

You only care about the people who agree with you ,I guess the LGBTQ people who disagree with you don't matter ?. Also if love and acceptance is true...why are detransioners called 'quitters' ,and given zero compassion? . And why does the movement try and hide them / brushing their experiences under the carpet??

Who cares about those brainwashed alt-right log cabin republican Auntie Tams GoldHeart; they're crafted entirely out of hate and bile.

[Tom4784]

"self important waffle" :joker:, some people really need to look in the mirror 🪞 , before they throw that stone around in their pretty little glass house :hee: .

You only care about the people who agree with you ,I guess the LGBTQ people who disagree with you don't matter ?. Also if love and acceptance is true...why are detransioners called 'quitters' ,and given zero compassion? . And why does the movement try and hide them / brushing their experiences under the carpet??.

The ones who acknowledge them are told to "shut up" or labelled "transphobe" ..... simply for having concerns and asking questions. As we're not allowed to do that anymore .

People who detransition aren't called quitters? Like where did you hear any of this? You're a great example of what happens when someone lacks critical thinking regarding their sources and they just believe whatever they like the sound of.

Detransitioning is rare, and you're only making out that it's 'swept' under the carpet because you ultimately want to push a false narrative that a lot of people regret transitioning when it's not the case.

The rest of your post is just inane nonsense that's not worth addressing.

[user104658]

Detransitioning is rare, and you're only making out that it's 'swept' under the carpet because you ultimately want to push a false narrative that a lot of people regret transitioning when it's not the case.

Detransitioning when actually down the transitioning path (hormones, surgery) is rare - gander swapping back to natal gender after a period of identifying as transgender in teenagers is extremely common (in fact it's most people who experiment with gender, in a period of 6 months to two years).

And yes; they are often socially rejected by their LGBTQ+ peers if they choose to "switch back" their names and pronouns. It's quite a big issue in high schools. I've literally seen it happen to two kids.

[GoldHeart]

Who cares about those brainwashed alt-right log cabin republican Auntie Tams GoldHeart; they're crafted entirely out of hate and bile.

The sad thing is regardless of political views ,both the right & left should work together when it comes to this issue. But it's sadly never going to happen.

I watched a podcast with 3 very liberal trans women , and one of them called detransioners " quitters" which I found pretty heartless and the opposite of understanding and accepting.

[GoldHeart]

People who detransition aren't called quitters? Like where did you hear any of this? You're a great example of what happens when someone lacks critical thinking regarding their sources and they just believe whatever they like the sound of.

Detransitioning is rare, and you're only making out that it's 'swept' under the carpet because you ultimately want to push a false narrative that a lot of people regret transitioning when it's not the case.

The rest of your post is just inane nonsense that's not worth addressing.

I've heard a few of the LGBTQ community reject them,and like I said I watched a podcast where a very vocal trans woman called them "quitters", she lacked any compassion for them.

[Tom4784]

You're the only one mentioning "main characters" Dezzy - and you've accused multiple people of it with very little foundation. It's quite an obvious projection at this point? You've just told me not to bother with a long reply, that it was a rhetorical question, because you aren't interested in a long answer. I've never thought you were here for my benefit - but I'm not writing any of this for your benefit either, Dezzy? So why wouldn't I reply? I genuinely don't care if you even read it; your responses to me (and everyone else) are the same every time. Overly aggressive, telling people they're self-important bigots, letting us know that you're just here to tell everyone what's what, and even suggesting that you're "making people feel bad". I don't see how you possibly could be when the responses are just a rehash of the same insults you throw around in every reply, and entirely predictable.

You do lack self-awareness. I haven't made excuses, my views on this change and progress on his topic quite a bit actually, and I've criticised the people piggybacking suppoort on the issue to for their own ends in this thread only for you to claim that I don't do it :think:. Does there have to be an element of righteous fury for you to accept it as valid?

No number of kids killing themselves is an acceptible. My daughter has trans friends. They're great kids. They all sadly have some very clear issues that have nothing to do with gender (mostly family issues). There are a number of complex mental health comorbidities that come along with and often precede questioning gender identity, that come long before and extend far beyond "people are mean about it". I strongly believe that the best way to keep people safe is to get the actual work done in understanding that. You want to oversimplify it into something basic and pretend that if everyone just stops talking about it, everyone will be happy & fine. That thinking is by far the more dangerous thinking -- luckily, experts and professionals do actually understand that. I just hope your ilk aren't successful in bullying all of those professionals out in favour of non-expert peer support. Which has its place, but not front and centre.

Hope you enjoyed my TED talk.

Ah, so you're echoing the same non-logic as Goldheart at this point that should be a red flag. 'You can't point out stereotypes without being guilty of said stereotypes!' 'You can't point out that we think you exist for our benefit without us accusing you of the same!'

You guys are the ones making out that your validation and belief is somehow integral to my views and that I have to prove them to you, yet you accuse me of projecting main character syndrome onto you? That lack of self-awareness is striking again, TS. You act like I'm projecting but when have I have I made out in this thread that you need to prove anything to me? I have the same standards for you as I do myself, but you cannot say the same without being a complete hypocrite and a liar.

Everything you say about trans basically comes down to 'Yeah, trans suicide and violence is bad, BUT' and there's a lot in that but. You're just covering your bases, nothing more.

Ah, so now I'm 'bullying professionals' although I've clearly always said that people should defer to medical advice related to transitioning even when people like you pick and choose when it comes to when medical advice is valid or not. God you're just throwing **** at a wall and hoping it sticks, aren't you?

[Niamh.]

There's a Detransition Subreddit with over 45k members, it isn't rare at all

[Tom4784]

I've heard a few of the LGBTQ community reject them,and like I said I watched a podcast where a very vocal trans woman called them "quitters", she lacked any compassion for them.

Goldheart went out of her way to find one example of something and now she thinks that's a searing indictment for trans people as a whole.

Again, do I have to bring up the Myra Hindley example again to show you how dumb that logic is? You'll find **** people of every persuasion, but holding up a podcast host as representative to all trans people is like saying that Myra Hindley is representative of women. It's a ****ing ridiculous thing to say.

[user104658]

Ah, so you're echoing the same non-logic as Goldheart at this point that should be a red flag. 'You can't point out stereotypes without being guilty of said stereotypes!' 'You can't point out that we think you exist for our benefit without us accusing you of the same!'

You guys are the ones making out that your validation and belief is somehow integral to my views and that I have to prove them to you, yet you accuse me of projecting main character syndrome onto you? That lack of self-awareness is striking again, TS. You act like I'm projecting but when have I have I made out in this thread that you need to prove anything to me? I have the same standards for you as I do myself, but you cannot say the same without being a complete hypocrite and a liar.

Everything you say about trans basically comes down to 'Yeah, trans suicide and violence is bad, BUT' and there's a lot in that but. You're just covering your bases, nothing more.

Ah, so now I'm 'bullying professionals' although I've clearly always said that people should defer to medical advice related to transitioning even when people like you pick and choose when it comes to when medical advice is valid or not. God you're just throwing **** at a wall and hoping it sticks, aren't you?

I've asked you once to back up a claim you made, because it sounded unreasonable and exaggerated, a perfectly normal part of any debate, and you couldn't... so I checked for myself... and discovered that there was no evidence whatsoever for the claim that you made. You don't need to "prove anything to me" in any grand sense Dezzy, I think I know enough :umm2:.

"Here are some facts for you. What? Back them up with anything more than my own word?? How dare you!"

[GoldHeart]

There's a Detransition Subreddit with over 45k members, it isn't rare at all

In the last few years it's actually risen ,so that doesn't surprise me at all. But sadly they get shunned by the community.

And 10 years ago the whole trans thing wasn't an issue. I truly believe social media,and a spike in self entitled people have hijacked it .

Here's an interesting video . Not sure if you've watched it

x686y1e6wwQ

[Tom4784]

There's a Detransition Subreddit with over 45k members, it isn't rare at all

The most popular reddits have over 30 million members. The main trans reddit (not counting any other more specialist reddits too) shadows that reddit in terms of numbers too.

You've also got to ask yourself some questions regarding that reddit. Has it always had that number or has it ballooned recently with efforts from the right and GCs to push detransitioning as a common thing? How many people on that reddit are trans and how many are bad actors or brigaders pushing an agenda?

Detransitioning does happen, but it's not a thing to most people and there's only a narrative that it's more common than people think because gender critical people believe that such a narrative hurts trans people.

[GoldHeart]

Goldheart went out of her way to find one example of something and now she thinks that's a searing indictment for trans people as a whole.

Again, do I have to bring up the Myra Hindley example again to show you how dumb that logic is? You'll find **** people of every persuasion, but holding up a podcast host as representative to all trans people is like saying that Myra Hindley is representative of women. It's a ****ing ridiculous thing to say.

The really sad thing is I didn't need to "go out of my way" , it's all out there in bundles . You can keep putting your fingers in your ears and ignoring it .

She wasn't the host ,she was a trans guest on the podcast . But you can pretend her opinion is invisible all you like,but she said what she said ...and it's not a one off thing . Other people in the community have said similar statements about detransioners.

[Niamh.]

The most popular reddits have over 30 million members. The main trans reddit (not counting any other more specialist reddits too) shadows that reddit in terms of numbers too.

You've also got to ask yourself some questions regarding that reddit. Has it always had that number or has it ballooned recently with efforts from the right and GCs to push detransitioning as a common thing? How many people on that reddit are trans and how many are bad actors or brigaders pushing an agenda?

Detransitioning does happen, but it's not a thing to most people and there's only a narrative that it's more common than people think because gender critical people believe that such a narrative hurts trans people.

Sure but there's not going to be 30million detransitioners when the whole trans population itself isn't massive either.

I guess we have no real way of knowing but I thought we were supposed to accept peoples identity claims at face value? or is it just the "correct" identities? There are plenty detransitioners on youtube that you can actually see and hear for yourself so are definitely genuine. A few with legal cases too

[user104658]

Has it always had that number or has it ballooned recently with efforts from the right and GCs to push detransitioning as a common thing? How many people on that reddit are trans and how many are bad actors or brigaders pushing an agenda?

So detransitioners aren't called quitters -- they're accused of being liars and alt-right agents in disguise. I'm not sure that's much better (I'm being flippant here - of course it's significantly worse).

But yes I have seen this before - people who have detransitioned being aggressively harassed and accused of being right-wing/GC patsies. Not really a safe thing to talk about openly in LGBTQ circles, is it?

[GoldHeart]

So detransitioners aren't called quitters -- they're accused of being liars and alt-right agents in disguise. I'm not sure that's much better (I'm being flippant here - of course it's significantly worse).

But yes I have seen this before - people who have detransitioned being aggressively harassed and accused of being right-wing/GC patsies. Not really a safe thing to talk about openly in LGBTQ circles, is it?

Soldier there's a literal podcast of a trans woman calling them "Quitters" it's a very long video,so not sure if you want to sit through it . I can send you the link if you want .

[Niamh.]

So detransitioners aren't called quitters -- they're accused of being liars and alt-right agents in disguise. I'm not sure that's much better (I'm being flippant here - of course it's significantly worse).

But yes I have seen this before - people who have detransitioned being aggressively harassed and accused of being right-wing/GC patsies. Not really a safe thing to talk about openly in LGBTQ circles, is it?

Did you see the amount of hate KC Miller got just for talking about the downside of taking cross sex hormones? I'm not even sure they were detransitioning and they got attacked so much just for speaking negatively about the process

[Crimson Dynamo]

if anyone was in any doubt about Keir Starmer’s determination to let
nothing stand in the way of a Labour general election
victory, they should pay attention to a little-reported comment he
made in Scotland last week. “Gender recognition will not be one of the
priorities of the incoming government”, he told an interviewer in the
context of the ongoing debate doing so much damage to the SNP
during its ongoing leadership contest

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/03/22/snp-wont-scalp-claimed-trans-ideology/

[Oliver_W]

People who detransition aren't called quitters? Like where did you hear any of this?
Google it, it's not GoldHeart's job to educate you, she's not a supporting player to your main character.

:fist:

[Cherie]

In the last few years it's actually risen ,so that doesn't surprise me at all. But sadly they get shunned by the community.

And 10 years ago the whole trans thing wasn't an issue. I truly believe social media,and a spike in self entitled people have hijacked it .

Here's an interesting video . Not sure if you've watched it

x686y1e6wwQ

Nice to hear from an actual trans person for a change, thanks for the clip GH

[GoldHeart]

Nice to hear from an actual trans person for a change, thanks for the clip GH

:wavey:
Tbh I'm surprised she was allowed the platform ....as usually we get the other side pushing stuff , I'm glad we got to hear her views aswell.

[GoldHeart]

Google it, it's not GoldHeart's job to educate you, she's not a supporting player to your main character.

:fist:

Lol

[Cherie]

:wavey:
Tbh I'm surprised she was allowed the platform ....as usually we get the other side pushing stuff , I'm glad we got to hear her views aswell.

Would shouting in an agressive way be allowed on any other topic? i think not snd as for crossing the house to sit and glare at her...he should be sectioned

[GoldHeart]

Would shouting in an agressive way be allowed on any other topic? i think not snd as for crossing the house to sit and glare at her...he should be sectioned

Exactly
I don't understand how that was allowed, he's unhinged that MP. Once again it feels like we've gone backwards....with men basically telling women 'shut up your feelings are invalid you bigot'

:umm2:

[Crimson Dynamo]

that nasty labour mp is a women hater and he has previous

typical of the trans mob mentality

[Tom4784]

The really sad thing is I didn't need to "go out of my way" , it's all out there in bundles . You can keep putting your fingers in your ears and ignoring it .

She wasn't the host ,she was a trans guest on the podcast . But you can pretend her opinion is invisible all you like,but she said what she said ...and it's not a one off thing . Other people in the community have said similar statements about detransioners.

God, I don't know how someone can be so dense to consistently miss the ****ing point.

You are picking and choosing extreme examples to paint a false image of the trans community as a whole. You can pick all the cherry picked examples you want, you'll still be painting in broad strokes about trans people to suit your own agenda.

Again, imagine if I did that to you. Imagine if I made out that you were a threat to children based on something like your gender alone, because after all, I could probably pull up a lot of stories about women abusing and/or killing children. You would rightfully lose your **** over it, yet you've made out that trans people are a threat to women in the past using the same kind of examples and you're cherrypicking examples to put out a false narrative that detransitioning is more common than it actually is, not to help transpeople, but to eradicate them.

[Tom4784]

Detransitioning when actually down the transitioning path (hormones, surgery) is rare - gander swapping back to natal gender after a period of identifying as transgender in teenagers is extremely common (in fact it's most people who experiment with gender, in a period of 6 months to two years).

And yes; they are often socially rejected by their LGBTQ+ peers if they choose to "switch back" their names and pronouns. It's quite a big issue in high schools. I've literally seen it happen to two kids.

You are quite literally mansplaining the LGBT community to a member of said community. Cringeworthy. The funny thing is you speak so confidently yet you clearly don't know anything besides the same cherry picked **** that Goldheart goes for.

Please do this to an LGBT person in real life and be sure to record it, I want to see them glance to other LGBT people in the vicinity with that 'here we go again...' look and see whether they straight up laugh in your face or patronise you by letting you dig that hole further and further. Honestly, it could be an Alan Partridge sketch.

[GoldHeart]

wp43OdtAAkM

[Tom4784]

I've asked you once to back up a claim you made, because it sounded unreasonable and exaggerated, a perfectly normal part of any debate, and you couldn't... so I checked for myself... and discovered that there was no evidence whatsoever for the claim that you made. You don't need to "prove anything to me" in any grand sense Dezzy, I think I know enough :umm2:.

"Here are some facts for you. What? Back them up with anything more than my own word?? How dare you!"

Your belief is not required, I know this is probably hard for someone like you that has to impress your shallow intelligence on people at every opportunity (unsuccessfully), but no one has to perform for you either.

You are not as important to others as you think you are. People don't have to validate their opinions to you, and it's about time that insanely undeserved ego of yours comes to grips with that.

Also you're probably pretty **** at googling, if you actually googled it at all which I doubt.

[Tom4784]

wp43OdtAAkM

Is that meant to mean something, cisgendered person?

[Tom4784]

In the last few years it's actually risen ,so that doesn't surprise me at all. But sadly they get shunned by the community.

And 10 years ago the whole trans thing wasn't an issue. I truly believe social media,and a spike in self entitled people have hijacked it .

Here's an interesting video . Not sure if you've watched it

x686y1e6wwQ

The difference between then and now is that a bunch of people like yourself got easily radicalised.

[Oliver_W]

You are quite literally mansplaining the LGBT community to a member of said community. Cringeworthy. The funny thing is you speak so confidently yet you clearly don't know anything besides the same cherry picked **** that Goldheart goes for.

He's cis, you're cis. As neither of you are trans, you literally both have as much in common with transpeople as the other does.

LGBT people aren't a monolith, and being one of the first three letters doesn't mean you have an understanding of the fourth.


(I'm deign to use the word "cis", but the original version was way too clunky:joker: )

Edit: the first non-ironic use of the word "mansplain" in god knows how long completely passed me by :laugh: :joker: said by one man to another :crazy:

Stuff like that makes me think you have to be trolling.

[GoldHeart]

The difference between then and now is that a bunch of people like yourself got easily radicalised.

You calling me 'radicalised' is the funniest thing ever. Do you ever listen to yourself :joker: . Yeah the reason things have changed in the past 10 years is because of me .....you've got me there :joker: .

You give zero toffee about that labour MP yelling in an environment where he's meant to be professional, as women I guess we should shut up and be quiet , how dare we air our concerns??? :hee:. How very 'progressive ' of you .

[Cherie]

You calling me 'radicalised' is the funniest thing ever. Do you ever listen to yourself :joker: . Yeah the reason things have changed in the past 10 years is because of me .....you've got me there :joker: .

You give zero toffee about that labour MP yelling in an environment where he's meant to be professional, as women I guess we should shut up and be quiet , how dare we air our concerns??? :hee:. How very 'progressive ' of you .

It seems to be always male bullies shouting the odds funny that

[Crimson Dynamo]

It seems to be always male bullies shouting the odds funny that

its a hatred of women when you boil it down

[The Slim Reaper]

In that vid she knows exactly what she's doing by linking trans people with paedophiles. There's a reason that "groomer" is now being thrown around like confetti at a wedding. Politics is a combat sport, and although I neither agree with it, or nor would I act that way, I think you have to realise this is a debate in parliament, and that's just how it goes down sometimes.

This is not a reply to goldheart, who I understand we're not allowed to address anymore. It's a general comment.

[Crimson Dynamo]

In that vid she knows exactly what she's doing by linking trans people with paedophiles. There's a reason that "groomer" is now being thrown around like confetti at a wedding. Politics is a combat sport, and although I neither agree with it, or nor would I act that way, I think you have to realise this is a debate in parliament, and that's just how it goes down sometimes.

This is not a reply to goldheart, who I understand we're not allowed to address anymore. It's a general comment.

when some mp dared to say to Wee Kranky that a "trans rapist" was around the corner she attacked them and called them a bigot

it was around the corner

now she is unemployed

tom, take note m8te

[The Slim Reaper]

when some mp dared to say to Wee Kranky that a "trans rapist" was around the corner she attacked them and called them a bigot

it was around the corner

now she is unemployed

tom, take note m8te

Sorry dude, but I genuinely don't understand what any of this means.

[Cherie]

Sorry dude, but I genuinely don't understand what any of this means.

I found it quite clear

Who told you not to address GH? the same person who said I was discussing you elsewhere : :crazy:

[The Slim Reaper]

Who told you not to address GH? the same person who said I was discussing you elsewhere : :crazy:

Cherie, we both agreed to give each other a wide berth, so not sure why you feel the need to interject.

[Cherie]

Cherie, we both agreed to give each other a wide berth, so not sure why you feel the need to interject.

I can change my mind...a woman’s perogative I believe :smug:

[Cherie]

In that vid she knows exactly what she's doing by linking trans people with paedophiles. There's a reason that "groomer" is now being thrown around like confetti at a wedding. Politics is a combat sport, and although I neither agree with it, or nor would I act that way, I think you have to realise this is a debate in parliament, and that's just how it goes down sometimes.

This is not a reply to goldheart, who I understand we're not allowed to address anymore. It's a general comment.

I am genuinely interested in who told you this ?

[Crimson Dynamo]

Sorry dude, but I genuinely don't understand what any of this means.

i genuinely dont care

[GoldHeart]

Oh deary me lol

[Crimson Dynamo]

Oh deary me lol

#genuine

[The Slim Reaper]

i genuinely dont care

Then #genuinely don't reply to me

#easypeasylemonsqueezy

[Crimson Dynamo]

Then #genuinely don't reply to me

#easypeasylemonsqueezy

i have you on ignore so why you are replying to me is thge biggest cis-mystery

[The Slim Reaper]

In that vid she knows exactly what she's doing by linking trans people with paedophiles. There's a reason that "groomer" is now being thrown around like confetti at a wedding. Politics is a combat sport, and although I neither agree with it, or nor would I act that way, I think you have to realise this is a debate in parliament, and that's just how it goes down sometimes.

This is not a reply to goldheart, who I understand we're not allowed to address anymore. It's a general comment.

when some mp dared to say to Wee Kranky that a "trans rapist" was around the corner she attacked them and called them a bigot

it was around the corner

now she is unemployed

tom, take note m8te

i have you on ignore so why you are replying to me is thge biggest cis-mystery

Not sure your ignore is working properly in that case.

[Tom4784]

He's cis, you're cis. As neither of you are trans, you literally both have as much in common with transpeople as the other does.

LGBT people aren't a monolith, and being one of the first three letters doesn't mean you have an understanding of the fourth.


(I'm deign to use the word "cis", but the original version was way too clunky:joker: )

Edit: the first non-ironic use of the word "mansplain" in god knows how long completely passed me by :laugh: :joker: said by one man to another :crazy:

Stuff like that makes me think you have to be trolling.

Well, you aren't part of the community, you've said as much yourself in the past so why are you trying to make out that your disconnect is somehow universal? You decided to be a right wing pet and now you don't really know anything about the community, you just assume that your experiences are universal when they are not.


You calling me 'radicalised' is the funniest thing ever. Do you ever listen to yourself :joker: . Yeah the reason things have changed in the past 10 years is because of me .....you've got me there :joker: .

You give zero toffee about that labour MP yelling in an environment where he's meant to be professional, as women I guess we should shut up and be quiet , how dare we air our concerns??? :hee:. How very 'progressive ' of you .

Make me laugh, tell me how I'm radicalised, this should be good.

It seems to be always male bullies shouting the odds funny that

One day, Cherie, you'll learn what 'ignore' means because you made a big song and dance about putting me on ignore yet I'm still the main topic of conversation you engage in. Your love for me will always be unreciprocated.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Not sure your ignore is working properly in that case.

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/CreativeFocusedIberianbarbel-size_restricted.gif

[Oliver_W]

Well, you aren't part of the community, you've said as much yourself in the past so why are you trying to make out that your disconnect is somehow universal?
You don't know anything about being trans, the "community" is a bit arbitrary, all said and done. I know what it's like to be same-sex attracted, but I don't know what it's like to be a lesbian, and wouldn't presume to speak for them.

In the same vein, ToyBoy can speak about trans people just as much as you can. What's more, his "mansplaining" (:crazy:) actually spoke about trans experiences and happenings, while your posts were just your usual ranting insanity.

Being part of the same abbreviation doesn't give you an ounce of insight over those who aren't. Clearly.



You decided to be a right wing pet and now you don't really know anything about the community

Make me laugh, tell me how I'm a right wing pet, this should be good.

[user104658]

You are quite literally mansplaining the LGBT community to a member of said community. Cringeworthy. The funny thing is you speak so confidently yet you clearly don't know anything besides the same cherry picked **** that Goldheart goes for.

Please do this to an LGBT person in real life and be sure to record it, I want to see them glance to other LGBT people in the vicinity with that 'here we go again...' look and see whether they straight up laugh in your face or patronise you by letting you dig that hole further and further. Honestly, it could be an Alan Partridge sketch.

more solid points well made and well backed up Tom :joker:. Not at all irrational flailing ad hominem. I don't associate with people who roll their eyes and laugh in people's faces "in real life". Not really worth giving people with that attitude the time of day, is it?

Your belief is not required, I know this is probably hard for someone like you that has to impress your shallow intelligence on people at every opportunity (unsuccessfully), but no one has to perform for you either.

You are not as important to others as you think you are. People don't have to validate their opinions to you, and it's about time that insanely undeserved ego of yours comes to grips with that.

Also you're probably pretty **** at googling, if you actually googled it at all which I doubt.

It's called a debate/discussion but we've known for years that all you're interested in is a firebrand soap box, so this is as unsurprising as ever.

[user104658]

Please do this to an LGBT person in real life and be sure to record it

I will point out again (not to be all "my cousin's sister is black") but my daughter is gay and I have several gay friends, and multiple gay (and actually a couple of NB) colleagues and we talk about these issues all the time - respectfully, and professionally - two concepts which I think are probably beyond the reach of your righteous fury Tom. But no I'm not going to "record it for the internet" :joker:.

Not every LGBT person is as caught up in terminally online culture wars, and really quite as irredeemably frustrated and bitter about all of it as you are Tom. most people I know - gay and straight - outgrew this sort of rigid thinking in their early 30's ... but I suppose it's more difficult if you're still just kicking around the internet with 25 year olds. Perhaps step away from the keyboard every now and again and you might find yourself encountering some diverse LGBT views, from real LGBT people.

Then maybe you'll stop feeling like you have the authority to speak FOR the entire LGBT community? You have the gaul to talk of arrogance whilst declaring yourself a spokesperson for millions of free-thinking people with absolutely no credibility whatsoever to do that.

[GoldHeart]

This is what's strange to me , it's as if the opinions of other LGBT people aren't valid if they don't align with his views . Seems a bit narrow-minded if you ask me .

When I give examples of other LGBT saying things he doesn't agree with, they basically 'Dont count' .

[Crimson Dynamo]

Poor Tucker is not getting a look in :sad:

[user104658]

When I give examples of other LGBT saying things he doesn't agree with, they basically 'Dont count' .

It's more the "That's just things that gay, lesbian and trans individuals say and think - they're not part of the community." Lesbian, Gay, Bi and Trans people ... are not represented but the LGBT community... if their views don't align then they're not the right kind of gay? It's bizarre and really highlights that it at this point has very little to do with sexuality at all, it's just tribal, prescribed, and monitored for compliance.

One of my oldest friends is gay and has always shied away from LGBT groups/activities. He's not gay enough for them, I guess. I mean he's only been married to a man for 6 years, he might still secretly be a self-hating homophobe.

[user104658]

Poor Tucker is not getting a look in :sad:

Well at least one positive has come from all of this skirmishing.

[Tom4784]

You don't know anything about being trans, the "community" is a bit arbitrary, all said and done. I know what it's like to be same-sex attracted, but I don't know what it's like to be a lesbian, and wouldn't presume to speak for them.

In the same vein, ToyBoy can speak about trans people just as much as you can. What's more, his "mansplaining" (:crazy:) actually spoke about trans experiences and happenings, while your posts were just your usual ranting insanity.

Being part of the same abbreviation doesn't give you an ounce of insight over those who aren't. Clearly.





Make me laugh, tell me how I'm a right wing pet, this should be good.

Again, you're projecting your own experiences onto the LGBT as a whole. If you actually knew anything about LGBT history, you'd know that you basically wouldn't have the rights we have today without the efforts of the various letters, and that's why an attack on one letter will see the others band together. You don't have that sense of community, of the history, or the struggle and you think your experience is universal because of it.

more solid points well made and well backed up Tom :joker:. Not at all irrational flailing ad hominem. I don't associate with people who roll their eyes and laugh in people's faces "in real life". Not really worth giving people with that attitude the time of day, is it?



It's called a debate/discussion but we've known for years that all you're interested in is a firebrand soap box, so this is as unsurprising as ever.

Ah, a friend of the gays only if they regard you with wonder and amazement then. 'Oh wow, Mr Straight Person, you're so smart and wise, please try and tell us about ourselves because you think you know the struggles more than someone who lives them'.

You come from a place of privilege and you're nothing more than a tourist in these issues and you think you know more by association when you don't and likely will never understand the issues from the inside. You're a joke.


I will point out again (not to be all "my cousin's sister is black") but my daughter is gay and I have several gay friends, and multiple gay (and actually a couple of NB) colleagues and we talk about these issues all the time - respectfully, and professionally - two concepts which I think are probably beyond the reach of your righteous fury Tom. But no I'm not going to "record it for the internet" :joker:.

Not every LGBT person is as caught up in terminally online culture wars, and really quite as irredeemably frustrated and bitter about all of it as you are Tom. most people I know - gay and straight - outgrew this sort of rigid thinking in their early 30's ... but I suppose it's more difficult if you're still just kicking around the internet with 25 year olds. Perhaps step away from the keyboard every now and again and you might find yourself encountering some diverse LGBT views, from real LGBT people.

Then maybe you'll stop feeling like you have the authority to speak FOR the entire LGBT community? You have the gaul to talk of arrogance whilst declaring yourself a spokesperson for millions of free-thinking people with absolutely no credibility whatsoever to do that.

I don't speak for anyone else, I just speak of my own experiences and that upsets you clearly. A bunch of straight people who already have an issue with trans people and their pet gay trying to dictate what the LGBT is and what it entails to the one person in this topic that is actually a part of the community.

You might understand that if you weren't huffing on your own farts thinking it was perfume.

Also it's really gross when straight people use gay friends and relatives as a shield.

You criticised me for caring more about trans violence and suicide because it was a 'small niche' when compared to the whole which suggested that you place more importance on hetero and cisgendered people than the 'small niche' of trans people. Do the other letters come under that as well? If something happens to your daughter, will it be acceptable because she's part of a 'small niche', are your shields-I mean, gay friends part of that equation too? Or is it just trans people that you're willing to overlook? You really ****ed up with that line tbh, the mask really slipped for a moment there, and no amount of 'yeah it's sad that trans people get targeted and have higher rates of suicde BUT' is going to cover it.

Honestly, you've got competition, but you might be one of the worst people on here. You think you're some ally, some font of knowledge on LGBT issues when you seek to minimise them and any LGBT person that doesn't think the sun shines out your arse. You just think that LGBT people are an accessory to make you look better, and sadly that seems to count for your own child as well.

[GoldHeart]

Again, you're projecting your own experiences onto the LGBT as a whole. If you actually knew anything about LGBT history, you'd know that you basically wouldn't have the rights we have today without the efforts of the various letters, and that's why an attack on one letter will see the others band together. You don't have that sense of community, of the history, or the struggle and you think your experience is universal because of it.



Ah, a friend of the gays only if they regard you with wonder and amazement then. 'Oh wow, Mr Straight Person, you're so smart and wise, please try and tell us about ourselves because you think you know the struggles more than someone who lives them'.

You come from a place of privilege and you're nothing more than a tourist in these issues and you think you know more by association when you don't and likely will never understand the issues from the inside. You're a joke.




I don't speak for anyone else, I just speak of my own experiences and that upsets you clearly. A bunch of straight people who already have an issue with trans people and their pet gay trying to dictate what the LGBT is and what it entails to the one person in this topic that is actually a part of the community.

You might understand that if you weren't huffing on your own farts thinking it was perfume.

Also it's really gross when straight people use gay friends and relatives as a shield.

You criticised me for caring more about trans violence and suicide because it was a 'small niche' when compared to the whole which suggested that you place more importance on hetero and cisgendered people than the 'small niche' of trans people. Do the other letters come under that as well? If something happens to your daughter, will it be acceptable because she's part of a 'small niche', are your shields-I mean, gay friends part of that equation too? Or is it just trans people that you're willing to overlook? You really ****ed up with that line tbh, the mask really slipped for a moment there, and no amount of 'yeah it's sad that trans people get targeted and have higher rates of suicde BUT' is going to cover it.

Honestly, you've got competition, but you might be one of the worst people on here. You think you're some ally, some font of knowledge on LGBT issues when you seek to minimise them and any LGBT person that doesn't think the sun shines out your arse. You just think that LGBT people are an accessory to make you look better, and sadly that seems to count for your own child as well.

I didn't realise you were a counseling expert on family relationships. Do you personally know SB 's daughter then ? .

[Tom4784]

This is what's strange to me , it's as if the opinions of other LGBT people aren't valid if they don't align with his views . Seems a bit narrow-minded if you ask me .

When I give examples of other LGBT saying things he doesn't agree with, they basically 'Dont count' .

Not at all. You'd understand where I was coming from if you weren't so devoted to always missing the point.

Detransitioning is a thing, but it's not as common as you'd want it to be. Most people who transition will transition in their own way and will likely see it through to the end they are happiest with. Other people may not be sure on what form their transition will take, if at all. Some people pause their transitions, some people realise that it might not be for them, but the truth is that detransitioning completely is mostly quite rare.

It's only a narrative you want to push because it's the big current right wing narrative, and it's a dangerous narrative, as evidenced by the case of Eden Knight. Eden Knight was a trans saudi woman who came to the US for college and sought to remain as a permanent resident afterwards. She was preyed upon by a right wing man masquerading as someone who could help her case, and he convinced her to stop transitioning which led to depression, suicidal thoughts and intent. It was essentially abuse, and it turns out that the man wasn't ever trying to help Eden remain in the US, he was hired by her family to bring her home detransitioned. Eden eventually had to return home where she was abused by her family to the point she killed herself.

Interfering with people's transitions is a ****ing dangerous thing, especially when you're a bad actor pretending to care about the trans person in question when really, you just want to stop the act of transitioning in the first place.

Although knowing you, you probably consider what happened to Eden Knight to be a happy ending.

[Tom4784]

I didn't realise you were a counseling expert on family relationships. Do you personally know SB 's daughter then ? .

He said it himself He did the whole 'I have gay friends/family' defense. He used them as shields in that moment. Do keep up.

[user104658]

Again, you're projecting your own experiences onto the LGBT as a whole. If you actually knew anything about LGBT history, you'd know that you basically wouldn't have the rights we have today without the efforts of the various letters, and that's why an attack on one letter will see the others band together. You don't have that sense of community, of the history, or the struggle and you think your experience is universal because of it.



Ah, a friend of the gays only if they regard you with wonder and amazement then. 'Oh wow, Mr Straight Person, you're so smart and wise, please try and tell us about ourselves because you think you know the struggles more than someone who lives them'.

No I just don't engage in meaningful conversation with immature, defensive people of any description... because I'm not a frustrated teenager. I'm not sure why I try online.



I don't speak for anyone else, I just speak of my own experiences and that upsets you clearly.
Anyone who has read this thread knows that this is patently untrue, you've attempted to be a mouthpiece for "the community" multiple times, going so far as to dictate who can and cannot be a part of it.


You criticised me for caring more about trans violence and suicide because it was a 'small niche' when compared to the whole which suggested that you place more importance on hetero and cisgendered people than the 'small niche' of trans people. Do the other letters come under that as well? If something happens to your daughter, will it be acceptable because she's part of a 'small niche', are your shields-I mean, gay friends part of that equation too? Or is it just trans people that you're willing to overlook? You really ****ed up with that line tbh, the mask really slipped for a moment there, and no amount of 'yeah it's sad that trans people get targeted and have higher rates of suicide BUT' is going to cover it.

Your inability to understand my point really isn't my problem; I haven't once said that trans people are unimportant or that suicides should be considered acceptable in comparison to others, all I said was that you can't do a like-for-like comparison of "who has it worst" when making practical social decisions, because there are other factors - for example, which option affects most people. You've taken it the way you've chosen to take it because you see hatred and oppression lurking around every corner ... because you are a hateful and oppressive person by nature.

Honestly, you've got competition, but you might be one of the worst people on here.

I think that's probably a compliment, coming from the literal worst person on here. It's really quite spectacular... I agree with you on the vast majority of topics - gender issues aside - and yet I still honestly think this. Just soaked in this sad bitterness, and a belief that "going in harder and harder" is any sort of compensation for having zero ability to hold a discussion.

You think you're some ally, some font of knowledge on LGBT issues when you seek to minimise them and any LGBT person that doesn't think the sun shines out your arse. You just think that LGBT people are an accessory to make you look better, and sadly that seems to count for your own child as well.

I doubt even your pals won't cringe at this one Dezzy. Like I said before; you'd never speak to someone in the real world the way you speak to people on here. Terminally online nonsense, you genuinely need to get out of the basement.

[GoldHeart]

Not at all. You'd understand where I was coming from if you weren't so devoted to always missing the point.

Detransitioning is a thing, but it's not as common as you'd want it to be. Most people who transition will transition in their own way and will likely see it through to the end they are happiest with. Other people may not be sure on what form their transition will take, if at all. Some people pause their transitions, some people realise that it might not be for them, but the truth is that detransitioning completely is mostly quite rare.

It's only a narrative you want to push because it's the big current right wing narrative, and it's a dangerous narrative, as evidenced by the case of Eden Knight. Eden Knight was a trans saudi woman who came to the US for college and sought to remain as a permanent resident afterwards. She was preyed upon by a right wing man masquerading as someone who could help her case, and he convinced her to stop transitioning which led to depression, suicidal thoughts and intent. It was essentially abuse, and it turns out that the man wasn't ever trying to help Eden remain in the US, he was hired by her family to bring her home detransitioned. Eden eventually had to return home where she was abused by her family to the point she killed herself.

Interfering with people's transitions is a ****ing dangerous thing, especially when you're a bad actor pretending to care about the trans person in question when really, you just want to stop the act of transitioning in the first place.

Although knowing you, you probably consider what happened to Eden Knight to be a happy ending.

That's low even for you :crazy:, why the hell would that be a happy ending . You're now showing your true colours....you have such bitter hate for us on Tibb. It's both tragic and disturbing,you don't even know me.

To actually say that is going too far . But I guess you class yourself as a special protected 'class' .....so you can say what you want,no matter how vindictive ??!.

[user104658]

I didn't realise you were a counseling expert on family relationships. Do you personally know SB 's daughter then ? .

He's hamfistedly trying to get a "How dare yooouuuu" response out of me I think. It's... well, it's something to see in a grown man, certainly.

[Crimson Dynamo]

https://twitter.com/PiersUncensored/status/1637914407106650115?s=20

[user104658]

Although knowing you, you probably consider what happened to Eden Knight to be a happy ending.

To highlight some more of this self awareness; you just accused me of calmly using people close to me "as a shield" and then one post later chose to use weaponise the suicide of a named young person to make a petty, and completely unfounded and out of proportion, point on a forum.

Take a walk Dezzy, you're unravelling at this point.

[GoldHeart]

He's hamfistedly trying to get a "How dare yooouuuu" response out of me I think. It's... well, it's something to see in a grown man, certainly.

He gets far too personal , if the shoe was on the other foot and we made assumptions about his family life & upbringing .....he'd be offended.