World Athletics bans Transgender Women from competing

[arista]

This was on the cards
Makes sense.



[World Athletics bans transgender women
from competing in female world ranking events]


[World Athletics has banned transgender
women from competing in the
female category at international events.
The governing body's president, Lord Coe,
said no transgender athlete who had gone
through male puberty would be permitted
to compete in female world ranking
competitions from 31 March.

A working group will be set up to conduct
further research into the
transgender eligibility guidelines.

"We're not saying no forever," he said.

Under previous rules, World Athletics
required transgender women to reduce
their amount of blood testosterone to
a maximum of 5nmol/L,
and stay under this threshold continuously
for a period of 12 months
before competing in the
female category.
Lord Coe added the decision was
"guided by the overarching principle which
is to protect the female category".
He noted that there are currently no
transgender athletes competing
internationally in the sport.]


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics/65051900

[Zizu]

Will they just trust their word ?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Gusto Brunt]

I was on Twitter the other day and saw a boxing match - a real young woman height about 5 feet 6 and she was fighting against this bloke wearing make up and hair in a bun, probably height about 6 feet 4.

She was hammered. It was very sad to see because she looked like she had good boxing skills but this guy way was too big, massive gloves, muscles. Madness.:fist::fist:

[Oliver_W]

The right move tbh.

Transwomen shouldn't be banned from competing full stop, that'd be unfair. But it's also unfair to allow them to compete against women.

[Niamh.]

The right move tbh.

Transwomen shouldn't be banned from competing full stop, that'd be unfair. But it's also unfair to allow them to compete against women.

An open division would solve this issue

[Crimson Dynamo]

Another victory for women

[bots]

i think the tide is turning

[user104658]

An open division would solve this issue

To be fair though, I don't think there's much point in a fully open division of most ports, because it would just be a second men's division at the top of the scale. Trans men are never going to be as large/strong as biological males, and trans women while they do retain unfair physical advantages over biological women, if they're on hormones, they're not going to be able to compete with men either. Especially given how many men in sports are juicing/on EXTRA testosterone "off season".

[Liam-]

Organisations punishing a whole demographic of people because of who they are, what a wonderful world to live in

[Niamh.]

To be fair though, I don't think there's much point in a fully open division of most ports, because it would just be a second men's division at the top of the scale. Trans men are never going to be as large/strong as biological males, and trans women while they do retain unfair physical advantages over biological women, if they're on hormones, they're not going to be able to compete with men either. Especially given how many men in sports are juicing/on EXTRA testosterone "off season".

Well then the only other option is transmen and transwomen divisions if there was enough interest/uptake. It's so messy really, even having transmen in womens divisions would be unfair if they're on testosterone because that's essentially taking performance enhancing drugs.

[Niamh.]

Organisations punishing a whole demographic of people because of who they are, what a wonderful world to live in

Yeah because female athletes wouldn't be punished by having male born athletes compete against them?

[Oliver_W]

Organisations punishing a whole demographic of people because of who they are, what a wonderful world to live in

They're not being pushed out, transwomen can still compete against other biological males :shrug:

[Crimson Dynamo]

Organisations punishing a whole demographic of people because of who they are, what a wonderful world to live in

yes its called the real world

:douf:

[user104658]

Organisations punishing a whole demographic of people because of who they are, what a wonderful world to live in

It's that or not bother having women's sport at all :shrug:. There are only two real options;

1) Accept that biological differences between the sexes means we need to have segregated male and female sports

2) Deny that there are biological differences between the sexes and have all sport fall under one category (open to all)


In the first option, trans women can't compete because there's an accepted biological advantage.

In the second option, neither women nor trans women can compete, because of biological advantages and the disadvantaging effect of hormone therapies. male-bodied people who identify as women or non-binary could compete against men. Trans women who have transitioned medically would stand no chance at the top level. Nor would trans men.

There's no option where male-bodied people competing exclusively against females is a fair or safe option. There's some junk science about checking hormone levels and that being an indicator of any advantage but it's constantly being debunked as nonsense. men are larger and stronger than women on average and have higher bone and muscle density (the difference is not small) and this isn't mitigated with hormonal therapies.

Really it's just that;

1) You think inority inclusion is more iportant than fairness in sport, and
2) You don't care one bit about inclusion for biological females because you hate them and want them not to exist.

[Tom4784]

Transwomen have been competing against cisgendered women in different levels of sports for a while, yet they don't dominate the field. In fact you rarely hear about trans athletes unless they win an event, in which case their win is thrown under suspicion despite the fact that they may not win well at all.

It's a Schrodinger's cat situation. It's unfair that transwomen compete against cisgender women yet this advantage they supposedly have doesn't really materialise into results much.

It also reminds me of a situation that happened recently in the US on a High School's women's wrestling team, due to the change of laws pushed through by transphobes, a transman had to compete against women and photos of his domination went viral among transphobes who cried that it was unfair because they assumed he was a transwoman competing against cisgendered women, and not a trans man forced to compete against women because of a law these people pushed through.

If you're going to force transwomen to compete against men, will you be happy if transmen are made to compete against women?

[Oliver_W]

will you be happy if transmen are made to compete against women?
No, because virtually all sports have a ban against performance-enhancing drugs. Whatever reason they're taken for, testosterone is exactly that.

As far as I know there aren't any rules specifically against performance degrading drugs, but transwomen doing so and weaken themselves is their choice.

In both cases, maybe they should ask themselves if those few changes HRT grants them are really worth their sporting careers?

[Tom4784]

So your answer is to encourage people to detransition or lose their careers.

I'm sure that won't end tragically.

[Crimson Dynamo]

So your answer is to encourage people to detransition or lose their careers.

I'm sure that won't end tragically.

or just accept that sport is divided by your biological sex which never changes despite how you are feeling?

[Oliver_W]

So your answer is to encourage people to detransition or lose their careers.

I'm sure that won't end tragically.

And your solution is to force women to compete against males?

They don't have to "socially" detransition.

[Beso]

It's the only sensible way forward to make it fair on everyone.

[Tom4784]

And your solution is to force women to compete against males?

They don't have to "socially" detransition.

No, I don't think women should be competing against men, which is why I'm not arguing for that, I'm arguing for trans people to be able to compete in their own gender. Don't try to misrepresent what I'm saying, it just makes you look illiterate.

After all, like I said before, trans athletes are allowed to compete in a lot of sports, yet we have not seen a total domination by any trans athletes in the women's divisions. If transwomen have an unfair advantage, then why is it not translating to them getting better results?

Forcing people to detransition or face consequences is monstrous no matter how you cut it.

[Oliver_W]

No, I don't think women should be competing against men, I'm arguing for trans people to be able to compete in their own gender.

Gender is a social construct, why should it overrule sex?

[Tom4784]

Funnily enough, this is going to affect female athletes like Caster Semenya too, born female, legally female, and will be treated like a man unless she chemically alters herself because of changes to the rules.

[Tom4784]

Gender is a social construct, why should it overrule sex?

I see you dodged the point I made about trans athletes not typically producing results in the women's divisions. Interesting.

[Oliver_W]

I see you dodged the point I made about trans athletes not typically producing results in the women's divisions. Interesting.

Are you making things up again, or do you have a source to demonstrate what you're saying?

[user104658]

It's a plain old big fat lie that there aren't examples of trans athletes who have risen or are rising through the ranks of female sports at a disproportionate rate to overall percentage of population. Just such an obvious lie that I can only assume it's deliberate.

And that's WITHOUT taking into account the surge in recent years of gender ideology in the mainstream - so we should be looking ahead to what things look like in 10 to 20 years and trying to plan accordingly, not just saying "oh well we'll think about that later".

Personally, I'm not entirely averse to the video of objectively assessing strength/durability levels and segregating that way, like boxing weight categories, but I suspect that would end with most trans women being in with mid-tier males, and I would predict that many would take umbridge with that as well.

[Alf]

It's that or not bother having women's sport at all :shrug:. There are only two real options;

1) Accept that biological differences between the sexes means we need to have segregated male and female sports

2) Deny that there are biological differences between the sexes and have all sport fall under one category (open to all)


In the first option, trans women can't compete because there's an accepted biological advantage.

In the second option, neither women nor trans women can compete, because of biological advantages and the disadvantaging effect of hormone therapies. male-bodied people who identify as women or non-binary could compete against men. Trans women who have transitioned medically would stand no chance at the top level. Nor would trans men.

There's no option where male-bodied people competing exclusively against females is a fair or safe option. There's some junk science about checking hormone levels and that being an indicator of any advantage but it's constantly being debunked as nonsense. men are larger and stronger than women on average and have higher bone and muscle density (the difference is not small) and this isn't mitigated with hormonal therapies.

Really it's just that;

1) You think inority inclusion is more iportant than fairness in sport, and
2) You don't care one bit about inclusion for biological females because you hate them and want them not to exist.It's not about what's right. It's about Liam being seen to be virtuous and speaking up for the minorities. That's the most important thing to him. It's for selfish reasons deep down.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Funnily enough, this is going to affect female athletes like Caster Semenya too, born female, legally female, and will be treated like a man unless she chemically alters herself because of changes to the rules.

Caster Semenya should not have been assigned female at birth and had he been born in the UK his genetic mutation would have been picked up before birth. He has testes a male DSD. Its of no fault of his that he was led to believe he was female.

[user104658]

Actual medical anomalies at birth shouldn't be part of the same debate as gender ID - it's a completely different thing and should be a completely separate consideration. It does affected individuals no favours at all for it to be lumped in with social gender ideology.

[Mystic Mock]

Organisations punishing a whole demographic of people because of who they are, what a wonderful world to live in

Tbf you can't have Transwomen competing with biological women in most Sports because of the biological advantage that Transwomen do have.

I honestly hope that Sports consider opening up a third form of the Sport for Transwomen to be able to take part against each other.

[GoldHeart]

It's the right decision

You can't deny biology as it has to be a level playing field.