Critics savage Dakota Johnson's Spider-Man spin-off

[bots]

Madame Web, the fourth film in Sony's Spider-Man Universe, has been branded a "tangled mess" by critics, who have largely savaged it.

Starring Dakota Johnson and Sydney Sweeney, both the film premise and the acting have come under fire in a string of one-star reviews.

Based on Marvel Comics, the film centres around a paramedic with arachnid-based psychic powers.

Last year the trailer went viral for its "laughably unsure tone".

In a single-star review, the Guardian's Benjamin Lee called the film "as dumb and schlocky as the worst of the genre, with lousy network TV effects, uninvolving action and unfunny and inelegant dialogue".

Variety's Peter Debruge also slated the film, saying it felt "superfluous" in a "world already a little overcrowded with arachnid-related superheroes".

The title character has "ill-defined powers and nothing especially interesting to do", he added.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-68292731

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:laugh:

[Ammi]

…blame the movie makers, not the actress/star…?…this genre of movies is just so explored that any have to be pretty sensational and exceptional and unique, to stand out as having positive reviews ….I was just watching the trailer and Dakota is as lovely as she always is, she delivers her role in exactly how it would be hoped or expected from her…so if she’s disappointing the critics in some way then she was wrongly chosen…but what do they know anyway…

…here’s the trailer, she looks fine to me…as uniquely Dakota as always…


s_76M4c4LTo

[Niamh.]

My stepson and his g/f went to see it last night and they enjoyed it

[Ammi]

My stepson and his g/f went to see it last night and they enjoyed it

….see…smart and discerning public audience 1 - lazy old critics 0….

[bots]

i think the critics are suffering from super hero burn out

[Crimson Dynamo]

‘Madame Web’ Isn’t As Bad As You’ve Heard. It’s So Much Worse

Its not one critic its all critics - the film is a hot mess and i would not advise anyone to waste their money.

"A genuine Chernobyl-level disaster that seems to get exponentially more radioactive as
it goes along, this detour to one of the dustier corners of Marvel’s content farm is a
dead end from start to finish. It is the Cats: The Movie of superhero movies. Not a
single decision seems of sound mind. Not a single performance feels in sync with the
material. Not a single line reading feels as if it hasn’t somehow been magically Auto-
Tuned to subtract emotion and/or inflection. The sole amazing factor of this Spider
spinoff is that someone, somewhere signed off on actually releasing it."

https://www.rollingstone.com/tv-movies/tv-movie-reviews/madame-web-review-dakota-johnson-mcu-spider-man-spinoff-1234956689/

IMBD gives it 3.8

Nuff said....

[thesheriff443]

She just went out wearing a see through dress which was interesting

[Nicky91]

don't care about critics myself, critics are just a bunch of snobs who think they know everything better (i mean they praise the snoozefest turd Oppenheimer into the heavens above for whatever reason)


i'll likely watch this, and i think i'll like it




this is who Madame Web is btw, in the comics

https://cdn.marvel.com/content/1x/screen_shot_2019-09-26_at_3.02.22_pm_2.png

so in this film, we get to see how she gets her spider powers, but she is above spider-man, and every spider men anyway in the multiverses


i've seen those animated series with the episodes involving her character, i quite liked her character anyway

[Niamh.]

i think the critics are suffering from super hero burn out

That's fair tbh, there was a bit of an over load in recent years and the quality has gone down. I watched the new Aquaman just recently and tbf it was poor enough, the special effects have gone really bad as well, almost cartoon like

[Niamh.]

I'm pretty curious to watch it myself now just to see if it really is as bad as the reviews, I am quite easily pleased when it comes to movies though :laugh:

[Mystic Mock]

i think the critics are suffering from super hero burn out

I think so too.

I haven't seen Madame Web, but I did enjoy the first Venom Film, which I know the critics bashed that too.

Imo Critics like a lot of boring stuff, it's best to just go with your own gut.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Imo Critics like a lot of boring stuff, it's best to just go with your own gut.

The whole point of critics is that they see films you haven't so you can avoid going to see crap like this

[Nicky91]

I think so too.

I haven't seen Madame Web, but I did enjoy the first Venom Film, which I know the critics bashed that too.

Imo Critics like a lot of boring stuff, it's best to just go with your own gut.

+1

exactly

we all have different tastes tbh


and not the first time either critics are harsh on Dakota, seems like they are extra hard on her just because she is the daughter of the hunky Miami Vice heartthrob and one hit wonder music star Don Johnson



most low rated films i tend to like (most of The Asylum from Syfy i enjoyed a lot, which got 2.0's or even below that) films, series should be lighthearted entertainment, nothing too heavy, or to overthink the story

that said one top rated film i am gonna watch when it is on Disney is Poor Things and i might like that one too

[Oliver_W]

The whole point of critics is that they see films you haven't so you can avoid going to see crap like this

The Harley Quinn film was a critical success :laugh:

[arista]

"blame the movie makers"

Yes Ammi

After some time they may say
the actors let them down

[Crimson Dynamo]

The Harley Quinn film was a critical success :laugh:

3 stars from the DT and 6.1 IMDB

That said Mark Kermode kind of liked it

so not universal by any means

[bots]

if a film has a compelling story, if the acting is top notch, it doesn't need fantastic special effects. I have trouble watching most of the modern super hero movies, because they constantly bombard you with action scenes with next to no actual story and the actors seem to be chosen on the basis of how long they have spent working out at the gym

[user104658]

if a film has a compelling story, if the acting is top notch, it doesn't need fantastic special effects. I have trouble watching most of the modern super hero movies, because they constantly bombard you with action scenes with next to no actual story and the actors seem to be chosen on the basis of how long they have spent working out at the gym

I both agree and disagree - it depends what you're going to watch, and if there's any art behind the CGI - a lot of critics are snobs who can't see it. To give some examples... Most recent Marvel films are bland, generic factory farmed CGI. Indeed boring.

However, I am a Snyder fan for his CGI and can give some examples of the exact opposite - utterly gorgeous CGI that's more than worth the price of admission, despite plots and overall movies only being mediocre.

1) Any "Flash" scene in the extended Justice League film. Not an amazing film, some gorgeous CGI.

2) The titular fight of Batman vs Superman. Stunning.

3) All of "Sucker Punch". The whole film. The plot is wafer thin and a bit twee. The film itself is an absolutely jaw-dropping CGI masterclass. The "Robot train" sequence is just outstanding.

To use a non-snyder examples... The "mysterio illusion" sequence from Spider-man Far From Home. Top drawer.

The Thanos vs Doctor Strange fight in Infinity War. Also brilliantly done.

But yes, in general, Disney/Marvel have gotten extremely lazy and these Sony Spider-verse films are soullessly trying to cash in and churning out garbage like Morbius and Madame Web.

[Ammi]

…I loved Sucker Punch…:love:…the fight scenes were superb and the story was such an impact…

[Nicky91]

I both agree and disagree - it depends what you're going to watch, and if there's any art behind the CGI - a lot of critics are snobs who can't see it. To give some examples... Most recent Marvel films are bland, generic factory farmed CGI. Indeed boring.

However, I am a Snyder fan for his CGI and can give some examples of the exact opposite - utterly gorgeous CGI that's more than worth the price of admission, despite plots and overall movies only being mediocre.

1) Any "Flash" scene in the extended Justice League film. Not an amazing film, some gorgeous CGI.

2) The titular fight of Batman vs Superman. Stunning.

3) All of "Sucker Punch". The whole film. The plot is wafer thin and a bit twee. The film itself is an absolutely jaw-dropping CGI masterclass. The "Robot train" sequence is just outstanding.

To use a non-snyder examples... The "mysterio illusion" sequence from Spider-man Far From Home. Top drawer.

The Thanos vs Doctor Strange fight in Infinity War. Also brilliantly done.

But yes, in general, Disney/Marvel have gotten extremely lazy and these Sony Spider-verse films are soullessly trying to cash in and churning out garbage like Morbius and Madame Web.

i disagree :idc:

Moon Knight, Ms Marvel, Werewolf at Night beg to differ in terms of proper storylines, a newer generation of heroes

with Ms Marvel also being good historical educational content (almost similar levels to Roots i think in terms of impact) with the partition of india, showcasing how evil the british also once were


and Werewolf at Night getting praised for usage of black/white filming work to give it that classic touch


Moon Knight i personally liked, this newer superhero looked fab, Ethan Hawke as the villain, his acting was phenomenal (he got praised for similar vibes to one flew over cuckoo's nest film)


She-Hulk okay fair enough there but i personally liked the sitcom vibe, felt refreshing for me, bit more lighthearted comedy for a change



i enjoyed watching Morbius, also nice quite alternative storytelling


Spiderman: No Way Home i had goosebumps with especially seeing Willem Dafoe again as Green Goblin and Alfred Molina as Doc Ock :flutter: as well as all spiderman actors in one film :love:



whats to come this year, Deadpool & Wolverine also looking forward to that, Hugh is amazing anyway, also excited for what songs are being used now, i liked the previous films its songs, Celine Dion ''Ashes'' :lovedup:




Disney aren't lazy at all :nono: proper deals of 100% ownership of Hulu, 20th Century Fox/21th Century Fox

we have Renegade Nell coming out this month could also be something nice i think for royalty fans out there as well as fans of around the napoleon era


Alien: Romulus also to come in august, hopefully a success for that franchise now similar to the predator prequel Prey, i have good hopes with the new director Fede Alvarez (he delivered amazing work in Don't Breathe films)

[Crimson Dynamo]

I watched Prisoners (2013) Stars Hugh Jackman and Jake Gyllenhaal last night. IMDB 8.1 and id give it 6.1.

But that film is completely different to watch as a parent than not a parent for example.

That said it was enjoyable but also ridiculously overacted and i spent lots of the movie thinking " well that would not happen" which is annoying

[Niamh.]

I both agree and disagree - it depends what you're going to watch, and if there's any art behind the CGI - a lot of critics are snobs who can't see it. To give some examples... Most recent Marvel films are bland, generic factory farmed CGI. Indeed boring.

However, I am a Snyder fan for his CGI and can give some examples of the exact opposite - utterly gorgeous CGI that's more than worth the price of admission, despite plots and overall movies only being mediocre.

1) Any "Flash" scene in the extended Justice League film. Not an amazing film, some gorgeous CGI.

2) The titular fight of Batman vs Superman. Stunning.

3) All of "Sucker Punch". The whole film. The plot is wafer thin and a bit twee. The film itself is an absolutely jaw-dropping CGI masterclass. The "Robot train" sequence is just outstanding.

To use a non-snyder examples... The "mysterio illusion" sequence from Spider-man Far From Home. Top drawer.

The Thanos vs Doctor Strange fight in Infinity War. Also brilliantly done.

But yes, in general, Disney/Marvel have gotten extremely lazy and these Sony Spider-verse films are soullessly trying to cash in and churning out garbage like Morbius and Madame Web.

…I loved Sucker Punch…:love:…the fight scenes were superb and the story was such an impact…

I hated Sucker Punch, was like watching some teenage boys wet dream, trying to disguise it as a "girl power" film

[user104658]

I hated Sucker Punch, was like watching some teenage boys wet dream, trying to disguise it as a "girl power" film

Like I said I found the plot thin and you're right it's somewhat problematic as well, I have abundant criticisms of Snyder films in general BUT that was my point really - say what you will about Snyder films... problematic themes, problematic casts, just over-long sometimes... however in terms of artistic vision in CGI-heavy action I honestly think there's no equal. The detail and clear (somewhat paradoxically) "hand-crafted" frame to frame construction of the action scenes is just a million miles from the Disney-factory-fresh approach you get in things like the MCU.

To be fair Disney is probably the worst for it and getting worse - churning out boring visual effects. They pulled out the stops for Infinity War and Endgame, I will give them that much, but otherwise it's just not "there" at all any more. Spider-man has done it best recently and IMO that's because there's heavy input from Sony and it's not a "pure" Disney/Marvel franchise despite being part of the MCU.

The one recent exception I'd give with the MCU is Shang Chi - not one of my favourite Marvel movies, but it's very clear that a lot of love and consideration has gone into the visual effects.

[user104658]

was like watching some teenage boys wet dream, trying to disguise it as a "girl power" film

I'm actually going to rewatch it and consider this because I have an inkling that it's a bad take, and that the BIB might be integral to the social commentary that is there BUT it's several years since I watched it so I can't be 100% of my thoughts on the exploitative elements. If my opinion is still the same I'll come back and mansplain it a bit :joker:.

If anything I remember my main criticism being that I found the exploitation/power dynamics commentary a bit unsubtle and on-the-nose, but not inaccurate. Over the top male gaze and anime-esque infantilisation is part of the commentary.

[Niamh.]

I'm actually going to rewatch it and consider this because I have an inkling that it's a bad take, and that the BIB might be integral to the social commentary that is there BUT it's several years since I watched it so I can't be 100% of my thoughts on the exploitative elements. If my opinion is still the same I'll come back and mansplain it a bit :joker:.

If anything I remember my main criticism being that I found the exploitation/power dynamics commentary a bit unsubtle and on-the-nose, but not inaccurate. Over the top male gaze and anime-esque infantilisation is part of the commentary.

We actually watched it a few years back for Movie Club on TiBB

https://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10997616&highlight=sucker+punch#post10997616

[Ammi]

…we did watch it in the movie club, maybe I recommended it…?…I can’t recall…but it’s strange the aspects/perspectives that we can focus on with these things…mine was more on the world that she created/they all created in the minds because of abuse and violence and exploitations etc….and that’s why I was so impacted emotionally as well because those dream sequences were the furthest thing from reality and the reality was so sad and awful…but yeah, I totally get what you feel about it also…

[Niamh.]

…we did watch it in the movie club, maybe I recommended it…?…I can’t recall…but it’s strange the aspects/perspectives that we can focus on with these things…mine was more on the world that she created/they all created in the minds because of abuse and violence and exploitations etc….and that’s why I was so impacted emotionally as well because those dream sequences were the furthest thing from reality and the reality was so sad and awful…but yeah, I totally get what you feel about it also…

Yeah you did, that was when i watched it for the first time, I put the link to the thread in my previous post :love:

[Ammi]

Yeah you did, that was when i watched it for the first time, I put the link to the thread in my previous post :love:

…yeah I just had a quick speed glance at that …and interesting that I saw other aspects of it on a second watch and didn’t focus on the same things ….

[Niamh.]

…yeah I just had a quick speed glance at that …and interesting that I saw other aspects of it on a second watch and didn’t focus on the same things ….

It was definitely a good one for the movie club though because there was a lot to discuss with it. We should start that up again actually, that was fun

[Ammi]

…I also think when we watch movies…?…in general for me anyway, it depends on our own emotions or vibe at the time in how we perceive things…which is why we can rewatch and rewatch and rewatch and find something ‘new’ every time with every watch for some movies…same with books that we read…part of us is in the story we’re watching…/…emotionally I mean…

[Niamh.]

…I also think when we watch movies…?…in general for me anyway, it depends on our own emotions or vibe at the time in how we perceive things…which is why we can rewatch and rewatch and rewatch and find something ‘new’ every time with every watch for some movies…same with books that we read…part of us is in the story we’re watching…/…emotionally I mean…

Oh yeah for sure, this is really sad but I remember trying to read PS I Love You and I had to stop because I just cried every time I picked it up :laugh: It was probably because I was the same age as the main character at the time and I couldn't stop imagining losing Gavin which is one of my worst fears

[user104658]

…we did watch it in the movie club, maybe I recommended it…?…I can’t recall…but it’s strange the aspects/perspectives that we can focus on with these things…mine was more on the world that she created/they all created in the minds because of abuse and violence and exploitations etc….and that’s why I was so impacted emotionally as well because those dream sequences were the furthest thing from reality and the reality was so sad and awful…but yeah, I totally get what you feel about it also…

I'm pretty sure that was always my take Ammi - looking at it in a "matrixy" way, Babydoll is a representation of the character's self-image in her own "Mind Matrix" an exaggerated and hyper-sexualised exploitative representation of the male gaze. I think absolutely key to the message is remembering (on a second watch) that Sweet Pea and Babydoll can be thought of as the same person, or for another interesting perspective, that Babydoll (like the rest of the female cast) doesn't exist at all and the whole story is actually from the perspective of Sweet Pea.

[Niamh.]

My issue with it was that it felt like it was trying to pass itself off as a female empowering film but it was 100% meant for a male audience and what men think is female empowerment.

[Ammi]

I'm pretty sure that was always my take Ammi - looking at it in a "matrixy" way, Babydoll is a representation of the character's self-image in her own "Mind Matrix" an exaggerated and hyper-sexualised exploitative representation of the male gaze. I think absolutely key to the message is remembering (on a second watch) that Sweet Pea and Babydoll can be thought of as the same person, or for another interesting perspective, that Babydoll (like the rest of the female cast) doesn't exist at all and the whole story is actually from the perspective of Sweet Pea.

….as I say, I think that with very layered and thought provoking topics and characters etc…some does come from us/the emotional vibe that we have while we’re watching and that can change and ‘flip’ a perspective, if you like…I don’t know when your first watch was but being a father of daughters etc and having concerns about ‘today’s world’…it would be interesting to see your views in comparison to last time…and the eyes that you’re watching it through now…because these things don’t remain fixed, do they….

…I don’t want to give too much away but for me it was similar to the series Crowded Room in how young and sadly damaged minds and memories find their ‘safe place’ to block and to reinvent at times also…

[Ammi]

My issue with it was that it felt like it was trying to pass itself off as a female empowering film but it was 100% meant for a male audience and what men think is female empowerment.

….I guess because in her head, she wasn’t a victim and she wasn’t disturbed or damaged by her past …her ‘fighting battles’ took on the part of her ‘mind battles’ and she overcame in her dreams…I do see it wasn’t well done and especially in the world of today …but the first time I watched it, it felt that it was her only ‘escapism’ and it’s a familiar thing with childhood trauma as well….the reality of her world was what stayed with me and the real impact of it….

[Mystic Mock]

The whole point of critics is that they see films you haven't so you can avoid going to see crap like this

Sometimes though I have seen them bash good Films imo.

[Niamh.]

….I guess because in her head, she wasn’t a victim and she wasn’t disturbed or damaged by her past …her ‘fighting battles’ took on the part of her ‘mind battles’ and she overcame in her dreams…I do see it wasn’t well done and especially in the world of today …but the first time I watched it, it felt that it was her only ‘escapism’ and it’s a familiar thing with childhood trauma as well….the reality of her world was what stayed with me and the real impact of it….

I just don't think it was a believable dream world a woman who's been abused and sexualised by men would come up with. Dancing around like a sexy knife wielding school girl. It seems like an idea a man might think a traumatised woman might come up with though

[Mystic Mock]

+1

exactly

we all have different tastes tbh


and not the first time either critics are harsh on Dakota, seems like they are extra hard on her just because she is the daughter of the hunky Miami Vice heartthrob and one hit wonder music star Don Johnson



most low rated films i tend to like (most of The Asylum from Syfy i enjoyed a lot, which got 2.0's or even below that) films, series should be lighthearted entertainment, nothing too heavy, or to overthink the story

that said one top rated film i am gonna watch when it is on Disney is Poor Things and i might like that one too

That's more than fair enough, Nicky.

One Asylum Film I do want to check out is Ape Vs. Mecha Ape, the name just grabs my attention.:laugh:

[Ammi]

I just don't think it was a believable dream world a woman who's been abused and sexualised by men would come up with. Dancing around like a sexy knife wielding school girl. It seems like an idea a man might think a traumatised women might come up with though

…yeah, honestly I get that totally…how it was ‘through a male gaze’ and part of that sexualising…adding to it, not countering it…but on a first watch and from my own memory, that hadn’t been my focus…and maybe that’s because I’ve had experience of psychological damage in childhood and coping mechanisms….that’s why it was good to revisit it as well….placing focus on other aspects much more…

[Ammi]

…it’s also the value of movie clubs/book clubs etc because we get the chance to look at story content through many different eyes…and a more complete way of viewing…

[Niamh.]

…it’s also the value of movie clubs/book clubs etc because we get the chance to look at story content through many different eyes…and a more complete way of viewing…

Absolutely

[Mystic Mock]

I just don't think it was a believable dream world a woman who's been abused and sexualised by men would come up with. Dancing around like a sexy knife wielding school girl. It seems like an idea a man might think a traumatised woman might come up with though

Tbf, they're probably trying to make the scenes be entertaining in a morbid kind of way.

I haven't seen the Film tbf, but that would be my guess based off of this particular post.

[Niamh.]

Tbf, they're probably trying to make the scenes be entertaining in a morbid kind of way.

I haven't seen the Film tbf, but that would be my guess based off of this particular post.

That's fine but don't claim to be anything more than the usual sexy-girl-in-skimpy-outfits then and certainly don't claim to be a film about female empowerment :laugh:

[Mystic Mock]

That's fine but don't claim to be anything more than the usual sexy-girl-in -skimpy-outfits then and certainly don't claim to be a film about female empowerment :laugh:

Some Films unfortunately do use deceptive marketing tactics to get people to watch their Film, that otherwise wouldn't watch it.

I personally don't like a Film deceiving me either, so I can see where you're coming from.

[Swan]

The rate at which they pump out these superhero movies over the past 10 years or so is relentless. There are bound to be a few the critics won't like. Personally i have hardly any interest in any superhero 'verse anymore.

[Crimson Dynamo]

The rate at which they pump out these superhero movies over the past 10 years or so is relentless. There are bound to be a few the critics won't like. Personally i have hardly any interest in any superhero 'verse anymore.

Cant wait for Marvel Floggo - The Dead Horse

In cinemas 2014

[Nicky91]

That's more than fair enough, Nicky.

One Asylum Film I do want to check out is Ape Vs. Mecha Ape, the name just grabs my attention.:laugh:

Mega Shark vs Crocosaurus is a good one, it also had Robert Picardo (ST Voy EMH) in it and Jaleel White (Urkel)


the two, three, five, six headed shark attack films are also enjoyable, three has legendary Danny Trejo in it

[Nicky91]

The rate at which they pump out these superhero movies over the past 10 years or so is relentless. There are bound to be a few the critics won't like. Personally i have hardly any interest in any superhero 'verse anymore.

Blade is one to look forward to i think, Mahersha Ali how he'll do compared to Wesley Snipes's OG (i like Mahersha ever since The 4400 series)


critics only care for the snoozes which always tend to do well at the Oscars, Golden Globes, if there is hardly any interest i have for, it is these predictable award events, where only the borefests tend to be winning prizes at


we should be doing a TiBB Movie Awards or something and then the proper way, with many more categories, for all genres basically, eligible are the releases of the year

[Mystic Mock]

Mega Shark vs Crocosaurus is a good one, it also had Robert Picardo (ST Voy EMH) in it and Jaleel White (Urkel)


the two, three, five, six headed shark attack films are also enjoyable, three has legendary Danny Trejo in it

I'll have to start my journey of Asylum Movies soon.

Especially as the only other thing that I'm really doing entertainment wise is watch my Brother play Tif- I mean Final Fantasy VII: Rebirth.:joker:

[Mystic Mock]

Blade is one to look forward to i think, Mahersha Ali how he'll do compared to Wesley Snipes's OG (i like Mahersha ever since The 4400 series)


critics only care for the snoozes which always tend to do well at the Oscars, Golden Globes, if there is hardly any interest i have for, it is these predictable award events, where only the borefests tend to be winning prizes at


we should be doing a TiBB Movie Awards or something and then the proper way, with many more categories, for all genres basically, eligible are the releases of the year

I do like the idea tbh.

[user104658]

My issue with it was that it felt like it was trying to pass itself off as a female empowering film but it was 100% meant for a male audience and what men think is female empowerment.

My read on it is honestly totally different Niamh - I don't think it is (or is trying to be) female-empowering I think it's quite a bleak commentary on the relentless and seemingly unassailable nature of violent male oppression. And I don't think the sequences are the character's idealised dream world, they're a representation of the male gaze and, in effect, a social commentary on exactly the things you're talking about.

She doesn't (and can't) win. Any victory is ultimately punished. I'm not saying it's a masterpiece but it's definitely more layered than being an anime-style CGI fest.