Brazilian Plane Crash

[UserSince2005]

So sad
Everyone dead
From a small town in Parana to SP
It should have been a quick flight but apparently the plane looked completely out of control as it crashed into a residential area of SP state.
Wonder what went wrong.

[Ninastar]

The footage is genuinely one of the scariest plane crash videos I’ve ever seen

I’ve heard that both engines stalled and that the pilot would have had to do a manoeuvre that was impossible in a plane that size

[arista]

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2024/08/09/22/88368127-13729019-The_plane_was_on_its_way_from_Cascavel_to_Guarulho s_cruising_at_-a-6_1723238838532.jpg

[arista]

The footage is genuinely one of the scariest plane crash videos I’ve ever seen

I’ve heard that both engines stalled and that the pilot would have had to do a manoeuvre that was impossible in a plane that size

All 61 are dead


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-13729019/likely-cause-death-spiral-brought-Brazil-Voepass-plane.html


[The twin-engine turboprop was flying
from Cascavel in the southern state
of Paraná to Guarulhos airport in
São Paulo city when it came down
in the town of Vinhedo, Voepass airline says.

Footage circulating on social media
shows a plane descending vertically,
spiralling as it falls.

The ATR 72-500 was carrying 57 passengers
and four crew. Local authorities say
there were no survivors.]


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c07e9x0d4p2o

[arista]

ATR 72 Aircraft
made by France/Italy

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATR_72

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0f/ATR_72-600_-_50505204912.jpg/440px-ATR_72-600_-_50505204912.jpg

[First flight 27 October 1988]

[Ammi]

…this is horrendous, so sad for all of those lives lost and their loved ones…also, for those who witnessed the plane plunging and the people falling from the sky…just awful beyond words…

[arista]

Good they have found the Black Box.

Soon we will find out why the engines on this 90minute journey
stopped working,

It must have over ride of controls

[Zizu]

Why don’t they make planes out of the same material as the black boxes

:)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Nicky91]

In the area of the crash, there was an active SIGMET advisory for severe icing from 12,000–21,000 feet (3,700–6,400 m).


hmmmmm, did they de-ice the plane properly through that area :think:



regarding the pilots

https://www.estadao.com.br/sao-paulo/piloto-10-anos-experiencia-veja-tripulacao-aviao-caiu-vinhedo-nprm/


Pilot had more than ten years of experience in this type of aircraft



seems it was climbing normally and then suddenly it spiralled out of control while also descending and a very high speed descend too, so whatever happened, it caught this crew by surprise

The Brazilian Air Force said in a statement that Flight 2283 did not declare an emergency

[Nicky91]

scarily similar to this

95yPrl51rf4

American Eagle Flight 4184, which also travelled through an area where icing was likely, they forgot to switch on the de-icing system because they were distracted by unnecessary private conversations with one of the flight attendants



were the pilots here too distracted?


a non-sterile cockpit can be fatal many times, during the flying there must be a sterile cockpit at all times, only things you are allowed to discuss is about whats going on during the flight, like that you can't forget any important steps to take in case of nasty weather ahead, other emergency situations


what was the relationship between the pilot and the first officer like, did they fly together more in the past years?



the way you can solve a plane crash's cause, is similar to a investigation by the police at a crime

gather a list of possible causes, and the one what's remaining, is likely to be the cause

[arista]

Why don’t they make planes out of the same material as the black boxes

:)




It would still explode
as it Hit the Ground FAST


All the Fuel in the Plane is the problem

[Livia]

Amazing no one on the ground was hurt or killed. I hope everyone died instantly in the crash, well before the fire started.

[arista]

Amazing no one on the ground was hurt or killed. I hope everyone died instantly in the crash, well before the fire started.

Yes, lucky.

With the Black box found
we can find out why the plane's computer
turned off the Propellers.




All planes must have an Over Ride
the pilot can then take control

It is terrible 62 all died, had no chance

[Nicky91]

Yes, lucky.

With the Black box found
we can find out why the plane's computer
turned off the Propellers.




All planes must have an Over Ride
the pilot can then take control

It is terrible 61 all died, had no chance

if the computer is responsible for the crash, as you say all planes should have an override for the pilot to shut off the autopilot and take control

they'll see that on the FDR, and also will hear what was going on those final minutes before the crash on the CVR

[arista]

if the computer is responsible for the crash, as you say all planes should have an override for the pilot to shut off the autopilot and take control

they'll see that on the FDR, and also will hear what was going on those final minutes before the crash on the CVR


The Cockpit Voice Recorder (CVR):


Yes the 2 in control
shouting why have the engines stopped



The computer on that plane murdered them

[Ninastar]

We outta show that computer!!!

[UserSince2005]

Crazy the airline didnt know exactly how many people were onboard. Aparently the death toll has increase by 1. What kind of operation are they running.

[Beso]

Scary times.

[arista]

Crazy the airline didnt know exactly how many people were onboard. Aparently the death toll has increase by 1. What kind of operation are they running.


Computer Control on that plane
is the problem,


Soon will get the Black Box Recordings


62 all died fast

[Nicky91]

improper maintenance on the computer systems maybe?

[Nicky91]

or maybe the pilots forgot to remove the waypoints from past recent flights, in the opposite heading

might also explain why it was spinning out of control, if it thought it was going in the wrong direction, and the pilot trying to counteract this, spiralling out of control towards the ground :think:

[Beso]

8 of them were cancer doctors..

7 others took a different plane at the last minute and survived.

[arista]

8 were all cancer doctors..

7 others took a different plane and survived.


Sad news, they were needed


They have been going through the Voice Recorder
so soon they can inform the world

[Beso]

Strange way for a plane travelling at high speed to drop out the sky, like straight down.. you would think it would fall forward as it was dropping due to its speed.

[arista]

Strange way for a plane travelling at high speed to drop out the sky, like straight down.. you would think it would fall forward as it was dropping due to its speed.


But this is the Two Big Propellors
stopping dead

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0f/ATR_72-600_-_50505204912.jpg/440px-ATR_72-600_-_50505204912.jpg

[arista]

Computer Error

[Nicky91]

BdHawSnHtRk

it did have a proper de-icing system


so ice must've not been a problem, unless this system also is operated by the plane's computer, and if there was an error in the computer, it might've not detected the ice on the wings

[Nicky91]

https://news.sky.com/story/brazil-planes-black-box-recording-reveals-co-pilots-comment-before-crash-local-media-says-13197490'


On 15 August, authorities reported that the crash occurred just one minute after the plane began a steep descent. The pilots had indicated that the plane required "more power"

.

[Nicky91]

what if there are two causes linked to each other

Flight Computer Failure - Failure off the De-Icing System




requires more power, well if ice is on the wings, this might be a huge problem for the engines tbh, to keep generating lift and thrust




but then again, why did the pilots enter a region of icing in the first place, rather than going around it?

What Were The Pilots's Reputation like

[Nicky91]

bEmKpBID_p8



@geraldo209
21 hours ago (edited)
Brazilian 737 pilot here. That day i was flying from Argentina to Sao Paulo. I flew through that same area a couple of hours later. in the STAR towards sao paulo. There was a severe icing advisory in effect. While Descending below fl200 we got ice formation on our windshields and wings. A very strong weather system was arriving from the south that day. Rip all the souls and the brave brazilian pilots whom im sure fought all the way to the very end.

.

one of the comments below i shall highlight, another pilot who was also flying in that same region that day who also encountered those exact weather conditions


why would these pilots fly through that sort of severe icing?

[arista]

[Why would these pilots fly through that sort of severe icing?]


Assume they did not know

[Nicky91]

the pilots in question

https://sampi.net.br/dir-arquivo-imagem/2024/08/d2ef0f921af39f8b4b9280c13c4d332d.png
(left) Danilo Santos Romana, (right) Humberto de Campos Alencar e Silva



alright the pilot (Romana)

▪ Overall Total flight hours – 4,539.2
▪ Total Flight hours as Pilot in Command (PIC) – 1,068.6
▪ Total Flight hours as Second in Command (SIC) – 3,332.9
▪ Total Flight hours as Flight Instructor – 954,4
▪ Total Flight hours as Dual in Command – 137.7
▪ Total Flight hours on Simulator – 231
▪ Total Flight hours on Airbus A330 as First Officer – 1,138.7
▪ Total Flight hours on Airbus A320 as First Officer – 1,289.5
▪ Total Flight hours on Multi-Engine – 67.6
▪ Total Flight hours on Single Engine – 1,138.7


▪ Airline pilot with more than 10 years of experience in the industry where more than 8 years has
been as an Airbus First Officer.
▪ Bachelor’s degree in Civil Aviation by Anhembi Morumbi University.
▪ Strong experience in operating in the busiest airports in the world from North America and South
America.
▪ Great use and experience with Corporate Resource Management (CRM) in the flight deck, which
is essential for a safe conduct and operation of a flight.
▪ Highly Concerned about performing and meeting with the highest level of Safety Standards in
the industry.
▪ Highly technical pilot, always performing accordingly with company’s policies and Standard
Operations Procedures.
▪ Professor in several subjects related to aviation, giving classes in flight schools.
▪ More than 20 certificates courses in Civil Aviation.


wow, that's very experienced despite his age of 35




https://www.jusbrasil.com.br/processos/nome/79703078/humberto-de-campos-alencar-e-silva
https://www.jusbrasil.com.br/processos/742008258/processo-n-000XXXX-1720245110013-do-trt11

a different story regarding the co-pilot, seems there were 2 lawsuits against him,


Termination of the Employment Contract



hmmmmm :suspect:

[Nicky91]

might not mean that much since the captain's superb track record compensates for this, but still what was the first officer fired for?


also these lawsuits are not exactly from that long ago, May 2024 i can imagine him having been feeling quite some stress because of this, wanting to do everything perfect now :think:

[arista]

[Flight Computer Failure - Failure off the De-Icing System]

That should be checked
before the flight

[Nicky91]

https://www.bandab.com.br/nacional/fab-nega-globo-caixa-preta/amp/


FAB denies that TV Globo had access to the recording of the black box of the Voepass plane


and https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/brazilian-congress-install-committee-voepass-crash-investigation-2024-08-27/

the Brazilian Congress created a committee to investigate the crash which was to be formed by Voepass executives and representatives from ATR




---------
https://www.reuters.com/fact-check/cancer-researcher-leonardo-ferreira-misidentified-victim-brazil-plane-crash-2024-08-14/

Leonardo Ferreira was misidentified as one of the victims of this crash, he has confirmed he is not dead nobody of that name was on the aircraft's passenger list

[Nicky91]

The preliminary report identified the following sequence of events (UTC−3:00):[47][51]

11:58:05 – aircraft takes off from Cascavel Airport (SBCA);
13:18:47 – aircraft communicated to the São Paulo approach tower (APP-SP) that it was at its ideal point of descent;
13:19:19 – APP-SP requested that the aircraft maintained altitude due to traffic, which temporarily restricted its descent;
13:20:33 – aircraft receives authorization to enter the SANPA position, maintaining altitude;
13:20:50 – the aircraft begins a right turn to the SANPA position;
13:20:57 – stall alert is activated;
13:21:09 – control of the aircraft was lost, the aircraft entered an abnormal flight attitude. At this point, the aircraft tilted to the left and then to the right. It then went into a "flat spin" until it collided with the ground;
13:22:02 – APP-SP made five calls to the aircraft, but received no response;
13:22:20 – the aircraft's recorders become inoperative;


https://dedalo.sti.fab.mil.br/en/85259
https://dedalo.sti.fab.mil.br/ocorrencia/85259

seems there was a malfunction with the de-icing system? it got turned on, but also manually turned back off, that makes no sense to do such thing, what was going on inside that cockpit

also why would they fly through that area of severe icing between 12.000 and 21.000 ft, at an altitude of 17.000 ft, why not fly around it?

[Nicky91]

the pilot has enough experience, ok he's clear



but the first officer is the one who turned on and off the de-icing system, also if you de-ice your wings, there will be form a moist layer, turning it off, makes that wing freeze even worse, so there is a serious flaw in the de-icing system, but honestly no one should ever fly through severe icing, that is why it is very important to check the weather in flight, especially going through an important thing as take off/landing the two most dangerous moments in the flight

[Nicky91]

also more traffic delayed their descent, made the situation worse, having to stay in that area of icing for a longer amount of time


if they had been cleared to descent further to lets say 11.000 ft they would've had more chances of making it safely


also not much communication between likely the FO and ATC about this issue and the severity of the weather between those altitudes