LGBT Poppy

[arista]

https://i.etsystatic.com/13054559/c/1449/1449/248/280/il/4260a9/6338407036/il_600x600.6338407036_pkaw.jpg



Live on LBC
Matt Wright says no need for it...............


I do not like Politics like that

[Mystic Mock]

I don't really see the issue with it tbh.

Was it necessary? No.

Am I going to lose sleep over it? Also no.

[arista]

get off your fence
Will You

[Vicky.]

...why? Seems random

[Kate!]

It's beautiful. If people would like to wear it that's up to them. Quite nice to have the option really.

[Jessica.]

:joker:

[arista]

It's beautiful. If people would like to wear it that's up to them. Quite nice to have the option really.


No keep their politics away from us.

[Crimson Dynamo]

ridiculous

[Ammi]

…to represent LGBQT veterans and those who gave their lives and those still serving in the forces, is it…?…

[Kate!]

No keep their politics away from us.

Where is the harm?

[arista]

…to represent LGBQT veterans and those who gave their lives and those still serving in the forces, is it…?…

Sure
but also Trouble Makers

[thesheriff443]

…to represent LGBQT veterans and those who gave their lives and those still serving in the forces, is it…?…

That’s the the question's
Does it go to the same people that people buy red poppies to support

Does that community buy red poppies

[Beso]

I would rather they didnt wear it. The red poppy remembers ALL fallen, not just the straight ones.

[Oliver_W]

Great idea. LGBT and other minorities should also be given our own drinking foundations, and allocated areas on public transport.

[arista]

I would rather they didnt wear it. The red poppy remembers ALL fallen, not just the straight ones.



Yes, it was Pointed Out on LBC

[thesheriff443]

Great idea. LGBT and other minorities should also be given our own drinking foundations, and allocated areas on public transport.

You can sit on the roof of the train like they do in India

[Oliver_W]

You can sit on the roof of the train like they do in India

Great idea. Everyone knows the best was to include people is to shine a spotlight on their differences.

[thesheriff443]

Great idea. Everyone knows the best was to include people is to shine a spotlight on their differences.

A lot of people don’t wear poppies in the first place
Will you buy and wear that poppy ??

[Oliver_W]

A lot of people don’t wear poppies in the first place
Will you buy and wear that poppy ??

NO.

I wear the standard issue Poppy, I don't want to exclude people from my Rememberance.

[Cherie]

Can we have a separate one for Women :hee:

[Vicky.]

Can we have a separate one for Women :hee:

Of course a pretty pink sparkly one!

[Ammi]

…I’m reading that the rainbow poppy cost is £8 and as with a red one, the funds go to support the Royal British Legion…so does it matter, really…it’s all funding the same thing and representing a support of …so it’s personal choice, surely…as to which poppy colour someone wears…

[arista]

…I’m reading that the rainbow poppy cost is £8 and as with a red one, the funds go to support the Royal British Legion…so does it matter, really…it’s all funding the same thing and representing a support of …so it’s personal choice, surely…as to which poppy colour…

Yes Cloured Metal

[arista]

Can we have a separate one for Women :hee:


No

LGBT only


Searched Female Poppy
got this

https://media.istockphoto.com/id/187567443/photo/beautiful-woman-in-poppy-field.jpg?s=612x612&w=0&k=20&c=C02svFQ-aq__MBGNmBRKso5CTAJ_boRGeOOMmAEsIpg=

[Crimson Dynamo]

Where is the harm?

it dilutes the significance

As far as poppies are concerned, we are all equal.

this creates needless division

[MTVN]

get off your fence
Will You

Mock clocked

[Kate!]

…I’m reading that the rainbow poppy cost is £8 and as with a red one, the funds go to support the Royal British Legion…so does it matter, really…it’s all funding the same thing and representing a support of …so it’s personal choice, surely…as to which poppy colour someone wears…

This in a nutshell. Very well put Ammi.

[joeysteele]

I've no objection to it whatsoever.
Less and less poppies are now being bought and worn over the last decade or so.

So anything that ignites new or continued awareness of support can only be a positive.

Myself I'll still purchase the red poppy but welcome anything old or new that will help this cause

[Livia]

We wear poppies to raise money for the British Legion, that helps ex-service personnel. The poppy is red because of the red poppies that sprung up after the carnage in Flanders following WW1. The red poppy stands for everyone, every colour, every sexual persuasion. It's for everyone affected by war. Why anyone would want to single out a particular group is beyond me. It shows that people have forgotten why we wear a poppy.

[Livia]

I've no objection to it whatsoever.
Less and less poppies are now being bought and worn over the last decade or so.

So anything that ignites new or continued awareness of support can only be a positive.

Myself I'll still purchase the red poppy but welcome anything old or new that will help this cause


My personal view is that, people should be taught at an early age that the freedoms we now enjoy were hard fought for and that people died in the pursuance of them. Singling out gay people who have been affected just marginalises them more. Are gay people not an integral part of society? Are they not as important? Why do they need to be treated as a separate part of society? Like Cherie said, why not one for women? And one for people with brown eyes? And a blue one maybe, for people who vote Tory.

[Lostie!]

I would rather they didnt wear it. The red poppy remembers ALL fallen, not just the straight ones.

I actually agree with this. Stuff like this just perpetuates the "us and them" mentality that we should be moving away from.

I'm gay, I wear a rainbow bracelet, I'm all for expression of LGBT pride, I just don't think this was needed. But as has been said, the proceeds are all going to the same place so there's that.

[joeysteele]

My personal view is that, people should be taught at an early age that the freedoms we now enjoy were hard fought for and that people died in the pursuance of them. Singling out gay people who have been affected just marginalises them more. Are gay people not an integral part of society? Are they not as important? Why do they need to be treated as a separate part of society? Like Cherie said, why not one for women? And one for people with brown eyes? And a blue one maybe, for people who vote Tory.

Well I'm not at all the only person on here who has said I don't object to this at all.
So why I've been responded to over others I find odd

I stated I'd personally STILL buy only the red poppy
I'm well aware what they stand for, two of my Brothers, not in wartime obviously, served in the RAF.

Quite honestly and unfortunately people in their thinking and attitude changes, I'd rather see more awareness made to the cause and more sold so more funds raised.
If this particular poppy or even other variations of the poppy were not wanted by some, then none or few will sell.

I can't however speak for the gay community, I'm not one of their number.
You'd need to ask someone who is.
However in my view all groupings and indeed individuals are part of society.

[Livia]

Well I'm not at all the only person on here who has said I don't object to this at all.
So why I've been responded to over others I find odd

I stated I'd personally STILL buy only the red poppy
I'm well aware what they stand for, two of my Brothers, not in wartime obviously, served in the RAF.

Quite honestly and unfortunately people in their thinking and attitude changes, I'd rather see more awareness made to the cause and more sold so more funds raised.
If this particular poppy or even other variations of the poppy were not wanted by some, then none or few will sell.

I can't however speak for the gay community, I'm not one of their number.
You'd need to ask someone who is.
However in my view all groupings and indeed individuals are part of society.

Because it's a discussion forum, I like you and I responded to your opinion with my own. Nothing more sinister than that. I'm surprised you think there might have been more to it. There wasn't.

[Livia]

I actually agree with this. Stuff like this just perpetuates the "us and them" mentality that we should be moving away from.

I'm gay, I wear a rainbow bracelet, I'm all for expression of LGBT pride, I just don't think this was needed. But as has been said, the proceeds are all going to the same place so there's that.

Great post...

Like you say, I'm all for being proud of who you are. But Remembrance is a bigger picture.

I didn't realise the proceeds were going to the British Legion, but it doesn't surprise me. In the last couple of years they've spent around £70k pa of money they raised by donation on recruiting a diversity officer.

[joeysteele]

Because it's a discussion forum, I like you and I responded to your opinion with my own. Nothing more sinister than that. I'm surprised you think there might have been more to it. There wasn't.

Well that's fine and thank you.

Plus I'm always happy to discuss any issues with yourself.
Because despite at times clashes happened.
On many issues I do respect your view and opinion.

We live and learn.
I was more just curious why I was responded to however it pleases me immensely to think you feel able to do so.
So my apologies for the first part of my reply to your response Livia.

[Livia]

Well that's fine and thank you.

Plus I'm always happy to discuss any issues with yourself.
Because despite at times clashes happened.
On many issues I do respect your view and opinion.

We live and learn.
I was more just curious why I was responded to however it pleases me immensely to think you feel able to do so.
So my apologies for the first part of my reply to your response Livia.


Yes, we've clashed. Water under the bridge as far as I'm concerned. No need to apologise.

[Antinous]

Rip to Hector Hugh Munro and all the other LGBT veterans who fought for this island. Homosexulity wasn't legalised until 1967 and the last gay man was sent to prison in 1994.

[Mystic Mock]

get off your fence
Will You

:laugh:

I'm leaning on not thinking it's that big of a deal tbh.

[Mystic Mock]

Mock clocked

On Halloween no less.:bawling:

[bots]

people can do what they want. If they want a new poppy, go for it, just so long as the money gets to the people it is supposed to, which is surely the only point that matters

[Ammi]

people can do what they want. If they want a new poppy, go for it, just so long as the money gets to the people it is supposed to, which is surely the only point that matters

…yeah, how I feel as well…I can’t imagine anyone who is helped with Royal British Legion funding/grant being anything other than thankful because it’s all very much needed and the selling of poppy pins etc, whatever their shade or colour….helps so much with that being able to give back to those who need it…

[Crimson Dynamo]

people can do what they want. If they want a new poppy, go for it, just so long as the money gets to the people it is supposed to, which is surely the only point that matters

Lets hope silly stunts like this do not deter people from giving full stop

[arista]

people can do what they want. If they want a new poppy, go for it, just so long as the money gets to the people it is supposed to, which is surely the only point that matters

Yes the Money
is going away from what it is
meant to go to.




LGBT charity

[Cherie]

I actually agree with this. Stuff like this just perpetuates the "us and them" mentality that we should be moving away from.

I'm gay, I wear a rainbow bracelet, I'm all for expression of LGBT pride, I just don't think this was needed. But as has been said, the proceeds are all going to the same place so there's that.

Great post and Livia explaining the meaning of the red poppy thank you

Playing devils advocate it is probably more of a money making scheme for the British Legion if sales have been falling

8.00 a pop for a bit of coloured metal is pretty steep

[Benjamin]

I’m in agreement, I don’t see a need for it when the red poppy is to remember everyone. But as mentioned, at least the proceeds are all going to the same place.

[Oliver_W]

Rip to Hector Hugh Munro and all the other LGBT veterans who fought for this island. Homosexulity wasn't legalised until 1967 and the last gay man was sent to prison in 1994.

So no gay men have committed crimes in thirty years? Or someone was arrested for being gay nearly thirty years after it was legalised?

[Nicky91]

no need for a LGBT poppy



a red poppy is good as it is, its for everyone who want to remember our fallen war heroes

[user104658]

I don't see the "need" for it but there's no "need" for a lot of things. People get themselves awfully wound up about some very unimportant things, don't they.

If you don't want one, don't buy one, buy the other one, or don't buy any of them, whatever.

[Livia]

Over 50,000 Jews fought for the UK in WW2. They don't need a separate poppy because they were a minority, they're included under the red poppy. As is every other minority group. There's a red ribbon to raise money and awareness for AIDS. Do we need a different colour according the the sufferers sexuality? No, we don't.

[Liam-]

Oh god who cares? If it gets more people donating to the cause at the heart of it, what’s the problem?

People are so annoying

[Crimson Dynamo]

Why not do a Taylor Swift one as that will get lots of donations and they could do a Free Palestine one for the kids

[OnTheRight]

And let's not forget that £67,000 of our donations pays for the new Head of Diversity & Inclusion!
No more donations from me to the RBL.
"Totaljobs Sponsored Find the job that's right for you! X Head of Diversity and Inclusion Royal British Legion Trading Ltd 目 South East London £64,122to£67,437 to 4127067457/pranminuv £67, per annum, inclusive of Lond... RBL ROYAL BRITISH ROYALBRITISHLECION LEGION Apply ApplyNow Now totaljobs.com Looking for something new? Apply now 10 comments"

[Livia]

Oh god who cares? If it gets more people donating to the cause at the heart of it, what’s the problem?

People are so annoying

Because it's unnecessary and deflects from the fact that lots of people from lots of backgrounds fought for thus country and still fight for this country, together. The fact that one group think they need their own, singular recognition and that idea is being pandered to by the Royal British Legion is insulting. And annoying.

[GoldHeart]

Over 50,000 Jews fought for the UK in WW2. They don't need a separate poppy because they were a minority, they're included under the red poppy. As is every other minority group. There's a red ribbon to raise money and awareness for AIDS. Do we need a different colour according the the sufferers sexuality? No, we don't.

Completely agree

I definitely think there's an element of marketing going on aswell though.

[bots]

So what are people going to do, stop giving to the charity because there is an lgbt version? If that is the case, there is a more fundamental problem

[Liam-]

A charity that needs donations to continue helping the people they cater to, create a way to earn more money to help those people, bloody gays spending their money to help a charity :fist:

[Livia]

A charity that needs donations to continue helping the people they cater to, create a way to earn more money to help those people, bloody gays spending their money to help a charity :fist:

Or... They alienate their regular donors by demonstrating one group is more special and needs its own, individual poppy.

[OnTheRight]

So what are people going to do, stop giving to the charity because there is an lgbt version? If that is the case, there is a more fundamental problem

I stopped giving when I found out £67,000 is going to a head of Diversity person.

[BBXX]

I think some people should remember it was only in 2000 the ban of homosexuals serving in the Army was lifted. Before that - just 24 years ago - it was illegal to be in the Army if you were gay.

What this means is that there were many, many gay people who gave their life for their country despite not being free to love who they wanted to. Many lived in secret and broke the law in order to fight for their country. Many were sent to prison.

This, to me, is a harmless and small way of acknowledging just how ****ed up that is and paying respects to the many gay men and women who fought for the British Army and still do.

Aside from the meaning behind it... does anyone else find it quite ugly?

[Oliver_W]

does anyone else find it quite ugly?

hm, that seems to be "a thing" with rainbow designs, they're really prone to uglifying.

Like the version of the Pride flag which has the additional coloured triangles is hideous, but the standard rainbow version is fine.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I stopped giving when I found out £67,000 is going to a head of Diversity person.

Yep. Bin it

[BBXX]

hm, that seems to be "a thing" with rainbow designs, they're really prone to uglifying.

Like the version of the Pride flag which has the additional coloured triangles is hideous, but the standard rainbow version is fine.

I agree - too many colours is always going to the reduce the aesthetic of something.

[Livia]

I think some people should remember it was only in 2000 the ban of homosexuals serving in the Army was lifted. Before that - just 24 years ago - it was illegal to be in the Army if you were gay.

What this means is that there were many, many gay people who gave their life for their country despite not being free to love who they wanted to. Many lived in secret and broke the law in order to fight for their country. Many were sent to prison.

This, to me, is a harmless and small way of acknowledging just how ****ed up that is and paying respects to the many gay men and women who fought for the British Army and still do.

Aside from the meaning behind it... does anyone else find it quite ugly?

Some people were killed outright and some suffered horrific wounds that were life changing. Some suffered mentally and continue to live a half life because what they saw and experienced changed their life irrevocably. Some leave the army and find it so hard to go back to ordinary life they end up on the streets. Being gay does not compound the suffering of those who've been in combat. There isn't a sliding scale of suffering according to your sexuality. The red poppy is for everyone who served regardless of age, ethnicity or sexual orientation. If gay organisations are concerned perhaps they can start their own organisation which caters only for one group.

[BBXX]

Some people were killed outright and some suffered horrific wounds that were life changing. Some suffered mentally and continue to live a half life because what they saw and experienced changed their life irrevocably. Some leave the army and find it so hard to go back to ordinary life they end up on the streets. Being gay does not compound the suffering of those who've been in combat. There isn't a sliding scale of suffering according to your sexuality. The red poppy is for everyone who served regardless of age, ethnicity or sexual orientation. If gay organisations are concerned perhaps they can start their own organisation which caters only for one group.

I know all that. My point was squarely concentrated on the fact it was illegal to be gay while in the Army and so many people hid that aspect of their lives in order to serve for the country, so there is a complexity to the situation that doesn't exist with any other demographic and this could simply to acknowledge that. I.E: yes, we banned you from joining us because we were discriminatory, and we appreciate your resilience in working for us despite our discrimination.

It's also worth noting this isn't the only variation of the poppy there is. There are purple poppies for animals killed in war and black poppies to commemorate Black British soldiers.

I personally don't see the big deal.

[Livia]

I know all that. My point was squarely concentrated on the fact it was illegal to be gay while in the Army and so many people hid that aspect of their lives in order to serve for the country, so there is a complexity to the situation that doesn't exist with any other demographic and this could simply to acknowledge that. I.E: yes, we banned you from joining us because we were discriminatory, and we appreciate your resilience in working for us despite our discrimination.

It's also worth noting this isn't the only variation of the poppy there is. There are purple poppies for animals killed in war and black poppies to commemorate Black British soldiers.

I personally don't see the big deal.

Neither the black nor the purple poppy has anything to do with the Royal British Legion. They are provided by separate organisations and, like I suggested previously, if an LGBT organisation wanted to launch their own exclusive poppy I would have no problem with that, so long as the procedes benefit ex-service personnel. The red poppy is for everyone, without excluding anyone. So I don't see why people would want the RBL to single them out and make them a special case. The first black man to join the Guards in the 1980s suffered horrendous racism. I never heard it suggested the British Legion give him a special poppy.

[BBXX]

Neither the black nor the purple poppy has anything to do with the Royal British Legion. They are provided by separate organisations and, like I suggested previously, if an LGBT organisation wanted to launch their own exclusive poppy I would have no problem with that, so long as the procedes benefit ex-service personnel. The red poppy is for everyone, without excluding anyone. So I don't see why people would want the RBL to single them out and make them a special case. The first black man to join the Guards in the 1980s suffered horrendous racism. I never heard it suggested the British Legion give him a special poppy.

While I don't see the LGBT poppy as a necessity, I can see why the RBL might want to offer a symbol of an apology of their previous discrimination as an organisation, that's all.

I don't see how creating a new, extra Poppy devalues the other one and therefore I personally don't see the issue either way. If it was replacing the standard poppy, well that's a different thing.

[Livia]

While I don't see the LGBT poppy as a necessity, I can see why the RBL might want to offer a symbol of an apology of their previous discrimination as an organisation, that's all.

I don't see how creating a new, extra Poppy devalues the other one and therefore I personally don't see the issue either way. If it was replacing the standard poppy, well that's a different thing.

A symbol of apology? To whom? Just LGBT people? How about women, who were excluded from many roles for years and had to leave immediately if they got pregnant? And black and other ethnic soldiers who were discriminated against by certain regiments? Singling out one group alienates those who put aside their differences to honour the all those who defend us.

Remembrance isn't about airing these grievances, it's about remembering those, of all backgrounds, religions, persuasions and other things that divide us, and acknowledging their sacrifice.

[BBXX]

A symbol of apology? To whom? Just LGBT people? How about women, who were excluded from many roles for years and had to leave immediately if they got pregnant? And black and other ethnic soldiers who were discriminated against by certain regiments? Singling out one group alienates those who put aside their differences to honour the all those who defend us.

Remembrance isn't about airing these grievances, it's about remembering those, of all backgrounds, religions, persuasions and other things that divide us, and acknowledging their sacrifice.

There has been over £7 million paid out to women who were automatically discharged upon getting pregnant, quite rightly so. I don't know about the discrimination other minorities were guilty of, and I don't know if there were legal persecutions against them but if there were, something should be put in place to repair that.

You make some good points and I do appreciate your opinion.

[Oliver_W]

I stopped giving when I found out £67,000 is going to a head of Diversity person.

Diversity is important - when you see the names and pictures of the fallen, it's ridiculous how over-represented white men are among them. This needs to be retroactively fixed :fist:

[Livia]

There has been over £7 million paid out to women who were automatically discharged upon getting pregnant, quite rightly so. I don't know about the discrimination other minorities were guilty of, and I don't know if there were legal persecutions against them but if there were, something should be put in place to repair that.

You make some good points and I do appreciate your opinion.

Yes, you too. Good to chat this out with you.